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rday
09-30-2007, 23:06
Just took my dog for his first hike in Otter Creek. I noticed very soon he wasn't drinking as much as he should. I had bought him one of those collapsable REI bowls, which he does use after he eats at home. Well, when we got to the trail he would only drink from that bowl after he ate, not while hiking.

Twice I sat down and wouldn't let him move until he had drank at least a little bit. I admit, he only used the bowl for two days at home, I figured he didn't have a problem because he would use it. I'm wondering if anyone has had a problem keeping their dog hydrated. Maybe I just didn't give him enough time to get used to the bowl, or maybe I have to force him to drink?

Appalachian Tater
09-30-2007, 23:18
Maybe it has a plastic taste he finds unpleasant unless it is masked with food?

Maybe he knew he needed electrolytes so wouldn't drink plain water but then would drink after eating?

How would you force him to drink? Would that be wise?

Was he still urinating sufficiently and was his urine of normal color? Or did he have whatever the early signs of dehydration are in a dog?

Do dogs need as much of an increase in water when active as humans do? I know their body temperature regulation does not depend on sweating or evaporation.

However, a vet in a trail town told me he gets a LOT of dehydrated hiker dogs, sometimes several in one day during the summer, so dehydration is definitely a problem.

rday
09-30-2007, 23:33
By forcing, I would just sit with him, and stop hiking, until he licked the water a few times(this would take around 15-20 minutes of just sitting). That does sound harse though, I hope people don't think I am running water down his throat. Whenever I would just stop to rest, or look at the trees, I would fill his bowl and just dump it after he didnt' drink.

He was no longer urinating. He would certainley try, but nothing would come out. This is when I started to get worried and would stop walking until he would drink something.

I thought I may just be worrying about him, but when we got home he drank a full bowl of water from his "official" water bowl. That is when I decided to ask.

Appalachian Tater
09-30-2007, 23:46
Maybe you should let him use the hiking bowl all the time to make sure he's very well used to it since it won't be in a familiar location which makes it harder to recognize as his.

It may also be that he is only used to drinking when he eats.

The water may have had a strange flavor. Crumbling up a couple of pieces of food in it might make him like it better by giving it a familiar taste.

You might also pretend to drink out of the bowl so he knows it's okay.

You were right to be worried since he was unable to urinate.

I am at a loss as to exactly why he would refuse to drink if he so obviously needed water.

What has he done about eating and drinking when he has been away from home before? I know from experience that some domesticated animals will not eat, drink, urinate, or defecate in unfamiliar conditions.

Rouen
10-01-2007, 00:09
going off from what tater said, can you wash it to get any plastic taste out?
try giving him a week with home usage of the bowl so he can get use to it and you can better monitor the situation.

SteveJ
10-01-2007, 01:10
I quit using the REI collapsible bowl for a couple of reasons. It seemed to stay wet, keeping Phoebe's pack wet. After a while, the seams, apparently from being folded while collapsed, kept it from staying upright. Would stay upright enough to keep the water in, but would close up enough to make it hard for her to drink out of. Went with a small round tupperware bowl - close enough to what she drinks out of at home that it's never been a problem....of course, I've seen her drink an entire litre of water in about 2 or 3 minutes when we've been hiking in warm weather - which is why she usually stays at home during my warm weather trips.....

N9ZYE
10-01-2007, 07:13
I took my dog on a weekend trip this summer. When I stopped for a break, I offered water and a treat. He would not take a puppy treat at all. He did not drink until I set up camp. He ate very little of his food that evening. I figure he was out of his comfort zone. I have not taken him back to the trail again. Maybe we will try again sometime.

Jan LiteShoe
10-01-2007, 08:29
As a side note: If your dog is comfortable with it, an excellent, ultra-lightweight doggie bowl is the Glad "Stand N' Zip" gallon plastic bags.

The bags stand on their own when filled with water, and weigh next to nothing when dumped. Roll the enges down a few times to make a "bowl." I may have gotten this idea from Superman and his white shepherd Winter. I use the versatile bags as a portable "laundy and wash tub" during my hikes.

