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pixel
10-11-2007, 10:47
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel? My passion/hobby/love is music - writing, singing, playing, and listening to other people do the same. I think of opening a hostel along the AT one day with instruments everywhere....a haven for people who love to play, sing or just listen. I think for myself (after food of course!) something I'll really crave on the AT is an outlet for creating music. The first time I ever saw a backpacker's guitar I thought that was great! :) Only thing is I play piano....haven't seen a practical backpacker's piano yet!

(Work is slow today...and I'm daydreamin'!)

Smile
10-11-2007, 10:51
I've been lookin for land or a location for several years now to do so. Let me know if you have any leads! Not far from trail though, a no-hitch-needed locale.

MOWGLI
10-11-2007, 10:52
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel? My passion/hobby/love is music - writing, singing, playing, and listening to other people do the same. I think of opening a hostel along the AT one day with instruments everywhere....a haven for people who love to play, sing or just listen. I think for myself (after food of course!) something I'll really crave on the AT is an outlet for creating music. The first time I ever saw a backpacker's guitar I thought that was great! :) Only thing is I play piano....haven't seen a practical backpacker's piano yet!

(Work is slow today...and I'm daydreamin'!)

You need a good business plan if you expect to make any money. You also need a high tolerance for BS if you're going to put up with anyone who wants to walk in the door. It's fun to dream though. I do it a lot. :sun

Good luck!

Just a Hiker
10-11-2007, 10:52
I think about it every time I stay at the old gondola hut on top of Sugarloaf! I spend the whole evening thinking about turning that place into a cool hostel. Now if I could just get American Ski Co. to give it to me!!

Just Jim

Sly
10-11-2007, 10:54
I'd rather hike than cater to hikers.

chiefdaddy
10-11-2007, 11:07
It's a great idea and no one would be mad if you hiked also, just need a business plan as said before and you never know what can happen.

Frosty
10-11-2007, 11:22
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel?Check out hikerhostel.com

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 11:23
you can never have enough hostels and shelters on the AT. build more

Gray Blazer
10-11-2007, 11:25
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel? My passion/hobby/love is music - writing, singing, playing, and listening to other people do the same. I think of opening a hostel along the AT one day with instruments everywhere....a haven for people who love to play, sing or just listen. I think for myself (after food of course!) something I'll really crave on the AT is an outlet for creating music. The first time I ever saw a backpacker's guitar I thought that was great! :) Only thing is I play piano....haven't seen a practical backpacker's piano yet!

(Work is slow today...and I'm daydreamin'!)

African kalimba (thumb piano) or a melodica.

Uncle Silly
10-11-2007, 12:18
African kalimba (thumb piano) or a melodica.

Or an accordion (or concertina or any of those squeezebox-type instruments). "Mama's got a squeezebox; Daddy never sleeps at night!"

ki0eh
10-11-2007, 12:31
Here's a place just off the Great Eastern Trail:
http://homes.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=16938&typ=7&sid=42374075159545b2a722be96336b7fbe&lid=1081310803&lsn=1&srcnt=13

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 12:34
I've entertained the thought of building and running a hostel here in Hanover many times, how much fun it'd be, and how wonderful it'd be to have fifteen hiker guests each and every day for eight weeks in the summertime.

Then, happily, the thought soon passes, and sanity returns. :D

woodsy
10-11-2007, 12:41
I've entertained the thought of building and running a hostel here in Hanover many times, how much fun it'd be, and how wonderful it'd be to have fifteen hiker guests each and every day for eight weeks in the summertime.

Then, happily, the thought soon passes, and sanity returns. :D

Now that brought up a spontaneous chuckle:)

Kirby
10-11-2007, 14:48
Bethel/Newry Maine needs a hostel, it is not that far from the AT by route 26, and it is a nice town that is in need of a stronger economy during the non-ski season.

Kirby

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 14:50
Bethel/Newry Maine needs a hostel, it is not that far from the AT by route 26, and it is a nice town that is in need of a stronger economy during the non-ski season.

Kirby

thru-hikers add very little to local economies. there's already places to stay in Andover and Gorham.

Desert Lobster
10-11-2007, 14:56
If you start a hostel, make the hikers pay when they come through your door! Don't expect it later or they might just skip out on ya. Cheap sons a .....

Desert Lobster
10-11-2007, 14:57
By the way, Jack, when do you plan on sending in your donation?

rafe
10-11-2007, 15:07
Bethel/Newry Maine needs a hostel, it is not that far from the AT by route 26, and it is a nice town that is in need of a stronger economy during the non-ski season.

Bethel's a nice little town with a decent supermarket and a great pub, but it's a loong way off the trail. It's bracketed by Gorham and Andover, so there's really not much need.

As for starting your own hostel, here's (http://www.freestatehiker.com/) a link to BonePac's place in Maryland, which opened this year. It's beautiful. I highly recommend it. BonePac thru-hiked in '06, in fact he was the first NOBO finisher that year.

Jeff
10-11-2007, 15:23
Hikers don't like lots of rules. But, the successful hostels I have visited had a NO ALCOHOL & NO DRUGS requirement.

The Solemates
10-11-2007, 15:45
you can never have enough hostels and shelters on the AT. build more

you had me rollin on the floor with that one

Lion King
10-11-2007, 16:02
Best Place for the Hostel, in terms of Business:

Just South of Neels Gap, deep in the woods.

Amenities include:

As you enter, a shower and pack cleaning station, when you exit the shower you are handed a fluffy robe with a big AT emblem on it.

As you move forward into the grand foyer, a brothel--for both sexes, so knock yourself out.

In the back, a All you can eat Pizza-Chinese-Homestyle Buffet with a full gratias bar, including some of the Areas best home made wine and deserts.

In the basement, an Irish pub with band, pool tables, dart boards and all beers from states within the AT boundary

In the side of the hosue a full size Movie theater with all current releases and popcorn.


nightly stay for the whole package=== $100.

Come on by the Lions Den.:D

Marta
10-11-2007, 16:04
I'd rather hike than cater to hikers.

Ditto. One of the best things about hiking is the lack of housework.

pixel
10-11-2007, 16:24
Bethel/Newry Maine


Might have to look into that. I visited Maine breifly in 1981 and thought it was beautiful. I stayed with a family who lived back in the woods near a small town. (Wish I could remember the name of the town...too long ago.) But their life-style was really simple and you could tell it made them a close-knit family. Thought that was cool too. What are the seasons like up there? How long are the temps in the 60's-70's? How long is winter and are they harsh?

Kirby
10-11-2007, 16:28
Hikers don't like lots of rules. But, the successful hostels I have visited had a NO ALCOHOL & NO DRUGS requirement.

Which is a good policy to have, especially since it has the potential to be used around those of us who are underage or who do not support illgal acts. I could deal with drinking, but drug use is something that should be not allowed in hostels, in my humble opinion. I have heard that hostel that have sugguested donation fees have a hard time staying afloat because so few hikers pay the sugguested donation.

Kirby

Kirby
10-11-2007, 16:33
Might have to look into that. I visited Maine breifly in 1981 and thought it was beautiful. I stayed with a family who lived back in the woods near a small town. (Wish I could remember the name of the town...too long ago.) But their life-style was really simple and you could tell it made them a close-knit family. Thought that was cool too. What are the seasons like up there? How long are the temps in the 60's-70's? How long is winter and are they harsh?

As far as Bethel goes, it is in the 60's and 70's for most of the mid spring and summer, and sometimes in the fall. Winters can be harsh, depends on the year, although the pattern is shifting towards lesh harsh winter because we are having warmer weather in winter than we have in years past. Although as mentioned before, Bethel is buffered by hostels in Gorham and Andover, so you might find that hikers go to those two towns. You might look into those towns, see what is already there, and what is needed, my dad lost my thru hikers handbook so I can not say right off the top of my head, but someone else who reads this could.

Although I imagine the market down south would be better because there are more hikers there than there are here. Hanover, NH apparently does not have a hostel, that would be a potentially good spot for one, from what I understand, a lot of hikers stop there for resupply and the typical hiker things.

Kirby

pixel
10-11-2007, 16:36
Amenities include:

As you enter, a shower and pack cleaning station, when you exit the shower you are handed a fluffy robe with a big AT emblem on it.

As you move forward into the grand foyer, a brothel--for both sexes, so knock yourself out.

In the back, a All you can eat Pizza-Chinese-Homestyle Buffet with a full gratias bar, including some of the Areas best home made wine and deserts.

In the basement, an Irish pub with band, pool tables, dart boards and all beers from states within the AT boundary

In the side of the hosue a full size Movie theater with all current releases and popcorn.


nightly stay for the whole package=== $100.

Come on by the Lions Den.:D

:) Well, I'll keep those suggestions in mind. Here's another question to throw in the pot for everyone....what was your favorite hostel and why?

warraghiyagey
10-11-2007, 16:38
:) Well, I'll keep those suggestions in mind. Here's another question to throw in the pot for everyone....what was your favorite hostel and why?

Shaws, Monson. Because it feels like the home you wish was your home.

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 16:41
:) Well, I'll keep those suggestions in mind. Here's another question to throw in the pot for everyone....what was your favorite hostel and why?

