View Full Version : Finding water?
Wise Old Owl
10-07-2007, 23:26
As a point to point AT hiker I have had a few chances to meet some of you in person. But on most trips I usually take all my own water. One trip I actually ran out of water, only to discover after 6 more miles there was a “missing” 16 oz reserve in my pack that I had clearly forgot about. I was a bit mad at myself for getting so dehydrated in summer. When I got to the shelter the water was some 100 feet deep into the woods behind and off trail, if it wasn’t for some hikers I would not have had any water that night. I see from the maps there are numerous springs off trail to get water, So how did you find these sources or are some of you running around with dividing rods to save energy? Honest, I don’t get it, I can find a “watering hole serving Yuengling faster at the end of the trail than water. When you look at all the posts this is what is missing.
Appalachian Tater
10-07-2007, 23:34
As a point to point AT hiker I have had a few chances to meet some of you in person. But on most trips I usually take all my own water. One trip I actually ran out of water, only to discover after 6 more miles there was a “missing” 16 oz reserve in my pack that I had clearly forgot about. I was a bit mad at myself for getting so dehydrated in summer. When I got to the shelter the water was some 100 feet deep into the woods behind and off trail, if it wasn’t for some hikers I would not have had any water that night. I see from the maps there are numerous springs off trail to get water, So how did you find these sources or are some of you running around with dividing rods to save energy? Honest, I don’t get it, I can find a “watering hole serving Yuengling faster at the end of the trail than water. When you look at all the posts this is what is missing.
Sometimes the water is on the trail.
The guidebooks, databooks, and maps give information about some water sources. The databooks probably have the most sources included.
Sometimes there are signs pointing to water on the trail or in or near a shelter.
If there is a non-obvious water source near a shelter there is almost always a sign with a map or directions in the shelter or a comment in the front of the trail register.
When water is hard to come by, I always ask hikers who pass me in the opposite direction about upcoming water sources and try to note the time I pass a good source to give the information to others.
If water is at all scarce, I try to carry at least 8 oz of water not in my Platypus so that when I suck the last drop out of the tube, there is enough to keep my mouth wet until the next source.
Tennessee Viking
10-07-2007, 23:52
All or most shelters should have a spring within walking distance. I know there are some exceptions, like Vandaventer and Iron Mtn Shelters.
Not an expert, but just looking at terrian can tell you were water is at. Ravines, valleys, gaps, hollows, and inside corners of hillside. Lots of exposed rock is also a good indication.
All or most shelters should have a spring within walking distance.
Define "walking distance." ;) I've taken 45 minute round-trips for water at a few sheltes in PA.
I've read your post several times and from what I gather you do not appear to be carrying a complete Guide to the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania, only the maps. In addition to the maps, there's a book where you'll find the information you seek.
If you intend to spend any significant amount of time hiking Pennsylvania's A.T., you should consider buying a copy. It can be purchased from KTA, ATC or an outfitter. You might end up buying another set of maps to get it.
Alternatively, you could download the portion of ALDHA's Online Companion (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm) that covers Pennsylvania or buy an A.T. Data Book from ATC.
The water sources to which we refer you'll cross, see right next to the A.T. or are located on blue-blazed trails. Some may be dry in summer or fall. Distances to water sources not right on the A.T. will be indicated in the publications mentioned. In some cases, developed water sources (outdoor spigots) are made available by businesses or home owners to hikers.
I hope what I've posted helps. If there is anything more we can do to clarify things for you, post with more questions.
Tennessee Viking
10-08-2007, 00:33
I haven't been that far north yet. The shelters in the Cherokee/Pisgah Forest section need to have a spring source nearby. Though I find Iron Mtn and Vandaventer a bit out of the way.
shelterbuilder
10-08-2007, 07:00
I tend to rely on my maps more than I do on the guidebooks, but water sources are listed in both. That's just personal preference.:D (Maps are also very useful for finding alternate routes back to civilization in an emergency.)
