View Full Version : Clothing System Questions
Passionphish
09-03-2007, 18:24
I'm doing my hike in 2008. I am taking two pair of the new nylon/cotton BDU's used my the military as my two pair of pants. (I've been through the cotton argument all I care too.) I want my pants to be DURABLE.
My questions are this:
1. I want merino wool for my base layers (underwear/shirt, I like tight fitting). Who sells the stuff and which is best? What kind of prices am I looking for?
2. What are the best kinda socks to go with. I can handle liners if it proves to be better.
3. I am thinking of taking two button up shirts for my 'over the underwear' layer. That way I can do long sleeve or short sleeve. I could do t-shirts but then I would have to buy another set of shirts for the colder months. I am open to any suggestions from anybody about any way to go!
4. What is the best, well ventilated (I sweat!!!), rain jacket? I don't need a lot of other features. Just ventilation, LOW weight, and a hood. Please help out. I have got to get my clothing system worked out and winter is coming!!!!
About those BDUs. Wouldn't they be ok for backpacking since the military uses them. I mean they are in some harsh cold climates that face the same hypothermia issues as backpackers. Or am I missing something.
wrongway_08
09-03-2007, 18:33
1) REI, Mine cost $55.00 - $70.00 depending on top or bottom, also the weight you choose makes a difference. I bought Smart Wool, warm, tight, stretchy.
2) Personal taste on the brand name. I almost always wear liners, just feels better.
3) I bought the long sleeve that you can roll the arms up, 2 in 1 deal.
4) ??? Not sure, I went with REI Ultra lights. Large vent pockets.
wrongway_08
09-03-2007, 18:36
About those BDUs. Wouldn't they be ok for backpacking since the military uses them. I mean they are in some harsh cold climates that face the same hypothermia issues as backpackers. Or am I missing something.
The BDUs we wear would get way too heavy, just from sweat. I love them, they fit great, good storage but man they get heavy. During winter I layer them with fleece and the warmth is no problem, but again, mine get heavy.
They dry slow also.
His might be different.
My only comment on the BDUs is that you might try weaning off the "two of the same" kick and try going with just the one. The other layers might provide sufficient backup when the BDUs are in wash and dry mode.
Your questions:
1. I want merino wool for my base layers (underwear/shirt, I like tight fitting). Who sells the stuff and which is best? What kind of prices am I looking for?
- Stanfields in Truro Nova Scotia carries merino long underwear and their factory outlet, which is actual at their factory, sells it at about $20 a pair and I think I got the Combo for $30 or so. On the heavy side though. Winter stuff. For a more useful weight, light tight merino sweaters are available many places for $12-$20, but bottoms are not so easy to find at thrift store prices. There is supposed to be some Kiwi or Aussi brand that is 'best'. I like how they list their stuff by weight.
2. What are the best kinda socks to go with. I can handle liners if it proves to be better.
- Again I say never two of the same, even with socks. I like one pair of smart heavy wool which is better than others when wet, one medium pair of plain wool which is cheaper and might be easier to dry, and something in a synthethic liner which can be worn alone or with the others. In warmer weather one wool and two synthetic might be better.
3. I am thinking of taking two button up shirts for my 'over the underwear' layer. That way I can do long sleeve or short sleeve. I could do t-shirts but then I would have to buy another set of shirts for the colder months. I am open to any suggestions from anybody about any way to go!
- I have just recently purchased some short sleeved silk shirts, and I am going to try wearing them OVER long sleeved merino sweaters as the skin layer. I think it looks pretty spiffy, and I am going to try it at work and in the woods. Again I will only take one of anything in the woods though. You hope for the coldest and wettest days so you can wear everything at once. :)
4. What is the best, well ventilated (I sweat!!!), rain jacket? I don't need a lot of other features. Just ventilation, LOW weight, and a hood. Please help out. I have got to get my clothing system worked out and winter is coming!!!!
- I just look for the cheapest lightest nylon I can find. It is sufficiently breathable, but still effective as a wind layer and light rain layer, and light enough that it will dry out fast if it gets wet. For heavy rain I wear a poncho tarp, which is vented enough on the side. I think with the right mix of wool and synthetics underneath it doesn't matter so much what you wear on top. I generally leave the wool on even if its wet, and add or remove the other layers as needed. Best way to dry wool is while wearing it. Dark colours.
SGT Rock
09-03-2007, 19:25
They teach you to forgo using the BDUs (now called ACUs) in cold weather training - the BDUs/ACUs are not supposed to be icluded in the system when trying to stay warm and dry. I have tons of 'em and wouldn't carry any of them on the trail.
Good luck.
bigcranky
09-03-2007, 20:01
Wool: Ibex, Icebreaker, and Smartwool are major merino wool brands. They have a wide variety of different fabric weights, and the prices are pretty high. Look for them on sale at places like backcountry.com and Sierra Trading Post.
