PDA

View Full Version : All New ALDHA CompanionLite- Free!



Sly
09-17-2007, 20:04
All you need to do is copy what you want from the from the FREE online addition and print! Wow! That's awesome! :p

Here's the link! http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm :)

I should add, if you like what you see and aren't a member yet, it's only $10 a year! ALDHA (http://www.aldha.org/)

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 20:06
All you need to do is copy what you want from the from the FREE online addition and print! Wow! That's awesome! :p

and how dumb of ALDHA. they don't make a dime. they should never bitch about being strapped for $$.

shelterbuilder
09-17-2007, 20:10
and how dumb of ALDHA. they don't make a dime. they should never bitch about being strapped for $$.

SHH! Don't tell them, or they may start charging!;)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 20:11
Put that info in an excel chart and then we'll talk. :D

Sly
09-17-2007, 20:20
Put that info in an excel chart and then we'll talk. :D

You're more computer savvy that I. ;)

Wolf, some people are going to buy the book, some aren't. ALDHA and the ATC are in business of promoting the trail. Free info is good.

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 20:20
How about we make a trimmed down Companion next moth FD and then send them the PDF for free and leth them decide what to do with it. I have some popcorn, a computer, Adobe Pro, and a bottle of bourbon.

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 20:23
You're more computer savvy that I. ;)

Wolf, some people are going to buy the book, some aren't. ALDHA and the ATC are in business of promoting the trail. Free info is good.

then Whiteblaze Pages shouldn't give any $$ to ATC or ALDHA. obviously they don't need it.

Sly
09-17-2007, 20:23
have some popcorn, a computer, Adobe Pro, and a bottle of bourbon.

Ummm, popcorn and bourbon, I'll help! ;)

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 20:25
Well damn Sly, you are invited too. We are going to have a WhiteBlaze: Companion trail maintenance party. A couple of relocations and some trimming. We can get that sucker down to 100 pages. I guar-un-tee it.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 20:26
How about we make a trimmed down Companion next moth FD and then send them the PDF for free and let them decide what to do with it. I have some popcorn, a computer, Adobe Pro, and a bottle of bourbon.:D I'll bring some root beer and you're on.

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 20:28
:D I'll bring some root beer and you're on.
Oh common...

Once a year is still good. Especially when you have the snips out. Reduces the inhibitions and make you more likely to cut. Just ask Lorena. :eek:

Nightwalker
09-17-2007, 20:34
Put that info in an excel chart and then we'll talk. :D

If you want a copy of it in chart format, let me know. I've already done it, using just the data. I'm going hiking a couple of days, but PM me and I'll send you a copy.

I'm sorry about getting P.O.'d at you earlier today. I handle chronic pain terribly, and that's where I'm at right now. I should have sense enough to stay off-line during these attacks, but sense has never been one of my strong points. :(

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 20:38
I did the same thing in excel. I've already trimmed it down to 102 pages and think it could go smaller.

A suggestion to the head editor though - limit any town description to 1000 characters or less (not words). It would keep the listings short and to the point, not the long rambling descriptions they are becoming.

Nightwalker
09-17-2007, 20:56
I did the same thing in excel. I've already trimmed it down to 102 pages and think it could go smaller.

A suggestion to the head editor though - limit any town description to 1000 characters or less (not words). It would keep the listings short and to the point, not the long rambling descriptions they are becoming.

I can't find mine just this minute, but it's much shorter than that. When I find it, I'll send it to you and see if you want to post it here. I only did the data pages, not town descriptions.

Rene has asked for a copy, and I can send one to anyone else as well. I'm also currently working on an elevation profile of the whole trail for someone else, and just can't wait to see how that one comes out.

I've been making maps for 7 years now, and I'm finally making a little money on it. I'd love to get to where I can make a living on this so I could tell Uncle Sam to just keep that check. T'would be nice to actually feel useful to society, ya know?

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 21:03
Well when I give a lenght - it included my mail drop list, general time line, and some other "fluff" plus the way it layed out was MINE. I printed it on waterproof paper - a whole 26 sheets total by God - 4 pages to the sheet; and this is without trimming the town and shelter "fluff".

Sly
09-17-2007, 21:14
then Whiteblaze Pages shouldn't give any $$ to ATC or ALDHA. obviously they don't need it.

It's a dog eat dog world. :eek:

Sly
09-17-2007, 21:17
Well when I give a lenght - it included my mail drop list, general time line, and some other "fluff" plus the way it layed out was MINE. I printed it on waterproof paper - a whole 26 sheets total by God - 4 pages to the sheet; and this is without trimming the town and shelter "fluff".

Yeah a friend scanned and "shrunk" the CDT town and trail guides so the pages fit in a quart size ziplock. Pretty nice.