Shaw's of course because i could tent and the AYCE meals they served. Plus Keith kept the riff raff out. No freakin work for stay.

warraghiyagey
10-11-2007, 16:42
Shaw's of course because i could tent and the AYCE meals they served. Plus Keith kept the riff raff out. No freakin work for stay.

:) :) :) :) . . . .

Just a Hiker
10-11-2007, 16:46
:) Well, I'll keep those suggestions in mind. Here's another question to throw in the pot for everyone....what was your favorite hostel and why?

Shaw's, Kincora, and the fairly new one in Dahlonega, Ga. Josh and his wife are really sharp people.

dessertrat
10-11-2007, 16:53
There is actually a new hostel, apparently, just a little ways into the Hundred Mile Wilderness. I saw the sign by accident, when I turned around and looked back down the trail-- most people going NOBO probably wouldn't see it, but if I recall correctly, it's about 10 miles in from Monson, down a side trail a little ways. I didn't visit it, just saw the signs.

Peaks
10-11-2007, 16:53
Josh and Leigh did their homework before opening their hostel. If you are serious, why not talk with them. Hopefully they will give you a good dose of reality.

Kirby
10-11-2007, 17:11
There is actually a new hostel, apparently, just a little ways into the Hundred Mile Wilderness. I saw the sign by accident, when I turned around and looked back down the trail-- most people going NOBO probably wouldn't see it, but if I recall correctly, it's about 10 miles in from Monson, down a side trail a little ways. I didn't visit it, just saw the signs.

Indeed there is, it is a series or cabins the owners opened up to hikers. I did not go there, but I saw the sign.

The only hostel I have stayed at is Shaw's, the new owners have kept everything the same, plus they have added a washer and dryer for the hikers. Very well run and maintained, well worth the 25 dollars for the amazing bunkroom and 5-6 dollars for the AYCE.

Kirby

Freeleo
10-11-2007, 17:17
Which is a good policy to have, especially since it has the potential to be used around those of us who are underage or who do not support illgal acts. I could deal with drinking, but drug use is something that should be not allowed in hostels, in my humble opinion.

Kirby

does that include cigarettes and religion...you can call anything a drug if it makes you feel better...take it easy all, im just playing on words

The Weasel
10-11-2007, 17:30
From the hiker hostels I've seen on the AT, as well as in other places, there seem to be three categories: Those that are set up by someone who says, "I love hiking, and this would be a wonderful, fun thing to do for fellow hikers." This kind fails: It doesn't recognize that many hikers have very small budgets for 'zero days', and are clustered in a very limited period of time, so that the ability to make enough money to justify any of the expense is very, very small. The hostel ends up closing, with many people very sad, because the owner/operator was a great person who helped a lot of people. I don't think these are well thought out, usually.

The second category is what I call the 'subsidized hostel', which is there because the owner has another agenda: Perhaps they see some tax benefits, perhaps they are doing gentle evangelism, perhaps they are simply trying to help others, or perhaps something else, but they know that they are subsidizing the cost of the hostel out of their 'day job'. These tend to last, but only as long as the ability or willingness to subsidize them does, and when hikers abuse the hospitality, the hostel can quickly close.

The last category is the one that says, "I like the hiking and outdoors world, but I know I have to be hard nosed about it, and the hostel isn't going to support itself, so there have to be other things that pay the mortgage throughout the year. I thnk of Laurel Creek as an example of this, with a bunkhouse, small cabins, and higher priced facilities that can make money year round. Kincora will always be more fondly thought of, but Laurel Creek realizes that the expenses have to be paid for by income. Places like that have strong business plans, and even then are very risky.

I don't think there are more than a few trail towns along the entire AT, and perhaps even a smaller handful along the PCT, that can support a hostel, even one with additional facilities, as a profit making (i.e. pay the bills from income) operation. I'd really discourage anyone from putting money into such a thing unless they could afford to lose it all.

Sorry to be negative, but I think I'm accurate, too.

TW

Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 17:40
From the hiker hostels I've seen on the AT, as well as in other places, there seem to be three categories: Those that are set up by someone who says, "I love hiking, and this would be a wonderful, fun thing to do for fellow hikers." This kind fails: It doesn't recognize that many hikers have very small budgets for 'zero days', and are clustered in a very limited period of time, so that the ability to make enough money to justify any of the expense is very, very small. The hostel ends up closing, with many people very sad, because the owner/operator was a great person who helped a lot of people. I don't think these are well thought out, usually.


Hate to disagree, but I think Kincora falls in this category. The hostel in Pearisburg does too, except I don't know if Bill and that little dog actually hike. Those are two really good hostels, run not for love of or need for money, yet they are hardly failures.

Probably a majority of thru-hikers have at least given opening a hostel some thought.

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 17:41
Um, you're not entirely accurate, Weasel.

Re. Kincora, for example, where a lot of the expenses there are indeed "paid for by income."

They're paid for by the income Bob and Pat earned before retirement, and much of that income has been given to the hostel.

And incidentally, speaking of Kincora, where does it fit into your three categories? I mean, it hasn't failed or closed beacuse it wasn't "thought out"; the owners absolutely don't have an "agenda'; and they're not exactly hardnosed businesspeople, either.

I think your "three category" theory about hostels needs work.

leeki pole
10-11-2007, 17:41
From the hiker hostels I've seen on the AT, as well as in other places, there seem to be three categories: Those that are set up by someone who says, "I love hiking, and this would be a wonderful, fun thing to do for fellow hikers." This kind fails: It doesn't recognize that many hikers have very small budgets for 'zero days', and are clustered in a very limited period of time, so that the ability to make enough money to justify any of the expense is very, very small. The hostel ends up closing, with many people very sad, because the owner/operator was a great person who helped a lot of people. I don't think these are well thought out, usually.

The second category is what I call the 'subsidized hostel', which is there because the owner has another agenda: Perhaps they see some tax benefits, perhaps they are doing gentle evangelism, perhaps they are simply trying to help others, or perhaps something else, but they know that they are subsidizing the cost of the hostel out of their 'day job'. These tend to last, but only as long as the ability or willingness to subsidize them does, and when hikers abuse the hospitality, the hostel can quickly close.

The last category is the one that says, "I like the hiking and outdoors world, but I know I have to be hard nosed about it, and the hostel isn't going to support itself, so there have to be other things that pay the mortgage throughout the year. I thnk of Laurel Creek as an example of this, with a bunkhouse, small cabins, and higher priced facilities that can make money year round. Kincora will always be more fondly thought of, but Laurel Creek realizes that the expenses have to be paid for by income. Places like that have strong business plans, and even then are very risky.

I don't think there are more than a few trail towns along the entire AT, and perhaps even a smaller handful along the PCT, that can support a hostel, even one with additional facilities, as a profit making (i.e. pay the bills from income) operation. I'd really discourage anyone from putting money into such a thing unless they could afford to lose it all.

Sorry to be negative, but I think I'm accurate, too.

TW
Sadly, very true. We'd all love to have a place for hikers, but financially, it just won't work.

Nean
10-11-2007, 18:02
Having a hostel can be a lot of fun and a big pain. :eek: We had one in N.C. and now here. We have never done it for the money...... cause there isn't any, but we meet a bunch of cool people and only the occassional ass.:cool: It's a neat way for a has been to stay in touch with, and be a small part of, the trail community. :o

As for Bethel/Newry we lived on 26, 5m down from Grafton Notch a few winters ago with my friend Gravity Flow who is still in the prosess of building his place. He should be done in the next year or so and is considering a hostel there.;)

Roland
10-11-2007, 18:05
Bethel Outdoor Adventure ran a hostel in Bethel. It died. When I drove by last weekend, the building was for sale.

Bethel is too far removed from the AT to attract much thru-hiker traffic.

Nean
10-11-2007, 18:08
Bethel Outdoor Adventure ran a hostel in Bethel. It died. When I drove by last weekend, the building was for sale.

Bethel is too far removed from the AT to attract much thru-hiker traffic.

Is 5m too far?

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:11
Actually, were the Cabin in East Andover to close, as well as the Pine Ellis B&B, the right hostel could do OK in Bethel, assuming they were willing to drive peole back to the Trailhead.

rafe
10-11-2007, 18:18
Actually, were the Cabin in East Andover to close, as well as the Pine Ellis B&B, the right hostel could do OK in Bethel, assuming they were willing to drive peole back to the Trailhead.

Are those the only options for Andover? What about Pegleg's place?

The other thing about Andover is that it's perfect for a 3-day slackpack. In fact, it's the only place I ever slacked. You can hike from Grafton Notch to ME Rte. 17 easily and in comfort without a pack, staying in Andover two consecutive nights.

Grafton Notch to the town of Bethel is at least 15 miles, IIRC.

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:24
Pegleg's been dead for awhile.

His former place, the Andover Guest House, is fine, and is usually well spoken of by hikers, tho it can get a bit loud there.

But there's room in the area for more than one establishment.

A place in Bethel would work if the proprietors were willing to do some driving.

Footslogger
10-11-2007, 18:24
[quote=_terrapin_;423921]Are those the only options for Andover? What about Pegleg's place?

============================

Andover Road House right across from the market closed ???

'Slogger

Roland
10-11-2007, 18:40
Is 5m too far?

Five miles on Rt 26 could be a lonely hitch.

Grafton Notch to Bethel is 20 miles.
Gorham to Bethel is 20 miles.

rickb
10-11-2007, 18:43
TW's post got me to thinking what hostels have been open the longest.