Pants: I suspect that you'll be hiking in shorts for most, if not all, of the trail. I don't carry or wear 'hiking pants' at all. I have either very light wind pants, or breathable rain pants, depending on the time of year. It looks goofy, but it's very comfortable to hike in your long johns with shorts over them. Also, you may be overrating durability over hiking comfort. But that's your choice. (I do have some experience with BDU pants, and they were always either way too hot or way too cold. Mostly way too hot.)
Socks: I kinda like wool socks now. The Smartwool Adrenaline Multisport Light Cushion (say that three times fast) are my current socks. I wear the crew height in cold weather, and the quarter height in warmer weather. In very hot weather I sometimes switch to thin Coolmax synthetic socks.
Shirts: A button-up shirt is nice, especially in cooler weather. I'd only bring one, and plan to put on my long john top in camp. Mostly, though, I just wear a t-shirt.
Rain shell: I have yet to find a shell that fits your criteria. I've been using a Marmot Precip jacket just because it was inexpensive on sale, and it works ok. But I still get soaked going uphill. I think my next March hike will include a silnylon poncho instead of the jacket.
Here's my clothing system, in layers from the skin out:
1. Very light wool or synthetic shirt, either short or long-sleeve, depending on the time of year. Wool is amazing stuff -- it doesn't chill me when I stop, and it never stinks.
2. A 3-ounce nylon windshirt. This is my second layer, to wear when I stop, or on the trail on chilly days. I was amazed at how much warmth I got from 3 oz of fabric.
3. An insulated layer. This can be a lightweight 100-wt fleece in sumer, but usually it's a puffy insulated piece. A light Montbell down vest, a Patagonia micropuff pullover, or a big down jacket, the choice again depends on the time of year. These are what I put on when I stop during the day, or in camp at night. They also extend the range of my sleeping bag at night. I can't think of any time when I've ever worn this layer while actually hiking, even in winter.
4. A waterproof shell. This is used when the weather is either very wet, or very cold and windy. The Precip jacket is okay -- at least it vents reasonably well. If I wear this while hiking, it goes directly over my base layer -- I put out way too much heat walking.
On my legs, it's a similar system:
Synthetic running shorts with a mesh brief.
Light wind pants over the shorts when it's chilly. Tall gaiters in mucky weather.
Synthetic or wool long johns in camp, the weight depends on the time of year.
Rain pants in winter.
A warm hat and warm windproof gloves are part of the kit, and in serious cold weather I carry a spare dry set for camp.
In my pack I carry the warm layers, a spare pair of shorts and a spare base layer (top). I change into these in camp, then put them back in my pack the next morning and put on my nasty wet hiking clothes. This way I always have a dry set of clothing for camp, and something reasonably clean to wear in town or hitching.
Hope this helps. Get out there and hike, you'll figure it out. Happy trails.
Doughnut
09-03-2007, 20:15
Ditto SGT Rock, I am retired Army, I use BDUs for hunting but that's it. The Poly underwear is GREAT, as are the wool glove liners, socks, and old woll shirts if you can find one in a surplus store, Also, the Poly "sleeping shirt" is fantastic, just not the BDU's.
Rain JAcket? forget it, I sweatr a lot too, and I get wet inside or out, so I use a light jacket for warmth, not watter protection. IN the extreme cold I use fleece, water resistant from Woolrich and a Columbia shell, works for me.
Passionphish
09-03-2007, 20:16
They teach you to forgo using the BDUs (now called ACUs) in cold weather training - the BDUs/ACUs are not supposed to be icluded in the system when trying to stay warm and dry. I have tons of 'em and wouldn't carry any of them on the trail.
Good luck.
So if not ACU's (which is what I have I think) then what do you go with? I understand heavy with these things. But I figured once I was out of the cold march and april in the mountains (Most people I have asked have walked through snow!!!), then they would make nice shorts! I went with the summer season stuff hoping to stay warm and dry by layering with Wool. But again, I am open to new ideas. What I go with on the AT will strongly effect my new hiking systems. My thru-hike is coinsiding with my conversion to light-ultralight hiking.
Thanks for that list Big Cranky! I'm shopping around for those now! Everyone else seems to agree with my choice of wool so that is a good thing.
I have a post here some where from like a few months ago where I talked about water proofing my SD anorak. But decided against it as I think that just going with low cost nylon is best. The more pricey stuff just doesn't wear better enough to warrent the cost to me. Thanks Guys!!!!
SGT Rock
09-03-2007, 21:25
So if not ACU's (which is what I have I think) then what do you go with? I understand heavy with these things. But I figured once I was out of the cold march and april in the mountains (Most people I have asked have walked through snow!!!), then they would make nice shorts! I went with the summer season stuff hoping to stay warm and dry by layering with Wool. But again, I am open to new ideas. What I go with on the AT will strongly effect my new hiking systems. My thru-hike is coinsiding with my conversion to light-ultralight hiking.
