Wingfoots book

[Dirty Harry]

Im shure this has been asked many of times, but when does the 08 winfoot book come out, and where can i get it. Takin off in march and that is the only piece of gear I need. thanks, Dirty 05 GA<ME

[DavidNH]

Im shure this has been asked many of times, but when does the 08 winfoot book come out, and where can i get it. Takin off in march and that is the only piece of gear I need. thanks, Dirty 05 GA<ME

There will not be an 08 edition of Wingfoot's thru hiker handbook. He is ceasing publication with the 07 edition.


Please no comentary folks.. we have already hacked this to death.
David

[Lone Wolf]

Im shure this has been asked many of times, but when does the 08 winfoot book come out, and where can i get it. Takin off in march and that is the only piece of gear I need. thanks, Dirty 05 GA<ME

it don't exist no more. go to www.whiteblazepages.net for the newest and best handbook or go to www.aldha.org for a free download

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Wingfoot closed down his web site and cease publication several months ago. There will be no 2008 book. May I suggest you look at the ALDHA Companion (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm) and see if it will meet your needs. It is available in printed form from the ALDHA web site (http://www.aldha.org/companyn.htm)

[Dirty Harry]

Actually: http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/hb_2008edition.html


bUT

[SGT Rock]

So he has a 2007 as his last edition. BUT there are "qualified individuals" for 2008 to continue on. I wonder how much the bidding was to become "qualified"

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I am glad to see the resource will continue. Hope it works well for you. Will you be keeping an on-line journal?

[Lone Wolf]

bUT

get www.whiteblazepages.net book instead for cheaper

[Dirty Harry]

Actually: http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/hb_2008edition.html

but i think i will try to pick up the 07 instead thanks for the input, so does that mean the 08 "revised with the new author" is going to be a hack job or what?

[SGT Rock]

Actually I happen to know what qualified means based on some e-mail traffic. It really means someone that wanted to spend about a new car in qualifications.

But anyone can write a guide. Who needs to spend a car to get started?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Think I would wait until the new WhileBlaze Pages has been out a year and see what sort of reviews it gets. Too many loose ends on that one.

If I was thru-hiking this year, I'd go with the Companion. It sounds like Wingy did the updates for the 2008 edition of his book, so it would prabably be OK as well.

[Appalachian Tater]

Actually: http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/hb_2008edition.html

but i think i will try to pick up the 07 instead thanks for the input, so does that mean the 08 "revised with the new author" is going to be a hack job or what?

You would have to ask Mr. Bruce.

[Sly]

WF is back, incognito! :D How many guidebooks now? :-?

[Appalachian Tater]

Actually I happen to know what qualified means based on some e-mail traffic. It really means someone that wanted to spend about a new car in qualifications.

But anyone can write a guide. Who needs to spend a car to get started?

Ironically, most of the purchase price would have to be written off as "goodwill". LOL.

[Dirty Harry]

my o5 is still up, ive gotten lazy, and my aprroach for this thru hike, is going to be super lade back, with minimal planning, but ill still be packin light and hiking miles, thats how i like it. I wonder if this book is any good, 'white blaze pages' I think I might stick with wingfoots any way. This might be an interesting year with all these new data books floating around

[SGT Rock]

Based on what was the asking price, chances are he will tell you it is a great guide no matter what the actualy quality is since it comes with AC and cruise control at that price LOL.

[Dirty Harry]

never liked the companion, personally.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

How many guidebooks now? :-?Too many for them all to make it. But competition is a good thing.

[Dirty Harry]

sgt rock i see your the first to start a journal
i was going to comment but couldnt figure it out

[Lone Wolf]

never liked the companion, personally.

me either but i help update it

[Appalachian Tater]

double post again

[Appalachian Tater]

my o5 is still up, ive gotten lazy, and my aprroach for this thru hike, is going to be super lade back, with minimal planning, but ill still be packin light and hiking miles, thats how i like it. I wonder if this book is any good, 'white blaze pages' I think I might stick with wingfoots any way. This might be an interesting year with all these new data books floating around

If your aprroach is going to be super lade back, with minimal planning, and packin light, there are plenty of people out there with guidebooks. The trail is blazed, you don't really need any maps or guides unless you get lost.

[Dirty Harry]

how is damascus treating you L wolf

[SGT Rock]

sgt rock i see your the first to start a journal
i was going to comment but couldnt figure it out
You are not the only one, this is one reason I have been thinking of moving to trailjournals.com

[Lone Wolf]

how is damascus treating you L wolf

considering my yankee roots, not bad

[SGT Rock]

I hear the elected him village drunk.

