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SkyKing
11-04-2003, 22:02
Hope this meets with the "spirit" of this foram attroll.
I had knee sugury 07 AUG for a Torn Meniscus. This is the medical mumbo-jumbo. Actually there was a huge area of of bone on bone, hence the painful down hills.
Has anyone here has semilar surgy....and how long before you were able to Backpak?
Up hill with a daypack is ok but down is still a killer! :(
Just got this cool hi-tech knee brace (robo-knee) that "they" say will allow me to backpack, but not soon.

Lugnut
11-05-2003, 02:19
I had surgery on a torn lateral meniscus five years ago. I could never tell that it actually helped. I just decided that if I wanted to still hike I would just have to tolerate the pain. Sometimes my knee feels fine and then other times it's bad. Hopefully you will have better results. I had "old" knees to begin with so YMMV>

Uncle Wayne
11-05-2003, 03:06
SkyKing,
My son, 22 years old at the time, had to leave the trail in June of 2001 to have surgery to repair a torn meniscus. The rehab and therapy lasted 6 weeks and then he was on his own. It took about a year before his knee "felt right." While he hasn't tackled the AT again he has trained for several marathons and has had no problems running. I know from experience that running conditioning doesn't equate with backpacking conditioning but the pounding the knee has taken while running would seem to indicate his surgery (and knee repair) was a success. I don't know if day after day of uphill and down hill backpacking would cause him similar problems as you have experienced.
Hopefully you will be back on the trail as pain free as possible soon.

SkyKing
11-05-2003, 10:43
Thanks Lugnut and Uncle Wayne.
At 51 the Doc did says my knee would never be 16 again....well DUH! I guess I am expecting too much too quick but I want to get on the trail soooo bad. This has put my planed thru behind another year but I guess it's better than having to leave the trail half way to Main.
Uncle Wayne....really enjoyed your Clingmans to Davenport trip report. I was at Clingmans around that time but didn't see any old Uncles with a pack! :)

ronk
11-05-2003, 11:55
Sky King

I had torn miniscus repaired with arthroscopic surgery 5 years ago.

I was basically fit fo 50 yrs old... maybe 10 lbs to many but active skiing and hiking. Ski over 100 days a season. I had surgery Jan 2 and was back on snow mid-March, not a particularly intelligent move on my part.

Took until next season to feel confident skiing again. That being said though I used snowshoeing, hiking and cross-country skiing as rehab. I could cross country ski, which is very non-impact on the flats, after about 4 weeks, snowshoe and hike uphill within 6 weeks..

without pain ...about 2-6 months....

that was 5 years ago I still hike and ski alot...(still 100 plus days)

knee is stable and strong...though I ache in the morning some times...but that has more to do with being 55...

don't push your rehab..be patient.. you'll be 100% again....

Senor Quack
11-07-2003, 14:14
Just last week, during a weekend hike, I experienced bad pain in my outer left knee after doing a long downhill (I was even using poles).

I'm only 23 and I've never experienced knee pain before this. I was easy on it for the next few days and everything seemed healed, but after a week it hurts just as bad as before. I do have a bad back, maybe I have a general condition?

I've had my heart set on an AT thru-hike for next year, so this is quite a blow for me. I've just recently gotten into backpacking and spent thousands on equipment! I'd never be able to hike much with this much pain, especially not all the way to Maine

I did some research on glucosamine supplementation last night and here are my conclusions:

1.) Glucosamine is a form of sugar that your body injests and also produces to form parts of your cartilage

2.) There have been a few studies (using only glucosamine sulfate, not glucosamine hydrochloride) that have shown significant improvement in arthritis sufferers

3.) Many supplements offer glucosamine in conjuction with chondritin (another compound the body uses to heal and form joint material) as well as MSM, which is a compound that I think helps both of these to be absorbed and used

4.) Many supplements offer glucosamine in the untested hydrochloride form. It would be wiser to use the sulfate form.

