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Downunda
11-03-2003, 04:30
Help, I’m looking for proven methods to waterproof and save my favourite tent, so if you’ve had a similar problem and have a guaranteed fix I’d love to hear from you.

My tent is a Sierra Designs Clip Lightyear. I used this tent on my AT hike last year and slept in it around 100 nights, so it has much sentimental value. I have really looked after this tent and it still looks like new (I always used a ground sheet to protect the tent floor).

However, this last weekend I went hiking and it rained solidly overnight and I basically got washed out. The lower part of my sleeping bag was soaked from water dropping on it from the fly above, plus the floor of the tent was soaked inside. I do intend to seam seal the floor but I suspect that the water actually came in through the floor rather than through the seams, which are somewhat above ground level, so I don’t think that seam sealing will fix the problem

I assume that because the tent was removed and stuffed into the stuff sack so many times that perhaps the waterproof qualities of the material have impacted.

I’m sure lots there are lots of hikers out there with more experience than me who will know first hand which products work and which don’t.

Of course if there’s no saving my tent then I’ll buy a new one, but it seems such a waste when it still looks to be in great condition.

Thanks all.

Youngblood
11-03-2003, 09:21
Downunda,

I know this may be a stupid question for someone who just did a thru-hike, but here it is: Are you sure the tent was leaking? I had the same experience one night on my thru-hike with the SD Lightyear tent and concluded that it was from condensation. It was one of those 100% humidity/rainy days, I spent more than normal time in the tent and last but not least, I was with 3 other thru-hikers with various tents who all had the same problem. Everything I had was soaked-- even things in not so perfect zip-lock bags were soaked (like my camera).

Youngblood

tribes
11-03-2003, 09:50
I will almost guarantee that the seam sealant around the velcro tabs on the Lightyear has worn off. Try reapplying a copious amount of seam sealant to the velcro tabs where they physically sewn on to the fly. It may be leaking though the thread holes. I had the same problem last year and this cured it.:D

icemanat95
11-03-2003, 11:03
Condensation will defeat any and all attempts to seal water out of a tent.

Here's how it works.

Humidity is generally distributed in the air on really rainy, foggy nights, the humidity will be 100% or nearly so.

As you sleep, you continue to breahte out moisture and sweat it out. Tent fabrics, even uncoated fabrics will act as barriers to allowing that moisture to pass out of the tent. So the tent atmosphere is not only nearly saturated by outside moisture, but gets supersaturated by the moisture coming out of you. That moisture will filter into anything that is not COMPLETELY air tight, dampening it.

Additionally condensation forms on the warm side of any barrier between a cold environment and a warm humid environment. The inside of a tent will always be warmer than the outside when a human being is inside heating it. So condensation will always form on the inside of the tent. In really cold weather where the barrier itself may be freezing cold, that condensate will take the form of frost, thus it can SNOW on the inside of a tent in cold conditions as the wind shakes the tent and shakes loose frost crystals from the fabric.

So as condensation builds up on the inside of the tent fly (usually condensation only dampens the breatheable tent body, but the coated fly and floor are absolute moisture barriers, so water droplets will form), it forms water drops which grow until their mass exceeds the ability of the fiber/surface texture of the fly fabric to hold them. They run down the sides of the fly or simply drop off like rain. They hit the inner fabric, soak it and that extra moisture is wicked downward to the floor which, being a moisture barrier, collects that water. The floor also condenses water, because the ground will ALWAYS be cooler than the interior of the tent. Now here's the important bit, a human being can easily exhale and sweat out a quart of moisture in a night, EASILY. If half of that moisture winds up precipitated out of the air by condensation and wicks down to the floor, you wake up in the morning lying in a pint of water or more. There is NOTHING you can do about that, and it will always be worse in humid and/or cold conditions. In warmer weather the temperature differential on one side of the tent fabric and the other will be less, resulting in less condensation. The sharper the differential the faster condensation forms.

Now your tent may have started leaking. It happens. Spray the outside surface of the tent floor and fly with a water repellent treatment. They coat the interior surfaces of the fabrics with urethane, that's the water barrier, but the exterior surfaces are only treated with a durable water repellent treatment which eventually wears off or UV degrades. When that happens, the fabric fibers become more prone to soaking, and can wick water through the fabric to the points in the waterproof coatings that are no longer waterproof or through seams and other penetrations in the fabric. So first seam seal the tent floor and fly, then spray down, or wash the whole tent in a water repellency treatment to restore water-repellency to the fabric and prevent soaking. In seam-sealing pay special attention to the stress points. Seal the seams inside and out (yeah it looks ugly, but shelter is not about looks, it's about staying relatively warm and dry.

