View Full Version : fast fly,tarp, or tarptent
taildragger
10-03-2007, 09:26
Ok, so I have a bit of a dilemma here
In my quest to start cutting down on size and weight for my 3 season pack, while keeping a small budget.
Right now the only tent I own is a Mountain Hardwear hammerhead 2. I had originally planned to use this most of the year as the fast fly option, but I'm starting to have doubts about this as the footprint for this setup will be quite massive.
Now, my new thought is about tarping or tarptenting. How weather proof will I stay in a tarp? This is a setup that I plan to use for the PCT, and now that I have a down bag, I'm much more worried about rain than I previously was. Will a simple 10x10 tarp really be enough for a PCT thru (at least for a noob look myself). What about bugproofing? Would it be worth it to get something like a contrail, rainbow, or a lunar solo instead of just a tarp?
Money, dryness, and size are the issues here. I think I like the feeling of protection that the hammerhead will offer, but at the same time I dunno about finding a campsite big enough for it on 10 days that I'll need it.
As always, any and all advice is welcomed
bigcranky
10-03-2007, 09:37
A Tarptent, like the Contrail or the Rainbow, is a great choice for a lightweight shelter. It's fast and easy to set up, weatherproof (as long as you're not totally ignorant of site selection), and fairly light. You get a floor and bug netting, good views outside, and a cozy home on the trail.
A 10x10 tarp is plenty big enough to keep you warm and dry and snug. It's cheaper than a Tarptent, and possibly lighter. But, it takes more skill and thought and mucho time to set up, more care in selecting a site, and you still need to carry a floor and something for the bugs. By the time you get all that, you are close to the weight of a Tarptent, so there's no savings.
If you want to go ultralight and flexible, and have the $$$, you can get a very, very light tarp and bivy setup made from bleeding-edge materials, that will have all the advantages and drawbacks of a tarp, but weigh in the 12-14 ounce range, total. You can buy this sort of thing at backpackinglight.com, or make your own.
Reading PCT journals, I see a lot of hikers cowboy camp a lot of nights. I like my homemade bivy and tarp, and would probably bring that on such a hike. But I also love the ease of use of my Tarptent, so it would be a tough decision.
taildragger
10-03-2007, 09:56
what about a goretex bivy (or similiar material). I've thought about getting one of those since I will doubtfully get past California (time restrictions, but a 3 month hike ain't bad) so I wouldn't be expected the larger rains that I could see in Oregon and Washington.
If this would make an appropriate shelter, I might look into the bivy route with a tarp (campmore type probably) and then find me some good trekking twigs out in the woods to help make this work :-?
Oh, and the reason for the 10x10 tarp, I've got some people that want to hike with me in sections, so I was thinking that since I don't plan to complete the whole PCT I might just split the weight (all 10oz) and use that as a shelter, that and I'd heard that a square tarp was easier to learn with.
iliketacos
10-03-2007, 10:02
Tarptent is the way to go with the bathtub floor-BUT if it is cold out you will be cold.
bigcranky
10-03-2007, 10:09
Goretex bivys, in my experience, are too much for a tarp/bivy combo. They are too hot, too heavy, and allow huge amounts of condensation.
Breatheable bivys, with a silnylon floor, a breatheable DWR fabric top, and bug netting, are better. My wife made mine, but you can buy them from Mountain Laurel Designs, BPL, Oware, tec.
The 10x10 square is a good tarp to learn on, and will easily cover 2 people and gear.
I built a ray-way tarp and net tent. It has kept me dry so far. I think Ray Jardine came up with his design on the PCT.
http://www.ray-way.com/tarp-nettent/index.htm
(http://www.ray-way.com/)
taildragger
10-03-2007, 10:19
what about the go lite shelters (i.e. the hex), any good, anyone have personal experiences with them
Jim Adams
10-03-2007, 10:59
Taildragger,
I have used tarps extensively for the past 20 years while hiking and have never regretted it. I also just got back from 3 months on the PCT so maybe I can help or maybe not.
Using a square tarp (10x10, 12x12, etc) will greatly speed up the learning process and be much easier to deal with when starting.
Site selection with a tarp is critical but not much more so than with a tent or tarptent.
Once you learn the set-ups with knowledge of the why's and wheres, a tarp will not take any longer to set up than a tent or tarptent.
You will occassionally find instances that only a free standing tent will work in a certain location.
On the other hand, I have been in winds that would have destroyed most tents and tarptents and the tarp was fine as long as it was set up properly.
You will never have to worry about condensation with a tarp.
While on the AT for two thru hikes I carried deet for the bugs, I had to actually resort to using it only 2 or 3 times per thru.
Now with that said let me go to the PCT.
I carried a 10x10 tarp for some of my PCT hike, mostly the desert sections but for the first time ever, I carried a tent while backpacking. I took the tent for all of the horror stories that I had heard about the mosquitos in the Sierra's. I ended up considering my tent as one of the best backpacking purchases that I had ever made even though I really didn't need it. The Sierra's had recieved far less snow than normal over the winter and as a result the bugs simply weren't there. I never had a problem in the evening due to the coolness and only used deet once on the whole trip while walking. Most of the desert section I just spead out my tyvek and cowboy camped. I was in two rain storms and two snow storms and the tarp worked great as well as the tent during one other rain storm and one snow storm.