The Place?

Perisburg Church?

Shaws?

I probalby missed something obvious, right?

Roland
10-11-2007, 18:43
Actually, were the Cabin in East Andover to close, as well as the Pine Ellis B&B, the right hostel could do OK in Bethel, assuming they were willing to drive peole back to the Trailhead.

What you're saying is if all the competition were to go out of business, and if a hostel in Bethel was willing to provide transportation, that hikers would be willing to make the 40 mile round-trip from Grafton Notch to Bethel.

Andover to Bethel is a 60 mile round-trip.

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:51
Correct. And it may well happen. I was under the impression that Pine Ellis was up for sale and that the Cabin may be considering closing, tho I certainly hope this is not the case. But if these things happen, Bethel will start to draw hikers.

Roland
10-11-2007, 18:54
Correct. And it may well happen. I was under the impression that Pine Ellis was up for sale and that the Cabin may be considering closing, tho I certainly hope this is not the case. But if these things happen, Bethel will start to draw hikers.

I'm curious, Jack, does your interest in Bethel have anything to do with the Sunday River Brewery? :D

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:56
I'm actually not a big beer drinker, Roland, so the answer is no.

Rick, the present answer to your question is probably Elmer's in Hot Springs, tho Shaw's is right up there.

Blissful
10-11-2007, 19:04
Correct. And it may well happen. I was under the impression that Pine Ellis was up for sale and that the Cabin may be considering closing, tho I certainly hope this is not the case. But if these things happen, Bethel will start to draw hikers.

Honey and Bear of The Cabin said they are in their 70's and were not certain how much longer they will keep running. (they have a great place, BTW, and the food is out of this world) Seem like several biggies are closed after this year though. Miss Janet's of course, Kincora.

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 19:11
Where on earth did you hear that Kincora is closing?

Let's quash that right now.

According to Bob Peoples, they're looking forward very much to Southbounder season, and next year's operations will depend greatly on Pat's health, which, thank God, is improving.

But the rumors of Kincora's closing are premature, to say the least.

Kirby
10-11-2007, 19:27
Ms. Jannet's is closing???? No! I was looking forward to going there, I have heard nothing but good things. is anyone sweeping in to save the day down there?

Kirby

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 19:29
Ms. Jannet's is closing???? No! I was looking forward to going there, I have heard nothing but good things. is anyone sweeping in to save the day down there?

Kirby

save the day?

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 19:33
Kirby:

She's looking for another location in or near Erwin and may well be open by the time you get there next year. She's a member and frequent poster here, so when there's any news about what's going on, I'm sure you'll see it here.

Kirby
10-11-2007, 19:33
Well, if she closes, is there anyone else left there for the hikers?

Kirby

Kirby
10-11-2007, 19:33
Kirby:

She's looking for another location in or near Erwin and may well be open by the time you get there next year. She's a member and frequent poster here, so when there's any news about what's going on, I'm sure you'll see it here.

fantastic.

Kirby

Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 19:34
If she's not open, it is the considerd opinion of thousands of experienced folks that your best alternative lodging option in Erwin is to share a motel room with several friends.

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 19:35
Well, if she closes, is there anyone else left there for the hikers?

Kirby

some motels and uncle johnny's and the best place which is down on the river by the rafting center

Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 20:10
If Miss Janet is full, there's always the Holiday Inn with the big Jacuzzi and swimming pool. A hot Jacuzzi feels good by the time you get to Erwin. If you are a member of their affinity club you get a free upgrade to a deluxe room if it's available.

Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 20:11
If Miss Janet is full,

miss janet is CLOSED

Marta
10-11-2007, 20:15
Y'all better get the 2008 Companion. Hopefully Miss Janet will have found a new place for next year, but if not, the Companion provides information on the 2008 rates for other options in Erwin. I should know--I traipsed around town collecting the information myself. Miss Janet's phone number is also listed, so you can call her for the current information when and if you are passing through town.

BTW, for those with dogs...the motels in Erwin that used to accept pets will no longer be doing so next year.

Marta
10-11-2007, 20:19
miss janet is CLOSED

And, yeah, what he said. Her hostel is closed now, and has been closed for several months. Really, really closed. Not Wingfoot closed, but really closed. Not on-vacation closed, but really closed. The Elm Street house is no longer a hostel.

Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 20:19
miss janet is CLOSED

Gee, I know. And it's a real shame. I made a special point of meeting her. Hopefully she will at some point reopen, and no doubt she will be the first choice on most hikers' list of places to stay even if only because of her pleasant personality. If her place is full, the Holiday Inn is a pretty good second choice!

EWS
10-12-2007, 07:20
From the hiker hostels I've seen on the AT, as well as in other places, there seem to be three categories: Those that are set up by someone who says, "I love hiking, and this would be a wonderful, fun thing to do for fellow hikers." This kind fails: It doesn't recognize that many hikers have very small budgets for 'zero days', and are clustered in a very limited period of time, so that the ability to make enough money to justify any of the expense is very, very small. The hostel ends up closing, with many people very sad, because the owner/operator was a great person who helped a lot of people. I don't think these are well thought out, usually.

The second category is what I call the 'subsidized hostel', which is there because the owner has another agenda: Perhaps they see some tax benefits, perhaps they are doing gentle evangelism, perhaps they are simply trying to help others, or perhaps something else, but they know that they are subsidizing the cost of the hostel out of their 'day job'. These tend to last, but only as long as the ability or willingness to subsidize them does, and when hikers abuse the hospitality, the hostel can quickly close.

The last category is the one that says, "I like the hiking and outdoors world, but I know I have to be hard nosed about it, and the hostel isn't going to support itself, so there have to be other things that pay the mortgage throughout the year. I thnk of Laurel Creek as an example of this, with a bunkhouse, small cabins, and higher priced facilities that can make money year round. Kincora will always be more fondly thought of, but Laurel Creek realizes that the expenses have to be paid for by income. Places like that have strong business plans, and even then are very risky.

I don't think there are more than a few trail towns along the entire AT, and perhaps even a smaller handful along the PCT, that can support a hostel, even one with additional facilities, as a profit making (i.e. pay the bills from income) operation. I'd really discourage anyone from putting money into such a thing unless they could afford to lose it all.

Sorry to be negative, but I think I'm accurate, too.

TW

I have to agree.

Jeff
10-12-2007, 08:52
I really enjoyed my stays at these hostels:

Standing Bear north of the Smokeys
Kincora Hampton, TN
Dutch Haus Montebello, VA
Blackburn south of Harpers Ferry
The Cabin Andover, ME
Shaws Monson, ME

Are there others that are deemed "Can't miss" for my next hike???

Skyline
10-12-2007, 09:08
TW's post got me to thinking what hostels have been open the longest.

The Place?

Perisburg Church?

Shaws?

I probalby missed something obvious, right?


Rusty's has been around since 1982, I think. It's still open, tho there is now a set fee to stay there instead of a donation box.

Skyline
10-12-2007, 09:32
I've been reading all the posts in this thread, and it seems to me that only a few huge-hearted, brave individuals really hang in there for the long haul in the hostel "business." There is almost the certainty that a hostel will struggle to break even financially unless it is run like a real business, and with only a very few notable exceptions those that have failed to stay open beyond a third year were not run like a business.

Add to that the hassle of dealing with literally everyone who shows up on your doorstep, and it's easy to see why hostel operators often burn out. There are a few bad apples in every year's AT class, and becoming acquainted with just a handful can sour a hostel owner's view of hikers in general. All the more reason to use group peer pressure to get those bad apples to shape up or stay away from the hostels.

I kinda like the model that Ishmael uses up in Boiling Springs. He is a former thru-hiker who has built an AT-style shelter in his back yard. But it's not listed in any guidebook, and it's far enough from Boiling Springs that no hiker is going to just walk in there even if he or she knew where it was. Instead, Ishmael opens his shelter and amenities on an invitation-only basis when he comes into town. He visits with hikers in town and invites those he thinks would be compatible back to share his hospitality. I'm 99.9% certain he does this just because he wants to, and has no expectation of making money. (Note: this info was true when I hiked thru PA a few years ago; I have no idea if it's still current.)

I liked this idea so much that my partner Rodney and I are just putting the finishing touches on a shelter with amenities at the back of our property north of Luray, VA. It's about 10 miles from Thornton Gap in SNP, nestled among the trees, with amenities including a BBQ grill, picnic table, firepit, cut fire wood, laundry lines, flat grassy areas for tenting, lots of parking, and direct access to a brand new hot shower with towels provided, plus a sink and flush toilet.

We've named it "Rainbow's End," and it's there primarily for use by our shuttle clients (Mountain & Valley Shuttle Service, which is operated as a business) the night before or the night after their hikes, free of extra charges. We're also offering nearby trail crews and hiking clubs the opportunity to use the facilities. And like Ishmael in PA, we may offer it to compatible on-trail hikers by invitation only who are passing through the area when time permits and it's not being used by others.

Read more and see a photo here:

http://www.mvshuttle.com/parkingstarting.html

We'll let y'all know how it went after our first full season in '08.

Sly
10-12-2007, 11:44
I really enjoyed my stays at these hostels:

Standing Bear north of the Smokeys
Kincora Hampton, TN
Dutch Haus Montebello, VA
Blackburn south of Harpers Ferry
The Cabin Andover, ME
Shaws Monson, ME

Are there others that are deemed "Can't miss" for my next hike???

