Chemical treatment question...

[whitefoot_hp]

are there any chemical treatments for water that dont require a considerable wait in order for you to drink the water?

[Tractor]

probably none that i would want to be in the vicinity of......

but i would be interested in the true answer, as well, if the process was safe.

[Appalachian Tater]

It depends upon what you consider "considerable". None are five minutes or less.

[SGT Rock]

Depends on what you consider considerable. 30 minutes is about standard for all I have seen.

[jesse]

This is what I use:
Katadyn Extream
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=37101015&memberId=12500226

[chiefdaddy]

house hold bleach takes 30 minutes to act.

[gold bond]

What about Aqua Mira? I usually combine the two chemicals add them to the water wait about 5-10 minutes to see and make sure the water clears up if need be and drink! No problems....sooo far!!

[Two Speed]

All chemical treatment methods require contact time to work. No chemical method of disinfection is instantaneous unless you use hazardous concentrations of the disinfecting chemical, which would of course render the water non-potable. The time required depends on the concentration of the chemical, the target organism, turbidity and temperature of the water, among other parameters.

Short version: read, understand and follow the instructions on the labeling on the chemicals you use.

[Dances with Mice]

Short version: read, understand and follow the instructions on the labeling on the chemicals you use.But what should guys do, 2?

[Two Speed]

Learn to read. :p

[Notsosure]

All chemical treatment methods require contact time to work. No chemical method of disinfection is instantaneous unless you use hazardous concentrations of the disinfecting chemical, which would of course render the water non-potable. The time required depends on the concentration of the chemical, the target organism, turbidity and temperature of the water, among other parameters.

Short version: read, understand and follow the instructions on the labeling on the chemicals you use.
I love it when you talk all scientific.

[Critterman]

are there any chemical treatments for water that dont require a considerable wait in order for you to drink the water?

Short answer - yes for bacteria and no for everything else.

Giardia and crpto take along time to kill. Bleach does a great job on bacteria in just a few minutes ( 1 -5 ) but takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours to kill giardia depending on the temperature, ph, cloudyness of the water. It won't kill crypto and it is not reliable for giardia. Iodine is even worse. The chlorine dioxide products work faster and more reliably for giardia but still take at least 30 minutes and 4 hours for crypto. They will kill bacteria within a few minutes.

[Two Speed]

Actually, bleach isn't so hot for several reasons, the primary reason being that the concentration of the available chlorine starts declining as soon as the bottle is opened. Given that a hiker would start with a fairly small bottle and probably open it at least once a day the concentration of chlorine in that small container will drop fairly rapidly, rendering the "disinfection" offered by household bleach more an article of faith than science.

If you're going to use household bleach EPA (http://www.epa.gov/safewater/faq/emerg.html) has a web page that offers some information. Basically, everything I've ever seen on the subject of using household bleach to disinfect drinking water leads me to believe bleach is a field expedient method that should only be used when there ain't nothing else, as in a disaster setting, and certainly not for routine use.

If anyone's going to insist on using bleach, well just help yourself, but please note that EPA and FEMA both specify non-scented bleach. The reason for that should be readily apparent, and if not . . . well, everyone's gotta learn somehow, I guess. :p

Sgt Rock, it seems you had some references to military pubs on the issue. Got a link handy by any chance?

Really, one of the best articles I've ever seen on the subject (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=119497#post119497) of water treatment for hikers and the actual threat posed by contamination is posted right here on WhiteBlaze. A bit technical here and there, but I think the author does a great job bringing good common sense to bear on the subject.

[hopefulhiker]

I allowed about 15 minutes with Aqua Mira.. did not get sick...

[whitefoot_hp]

It depends upon what you consider "considerable". None are five minutes or less.
i guess i could have clarified that originally. i am thinking thirty minutes or more as a considerable wait.

[whitefoot_hp]

This is what I use:
Katadyn Extream
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=37101015&memberId=12500226
my friends used that on our last hike. very convienent, only problem i remember is it can be a lot of sqeezing...

[FanaticFringer]

I have one but now use a Katadyn Hiker Pro. It did give me a good pump in my forearms though.:D



my friends used that on our last hike. very convienent, only problem i remember is it can be a lot of sqeezing...