[Dirty Harry]

ya I here ya, but with my book i can stay right around 22 Ibls- 1 litre/5 days food, and thats good enough for me, thats with a Mystery ranch pack as well. Gota have some comfort in the mix.

[Dirty Harry]

Ya trail journals isnt bad, im on here for the forums not the journals, you should check mine out, if it is till up, trailjournals.com/riverjunction

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I decided to keep my section hiking journal on trailjournals after the journal testing here was finished (I was one of the testers). The journals were just too hard to use. I have a degree in computer science and I couldn't figure out how to use the software :eek:

[Lone Wolf]

I hear the elected him village drunk.

you been hangin out with your boy wanderer too much. always assuming i'm drinkin:cool:

[SGT Rock]

I've maintaned the software on this site and mine and find the journals here a pain in the ass. Don't feel bad FD. They look like a forum instead of a journal and are not even as easy to use.

[Sly]

Too many for them all to make it. But competition is a good thing.

Yeah, no one makes any money but the hikers get to pick and choose.

[SGT Rock]

you been hangin out with your boy wanderer too much. always assuming i'm drinkin:cool:
You don't have to actualy be drunk to be "the drunk", but at least you can look down on the town idiot.

[Nightwalker]

So he has a 2007 as his last edition. BUT there are "qualified individuals" for 2008 to continue on. I wonder how much the bidding was to become "qualified"

How much you got? :)

[Dirty Harry]

I had so much data and crap printed out for my hike, mail drops for 3 months, and an actuall day by day plan, all that was thrown out the window, i had a celebration once my mail drops where done on the trail, not this time around, no plans!

[Dirty Harry]

wow this thread is movin
I cant keep up sorry for the delay

[Lone Wolf]

I had so much data and crap printed out for my hike, mail drops for 3 months, and an actuall day by day plan, all that was thrown out the window, i had a celebration once my mail drops where done on the trail, not this time around, no plans!

then you don't need any handbook. earl didn't

[Nightwalker]

Too many for them all to make it. But competition is a good thing.

Competition, in this case, will probably make for better products all around.

Then again, there are people like me who buy all of the books every year. There are probably a few of us in that category. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

[SGT Rock]

How much you got? :)
Not enoght. I bought a new car in 2002 and spent less than the asking price - and it has AC, car alarm, cruise control, power windows, ABS, dual air-bags, automatic, and other cool features.

At least with that though I can drive to the trail head and hike. WF couldn't even do that for the last 14 years despite living in a trail town for 5 of them.

[Appalachian Tater]

Neither did Grandma Gatewood. She didn't even need a tent or a backpack.

[Nightwalker]

you been hangin out with your boy wanderer too much. always assuming i'm drinkin:cool:

What's wrong with a little drinkin'? :)

[SGT Rock]

Or a stove. Lord protect us.

[Lone Wolf]

Neither did Grandma Gatewood. She didn't even need a tent or a backpack.

just a big thumb and a note from her pastor

[SGT Rock]

Or a weenie nalgen bottle.

[Appalachian Tater]

Competition, in this case, will probably make for better products all around.

Then again, there are people like me who buy all of the books every year. There are probably a few of us in that category. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Looks like they're going to be four next year, at least, plus the data base here and the ALDHA Companion on line and all of the individual guides from the trail clubs.

There's only a few thousand thru-hike attempters a year, hopefully a lot of section hikers, day hikers, and peak-baggers will buy some of them.

[Skidsteer]

just a big thumb and a note from her pastor

Heh heh....:p

[Lone Wolf]

WF couldn't even do that for the last 14 years despite living in a trail town for 5 of them.

too many late nights watching Lawrence of Arabia with young hikers

[Appalachian Tater]

Shelters suck, hiking poles are for weenies. Don't need no fancy shoes, neither, it's just walking.

[Panzer1]

more drama from the original drama queen.

I'm sure his web site will be back online soon.

Panzer

[SGT Rock]

NO! Not the second comming! OK, actually it would be the 4th, but who is counting?

[Appalachian Tater]

more drama from the original drama queen.

I'm sure his web site will be back online soon.

Panzer

It's been sold, plus hikerjournals.com, so odds are, yes, it will be online as soon as the rest of the stuff has been sold.

[Lone Wolf]

NO! Not the second comming! OK, actually it would be the 4th, but who is counting?

christ was a queen?

[SGT Rock]

It's been sold, plus hikerjournals.com, so odds are, yes, it will be online as soon as the rest of the stuff has been sold.
How many loaded SUVs does one man need?