But the "dog bowl" concept impressed me the most, and I keep one in the car for my traveling companion.

frieden
10-01-2007, 09:36
Yes, force your dog to drink!

This is a training issue. Just like some dogs are trained to sit, every time the handler stops walking, train your dog to drink at ever break. With Ed, I use the command "vusser" (I am probably spelling that wrong).

Start out at home, by saying "get your water", and pointing to the water bowl. Say it in the excited, high-pitched playful voice you use (not so much to get the dog excited, but you don't want him to think you are angry with him). When he doesn't do it, say your wrong command (no, nein, etc) in your deep command bark voice, and repeat the water command - holding a treat the entire time. Stick your finger in the water, if needed. The instant he touches the water, say "yes! good vusser!", and give him the treat. Make a big deal out of it, with lots of love. Do that often enough, so he'll understand what "get your water" or "vusser" means.

Ed and I take lots and lots of mini water breaks (less than 5 min). We both drink our water at the same time. He used to do the same thing, but now he'll drink his water at every break. If I have to use a command to get him to drink his water now, then I know he's overtired or overheated, and I make the break longer.

You may think that by taking so many breaks, we'd never make any time, but the opposite is true. I have learned to hike at the speed of Ed, which means we hike fast. If we are hiking with someone, the long breaks allow the person to catch up.

Adam B
10-01-2007, 11:11
Rday you are right to be concerned this is a serious issue. Your dog was clearly dehydrated. If this behaviour extends to normal drinking have the dog evaluated by a vet because some illnesses can manifest this way. As a stopgap measure consider adding fruit juice, salt, bullion, ice cubes, oil etc. You can also boil water into his dry food to increase his water consumption.

You need to also consider temperature of the dog, water and environment. If it is too hot or cold the dog may refuse water. You can try warming the water slightly or putting the bowl in an appropriately sized hole in the ground. Some dogs refuse water because they insist on moving water, i.e. toilet bowl, streams or those special water feeders. If this is the case a water bottle that you can spray out might do the trick.

First step is throughly wash the bowl in the washing machine and then rinse carefully and set to dry in the sun if possible. Now that the bowl is in optimal condition consider, is this the bowl you want to use whenever you hike? If so you might try removing the regular water bowl and replacing with this bowl. This is could be a matter of conditioning. Make sure the bowl is large enough for him to fully open his muzzle while drinking without touching the sides. You may just have to carry the extra couple of grams and bring his regular water bowl. Does he normally drink around people at home. He may simply be uncomfortable with drinking in front of you.

If on the other all of these things fail, you are probably looking a behavioral issue. I would at that point recommend removing regular access to water around the home and providing it say every hour along with a command to drink. If he doesn't drink remove the bowl and try again in an hour. Repeat until he drinks. Once he drinks, go nuts, praise him, give him a treat After a week of doing this he should be able to drink on command.

In terms of water consumption, it goes up with energy output. My guy gets most of his water from diet and when we are working he will drink extra but at home doesn't touch his water bowl unless he has been playing. Each has their own needs. I would calculate how much water he drinks at home without and after play/work. That will give you good estimate of base amounts.

Finally if you can't resolve this on your own I would ask a good trainer in your area to help you work through this. If this ever occurs again while hiking stop and get things under control before continuing. If you aren't able to resolve this you should not take your dog with you hiking, you could cause serious injury to the dog. Best of luck rday and please feel free to PM if you need some more help with your pup.

Adam

mudhead
10-01-2007, 17:05
I have never had, been around, or heard of a dog that will not drink water unless sick or injured.

I have heard of dogs that would not eat a particular type of food. That I smile about...

What is up with these animals?

rday
10-01-2007, 17:36
Thanks for all the good information. I may just scrap the REI bowl and use his normal dish. I'll test out with some long dayhikes, and let people know if I have any problems. Thanks again!

shelterbuilder
10-01-2007, 18:11
Just took my dog for his first hike in Otter Creek. I noticed very soon he wasn't drinking as much as he should. I had bought him one of those collapsable REI bowls, which he does use after he eats at home. Well, when we got to the trail he would only drink from that bowl after he ate, not while hiking.