[Peaks]

If you want an alternate for a filter, but without the wait for chemicals to work, consider the Steri-pen.

[ChinMusic]

The Steripen is an excellent alternative as long as the water is relatively clear. There is no wait time at all.

I carry the Steripen on my belt and can treat water on the fly, without even having to take off my pack.

[neo]

are there any chemical treatments for water that dont require a considerable wait in order for you to drink the water?



i prefer aqua mira:cool: neo


http://giardiaclub.com/aqua-mira.html

[ScottP]

There's the 'Immune System Just Drink' that requires no waiting...

[whitefoot_hp]

There's the 'Immune System Just Drink' that requires no waiting...

im growing more and more fond of this method.

[ChinMusic]

'Immune System Just Drink' works MOST of the time. But when it doesn't.......

I choose not to play RR.

[Critterman]

Actually, bleach isn't so hot for several reasons, the primary reason being that the concentration of the available chlorine starts declining as soon as the bottle is opened. Given that a hiker would start with a fairly small bottle and probably open it at least once a day the concentration of chlorine in that small container will drop fairly rapidly, rendering the "disinfection" offered by household bleach more an article of faith than science.

I have found this is to be false.

I am not a scientist and I don't play one on TV but I have been experimenting with using bleach as a water treatment. I use water test strips that detect chlorine levels and then try to disinfect water of different quality and in different condictions using bleach. In mid June I filled a half ounce amber glass dropper bottle with bleach from a new bottle. I have used it in my tests as well as on several day hikes and a backpacking trip since. I checked it again today and 5 months later 2 drops from that bottle with still produce 3 ppm of chlorine in a liter of water same as it did in June. That bottle has been opened many many times and been " in the field ".

What will cause bleach to fail as a disinfectant is sunlight and organic matter. The chlorine level in a liter of water with 2 drops bleach added will disappear within 5 minutes if in direct sunlight. Discolored water that has organic matter in it can take much more that 2 drops of bleach per liter to reach the 3ppm level making bleach unreliable unless you carry test strips with you and who wants to do that. At least that is what I have found in my tests.

[faarside]

Short answer - yes for bacteria and no for everything else.

Giardia and crpto take along time to kill. Bleach does a great job on bacteria in just a few minutes ( 1 -5 ) but takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 8 hours to kill giardia depending on the temperature, ph, cloudyness of the water. It won't kill crypto and it is not reliable for giardia. Iodine is even worse. The chlorine dioxide products work faster and more reliably for giardia but still take at least 30 minutes and 4 hours for crypto. They will kill bacteria within a few minutes.

Summed-up well. Generally. I would NOT trust any treatment that was less than 30 minutes. This is the reason I carry TWO water bottles (Nalgene wide mouth, 32oz., non-colored, Campmor Item#23234). One bottle I use for current period drinking, while the other one is treating my next 32 oz's of water. I use Katadyn Micropur MP-1 Purification Tablets (Campmor Item#81896), and I FOLLOW THE TREATMENT DIRECTIONS PRECISELY. To date, no problems.

Hope this help. Happy Trails!

[ezdoesit]

:) This is what I use,
http://www.steripen.com/testing.html :cool:

Remember it's mind over matter
If you don't mind it doesn't matter

[mountaineer]

I started with a Steripen, and it worked ok, but switched over to Aquamira after about a month and a half to save on weight (needs batteries too, don't forget) and pack space and reliability. It is a bit cumbersome and seemed kind of delicate with the glass tube - I was always afraid of it getting cracked in my pack (even with the plastic cover). Also, it did not like to work all the time in the colder weather (I met two other hikers using the steripen in the spring in the south and they had the same problem in colder weather).

[weary]

I allowed about 15 minutes with Aqua Mira.. did not get sick...
I do not treat most of my water from high ridgelines. did not get sick.

[Rift Zone]

Contamination is contamination. Trading possible biological contamination for certain chemical contamination is not what i consider to be a fair strategy. (after all, you are dumping things in your water to make it unsuitable for life!) To each their own.. That's just my 2 cents worth.