[warraghiyagey]

too many late nights watching Lawrence of Arabia with young hikers

If a hiker bursts out in laughter at almost midnight and nobody hears him . . . well, that was funny.

[The Weasel]

Actually: http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/hb_2008edition.html


bUT

Why do I feel scammed the same way I did when he did the '00 "vaporware" edition? I'm sorry, folks, but this just sounds cheesy beyond words.

The Weasel

[Appalachian Tater]

In the meantime, the 2007 edition can be used for planning your 2008 hike
and then left with your support crew back home as a reliable reference
during your thru-hike, so order now while copies are still available.

Until the new edition is released in January, and while supplies last*,
you can order a 2007 edition (updated with list of changes reported by
2007 thru-hikers) using PayPal or your credit card - click here (http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/order_2008.html).

Or, if you prefer, you can purchase by mail with a check or money order
made payable to Dan Bruce in the amount of $22.50 U.S.

* only a few boxes of Handbooks are left now!

[SGT Rock]

Actually the amount of cheese involved has a monitary value. Just e-mail him and he will happily quote you the required "contribution" to own his cheese.

[warraghiyagey]

Why do I feel scammed the same way I did when he did the '00 "vaporware" edition? I'm sorry, folks, but this just sounds cheesy beyond words.

The Weasel

Actually that's fine. Surely WF would frown on the concept of packing in cheese. Now he can have as much as he wants.:)

[Lone Wolf]

Actually that's fine. Surely WF would frown on the concept of packing in cheese. Now he can have as much as he wants.:)

how bout fudge

[SGT Rock]

Naw, fudge is hard for him to get.

[Appalachian Tater]

L. Wolf, you certainly seem to be very interested in the whole concept of brown blazing.

[warraghiyagey]

how bout fudge

I'm sure he wouldn't approve of packing said fudge on the trail either. But as I say he's off now and can do as he likes.

[Lone Wolf]

L. Wolf, you certainly seem to be very interested in the whole concept of brown blazing.

what is brown blazing? i've hiked trails that are old AT where the white blazes are browned out. that what you mean?

[warraghiyagey]

what is brown blazing? i've hiked trails that are old AT where the white blazes are browned out. that what you mean?

I think he means the intensive 'tracker' method where you follow the cat holes.

[Shutterbug]

... I wonder how much the bidding was to become "qualified"

I don't know who was the successful bidder, or how much was eventually paid, but it was probably more than you would guess. I offered him more than I thought the copy rights were really worth. When he rejected my offer, he told me that he had an offer that was several times more than I offered.

He also told me, "... I would not want to sell the copyright to anyone who did not share and uphold the ATC definition of the Appalachian Trail experience (see page 28 of the 2007 edition of the Handbook), and who was not committed to a "serving the hiker first" philosophy."

I didn't take offense to his comment. I understood it as saying that even if I bid the highest price, he would want assurances from me about how it would be used. I dropped out of the bidding when the price got higher than I was willing to pay.

[Nightwalker]

There's only a few thousand thru-hike attempters a year, hopefully a lot of section hikers, day hikers, and peak-baggers will buy some of them.

Most of the money isn't spent by thrus and thru attempters. Sectioneers and dreamers have a lot more spendin' loot to throw around.

[Sly]

There's only a few thousand thru-hike attempters a year, hopefully a lot of section hikers, day hikers, and peak-baggers will buy some of them.

The number of thru-hike attempts has dwindled since 2000, the peak year, when there may have been a few thousand. Now it's about 1300, which includes Southbounders.

The Stats... (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm)

[Sly]

Most of the money isn't spent by thrus and thru attempters. Sectioneers and dreamers have a lot more spendin' loot to throw around.

And you know this how? :-?

[Nightwalker]

And you know this how? :-?

All of the people that I see in stores spending money. All of the people that I talk to on the trail. And just wild guessing.

But you're right. I don't actually KNOW, I'm just going by the limited amount that I've experienced personally. Sorry about that. :o

[The Weasel]

How many loaded SUVs does one man need?
And you guys kvetch about lawyers? Whole thing was a scam. PT Barnum would be proud of him. "Made ya look!"

What a putz.

The Weasel

[Sly]

LOL... Not a problem.

