Appalachian Trail Institute [Archive]

Jack Tarlin

11-10-2003, 20:19

Each year, there are 365 daily sessions of the "Whiteblaze Trail Institute" available at Whiteblaze, the best and most comprehensive informational A.T. site presently available. This residential program was created in order to help prepare prospective A.T. thru-hikers, and was designed so that prospective hikers could hear from all sorts of different folks, with all sorts of different viewpoints and opinions, as opposed to other informational sources which tend to offer "expert" advice from one self-appointed trail authority.

Oh. It also happens to be entirely free. For more information, please visit www.whiteblaze.net

Lugnut

11-11-2003, 00:53

Gosh Jack, lighten up! I realize that you do not advocate the ATI way and neither do a lot of us. However, this method may work best for some. I would imagine there are some with medical problems, time constraints or other legitimate reasons that find this is the only way to experience what many of us take for granted. No need to be exclusionary; there's room for all.
Maybe it's the full moon. :p

jlb2012

11-11-2003, 07:52

hummm - now that's an idea - a full moon smiley - I bet that would be used even more than the dancing banana

The Weasel

11-11-2003, 09:24

I have no idea whether Warren Doyle's Institute is useful or not, but as one of the very first members of WhiteBlaze, I am intensely uncomfortable with ANY commerical advertising here. I am sure that you have a website, Warren, and that it can be found by search engines, and I encourage you to use that instead.

The Weasel

MOWGLI

11-11-2003, 09:42

The responses from a few folks here are exactly what makes the internet community so unlike the trail experience.

It seems as if folks look for the commonality while out on the trail. Once in cyberspace, folks like to focus on the differences between us. I found this VERY disheartening after my thru-hike. I found it even more disheartening when I too participated in the backbiting that occasionally goes on in these forums.

Why is Warren being singled out here? I wasn't criticized when I posted a note about the thru-hiking seminar I held this past weekend at REI in Atlanta. I didn't see Cedar Tree singled out when he posted something about his Packa.

Here's a snippet from the Whiteblaze Mission. Y'all would be well served to read the entire Mission statement again (or for the first time) before you call someone to task.

The free sharing of information and experiences is why this site was created and it is why it is one of the best sites on the web dealing with the Appalachian Trail. No one person’s experiences are any better or worse than any one else’s. Here we think that everyone’s dreams, from hiking that first mile to finishing the climb at Mt. Katahdin, is a dream worth sharing.

warren doyle

11-11-2003, 09:54

Jack Tarlin: At least you are consistently vigilant. I don't consider myself a "self-appointed" trail authority. I do consider myself a humane educator who is interested in helping people fulfill their AT thru-hiking dreams. I have been motivated this way for the last thirty years and I feel good about it. The question to you again...just what are you afraid of?
Lugnut: There is no 'ATI way'. It is general preparation for all prospective AT thru-hikers. I think you may be confusing the ATI with the AT Circle Expeditions which are much more specific and highly task-oriented. The ATI and the Expedition are two seperate entities with different philosophical foundations, objectives and desired outcomes.
The Weasel: I have no website but I do have e-mail. I do not consider the ATI 'commercial'. I'm just letting the people who use this wonderful website know there is a 'folk' service that is available to prospective thru-hikers. Based on my follow-up of ATI alumni, the overwhelming majority of them had found it useful. That is the main reason why I still offer it.
If the administrator of this website finds my thread starter to be 'commercial' then they can eliminate it.

Lugnut

11-11-2003, 12:25

Warren, you are correct that I confused the ATI for the "Circle". However, my opinion remains valid. There is room here for all and your efforts at educating future hikers shouldn't be seen as an affront to those of us who prefer to learn things by free exchange of information or trial and error. This all proves that I am easily confused and hard headed. :D

Beegfut

11-11-2003, 19:51

"Commercial"? I don't think so. Having listened to a talk Warren gave at Trail Days, I don't think the man has a commercial bone in his body.

Rain Man

11-11-2003, 21:55

...I do not consider the ATI 'commercial'. I'm just letting the people who use this wonderful website know there is a 'folk' service that is available to prospective thru-hikers. ...

Warren.... I'm just a dumb newbie.

Do you charge anything for your "folk service" ATI?

I don't even know what it is.

