View Full Version : If I had only known...
Hey all!
I am putting together a brief intro to backpacking program for our local hiking club and need your input.
What is that one bit of info that you wish someone had told you before you got into backpacking?
I wish someone had told me to buy my gear first, then my pack (so that it would all fit, with not too much or too little space to spare.) I bought my pack first and it was gi-normous and I felt obligated to fill all that space with useless stuff that I really didnt need.
Jim Adams
08-27-2007, 18:42
How much more weight a canoe can carry instead of my back!LOL
Actually I probably would not have listened to this advice back then but I certainly learned over the years: Quality is worth the price!
geek
wrongway_08
08-27-2007, 18:56
Take the time to look around on the web at different products, or a lot of different stores.
I tend to buy items I see at REI, get home, like them, then see something that grabs my eye on the web.
My latest things have been the pack, bought the Skareb then saw the go-lite. Then I bought the MSR tent then saw the Tent tarp..... list goes on.
Only good thing that comes out of this is someone gets good deals on new gear when I sell the items I just bought :) .
FFTorched
08-27-2007, 20:31
It's more addicting than second hand smoke or crack! You will need it, and soon family, job, and rationale are out the window and next thing you know you have a giant beard and long hair and smell bad, and you can't why you prefer the sound of wind in the trees to the sound of cars, and phones ringing and other city sounds.
I wish I had did some hiking before so that i would not have looked like Jethro from the Beverly Hillbilly's.................
bigcranky
08-27-2007, 20:42
I wish I had known that trail runners were fine for backpacking. I have a pair of gigantic all-leather Italian super boots in the closet, gathering dust since April, 2000. Everyone I talked to said I needed big boots to hike, but all I ever got were big blisters and aching quads. Oh, and these were not my first big boots, no sir. Argh.
Anybody want a pair of Scarpa Mantas, size 45, broken in but not heavily used? <g>
YES! I just bought a pair of $90 trail runners, Solomon's, to use for hiking and backpacking..........I'm taking a backpacking class at school and guess what? My teacher is requiring we get boots b/c his friend fell off a 60foot cliff and broke is ankle. The paramedic that took him to the hospital said if he was wearing boots he would not have broken his ankle!! My guess is, if you fall off a 60ft cliff, it doesn't matter what your wearing...
Needless to say, I'm pissed.
Appalachian Tater
08-27-2007, 22:35
YES! I just bought a pair of $90 trail runners, Solomon's, to use for hiking and backpacking..........I'm taking a backpacking class at school and guess what? My teacher is requiring we get boots b/c his friend fell off a 60foot cliff and broke is ankle. The paramedic that took him to the hospital said if he was wearing boots he would not have broken his ankle!! My guess is, if you fall off a 60ft cliff, it doesn't matter what your wearing...
Needless to say, I'm pissed.
Well, your teacher is wrong. The correct conclusion to draw from an accident like that is that you should wear a helmet.
Jim Adams
08-27-2007, 22:43
Well, your teacher is wrong. The correct conclusion to draw from an accident like that is that you should wear a helmet.
...or hike with friends that have a better sense of balance!:D
geek
Take the time to look around on the web at different products, or a lot of different stores.
I tend to buy items I see at REI, get home, like them, then see something that grabs my eye on the web.
My latest things have been the pack, bought the Skareb then saw the go-lite. Then I bought the MSR tent then saw the Tent tarp..... list goes on.
Only good thing that comes out of this is someone gets good deals on new gear when I sell the items I just bought :) .
Don't forget about REI's return policy. Just don't abuse it.
Research first and save some headaches.
Chaco Taco
08-27-2007, 23:27
Take care of your feet. This means, taking off your shoes/boots and socks during lunch breaks.
Also, never get bottles, Nalgenes, other containers from shelters. Most of them are peoples PEE bottles they like to leave behind!!
Some of the things that cost loads at REI/GOP or other trail shops may be on campmor or Sierra trading post. Check there first, they have nice markdowns.
Weigh everything your carrying or thinking of carrying. My hiking mentor taught me that one. I was amazed at how much weight I saved after doing that. My trusty army canteen cup and metal spoon weight 10 oz or so, the plastic bowl and spoon weighed in at less than an oz. All those little ounces added up.
Like the old saying: You know you are a backpacker when you ask "What does it weight?" before asking "What does it cost?"
Grumpy Ol' Pops
08-28-2007, 07:45
[quote=Cuffs;398117]What is that one bit of info that you wish someone had told you before you got into backpacking?
quote]
Start off with day hikes that are not too strenuous or long and gradually begin to lengthen mileage and difficulty. Try to minimize the amount of weight you carry at first -- your back will thank you later!
In other words, get yourself into the physical shape you'll need to be to begin thru hiking.
Hammocks are much more comfortable than sleeping on the ground or in shelters.
FFTorched
08-28-2007, 08:29
You will only learn what really works for you by trial and error. If something doesn't work for you don't do it, change it up. Just because some old mountain man says he does it one way doesn't mean you have to do it the same. I ask questions, and I read books, and I try things and take what I like from each source and put it all together.
Blue Jay
08-28-2007, 08:44
I wish I had known that trail runners were fine for backpacking. I have a pair of gigantic all-leather Italian super boots in the closet, gathering dust since April, 2000. Everyone I talked to said I needed big boots to hike, but all I ever got were big blisters and aching quads.
I second this advice. Leather is obsolete, few wear leather shirts, pants and raccoon hats any more. The old, "it protects your ankles" is BS. You can break your ankle just as well in a leather boot. What holds up your ankle is your ankle. You'd have to wear a downhill ski boot to "protect your ankles". If you want blisters, go with leather. I wish I had known that.
What is that one bit of info that you wish someone had told you before you got into backpacking?
Once you have your gear (all or just one piece at a time) practice using it before you go out with it. Pack and unpack your gear outdoors, even in the wind or rain. Learn to set up your tent, hammock, or whatever in the back yard or wherever you have room to do it. Use your cooking gear outdoors to prepare and eat one or two meals a week. Sleep outdoors in your bag. Get to know all your gear before you get on any trail. The woods ain't no place to find out something doesn't work for you.
Overpass
08-28-2007, 09:56
I wish I had known that I didn't have to spend all that money on top-of-the-line (and yet, heavy) gear. 6-pound Gregory pack. Heavy full-leather boots. MSR whisperlite. etc. Now granted, 10 years ago when I started hiking, we didn't have Golite or some of the other ultralight packs. But I still could have chosen a smaller pack. Bought lightweight hikers instead of the heavy leather ones. Made a pepsi stove. Found fleece and even raingear at the thrift store.
Geez, I think of those first few trips, staggering under the weight of all that expensive crap. :eek:
Tell em, hit the thrift store FIRST, looking for clothing and also a cheap little lightweight pot. Then BORROW anything they can to try it out.