[Lone Wolf]

And you know this how? :-?

i know it by the phone calls i get from folks who want shuttles. they are willing to pay, no questions asked. stay in b&bs and eat good. thru-hiker types are notoriously cheap sumbitches. i won't shuttle or slackpack them anymore

[Appalachian Tater]

ATC estimates 3-4 million people hike a portion of the trail each year. Unless the 1,300 thru-hikers are really big spenders, and the 3-4 million real cheapskates, it is very likely that the "sectioneers and dreamers" spend a little more than the thru-hikers. Maybe all the section hikers are eating off the bus cart and snacking on stale popcorn, like some of the thru-slackers.

[Appalachian Tater]

And you guys kvetch about lawyers? Whole thing was a scam. PT Barnum would be proud of him. "Made ya look!"

What a putz.

The Weasel

Hey, The Weasel, for five minutes nobody was giving you a hard time and you just can't stand it, can you? LOL.

[Lone Wolf]

4 more posts, i'll be at 10,000. w tf do i get?

[warraghiyagey]

i know it by the phone calls i get from folks who want shuttles. they are willing to pay, no questions asked. stay in b&bs and eat good. thru-hiker types are notoriously cheap sumbitches. i won't shuttle or slackpack them anymore

That and the fact that for every thru I meet on the trail i meet at least a dozen that are enjoying the section they have found time for. Although my ratio doesn't match Wolf's I think if you've spent time on the trail the numbers would bear this out.

[Appalachian Tater]

4 more posts, i'll be at 10,000. w tf do i get?

No, the speedometer only goes to 9,999. Then it resets to zero. Sorry.

[The Weasel]

Hey, The Weasel, for five minutes nobody was giving you a hard time and you just can't stand it, can you? LOL.

No, I just wanted to bow before the Master. Wingpod is not merely a scammer, but the worst scammer ever to hit the AT. This is just unbelieveable. Massive cheddar, even roquefort.

TW

[Lone Wolf]

a guy with dyslexia walks into a bra...

[attroll]

sgt rock i see your the first to start a journal
i was going to comment but couldnt figure it out
That is because Rock created his journals while they were still in the beta stages and some modules were not in existence yet. He needs to add the guest book to his page.

[attroll]

So who was the sucker that paid $25,000 for the copyrights to Wingfoots journals.

I think it is Wingfoot in incognito personally because I know for a fact that Wingfoot has been calling around.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

4 more posts, i'll be at 10,000. w tf do i get?A life - can't wait until I get mine :D

[SGT Rock]

Well actually I do have the guestbook turned on http://www.whiteblaze.net/journals/guestbook.php?modid=15&masteruserid=5&catid=13. But anyway...

The only person that would be willing to pay what he was asking would probably also agree to "uphold the definition of a thru-hike as seen on page 28, paragraph 3, line 6" as well as name their kid Dan, name the dog Wingy, only live in a white house (non-belivers live in blue and yellow ones), never own a cell phone, refuse to feed people along the AT any time or any where, never own a dog, never own a gun, and only vote democrat, and just about any other trivially bizzar WingFoot rule he would put in to place. For the price he was charging you would have to be such a mind numb ninny to pay that much - and for the extra crap that he was adding to the rules for his buyer (if this part is really true) then you would probably be a really big ninny to boot.

[Tabasco]

Hiyas Dirty Harry!! Stayed at Woods Hole with you and Stinkfoot in 05. Hope you have a great hike in 08.

[minnesotasmith]

The only person that would be willing to pay what he was asking would probably also agree to "uphold the definition of a thru-hike as seen on page 28, paragraph 3, line 6" as well as name their kid Dan, name the dog Wingy, only live in a white house (non-belivers live in blue and yellow ones), never own a cell phone, refuse to feed people along the AT any time or any where, never own a dog, never own a gun, and only vote democrat, and just about any other trivially bizzar WingFoot rule he would put in to place. For the price he was charging you would have to be such a mind numb ninny to pay that much - and for the extra crap that he was adding to the rules for his buyer (if this part is really true) then you would probably be a really big ninny to boot.

This is one of the most hilarious posts I've ever seen on WB, and was by a moderator at that. From I've heard of him, I can just see Wingfoot insisting upon all these extra requirements (and thinking they were reasonable, just as Elmer thinks being a PC Marxist is somehow normal).

Thanks a bunch for sharing this witticism with us.

[The Weasel]

Well actually I do have the guestbook turned on http://www.whiteblaze.net/journals/guestbook.php?modid=15&masteruserid=5&catid=13. But anyway...