Rain Man

The Weasel

11-11-2003, 22:47

The Weasel: I have no website but I do have e-mail. I do not consider the ATI 'commercial'. I'm just letting the people who use this wonderful website know there is a 'folk' service that is available to prospective thru-hikers. Based on my follow-up of ATI alumni, the overwhelming majority of them had found it useful. That is the main reason why I still offer it.
If the administrator of this website finds my thread starter to be 'commercial' then they can eliminate it.

One of the things that I've enjoyed about WhiteBlaze is its "trail feel." It's a lot like being in a shelter and talking about the day...gear, people, events, what is ahead and what has been passed.

Warren, I'm sorry. But your "thread" is a lot like looking up from such a chat to the sign nailed in the loft of the shelter saying, "Franzapple Notch Hostel and Cheeseburger Heaven at the next road crossing." It may be a place that is created as a nice haven by a caring person, whose goal is to make the trail a happier place, and not to garner great wealth. Or, it may be. I don't really care. But it's grating, and an intrusion into that "trail feel" by someone trying to score - for whatever reason - from that audience. I would feel the same if it were the ATC or Dan Bruce, neither of whom, I hasten to note, "advertises" on either the Trail or in others' forums.

One of the other things about this website that is absolutely delightful is that its history - again, unlike others - is that administrators do not delete posts that they disagree with or even dislike, sometimes intensely; we've fought that war, a long time ago, with the result that even the most asinine idiot is free here to demonstrate that idiocy. But that doesn't mean that toleration means silence.

Much as Baltimore Jack says (as usual, more succinctly than I), if someone has a talent or knowledge here, they share it. That's good. But advertising here, or by shelter handouts or posters, is something I wish I didn't have to see. Yes, I'm aware of the ATC debate on shelter ads; I know which way I come down on that. And Warren, if you lack a website, perhaps you might create one, or ask someone here or elsewhere to help you with one, if you prefer not to simply share your knowledge in this institute.

The Weasel

Jack Tarlin

11-11-2003, 23:48

My, my, Warren's a bit testy today. Did he wake up on the wrong side of the support vehicle, perhaps?

And I'm so glad to hear that his primary interest is in helping people. Except that in this case, his "help" seems to involve charging folks for knowledge they can get elsewhere for free. This was essentially the purpose of my first post. I found it amusing that Warren, a relatively new face at Whiteblaze is using a free informational source, in order to steer them towards one that wants their money.
Permissible? Certainly! Tacky? Absolutely!

Also, I find it amusing that Warren doesn't seem to think his "Institute" is a commercial venture. Well do you charge for it or not, Warren? If you do, then it sure as hell seems to be a commercial venture to me, as "commercial" generally means that money is involved. If you're doing this purely and entirely outta love, Warren, cuz you love helping folks so much, then I salute you! And ya know what? If you're charging a few bucks for your wit and wisdom, well I got no problem with that either, it's a free country. (I'm tempted to say "caveat emptor" to your prospective clients, but let's not go there).

I don't think anyone objects to you charging folks for trail advice in the process of helping them....I think, however, that you should at least be honest about it. If you're doing this outta pure love for your fellow man, as you seem to be implying, great! But if you're also doing it to bank a few bucks, well at least be up front about it. I can't help but notice that NEITHER of your posts extolling the virtues of your "Institute" mentioned that this vital "service" to the Trail community costs money....nor of course, have you yet told how much this service costs. Perhaps if Warren were more forthcoming with this information, it might help folks decide if it was in fact worth it to receive his help and assistance, especially in light of the fact that there are so many other folks out there sharing their knowledge and experience for free.

Lastly, Warren, in regards to your asking me what I'm afraid of. The answer is simpl;e, and I seem to remember telling you the same thing at Trail Days when you got in my face and asked me this the first time: I'm afraid of all sorts of things, Warren, as any sensible man is: I'm afraid of lightning in exposed places.
I'm afraid that my good luck at dodging rattlers just North of Duncannon is due to run out someday. I'm afraid of airplanes, and sometimes, of heights and sharp drop-offs on the Trail. I'm afraid that the film version of "Cold Mountain" will suck compared to the novel. I'm afraid that this year's fire at the Distillery Warehouse will do terrible things to the price of Jim Beam next year. I'm afraid of people that think Al Sharpton would make a good president.