Thanks! this will be very helpful!
Keep the ideas coming!
Alligator
08-28-2007, 12:25
There are other options to tents, such as tarps, tarptents, and hammocks.
I'm a big fan of trail runners too, but if you can't bring yourself to buy a pair, at least get your boots fit by someone who knows what they are doing.
D'Artagnan
08-28-2007, 13:02
Not every meal HAS to involve cooking. Some of my favorites involve no fire whatsoever.
(I also second all those who mentioned gear weight, cost, etc. -- All sage advice.)
I wouldn't have carried a water filter at all.
wludavid
08-28-2007, 15:44
I wish someone had told me to buy my gear first, then my pack (so that it would all fit, with not too much or too little space to spare.) I bought my pack first and it was gi-normous and I felt obligated to fill all that space with useless stuff that I really didnt need.
You know, I've seen this advice elsewhere on this forum, and I gotta say I'm not buying it. A newbie will go out and buy what he thinks is the best stuff for his purposes, but we all know he'll be wrong about something. So he'll try something different and see how that goes, repeat ad infinitum. The new gear might not fit into the pack and he'll have to adjust his pack choice anyway. I don't think it really matters if you buy your pack first or last.
Well, your teacher is wrong. The correct conclusion to draw from an accident like that is that you should wear a helmet.
I think MTS should actually where a helmet on his first hike. When the instructor asks why he's wearing the helmet, he should point to his big leather boots and say, "Oh it's just like the boots. Safety first, no matter how silly it is. I might fall down a cliff you know!"
I second this advice. Leather is obsolete, few wear leather shirts, pants and raccoon hats any more. The old, "it protects your ankles" is BS. You can break your ankle just as well in a leather boot. What holds up your ankle is your ankle. You'd have to wear a downhill ski boot to "protect your ankles". If you want blisters, go with leather. I wish I had known that.
Leather is not obsolete. It's one of the most durable (if not THE most durable) textiles available, and properly treated it's also a naturally waterproof breathable material. No one outside the backpacking community uses down anymore either. Does that make down obsolete?
OK, I'll provide my own bit of advice instead of just critiquing. I wish someone had told me that while it's okay to buy gadgets, try to buy gadgets that will replace other gear. Don't just bring the whole gear closet on every trip!
Since this is my first post, I'll also say "Hi, everyone!"
D'Artagnan
08-28-2007, 16:33
I wouldn't have carried a water filter at all.
That Wolf's sure a powerful influence, ain't he? :D
You know, I've seen this advice elsewhere on this forum, and I gotta say I'm not buying it. A newbie will go out and buy what he thinks is the best stuff for his purposes, but we all know he'll be wrong about something. So he'll try something different and see how that goes, repeat ad infinitum. The new gear might not fit into the pack and he'll have to adjust his pack choice anyway. I don't think it really matters if you buy your pack first or last.
I think MTS should actually where a helmet on his first hike. When the instructor asks why he's wearing the helmet, he should point to his big leather boots and say, "Oh it's just like the boots. Safety first, no matter how silly it is. I might fall down a cliff you know!"
Leather is not obsolete. It's one of the most durable (if not THE most durable) textiles available, and properly treated it's also a naturally waterproof breathable material. No one outside the backpacking community uses down anymore either. Does that make down obsolete?
OK, I'll provide my own bit of advice instead of just critiquing. I wish someone had told me that while it's okay to buy gadgets, try to buy gadgets that will replace other gear. Don't just bring the whole gear closet on every trip!
Since this is my first post, I'll also say "Hi, everyone!"
While I appreciate your input, I also appreciate what others have said. Just add what you want instead of putting down others comments... They were not critiquing, as you so obviously did to them. And as for "sage advice"... well, it was just info, nothing special... but welcome anyways!
hopefulhiker
08-28-2007, 18:11
I would have started out with trail runners instead of boots..
Shutterbug
08-28-2007, 18:32
I second this advice. Leather is obsolete, few wear leather shirts, pants and raccoon hats any more. The old, "it protects your ankles" is BS. You can break your ankle just as well in a leather boot. What holds up your ankle is your ankle. You'd have to wear a downhill ski boot to "protect your ankles". If you want blisters, go with leather. I wish I had known that.
When you get my age, 64, you will look for comfort. For me, nothing is as comfortable for hiking as a leather boot. I have found nothing that supports my ankles as well as a leather boot.
Shutterbug
08-28-2007, 18:36
Hey all!
I am putting together a brief intro to backpacking program for our local hiking club and need your input.
What is that one bit of info that you wish someone had told you before you got into backpacking?
I wish someone had told me to buy my gear first, then my pack (so that it would all fit, with not too much or too little space to spare.) I bought my pack first and it was gi-normous and I felt obligated to fill all that space with useless stuff that I really didnt need.
When I first started backpacking, I carried backups for most essential equipment. Over the years, I have learned to save a lot of weight by emphasizing reliability rather than redundancy.
Do not know if this will help or not, but I organize a beginners backpacking trip ever year. It is for people new to Colorado and/or backpacking.
A nice, mellow trip to get them used to what overnighting entails.
I have the people new to backpacking read a primer.
It is not meant for thru-hiking, but for people exploring what an overnight trip could be like.
Curiosuly, it is almost exclusively women who come on this trip. I'd like to think it is my rugged good looks (ha!) or charming personality (bigger HA!), but I know better. ;)
Anyway, the primer could have some useful info for you.
Primer found at: http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33
While I appreciate your input, I also appreciate what others have said. Just add what you want instead of putting down others comments... They were not critiquing, as you so obviously did to them. And as for "sage advice"... well, it was just info, nothing special... but welcome anyways!
Hey Cuffs,
I re-read David's post. He offered a differing opinion, but I don't agree that he put anybody down. And because this was his first post, your retort may discourage him from posting again, so I am coming to his defense. :D
I have often read that newbies are advised to bring all their "stuff" to an outfitter, to determine what would be the perfect pack. Unfortunately, most newbies don't know what stuff they should be carrying, until they gain experience. As David points out, the process is an evolution. As one gains experience and confidence, the contents of one's pack changes. So what may be a perfect pack today, may not be after a few years of tweaking one's gear list.
To expect a newbie to know exactly what they should be carrying, and letting that gear determine what pack is best, is a bit unrealistic. I think this was David's point, and frankly, it's a valid one.
That Wolf's sure a powerful influence, ain't he? :D
Yes, I'll have to admit that he did have some bearing on my decision. But, I haven't regretted it. Although, sometimes I wish that I had Iodine tablets on hand when the water source is a stagnant puddle;)
brotheral
08-28-2007, 20:41
Remember the ABC's; Always Be Considerate !!
