View Full Version : Rat sack
Can someone point me to a link where I can buy a rat sack for my AT hike. I have determined I would like one for my food, but I am having a difficult time finding one online.
Thanks,
Kirby
Your post taught me something new today, Kirby.
I was familiar with Ursack (http://www.ursack.com/), but I had never heard of RatSack brand. Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked it up. Here's what I found.
RatSacks are made by:
Armored Outdoor Gear, Inc.
7511 East Horseshoe Acres
Flagstaff, Arizona 86004You can buy directly (http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/BUY%20ME%20PAGE.htm) from the manufacturer. The company website is here (http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/).
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 20:45
$30-$40 for a food bag is outrageous. get a nylon stuff sack for $5 or less
Thank you very much, I have determined this will be worth the extra weight.
Kirby
$30-$40 for a food bag is outrageous. get a nylon stuff sack for $5 or less
And battle the mice all night, 30-40 dollars well spent, I lost a lot of sleep in the 100 mile "wilderness" fighting mice and everything else, I personally thing it will be worth it, there are those who will disagree.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 20:51
And battle the mice all night, 30-40 dollars well spent, I lost a lot of sleep in the 100 mile "wilderness" fighting mice and everything else, I personally thing it will be worth it, there are those who will disagree.
Kirby
don't stay in shelters. problem solved
Will you be hanging your food, Kirby? This bag obviously is not waterproof.
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 20:55
Good lord. That thing is expensive and heavy - and just to protect your food from mice in shelters? Wow, now that is paranoia.
yes, I will still hang my food, it is not bear proof. This is just so that if they get to the bag, they cant get through it.
Campsites are just as bad, when I was in the 100 mile "wilderness", some thtu hikers were telling me all their food sacks were chewed through at the Antler's campsite, they are everywhere, waiting to strike.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 20:57
Good lord. That thing is expensive and heavy - and just to protect your food from mice in shelters? Wow, now that is paranoia.
inexperience and unwillingness to listen to others in-the-know :)
If you don't hang your food on the rope and can things in the shelters or the bear cables/poles, mice will never find it. They learn that those places always contain food. Every time I hang my food on a tree away from the shelter and bear cables, mice never got into it.
Good lord. That thing is expensive and heavy - and just to protect your food from mice in shelters? Wow, now that is paranoia.
Again, some people think it is rediculous, after loosing endless amounts of sleep on my trip, and with a relatively light pack for my thru, I am willing to deal with the weight(1 pound I believe). I have put a lot of though into this, and i think it is worth it, from my vantage point. No doubt, some of you think I am a silly young boy.
Kirby
inexperience and unwillingness to listen to others in-the-know :)
Pointless comment. I have put endless amounts of work into this hike, I am willing to listen, but in the end, this is my hike, and i will carry what I please. If you dont like it, I will be sure not to visit you when I role through your town.
kirby
If you don't hang your food on the rope and can things in the shelters or the bear cables/poles, mice will never find it. They learn that those places always contain food. Every time I hang my food on a tree away from the shelter and bear cables, mice never got into it.
Your advice has been noted, thank you.
Kirby
Cheap nylon (not silnylon) sack, hung in the usual manner... in shelters, even. Never had a problem with that. It doesn't need to be waterproof; every item inside is in its original wrapper and/or a ziploc.
Kirby,
I won't tell you what gear to use. It's your choice, your money, your hike. But I will suggest that you don't rush to purchase. Give this some thought; your hike is still months away. You have time to change your mind, many times, before the start of your trek.
Well, I had a problem every night on my shakedown hike, and I determined my solution, maybe it was just the wilderness, maybe I will not need it until then, but I am going to have it.
Kirby
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 21:02
Good luck with that thing. I see a new trail name coming based on it though. Try not to have thin skin when someone calls you skeeter sack or something like that.
Kirby,
I won't tell you what gear to use. It's your choice, your money, your hike. But I will suggest that you don't rush to purchase. Give this some thought; your hike is still months away. You have time to change your mind, many times, before the start of your trek.