In short, Warren, I'm afraid of all manner of things. However, be perfectly assured that you are certainly not one of them. How could one fear something that provides one with so much amusement?

Blue Jay

11-12-2003, 09:20

My, my, Warren's a bit testy today. Did he wake up on the wrong side of the support vehicle, perhaps?

Perhaps it seems like you got up on the wrong side of something. You jumped down his throat first. Why do you hate support vehicles so much? Both you and the Weasel are always lecturing us on following the rules. Like all the sanctimonious (including me), you both then go on to invent new rules. Your first post explained your position quite well. Stopping there would have made your point, believe me I know, I often do not know when to stop. You are always lecturing us on the "image" of thruhikers in towns and the Whiteblaze Site. This type of backbiting does not conform to this standard. I do so enjoy it however. Oh, and The Weasel, I like the little notes about hostels in the shelters. They are against ATC policy but not illegal, I eagerly await your long winded response.

Peaks

11-12-2003, 09:21

Well, let's see if I can express myself right.

People who have not backpacked, or done a long distance hike should get an education before starting an attempt to thru-hike.

Now, we can get this education all sorts of ways. Some of us may read books, others may read journals. Some will do practice overnights. And some will attend seminars such at the ATI.

For those that need seminar type learning, thank you Warren. And if there are others who do a seminar, then I suggest that you post a notice here and elsewhere so that others may take advantage of it. After all, aren't we all here to share knowledge or to learn from others?

MOWGLI

11-12-2003, 09:59

post removed as it served no constructive purpose.

chomp

11-12-2003, 10:20

OK, I don't want to get mixed up with the mud slinging, but a similar problem arose a couple of years ago on the AMC site. A member was constantly promoting his commercial site on outdoors.org, and quite a few people got offended by it.

Basically, what was determined was:

1) If you are posting something that is commercial or costs money, identify that at the very beginning.

2) If the money is just to recoup costs (food, lodging, etc..) fine, but still identify the costs associated with that money and what it will be used for.

3) If it is a commercial venture, that is fine as well, but clearly state that. Otherwise don't post it.

Warren, I have no doubt that your retreat costs money to run, and that you need to recoup that cost. However, if you are making a profit on this course, you should mention that this is a commercial post. In either case, you should mention the cost upfront. Or create a website of your own where you can be vague on the details.

-chomp

Youngblood

11-12-2003, 10:24

I don't have a problem with Warren's post. If you want to know how much it cost, ask him? We have about 1500 registered users on this site and we will have very few issues where everyone will agree. If you don't agree with someone, try to be respectful with your disagreement. I for one am getting a little worn out with the bickering and some of the intolerent attitudes sometimes shown towards things that are basically just differences in opinions. There is usually more than one way of doing things and usually it is a good thing to be aware of this. Sometimes we need to get a reality check on our ego's. And yes, I include myself in that group.

Youngblood... stepping down off the soapbox.

The Weasel

11-12-2003, 10:41

Gosh. I'm not exactly sure where to start, but I'm sure there's a way.

Warren and anyone else can have a commercial enterprise - that's one that takes money for a service or goods ("profit making" and "non profit" enterprises have nothing to do with making profits, folks; K-Mart is one of the former; REI is one of the latter. Which one went bust?) - along or for the AT with no quibble from me, a point I made clear above But that doesn't entitle them to advertise on someone else's location, especially on the trail and, as I said, it's grating here as well. Let me be clear about it: What I wrote wasn't an attack; if Warren has a useful service to provide, let him do what so many others do and create - it's not that hard - a website of his own. If an Army sargeant serving in a war zone can run a full fledged forum from a laptop shared with the rest of his division, I'm sure it's not that hard to do a simple site.