The only person that would be willing to pay what he was asking would probably also agree to "uphold the definition of a thru-hike as seen on page 28, paragraph 3, line 6" as well as name their kid Dan, name the dog Wingy, only live in a white house (non-belivers live in blue and yellow ones), never own a cell phone, refuse to feed people along the AT any time or any where, never own a dog, never own a gun, and only vote democrat, and just about any other trivially bizzar WingFoot rule he would put in to place. For the price he was charging you would have to be such a mind numb ninny to pay that much - and for the extra crap that he was adding to the rules for his buyer (if this part is really true) then you would probably be a really big ninny to boot.

The only person who fits that description has the initials "DB". I'm willing to lay a modest bet (one taker only, $5 maximum) that there really isn't a "buyer," and that within a month or so there will be some explanation about why "the book" is back with WF doing it.

The Weasel

[Appalachian Tater]

Whoever it is must be expecting to rely on hikers for assistance in keeping it up-to-date or willing to change the format to rely on ATC data. That should be a pretty big clue.

[attroll]

Well actually I do have the guestbook turned on http://www.whiteblaze.net/journals/guestbook.php?modid=15&masteruserid=5&catid=13.

I think what is confusing is that you do not have the module install on the actual journal page so that when people read your journal they do not see it unless they go back to your front page and look at your listing you created. Like I said you were a beta tester and things have changed since we started beta testing and your pages are not set up like the default pages for the users are now. The guest book is set up on the actual journal page a default module. As seen here http://www.whiteblaze.net/journals/showentry.php?e=1&catid=4&entryuserid=8.

Just trying to explain why your are different then the other users now.

[TJ aka Teej]

Im shure this has been asked many of times, but when does the 08 winfoot book come out, and where can i get it. Takin off in march and that is the only piece of gear I need. thanks, Dirty 05 GA<ME


Actually: http://www.trailplace.com/farewell/hb/hb_208edition.html



I think I might stick with wingfoots any way.


never liked the companion, personally.

:rolleyes:

[Shutterbug]

The only person who fits that description has the initials "DB". I'm willing to lay a modest bet (one taker only, $5 maximum) that there really isn't a "buyer," and that within a month or so there will be some explanation about why "the book" is back with WF doing it.

The Weasel

My guess is that the copy rights were bought by an organization rather than an individual. I would also guess that the organization intends to profit primarily from including advertising in the guide rather than from the actual sales. Would you buy a guide that included ads?

[Tin Man]

Would you buy a guide that included ads?



Only if the ads were full of helium.

When are they going to make a lighter than air backpack?

[SGT Rock]

I think what is confusing is that you do not have the module install on the actual journal page so that when people read your journal they do not see it unless they go back to your front page and look at your listing you created. Like I said you were a beta tester and things have changed since we started beta testing and your pages are not set up like the default pages for the users are now. The guest book is set up on the actual journal page a default module. As seen here http://www.whiteblaze.net/journals/showentry.php?e=1&catid=4&entryuserid=8.

Just trying to explain why your are different then the other users now.
There are no other users now.

[Appalachian Tater]

My guess is that the copy rights were bought by an organization rather than an individual. I would also guess that the organization intends to profit primarily from including advertising in the guide rather than from the actual sales. Would you buy a guide that included ads?



Ads would be a big negative. I would still buy the best book to meet my needs, though. Ads would be less intrusive if they were on separate pages rather than imbedded in the text--that way they wouldn't have to go along for the hike.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of trail-related stuff is not done primarily for financial reasons, such as guidebooks, some hostels, etc. There is no reason at this point to assume that the purchaser plans to make a profit at all.

[Creek Dancer]

Ads in the form of discount coupons for hiker type goods and services could be useful. And yes, the ads should be separate from the data text so that you could dispose of them if you want to.

[The Weasel]

Ads would be a big negative. I would still buy the best book to meet my needs, though. Ads would be less intrusive if they were on separate pages rather than imbedded in the text--that way they wouldn't have to go along for the hike.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of trail-related stuff is not done primarily for financial reasons, such as guidebooks, some hostels, etc. There is no reason at this point to assume that the purchaser plans to make a profit at all.

Ads for any of the trail services would be so totally corrupting of the validity of the book that it would render it worthless. Imagine this: "Yes! We're Uncle Johnny's Nolichucky Hostel and we love all of you!!" Comment in book: "Nice place."

I think the reissue of the book will be stillborn. The only marketing device for it was the forum, and if that's gone (trust me...it will come back!) then the book is DOA. Not like a lot of people on WB are gonna shill for it, either, even if WhiteBlaze Pages sux.

Give it up, Danny boy. People are tired of you and your games.