Two Speed
08-28-2007, 20:58
that I can think of are:
1. Keep a journal, write down what works, what doesn't, what you enjoyed and what just didn't cut the mustard.
2. If it looks stupid but it works it ain't stupid.*
*One of the best Sgt Rockisms of all time.
I can agree to some degree on the purchase of a pack (before or after gear) I was told to get *this* pack. Well, it was over 4500ci!! Sadly, as a newbie, I felt the need to fill it. I had (still have) so much useless crap is crazy! I would have liked to have all the "right" gear, then fit it to a pack that just carries that stuff, nothing else...
Do not know if this will help or not, but I organize a beginners backpacking trip ever year. It is for people new to Colorado and/or backpacking.
A nice, mellow trip to get them used to what overnighting entails.
I have the people new to backpacking read a primer.
It is not meant for thru-hiking, but for people exploring what an overnight trip could be like.
Curiosuly, it is almost exclusively women who come on this trip. I'd like to think it is my rugged good looks (ha!) or charming personality (bigger HA!), but I know better. ;)
Anyway, the primer could have some useful info for you.
Primer found at: http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33
Im amazed at how closely my program follows the program you linked to!!! At least I know Im on the right track. thanks bunches for that bit!
The Weasel
08-29-2007, 00:08
How easy it is.
Despite all the gearheads, it's all about walking. Anyone can do it. You get better by doing it, but you don't have to learn a backhand swing, or how to "address" a ball, or know what a "bunny slope" is. You get some gear, and you learn what works and what doesn't without a lot of harm being done. You get out of your car and you walk until you stop. And you get to have fun.
Yeah, you learn how to do everything better over time. But the one thing people don't know before they try it? That it's easy to do. Well, except for MUDS. Even then.
The Weasel
Bluehaus71
08-29-2007, 06:07
I have to say that, after rereading wludavid's post, I agree with him (and Roland) regarding buying a pack last. With all the great info on the backpacking forums, the best thing I think a newbie can do is check out several gear lists that are posted and find one that is in the lightweight category (UL and SUL backpacking takes some experience to be safe that newbies usually don't have.) Take that list and research some of the gear online and tinker with it in the store as much as possible. Then try on as many of the packs as you can that these folks are using, especially the more popular ones. I figure that since it's all pretty much been already done before for the most part when it comes to backpacking there's no need to reinvent the wheel.
As far as what I wish I had known when I first started backpacking it would be all the skills that I have picked up over the years that keep me from having to lug a lot of heavy and redundant gear. Experience and skillz = confidence and self-reliance in the backcountry for me.
Tipi Walter
08-29-2007, 07:37
What would I have done differently? I would have headed out to Montana and Idaho and Canada to live a true backpacker's life close to real wilderness. I would have worked harder to earn minimal money while attempting to live permanently on wilderness trails, staying mobile and soaking up Nature's beauty. All this can be done in the eastern US too but why stop there?
The essence of backpacking is not about gear or being a gearhead, it's about Heart and the philosophical conviction and willingness to forsake our current nature-destroying way of life and to embrace the old way where humans lived intimately with nature. I call the desire to do this having a Heart for backpacking. With such a heart the lack of gear or most anything else will not stop a person from staying outdoors.
It sounds silly, but I wish I knew to hike uphill with my heels striking the ground first instead of the balls of my feet. Saves the calves, the oxygen and the spirit. It may seem like you are going slower, but you get up the mt. nearly as quick with much less exertion.
Pennsylvania Rose
08-29-2007, 08:04
It's not about how many miles you put in, or keeping up with someone else's pace. Backpacking is about ENJOYING yourself and your surroundings. So, don't push yourself too hard.
Also, not every day is perfect. Learn to go with the flow and find something positive in every situation.
brotheral
08-29-2007, 09:16
When I went to the Backpacker's Shop in Sheffield, OH (west of Cleveland)to purchase my 1st pack etc. the very knowledgeable salesman insisted that I read this text; Trailside Guide: Hiking & Backpacking by Karen Berger. It's an excellent source of basic information on the subject. Simple and easy to follow.... I believe a new edition is out. I highly recommend it !!
I carried it with me on early adventures.....
taildragger
08-29-2007, 10:19
I'll 4th or whatever it is on now to look a the gear lists first, then buy a pack.
I bought my pack with a semi-knowledge of what I was going to be doing. I gotta freaking monster of a pack because I sometimes have to be the beast of burden, and I love camping in the winter (no tourons in the cold). For those reasons I bought a Gregory Whitney, I figure with winter gear I've still got more than enough room for extended trips without resupply. That being said I've filled it once, and its way too big, but at the same time it was priced right (70% off), carries well, and is durable enough for my style.
Another thought, get your stuff locally. I would have had no idea what to look for in a new pack if it weren't for the outfitter here. They put me onto Gregory based on what I do (bushwacking and scrambling are my favs), I pushed slightly away from Osprey because they thought I might destroy part of the frame on a trip (and from the way that I sometimes move, I'd agree)
Lastly, listen to older backpackers with a lot of experience, and not the guys that right in the magazines. If I believed everything that magazines wrote I would have replaced all my old gear that I was lead to believe was crap with newer items that work just as well. I'd also be using a pocket rocket instead of my odd version of the supercat booze stove.
Post lasly, take em on short hikes and make it a real fun old school style camping trip. Maybe 8 miles in a day with some vistas (if possible) and maybe a little campfire and some smores at the end (fire ban permitting), you know, the kinda stuff that probably got most of us hooked on the trail.
I'll 4th or whatever it is on now to look a the gear lists first, then buy a pack.
I'll politely disagree.
Most people new to backpacking do not know what gear to really buy. When they go into REI, EMS of whatever, they often get talked into buying a much bigger back than what they need. A gear list is great, but it doesn't really tell a person what will work for them.
I think it is better to get the gear you will be using first then buy the pack to fit around it.
Just what I've seen after leading beginner trips, doing "gear make overs", etc.
As always, just my opinion. Others may vary.
Im amazed at how closely my program follows the program you linked to!!! At least I know Im on the right track. thanks bunches for that bit!
Heh...program may be too grandiose of a title for what I do. :)
If you have any questions, or if you want to use the doc (modified for your needs), please feel free!
I found the doc helps people to new to backpacking and puts everything very simply.
This is going great! I have covered most of what you all are saying in my presentation already!
On the "you learn something new everyday" Thank you Yahtzee!!! I did NOT know about heel first on climbs. That will be in my head from now on.
The workshop has been broken down into several days. First day is classroom only. Just going over the gear list of the "must have" gear (pack, bag, shelter, 1st aid...) the second class (a month later) will be a car camp at a state park for those who want to try out any gear they have or have bought recently, no hiking involved. The third is an overnight hike in state forest about 3 miles in, a month after the car camp.
