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abe
11-12-2003, 13:11
THE NEVER ENDING TRAIL

We whites honor the "Hermitage"
And the man who once lived there -
But, that leader of our Nation
Was cruel, unjust, unfair -
He ordered the removal
Of the Cherokee from their land
And forced them on a trek
That the Devil must have planned -
One thousand miles of misery -
Of pain and suffering -
Because greed of the white man
Could not even wait till spring -
We should bow our heads in shame
Even unto this day
About "The Trail Of Tears"
And those who died along the way.
It was October, eighteen thirty-eight
When seven thousand troops in blue
Began the story of the "Trail"
Which, so sadly, is so true -
Jackson ordered General Scott
To rout the Indian from their home -
The "Center Of The World" they loved -
The only one they'd known -
The Braves working in the fields
Arrested, placed in a stockade -
Women and children dragged from home
In the bluecoats shameful raid -
Some were prodded with bayonets
When, they were deemed to move too slow
To where the Sky was their blanket
And the cold Earth, their pillow -
In one home a Babe had died
Sometime in the night before -
And women mourning, planning burial
Were cruelly herded out the door -
In another, a frail Mother -
Papoose on back and two in tow
Was told she must leave her home
Was told that she must go -
She uttered a quiet prayer -
Told the old family dog good-bye -
Then, her broken heart gave out
And she sank slowly down to die -
Chief Junaluska witnessed this -
Tears streaming down his face -
Said if he could have known this
It would have never taken place -
For, at the battle of Horse Shoe
With five hundred Warriors, his best -
Helped Andrew Jackson win that battle
And lay thirty-three Braves to rest -
And the Chief drove his tomahawk
Through a Creek Warrior's head
Who was about to kill Jackson -
But whose life was saved, instead -
Chief John Ross knew this story
And once sent Junaluska to plead -
Thinking Jackson would listen to
This Chief who did that deed -
But, Jackson was cold, indifferent
To the one he owed his life to
Said, "The Cherokee's fate is sealed -
There's nothing, I can do."


Washington, D.C. had decreed
They must be moved Westward -
And all their pleas and protests
To this day still go unheard.
On November, the seventeenth
Old Man Winter reared his head -
And freezing cold, sleet and snow
Littered that trail with the dead
On one night, at least twenty-two
Were released from their torment
To join that Great Spirit in the Sky
Where all good souls are sent -
Many humane, heroic stories
Were written 'long the way -
A monument, for one of them -
Still stands until this day -
It seems one noble woman
It was Chief Ross' wife -
Gave her blanket to a sick child
And in so doing, gave her life -
She is buried in an unmarked grave -
Dug shallow near the "Trail" -
Just one more tragic ending
In this tragic, shameful tale -
Mother Nature showed no mercy
Till they reached the end of the line
When that fateful journey ended
On March twenty-sixth, eighteen thirty-nine.
Each mile of this infamous "Trail"
Marks the graves of four who died -
Four thousand poor souls in all
Marks the shame we try to hide.

You still can hear them crying
Along "The Trail Of Tears"
If you listen with your heart
And not with just your ears.



The preceding was partly inspired by a story told to children by John
Burnett on the occasion of his eightieth birthday in 1890. It was printed in
a book titled "Cherokee Legends And The Trail Of Tears", adapted by Thomas
Bryan Underwood.
My main inspiration, though is the shame and disgust I feel as I learn more
about the atrocities perpetrated by our forefathers and the injustices which
still occur to the true Native Americans.
John Burnett was a Private in an infantry company which took part in the
Cherokee Removal of 1838-1839.
Near the end of his story he says, in part, "Future generations will read
and condemn the act .....".




Do we?


In closing he says, "However, murder is murder whether committed by the
villain skulking in the dark or by uniformed men stepping to the strains of
martial music.
Murder is murder and somebody must answer, somebody must explain the streams
of blood that flowed in the Indian country in the summer of 1838.
Somebody must explain the four thousand silent graves that mark the trail of
the Cherokees to their exile. I wish I could forget it all, but the picture
of six hundred and forty-five wagons lumbering over the frozen ground with
their Cargo of suffering humanity still lingers in my memory.
Let the historian of a future day tell the sad story with its' sighs, its'
tears and dying groans. Let the great Judge of all the earth weigh our
actions and reward us according to our work."