I had a good time at Church of the the Mountain in DWG. Timed just in time for the free food gig they had/have on Thursdays nights! ;) (I'm not sure if they do this anymore, or if the hostel is still open) There was a pretty good crew of hikers there at the time and Sister Karen was cool.

After doing the hostel thing on my 1st hike, now I tend to stay in motels when in town, but I'd probably stay at all the places you mentioned.

The Weasel
10-12-2007, 12:03
Hate to disagree, but I think Kincora falls in this category. The hostel in Pearisburg does too, except I don't know if Bill and that little dog actually hike. Those are two really good hostels, run not for love of or need for money, yet they are hardly failures.

Probably a majority of thru-hikers have at least given opening a hostel some thought.

Tater, I was specifically thinking about Kincora when I came up with 'category two', the 'subsidized hostel.' (The Blueberry Patch may be another like it.) The Place is a better example, but all fit: As another poster notes, while disagreeing with me, they get income, anywhere from some to a lot. But it doesn't cover the entire cost of operation, so the rest comes from somewhere. At "The Place" it comes from the church collection plate, but they do so gladly (I hope!) as part of their ministry. At the Patch and Kincora, it comes from the 'hip pocket' - their own wallets - of the owners. And God bless them for that, too. But there comes a point for some where they can't afford that any longer and when the subsidy ends, so does the hostel.

TW

The Weasel
10-12-2007, 12:07
Well, if she closes, is there anyone else left there for the hikers?

Kirby

Yes, you will walk right up to "Uncle Johnny's" as you come down the trail to Erwin, and you will be able to decide if he is as nice as some here think or as bad as some here think. Make up your own opinion.

TW

The Weasel
10-12-2007, 12:09
I really enjoyed my stays at these hostels:

Standing Bear north of the Smokeys
Kincora Hampton, TN
Dutch Haus Montebello, VA
Blackburn south of Harpers Ferry
The Cabin Andover, ME
Shaws Monson, ME

Are there others that are deemed "Can't miss" for my next hike???

Elmer's in Hot Springs.

TW

LIhikers
10-12-2007, 12:40
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel? ...........................................
(Work is slow today...and I'm daydreamin'!)

http://stateline-realty.com/_wsn/page6.html
The house on the top left corner of the page has the AT go right up the driveway on it's side. At the back of the property is the little, green, cabin shown on the page below the house. I imagine it could be turned into a small bunk room.

Blissful
10-12-2007, 12:57
Where on earth did you hear that Kincora is closing?

Let's quash that right now.

According to Bob Peoples, they're looking forward very much to Southbounder season, and next year's operations will depend greatly on Pat's health, which, thank God, is improving.

But the rumors of Kincora's closing are premature, to say the least.


Another hostel reported it while I was on the trail, Jack, okay? And I had not heard an update since then, having only been back a few weeks. A simple update on the situation would be nice rather than getting lamblasted (spelling?) which WBers like to do to each other for some strange reason.

But I am so very glad to hear Pat is doing better. They are terrific people.

Jack Tarlin
10-12-2007, 14:49
What I provided was a simple update which you evidently took as a "lambasting."

If I spoke strongly, it's because I'd heard this unfortunate rumor, too.

It is completely unfounded, at least at present, which is why I wanted to make sure people knew the facts.

Sorry you took it personally, Blissful.

jesse
10-12-2007, 15:14
opening a hostel because you like hiking is kinda like opening a bar cause you like drinking. Both are probabaly bad ideas.


it comes from the 'hip pocket' - their own wallets
I have an uncle who calls that "The Ass National"

Jack Tarlin
10-12-2007, 15:19
So opening a hiker hostel cuz you DON'T like hiking is a good idea?

Right, THAT makes a lot of sense. :-?

jesse
10-12-2007, 16:07
no. Opening up a hostel makes sense if you have a head for business and you have thought it through and you think you can make money. Just liking hiking won't cut it.

Sly
10-12-2007, 16:10
no. Opening up a hostel makes sense if you have a head for business and you have thought it through and you think you can make money. Just liking hiking won't cut it.

There's a couple of hostels on the PCT that are free, and the places and people match the best on the AT.

Sly
10-12-2007, 16:17
At the Patch and Kincora, it comes from the 'hip pocket' - their own wallets - of the owners. And God bless them for that, too. But there comes a point for some where they can't afford that any longer and when the subsidy ends, so does the hostel.

TW

You really can't compare the Blueberry Patch to the Kincora, one gets $20 (although you do get breakfast) while the other has a $4 suggested donation. I see the BP supplementing it's income with it's fees, but at the Kincora the donation may pay for gas that Bob and Pat use driving hikers in and out of town..

Jack Tarlin
10-12-2007, 16:23
The donations at Kincora don't even pay for toilet paper or hot water.

(And never mind the fact that a great many "guests" don't even leave a dime).

Kincora is funded primarily by out-of-pocket contributions from Bob and Pat and this is how it's been since 1997.

rafe
10-12-2007, 16:23
There's a couple of hostels on the PCT that are free, and the places and people match the best on the AT.

Well, some AT hostels are free as well, though they may ask for a donation. I'm thinking, in particular, of those run by churches (eg., Damascus, Pearisburg, DWG.)

Sly
10-12-2007, 16:25
Well, some AT hostels are free as well, though they may ask for a donation. I'm thinking, in particular, of those run by churches (eg., Damascus, Pearisburg, DWG.)

Asking for a donation isn't free. I mean free, as in no asking.

Sly
10-12-2007, 16:28
(And never mind the fact that a great many "guests" don't even leave a dime).


You mean like that group that didn't pay and left their dirty dishes? ;)

Jack Tarlin
10-12-2007, 16:33
A hostel that asks for.....or expects......a donation isn't "free."

There is a popular perception among all too many hikers that "Donations Accepted" means that the stay is free.

The actual translation of "Donations Accepted" really means "Donations are necessary to keep this place running; please give what you can, unless you are completely selfish and plan on screwing us, like most of your contemporaries."

In short, if you see a donation box at a hostel, put something in it. If you're in a position to do so, put in a little extra. If you see people skipping the box, say something.

But life ain't free, and neither is the Trail.

Jeff
10-12-2007, 16:42
Jack,

I would be interested to know if Bob and Pat Peoples were AT hikers before opening Kincora. They are such giving folks and I wonder why they do it.

Jack Tarlin
10-12-2007, 16:45
I know they hiked a bit when they lived in Vermont, and growing up in a Boston suburb, I'm willing to bet Bob hiked in New England some when he was younger, but I really don't think they had that much A.T. experience before 1997.

They do what they do because they love doing it, and because they're about the finest people you'd ever want to meet, and that says enough for me!

Sly
10-12-2007, 16:49
Not surprisingly Bob did some trail work for the Green Mountain Club when they lived in VT

Skyline
10-12-2007, 16:49
A hostel that asks for.....or expects......a donation isn't "free."

There is a popular perception among all too many hikers that "Donations Accepted" means that the stay is free.

The actual translation of "Donations Accepted" really means "Donations are necessary to keep this place running; please give what you can, unless you are completely selfish and plan on screwing us, like most of your contemporaries."

In short, if you see a donation box at a hostel, put something in it. If you're in a position to do so, put in a little extra. If you see people skipping the box, say something.

But life ain't free, and neither is the Trail.


Precisely why Rusty has gone to a set fee, after 25 years. Too many freeloaders thought the donation box was for everyone but them.

Appalachian Tater
10-12-2007, 17:27
Bob Peeples told me that they found their place by driving on roads near the trail until they found something they liked for sale. It's easier to find real estate these days.

FatMan
10-12-2007, 17:33
After 20+ years in the service industry, which included owning a popular restaurant in the Virginia Highlands area of Atlanta, the last thing I would want to do is build a hostel.

At least with the restaurant I was able to make some money.

The Mechanical Man
10-12-2007, 17:34
My Wife and I had that same dream 18 years ago, and it actually has been fun having strangers visit us all these years.
We are located at Smith Gap Pa. - see your thru-hiking handbook
It says you can get water at an outside spigot, .........but when we are home, we invite hikers in for a shower, order take out food, and sleep in the garage for FREE.
We are located just 1 mile down the road from the trail crossing, it's pretty cool to be able to go for a hike on the AT anytime we want to without using our car and burning gasoline. Not to mention spending lots of time doing trail maintenance every year, and building a new blue blaze trail to Stempa's Spring a few years ago, great fun.
We have had 50 - 100 hikers every year, Ed Garvey and "Wingfoot" slept here, and Earl Shaffer ate dinner at our table in 1998.
Don't be afraid to get a REAL job and buy a house near the AT, so you can invite strangers to visit with you too.
I also know for a fact, you don't need to charge $$money, or call your establishment a "HOSTEL" in order to make it a success.

Footslogger
10-12-2007, 17:50
[quote=Jack Tarlin;424642]The donations at Kincora don't even pay for toilet paper or hot water.

==================================

Man ...ain't that a fact. Ironically the paper goods and laundry detergent are the main things (other than gas/water) that hikers burn through. That's the main reason that every time we visit Bob and Pat one of the first things we do is stop off at the supermarket in town and stock up on TP, paper towels and laundry soap.