I am trying to keep it simple and short so that no one gets overwhelmed and feels they cant do it and gives up on backpacking. My first "real" hike was 9 miles carrying 38#'s!!! Thankfully I had more determination so I didnt quit, but man, I was close a couple times!!
What else?
I'll politely disagree.
Most people new to backpacking do not know what gear to really buy. When they go into REI, EMS of whatever, they often get talked into buying a much bigger back than what they need. A gear list is great, but it doesn't really tell a person what will work for them.
I think it is better to get the gear you will be using first than by the pack to fit around it.
Just what I've seen after leading beginner trips, doing "gear make overs", etc.
As always, just my opinion. Others may vary.
I saw this very thing happen to another poor soul in REI one day. "Im going to backpack in Europe for a few months after college, before entering the work world..." the sales-kids eyes lit up!! He grabbed the biggest pack they had on the wall, strapped it on the guy, moved on to bags, stuffed one in, then to the tent dept, grabbed a 5 pounder, moved to clothes... he had a change for everyday in the pack! I quit watching at that point, I thought I might get sick if it continued!
T The third is an overnight hike in state forest about 3 miles in, a month after the car camp.
I find getting together the night before the trip really helps. Make some last minute adjustments, look over the gear, etc.
Your car camp trip may do that, though. Still, for those who can't make the car camp trip a night-before shakedown may be nice. Just something to keep in mind.
I am trying to keep it simple and short so that no one gets overwhelmed and feels they cant do it and gives up on backpacking.
Yep. That's my philosophy. Make the trip enjoyable so they continue to love this crazy little passion of ours.
I am proud to say one of the people who went on one of my beginners trips is now organizing trips of her own and is also thinking of doing the JMT next year. I can't think of a better compliment than that. :)
You just may ruin people as well. ;)
I quit watching at that point, I thought I might get sick if it continued!
Heh..in fairness to the REI/EMS folks, I don't think they go "HEY! LET ME SELL THE $$$ ITEM"..I honestly believe that is how they were taught. Good old American values: Bigger is better and lasts longer. :) (See SUVs!)
We know better. Bigger often means more weight. Something good for Denali is overkill for hiking the AT much less tramping around Europe. I try to show my "students" the happy medium. Going ultralite is not good for most beginners. But neither is the 6000 CI Denali special. :O
taildragger
08-29-2007, 11:13
Most people new to backpacking do not know what gear to really buy. When they go into REI, EMS of whatever, they often get talked into buying a much bigger back than what they need. A gear list is great, but it doesn't really tell a person what will work for them.
Maybe I just had good luck when I went to buy. The outfitters that I talked to were usually avid mountaineers or thru-hikers. If they are someone who is a weekend warrior, then I wouldn't take their advice to heart.
I think that both times that I went to buy a pack, I was recommended something near 4000CI for an internal, based off the fact that I do camp with a tent at times, and I used a trangia stove kit for the longest time. That would allow me enough room for 5+day expeditions year round (unless it got REAL cold). I know that smaller sizes would do, but at the same time it gave me leeway, just in case.
Although, I have had an REI employee try to get me to buy way too much (i.e. a 5500CI pack for 5 day installments). I guess what I should have said is that its best for the Newb to find someone who hikes the way they want to, have him go out with said Newb and help get gear.
Maybe I just had good luck when I went to buy.
I would say yes. Very few people in retail are that experienced.
I I guess what I should have said is that its best for the Newb to find someone who hikes the way they want to, have him go out with said Newb and help get gear.
That's the ideal. Alas, not always available. I did that for a buddy of mine.
Ulitmately, experience is the best teacher. Tuition is a bit steep at times, though. :)
My first pack-buying experience was with a family member. He's a outdoors kind of guy and knew the brands... His info was good (its a great pack that will last forever!) but for me, it was too heavy and too much capacity. My second venture into the realm of gear and packs was at Mtn Crossings/Neels Gap. What a difference experience makes!!!! As a sidebar, kudos to those folks! They knew I was coming over from AL to buy a pack. They went thru my gear, downsized several things, and NEVER tried to sell me a new pack. They did show my how to get by with what I had and later, spend the $$ on a new pack when I really needed one.
Re: REI salespeople
The young woman who gave a backpacking for women presentation at our local Charlotte store brought out the stuff that she carries herself when she hikes. It was far from light. I think she's more into the camping and gear part of backpacking than into the "hike more miles in a day" part of it. She carries a big ole backpacking towel, for example, which I don't. The pack I carry for my winter gear is a size she considers to be at most a weekend pack.
She backpacks a lot and I respect her abilities. Would I take her gear advice? In some things but not in most.
My point is that there are many possible goals for backpacking, and many ways of achieving them. The problem with throwing yourself on the mercy of a random salesperson (or friend, or a single "expert") is that you'll end up kitted up to achieve their goals--which may be very different from yours.
A newbie probably doesn't even realize there are so many possibilities, and probably doesn't know what he/she wants because they haven't tried (and rejected) any of the options.
My usual advice to newbies who have not bought any gear yet is to outfit themselves according to one of the Challenge lists, where people are challenged to come up with a gear list on a low budget. That way the newbie will end up with (probably) a very nice sleeping bag and a lot of other stuff that he/she can replace at a later date when they have more experience and know more about what they want.
Marta/Five-Leaf
Thats great Marta, thank you!
This workshop will be just a "101" type course. I will not be preaching any brand or specific type of gear, nor light weight. I will just be listing / telling them what they will need... pack, bag, shelter, water treatment... and giving them all their options (ie: for water treatment, there is chemicals, filters, UV, chlorine, or no treatment...) they can make their own decision on what works for them.
For shelter, I will have on display a tent, hammock, tarp AND a bivy... again, the choices are presented, but the decision is theirs...
Does that sound feasible/ like a good plan?
that you'll end up kitted up to achieve their goals--which may be very different from yours.
Maybe.
But a knowlegable person who also listens will tailor the gear for YOUR goals.
When I took my friend for a "gear makeover", I was not trying to outfit him as the Israeli version of me. :) I knew what his MPD goals were, that he liked to do a fair amount of "real" cooking and often hiked with his girlfriend (now wife).
I steered him towards gear that would fit his backpacking needs and not mine.
In the same way, a great retail person will do something similar. Like Mountain Crossings for example. A buddy of mine works at REI and I can honestly say he sells people gear for what they need and not what he needs.
Like anything else, it is luck of the draw.
My usual advice to newbies who have not bought any gear yet is to outfit themselves according to one of the Challenge lists
Great idea! At least if they don't like the gear, their budget is not blown and they can "upgrade".
One of the beautiful things about backpacking (as opposed to other outdoor activities) is that the gear requirements are pretty cheap over all.
But a knowlegable person who also listens will tailor the gear for YOUR goals.
I steered him towards gear that would fit his backpacking needs and not mine.