From the standpoint of building a new shelter, standard practice is to locate the site "near" some type of water source. Depending on land ownership, terrain, or other issues, "near" may mean "at", or it may mean several hundred yards away (often downhill). In Pa., since much of the trail is on ridgetops, any spring that is at a higher elevation will tend to go dry in summer and fall. (Three sites that come to mind are the Bake Oven Knob, Allentown, and Eagle's Nest shelters.)
For the trail in general, most of the water sources were located when the footpath was originally marked, so they've been known "forever".
Whether you use maps, guidebooks, or both, study them before you go out so that you understand them enough for them to be helpful.
saimyoji
10-08-2007, 07:53
When I got to the shelter the water was some 100 feet deep into the woods behind and off trail.
100 ft?? C'mon, you can't be THAT lazy. :eek:
Define "walking distance." ;) I've taken 45 minute round-trips for water at a few sheltes in PA.
Damn straight.
Appalachian Tater
10-08-2007, 12:32
100 ft?? C'mon, you can't be THAT lazy. :eek:
That was my interpretation when I read it the first time. The second time, I realized he probably meant they told him how to get to the water and if they hadn't been there, he wouldn't have known it was there.
saimyoji
10-08-2007, 12:34
That was my interpretation when I read it the first time. The second time, I realized he probably meant they told him how to get to the water and if they hadn't been there, he wouldn't have known it was there.
Yeah, maybe. I retract my lazy implication. :)
Dowsing rods work great. ;)
middle to middle
10-08-2007, 13:46
Looking down into a valley; thick clumps of rotodendrin grow in wet spots. May have to dig a sump hole but in a pinch water is usually there.
dessertrat
10-08-2007, 14:08
Water is sometimes a problem, especially late in the season, when seasonal sources might have run dry. Sometimes springs or small streams near shelters dry up. I once got to a lean-to to discover that the spring was dry, and indeed took an hour long round trip back to the last stream I had passed to fill up my containers. I had been an idiot, frankly, to pass by the stream in the hopes that the spring at the lean to would be reliable, that late in the year. It was wishful thinking-- I didn't want to carry water up a steep hill to the lean-to from the stream, only to find water at the lean to. I ended up making an extra trip and having to carry the water anyway. (The other option was to camp overnight with almost no water, which I am almost never willing to do if I don't have to. That seems like masochism to me. At least when I am on a water run, I can "slack pack" instead of carrying the pack).
rotodendrin
I'll try to remember your alternate spelling of rhododendron. I have no idea how or when I might use it, but it may come in handy one day.
Appalachian Tater
10-08-2007, 14:58
Pretty much every time I skipped a water source expecting a better one shortly I regretted my decision. In dry seasons, take water when and where you can get it unless you have absolute certain information about the alternatives.
warraghiyagey
10-08-2007, 15:00
I'll try to remember your alternate spelling of rhododendron. I have no idea how or when I might use it, but it may come in handy one day.
If we took time to correct anyone's butchering of a word spelling or bad grammar we wouldn't have time to talk about hiking. But thanks for the correction. You must be reelee smart.
Appalachian Tater
10-08-2007, 15:03
"Rotodendrin" is the new OTC pain med from Abbot Labs. It's for those drilling migraines.
I tend to rely on my maps more than I do on the guidebooks, but water sources are listed in both. That's just personal preference.:D
I'll take your post as a good indication you survived this weekend.:) I haven't seen many maps that indicate reliability of water sources or some of the other finer points about them, but they do give an indication how far you can expect to walk.;)
There's all kinds of information between the covers of Guide to the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania, but, until you mentioned it, I never realized there was anything inside the maps.:o Next time I have map-in-hand, I'll put on my glasses and have a look.:D
If we took time to correct anyone's butchering of a word spelling or bad grammar we wouldn't have time to talk about hiking. But thanks for the correction. You must be reelee smart.