The Weasel

The Weasel

[hiker5]

What if the coupons/ads for relevant hiker goods and services were printed in the margin? They could be easily removed for use or disposal.

[SGT Rock]

What if the coupons/ads for relevant hiker goods and services were printed in the margin? They could be easily removed for use or disposal.
OK, here is my thought. Instead of a bunch of coupons which take up space and are mostly going to end up trash later anyway, give a discount or whatever you were going to give with the coupon to anyone with an ATC membership and a form of ID to prove it is them. This means instead of pages of coupons you only need to add your laminated ATC membership card.

This would serve the function you guys want in discounts, and at the same time increase membership for the ATC which means funds, political clout, etc.

Then you could add a little annotation symbol to any proprietors entry in the guide that supports the ATC membership program.

[Appalachian Tater]

Ads in the form of discount coupons for hiker type goods and services could be useful. And yes, the ads should be separate from the data text so that you could dispose of them if you want to.

Why should trail providers give discounts? In most cases there's little competition and coupons aren't likely to gain much business. In Damascus all the B&Bs are full, the restaurants all have plenty of business. In most other places there is even less competition.

[The Weasel]

un-blinking-lievable. Ads. You want ads, buy a newspaper. You want ads in the book by the guy who said he was opposed to any commercial encroachment on the AT? You don't see a problem there?

As for the wonders of advertising, why not just suggest that we put blinkin' billboards along the path and "coupon books" in all the shelters?

The Weasel

[Creek Dancer]

Why should trail providers give discounts? In most cases there's little competition and coupons aren't likely to gain much business. In Damascus all the B&Bs are full, the restaurants all have plenty of business. In most other places there is even less competition.

That may be true during thru-hiker season, but not off-season. There are plenty of backpackers, like myself, who use the guides year round.

[Appalachian Tater]

That may be true during thru-hiker season, but not off-season. There are plenty of backpackers, like myself, who use the guides year round.

Would a coupon influence where you stay, eat, or buy supplies on the trail?

B&Bs usually have off-season rates, anyway.

[The Weasel]

OK, here is my thought. Instead of a bunch of coupons which take up space and are mostly going to end up trash later anyway, give a discount or whatever you were going to give with the coupon to anyone with an ATC membership and a form of ID to prove it is them. This means instead of pages of coupons you only need to add your laminated ATC membership card.

This would serve the function you guys want in discounts, and at the same time increase membership for the ATC which means funds, political clout, etc.

Then you could add a little annotation symbol to any proprietors entry in the guide that supports the ATC membership program.

Rock, I differ: What you're basically suggesting is that thru-hikers (the ones who will disproportionately buy such a book, no matter how it is marketed) should pay less than others, by seeking a 'discount' from a limited number of businesses (i.e. the ones close to the trail). I think that's a real, real, real bad idea. Leave aside the compromises to the integrity of listings of trail services, I don't buy a guidebook to read ads, whether it's New York City or the AT, and find one that has ads/coupons to be suspect from the get-go.

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

That may be true during thru-hiker season, but not off-season. There are plenty of backpackers, like myself, who use the guides year round.
I'm one. I often use the same guide for a couple of years after it is no longer the current one.

[Creek Dancer]

un-blinking-lievable. Ads. You want ads, buy a newspaper. You want ads in the book by the guy who said he was opposed to any commercial encroachment on the AT? You don't see a problem there?

As for the wonders of advertising, why not just suggest that we put blinkin' billboards along the path and "coupon books" in all the shelters?

The Weasel

Nobody said they WANTED ads. Who said they WANTED ads? The question was asked if someone would buy a guide with ads. Sheesh.

[Appalachian Tater]

un-blinking-lievable. Ads. You want ads, buy a newspaper. You want ads in the book by the guy who said he was opposed to any commercial encroachment on the AT? You don't see a problem there?

As for the wonders of advertising, why not just suggest that we put blinkin' billboards along the path and "coupon books" in all the shelters?

The Weasel

How 'bout bus tubs full of table scraps and boxes of stale popcorn in all the shelters? Like Second Harvest, except for hikers.

[Creek Dancer]

Would a coupon influence where you stay, eat, or buy supplies on the trail?

B&Bs usually have off-season rates, anyway.

Maybe. Depends on the establishment and the coupon.

[Appalachian Tater]

Maybe. Depends on the establishment and the coupon.

Then coupons are an excellent idea. However, I suspect that in most cases, most people will already have a preferred provider if there is even a choice.

[The Weasel]

Nobody said they WANTED ads. Who said they WANTED ads? The question was asked if someone would buy a guide with ads. Sheesh.