I will be giving it more thought, I will not make my final decision until early next year, just something I am highly considering right now.
kirby
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 21:03
Pointless comment. I have put endless amounts of work into this hike, I am willing to listen, but in the end, this is my hike, and i will carry what I please. If you dont like it, I will be sure not to visit you when I role through your town.
kirby
Actually, by the time you reach Damascus, there's a decent chance you'll be a bit more agreeable to Wolf's advice.
Well, this sure has been fun. I will learn not to ask for anymore advice on this site, I let the dogs out of their cage. Thanks for that Rock.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 21:06
Pointless comment. I have put endless amounts of work into this hike, I am willing to listen, but in the end, this is my hike, and i will carry what I please. If you dont like it, I will be sure not to visit you when I role through your town.
kirby
don't get defensive but i've got 16,000+ more AT miles than you. don't ask folks for opinions if you want to "carry what you please". just hike then. you seem to know eveything.
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 21:06
Well, this sure has been fun. I will learn not to ask for anymore advice on this site, I let the dogs out of their cage. Thanks for that Rock.
Kirby
Heck. You only want advice that reinforces what you already decided to do anyway?
Well, I had a problem every night on my shakedown hike...
Just curious, what kind of food were you carrying? How did you package it? How did you deal with "garbage" -- used packaging, crumbs, etc?
Hey, look at it this way. If you like it, then carry it. If you don't, send it home at Neels Gap. Won't be the first time someone sent something home after discovering they hate it.
NO. I asked for websites pointing me to the piece of gear I was looking for. I do believe it was LW who put me on the deffensive, maybe you all should learn how to keep the threads to their intended point, read the opening post i made. No where in there did it ask for advice, if i wanted advice, I would have said so. I just wanted a website to look into it more.
Kirby
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 21:08
See, you already are getting a thin skin.
Here is the thing: if you ask for advice be prepared to talk about it and maybe take it. Don't start by asking for advice on it if you are not going to listen. That is how advice works.
As for all that, I am sure you had problems in the 100 mile wilderness. But you have to ask yourself how everyone else makes it without that thing rather than decide that is the solution despite no one else using one and making it successfully.
Just curious, what kind of food were you carrying? How did you package it? How did you deal with "garbage" -- used packaging, crumbs, etc?
I carried typical hiker food, rahmen, some freexe drieds, cliff bars, some other energy bars etc. I stored my garbage at night with all my food.
Kirby
" Can someone point me to a link where I can buy a rat sack for my AT hike. I have determined I would like one for my food, but I am having a difficult time finding one online."
My original post.
Kirby
In Kirby's defense, he wasn't soliciting opinions about the RatSack, yet that is what many offered.
His first post asked for a link to the website.
As an alternative suggestion... I have used this stuff sack for a month of Sundays camping in known areas of mousal infestation... never had a problem. An as stated before, they are fairly smart and know where to look/the usual places. Just hang away from the usual... this might save you some weight and $$.
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/home/style/home/storage/storage_stuffsacks/HPS
I carried typical hiker food, rahmen, some freexe drieds, cliff bars, some other energy bars etc. I stored my garbage at night with all my food.
Kirby
What did you do with the leftover wrappers?
, maybe you all should learn how to keep the threads to their intended point,
Kirby
Just hang around a little longer, you'll learn THAT is NOT going to happen around here!!
What did you do with the leftover wrappers?
Since I was in the wilderness with no place to dispose of it, it remained in a ziplock bag in one of my food sacks.
Kirby
" Can someone point me to a link where I can buy a rat sack for my AT hike. I have determined I would like one for my food, but I am having a difficult time finding one online."
My original post.
Kirby
In Kirby's defense, he wasn't soliciting opinions about the RatSack, yet that is what many offered.
His first post asked for a link to the website.
Sumbitch, I'm thinking like a 16 year old kid! :eek:
in one of my food sacks.
Kirby
OK, how many food sacks were there?