I went to CVS and did some cost comparisons and found that Flexamin offers all 3 compounds, uses the sulfate form of glucosamine, and actually beats the price of the CVS generic copy (that has identical ingredients) in the 160-capsule bottle. I'll let you all know if my knee or back get any better after a few weeks..

gravityman
11-07-2003, 14:54
Your bone on bone contact cannot (as yet) be repaired. They probably just cleaned up the cartilage, which is where a lot of pain could be generated.

The robo-knee most likely won't help you. You are missing the shock absorber in your knee. The next best thing you can do is put a shock absorber under your feet (nice soft trail runners, which can actually be hard to find since most shoe companies assume that trails are already soft enough and you need more "support") and distributing the weight (use poles).

You also have to strength the muscles in the leg to prevent more damage to the cartilage. Biking is the the best for this. Watch out for twisting, turning motions, as that is what tends to get on in trouble.

How soon will you be able to hike? After I had my ACL replaced and my cartilage cleaned up (they also found a dime size section of cartilage that had worn away) I was in aggressive physical therapy. I was off my crutches in about 4 days, and walking normally after 2 weeks. Hiking in about 4 weeks. Spent a lot of time strenghting my leg muscles.

Glucosumine is a very good idea. It's not total bunk like most stuff out there, just kinda bunk :)

Gravity Man

PS I also broke both my ankles about a year before the hike. My ankles and knee never felt better than when I was actually hiking that AT. Something about using them every day helped a lot with the arthritis. My ankles give me the most daily pain, my knee the most pain on going down hill...

Moose2001
11-07-2003, 15:02
I'd also suggest talking to your doctor about Vioxx or something smiliar (Celebrex). I had severe knee pain that ended my 2001 hike. I tried Glucosamine and had limited success with it. I had major problems with my left knee again in 2003. A great doc in Gatlinburg put me on Vioxx. I went from feeling like there was a hot poker in my knee to pain free in 10 days. I was back on the trail and doing 20 milers within 15 days. I stayed on Vioxx the entire trip and never had knee pain again. After the trip was over, I stopped the Vioxx and the stiffness in my knees came back within 2 days. IMHO, Vioxx is a wonder drug. If you're having knee pain and stiffness I HIGHLY recommend talking to your doctor about it.

whcobbs
11-07-2003, 17:01
At age 58, I am the veteran of sequential R + L torn medial meniscus injuries, in both cases successfully rehabed with physical therapy and no surgery. This isn't possible for everyone, but if the tear is not severe it should be considered as the first line of approach. Hiking and especially backpacking requires specific as well as general conditioning. Suggest start with light daypack, work up gradually to longer distance, and accept the reality of current limitation to avoid worse injury.

Walt

MedicineMan
11-09-2003, 02:33
Well I've got CP, chondromalasioa patella and as of now there is no surgical option...and I've tried the gamut of therapeutic options...but the bottom line-and Lone Wolf will like this - is to just hike, grit the teeth if you have too, take a COX2 inhibitor (Celebrex,Viox,etc), take Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM but keep hiking....CP is a misalignment of the Patella (supposedly) but its the hipbone connected to the thigh bone thing so any misalignment from toe to spine could be problematic...but two orthopods told me the same thing:
1. McConnell taping technique-which requires a trip to and money to a PT (closely guarded secret) but when hiking and sweating the tape wont stick to me
2. NSAIDs and COX2 inhibitors
One even told me to stay on the couch and act my age!
But most agree on the CP support group on Yahoo-to keep active, to learn the specific excercises (another PT guarded secret) that build/reinforce the knee.
So a couple of days before a hike I start on Celebrex to get the level up, try to take Glucosamine/Chondoitin/MSM (and I went to a CE meeting last year and the FDA has clinical proof that it is effective and not snake oil) then just do it.