You ought to go for a hike, a long one. I ought to see if I can get something else done today.
I studied botany and I thought those who actually don't know how to spell the word might benefit from seeing it spelled correctly. Happy to help out.
If it's late in the day and if there's any doubt about water at the shelter (or tenting, away from a shelter) I almost always fill up my platypus to max capacity, when the opportunity arises. I don't enjoy carrying all that weight, but having a full supply water gives me peace of mind and keeps my options open.
shelterbuilder
10-08-2007, 16:12
I'll take your post as a good indication you survived this weekend.:) I haven't seen many maps that indicate reliability of water sources or some of the other finer points about them, but they do give an indication how far you can expect to walk.;)
Yes, thank you. Only had one helper on Saturday and one on Sunday, but we got a lot of work done - including taking down a dead tree that was threatening the cabin. And we didn't need maps or a guidebook to find water - I brought plenty!!!:D
We didn't need maps or a guidebook to find water - I brought plenty!!!:D
You had extra?
Only had one helper on Saturday and one on Sunday, but we got a lot of work done - including taking down a dead tree that was threatening the cabin.
Somehow, what you posted didn't register on the 1st read!:eek: Do I understand you correctly that there was a dead tree threatening the cabin and you took it down yourself? Wouldn't the proper procedure have been to step back, put a live tree between yourself and the offending tree, whip out your cell phone and call 911?:-?
shelterbuilder
10-09-2007, 06:17
You had extra?
Yes, but the dogs spilled most of it!:D I brought enough so that I could do a pancake and sausage breakfast for those who stayed over, but nobody stayed over.
shelterbuilder
10-09-2007, 06:22
Somehow, what you posted didn't register on the 1st read!:eek: Do I understand you correctly that there was a dead tree threatening the cabin and you took it down yourself? Wouldn't the proper procedure have been to step back, put a live tree between yourself and the offending tree, whip out your cell phone and call 911?:-?
My phone presence isn't what it once was!:eek: So I climbed about 30 feet up the tree, tied on a rope, had my assistant put the rope under tension with a come-along, and THEN I cut the tree down. (This tree was leaning toward the cabin on the downhill side.)
But, then, you have personal knowledge of my love affair with climbing trees!:D
Yes, but the dogs spilled most of it!:D I brought enough so that I could do a pancake and sausage breakfast for those who stayed over, but nobody stayed over.
The more the merrier. Maybe they were content to just stay?
Had you considered your guests were afraid of the dogs spilling their water too? You know water's become precious in these parts.
My phone presence isn't what it once was!:eek: So I climbed about 30 feet up the tree, tied on a rope, had my assistant put the rope under tension with a come-along, and THEN I cut the tree down. (This tree was leaning toward the cabin on the downhill side.)
You mean you cut its roots right out from under it? You must be one of those sawyers I've heard about!:cool:
But, then, you have personal knowledge of my love affair with climbing trees!:D
I always thought it a bit squirrelly to climb a tree and cut it down, but then you're certified and I'm not.:D
You mean you cut its roots right out from under it? You must be one of those sawyers I've heard about!:cool:
I always thought it a bit squirrelly to climb a tree and cut it down, but then you're certified and I'm not.:D
In order to be certified, logically one must first be certifiable. ;)
shelterbuilder
10-09-2007, 16:27
The more the merrier. Maybe they were content to just stay?
Had you considered your guests were afraid of the dogs spilling their water too? You know water's become precious in these parts.
Oh, they weren't wasting it - they were laying down in it to cool off!(I don't have dumb dogs, you know.:D ) And as for my guests - they knew that this was a work trip - with a breakfast bribe - but work is a four-letter word around these parts!:eek:
shelterbuilder
10-09-2007, 16:31
You mean you cut its roots right out from under it? You must be one of those sawyers I've heard about!:cool:
I always thought it a bit squirrelly to climb a tree and cut it down, but then you're certified and I'm not.:D
Actually, I could have used Paul Bunyan's expertise, but he was unavailable. So I just had to "make do" - but I'm an expert at flying by the seat of my pants!:eek:
shelterbuilder
10-09-2007, 16:32
In order to be certified, logically one must first be certifiable. ;)
I see that my reputation preceeds me!:eek: :eek: :eek:
Honest, I don’t get it, I can find a “watering hole" serving Yuengling faster at the end of the trail than water. When you look at all the posts this is what is missing.