There is NOTHING you can do to render a tent absolutely weatherproof, but you can make it survivably so. Good ventilation is critical to reducing condensation BTW. This is why I bear the extra weight and carry tent stakes and guy out loops for every possible guy-out and staking position. On tents without enough guy out points, I add them. This allows better air flow between tent body and tent fly. It also ensures a tight, sag free pitch that helps ensure that when condensation droplets begin to run, they don't hit the inner tent fabric before they get to the edge of the fly and fall off onto the ground. A tight pitch is important.

Footslogger
11-03-2003, 13:37
I'd vote with Tribes' suggestion. I had a similar tent with the velcro tabs that were designed to fasten to the tent poles for the "fast packing" approach. Those tabs were sewn into the seam of the tent such that excess water from rain would actually wick into them and drip into the tent. Since I didn't use them anyway, my first step was to clip off those velcro tabs at the tent seam level. Then I applied copius amounts of seam sealer to that area ...and voile ...no more leaks. Carry that tent often now and have been caught in some nasty downpours but have stayed dry.

Presto
11-03-2003, 17:44
Tents' treatments sometimes just wear out allowing the nylon to leak. You can re-treat your tent using a polyurethane tent sealer. Almost any major outfitter will carry this stuff. Go to www.REI.com and search for "poly coat" to see what I'm talking about.

As others said - try the seam sealer first but if you suspect the fabric is leaking you can try the poly. I used the poly on a clip 3 that was several years old. Bought the tent used for $40 and spent $20 on seam sealer and poly. Kept the rain out albeit the poly does add a little weight to the tent - as does the sealer.

The Weasel
11-03-2003, 18:44
STOP!!! While many "second tier" tents are ones which, when they leak, can be retreated, if your CD is leaking (I have one, identical, LOVE it) after only one year, that is NOT "normal wear and tear" even after a thru hike. I would call Sierra Designs, tell them the problem, and politely insist on having the tent re-coated. I would AVOID buying polyeurethan myself for a couple of reasons: First off, you can't be totally sure about the fabric and how it will react. Second, when I've recoated tents (and I've done a LOT, as a Scoutmaster), you ALWAYS put on more than is needed (can't be helped when brushing) so the weight you add is MUCH more than Sierra will do. Lastly, doing it yourself may void your warranty. I'd at LEAST get Sierra's advice first. High end manufacturer's like them with lifetime warranties are great. And before everyone says, "It's wear and tear," call and ask. By the way, if you bought it at REI, there is a lifetime warranty on EVERYTHING they sell.

Downunda
11-03-2003, 22:18
Thanks for all the information and suggestions. I did forget to mention that the problem wasn't condensation related as it was very low humidity.

I'll try contacting Sierra as suggested but they may just bump me back to the Australian retailer who will probably say wear and tear. But if you don't ask you don't get so i'll give it a try.

ronk
11-05-2003, 12:02
one thing I have done is put your ground tarp "inside" the tent a waterproff barrier inside is effective... any tent floor will allow water to pass through because of pressure caused by weight of your body ..water proof plastic will pool water between the palstic and floor if it is outside tent... won't if it is inside...give it a try

icemanat95
11-13-2003, 11:56
Just because ambient humidity is low doesn't mean it isn't condensation. Your body will more than adequately humidify a small tent during the course of the night. Your body humidifies the air you breathe if there isn't enough moisture in it already. Your skin also constantly seeks a certain level of moisture and in dry weather, the dry air steals that moisture forcing the skin to replenish. So in coller, dryer weather, the air inside your tent will be much more humid than the air outside the tent. You could easily breathe and sweat out over a pint of moisture during the course of a night....easily. With cold air outside the tent, much of that moisture will condense on the inside of the tent fabric and then run down the walls to the floor. On one winter trip I did, my buddy and I woke in the morning to about 1/8 inch of frost on the inside of the tent roof and walls, and a good bit of frost lying on top of us and our gear having been knocked off the roof by the winds shaking the tent.

But then, your tent may well be leaking for some reason. I'd take Weasel's advice and see about sending it in to Sierra Designs to check out and recoat. Even if they won't do it on warranty, their commercial process will be better than anything you can do at home and it'll be worth the money.