By the way, I agree with Baltimore Jack: I'd be GLAD to listen to Warren. All he needs to do is give his advice, thoughts, and information in an Appalachian Trail forum such as this. I welcome it; there is much, after 45 years of backpacking, that I still yearn to know, as well as some things I can share. If Warren - or anyone - have trail strategies that work, mantras for taking tough hills, meal plans beyond Lipton's, ways to lighten gear or whatever, I will read them with great interest, and, yes, sometimes disagree. But I haven't seen much here from Warren (although was, shall we say, fascinated by his 20 word explication about not carrying a map or compass), and, aye, there's the rub: All will be revealed, not here, not on Trailplace, not in Sgt. Rock's Hiking HQ, or any other forum. It will be revealed when I pay some money (which I have no doubt will be reasonable and returned by value) and go somewhere else. That's advertising. Whether it's Warren, with useful advice, or REI (a nonprofit organization with equally useful information), or Laurel Creek Hostel with it's signs by the trail, I don't think it belongs here.

Go ahead, Warren: Share your experience and your knowledge, both of appear hardly inconsiderable, and share it here. OR set up another site, if you feel that your advice should be compensated. I have no doubt that there are many who will be glad to assist, as many assisted in creating this site.

[Edited, on reflection, by The Weasel]

The Weasel

Red Hat

11-12-2003, 11:10

I attended Warren's ATI last summer. It cost me $300 for 5 days. That included 4 nights, all meals, and transportation to the trail for hiking. Plus he personally marked a Gazetteer map of Virginia so my husband could find the road crossings. I doubt he made a penny. It was worth every cent to learn from him. He is a bundle of knowledge! Excentric, yes. I told my friends that learning about the trail from him was like taking guitar lessons from Willie Nelson. You know he is a little off the wall, but you love him anyway. Thanks Warren!

MOWGLI

11-12-2003, 12:33

post removed as it served no constructive purpose.

A-Train

11-12-2003, 16:47

I 'd first like to address the upcoming class of 04. I want to let you know that the above postings are not a reflection of Trail life, culture or the majority of the folks out there. Don't let these postings bring you down or take away from the excitement I know you all have.
The truth is that the people you'll meet, hike with and sleep in shelters with, share a pizza or hitch a ride are the ones that will enhance and esentially make your AT experience what it is. The friends I made out there this yr are life-long friends, some more faithful, loyal and caring than friends from the outside world.
I'm embarrassed as a former thru-hiker to view this behavior and pointless ranting and cheap shot taking that has gone on here and in so many threads. Many times this site turns into a dirty competition and many of the posts deal with peoples personal historical problems with other folks. It's a shame that innocent people interested in the AT must have to view this and filter out all the crap just to learn about the AT, the whole reason they are here.
As alumni thru-hikers, some of you multiple timers and Trail "icons" I suggest you all start acting that way. Your behavior is a poor reflection of yourselves, the AT community and past thru-hikers. If you're here to boast and fight and re-tell your list of accomplishments than maybe this is not the place to do so. At sometime we were all rookies, novices and beginners and there was someone there to help, and to dispense valuable info. Now with the Trails growing population, there are many folks in those shoes, and it is the responsibility of alumni hikers to share their wealth and to give back in a positive way.
I'm sure glad I have already thru-hiked because based on all the crap and energy that is exhausted on worthless banter I'd never want to be apart of that. Good luck to the upcoming AT classes. Keep your enthusiasm, energy and questions and hopefully we here that care can help to get you on the right track
A-Train 03'

MOWGLI

11-12-2003, 16:55

I 'd first like to address the upcoming class of 04. I want to let you know that the above postings are not a reflection of Trail life, culture or the majority of the folks out there.

Agreed 110%. I compalined about the same thing yesterday at 13:42, then went on a tirade.

My apologies to Russ & all for my boorish behavior.

smokymtnsteve

11-12-2003, 16:55

TNJED...I have had experience in the Non-profit world...and I understand why you chose to be in it and how well you will fit in!

one hundred dollars....and I will talk you about hiking the AT....I questioned it then on this forum...but I try to be nice...The Weasel can tell you I'm a real nice guy...

and to think you made fun of me being a shelter caretaker....

your really going to be helping your non-profit..with your attitude...I'll make sure of it and you can take that to the bank.

TJ aka Teej

11-12-2003, 19:11

There are three more sessions of the ___________ scheduled this year: Dec. 1-5; Dec. 8-12; Dec. 15-19.
The ____ is a five-day residential program to help prepare prospective AT thru-hikers. It is based out of my home at the foot of the Blue Ridge about 60 miles northwest of Winston-Salem, NC.
For more info, contact _______

1. Advertising on another person's dime is very poor form.
2. If you have some hiking advice to share, please consider typing it out into a post instead of offering to sell it.

alpine

11-13-2003, 05:38

with drawn

The Weasel

11-13-2003, 13:51

My apologies to Russ & all for my boorish behavior.