Yeah, but you're way smarter than the av-er-age bear. ;) There are many gear stores and many gear salespeople, but only a few great ones. Most people (salespeople being first and foremost just people) aren't that analytical--they like what they like and assume everyone else should like it, too.
Funny story...When I was on the JMT recently I ran into a pair of guys who had been friends since childhood. One of them has done loads of hiking (AT, PCT) and the other had done none. Newbie had decided to take the plunge and informed Old Buddy that he was going to put down $2500 for a two-week How to Backpack workshop. Old Buddy said that was nuts. With $2500 he, Old Buddy, would take Newbie backpacking. They could buy new gear for both of them, plus pay for food and transportation to do the whole JMT. Which is what they were doing when I met them at VVR. A few days later, I met up with another hiker who had camped with them and said that, around the end of the first week, Newbie was starting to question the dictates of Old Buddy.
Marta/Five-Leaf
$2500 for a workshop!?!?!? Dannnngggg!! The one Im hosting is free!! Hmmm, need to rethink this!
Blue Jay
08-29-2007, 13:17
Leather is not obsolete. It's one of the most durable (if not THE most durable) textiles available, and properly treated it's also a naturally waterproof breathable material.
You are correct, I should have said obsolete for hiking puposes. For example nothing, and I mean nothing, beats leather for motorcycle riding. When blind car drivers smash into you, nothing keeps your skin on like leather.
$2500 for a workshop!?!?!? Dannnngggg!! The one Im hosting is free!! Hmmm, need to rethink this!
When I did my workshop, a friend who interns for the Women's Wilderness Institute told me how much they charge for a beginners trip. I'm in the wrong field. :D
re: Way smarter
Naah..I'm a family from smart asses. Smarter is highly debateable. ;)
One of them has done loads of hiking (AT, PCT) and the other had done none.
Sigh. Sometimes people who have a large knowledge base aren't neccessarily the best to teach. Teaching is a skill set that some people have and some don't. That old saw about "those who can't, teach" is not always true.
Some times it is "Those who can do often can't teach". :)
In my current field (IT), there are a many people who frankly know more than I do overall. However many of them can't convey the information clearly and/or come off sounding a bit condescending.
Backpacking is no different. As we've seen on this cozy little place at times. ;)
CoyoteWhips
08-29-2007, 13:42
I saw this very thing happen to another poor soul in REI one day. "Im going to backpack in Europe for a few months after college, before entering the work world..." the sales-kids eyes lit up!!
The joy of being poor is that it makes you study up a little before you buy.
The advantage of being rich is that you don't have to.
Jack Tarlin
08-29-2007, 13:44
I wrote something called "What I'd Do Differently" which used to be in the "Articles" section of this website; I'm not sure it's still there. If anyone saved it, maybe they could send it along to this thread; I seem to recall it had some interesting things in it.
I wrote something called "What I'd Do Differently" which used to be in the "Articles" section of this website; I'm not sure it's still there. If anyone saved it, maybe they could send it along to this thread; I seem to recall it had some interesting things in it.
::::::slinks off to navigate the Articles section!:::::: thanks jack!
Skidsteer
08-29-2007, 13:53
I wrote something called "What I'd Do Differently" which used to be in the "Articles" section of this website; I'm not sure it's still there. If anyone saved it, maybe they could send it along to this thread; I seem to recall it had some interesting things in it.
Is this it Jack?
Next Time.....
By Jack Tarlin 11 Aug 2004
I'm not planning to thru-hike again, at least not for awhile. But if I were to do so, there are any number of things I'd do differently. In no particular order.....
* As others have suggested, I'd try to go slower. I'd adjust my planning
so I'd leave earlier, hike later in the season, and I'd try and take fewer
town days. I'd encourage my "town" friends to spend time with me on
the Trail, rather than spend so much of my time in town, hostels,
motels, etc.
* I'd make more of an effort to start my days earlier, which gives you the
option of taking extra breaks, exploring side trails and points of interest,
and stopping for the day earlier so you can enjoy your campsite, instead
of pulling in at the end of the day exhausted, in which case all you do is
set up camp, eat, and fall asleep. If you make an effort to start early,
you effectively own the day and have all sorts of options as to how you
spend it.
* I'd buy a food dehydrator and spend lots of time learning how to get the
most out of it. With time and effort, a dehydrator will save you pack
weight and will greatly improve your diet.
* I'd try and avoid basing parts of my trip on other folks and their
schedules. It's inevitable that on a long hike, you're going to get ahead
of some folks you really like, and you'll fall behind others. Some times,
you'll meet up with them again , some times you won't. But you can't
base your trip around what other folks are doing.
* I'd keep off-trail committments to a barebones minimum. There are way
too many times I hiked further or faster than I wanted because I
absolutely HAD to be at a certain place at a certain time to meet
up with friends, attend an event, hit a hiker feed or party, etc.
One should only do big miles when one WANTS to, and not because
you HAVE to.
* I wish I'd been better about exchanging addresses (E-Mails and perm-
anent mail addresses) with Trail friends and hiking partners, especially
as the trips drew to a close. There are a great many folks I'd love to
hear from, swap photos with, etc., and I neither have their real names,
their contact info, or any other data.
* I wish I'd taken more photos of people, especially trail friends.
*I wish I'd kept better photo logs, so I would definitely know where and
when a particular picture was taken.
*I wish I'd been better about getting addresses of folks I met in towns,
especially folks who helped me out, gave me rides, asked about the
Trail, etc. I wish that every time I told someone that I'd let them know
how I was getting along that I actually would do so; likewise, I wish I'd
been better about sending completion photos and thank-yous to the
folks who'd been such a big part of my travels.
*I wish I'd kept a better journal, especially as regards the people I was
with on any given day, or where I was camping, or where the cool
campsites were. This information would be very useful in later years if
I wanted to return to favorite areas or hike certain sections. I also
wish I'd made more journal entries DURING the day, instead of at day's
end, when all I wanted to do was eat and go to sleep.
*I wish I'd paid more attention to deteriorations in my gear and in my
health. On the Trail, little things tend to turn into big ones if you
neglect them. I'd have fewer aches and pains now if I'd paid more
attention to myself earlier. And maybe I should have realized that a
healthy breakfast is not coffee, two Camels, four Ibuprofen, and a
shot of bourbon. Dinner maybe, but not breakfast.
*Along those lines, well, yeah, I wish I'd carried a smaller pack!
*I wish I'd taken more side trips and side trails, to views, waterfalls, etc.
One gets so caught up in one's "schedule" or one is so afraid of falling
behind schedule or behind one's friends, that all too often, people refuse
to go even .3 or .4 off the Trail to check something out, and often, this
"side trail" or blue blaze stuff is just as, or even more pretty that what's
on the actual Trail.