If only it worked that way!

walkswithcoyotes
12-10-2003, 15:47
Abe, this is a very moving verse! And I have to ask that people try to understand in this day in age who the real terrorist are, in our history's past.

Every year here in Athens, Al. they have an event that is held by the Harley-Daviidson riders from all over the U.S. It is the Ride for the Trail Tears. Harley riders from all over the country meet in Chattanooga,Tn and embark on a ride from there to Waterloo,Al, you should see pictures of that place after they leave, it would make you puke!, and then on to Oklahoma, to the Cherokee Nation represented there. I really don't have a problem with people wanting to honor the Cherokee and the act of terror that was released on them. But to see people riding through our town, some 100,000 of them, with American Flags being displayed on their motorcycles, and the event being displayed as a patriotic event, in the wake of 9/11 and the Iraqi and Afganistan conflicts gauls me to no end. How terrorized were the people of the Cherokee Nation, being stripped of their homes and land, and moved to someplace that nobody would want to live, sorry no offense to you living in Okla., but to be removed from the beautiful mountains of N.C. to a place like that, where on the way so many women and children died from being driven by foot, to their death! My wife is a decendant of that awful time. Her great, great, great, grandmother escaped from that atrocity, in Elgin, Al. along the Trail of Tears and was hidden from Union soldiers that carried out this act of terror. I am proud to be part of her heritage and it has help me to understand the way of our great american natives and their culture and spirit, and the Spirit of the Earth!

Just wanted to share my thoughts on this one! Thanks and Peace to all of you!

Kyle & Lisa
12-10-2003, 16:57
walkswithcoyotes says "And I have to ask that people try to understand in this day in age who the real terrorist are, in our history's past"

What the heck does that mean--we're not dealing with "real" terrorists today? Be careful--this is a hiking forum, that's all.



Abe, this is a very moving verse! And I have to ask that people try to understand in this day in age who the real terrorist are, in our history's past.

Every year here in Athens, Al. they have an event that is held by the Harley-Daviidson riders from all over the U.S. It is the Ride for the Trail Tears. Harley riders from all over the country meet in Chattanooga,Tn and embark on a ride from there to Waterloo,Al, you should see pictures of that place after they leave, it would make you puke!, and then on to Oklahoma, to the Cherokee Nation represented there. I really don't have a problem with people wanting to honor the Cherokee and the act of terror that was released on them. But to see people riding through our town, some 100,000 of them, with American Flags being displayed on their motorcycles, and the event being displayed as a patriotic event, in the wake of 9/11 and the Iraqi and Afganistan conflicts gauls me to no end. How terrorized were the people of the Cherokee Nation, being stripped of their homes and land, and moved to someplace that nobody would want to live, sorry no offense to you living in Okla., but to be removed from the beautiful mountains of N.C. to a place like that, where on the way so many women and children died from being driven by foot, to their death! My wife is a decendant of that awful time. Her great, great, great, grandmother escaped from that atrocity, in Elgin, Al. along the Trail of Tears and was hidden from Union soldiers that carried out this act of terror. I am proud to be part of her heritage and it has help me to understand the way of our great american natives and their culture and spirit, and the Spirit of the Earth!