Hey, look at it this way. If you like it, then carry it. If you don't, send it home at Neels Gap. Won't be the first time someone sent something home after discovering they hate it.That's for sure!!
For my experience, I've never had mice get into my foodbag. I like to tent near shelters and hang a silnylon food bag away from the shelter. It has a loop sewn into the bottom so it hangs upside down. Helps shed water and perhaps mice, too :D
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 21:16
" Can someone point me to a link where I can buy a rat sack for my AT hike. I have determined I would like one for my food, but I am having a difficult time finding one online."
My original post.
Kirby
Your post taught me something new today, Kirby.
I was familiar with Ursack (http://www.ursack.com/), but I had never heard of RatSack brand. Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked it up. Here's what I found.
RatSacks are made by:
Armored Outdoor Gear, Inc.
7511 East Horseshoe Acres
Flagstaff, Arizona 86004You can buy directly (http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/BUY%20ME%20PAGE.htm) from the manufacturer. The company website is here (http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/).
Roland answered your query in the second thread post.
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 21:17
" Can someone point me to a link where I can buy a rat sack for my AT hike. I have determined I would like one for my food, but I am having a difficult time finding one online."
My original post.
KirbyAnd if you asked where to get a hammer to drive your stakes in we would probably tell you to use a rock on the trail. Advice can be more than your narrow definition. Lighten up.
In Kirby's defense, he wasn't soliciting opinions about the RatSack, yet that is what many offered.
His first post asked for a link to the website.
See above. You know anyone that needs that sort of protection on the AT?
As an alternative suggestion... I have used this stuff sack for a month of Sundays camping in known areas of mousal infestation... never had a problem. An as stated before, they are fairly smart and know where to look/the usual places. Just hang away from the usual... this might save you some weight and $$.
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/home/style/home/storage/storage_stuffsacks/HPS
See, another good suggestion that isn't the metal stuff sack.
Just hang around a little longer, you'll learn THAT is NOT going to happen around here!!
Exactly. Advice for the young is sometimes something that tells them something they don't want to hear.
OK, how many food sacks were there?
Three. One for breakfast and snacks, one for lunch, and one for dinner.
Kirby
Since I was in the wilderness with no place to dispose of it, it remained in a ziplock bag in one of my food sacks.
OK, I'm baffled then, as to why the mice gave you such a hard time. My point was to be somewhat anal about food packaging... sometimes to the point of double- or triple-bagging certain items. (Items that smell need more layers.)
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 21:22
Three. One for breakfast and snacks, one for lunch, and one for dinner.
Kirby
you'll learn on your own.but only 1 food bag is needed
you'll learn on your own.
I wanted to carry only one, but it would not all fit in one, and was really crammed in two, which is why I went with three. If I buy one mmore large one, I can fit all the food in two instead of three, right now I have one large and two medium.
Kirby
Kirby never asked for opinions on the feasibility of using a RatSack on the AT. Yet, many of you offered just that. And then you criticized him for not heeding your advice.
Kirby said he would not rush to purchase; that he would consider your opinions and give this more thought. I think that's a fair answer. Give the kid a break; he's 16 years old.
OK, I'm baffled then, as to why the mice gave you such a hard time. My point was to be somewhat anal about food packaging... sometimes to the point of double- or triple-bagging certain items. (Items that smell need more layers.)
I was told by a ridgerunner at Baxter State Park it has been a bad year for mice, it may have just been the wilderness. All the thru hikers I talked to in there said the mice had not really been an issue until the wilderness, that could explain, they were everywhere though.
Kirby
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 21:27
Kirby never asked for opinions on the feasibility of using a RatSack on the AT. Yet, many of you offered just that. And then you criticized him for not heeding your advice.
Kirby said he would not rush to purchase; that he would give consider your opinions and give this more thought. I think that's a fair answer. Give the kid a break; he's 16 years old.
We would give him a break except he's pretty sharp and likes to play with the big kids.
No doubt Kirby will be just fine.