Twice I sat down and wouldn't let him move until he had drank at least a little bit. I admit, he only used the bowl for two days at home, I figured he didn't have a problem because he would use it. I'm wondering if anyone has had a problem keeping their dog hydrated. Maybe I just didn't give him enough time to get used to the bowl, or maybe I have to force him to drink?

I see this sort of thing frequently with sled dogs - they NEED water, but don't want to drink. Try "baiting" the water with "tuna juice" from the can, or beef or chicken pan drippings - if if smells like the dog's favorite meat or fish, they tend to drink more.:D

mudhead
10-01-2007, 19:29
Why do they not want to drink? Or is it a volume issue you speak of?

shelterbuilder
10-01-2007, 19:41
Why do they not want to drink? Or is it a volume issue you speak of?

Some dogs - like some people - are just head cases! They are okay at home, but won't drink enough on the trail. Some will drink too much, throw it all up, and decide that they "can't" drink until they're back at the truck (or home). For others, I suspect that it's the "need" for familiar surroundings before they feel "secure" enough to lower their guard enough to drink.

Training can help some dogs, but baiting their water is just easier sometimes. And it's cheaper than a trip to the doggie-shrink.;)

mudhead
10-01-2007, 19:50
I sure hope they have other redeeming qualities...

Like the biker that got chomped by the bear in WA. Needs two new dogs.

I am sure if I had one of these head cases, I would save tuna juice for it.

shelterbuilder
10-01-2007, 20:18
Yeah, they do - but after they worm their way into your heart, it doesn't really matter. The stuff that you can "train away", you do, and the rest of the "head case stuff", you just deal with. (Lots of times, it's the "head case stuff" you miss most when they're gone.)

Adam B
10-01-2007, 22:33
I have to agree some dogs are head cases, my childhood dog decided not to drink one day when she was about 3 years old and for about 5 years refused to drink anything. Ended up at the vet a few times until we just started boiling water into her food. Then one day another dog joined the household and she decided to drink again. That wasn't the only crazy thing she did but it was one of the stranger things.

Uncle Silly
10-10-2007, 13:21
My dog has some drinking issues too. She'll drink at stream crossings when we're hiking, but it's pretty rare for her to drink from her bowl during a snack break. I do try to pause at stream crossings and give her the chance to drink, but I worry about some terrains where streams are rare.

Thanks for the training tips, Frieden, I'll have to work with Katy on that for our next outing.

oldfivetango
10-10-2007, 14:12
My wife actually got our dog to drink some water for her
urinary tract infection by adding some sugar to it!(I doubted
it would work but it did)

Oldfivetango

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 14:37
I always ran water out of my bite valve and Chief will lap it up, he will not drink anything except while eating also unless I stop and he gets some from mine. i also added water to his food get get extra in him. Boston Terriers are not great out door dogs so I have to keep a close eye on him for sure!

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 14:39
My dog has some drinking issues too. She'll drink at stream crossings when we're hiking, but it's pretty rare for her to drink from her bowl during a snack break. I do try to pause at stream crossings and give her the chance to drink, but I worry about some terrains where streams are rare.

Thanks for the training tips, Frieden, I'll have to work with Katy on that for our next outing.

While at the Vet a dog was crapping everywhere and it was BAD, I heard the vet say the dog had gotten Giardia(sp) and I never let Chief drink unless I give it to him. I even asked her and she confirmed that DOGS GET IT ALSO!

Just some info I found, I also learned the hard way to wash the dog bowls real well EVERYDAY!

shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 15:28
Here's another trick - teach your dog to drink out of YOUR CUPPED HAND! I did this with my first Husky. I'd pour a little water out of my bottle into my hand, he'd lap it up, then I'd pour a little more, etc. I found that I wasted less water that way, and it was quicker than digging his water dish out of his pack.

frieden
10-10-2007, 19:44
I finally got Ed to drink out of the CamelBak hose yesterday. Yeah! We hiked in the mountains all day. He was so hot and tired, he didn't care that I didn't have his bowl. Unfortunately, he got into some standing water holes (where the creek had mostly dried up). I didn't pull him out, because he was so over-heated, I thought he might drop. He is sick today, so it will probably cost me a vet visit. :(