Just wanted to share my thoughts on this one! Thanks and Peace to all of you!

icemanat95
12-10-2003, 17:28
Having attended the memorial service for one friend who was killed by impact and.or incineration on the first airplane that was rammed into the WTC on September 11th, I have no illusions about the reality of the current situation in the world. Some folks are willing to overlook this in blind opposition to the current administration and it's policies. Instead they choose to turn the blame on the US just as some try to turn the blame for the rape on the victim. They wring their hands and try to figure out what we did to deserve it, failing to see the bottom line truth, that there is nothing we did to deserve it, it's just that there are some people in this world who just want to kill, and will seize onto whatever ideology allows them to do so without guilt or remorse. Wahabi Islam is such an ideology, and terrorists use it to justify their murderous impulses. The fact of the matter is that there is evil in the world, and ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

Was the Jackson administration wrong and even evil in forcibly relocating the Cherokee? You betcha. Does that have ANY bearing on 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq and the current war on terror? Nope. Does anyone living today bear even the smallest amount of responsibility for The Trail of Tears? Nope. Should we forget about it? Nope. Should we waste time and energy wringing our hands over it either? Nope.

Fox
12-10-2003, 17:39
walkswithcoyotes says "And I have to ask that people try to understand in this day in age who the real terrorist are, in our history's past"

What the heck does that mean--we're not dealing with "real" terrorists today? Be careful--this is a hiking forum, that's all.

Why not attack the originator of the thread as well? Is this a hiking topic?

I too am a descedant of the original ridge runners. My great grandmother was Cherokee and I am extremely proud of that heritage. I think the only point walkswithcoyotes was making was that our past is not free of acts of real terror perpetuated in the name of our government.

Abe
Very nice verse.

walkswithcoyotes
12-10-2003, 17:46
Thank You! Fox! I'm glad you understand. I'm sorry for any comments that may have offended anyone. I'm sorry for all the violence we live with!

asmtroop3
12-10-2003, 19:40
The Cherokee Nation has a wonderfully educational and enlightening web site.
I doubt if they spend or allow any time to hiking the AT on that site.

I respect the entire indigenous population of this continent and actually teach Native American studies locally but I keep my discussions to the point of the site and not waste others time with politics.

asmtroop3, AKA okpik

asmtroop3
12-10-2003, 19:45
I think the only point walkswithcoyotes was making was that our past is not free of acts of real terror perpetuated in the name of our government.
Abe


Just remember that history always has three versions.
The winners
The losers
The truth

Fox
12-10-2003, 20:14
Just remember that history always has three versions.
The winners
The losers
The truth

Sorry? Is there a contextual objective to this that I'm missing? I don't think the comments I made that you're referencing inferred any judgement on my part. I was merely attempting clarity.

asmtroop3
12-10-2003, 21:52
Sorry? Is there a contextual objective to this that I'm missing?
Yes, there is but I'm going hiking or talk about hiking or snowshoeing or something relative.

GO in peace. :D

smokymtnsteve
12-10-2003, 22:08
I have ancestors who were N. GA Cherokee too...

they were not allowed to live in peace...

the AT passes thru land taken from the cherokee..it is part of the history of the area of the AT..

this site is about the AT and its culture and history ....not just about hiking in general..so discussions about the cherokee and other Mtn history is perfectly OK to talk about on this site...

although the AT does not pass thru the Cherokee reservation in NC...it passes within view and on lands where Tsali lead the remnants of the people when they were under attack from USA...some of them my kinfolk.

Fox
12-11-2003, 08:04
Yes, there is but I'm going hiking or talk about hiking or snowshoeing or something relative.

GO in peace. :D

Fair enough and point well made. I think I'll join you in like minded pursuits.;)

asmtroop3
12-11-2003, 15:04
Fair enough and point well made. I think I'll join you in like minded pursuits.;)

Hope to see you around a fire circle between here and there some day and we can share on these things in a proper forum. ;)

ga>me>ak
12-12-2003, 12:46
Hey Geronimo.... they're still stealing your horses. The hawk and the sparrow, and the wolf and the buffalo wanted you to know.

The Supreme Court judge ruling on this case about 1-1/2 yrs ago said it was the most blatant case of deception, lies, and bs he had ever seen. Since way back when, the gov has kept the royalties, mineral lease money, sale of lands,etc, all of the monies made from Indian lands, because the Indians were to stupid to do their own finances.The gov was "helping them". This money was put into accounts to be distributed to the Indians. Payments were, at best sporadic, if at all. There is still money collected to this day. However, there is bascally no bookkeeping for the account, and funds are used for all kinds of other projects.. none of it Indian related. The judge estimated that the US GOV owes Native Americans close ot 40 BILLION. Maybe after building Iraq for 80 Billion, Congress will approve the budget to take care of this mess......yeh.
Just something interesting to think about, I hope.