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 21:28
Kirby never asked for opinions on the feasibility of using a RatSack on the AT. Yet, many of you offered just that. And then you criticized him for not heeding your advice.
Kirby said he would not rush to purchase; that he would consider your opinions and give this more thought. I think that's a fair answer. Give the kid a break; he's 16 years old.
Yes, but if he goes out on the trail with one of those sacks, he really does need to be prepared for people making fun of it.
Are you sure they were "mice?"
Are you sure they were "mice?"
Yes. A vast majority of the time, it was mice, red squirrels some times, but they were indeed mice, and fearless ones at that.
Kirby
We would give him a break except he's pretty sharp and likes to play with the big kids.
No doubt Kirby will be just fine.
Thank you,
Kirby
Did I read correctly that you are taking SIX (6) books with you so you can finish your school work?
Did I read correctly that you are taking SIX (6) books with you so you can finish your school work?
No, one a month. When I finish one, I send it home and have a new one sent to me, no way in hell am I carry six books with me.
Kirby
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 21:34
Thank you,
Kirby
I still think it's retarded to carry a ratsack. :D
Lone Wolf
10-02-2007, 21:36
I still think you're retarded to carry a ratsack. :D
you can tell a 16 year old but you can't tell him much.
SGT Rock
10-02-2007, 21:37
Can you get those books transfered to PDF and look at them on an IPOD or something?
I still think it's retarded to carry a ratsack. :D
And you are indeed intitled to your opinion.
LW:No idea what that is supposed to mean, but all the power to you.
Kirby
Can you get those books transfered to PDF and look at them on an IPOD or something?
That is an interesting idea that I will look into.
Kirby
Have you volunteered to do any trail maintenance Kirby?
Yes. I have volunteered for MATC on a couple of ocassions, I am thinking about defering a year before I go to college and working with the Student Conservation Corps on a 10 month program that is focused around trail maintanance and conservation.
Kirby
Good, then maybe you'll go fix all those trails that you so easily criticized in your TJ...
Good, then maybe you'll go fix all those trails that you so easily criticized in your TJ...
Indeed I will, some parts of that section were very poorly maintained, but that is a different story.
Kirby
you can tell a 16 year old but you can't tell him much.Sounds like me when I was 16...
Too many young candy-asses today. Nice to see a kid who doesn't mind doing it his way, even if it is the hard way. Especially if it is the hard way.
Rick Hancock
10-02-2007, 22:03
Kirby,
I would be inclined to leave the metal/mesh stuff sacks at home. They don't look like they would conform to pack confines very easy, You may find that you are trying to fit gear around them more often than not. Also, a mouse may get pissed off enough that he pee's on the sack! In my experience simple is better and overkill sometimes bites you in the butt. Good luck on your hike. Rick
Appalachian Tater
10-02-2007, 22:05
Hey Kirby, I must say I am really impressed with the way you are handling all these crusty old hiker know-it-alls. Have you considered a career lion-taming? They are giving you a little bit of a hard time but it is only because they respect you and are impressed with you, and they rarely agree on anything. They wish that they could have thru-hiked at sixteen/seventeen, as do I.
Having a hard head goes along with being determined, goal-oriented, and well organized. You are talking to people who do weird things like sleep in hammocks and pretend that hiking poles are useless. On the other hand, you can learn a lot here and there are hundreds of years' worth of collective hiking experience.
Now, I will tell you that I went 2,000 miles without any problem with mice. Mostly I stayed in my tent with my food in it, which is not a good idea, or if there was a bear cable or box I always used that, or if I stayed in a shelter, I hung my TWO food bags (one for dinner, one for breakfast, lunch and snacks) from the mouse cables. No trouble at all.
Once I hit the 100 Mile Wilderness, a chocoholic mouse chewed through two layers of pack and through a plastic bag to get to some M&Ms. The Maine Mice are smarter than your average mouse. So the danger there may be greater, anecdotally.