Were TNJED able to receive private messages, at greater length I would say (as I tried to do but couldn't) why I don't think apologies are necessary, but are appreciated sincerely as the mark of someone with no small amount of class as well as experience.

And by the way, I was doomed to fail to complete my thruhike in '00, for reasons I only fully learned in the last few months, and which it dawns on me matter enough to post, in the Health/Hygiene forum here. You may read, or ignore, my post, at your leisure.

The Weasel

smokymtnsteve

11-13-2003, 15:44

or a small amount of fear

bunbun

11-14-2003, 00:08

What a hoot!!! Warren offers something that any prospective thruhiker would give their eyeteeth for - and gets jumped on for it. So - what did he offer?

Hmmm - let's start with - what's the percentage of AT thruhiking starters who actually finish the Trail? Answer - 10-15%

So - of those who go to Warren's ATI - and then actually start the Trail - what's the percentage of AT thruhiking starters who actually finish the Trail?
Answer - last I heard, it was 75%

Finally - of those who do only Whiteblaze (and/or other Internet forums of one sort or another ) - what's the percentage of AT thruhiking starters who actually finish the Trail? Answer - who knows. But it damn sure ain't 75%.

And that's not meant to put down Whiteblaze. There's NO Internet forum that's ever come close to that 75%. For a while, at-l was hitting 40-45%. May still be. And regardless of opinions to the contrary, that was the best.

Oh - yeah - so what DID Warren offer? How about a chance to increase your individual probability of finishing the Trail - by a factor of 5 or more? Is that worth the price? Betcher sweet patootie it is.

So what difference does it make what the price is? Or if he makes a profit out of it? That's none of anybody's business as long as he delivers a product that's worth the price to those who pay for it. And he does.

If any part of the Whiteblaze purpose is to help prospective thruhikers to finish their hikes instead of going home early, then Warren's post should be welcome - not draw a lot of BS flames from those who don't even know what they're flaming.

chomp

11-14-2003, 00:31

Sorry, bunbun, this post still does not belong here, at least not in its current form. I never said that Warren's service wasn't valuable and I never said that it wasn't worth the money. However, if you are going to post something here that COSTS money, you should at least be 100% upfront about it. State what the costs are, exactly. State what the money goes to. And state if you are making a profit.

Why is that such an outlandish request? If anyone else were to do this, they would get jumped all over for being deceptive, but Warren gets a pass? Sorry, this just doesn't fly.

If I invent a new stove/backpack/hiking pole/water filter/etc... that is going to help out a thru-hiker, I want to announce it here. I want to help out thru hikers on their adventure north. I also want to make a couple of bucks for my time. If I were to post something like:

Hey Class of 2004! I have just created this new widget that is going to save you time, money and weight on your thru-hike! This new widget is great, and once you get your hands on it, you are going to wonder how you ever backpacked without one. I think that a lot of you would be really interested in getting one of these widgets, so email me at.... to get your very own!

That would get so much flak that the thread would be deleted. The post reads like an infomercal, providing no real details, no price and leaves you with bad feeling. Well, Warren did the same thing, and I (and others) are calling him on it.

Heck, Rain Man asked a direct question:

Do you charge anything for your "folk service" ATI?

and Warren chose not to respond. What is that about? The guy is a newbie, never heard of the ATI and asked a direct question. The lack of a straight and forthright answer is troubling to me, and only confirms my inital bad feeling about this post to begin with.

The only answer that we are provided with from Warren is this:

I do not consider the ATI 'commercial'.

This is really aggraviting. Several Whiteblaze members raise an concern with this post and the only response is, basically, "Nope, you are wrong." Wow - OK, in light of that stupendous arguement, I conceed. You know, I was thinking that the AIT was a commercial venture there for a while, but thanks Warren, you really cleared all that up.