'Slogger

mountain squid
10-12-2007, 21:02
To anyone thinking about opening a hostel, I would suggest spending a summer (or two or three) as a caretaker at an established hostel. You won’t make any money, but you will gain experience. It is quite a bit different operating a hostel than it is being a hiker staying at one. As a hiker, it is all about yourself (I need to take a shower; I need to do my laundry; I need something to eat; I need to resupply; I need to get this funny rash looked at; I need this and I need that, etc, etc, etc...) And then, once all your chores are completed, you have the opportunity to relax.

As a hostel operator, all those needs of a hiker are directed at you. Instead of taking, you will be giving. Multiplied by 10 – 15 hikers per day during busy season. Hiker chores aren’t the only chores to do either. (If you think your kitchen/living room/bathroom is dirty now...) And, frequently, once you think everyone’s chores have been completed, someone will arrive late at night (just when you thought you might be able to relax), and if nothing else, will need a place to sleep.

During your summer as a caretaker, consider the services that you would like to provide (if you do decide to open a hostel): shuttles to town, shuttles for slacking, preparing/serving meals, operating a small resupply store, television, internet, etc. Not all hostels provide all services. Of course, location might dictate what you provide.

Anyway, just my .02 worth...enjoy your summer as a caretaker...

See you on the trail,
mt squid

Sly
10-12-2007, 21:21
Bob Peeples told me that they found their place by driving on roads near the trail until they found something they liked for sale. It's easier to find real estate these days.

Actually, I think the story goes after searching high and low, they basically bought it unseen over the phone.

hopefulhiker
10-12-2007, 21:42
Where do yawl think a hostel is most needed? I thought about Bland, VA at one point... Where else?

rafe
10-12-2007, 21:43
Where do yawl think a hostel is most needed?

Any road crossing where I haven't had a shower in over 3 days.

veteran
10-12-2007, 22:38
and the best place which is down on the river by the rafting center Cherokee Adventures (http://www.cherokeeadventures.com/riverside-camping.htm)

Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 11:42
Vermont could use a hostel or two, and maybe the Catawba, VA area.

Otherwise, I'm starting to think there might be enough.

Today's hikers are getting spoiled; once upon a time, people didn't think that being in the woods more than four or five consecutive days was a big deal; now it's considered a major hardship.

Hostels and town stops used to break up the hiking experience.

For a lot of folks these days, it's pretty much the other way around. :-?

rafe
10-13-2007, 11:49
Today's hikers are getting spoiled; once upon a time, people didn't think that being in the woods more than four or five consecutive days was a big deal; now it's considered a major hardship.

I don't know if it's a matter of being spoiled, but I've surely noted the trend over the years to more frequent town stops and shorter resupply intervals. Partly I think it's the lightweight thing, and partly it's the abundance of accurate, detailed trail guides leading to town food and resupply points. ;)

Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 11:52
You're right, Terrapin, there's altogether too much information out there, especially when it comes to telling folks about the best places to re-supply and all that. It really does make things too easy for 'em.

Who's responsible for getting all this information out there, anyway? Maybe they should re-think what they're doing. :D

rafe
10-13-2007, 11:57
Maybe my imagination, but I think it's also due to sprawl, with civilization creeping up the mountainside and intersecting the trail more often as the years go by.

Footslogger
10-13-2007, 12:00
You're right, Terrapin, there's altogether too much information out there, especially when it comes to telling folks about the best places to re-supply and all that. It really does make things too easy for 'em.

Who's responsible for getting all this information out there, anyway? Maybe they should re-think what they're doing. :D

=====================================

I dunno Jack ...more information and all, a person still has to get out there and walk the walk. Planning a hike is definitely a lot more straightforward nowadays but setting aside the time and implementing the hike is still the same. Even with all the information available these days I am amazed when I read on-line journals at the number of hikers who go home after a week or less because it "isn't what they thought it would be".

'Slogger

Just a Hiker
10-13-2007, 12:02
Vermont could use a hostel or two, and maybe the Catawba, VA area.

Otherwise, I'm starting to think there might be enough.

Today's hikers are getting spoiled; once upon a time, people didn't think that being in the woods more than four or five consecutive days was a big deal; now it's considered a major hardship.

Hostels and town stops used to break up the hiking experience.

For a lot of folks these days, it's pretty much the other way around. :-?

I agree with this, mainly because I am just as guilty as anyone; because I do in get in a hurry to get to some towns, not because of hostels, but primarily because of FOOD! I admit I would rather carry 3 days food instead of 7 or 8, plus I also like visiting some places because of friendships I have made over time. :D

Jim

rafe
10-13-2007, 12:06
I admit I would rather carry 3 days food instead of 7 or 8

Bingo. Not to mention a burger, pizza, milkshake or frappucino while you're at it. Oh, and shower and laundry, while you're at it. And if it's got fast internet access, all the better. :)

Just a Hiker
10-13-2007, 12:08
=====================================

I dunno Jack ...more information and all, a person still has to get out there and walk the walk. Planning a hike is definitely a lot more straightforward nowadays but setting aside the time and implementing the hike is still the same. Even with all the information available these days I am amazed when I read on-line journals at the number of hikers who go home after a week or less because it "isn't what they thought it would be".

'Slogger

I think some folks really get caught up in the commaraderie and Esprit De Corps that the trail offers, and then they get out on the trail and realize that it ain't all Hiker Feeds and TrailDays parties. Just my opinion!:D

Jim

Appalachian Tater
10-13-2007, 13:44
Even with all the information available these days I am amazed when I read on-line journals at the number of hikers who go home after a week or less because it "isn't what they thought it would be".

'Slogger

That's because most of your waking hours on a thru-hike are spent climbing up and down mountains but what people talk about on the internet is gear and food drops and trail towns and making stoves, etc. Getting from Amicalola to Springer is quite an awakening.

I don't remember reading anything about, for instance, breathing techniques that could help a new hiker with a too-heavy pack get up and down a steep mountain with few switchbacks. Or that your mind has to really keep the upperhand over your body because they are in constant conflict at first. Or what it really feels like to get up and pack up a wet tent and start hiking on a cold windy rainy day. Things like that.

Footslogger
10-13-2007, 19:56
[quote=Appalachian Tater;425084]That's because most of your waking hours on a thru-hike are spent climbing up and down mountains but what people talk about on the internet is gear and food drops and trail towns and making stoves, etc. Getting from Amicalola to Springer is quite an awakening.

===================================

Yeah ...and add to that non-stop rain day after day for 3 - 4 weeks. I wish I had a quarter for every time I heard a hiker in 2003 say ..."this sure wasn't in the brochure"

'Slogger

skeeterfeeder
10-14-2007, 07:23
That's because most of your waking hours on a thru-hike are spent climbing up and down mountains but what people talk about on the internet is gear and food drops and trail towns and making stoves, etc. Getting from Amicalola to Springer is quite an awakening.

I don't remember reading anything about, for instance, breathing techniques that could help a new hiker with a too-heavy pack get up and down a steep mountain with few switchbacks. Or that your mind has to really keep the upperhand over your body because they are in constant conflict at first. Or what it really feels like to get up and pack up a wet tent and start hiking on a cold windy rainy day. Things like that.


I think you hit it on the head.

Flush2wice
10-14-2007, 09:02
I think there needs to be 3 or 4 in the 100 mile wilderness. Maybe put one in Mahoosic notch. It would be great if you could do a thru-hike and stay every night in a hostel. Maybe not even take a back-pack. They might have to re-route the trail to do this but it would be worth it.

Lone Wolf
10-14-2007, 09:04
I think there needs to be 3 or 4 in the 100 mile wilderness. Maybe put one in Mahoosic notch. It would be great if you could do a thru-hike and stay every night in a hostel. Maybe not even take a back-pack. They might have to re-route the trail to do this but it would be worth it.

yes i agree. more shelters and hostels. i simply love them!

warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:05
I think there needs to be 3 or 4 in the 100 mile wilderness. Maybe put one in Mahoosic notch. It would be great if you could do a thru-hike and stay every night in a hostel. Maybe not even take a back-pack. They might have to re-route the trail to do this but it would be worth it.

ummm. . . kidding? I hope.

woodsy
10-14-2007, 09:13
yes i agree. more shelters and hostels. i simply love them!
You'll be happy to hear that they tore down the original Horn's Pond lean to,
but not happy to hear they built a new one. There are 3 lean tos there now!
You could house a small army there:rolleyes:

Kirby
10-14-2007, 09:19
You'll be happy to hear that they tore down the original Horn's Pond lean to,
but not happy to hear they built a new one. There are 3 lean tos there now!
You could house a small army there:rolleyes:

This is indeed correct, there is also a ridegerunner stationed there for the summer. Are there three over nighting lean tos, or two overnighting lean tos, and one siting lean to?

Kirby

warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:21
You'll be happy to hear that they tore down the original Horn's Pond lean to,
but not happy to hear they built a new one. There are 3 lean tos there now!
You could house a small army there:rolleyes:

Yeah. The last two years I was feeling like calling it a day by Horns Pond but after a short rest and a look around I headed into Stratton. Just not very trail comfy there for some reason. Might be the oddly placed monolithic lean-tos. Just doesn't really have that classic Maine charm.

woodsy
10-14-2007, 09:23
This is indeed correct, there is also a ridegerunner stationed there for the summer. Are there three over nighting lean tos, or two overnighting lean tos, and one siting lean to?