Both held up well to high winds and both were comfortable to live in.
My advice is to learn the tarp set-ups and give it a try...it is the lightest of all the alternatives and less weight to carry if you begin to cowboy camp.
Last but not least, I used a down bag and no bivy...the key to staying light isn't more equipment....just learn how to stay dry.
I hope this has helped. You can also PM me anytime for tarp questions.
geek
Jim Adams
10-03-2007, 11:01
what about the go lite shelters (i.e. the hex), any good, anyone have personal experiences with them
I have a Lair 2 and although it has alot of room, condensation is still a problem.:-?
geek
Toolshed
10-03-2007, 12:54
....hammock.....:cool:
taildragger
10-03-2007, 13:06
....hammock.....:cool:
Won't work on the PCT, those dern pesky trees just don't grow in certain elevations and climates :D. If they did, I would go back to my pre-bipedal origins and take to the trees (monkey + evolution) / :banana = hammock
Johnny Swank
10-03-2007, 13:25
I wouldn't mess with the fastpacking idea. Most of the weight and hassle (poles, etc) of the tent, with none of the benefits (bugs). You'd also have much less room than just using a tarp by itself.
We're playing with a PCT half-hike in a couple of years, and are leaning toward just using a tarp and breathable bivy. From what I understand, most folks rarely use whatever shelter they end up taking anyway.
Toolshed
10-04-2007, 14:20
Won't work on the PCT, those dern pesky trees just don't grow in certain elevations and climates :D. If they did, I would go back to my pre-bipedal origins and take to the trees (monkey + evolution) / :banana = hammock
PCT :sigh: minor details ........ :D
Won't work on the PCT, those dern pesky trees just don't grow in certain elevations and climates :D. If they did, I would go back to my pre-bipedal origins and take to the trees (monkey + evolution) / :banana = hammock
You can set a hammock up on the ground. I have used my hammock in the sierras and southern oregon. Obviously, no real point to a hammock most of the time in the desert.
If you want to go as as light as you can and minimize bulk, I would say a combo of a bivy and poncho tarp is the best bet.
ChinMusic
10-04-2007, 14:47
If you want a light tarptent, take a look at the Lunar Solo by Six Moon Designs. It is easy to set up, has a large vestibule, and room for your pack inside the tent. I would not rec this tent if you are taller than 6'2", as your head and feet will most likely be in contact with the tent walls too often.
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/Shopexd.asp?id=36
:claptake a look here !! http://www.seatosummit.com/products/cat/9
saimyoji
10-04-2007, 18:36
This may be just what you need.
http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442591926&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302875851&bmUID=1191537309777
taildragger
10-05-2007, 10:08
saim... That looks like an interesting setup, but at $300 I'm gonna let it slide.
I think that I'm just gonna go the tarp route, I'll wait for my brother to get a hammock and then I'll try and convince him that we should swap out for a trip, see whose setup is better.
I have use both a tarp and a hammock. I use to sleep with no sleeping pad, also had no bed for a year and slept on concrete, so I am not one to complain about comfort, that being said I prefer my hammock.
saimyoji
10-05-2007, 11:40
saim... That looks like an interesting setup, but at $300 I'm gonna let it slide.
Yeah, I wish I had that kinda money....Maybe buy me some Exxon stock...:-?
All components together weigh approximately 5 pounds 8 ounces.
For a single shelter!
ChinMusic
10-05-2007, 12:48
I read that too. That sucker is heavy any way you look at it. I would hope one would try to be under 2 pounds (closer to 1.5) for a tarptent.
small budget, comfy and light, 2lb, here : http://www.sunnysports.com/Prod/CategoryID_2145/Context_2144/Sort_Stock/DescSort_0/Filter_2%3d2151%3a3%3d2154%2c2153%3a1%3d2147%3a4%3 d2159/ERKTSF.html?Hit=1
small budget, comfy and light, 2lb.
2 lb 12 oz. For UL weenies like me, that difference is significant. In general, Eureka makes good tents; I can vouch from long personal experience.
2 lb 12 oz. For UL weenies like me, that difference is significant. In general, Eureka makes good tents; I can vouch from long personal experience. 12oz are the pegs that come whit it,don`t use those get titanium from Vargo! http://www.vargooutdoors.com/index_files/Page386.htm
12 oz for pegs? I don't think so. FWIW, I purchased (and quickly returned) the "UL" version of this tent, and it weighed in at about 2 lbs. 6 oz.
I'll grant you, 2 lb. 12 oz. is respectable for a solo double-walled tent; my old Eureka Gossamer is 3 lbs on the nose. And MSR's equivalent (MicroZoid) has much less useable room. Trust me -- I did a whole lot of research on solo backpacking tents over the last year, which included purchasing and returning a few.
I ended up with a Tarptent Rainbow, but if I had to do it over again I'd probably go with a Big Agnes SL1. The "Big Sky" tents look very nice on paper but I've heard too many horror stories about issues with delivery.
i got 10 full aluminum pegs whit that eureka S. LoL ,and it has 2 initial setup points... anyway poke around vargo`s and sunnysports site is full of good stuff