OK, enough Tarlinisms... :D Before anyone flames me, like I said I am NOT disputing the usefulness of this course, and I am not saying that Warren is a bad guy for making money. I think its great that this course helps people to finish the trail, and I think its great that we got a first-hand testimonail from someone. I like the trail, and I like money, and I like helping people. Put those three things together and you've got yourself a pretty sweet deal. I don't fault Warren for making a buck. However, be upfront about it, that's all I'm asking. Why is this a controversial idea?

As for that widget that I invented...

Lone Wolf

11-14-2003, 01:21

It seems all you drunken Billville types have a major hard on for Warren. Get over yourselves. Why didn't anybody question the dudes putting on the $100 hiking clinic thing in Atlanta? Buncha hypocritical p***ks.

rickb

11-14-2003, 08:51

A 75% success rate is impressive. While some of that is probably attributed to fact that those attending are highly motivated, there has to be much, much more reason for it.

Anyone else attend one of the seminars?

What do you think the reason for that kind of success rate is? The logistical information? The enthusiasm generated? Helping people develop realistic expectations of what's ahead? I am sure its a combination of things, but does anything stand out?

Rick B

(Edit to post a tangential thought in its own thread)

chomp

11-14-2003, 09:03

What is this post you are talking about, Wolf? Has it been deleted? I never saw it, and if I had, I certainly would have commented on it. No hypocracy here. Oh, and apparently my repeated remarks that I have nothing against Warren or his course fell on deaf ears, eh Wolf? Or was my post just too long?

warren doyle

11-14-2003, 09:52

Thank you Rick B for such a well-thought out response. And your questions are fine ones.
Certainly, the population that comes to the ATI is skewed in regards to the general AT-dreamer population, especially now in the info superhighway age where info, whether good or bad, is so easy to obtain.

For a person to take five or six days off of work, or their personal time (if retired/unemployed), and fly/drive hundreds of miles to attend an Appalachian Trail Institute, may be a reflection of certain personal qualities that would be conducive to them finishing the trail anyway. I only present time-proven information/wisdom to them to complement and enhance what they already have to furthur increase their chances of completing their thru-hikes.

The cost for four-five nights lodging, 13 meals, five full-days of instruction both inside and outside, instructional materials, and follow-up advice is only $300 (much less than I would be receiving if I substitute taught at a local elementary school). For many people who attend, they save that much in deciding not to buy expensive equipment that they don't need. Some who attend, decide the the AT is not for them. I rather have them find that out here than on the approach trail to Springer or on the trail south of Neels Gap.

I value face-to-face education. It's more honest, and can be more caring, than what I've experienced on the info superhighway.

My sole objective in offering the Appalachian Trail Institute is to help those AT dreamers who choose to attend increase their chances of fulfilling their dream.
I neither desire to economically profit from this nor do I want to suffer a monentary deficit from this.

Happy trails to all!

TJ aka Teej

11-14-2003, 09:59

Heck, Rain Man asked a direct question:

and Warren chose not to respond....

For an "educator", he does that quite often on Whiteblaze.
As for the alleged ATI success rate, perhaps that says more about the kind of hiker who seeks out information than it does about a single source of information they found. Insinuating that the only reason that certain hikers finished the trail was their attendance at a certain clinic is (intentionally?) misleading. (The hikers turned off to the AT by attending the clinic aren't counted in the clinic's 'failure rate') 99.99% of northbounders who eat steak at Shaw's finish the AT. Following Doyle logic, if you want to complete the AT you should eat steak at Shaw's.
-
Here's a link to some information about thruhiking and stuff. It's pretty good, very interesting, and free. http://trailwise.circumtech.com/thruhikingpapers/ I like it when people who have hiking advice take the time to share it.

chomp

11-14-2003, 10:06

Thank you, Warren. I can't speak for everyone here on the board, but that is all I was looking for. It sounds like a great option for people looking for hands on experience before embarking on a thru-hike.

Rain Man

11-14-2003, 12:22

...The cost ... is only $300 ....

Happy trails to all!

Thanks for the answer to my question, Warren. I appreciate it.

And Happy Trails to you!

Rain Man

The Weasel

11-14-2003, 14:48

If you want to complete the AT you should eat steak at Shaw's.

Aw, dammit. TJ, now you've gone and REALLY ruined it for me. I'm a vegan. So that means if I can't each steak at Shaw's, I'm doomed AGAIN? Jeez. One rotten thing after the other.