Kirby
Not sure about that, but i am sure it takes 2 maintainers full time to keep the place up. Dave and Jack were there all this summer. they were also responsible for the Bigelow Col campsite.

warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:29
Not sure about that, but i am sure it takes 2 maintainers full time to keep the place up. Dave and Jack were there all this summer. they were also responsible for the Bigelow Col campsite.

Yeah, the maintainers are definitely great for some good conversation. And they do a nice job at Horns Pond.

woodsy
10-14-2007, 09:34
Back to the original question.
I think a trail handy bar and grill would be alot more profitable than a hostel.
And at the end of the day, throw everyone out and send them along their merrily way.

warraghiyagey
10-14-2007, 09:37
Back to the original question.
I think a trail handy bar and grill would be alot more profitable than a hostel.
And at the end of the day, throw everyone out and send them along their merrily way.

But ossifer, I had to drive, I was too drunk to hike.

Heater
10-14-2007, 12:00
I liked this idea so much that my partner Rodney and I are just putting the finishing touches on a shelter with amenities at the back of our property north of Luray, VA.

Luray is a pretty small town, right? I know someone that works in a hotel there you ight have shuttled to. Larry Cottrill. Know him? He goes by the nickname of Bear sometimes.

Skyline
10-14-2007, 20:38
Luray is a pretty small town, right? I know someone that works in a hotel there you ight have shuttled to. Larry Cottrill. Know him? He goes by the nickname of Bear sometimes.


He's not in our database of clients since Rodney started it as a real business, but I might have shuttled him before that when I did shuttles just as a sideline. His name does sorta seem familiar, but I can't put a face to it.

Nean
10-15-2007, 13:10
Precisely why Rusty has gone to a set fee, after 25 years. Too many freeloaders thought the donation box was for everyone but them.

That was just his line (one of many) to lay a guilt trip on generous people.;) That place wasn't built on the back of freeloaders.:-?

Skyline
10-15-2007, 14:01
That was just his line (one of many) to lay a guilt trip on generous people.;) That place wasn't built on the back of freeloaders.:-?


No doubt some of us have been generous re: the donation box. And as such, we aren't likely to be susceptible to a perceived guilt trip.

And no doubt many have not been generous. I've watched hikers--even groups of four and five--leave without contributing a dime. They had stayed multiple nights, used the hot tub, did their laundry, drank Rusty's cold sodas, ate Rusty's pancakes and his chili, and slept in his bunkhouse. I've witnessed the same type of thing happens at The Place in Damascus, and undoubtedly it happens at other hostels that don't have a set fee.

Rusty isn't without faults, but are you suggesting he's been in this for 25 years, less a few short "sabbaticals," for the money? I told him many years ago he should establish a nightly charge, and I'm glad he finally has. It should allow the Hollow to stay open a while longer, and provide some stability.

warren doyle
10-15-2007, 14:45
You gotta be kidding me!

neo
10-15-2007, 14:56
Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel? My passion/hobby/love is music - writing, singing, playing, and listening to other people do the same. I think of opening a hostel along the AT one day with instruments everywhere....a haven for people who love to play, sing or just listen. I think for myself (after food of course!) something I'll really crave on the AT is an outlet for creating music. The first time I ever saw a backpacker's guitar I thought that was great! :) Only thing is I play piano....haven't seen a practical backpacker's piano yet!

(Work is slow today...and I'm daydreamin'!)


:D not a cost effective endeavor:cool: neo

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 16:30
No, Warren, I wasn't kidding in Post #59. In case anyone was curious, what I said there was that if Miss Janet is not open is some capacity next year in Erwin, most folks would probably do well by getting (or sharing) a motel room in town.

Mr. Doyle is, of course, free to disagree with me.

Question, tho, to Mr. Doyle: Did you ever overnight or were you ever a paying guest at Miss Janet's House in the years that it was in operation? Reason I'm asking is that I'm wondering on what information you're making your opinion.

Feel free to enlighten us.

warren doyle
10-15-2007, 17:11
Objectively, Uncle Johnny's is another lodging option for hikers arriving in Erwin.

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 17:25
Of course it's another option, Warren.

I never said otherwise.

What I said was that if Janet were not in business next year, there are thousands of experienced hikers who would opt for a motel when staying in Erwin. Plain and simply, this would be their preference.

Oh, and speaking of "experience", I asked you a very simple and direct question, which you deliberately chose to ignore. Have you ever overnighted or been a paying guest at Miss Janet's House? If so, when? And if not , what gives you any right to discuss the qualifications or merits of the place? Seems to me it's difficult to talk about how good a place may or may not be if one hasn't actually stayed there. :-?

warren doyle
10-15-2007, 17:33
"If she's not open, it is the considerd opinion of thousands of experienced folks that your best alternative lodging option in Erwin is to share a motel room with several friends."

Thousands huh? Have you kept track? What do you base this number (thousands) on.? Did you do a survey? Has there been a poll on Whiteblaze on this particular question?

Jack Tarlin
10-15-2007, 17:41
Warren:

During hiker season for the past few years, Miss Janet's was full every night, for weeks at a time on end.

When her place was full, people who were unable to stay there had to make arrangements to stay elsewhere.

Hundreds and hundreds of them opted to stay in area motels over the years, rather than stay at other local hostels, including the one that Warren mentioned.

And of the countless hikers that DID enjoy Janet's hospitality, I have no doubt that a great many of THEM would go to a motel before patronizing the place that Warren mentions.

So yeah, Warren, my figure is perfectly accurate: There really are thousands of folks who have preferred in the past, and would prefer in the future, to stay in a motel if Janet's weren't open for business.

Oh, and you STILL haven't answered my question about your qualifications for talking about her place.

Why am I not surprised?

Prediction: Now he'll say "Garbage!" and waddle off with his knickers in a twist. :D

weary
10-15-2007, 19:36
That was just his line (one of many) to lay a guilt trip on generous people.;) That place wasn't built on the back of freeloaders.:-?
It was obvious to me in 1993 that most of those that enjoyed Rusty's while I spent 4 or 5 days there were not contributing anything. I popped in a few $20 bills in hopes of partially making up for the free loaders, though I suspect most them had more resources than I did.

It seems to be a fundamental rule of American middle class society, which is what most hikers are. "Let the other guy pay." It's not a matter of being a cheapskate. It's a matter of false pride. It's why politics are mostly financed by the rich, who thus gain the benefits of having a strong voice in what happens in State Legislatures and Congress. And why important efforts fail for the lack of funding.

Weary www.matlt.org

minnesotasmith
10-16-2007, 06:12
1) Do it north of Damascus, or maybe in Gatlinburg.

2) Ideally have it be within a mile of the Trail, so no hitching needed. Otherwise, pick a good resupply point with no current hostel. (Troutville comes to mind...)

3) Pick a spot where there is no other hostel within 30 miles (not Hot Springs or Damascus, which already have multiple ones).

4) Figure out what slackpacking you can offer, at a mutually fair price. If you can slack hikers for 2-3 days northward, you'll significantly multiply your stayer nights per hiker. (Southward not nearly as important, as most thrus are still NOBOs.)

5) Decide exactly what kind of arrangement you intend to offer. Will you allow couples to share a bed or a room, or not? If yes, having private rooms for couples (at a higher rate) would be a nice offering.

6) Have explicit policies on dogs and booze. Make them VERY clear through signage, signup forms, what you tell guidebooks, etc.

7) Have a huge, well-designed bunkroom, with lots of nonsplintery bunks that are stable and easy to climb, and shelving for gear. (Several levels of lighting wouldn't hurt, either.) That is where most hikers will want to stay, even when in many cases they can afford private rooms.

8) Get in the guidebooks ASAP, ideally before you open. Make sure all the outfitters for 200+ miles south (and maybe some to the north) have handout maps aplenty to give out on your location.

9) Go to the Rucks and Gatherings to publicize your opening. Commit to a certain span of time you'll be open each year (at least 4 months long IMO, preferably 6+).

10) Talk to other hostel operators for LOTS of good advice before you do anything else.

11) Good luck! Hostels are a big part of what makes the AT the unique, wonderful trail community it is.

rickb
10-16-2007, 06:36
What ever happened with the property that Warren Doyle was auctioning off near the AT this summer.

Anyone know if a Hostel is in the works there? Or is it still off the market?

minnesotasmith
10-16-2007, 08:39
What ever happened with the property that Warren Doyle was auctioning off near the AT this summer. [?]

He's probably going to sell it ten times to ten different people, and when he gets his butt hauled into court over his actions, talk about how "unfair" it is to hold him to "outdated" concepts like honesty. :rolleyes:

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 09:36
What ever happened with the property that Warren Doyle was auctioning off near the AT this summer.

Anyone know if a Hostel is in the works there? Or is it still off the market?

It was overpriced and he was too cheap to advertise except here and on bulletin boards at the local grocery stores.