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 19:53
yeah gotta watch that. Sorry man.
I said he Chief drank out of the bite valve I left out the cupping my hand part but that is how I do it and he is fine and learned the word water, he still twist his head side ways when I say "want some water" :) Just take care of ED and he will be fine, Chief Crapped in my sleeping bag and Threw up in ten degree weather at 5 am once ten miles from anywhere good to even help :D good thing I love my dog! I washed the sleeping bag a lot and it did get the smell out after months of working on it argg. For some reason this is one of those things that gets me laughing, I know what it's like inside a dirty diaper and you know the zipper got stuck...plus you can't wash a dog in 10 degree weather...it was a yucky ten miles for sure. My good friend Latenight can vouch for the smell :D

Jack Tarlin
10-10-2007, 19:53
So why didn't you have his bowl if you knew you were gonna be out hiking all day on a hot day?

I'm sorry your dog is ill, but this doesn't seem like it had to happen. :-?

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:03
why did my last hiking partner not think to bring a spoon? Things happen.
I wish I had washed Chiefs bowl last time but I never did.
I don't bring a bowl for Chief anymore, he eats dry food out of a ziplock and never minded at all, plus he drinks out of my hand or the cup from my jet boil.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:04
By the way I roll the ziplock down and it seems like a travel bowl just for chief :D

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:04
Here's another trick - teach your dog to drink out of YOUR CUPPED HAND! I did this with my first Husky. I'd pour a little water out of my bottle into my hand, he'd lap it up, then I'd pour a little more, etc. I found that I wasted less water that way, and it was quicker than digging his water dish out of his pack.

Your dog doesn't need to be drinking out of your filthy hand. Really. Do you want him to get sick?????? :eek:

shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 20:07
Your dog doesn't need to be drinking out of your filthy hand. Really. Do you want him to get sick?????? :eek:

I'm not even going there, except to say that my dogs are always licking my hands anyway....

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:08
I finally got Ed to drink out of the CamelBak hose yesterday. Yeah! We hiked in the mountains all day. He was so hot and tired, he didn't care that I didn't have his bowl. Unfortunately, he got into some standing water holes (where the creek had mostly dried up). I didn't pull him out, because he was so over-heated, I thought he might drop. He is sick today, so it will probably cost me a vet visit. :(

You guys, please, dogs get dehydrated and/or overheated very easily. Gee whiz. I talked to a vet last year in a trail town who said he gets dozens and dozens of dehydrated hiking dogs, sometimes several a day.

I know you guys love your dogs but to a third party it seems neglectful. Think of it like this: if it were a child and it were reported there would be problems.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:09
I use hand sanitizer before and after so I wont get sick either and yes I wash it off before he drinks. This is what I do on the go not wanting to stop long and If I am nasty I use the jet boil cup, it has happened.

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:09
I'm not even going there, except to say that my dogs are always licking my hands anyway....

Well, I hope that's not the way you wash them after you use the bathroom. :eek: You can make your dog sick.

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:10
I use hand sanitizer before and after so I wont get sick either and yes I wash it off before he drinks. This is what I do on the go not wanting to stop long and If I am nasty I use the jet boil cup, it has happened.

Okay, good, that makes me feel better. :)

Wait a minute, you're not the same guy!!!

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:10
I also can, will and have carried my dog when he is tired or hot. This is why I like a smaller dog for hiking.

shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 20:12
You guys, please, dogs get dehydrated and/or overheated very easily. Gee whiz. I talked to a vet last year in a trail town who said he gets dozens and dozens of dehydrated hiking dogs, sometimes several a day.

I know you guys love your dogs but to a third party it seems neglectful. Think of it like this: if it were a child and it were reported there would be problems.

I can't speak for the other dog owners, but I tend to be more mindful of the signals my dog is sending me than I am some of the signals that my own body is sending me. I've had tired dogs on the trail, but never dehydrated ones. Dehydrated dogs happen when the owners are not as mindful of the dogs as they should be...for whatever reason.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:14
Okay, good, that makes me feel better. :)

Wait a minute, you're not the same guy!!!

that was funny! Oh yeah I have to carry his small rather heavy arse in the snow and rain due to him not wanting to have anything to do with either lol he loves the inside of my jacket with his head popped out the top. :D

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:14
I also can, will and have carried my dog when he is tired or hot. This is why I like a smaller dog for hiking.