None of your equipment decisions are irreversible. You will see all kinds of wierd & useless equipment on the trail, sometimes people carry three or four of the same useless thing, look up Minnesota Smith or Johnny K if you have trouble imagining it. If you decide you don't like or need something, you can send it home or switch it out, as someone else said. Having hiked the 100 Mile Wilderness, you have a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't. Everybody has their pet peeves and most everybody has a luxury item and your pet peeve is mice eating your food and your luxury item is a ratsack. That none of these guys never heard of it means only that, they never heard of it.
It does appear to be a cottage industry and the only place I see to buy one is from the manufacturer. http://armoredoutdoorgear.com/ratsack.htm
There are other alternatives I have seen people use including a red plastic coffee can like this:
http://www2.dupont.com/Packaging/en_US/assets/images/17thawards/folgers.jpg
It is light, cheap, and waterproof, too.
Just to go off in yet another un-asked-for direction... I really like bear canisters. Since I was required to carry one in Yosemite, I used it a few times around here just to get the hang of dealing with having the gigantic thing in my pack. It's great! Totally mouseproof, bearproof, waterproof, crushproof. I may start carrying one all the time.
troglobil
10-02-2007, 22:20
I used the bear cables one time.............................................. .....and the squirrels ate thru my food bag. Food stays in my tent after that.
Blissful
10-02-2007, 22:23
Jumping on the bandwagon.
Having just gone through the hundred mile wilderness a few weeks ago, we did not stay in shelters but camped all the way (the shelters just weren't spaced good and I really enjoyed camping anyway). No problems at all with vermin. Shelters are a problem with mice for certain (we stayed at a couple before Monson) and also chipmunks. If you leave even crumbs around, they will gnaw and chipmunks will steal. One mouse gnawed through my little front pack because I accidentally left something in it. Other than that, we hiked from GA to ME and didn't have any problems at all hanging our food outside or in. We did have to replace our silnylon food bags from wear and tear, and opted for these great bags Wally world now sells (outdoor research 3 pack). We went through three sets of food bags on our hike.
Skidsteer
10-02-2007, 22:36
Just to go off in yet another un-asked-for direction... I really like bear canisters. Since I was required to carry one in Yosemite, I used it a few times around here just to get the hang of dealing with having the gigantic thing in my pack. It's great! Totally mouseproof, bearproof, waterproof, crushproof. I may start carrying one all the time.
HOI seems to like his. Pretty fair camp stool too.
rarely agree on anything. I disagree!!!!
Nightwalker
10-03-2007, 05:55
Yes. A vast majority of the time, it was mice, red squirrels some times, but they were indeed mice, and fearless ones at that.
Kirby
Did you run into many chipmunks in the hundred mile? When I was there last August, they were so funny. When I'd get near a nest, they'd follow me along, chattering and going on like old ladies until I got out of "their" area. It was pretty funny.
Two Speed
10-03-2007, 06:35
Dang, for a minute I thought we were gonna get to rename Kirby "msinanutshell" then I realized he hadn't asked for advice. :p
That said I sure wouldn't want that rat pack thing in my pack.
Kirby, if you want to carry that thing that's your business, but I will offer some unsolicited advice: don't spend the night in shelters or heavily impacted camp sites. You'll get three benefits
You won't need that overweight and overpriced stuff sack
You're far less likely to be bothered by vermin
You're far more likely to find some really great camp sites
Anyway, that's how we do things on Planet Two Speed.
The only mouse-into-food-bag I've had on the AT was also in the 100 mile wilderness, probably Little Wilson Stream, where we found a lovely tentsite and what looked like a perfect branch nearby to hang the food bags - guess the mice thought so too...this was August, so after a couple of months of hikers hanging their food bags on this "perfect branch", the mice caught on.
And they didn't wait til after dark, either - we'd barely hung the thing up, and out came the little guys.
Had to laugh. (It was early in the trip...)
SGT Rock
10-03-2007, 07:29
After thinking about it, I'm also concerned about how a wire mesh sack rubbing against other objects in the pack will most likely start to abrade them like a fine cheese grater.