Marta
10-16-2007, 11:41
I am completely disgusted by several of the preceding posts. It is one thing to dispute another hiker's information; it is entirely something else to attack their character NO MATTER WHAT THE SUPPOSED PROVOCATION. (Spare me, and all the other Whiteblaze readers who are sick to death of this line of attack, the justifications for the endless attacks. We've heard all before WAY TOO MANY TIMES!!!) I, for one, do not respect anyone who indulges themselves in that way. The endless attacks have exactly the opposite effect you are intending--I am not impressed by your logic, but an repelled by the spewing of venom day after day, week after week, month after month.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 11:45
I am completely disgusted by several of the preceding posts. It is one thing to dispute another hiker's information; it is entirely something else to attack their character NO MATTER WHAT THE SUPPOSED PROVOCATION. (Spare me, and all the other Whiteblaze readers who are sick to death of this line of attack, the justifications for the endless attacks. We've heard all before WAY TOO MANY TIMES!!!) I, for one, do not respect anyone who indulges themselves in that way. The endless attacks have exactly the opposite effect you are intending--I am not impressed by your logic, but an repelled by the spewing of venom day after day, week after week, month after month.

Um, Mr. Doyle is proud of being cheap. If that is venom, it comes from his own posts as well.

generoll
10-16-2007, 12:58
I'm with Marta on this one. Give it a rest.

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 13:50
rickb post #134 "What ever happened with the property that Warren Doyle was auctioning off near the AT this summer?

Anyone know if a Hostel is in the works there? Or is it still off the market?"

The property is still on the market. I'm not 'desperate' to sell it. I know it will eventually be sold at my asking price ($200,000).

It is in a good location for a potential hostel/bed & breakfast and a shuttle service for hikers walking the trail between Troutville/Daleville and Damascus since it is only 1.5 miles off I-81 (exit #54). The eastern edge of the ten acres is adjacent to the trail corridor ( a half-mile north of the one-room schoolhouse/Settlers Museum). There is a four-five bedroom farmhouse (occupied by renters since I bought the property in 1986); a large wormy chestnut barn that is structurally sound; two outbuildings that could easily be converted to a hostel; a pond/stream/spring; ample parking; and, at least four acres for possible cabin sites.

Marta post #137 - Thanks for speaking up. I wish more WB folks would.

As to posts #135, 136, 138 - Just more expected garbage.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 14:20
As to posts #135, 136, 138 - Just more expected garbage.

Out of curiosity, exactly how has this property been advertised? In a newspaper? Has it been placed in the MLS? How long has it been on the market at this price?

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 14:35
It is my policy to not directly answer WB internegators.
However, I welcome questions from other WB members.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 14:42
It is my policy to not directly answer WB internegators.
However, I welcome questions from other WB members.

That's what I thought.

I stand by my opinion that the property is overpriced and that it has not been properly advertised because of the expense or commission that it would entail.

Otherwise, it would have already sold.

My apologies to Generoll and Marta.

Miss Janet
10-16-2007, 14:46
"Ever think about buying land near the AT and building a new hostel?"

Closing Miss Janet's House and basically starting over is just like building a new hostel... except that I already KNOW how much work it will be and I have fewer romantic notions about running a hostel as a business. Don't get me wrong, I am still VERY excited and optimistic but just a little more realistic this time around!

Every year I speak to dozens of people who really think they would love to have a hostel "someday". These are just a few things I suggest you consider.

*** You have to really LIKE people.
*** You need to be VERY realistic about the $$ you have to make.
*** You have to be willing and able to work 18 hour days for weeks at a time.
*** You have to tolerate difference in people and respect individuals who are very different from yourself.
*** Accept right away that your boss will often be an incompetent PITA!

*** BE SURE THAT YOUR SERVICES ARE NEEDED!!!! Several people have tried to open hostels over the last few years in areas that they were not necessary. Regardless of how nice a place you will have and what you will provide... if it is not in a place where the hostel is NEEDED you will see frustratingly few hikers.

rafe
10-16-2007, 14:52
...if it is not in a place where the hostel is NEEDED you will see frustratingly few hikers.

That could be the problem with Warren's place near Cloverdale, eh?

chief
10-16-2007, 14:59
That's what I thought.

I stand by my opinion that the property is overpriced and that it has not been properly advertised because of the expense or commission that it would entail.

Otherwise, it would have already sold.

My apologies to Generoll and Marta.If WD is not in a hurry to sell, he is exactly the type who probably should sell "by owner". In my experience, RE agents don't offer much value with lower priced properties. Whether the property is overpriced, I don't know and I doubt that you do.

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 15:05
It is not near Cloverdale. It is in the Groseclose neighborhood outside Atkins, VA approximately 40-45 road miles north of Damascus (73 trail miles north of Damascus; 45 trail miles south of Bland; 89 trail miles south of Pearisburg, VA; and, approximately 100 miles road miles, via I-81, south of exit #150 (Daleville/Cloverdale exit in the Land of Neon).

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 15:08
Insightful.

I am selling it myself.

Overpriced? Only time will tell because isn't beauty (value) in the eye of the beholder?

minnesotasmith
10-16-2007, 15:23
That hasn't been explained on this thread, the best definition for it I've ever seen is here:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=379281&highlight=************#post379281

(Not posted directly, so the mods can't reasonably gripe.)

Oh, and Warren, price is normally related to utility and demand. Someone may REALLY want an antibiotic to deal with an intractable infection, but they don't expect to spend ten grand on it, just BC they're hosed without it.

mweinstone
10-16-2007, 15:27
yeah,...what ms said.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 17:36
If WD is not in a hurry to sell, he is exactly the type who probably should sell "by owner". In my experience, RE agents don't offer much value with lower priced properties. Whether the property is overpriced, I don't know and I doubt that you do.

Oh, I'm all for FSBO and think real estate agents do very little for what they earn at these inflated housing prices. I certainly did not criticize the concept. Someone asked what happened to the property Mr. Doyle had for sale and I said it was overpriced and he is too cheap to advertise it properly. If you want to sell property it must either be in a very well-trafficked location or else you have to get it in the MLS or at the very least in the local paper. You also have to ask for a little more than you can REASONABLY expect to get so there is a little room for the traditional bargaining. (Although apartments here have frequently gone for significantly OVER the asking price.)

Sly
10-16-2007, 18:14
Um, Mr. Doyle is proud of being cheap.

Where I come from we call it being frugal.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 18:36
Where I come from we call it being frugal.

There's a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.

Frugal is not having dessert in a restaurant and having a scoop of ice cream when you get home instead. Cheap is eating off peoples' plates after they leave the restaurant.

Frugal is going to a matinee and not buying popcorn. Cheap is sneaking in to the cinema and eating leftover popcorn from boxes picked up off the floor.

Frugal is FSBO with an ad in the paper and a listing on the MLS for a flat fee. Cheap is FSBO and sticking a printout with your phone number on little tear-offs at the bottom on the bulletin board at the grocery store plus a couple of posts on WhiteBlaze.

Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 19:25
There's a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.

Frugal is not having dessert in a restaurant and having a scoop of ice cream when you get home instead. Cheap is eating off peoples' plates after they leave the restaurant.

Frugal is going to a matinee and not buying popcorn. Cheap is sneaking in to the cinema and eating leftover popcorn from boxes picked up off the floor.

Frugal is FSBO with an ad in the paper and a listing on the MLS for a flat fee. Cheap is FSBO and sticking a printout with your phone number on little tear-offs at the bottom on the bulletin board at the grocery store plus a couple of posts on WhiteBlaze.

you don't know warren. shut the **** up

Jester2000
10-16-2007, 19:32
Hikers don't like lots of rules. But, the successful hostels I have visited had a NO ALCOHOL & NO DRUGS requirement.

Actually, there are a number of "successful" hostels that allow moderate alcohol use, but they tend to have a no dickweed requirement. Regardless of the policy, it should be apparent to all what that policy is. I always assume that church hostels are no alcohol, but I make a point of asking about the rules anywhere else. As regards illegal drugs, no one in their right mind should have an official policy of tolerating them on their property, regardless of how anyone feels about illegal drugs.


. . .Add to that the hassle of dealing with literally everyone who shows up on your doorstep, and it's easy to see why hostel operators often burn out. There are a few bad apples in every year's AT class, and becoming acquainted with just a handful can sour a hostel owner's view of hikers in general. All the more reason to use group peer pressure to get those bad apples to shape up or stay away from the hostels.

Anyone who works in ANY business that involves the public will have to deal with more than a few "bad apples," and I can say this from years of experience. Dealing with rude, unappreciative, cheap, abusive jerks with a misplaced sense of entitlement who expect you to clean up after them, fawn over them, and read their minds is a way of life for every retail worker, waiter and bartender you've ever met. And for every story you can tell about rude service, I can tell a dozen about rude customers. As far as things go, if you get only a few "bad apples" every year (and you will), you'll be living in a dream world.


In short, if you see a donation box at a hostel, put something in it.

See, now I feel terrible. All these years I've been taking money OUT. Someone really should have made it clear that the donations weren't for my hike. My bad.

PS -- Kincora, The Cabin, Shaw's, Miss J's, Church of the Mountain, The Church in Vernon, and, though not a hostel, Jon Greene & Kathy Duhon's house. The Golden Age of hostels, baby.

max patch
10-16-2007, 19:52
I started to list my favorite hostels until I realized that all of them have given up and closed. Oh well.

Jester2000
10-16-2007, 19:54
I started to list my favorite hostels until I realized that all of them have given up and closed. Oh well.

I once heard it said that if you trace the one common thread in all of your bad relationships, you discover that the only thing they have in common is you.

Perhaps good hostels close after Max visits them.