*I wish my entries in Trail registers were fewer, shorter, better, and,
at times, kinder.
*I wish I'd been less judgmental of other folks, and didn't hold them
to standards that were either unrealistic or more likely, unimportant.
I wish I hadn't let inconsequential, petty things get me down. I wish I'd
remembered that out there, you can't sweat the small stuff, and in any
case, it's ALL small stuff.
*I wish I'd done more Trail maintenance or other volunteer work while
en route.
*I wish I'd brought along some nature guides, especially as regards plants,
trees, and wildflowers. There are still things I've seen twenty times but
don't know for sure what they are. Likewise, I wish I'd brought along an
astronomy guide so I could identify more stuff on clear starry nights.
*I REALLY wish I'd taken more zero days in the middle of nowhere, even if
it meant taking longer to do a particular stretch or carrying extra food.
There are so many places I either breezed right thru or spent only a
short time at, instead of stopping for long enough to enjoy them.
*Along those lines, I wish I had the discipline to COMPLETELY throw out
my daily schedules more often; I wish that at more of the places where
I said "It's only 11, it's too early to stop" that I'd either stopped for
awhile, or even stopped for the day. Remember, most folks only do the
Trail ONCE....most of the places you see, you'll never see again. Stop
and enjoy them. When the trip is over, there are a great many folks
who regret that they travelled too quickly, and wish they'd spent more
time on breaks, enjoying a view or a beautiful campsite or whatever.
I've met very few who've felt that they should have gone faster, or
wish that they'd finished sooner.
*I'd have talked less, and listened more, and I wish I'd given less un-
asked for advice or commentary. People have to find stuff out for
themselves, and I wish I'd have let them done so. The good Lord gave
us two ears but only one mouth.....there's a definite object lesson there.
*Oh, and I wish I'd gone swimming more often.
Jack Tarlin
08-29-2007, 13:55
That's it! Thanks Skidster!
Skidsteer
08-29-2007, 13:57
De nada!
...
brotheral
08-29-2007, 14:17
That's great !! Really enjoyed reading it...........
Thanks Jack. It was a good read and I really appreciate the spirit in which it was written. Hope to do a thru-hike some day. If I do, I will pay particularly heed to all your advice, perhaps especially the bits that don't make so much sense to me now. I hope you don't mind but I've summarized and grouped your advice for my own purposes:
* go slower, leave earlier, hike later, take fewer town days
* start each day early... own the day
* take more side trips and side trails, to views, waterfalls, etc.
* avoid basing parts of the trip on other folks and their
schedules
* keep off-trail committments to a barebones minimum
* exchange addresses with trail friends and hiking partners
* get addresses of folks I met in towns that help me out
* take more photos of people, especially trail friends
* keep a better photo log of where and when each picture was taken
* keep a better journal, people, campsites, but don't leave it 'til bedtime.
* Pay more attention to deterioration in my gear and in my health.
* Along those lines, carry a smaller pack.
* Keep trail register entries fewer, shorter, better, and kinder.
* Be less judgmental of other folks. It's ALL small stuff.
* Do more trail maintenance and volunteer work while en route.
* Bring along some nature guides, plants, trees, and wildflowers.
* Bring along an astronomy guide to learn on clear starry nights.
* Take more zero days in the middle of nowhere. Swim more often.
* Remember, most folks only do the Trail ONCE. Stop often and enjoy it.
* Talk less, listened more, withold unneccessary advice or commentary.
Heck, I don't need to start my thru-hike to take much of this advice to heart.
Thanks again, but I do have a technical question for you, regarding the food dehydrator. I've never used one, but I've gotten into soups recently so I'm curious. I'm mostly curious because of the way ot was thrown in with all the other pearls of wisdom. It was like reading Confucius telling you to eat more vegetables.
* I'd buy a food dehydrator and spend lots of time learning how to get the
most out of it. With time and effort, a dehydrator will save you pack
weight and will greatly improve your diet.
Do what exactly do you have in mind here in terms of resupply? Is this something we can take with us, or are you suggesting we use a dehydrator ahead of time and mail it all ahead to various resupply points? I was leaning towards more fresh vegetables myself, despite the added weight, but maybe sun drying them also if that is possible. I would like to avoid mailing anything ahead if that is possible.
Jack Tarlin
08-29-2007, 19:13
JAK--
I think your post summarising my essay is very good, and certainly quicker to read!
Funny thing, while I champion the use of food dehydrators, I've never owned or used one much. Mainly, I'm too lazy in the of-season, and simply haven't spent enough time playing with, or experimenting with recipes. I wish I had. It's a really good way to make lightweight, nutritious, good tasting food, and an EXCELLENT way to addd variety to one's meals on a thru-hike; the boredom of the food out there (i.e an endless parade of Liptons, Ramens, etc.) is a very frequent and very legitimate complaint.
A food dehydrator is a good-sized cumbersome item. So I'm talking about getting one ahead of time, and probably a vacuum sealer. There are all sorts of cookbooks and/or websites devoted to food dehydrating, and the possibilities are endless: Fruit and vegetables, of course, never mind meats, sauces, gravies, jerkies, you name it. There isn't much that can't be dehydrated, tho I recently tried some tuna fish that essentially looked and tasted like petrified radioactive cat food. As Steven King put it, not everything comes back the way you remembered it. But with a bit of effort, it REALLY can improve one's diet. I know that my friend Blister Sister once spent a good part of the winter experimenting with different things with her dehydrator, and as a result, she ate a helluva lot better the following summer than I did. If I do a long hike ever again, learning how to use and benefit from a dehydrator will definitely be a priority.
Lone Wolf
08-29-2007, 19:35
What is that one bit of info that you wish someone had told you before you got into backpacking?
nothing really
Jack,
You just did me another huge favour. Thanks.
Something you said made me browse for something else and find this:
http://mikeshea.net/Everything_You_Need_to_Kn.html
Most inspiring. Must finish thesis draft. Might still make deadline.
Maybe Thru-hike also. Someday. Cheers.
Landshark
08-30-2007, 17:45
As a relative "newbie" my advice would be:
-When starting out don't be afraid to ask other hikers you meet questions about gear, their gear, what they'd recommend, etc. Even on dayhikes in the past, I've run into thruhikers or long distance hikers and asked them about their pack, hammock, type of stove, whatever catches my eye (as long as they don't look totally exhausted). Most are more than happy to explain things to you and give recommendations.
-Try a few overnights on trails you've already hiked in the daytime. The familiarity makes you more comfortable especially if you are a big chicken like me!
-I don't know the nature of your "intro to backpacking" course, but you could tell your students to look into their local hiking clubs, many have beginner outings.