Well you know yourself better than anyone. But I wouldn't wear them in the heat or cold of the Appalachians. They suck when any moisture gets into them - they work best in the desert.
I would suggest starting with some zip off nylon pants and then eventually going just shorts.
7Sisters
09-03-2007, 21:35
I have been wearing marmot Dry Precip jacket for the past 5 years and absolutely love it. I wear it all 4 seasons - including ice climbing in New Hampshire.
I great durable product by a manufacturer that stands by it's gear.
The only real beef I have with these some of these trade-name fabrics is I haven't a clue what they are, because they won't tell us. Sure materials like nylon and dacron were tradenames at some point in their lives, but we know what they are, right down to the chemical formula. I want to know what I'm getting. The exact makeup of a trade-name can change, unless they come right out and tell us exactly what the material is, as some do. Of course even with a given material, like polyester fleece for example, there can be considerable difference in important characteristics like how much water it absorbs. But even good trade-names like Polartec and PolarTherm are no guarantee. I think you have to touch and feel any given fabric to have an idea of how good it is. Also, it is pretty easy to put together an excellent clothing system that is both cheap and light and performs well in changing conditions. So I don't buy any material without handling it, and it usually has to be pretty darn cheap. I would pay more for a hand knit stuff though, if I knew the lady, and had the money.
1. As far as the t shirt goes, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who can argue against the Icebreaker Tech T Lite (just voted best best overall trail T in Backpacker Mag's Apparel Reveiw Oct '07).
2. Socks are a personal issue between you and your feet, but lots of good press for the Smartwool Adrenaline's
3. I'd look for a windshirt instead. I've got one from Patagonia I like that only weighs 3oz.
4. When you say "the best well ventilated", I assume the only answer is something made from event fabric - let your checkbook beware because none of it comes cheap.
The best advice I can give you is to look at some of the Reader Review sites for the catagories you are interested in because you can learn from other people's experience. My favorite is at BPL (just because I like the way it's organized).
Cedar Tree
09-04-2007, 06:36
4. What is the best, well ventilated (I sweat!!!), rain jacket? I don't need a lot of other features. Just ventilation, LOW weight, and a hood. Please help out.
I think the Packa is the Best ventilated, LOW weight rain protection. It has a hood. www.thepacka.com
I will probably have a couple of returns on ebay soon.
CT
My Aunt knits. Skip that stuff. Maybe mittens, but heavy.
You are right on that not all polyesters are created equal.
Sometimes you have to pay. I have a couple things, seemed wicked for a 1/4 zip, but I will buy another one this winter. Some things are worth the money.
After I quit gagging on the price.
SGT Rock
09-04-2007, 08:46
Not exactly answering your questions, but here is how I layer - you could replace some of these items with wool or whatever it was you wanted to.
1. Clothing worn:
running socks
trail runners
microfiber underwear
shorts
underarmor t-shirt
ball cap
2. Extra clothing carried:
extra running socks
extra underwear
wind shirt
3. Rain Clothing
The Packa (very very cool rain gear)
provent pants (like frog toggs)
seal skinz (waterproof socks)
OR rain mittens
With those layers I can handel weather down to about 50. If it gets cool it is usually because it is also wet - and having a pair of mittens and warm socks that can also protect from the wet while adding some warmth are a good cross trade. The same thing with the pants - so no zip off required.
4. Fall/Spring Clothing (30-50)
smartwool socks
powerstretch top
powerstretch pants
smartwool gloves
fleece beenie
You could replace the powerstretch with wool. After spending all the money on powerstretch I am still not sold that it is the best base layer. Anyway, I add this level of clothing to my pack when I expect temperatures from 30-50.
5. Winter Clothing
thick smartwool socks
fleece mittens
army field pants linner
kennebeck pullover
polypro neck gaiter
I've found that lofted insulation works a lot better for the space and weight than fleece or wool hence the field pants liner and pullover. I can wear every piece of clothing I carry together and not have anything be redundant except the extra pair of underwear and socks. All my clothing I would carry for an early March start together comes in at 74.78oz (carried) + 45.48 (worn including shoes) = 120.26 (7.5 pounds).
Tipi Walter
09-04-2007, 08:54
I've worn "fatigues" and later BDUs on dozens of backpacking trips and they are hot and heavy(partially cotton). The old style ripstop without the knee and butt reinforcements are lighter but are still cotton and don't last too long in the field. The heavier BDUs last forever but are just too hot and heavy for serious backpacking. The ONLY advantage they provide is a feeling of gungy machismo while out on the trail pumping nylon. They provide a sort of Rambo "get-it-done" jungle expert mindset which sometimes helps on a tough backpacking trip. But that's it!
I'd go for shorts and no pants except lightweight rain/wind pants. In snow and cold these light pants can be worn over polypro or merino bottoms and that's enough protection.