Kirby, I know you are set on purchasing a Rat Pack. I'm not looking to dissuade you (you're carrying it, not me).
But FWIW, I just want to forewarn you about a post I read somewhere (I thought possibly here on WB although I couldn't locate it) that stated the Rat Pack manufacturer wasn't honoring an order and the purchaser was looking for someway to get his/her money returned (I don't recall the method of payment) and was having a hell of a time. The company wasn't returning phone calls, let alone the money. Some people put the poster in touch with the BBB and the State's Attorney General's office. You may want to do a quick check on the company before you plop down your bucks.
Kirby, I just found the thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22554
Monkeyboy
10-03-2007, 08:09
I've found getting a nylon pull sack and lining it with a sandbag (made from ground cloth material) works well.
I put the food in the sandbag and tie it shut, then place the sandbag in the nylon bag, tying the pull string around the opening of the nylon bag.
This isn't mouse proof, but makes for more time for them to get in.....
Seen nibbles on the cloth, but never got into the bag.
Also, the sandbag helps with weatherproofing.
Lone Wolf
10-03-2007, 08:11
just buy a silnylon stuff sack and sleep with it. very simple.
Quick diversion....what's up with carrying multiple food bags? The one I have (can't remember the brand) isn't even 1/4 the way full with three days food. Did I buy a huge bag or is there some other benefit to having separate meals compartmentalized?
Lone Wolf
10-03-2007, 08:20
Quick diversion....what's up with carrying multiple food bags? The one I have (can't remember the brand) isn't even 1/4 the way full with three days food. Did I buy a huge bag or is there some other benefit to having separate meals compartmentalized?
only one bag is needed. any more is a sign of neurosis
taildragger
10-03-2007, 08:39
Why not look into getting something like an ursack in case you decide to go somewhere where they require bear canisters or the like?
BTW, what are mice? I've never seen these little vermin near my food in the woods, but maybe thats because I camp far away from everyone else
Fiddleback
10-03-2007, 09:09
"Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome (HPS) is a deadly disease from rodents. Humans can contract the disease when they come into contact with infected rodents or their urine and droppings. HPS was first recognized in 1993 and has since been identified throughout the United States. Although rare, HPS is potentially deadly. Rodent control in and around the home remains the primary strategy for preventing hantavirus infection."
"In the United States, deer mice, cotton and rice rats (in the Southeast), and the white-footed mouse (in the Northeast) (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/noframes/rodents.htm), are the only known rodent carriers of hantaviruses causing HPS (but there are other strains of the virus, carried by other rodents, that cause hemorhagic fever with renal syndrome))."
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/noframes/FAQ.htm
Given my current location, I doubt I'll ever hike the AT again. If I do, I know I'll avoid the shelters for the above and other reasons.
And you guys thought all you had to do was filter water...:D
FB
The Cheat
10-03-2007, 09:19
Good luck with that thing. I see a new trail name coming based on it though. Try not to have thin skin when someone calls you skeeter sack or something like that.
They'll take the nut part from your whiteblaze name and the sack part from... oh nevermind.
Johnny Thunder
10-03-2007, 09:39
They'll take the nut part from your whiteblaze name and the sack part from... oh nevermind.
"The Cheat, we did not install that lightswitch so you could throw light-switch-raves"
Why not look into getting something like an ursack in case you decide to go somewhere where they require bear canisters or the like?
Nowhere on the AT is a bear canister currently required. Kirby is making plans for a thruhike of the AT, not some other trail.
However, many places that do require bear canisters do not accept a Ursack as a bear resistant canister due to it being made of soft material. Don't believe me, just check NYSDEC website.
taildragger
10-03-2007, 15:27
Nowhere on the AT is a bear canister currently required. Kirby is making plans for a thruhike of the AT, not some other trail.
However, many places that do require bear canisters do not accept a Ursack as a bear resistant canister due to it being made of soft material. Don't believe me, just check NYSDEC website.
from the DEC
6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."
so, if the aluminum insert is used, the ursack should work, and yes I know that the AT doesn't require a bear can of any sort, its just if you're gonna get an anti-critter bag, why not think ahead with it, carry it on the trail without the insert, if you ever decide to go out west, or to the adirondacks, just take the insert with you.