-My favorite trail item: a trial-size container of gold bond! :)
I've enjoyed backpacking for well over 30 years, yet everytime I log onto WB, I learn something new. Probably the best lesson I have learned here, and it transfers over to all aspects of life/work is to ask the simple question why; why do we need to carry "x" or why do I need to use this type of stove or pack or water treatment, etc. For example, if an instructor says you must wear leather hiking boots, ask him/her why. Don't settle for some lame answer, ask again and wait for a good response. If you do not receive an answer that satisfies you, then stick with what YOU are comfortable with, not what someone else, who cannot articulate their basis, is comfortable with. Another example, everyone here knows Lone Wolf doesn't believe in treating water (or using hiking poles or staying in shelters). That is okay for LW. I have questioned this philosophy/idea for myself and also read hundreds of posts here, as well as many "informed" books on the subject. I have come to new conclusions about drinking water "safety," (e.g. I no longer use/carry a filter) So, I want to thank with all sincerity LW, Rock, Jack, and so many others for causing me to open my eyes to new ideas and to question why it is we do certain things. Because of this new approach, I have shaved a ton of weight off my pack, changed how I now cook meals, what I wear on my feet (which are much happier today then 30+ years ago when I wore those heavy, clunky leather Vasque Hiker II's @ how many lbs. each?), or what my mess kit consists of or what I sleep in or on.
On another note regarding outfitters, remember that they are in the business of selling equipment. If they don't sell equipment, then they can't pay the electric bill, their employees, rent, etc. Also, they carry mainly the larger known equipment manufacturers lines; they don't carry a lot of the small cottage industry lines that may be better for you, e.g. cheaper, lighter, more versatile, better fit, etc. I often think of that line in A Walk in the Woods in which Bryson, while at an outfitter in Hanover, said he refused to buy the blaze orange poop shovel and a bunch of other crap because he didn't want to be known as "Mr. Buttercup."
So, the one thing I wish I knew when I first started out was the idea that a pound on the foot equals 5 pounds on the back (and knees and hips). As I get older, that philosophy coupled with my various acquired outdoor skills have allowed me to (1) carry far less weight and (2) enjoy the "hiking" aspect of backpacking so much more without diminishing the "camping" aspect at all.
Guess this is a pretty old thread, but I'll post anyway.
To not be afraid to go out with nothing...then figure out what I need while I'm there...
I guess I'm still a "newbie" since I've only done a handful of extended weekend trips last year, and have yet to step foot on the AT or do anything remotely close to a thru-hike..BUT, being on a budget and having friends around who are experienced backpackers, using my military experience and having the knowledge of my own hiking abilities, I've pieced together some gear that will get me thru until I figure out what will work best for me. I mean, I don't want to skip out on the overnights, and just tag along for day trips to "try on other people's packs" until I find the one that I might like the best. So, I carry a Eureka $30 pack that someone gave me...the $10 wal-mart special hiking poles, and a cheap 40 degree bag (that could be alot lighter I know!). It'll get me through a weekend to get me started on this new crazy adventure of Backpacking!! (What I do know, is that the Alice Pack system is not for me anymore!)
Thanks to all for your insights, even if I am reading them 6 months later! Great stuff!
dessertrat
02-11-2008, 23:56
YES! I just bought a pair of $90 trail runners, Solomon's, to use for hiking and backpacking..........I'm taking a backpacking class at school and guess what? My teacher is requiring we get boots b/c his friend fell off a 60foot cliff and broke is ankle. The paramedic that took him to the hospital said if he was wearing boots he would not have broken his ankle!! My guess is, if you fall off a 60ft cliff, it doesn't matter what your wearing...
Needless to say, I'm pissed.
If he fell off a 60 foot cliff and broke his ankle, I want to wear EXACTLY what he was wearing. And he should be teaching the class.
Thanks for that article Jack, I am glad I got to read that before leaving this March
warraghiyagey
02-12-2008, 00:00
I was worried about getting through the Whites. Not so much the elevations. But where to stay. It works itself out as you move through.:)
... I would have worked harder to earn minimal money while attempting to live permanently on wilderness trails, staying mobile and soaking up Nature's beauty. ...
Beauty. Yup, that's it. But some of us have business to transact in the mindless big city, so we get stuck there. Or we have a mate who is stuck there. So it gets hard to leave. But that's it, Tipi, you've hit the nail on the head. Last trip out, before I bust my tendon, I wanted to just keep going, but I had to go home and mend fences, because someone depended on me. If I live long enough, I want to end up in a little hut in the forest where no clearcut loggers have been for a while, and just live the rest of my life. Won't be long either way. Life is short, people. Find out what is real.
whitelightning
02-12-2008, 00:19
I was worried about getting through the Whites. Not so much the elevations. But where to stay. It works itself out as you move through.:)
That's good to hear. As I've been planning my thruhike for this year, the Whites have been a concern for me as well (for the same reason).
What I know now that I didn't know when I started backpacking?
FEEL: What your body is saying to you.
LISTEN: To the advice of others who are more experienced.
HEAR: What Mother Nature has to offer.
SEE: What changes about yourself.
Of only I had known: how addictive hiking can be.
-when going downhill, step on the balls of your feet, not your heels.
-you pay 100$ for the TNF (Thats Not Funny) logo
-sometimes paying more will pay off in the long run
and to go along with purchasing packs, try on every pack available, you never know which pack will fit you and which ones wont. theres nothing more horrible than hiking with a pack that doesnt fit.
if your looking at buying a lot of gear, READ reviews, look at your options, and keep in mind that certain things will work for you that won't work for others
Of only I had known: how addictive hiking can be.
Aint that the truth!?!? And how therapeutic it is too!
envirodiver
02-12-2008, 00:43
Well, your teacher is wrong. The correct conclusion to draw from an accident like that is that you should wear a helmet.
I disagree. It's obvious that the conclusion should be...do not fall off of cliffs.
envirodiver
02-12-2008, 01:10
Several things:
Tell your students to spend time weeks before a trip going over maps, trailguides, etc. and become familiar with the area they are going into, escape routes, elevations, etc. Planning a trip is half the fun.
Have them load their pack and take everything out, dump part of it, look at the amount of food, do they really need that much, they probably have too much clothing. I think most people overload the food. I still catch myself doing this sometimes.
When they return home look at everything that they took and ask if they needed it. If you take something for several trips and don't use it (with the exception of some emergency gear), don't take it anymore.Regarding the selling of gear to people: Good sales people will act as consultants and ask a bunch of questions, determine what the customer wants, then recommend equipment that suits what people want, explaining the various options. I usually recommend lighter, smaller, high quality gear. But, folks don't always want that.
An example, is someone new that is getting into backpacking and taking his girlfriend for their first trip. A tarp is probably not the best shelter. They likely want a bit larger tent, with a floor (so no creepy crawlies can get in. They will likely want a few more luxury items, to make the trip enjoyable. Just remind them that everything they take is carried on their back. They may want to do shorter miles and spend more time in camp, eat like kings, sleep in luxury. I have to remind myself sometimes that not everyone is willing to make sacrifices to have a lighter pack.