Lone Wolf
11-09-2003, 09:44
That's right Simva, suck it up and hike! Pain is just weakness leaving the body. I had major surgery after tearing my ACL, PCL, MCL and cartilage. No hiking poles or pills for me. :cool:

SkyKing
11-11-2003, 20:01
Great posts everyone!
Senor Quack..I take Glucosamine/Chondritin 500mg/400mg. Don't know if it will help but the Doc suggested it.
Gravityman..Your right about cleaning up the cartilage. I also had a lateral release. My mind just went blank about what the brace is called but it has two adjustments that push against the outside of the knee to bring it back into alignment. This eases the bone-on-bone....and it DOES help. No pain while wearing it. The problem I have is keeping it from sliding down. It has five straps that if misadjusted really cut into the leg..especially behind the knee. I'm sure I'll master it with time and practice. I've yet to hike with it..hope to this weekend. I was never on crutches. I AM guilty of not working on strengthening the knee....gotta work on that thru the winter!!
Moose2001..I take Celebrex 200 mg daily for arthritis in my hands (more "old people" problems). Was given Bextra after surgery but the Celebrex seem to help more.
Whcobbs..The few times I've been hiking I take a day pack with 3L water..snack..extra clothes. I've also hauled hay a few times..riding the wagon..unloading in the barn..and have done ok as long as I didn't twist the knee.
UREAKA....I remembered!!! The brace is called an "Unloader".
Simva..The "Unloader" may be something to look into for your misalignment. It's made by DONJOY out of CA. It's $800 + but thank goodness my insurance paid for it!
L. Wolf..Thanks but I'll take the pills and poles!! Yeah..I know..I'm a wuss!!!! :)

2XL
11-12-2003, 19:24
I had my medial miniscus repaired on August 6th of this year. I went hiking 2 weeks later. I was on the AT over Labor day weekend in Ct. and had no problems with the downhills. I would suggest a set of poles to take a little of the stress off your knees and ankles though to prevent future stress.

SkyKing
11-15-2003, 21:59
That's great Moose....but 2 weeks after my surgery I was still in rehab! Must be the age difference. Getting old SUCKS! :confused:

rumbler
12-09-2003, 16:23
I had ACL surgery in 2000 and thru-hiked in 2003. My repaired knee was no different than the other knee - They both complained. Until I hit the Whites, when they both had simultaneous nervous breakdowns and began acting disabled.

Advil. Morning, noon, night. And whiskey. Seriously. A great knee lubricant, taking a bit of a nip of a stiff one works wonders on those days where the knees just do not want operate with machine-like precision and mobility. An idea: Take Tang and a small flask of Absolut Mandarin. Makes for a tasty elixer when the knees are rebelling.

Seriously, you should be fine if your rehab went well. Just listen to them, and if they become painful - differentiated from being sore or stiff - be prepared to take a break or slow down.

whcobbs
12-10-2003, 17:31
Rumbler--

Just a follow up provoked by your post. As of today (10 Dec ) I'm able to run or XC ski about 5 miles at a time, pain free. The trail beckons.

Thanks,
Walt

:) :)
I had ACL surgery in 2000 and thru-hiked in 2003. My repaired knee was no different than the other knee - They both complained. Until I hit the Whites, when they both had simultaneous nervous breakdowns and began acting disabled.

Advil. Morning, noon, night. And whiskey. Seriously. A great knee lubricant, taking a bit of a nip of a stiff one works wonders on those days where the knees just do not want operate with machine-like precision and mobility. An idea: Take Tang and a small flask of Absolut Mandarin. Makes for a tasty elixer when the knees are rebelling.

Seriously, you should be fine if your rehab went well. Just listen to them, and if they become painful - differentiated from being sore or stiff - be prepared to take a break or slow down.

Cedar Tree
12-10-2003, 19:59
I had my ACL reconstruction in 93 and thruhiked in 2000. I was concerned about my knee prior to my hike, mainly because (like most people) I didn't work hard enough on my rehab. My knee hurt badly for the first month or so, but Advil did work well for me. After that first month, my knee strengthened up and didn't give me any more problems.