How 'bout bus tubs full of table scraps and boxes of stale popcorn in all the shelters? Like Second Harvest, except for hikers.

If you don't want ads, then don't encourage the idea.

As for Tater, you're suffereing from a serious lack of imaginatin. The tubs are nice, but what about wraparound posters inside the shelters advertising Power Bars and the 2008 Chevy Malibu? Can we go the whole way and sell naming rights to shelters, too? How about "Toyotal Partnership Shelter" and Exxon Saunders Shelter.

Great idea. We need more commercializing. Signs! I forgot signs! Yes! "2 miles to Blood Mountain Shelter, Shoneys Is Good For You!"

The Weasel

[RadioFreq]

How 'bout bus tubs full of table scraps and boxes of stale popcorn in all the shelters? Like Second Harvest, except for hikers.

The mice would love that idea. :D

[RadioFreq]

4 more posts, i'll be at 10,000. w tf do i get?

Carpal tunnel? :D

[max patch]

Give it up, Danny boy. People are tired of you and your games.



And yet you wonder why Mr Bruce hid behind the drapes --everytime!!! --when you came knocking on his front door in Hot Springs.

[SGT Rock]

Maybe because only a few really like to play WF games, and WF used his powers to determine that Weasel wasn't one of them.

[Lone Wolf]

weasel is way too old for WF games

[The Weasel]

And yet you wonder why Mr Bruce hid behind the drapes --everytime!!! --when you came knocking on his front door in Hot Springs.

Max, I don't know why Dan hid seven years ago, but he led me to believe then - and later - that I was his friend. I even tried to accept what was clearly a bunch of lies about the famous "Phantom Handbook" of '00, and how he cheated a lot of us by not finishing it until late the following year. I lived with him being shucking and jiving about who was "worthy" to be a poster in Trailplace. And I even tried to be understanding - not for his sake, but for the sake of the other suckers who bought his schtick - when he closed down, with no warning, causing actual damage to some who could never retrieve posts or other information they needed. I figured that it was pretty cheesy to sell off a lot of the things he had stored up, but figured that it was his stuff, and if he wanted to be cheddar, that was his lookout.

But after all the variations of his "I'm closing down, send money for me to have a party" on Trailplace, to then announce that some nameless stooge - who frankly, I doubt exists, in light of all the other scams he's pulled on people - has been found worthy of publishing something he complains has lost him so much money is just balderdash.

There are a lot of posts here about behaviors that "make hikers look bad." Dan's behavior beats just about anything other than the shelter and hostel trashing, and gives those a run for the money.

IMHO, that is.

The Weasel

[Shutterbug]

Nobody said they WANTED ads. Who said they WANTED ads? The question was asked if someone would buy a guide with ads. Sheesh.

No one buys magazines or newspapers for the advertisements. The buyers tolerate the advertisements for the other information that is in them. For most magazines and newspapers the subscription price is intended to cover the cost of production and distribution. It is the advertising that makes them profitable.

It seems to me that for a trail guide to be a profitable venture it would need two things:

1. Broader distribution than just thru-hikers, and
2. Produce revenue other than just the subscription price.

I envision something similar to the MilePost Magazine. It is a once a year publication for people who drive the AlCan Highway to Alaska. Who knows, it could be MilePost that bought the rights.

http://themilepost.com/reciplink/milepost.html

[Appalachian Tater]

1. Broader distribution than just thru-hikers


Since it's already been established that well under 2,000 people attempt a thru-hike annually, one would assume that the current guidebooks together have a much wider market than just thru-hikers.

Does anyone know what the total annual A.T. guidebook sales figure is, or a close approximation??

[The Solemates]

do you people not work? :D

[Creek Dancer]

That's a really good idea Rock! And good for the ATC too! Much better than the coupon ad idea.


OK, here is my thought. Instead of a bunch of coupons which take up space and are mostly going to end up trash later anyway, give a discount or whatever you were going to give with the coupon to anyone with an ATC membership and a form of ID to prove it is them. This means instead of pages of coupons you only need to add your laminated ATC membership card.

This would serve the function you guys want in discounts, and at the same time increase membership for the ATC which means funds, political clout, etc.

Then you could add a little annotation symbol to any proprietors entry in the guide that supports the ATC membership program.

[Creek Dancer]

I will participate in any discussion and post whatever I like within the terms of participation of this board. And I don't need or want your nod to do so.


If you don't want ads, then don't encourage the idea.