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 21:20
See, despite all your neysaying at those that have suggestions for the Companion - it can be done. ;)

BTW, seriously, I was thinking about this some today. I imagine the reason the Companion stays exactly the same way is because a system is in place and no one has gone through all the trouble to set something else up. It is one thing to complain about it, it is another to spend 40 hours going through the Companion entries and reducing everything to small package and giving it to ALDHA editors to work with.

map man
09-17-2007, 21:21
The edition of the Companion I have is from 2005 and I like one change in particular that I see they've made in the last two years from looking at the on-line 2007 version. It's got the tables now with the Data Book information (and I like it that it's got even more elevation data than my 2005 Data Book). I now see what people are talking about when they say they find themselves flipping a few pages to get from the text description of a town or hostel back to the equivalent place in the table. I wonder if it might be worth it for the ALDHA to try to intersperse the tables and text so that the text info is always within just a page or two of the matching place in the table.

I wonder why they got rid of the spiral binding on the paper copies? Seems like the spiral binding made it easier to keep the book open to the page you wanted and made it easier to rip individual pages out if that is your preference. I suppose the spiral binding made it bulkier.

I always thought that when the day came when I started down the AT that I would travel with the Data Book with my own custom adaptations written/crammed into any place in the book I could find, and then tear the pages out and laminate them to make them waterproof (that's what I do with my custom made cheat sheet I made for myself for the Superior Hiking Trail). The Companion, though, looks to be evolving toward being more user friendly and useful as years go by, so maybe by the time I get to the AT I'll be able to use that as my base document and not have to worry so much about leaving out info that I might think ahead of time I don't need, but later find out I wish I had.

(I've been following, but refraining from commenting on, the discussions about the WhiteBlaze Pages because I'm a bit conflicted about it. However, making people aware of the free on-line Companion, and trying to make the information in the Companion as useful and accurate as possible, is a good thing, I think, regardless of whether WhiteBlaze sponsors/creates a similar product.)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 21:23
::: Dino nominates SgtRock for President. He doesn't snivel, he just gets 'er done :::

Sly
09-17-2007, 21:28
Oh, I'm sure it can be done by the ALDHA/ATC, but I'm not sure this type "format" has even been suggested to the Editors. If they don't like the sample, I'm sure you'll be able to use it.

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 21:28
Yes well I have been VERY serious in the past years about wanting to help ALDHA with the Companion in some way or another. If not an on-line database, then a trimmed down, "ultralight" version of what they already make is what I could (and I am perfectly willing to starting tomorrow) do for them. I would even put it into a nice PDF format and make a system where re-locations would be a snap to add into it and let software update the mileage for the entire trail without needing to re-write the entire guide.

BUT I would have rules - like 1000 characters or less per town entry. In my experience things like this is where the Companion is getting bloated. BUT, if things continue the way they are going, you will have numbers for real-estate agents in each town in case you want to buy some property to open a hostel while you are in each trail town.

TJ aka Teej
09-17-2007, 21:32
I wonder why they got rid of the spiral binding on the paper copies?
Originally hikers wanted the spiral binding, so that's what they got. Later, hikers told us they didn't like it, and so that's why it's gone now. Basically that's why ATC asked ALDHA to put together their official guidebook- they valued the input of hikers.

Sly
09-17-2007, 21:32
I agree, many of the town services could just be on the map without a description or a bare bones description.

map man
09-17-2007, 21:38
Yes, Teej, I'm sure this is an instance (to spiral bind or not) of just not being able to please everybody. It sure looks to me that ALDHA is a grass roots organization that stays in close touch with both members and hiker non-members. And thank you for the work you do field editing for them.

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 21:46
Originally hikers wanted the spiral binding, so that's what they got. Later, hikers told us they didn't like it, and so that's why it's gone now. Basically that's why ATC asked ALDHA to put together their official guidebook- they valued the input of hikers.
Actually I could see this happening very easy. I remember looking at one in 2001 (I think) and thinking while it was a cool idea, it would end up shredding zip-locks that I carry guides in. I have a 1970-something AT guide for GA/TN/NC that is held together with wing nuts and bolts where you can disassemble it and carry parts easily. I don't think wing nuts are the solution, but something that comes apart and is easy to align with the maps is a good idea IMO. Forget 30 mile sections - it should alight by map sheets.

I agree, many of the town services could just be on the map without a description or a bare bones description.
I agree. Think of some town descriptions that tell you that a KFC is available and the hours. Geez! An entry that says "numerous fast food restaurants" and a small town map included.

But...

Here is something else I thought about while in Hot Springs this weekend: Hot Springs has a map too. Now think about that. Hot Springs has one main road and everything is on that road you need. If you are walking through town you probably plan to spend 2-16 hours in town and if you were only wanting a re-supply, some gear, and a chance to do some laundry you could find it all on Main Street Hot Springs. Yet this town gets a map. If you plan to spend more than 8 hours in town you can probably find it on your own. Think about it.

and another thing...