Lone Wolf
12-12-2003, 12:52
Just let em build more casinos. They'll recoup the 40 billion off the dumb, greety white man in no time.

ga>me>ak
12-12-2003, 12:55
Just let em build more casinos. They'll recoup the 40 billion off the dumb, greety white man in no time.


Your right. How ironic, they'll be getting the money that was stolen from them in the first place.

gravityman
12-12-2003, 14:18
Just let em build more casinos. They'll recoup the 40 billion off the dumb, greety white man in no time.

Unfortunately the money isn't really doing all the much for the tribes, as most of it still ends up in the hands of the person who financed the whole thing (yes, he is usually white and rich already). And the Native American's end up frequenting the place as well, losing whatever they gained. Most people out here in the West will tell you that the casinos haven't helped them at all.

Sound's like a great idea. But it's manipulated to not work out so well.

Maybe the Connecticut Native American's are doing better with it...

Gravity man

Sand Crab
12-13-2003, 12:00
Ahh, makes me really miss the good, old days when only Indians robbed, enslaved, and killed other Indians. Things were soooo much better then! There weren't all those irritating worries about the mighty dollar, political correctness BS, and handwringing.

Lone Wolf
12-14-2003, 11:42
I remember the days when the stronger African tribes kidnapped and sold the weak Africans to the slave traders.

RagingHampster
12-14-2003, 12:54
Well I'm kinda bored, so I figured I'd make a response.

First of all, I think this is a totally relevant topic to this forum, and enjoy discussing topics such as these with people who are not fanatical about their opinion.

It is my opinion that Humans are no differnet than animals, and as such we compete for territory, food, mates, and fall under all of mother natures rules. We may have another level of self-consciousness in that we have a "super-ego", but in the end we are all bound by eating, drinking, sleeping, excreteing, and reproducing. You need only listen to the stories of people stranded in the wilderness to understand this. If rescued, they are often permanently changed and view many of the superficial aspects of modern western life as glass castles.

When European explorers came to America, they found a wealth of new resources and land. Under stifled conditions, animals naturally expand. They then competed for the land with the current inhabitats (native americans), and took it over. It's happened for thousands of years and will increase in occurence as populations continue to expand. Guilt is a superficiality. When it comes down to life and death, most people will do whatever it takes to live unless they are truely fanatics of egotistical ideals.

On a related topic, species always have a worker force. Whether it's the slavery of Africans and Carribeans, chemically induced servitude of the worker class of ants, or even the apparent freedom of the modern day worker who seems to always work for just enough money to buy basic life sustaining services. This is essentially indentured servitude with a political smile. Then again, certain dominant animals also enjoy heightened standards of living whether your a silverback mountain gorilla, or American who can spend thousands of dollars and months of their time leisurely hiking in the wilds while people around the world cling to life with distended stomachs and a few grains of rice.

To combat our heightened level of self-consciousness, we've developed the ability to down-ramp this "guilt" with self-delusion and distance ourselves from it. Then again we could also be truthful with ourselves about our actions, but that tends to interfere with the core of most peoples ego. I personally see it as a fact of nature, and have adapted my superficial purposes to it.

Remembering history is very important though. It helps us learn from our mistakes, increases the effectiveness of our choices and adaptations, and allows our species to expand, further exacerbating and producing more problems.

Just my $0.02.

Rain Man
12-14-2003, 15:37
It is my opinion that Humans are no differnet than animals, and as such we compete for territory, food, mates, and fall under all of mother natures rules.

...
Remembering history is very important though. It helps us learn from our mistakes, increases the effectiveness of our choices and adaptations, and allows our species to expand, further exacerbating and producing more problems.

I suspect you'd love Jeff Diamond's history of mankind book, "Guns, Germs, and Steel."

Rain Man
.