I was actually thinking about that just now, if you hike with a dog you have to be able to carry him or her out if he gets sick or injured.

You're the guy who has the Boston Terrier, right? I love the picture of him on the bus. I have wanted a Frenchie since before they were popular but when I saw that pic I started thinking about one of those little guys instead.

shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 20:14
Okay, good, that makes me feel better. :)

Wait a minute, you're not the same guy!!!

No hand sanitizer, just good, old-fashioned hand washing. Thank you.:D

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:19
I was actually thinking about that just now, if you hike with a dog you have to be able to carry him or her out if he gets sick or injured.

You're the guy who has the Boston Terrier, right? I love the picture of him on the bus. I have wanted a Frenchie since before they were popular but when I saw that pic I started thinking about one of those little guys instead.


I would say he is the best dog I have ever known and most say the same, I could get you the same breeder if you want. I have also not "fixed" him due to him being so good. No leash for 9 days and he saw a bear......did nothing and came to me when I called. he weighs 15 lbs right now and is the standard. I love Frenchies next in line to Bostons! He was 5 months old and did dicks-fontana in 07 :D Great dogs but not good in bad weather...on the other hand size helps with that.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:21
No hand sanitizer, just good, old-fashioned hand washing. Thank you.:D

Good point to make! I do wash my hands also just not as often as the sanitizer.

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:31
I would say he is the best dog I have ever known and most say the same, I could get you the same breeder if you want. I have also not "fixed" him due to him being so good. No leash for 9 days and he saw a bear......did nothing and came to me when I called. he weighs 15 lbs right now and is the standard. I love Frenchies next in line to Bostons! He was 5 months old and did dicks-fontana in 07 :D Great dogs but not good in bad weather...on the other hand size helps with that.

The only problem: do they bark a lot, especially when left alone at home, and could they stand an apartment the size of a mid-range hotel room? The word "terrier" always makes me think "high energy". I know the terriers next door to me as a kid would chase balls for hours, even after their feet were bleeding from running across the concrete.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:48
I have lived in a studio apt for his whole life well except for when I got him I lived in the office of my karate school and that was tiny and no he never barks once he figures out the normal noise range for a location. Plus he shuts up when I tell him too lol that took some work and sometimes I have to act mad to trick him lol he is high energy and low key at the same time. You have to spend time and play with them a little then they chill and relax most of the time. he always passes out when I am still in one place.

chiefdaddy
10-10-2007, 20:50
he did not even bark at at black bear clost to dick's creek in ga.
It is a chore to take a dog for sure but the pay off is a friends for their life!

Appalachian Tater
10-10-2007, 20:57
Well, I will research this some more. Thanks for the info. I hope to meet him one day. I'll bet Ron Haven had a little fun with him.

chiefdaddy
10-11-2007, 21:24
Yeah he was great and I loved his hotel even more knowing it was so dog friendly....that means I go to franklin and spend money everytime I get the chance, it's great for a business to just plain be nice for a change and take care of people. Yet another reason I got the bug and am hiking in march!

frieden
10-13-2007, 09:17
So why didn't you have his bowl if you knew you were gonna be out hiking all day on a hot day?

I'm sorry your dog is ill, but this doesn't seem like it had to happen. :-?

Sorry, my post did sound like we were out all day on foot. We were looking at mountain property. We hiked an 80 ac parcel, and then went back to the truck, walked an 144 ac parcel, and went back to the truck....... The Camelbak was for the in-between-truck times. He had his bowl in the truck, with a cooler full of water.

Good news - he didn't get sick from the water. Bad news - he did get hurt. We were coming down this one mountain, and had to cross a mostly dry creek a number of times. We all slipped on rocks a time or two, but Ed apparently landed on his tail a little too hard on one time. After $400 in Xrays and tests - he doesn't have heartworms, intestinal parasites, etc, but he does have a damaged tail. Have you seen an Xray of the spine of a car accident victim, where the bones are all jammed together? That's what the base of his tail looks like (three bones closest to his butt). The vet gave him a shot, and sent him home to take it easy.