A place like Gatlinburg where things are spread out and people are likely to want to go (Lord knows why, I avoid the place like leprosy) where you would want a map to find things doesn't get one.

It seems that there is no unity of effort or plan behind how towns are listed in the Companion. It seems that each town editor is left to decide how to describe a town without any plan to actually do it efficiently.

And that is the view from my foxhole.

TJ aka Teej
09-17-2007, 21:48
Yes, Teej, I'm sure this is an instance (to spiral bind or not) of just not being able to please everybody. It sure looks to me that ALDHA is a grass roots organization that stays in close touch with both members and hiker non-members. And thank you for the work you do field editing for them.
Thank you for the kind words!

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 21:53
Wow, Rock, these are some fantastic ideas.

TJ aka Teej
09-17-2007, 21:54
I agree, many of the town services could just be on the map without a description or a bare bones description.
Cutting down on the info in towns would mean cutting out some of the stores/hotels etc, implying that we favor some over others. Personally, I liked when the Maret's Philosopher's Guide would just mention one or two 'hiker approved' places. I think the mega-listings are here to stay, same way the notion that the Companion is for home planning while the DataBook is for taking hiking will continue.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 21:58
Rock, from what TJ is saying it appears ALDHA may not be interested in your guidebook. If that happens, any chance we mere mortals who have no idea what is good for us could get copies of it?

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 22:01
Cutting down on the info in towns would mean cutting out some of the stores/hotels etc, implying that we favor some over others. Personally, I liked when the Maret's Philosopher's Guide would just mention one or two 'hiker approved' places. I think the mega-listings are here to stay, same way the notion that the Companion is for home planning while the DataBook is for taking hiking will continue.

i hiked a few years with maret's guide. no maps were needed. you just asked a local where stuff was. pretty simple. maps aren't needed. especially in small towns like damascus and hot springs.

TJ aka Teej
09-17-2007, 22:05
Rock, from what TJ is saying it appears ALDHA may not be interested in your guidebook. If that happens, any chance we mere mortals who have no idea what is good for us could get copies of it?
FD, I'm not sure why you feel the need to phrase things so negatively. As just one section volunteer out of many, I can tell you that the Companion is very willing to hear from hikers about their wants and needs regarding the book. Even from "mere mortals"... :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 22:09
FD, I'm not sure why you feel the need to phrase things so negatively. As just one section volunteer out of many, I can tell you that the Companion is very willing to hear from hikers about their wants and needs regarding the book. Even from "mere mortals"... :rolleyes:

the Companion needs to stop allowing free downloads

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 22:15
C.... I think the mega-listings are here to stay, same way the notion that the Companion is for home planning while the DataBook is for taking hiking will continue.This sounds like ALDHA does not want to consider producing a work that is in-between the two even if it is what some hikers want. Rock is offering an in-between and I want to get a copy. If ALDHA doesn't offer what I need or want, I will get elsewhere. Simple market economics. Please refrain from deciding if I am joking or being negative as you are obviously not good at telling the difference.

Now back to the perfectly civil discussion that was going on before you interjected that :rolleyes:

emerald
09-17-2007, 22:16
Wolf, if you think ALDHA should use The Companion to generate revenue, how do you propose this revenue be spent?

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 22:19
Wolf, if you think ALDHA should use The Companion to generate revenue, how do you propose this revenue be spent?

on small, struggling maintaining clubs

Sly
09-17-2007, 22:22
This sounds like ALDHA does not want to consider producing a work that is in-between the two even if it is what some hikers want.

Geez, just because Teej gave an opinion doesn't mean it's official ALDHA policy.

Lone Wolf
09-17-2007, 22:23
Geez, just because Teej gave an opinion doesn't mean it's official ALDHA policy.

yeah really.:D

SGT Rock
09-17-2007, 22:24
well I would allow free downloads, but whatever...

As to towns - I would limit the characters per entry and let the town editor figure out what is important to say and how to best describe the town in limited listings. Right now we get descriptive of things that take us WAY beyond that. As I understand it this sort of limit isn't unusual in the publishing world where editors give writers limits on how much to write for a piece. The inverse of that is what we have now which seems to be some writers trying to describe the **** out of a town most people only plan to be in for less than 18 hours. Think about that.

So instead of a page and a half to blather on about this town - the writer gets 1000 characters to abbreviate and condense to the essence of hiker important information for a town what they are going to say.

Now to shelter listings. From my experience there are some editors that take 5-10 lines to describe a three sided wooden shelter. Think about that. Answer three questions: Where is the water, does it have a privy, and how big is in in capacity. If I plan to stay there I will find out more info when I get there.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-17-2007, 22:25
Geez, just because Teej gave an opinion doesn't mean it's official ALDHA policy.Really, Sly, that is good to hear. I'd really rather purchase the guide Rock describes from ALDHA, but if it isn't offered, I can't.