The Weasel
10-03-2007, 15:31
I've read this thread, and while it's a bit obsessive, it's probably no more so than most gearheads (and we all were, once) engage in.
Still, I'll say this: I've backpacked and canoed in northern Canada, Isle Royale, all over the midwest, big hunks of the south, New England, the AT from GA to southern Virginia, more of the Appalachians, and a few other places. In all that time, I've used a simple nylon stuff bag and either para cord or (now) lacing to "fly" my food, unless I was in a shelter on the AT or a few other places.
Despite the warnings (and presence, I'm sure) of bear, mice, rats, fox (the scrounger-of-choice on Isle Royale), squirrels (ground and red/fox), raccoons, 'possums and snakes, I've had two - two - 'events' in 40 years. Once (on the Bruce Trail) was when my Scouts didn't hang our food bag far enough between two branches, and once when a pack of racoons went crazy when leftover spaghetti and sauce wasn't sealed property (which is just a wonderful story for another time) by a different Scout group. That's in a total of something past a thousand nights.
You pack your food 'clean', keep it separate, hang it wisely, and you don't have problems. Kirby, it's always better to depend on your smarts and skill than on gear. Save your money.
TW
Shane! Come Back!
10-03-2007, 15:55
No doubt, some of you think I am a silly young boy.
Kirby
Far from it. Left a msg. on your Trail Journal. When you get homework assignments, throw the topic out there. . .;)
The Weasel
10-03-2007, 17:57
Again, some people think it is rediculous, after loosing endless amounts of sleep on my trip, and with a relatively light pack for my thru, I am willing to deal with the weight(1 pound I believe). I have put a lot of though into this, and i think it is worth it, from my vantage point. No doubt, some of you think I am a silly young boy.
Kirby
Kirby: First, you're wrong. One pound is weight you don't need. Second, you're wrong. People have said nothing to suggest they think you're silly; you'll need to stop being defensive.
TW
from the DEC
6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."
so, if the aluminum insert is used, the ursack should work, and yes I know that the AT doesn't require a bear can of any sort, its just if you're gonna get an anti-critter bag, why not think ahead with it, carry it on the trail without the insert, if you ever decide to go out west, or to the adirondacks, just take the insert with you.The key word here is perhaps non-pliable.
From the same website (http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7225.html)
Bear Resistant Canisters Facts
Canisters are solid and non-pliable.
Canisters are usually made of a hard plastic, but metal or another material may also be used.
Non-rigid containers or sacks are not considered bear resistant canisters under the regulation.
Canisters weigh 3 to 5 pounds
skinny minnie
10-03-2007, 18:46
This itself is unsolicited advice, I know...
But when in doubt, if you DON'T want unsolicited advice and opinions from others that may possibly deviate from your question...then before you post, just google. Works like a charm. Plus, it takes less time than composing a post and waiting for answers. Near instant gratification. Now on the other hand, if you DO want opinions, advice, and input, then WB is going to school google every time.
The very first result on google is a website you can purchase this from. And apparently they also make custom lengths as well if you so desire.
shelterbuilder
10-03-2007, 19:10
only one bag is needed. any more is a sign of neurosis
No. THREE bags is the sign of an organized mind - especially when the bags are color-coded. Any less is a sign of neurotic UL behavior.:D
I was going to carry one bag, and just organize the food within that bag, but it did not fit in one large one, or one large and one medium, so I was forced to use both(as in 2) the medium ones I have and the one large one, I think I am going to buy another large one, or check to see if i can fit all my food in one or two large ones with less food.
Kirby
Appalachian Tater
10-03-2007, 20:52
Two bags does give you more flexibility than one. Food can be pretty heavy so it's nice to put it in the bottom of your pack but you still need snacks and lunch during the day so having that stuff in another bag is nice.