The Weasel

Peaks

11-14-2003, 17:15

The Weasel

11-14-2003, 20:14

Shaws is a meat and potatoes type of all you can eat. If that not your preference, then stay at that other place in Monson.

It gets worse? It's an AYCE and I get to eat POTATOES? Sheesh! Just my luck...doomed never to finish the trail because I can't eat in the mythic eats joints. Dang.

The Weasel

TJ aka Teej

11-14-2003, 23:30

Aw, dammit. TJ, now you've gone and REALLY ruined it for me. I'm a vegan. So that means if I can't each steak at Shaw's, I'm doomed AGAIN? Jeez. One rotten thing after the other.

The Weasel

No worries! The completion rate is about the same for GAMErs who veg out at the Pie Lady's. Can vegan's eat ice cream? Sidney's got an ice cream and pie special for all hikers passing through Monson (no matter where they stay) that's not to be missed - about eleventytrillion calories for less than $4. Dunno if the ATC's keeping stats yet on pie eater's success rates :D

smokymtnsteve

11-14-2003, 23:33

nope ..no dairy...

The Weasel

11-14-2003, 23:48

No worries! The completion rate is about the same for GAMErs who veg out at the Pie Lady's. Can vegan's eat ice cream? Sidney's got an ice cream and pie special for all hikers passing through Monson (no matter where they stay) that's not to be missed - about eleventytrillion calories for less than $4. Dunno if the ATC's keeping stats yet on pie eater's success rates :D

Teej:

I HATE YOU
I HATE YOU
I HATE YOU

Vegetarians do not eat flesh - meat or fowl, and often include fish in the definition - but will eat animal byproducts such as dairy items. Vegans, my dear Teej, DO NOT EAT DAIRY PRODUCTS LIKE ICE CREAM, WHICH I LOVE, YOU SCOUNDREL!!!!!!!!

First you tell me about an AYCE loaded with great steaks. Then you torture me with "ice cream and pie specials". You are EVIL EVIL EVIL!!!!!!!

Sheesh. Next thing I know there will be a Col. Sanders at the exit from Baxter State Park. Egad.

Ice cream. Oh my. Silky smooth, with chunks of fresh mangoes, swirls of caramel, fudge topping. Pie with a large hunk of cheddar....coffee mit schlag. I'm starting to hallucinate....................................... .................

The Weasel

TJ aka Teej

11-15-2003, 23:11

You are EVIL EVIL EVIL!!!!!!!

I get that a lot :D

Nightwalker

11-21-2003, 11:58

chomp

11-21-2003, 12:08

Are the "boo-birds" just an anomoly?

Almost none. The Appalachian Trail is very important to just about everyone here. And because of its important, there are often passionate debates that happen. Occasionally these debates get a little too heated and a little too personal, for a varity of reasons. Sometimes its history, sometimes its the topic.

But bottom line, you won't hear too many of these dabates out on the trail itself. Everyone is just too happy to be out there hiking. But off the trail, we have way too much time to get into debates like this.

Keep in mind, too, that tone of voice is VERY hard to distinguish in a board like this. For example, someone might have responded here with a statement was was totally in jest. However, because there is no real way to tell that, someone else will assume that they were being mean. That is a dificenty in ALL online board systems, not just this one.

Blue Jay

11-21-2003, 12:21

Are the "boo-birds" just an anomoly?

Thanks,
Frank

Boo-birds, I'm not familiar with that term. You may be happier on the Trail Place Site. It's all stickysweet there. This site is more for adults.

Nightwalker

11-21-2003, 13:48

Almost none. The Appalachian Trail is very important to just about everyone here. And because of its important, there are often passionate debates that happen. Occasionally these debates get a little too heated and a little too personal, for a varity of reasons. Sometimes its history, sometimes its the topic.

But bottom line, you won't hear too many of these dabates out on the trail itself. Everyone is just too happy to be out there hiking. But off the trail, we have way too much time to get into debates like this.

Keep in mind, too, that tone of voice is VERY hard to distinguish in a board like this. For example, someone might have responded here with a statement was was totally in jest. However, because there is no real way to tell that, someone else will assume that they were being mean. That is a dificenty in ALL online board systems, not just this one.

Thanks for the supportive, great reply. :)

Frank