The Weasel

[The Weasel]

Rock:

I'm not sure I totally disagree, after thinking about it. But what bothers me is this: How is such a "discount" different from me going up to a merchant and saying, "I'm a thru hiker" or "I'm a member of the ATC" and then saying, "Because of that you should cut your price to me."

The Weasel

[Johnny Thunder]

I aint got no time for shuckin' and jivin'

[SGT Rock]

Well in this case it would be a voulentary program where a buisness wants you to show up as a hiker and wants your specialized business. If I went around begging a discount for special treatment because I was a hiker, well it is just me and my begging skills which may or may not reflect well on hikers with the local businesses.

BUT if I am a resturaunt, hotel, or whatever and I know that I actually want hikers coming to me, I might be inclined to ask to have my listing annotate as a hiker friendly place that gives some deals to hikers (some places already do) depending on what services I offer. For a resturaunt maybe they would give a discount or offer an AYCE meal that is not on the menu, for a hotel maybe they would increase the number of people allowed to split the room, for an outfitter maybe it would be a discount on gear or whatever. It is similar to your AARP discount or my Military discount - it is a way for businesses to capture a certain corner on the market or at least help guide it.

So if I have a hotel in Frankin and want to do this, then I get a symbol by my listing in the guide and when a hiker decides to go to Frankling, most likely he will start at my hotel in Franklin looking for a place to stay before he goes anywhere else. So instead of maybe getting one or two hikers a year, I could possibly end up as the place of first consideration for hundreds of people. The hiker wins and the business wins.

[Appalachian Tater]

What about places like Gateway Motel in Wind Gap, PA, that charge hikers an extra $5 because they supposedly have to wash the bedspread after a hiker uses the room or other guests will complain about the smell?

[SGT Rock]

They get a special notice that the are NOT HIKER FRIENDLY. :D or :(

[DavidNH]

yeah... 5 plus pages later the thread is still going..re hashing stuff already said.

Wingfoots book was the best and most widely used far as I can tell.. but I have no doubt the companion is also very good.

Frankly..I don't know what else to say here so I am just gonna leave tihs alone. You all have your fun.

oh man ...if Wingfoot could charge a couple quarters even for every word that whiteblaze folks wrote about him.. the guy would have his retirement fund all set up!

David

[Smile]

What about places like Gateway Motel in Wind Gap, PA, that charge hikers an extra $5 because they supposedly have to wash the bedspread after a hiker uses the room or other guests will complain about the smell?

Easy way to make five bucks for the establishment; ask them to remove it before you check in to the room :)

[Jack Tarlin]

Easier way.....just don't stay there.

Nobody's FORCED to stay anywhere, and anyone who stays at a place known to be unfriendly to hikers deserves what they get.

[Lone Wolf]

if i owned a motel near the AT i would definately charge more $$ for hikers

[Lone Wolf]

Easier way.....just don't stay there.

Nobody's FORCED to stay anywhere, and anyone who stays at a place known to be unfriendly to hikers deserves what they get.

that's not being unfriendly. hikers are nasty and messy

[Appalachian Tater]

that's not being unfriendly. hikers are nasty and messy

L. Wolf, I'm nasty but not messy.

[the goat]

yeah... 5 plus pages later the thread is still going..re hashing stuff already said.

Wingfoots book was the best and most widely used far as I can tell.. but I have no doubt the companion is also very good.

Frankly..I don't know what else to say here so I am just gonna leave tihs alone. You all have your fun.

oh man ...if Wingfoot could charge a couple quarters even for every word that whiteblaze folks wrote about him.. the guy would have his retirement fund all set up!

David
why are you rehashing stuff said already?:-?

[Sly]

I'd have no problem with a couple pages of ads in a guidebook that were easily torn out. On the road I pick up roomsaver to help choose which motel I'll be staying at. Similar ads for discounts for lodging, gear and restaurants along the trail would work for me.

[RadioFreq]

If this were to happen I would vote for a membership card with benefits. When I hike the only things I carry are my driver's lic., two credit cards and some cash. A laminated card one could whip out would be more convenient. Removable coupons and such can get trashed/soaked/ruined during a hike.

[Sly]

At one point, even with a membership card, you'd have to have a page of ads or list of benefits.

[Sly]

Would a coupon influence where you stay, eat, or buy supplies on the trail?


Absolutely....

[SGT Rock]

At one point, even with a membership card, you'd have to have a page of ads or list of benefits.
Not really. You could simply list the benifit in line with the service provider ie:

Ernies Ribs :D (<-hiker approval symbol) AYCE plates for ATC members.