Also, if you eat a lot, and do a couple of seven-plus day sections, one bag won't hold it all. If you don't eat so much and resupply every four days and just eat a couple of candybars during the day, one bag is plenty.
I am thinking I will head the over whelming advice given in this thread and move away from a rat sack and move towards two large food sacks, with the potential for a third medium one if needed.
Kirby
Lone Wolf
10-03-2007, 20:55
you only need one. but wants and needs are different
Appalachian Tater
10-03-2007, 21:12
Well now the fun starts. Which ones?
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/home/style/home/storage/storage_stuffsacks/HLP
you only need one. but wants and needs are different
Can one fit 4-7 days worth of food in one large stuff sack, and what are your dimensions of a large stuff sack, want to make sure we are talking about the same size stuff sack.
Kirby
SGT Rock
10-04-2007, 02:57
7"x24" should do for that - it has for me in the past - 7 days with my cook set.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-04-2007, 08:42
Thank you very much, I have determined this will be worth the extra weight.
Kirby
Where's was that link to the website that sold cutting torches to rats?????
SGT Rock
10-04-2007, 08:55
I've seen metal screen that mice have chewed through. I think this would end up being something that could fail anyway. Especially since there is a cloth top and bottom - the mouse is usually smart enough to find the weak point in this sort of thing.
dessertrat
10-04-2007, 09:37
I find it amusing that everyone is so up in arms that a guy is going to carry a bag to keep rats out. Maybe not the best gear choice, but I don't think we'll find him dead by the side of the trial with "rat sack" listed as cause of death.
Myself, I use an old nylon gym bag to hang my food in.
SGT Rock
10-04-2007, 09:58
I find it amusing that everyone is so up in arms that a guy is going to carry a bag to keep rats out.
Up in Arms? LOL, no - just trying to give advice. That sounds dramatic though :rolleyes:
Myself, I use an old nylon gym bag to hang my food in.
See, even you are "up in arms" ;)
Lone Wolf
10-04-2007, 10:02
food bags go next to your head in tents not hung from trees. what a stupid concept
earthbound
10-04-2007, 12:30
mice are interesting creatures. I was on the top floor of a shelter in Georgia and the mice ate my entire pack towel, but a girl on the first floor of the shelter left out an entire bag of oatmeal that they didn't even touch. At least the mice did me a favor by eating something that I didn't need on the trail! :banana
Mother's Finest
10-04-2007, 13:19
it has not been said yet, so I will.
Minnesota Smith Jr. ??
peace
mf
The Weasel
10-04-2007, 13:31
mice are interesting creatures. I was on the top floor of a shelter in Georgia and the mice ate my entire pack towel, but a girl on the first floor of the shelter left out an entire bag of oatmeal that they didn't even touch. At least the mice did me a favor by eating something that I didn't need on the trail! :banana
Perhaps your pack towel tasted better than oatmeal by then. :-?
In actuality, if you used it to wipe your face, the mice probably went crazy for the salt left over from your sweat.
TW
from the DEC
6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."
so, if the aluminum insert is used, the ursack should work, and yes I know that the AT doesn't require a bear can of any sort, its just if you're gonna get an anti-critter bag, why not think ahead with it, carry it on the trail without the insert, if you ever decide to go out west, or to the adirondacks, just take the insert with you.
Not to beat a dead horse, but a Ursack is NOT constructed from a solid, non-pliable material regardless of optional metal insert. First, the outer layer is a soft, pliable material, second, the metal insert is still pliable (its only heavy guage sheet metal), and third, the top and bottom are not enclosed in metal or for that matter, any solid, non-pliable material.
I've inquired with the DEC's chief bear specialist, who told me that Ursacks are NOT a viable alternative to a rigid, non-pliable bear canister and that anyone found using a Ursack in the High Peaks region of the Adirondacks by a DEC ranger or ENCON officer is subject to an appearance ticket answerable in a local criminal court.
Besides, the weight savings of a Ursack with insert over a rigid canister of comparable size/volume is minimal.