Maybe Mark would be better served by looking for Yuengling (http://www.yuengling.com/tour_pottsville.htm) rather than water after all.
shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 06:32
Maybe Mark would be better served by looking for Yuengling (http://www.yuengling.com/tour_pottsville.htm) rather than water after all.
Now you sound like a good ol' Schuylkill County boy!:D Just remember, bottles make a nicer sound when you smash them on the rocks at the overlooks.:eek:
Now you sound like a good ol' Schuylkill County boy!:D Just remember, bottles make a nicer sound when you smash them on the rocks at the overlooks.:eek:
Berks County born and raised, sb. I figured you knew that. With talk like yours, you'll soon be getting hate mail.
It just occurred to me what Mark pointed out makes sense for him and likely other summer or fall day-hikers. Why go on a quest for mud puddles when you can bring tap water from home known to be safe. I hasten to point out the reliable water sources you and I have mentioned are not mud puddles.
I expect Mark doesn't need the map I linked to find Yuengling. He seems to be able to find Yuengling as easily as you and I find water on Blue Mountain. I linked the map instead for section-hikers and others who may want to tour the brewery. It is America's oldest.
Hikers who thirst for a Yuengling need only patronize Port Clinton Hotel. They needn't travel to Pottsville.
Staying home in the summer and drinking a Yuengling or even 2 makes sense to me. I prefer bottles to cans, but the few I empty all go into my recyclables container to be made into new glass containers. Waste not, want not, right?
I don't expect others to pick up after me nor do I drink adult beverages on the A.T. I sometimes have an adult beverage with a meal, at the holidays in the privacy of my own home or when offered one by someone else at his or her home.
I don't frequent tap rooms or any other places where people smoke if I can avoid them. Since I don't drive under the influence, it's unlikely I'll ever be prosecuted for DUI. I wouldn't want to give up my driving privileges or be responsible for a collision.
The narrow mountain roads here and speed at which locals are apt to drive on them leave little margin for error. I don't like driving them under any conditions.
shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 17:52
Berks County born and raised, sb. I figured you knew that. With talk like yours, you'll soon be getting hate mail.
It just occurred to me what Mark pointed out makes sense for him and likely other summer or fall day-hikers. Why go on a quest for mud puddles when you can bring tap water from home known to be safe. I hasten to point out the reliable water sources you and I have mentioned are not mud puddles...
I linked the map instead for section-hikers and others who may want to tour the brewery. It is America's oldest.Anyone who thirsts for a Yuengling need only patronize Port Clinton Hotel. They needn't travel to Pottsville....
I don't expect others to pick up after me nor do I drink adult beverages on the A.T. ....
Yes, I knew that...I also seem to recall a worktrip of yours some years ago when you spent MUCH time picking up tiny glass shards from the base of Kimmel Lookout - loving placed there by some of my co-workers' friends from Schuylkill County. Hate Mail??? Let it come! I only get bills these days - it'll be a welcome change!:D
By the way, after the hy-jinks this summer in Port Clinton, are drinking hikers still welcome there???:eek:
Surely you ask a rhetorical question.
I recommend Microtel as a place to stay. It's easy to find down by Cabela's opposite the state police.;)
shelterbuilder
10-10-2007, 18:44
Surely you ask a rhetorical question.
I recommend Microtel. It's easy to find down by Cabela's opposite the state police.;)
:eek: !!!THE STATE POLICE!!!:eek: No hy-jinks there, eh?