She said that these things just happen, but I know it was my fault. I hadn't trimmed his nails, and they were starting to get long. If I had kept them trimmed, he would have had a better grip on the rocks, and might not have gotten injured.

He knows I feel guilty, and is enjoying the xtra pampering. That's ok, he deserves it!

Gosh, I can't believe I forgot to add this! (only on first cup of coffee) The vet also took Xrays of his hips. She said that the hip displaysia (sp?) hasn't worsened like they thought it would, and it is very minimal. She released Ed for a thru hike of the AT!!!! :banana

chiefdaddy
10-13-2007, 11:00
good news and when you do have something happen it makes you more careful to noever let it happen again. With Chief I am on top of things after the last time he got sick.

Adam B
10-13-2007, 21:39
Frieden, Ed is a service dog right? and he has hip displasia? Could you clarify? I was under the impression that most trainers refused to cert a dog who did have clear penhips, I know I refuse to. Aren't you concerned that the work will irratate his hips? Not trying to be rude, just trying to understand.
Adam

Adam B
10-13-2007, 21:39
I meant did not have clear penhips, opps.

frieden
10-13-2007, 23:07
Frieden, Ed is a service dog right? and he has hip displasia? Could you clarify? I was under the impression that most trainers refused to cert a dog who did have clear penhips, I know I refuse to. Aren't you concerned that the work will irratate his hips? Not trying to be rude, just trying to understand.
Adam

No offense taken. Ed has trained with police and SAR groups, since he was 2 months old. It took about 3 times for me to realize he was alerting on my strokes. With this realization, he became too valuable as a service dog, so I pulled him from SAR training, and got him a personal trainer for service work. What made him so valuable was natural born, but I needed him to be able to perform certain tasks, and behave in a certain way at work. I didn't get the PEN hip Xray done, until he starting sitting funny. I was told he might not have a long working life, and to make sure he took it easy.

I've worked mainly at a desk, and I can't work full time, so he isn't strained there. I watch him like a hawk, and he sees his vet on a regular basis. If I'm not going far, and he seems tired, I'll leave him home. We both have to take it easy, for the most part, so I have learned to slow down. On days off, we'll sit out with the chickens, and soak up the sun. I haven't taken him on an agility field, since his PEN.

This last Xray was great. The ball is a little flat on one side, but there wasn't a gap. He's only 3, so he might have problems later on, but for now, he's ok. Long walks (aka hiking) seems to be the best thing for us. We may want to stay on level ground for awhile, though! :)

Allyson
10-14-2007, 12:25
I wouldn't be too worried about a male dog trying to urinate, but not being able to. That's standard operating procedure for my dog each and every time we go hiking, and he's getting plenty of water because there are many freshwater streams in my area. Remember that he's trying to mark his territory, so it's instinct for him to lift his leg even though there's nothing coming out.

rlharris
10-14-2007, 21:32
This last Xray was great. The ball is a little flat on one side, but there wasn't a gap. He's only 3, so he might have problems later on, but for now, he's ok. Long walks (aka hiking) seems to be the best thing for us. We may want to stay on level ground for awhile, though! :)

Moderate physical exercise (combined with keeping the dog on the lean side) will in many cases help a dog that has mild hip dysplasia. It increases the muscle tone and helps keep the joint together.

Wise Old Owl
02-10-2008, 01:34
I quit using the REI collapsible bowl for a couple of reasons. It seemed to stay wet, keeping Phoebe's pack wet. After a while, the seams, apparently from being folded while collapsed, kept it from staying upright. Would stay upright enough to keep the water in, but would close up enough to make it hard for her to drink out of. Went with a small round tupperware bowl - close enough to what she drinks out of at home that it's never been a problem....of course, I've seen her drink an entire litre of water in about 2 or 3 minutes when we've been hiking in warm weather - which is why she usually stays at home during my warm weather trips.....

Nothing wrong with a collapsable dog bowl, they are tough and lightweight, consider a small light weight biner and attach it to the useless ice axe loops at the bottom of the back pack, Now it will air dry!