Frosty
09-18-2007, 11:49
Originally hikers wanted the spiral binding, so that's what they got. Later, hikers told us they didn't like it, and so that's why it's gone now. I think what happens is that when people don't like something, they complain. When they like it, mostly they just use it without bothering to speak up.

I have written many manufacturers to complain about one of their designs, but only twice have I written a manufacturer to say their gear was great (Gossamer Gear and Henry Shires Tarptents).

So I can see where an organization relying on customer input could be whipsawed back and forth a bit.

TJ aka Teej
09-18-2007, 12:41
the Companion needs to stop allowing free downloads
I know a few volunteers who might stop volunteering if the information isn't available to hikers free of charge. I'm one of them.

TJ aka Teej
09-18-2007, 13:02
Cutting down on the info in towns would mean cutting out some of the stores/hotels etc, implying that we favor some over others. Personally, I liked when the Maret's Philosopher's Guide would just mention one or two 'hiker approved' places. I think the mega-listings are here to stay, same way the notion that the Companion is for home planning while the DataBook is for taking hiking will continue.

This sounds like ALDHA does not want to consider producing a work that is in-between the two even if it is what some hikers want.
FD, what makes you think you know what ALDHA will/is considering for the future? I sure have no idea, I just do my section and send it in. Have you attended any Companion meetings? Coresponded with any of the ALDHA members in charge of Companion design? Which service providers do you suggest cutting out of future Companions, and what parts of the DataBook should be discarded for your hypothetical "in-between" work?

If ALDHA doesn't offer what I need or want, I will get elsewhere.
I feel the same way about gear stores. Tell us what, if any, changes have you personally proposed to the folks in charge of the Companion that have been rejected, FD? And this time, are you at least looking at the current issue?

SGT Rock
09-18-2007, 13:20
FD, what makes you think you know what ALDHA will/is considering for the future? I sure have no idea, I just do my section and send it in. Have you attended any Companion meetings? Coresponded with any of the ALDHA members in charge of Companion design? Which service providers do you suggest cutting out of future Companions, and what parts of the DataBook should be discarded for your hypothetical "in-between" work?

Actually I am prepared to answer this. First off, unless a resturaunt offers something special like an AYCE, there is not a need to list every possible place to eat in town. If I walk into a town I can probably find KFC, Hardees, BK and others which are hitting some of the guide entries but not others - apparently some town editors are different from others. Same for things like ATMs and such - unless it is hard to find one in a town for some reason, they are everywhere these days. There are more ATMs than Pay Phones.

Next, though I love some places and don't like others nearly as much, devoting a paragraph worth of data to telling everyone how great one hostel or resturaunt is takes up space for what is sort of a subjective opinion. Unless there is a need to warn someone about something, leave it out.

As for town info about places like Damascus being the friendliest town yadda yadda yadda, let me know if there is anything special about the town that I need to wory about if I am there for 18 hours (10 of which I will probably be sleeping) and leave it at that.

Next, there is not a need to list EVERY place in town for some of these towns. Where I see a bunch of hotels and hostels then a listing for a hotel that costs $100+ a night I wonder why the hell they would include that place.

Finally there are some things which are sort of redundant IMO. There could be a standard abbreviation for Short term supply and long term supply. Then you could group them instead of listing them sepperatly if possible:
LTSupply - Food Lion, Food City, Kroger;STSupply - CircleK KwikyMart.


I feel the same way about gear stores. Tell us what, if any, changes have you personally proposed to the folks in charge of the Companion that have been rejected, FD? And this time, are you at least looking at the current issue?
Actually my proposal is to go ahead and make a trimmed down version on PDF and send it to whoever wants it at ALDHA and see what they want to do with it. I figure getting the ball moving in a voulenteer organization sometimes means voulenteering to start a project and see it through.

TJ aka Teej
09-18-2007, 13:39
Super ideas, Rock! As I said way back up the thread aways:

Personally, I liked when the Maret's Philosopher's Guide would just mention one or two 'hiker approved' places.

Next, there is not a need to list EVERY place in town for some of these towns. Where I see a bunch of hotels and hostels then a listing for a hotel that costs $100+ a night I wonder why the hell they would include that place.
I know! I added Greenville ME a few Companions ago, but only list a very few restaurants and motels out of the 40+ establishments due to rates and other considerations. I doubt any of the $180 B&Bs want the smelly hiker trade anyway :D

I figure getting the ball moving in a voulenteer organization sometimes means voulenteering to start a project and see it through.
Ayup.

The Solemates
09-18-2007, 18:13
i got my data down to a page. barely readable, but its one page.