I second this advice. Leather is obsolete, few wear leather shirts, pants and raccoon hats any more. The old, "it protects your ankles" is BS. You can break your ankle just as well in a leather boot. What holds up your ankle is your ankle. You'd have to wear a downhill ski boot to "protect your ankles". If you want blisters, go with leather. I wish I had known that.
It's not quite that simple. I have some nerve damage in my left calf and as a result have some muscle atrophy in that area. I wear boots for support, not protection. Believe me, boots provide support that runners don't.
It would seem to logically follow that support increases protection but even if it doesn't I still need to wear boots - unless someone will carry my pack for me....
Tb
Use common sense when taking advice from others. Evaluate it for your situation and err on the side of caution. Don't sacrifice safety for comfort.
fiddlehead
02-12-2008, 06:51
Always put things back in the same place. (in your pack)
You should be able to find everything in your pack in the dark, without a light.
This little rule has saved me time and time again.
AT-HITMAN2005
02-12-2008, 07:42
take everything told to you by hikers going the opposite direction with a grain of salt. remember they were coming down that big hill not going up it the direction you are.
learned in EMT school that falling any distance greater than twice your height can be very bad. if that guy had been wearing boots-in his 60 foot fall- it likely would have saved his ankles, true, but would have likely transfered the shock further up his body and done something even worse. hips or knees.
Mrs Baggins
02-12-2008, 07:44
I second this advice. Leather is obsolete, few wear leather shirts, pants and raccoon hats any more. The old, "it protects your ankles" is BS. You can break your ankle just as well in a leather boot. What holds up your ankle is your ankle. You'd have to wear a downhill ski boot to "protect your ankles". If you want blisters, go with leather. I wish I had known that.
I wear only leather (gortex lined) Hi Tec Altitude boots, above the ankle. Zero blisters, zero irritation, and they've saved my ankles many many many times from batterings against rocks and twisting/spraining. When I've tried wearing my trail runners my ankles ache, get banged up, easily twist and turn, and I get hot spots. My Hi Tecs also keep my feet completely dry when I have to ford a stream that is ankle deep - not a drop of water has ever seeped in. Ever.
This is a great thread, Cuffs. I'm glad someone revived it.
I am still a 'newbie' for the most part. We just started backpacking last year. There is a lot of good advice everyone has given. While it is still fresh in my newbie mind, I was thinking back to our first overnighter on the AT. What I experienced and learned from that and other trips since is:
These are things that work FOR ME:
DEFINITELY listen to the body-take 'shoes off' breaks when needed (for us it is about every 3 to 5 miles). Rubbing your feet is an amazing treat on these 'shoes off' breaks.
DO NOT rush your mileage. Enjoy it! If you don't get to your tenative destination, so what. The trail will be there tomorrow.
ALWAYS take water when available. Unless you have a completely full water bottle. This is especially important on warmer days. If you are a section hiker, try to get a water report before hitting the trail. That saved us this past year during the drought.
Gear is important!! You absolutely get what you pay for. We have tried using some gear that we thought 'alright we'll get that since its so cheap'--nope, doesn't cut it. BUT by no means do you have to pay out the a$$ for gear either. RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH for gear. All of our gear is top rated, new, and on the lighter side. I did not pay full retail price for 3/4 of it. Sierra Trading post, Campmor, Campsaver, Backcountry, REI (bargain barn), Northern Mountain Supply, Gear swaps or gear 'flea markets' (GAF at NOC every year is a great one)- and many more I know I am forgetting- are great places to get great deals. You should almost never have to pay full price if you just research.
We were practically camping experts-no kidding-before backpacking. It was a huge help on our 1st trip. We were very glad we had that experience. If you've never gone camping-car camping- then try it taking only what you would go into the woods with.
Always take advice from experienced backpackers. It will always stick with you and help you out. Thanks everyone on WB!
The number one thing is ENJOY THE HIKE!! Do the hike for you and only you. NO ONE can tell you what works for you. You HAVE to figure that out for yourself.
OKAY...I'll shut up now. Us newbies have too much trail excitement going on.;)
Roots -- you sound like a quick learner. Good tips. Happy trails to you. :)
Roots -- you sound like a quick learner. Good tips. Happy trails to you. :)
Thanks, Terrapin! I learn fast with the things I have true passion for. School on the other hand...:D
88BlueGT
02-12-2008, 13:31
Not to buy a 6lb sleeping bag, a ten dollar mess kit, a 2.5lb coleman lantern, and a 4lb coleman stove. I bought these things, and rebought all of it a week later after I realized what the heck I did :)
not to just assume what you have is good enough.If I didn't already know this ,then I sure remebered during my 1st backpacking trip carrying over 50lbs,hating life and just plain miserable. But,that is how we learn,by getting out there and finding out what works and doesn't work. Then make adjustments and try again.(and then you finally realize,will it ever be enough?,will you ever be satisfied?,is there something out their that will work better?) :-?
Anyway good thread:)
hopefulhiker
02-12-2008, 13:57
I think another thing I learned was the difference between real and perceived risks or threats.. you are more likely to fall down than probably anything else, like get attacked by somebody or some animal...
A Gear list, and check your student's stuff. It is amazing what the first timer thinks is necessary. I looked like the family truck from the "Grapes of Wrath." on my first ever overnight. Make it an AT experience and go thru each other's gear so you don't duplicate items. Be funny ruthless, like other hikers did with us.
Have one journal with a water proof pen to pass aournd the group for sayings, experiences and funnies. A little sprial notebook works great. At the end, type it up and give a copy to each student.
Have them break into small groups and plan meals for three or four people. Menu planning really gets them working together. Who will carry what, who hates what, working with meaties and vegetarins together.
Foot care as stated in many posts above.
At the end, immediately write down in the journal what worked and what didn't. Before the "euphoric recall" of the trip sets in. Your bigger students can carry more than your smaller students, a fact of life. The smaller ones need to dump weight, which is a project in itself.
If you have females, have them check the female forum for special issues.
What a cool project and what fun you will have.
River Runner
02-14-2008, 01:57
Do not buy the cheap bargain sleeping bag.
I'll second the gear list idea. Make it complete and expansive. Check it before you leave on any outing, even a simple overnight. Of course, you won't take everything on the list. But the list means that you have considered everything, and forced yourself to say "Yes" or "No" to each item.
Bare Bear
02-14-2008, 15:09
Weight is everything.
Get a small digital scale and weigh eavey item then decide if you NEED it or just WANT it. I started at 37 pounds including food for 4-5 days then got down to 27 by Harpers Ferry as I decided I could live without stuff I HAD THOUGHT ESSENTIAL.