Lone Wolf
10-16-2007, 19:56
I once heard it said that if you trace the one common thread in all of your bad relationships, you discover that the only thing they have in common is you.

Perhaps good hostels close after Max visits them.

more like a s**tload of inconsiderate bungholes after max visited

Jester2000
10-16-2007, 20:05
more like a s**tload of inconsiderate bungholes after max visited

As I've already noted, ANYONE who gets involved in ANY business that deals with the public had better be sure that they can deal with inconsiderate bungholes. If you don't think that we live in a world full of bungholes, then you haven't spent enough time tapping kegs, and you're living in a beautiful fairy-filled world of light and song, and it would be wrong for you to shatter that world by opening a business.

Am I an apologist for the rude, the inconsiderate, the loutish? Far from it. And I think we should call people on bad behavior when we see it, 'cause a lot of times employees, at least, don't have that option (I'm not just talking about the trail here).

There is gray area as far as hostels go, because, as pointed out already, many of them aren't technically operating as businesses. But if you think you're going to open a hostel and everyone is going to be as cool as the small group of friends you hiked with, well you're in for a big surprise. Fair warning.

And, um, the thing about Max was a joke.

warren doyle
10-17-2007, 13:28
you don't know warren. shut the **** up

First sentence of your post is right on. Let me explain:

post #153

There's a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.

Frugal is not having dessert in a restaurant and having a scoop of ice cream when you get home instead. I NEVER HAVE DONE THAT.
Cheap is eating off peoples' plates after they leave the restaurant.
I DON'T EAT OFF PEOPLES' PLATES AFTER THEY LEAVE THE RESTAURANT. SOMETIMES I EAT THEIR LEFTOVERS ON MY OWN PLATE. IT'S MORE HYGIENIC.

Frugal is going to a matinee and not buying popcorn.
NOW, I'VE DONE THAT
Cheap is sneaking in to the cinema and eating leftover popcorn from boxes picked up off the floor.
I'VE NEVER HAVE GONE INTO A MOVIE THEATRE (EXCEPT ONCE WHEN THERE WAS NO ONE AT THE TICKET BOOTH/CONCESSION STAND/TICKET COLLECTION STATION) WITHOUT PAYING AN ADMISSION PRICE. I HAVE ALWAYS ENTERED BY THE FRONT DOOR AND HAD MY TICKET RIPPED IN HALF BY A THEATRE EMPLOYEE. AND, THE POPCORN BOX WAS UPRIGHT AND SECURE IN THE POPCORN/DRINK HOLDER ATTACHED TO THE CHAIR.

Frugal is FSBO with an ad in the paper and a listing on the MLS for a flat fee. Cheap is FSBO and sticking a printout with your phone number on little tear-offs at the bottom on the bulletin board at the grocery store plus a couple of posts on WhiteBlaze.

I DON'T CARE IF I'M CHEAP OR FRUGAL. WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS THAT INTERNEGATORS GET THEIR FACTS STRAIGHT. IT ONLY HURTS THEIR ALREADY QUESTIONABLE CREDIBILITY.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 13:32
Mr. Doyle, my offer of helping you find employment is still open.

Johnny Thunder
10-17-2007, 14:18
WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS INTERNEGATORS

What's an "internegators"?

Flush2wice
10-17-2007, 14:29
An internet interregator? An internet negator? Is it sort of like an internerrorist only not as bad?

A-Train
10-17-2007, 14:49
New hostels really aren't needed on the AT. I mean, c'mon there are 4 in GA in the first 66 miles.

The only place IMO where a hostel would be nice is somewhere in NY or CT, but it certainly isn't needed. Problem is rent is so damn expensive up there. \

There isn't really an affordable place to stay between Vernon and Dalton, but any resourceful hiker can make do.

Marta
10-17-2007, 14:58
Mr. Doyle, my offer of helping you find employment is still open.


What about "DROP THE SUBJECT!" do you not understand? You're only demeaning yourself.

A-Train
10-17-2007, 15:20
There's a couple of hostels on the PCT that are free, and the places and people match the best on the AT.

Which ones are free? The only one I can think of is Pooh's Corner, where he wouldn't accept money. Everyone else has a donation box. Even the Saufley's altho most people seem to think they're "free".

Jack Tarlin
10-17-2007, 17:02
Mr. Doyle:

Thank you for acknowledging that you have a history of going into movie theaters without paying. I'm glad we've finaly cleared this up.

In the past, when various folks have brought up the subject of your using services without paying for them, you've ignored them, refused to answer direct qustions, or hissed "Garbage!!" instead of making a simple, mature reply.

But your recent post has certainly clarified matters. Thank you for finally piublicly acknowldging at least some of your previoushistory of theft.

And this shouldn't need to be said, Mr. Doyle, but the fact that there isn't a cinema employee on duty doesn't give anyone the right to waltz on in to the screening room for free. By this logic, is it also OK to leave a supermarket with a cart ful of unpaid groceries if there doesn't happen to be a cashier at the register when one goes to the check-out line? Do you think this is OK, too?

Oh, and I'm glad the Mr. Doyle thinks it's perfctly OK even hygenic, to use one's own plate when finishing off a stranger's half-eaten diner. Yep, using you own plate certainly takes care of the posibility that the other guy has strep, tuberculosis, whooping cough, you name it.

Eating scraps of food abandoned by complete strangers is not only cheap and unhygenic, and not only makes hikers look like beggars, it's pretty disgusting, too.

But my thanks to Mr. Doyle for giving the particulars of some of his more unsavory habits.

In future, when this subject comes up again, we can reference this last post of his; God forbid anyone should get their facts wrong when discussing this. :D

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 17:07
You're only demeaning yourself.

I pride myself on my humility!

Sly
10-17-2007, 18:04
Which ones are free? The only one I can think of is Pooh's Corner, where he wouldn't accept money. Everyone else has a donation box. Even the Saufley's altho most people seem to think they're "free".

Yeah, I was specifically thinking of the Sauffley's. They didn't have one when I was there, but seeing all they do and the associated costs, I can't blame them for having a donation box. Is there a suggested donation?

What about the one after, and in Old Station, Skykomish?

SGT Rock
10-17-2007, 18:06
Hey, does Bob have a season for Kinkora? I may be walking through there in February and would have to not get to stop by.

Starting early sucks :(

Jack Tarlin
10-17-2007, 18:09
If he's there, you'll be welcome.

Including February! :D

SGT Rock
10-17-2007, 18:10
Thanks JAck. Now I only wish Ms Janet had a place ready for next season.

Kirby
10-17-2007, 18:14
Hey, does Bob have a season for Kinkora? I may be walking through there in February and would have to not get to stop by.

Starting early sucks :(

You can always start later:-?.

Kirby
30-5-2???

Kirby
10-17-2007, 18:14
Thanks JAck. Now I only wish Ms Janet had a place ready for next season.

I was looking forward to staying there as well, I have heard nothing but good things about her and her business.

Kirby
30-5-2???

SGT Rock
10-17-2007, 18:22
You can always start later:-?.

Kirby
30-5-2???
I could, but I would be wasting time. I am on my terminal leave 26 January and I can either hike or sit around wishing I was on the trail. I have hiked in winter and the benefits to getting out there outweigh the negatives in my opinion. I need this - as soon as possible.



I was looking forward to staying there as well, I have heard nothing but good things about her and her business.

Kirby
30-5-2???
She is good people. If there is a way to do something for hikers, she will find it.

High Life
10-17-2007, 19:40
I want to have a hostel just like MRO hostel in Damascus, VA. I would hire Wally to help me run it.

A-Train
10-18-2007, 12:10
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of the Sauffley's. They didn't have one when I was there, but seeing all they do and the associated costs, I can't blame them for having a donation box. Is there a suggested donation?

What about the one after, and in Old Station, Skykomish?


Yah, the Saufley's jar is very subtle, you actually have to look around for it. Most people seem to dump all their change. Seems like most people put their money into filling up their gas tanks on the loaner trucks.

The Andersons, Heitmans in Old Station and Dinsmores in Skykomish all have pretty obvious donation jars.

Oh yah, and there's a new EXCELLENT hostel run in Ashland now by True North (01) and her husband. I recommend it highly to anyone hiking thru southern Oregon!

Nightwalker
10-22-2007, 22:46
Frugal is not having dessert in a restaurant and having a scoop of ice cream when you get home instead. Cheap is eating off peoples' plates after they leave the restaurant.

I've always thought that was one of his best ideas!

You know, Warren can be a troll or a jerk sometimes, but all the attacking that some of you guys do has really given me quite an appreciation for him. Anyone that inspires so much passion is a very interesting person, IMNSFHO.

Nightwalker
10-22-2007, 22:49
What about "DROP THE SUBJECT!" do you not understand? You're only demeaning yourself.

I don't think he cares. He's got Buck, errr Warren, Fever.

ed bell
10-22-2007, 22:52
I could, but I would be wasting time. I am on my terminal leave 26 January and I can either hike or sit around wishing I was on the trail. I have hiked in winter and the benefits to getting out there outweigh the negatives in my opinion. I need this - as soon as possible.Might have to drop by your trip to say hello, SGT. I'm a sucker for the wintertime. Don't know that I could keep up, but I could bring you a steak.:sun

minnesotasmith
10-23-2007, 02:06
You know, Warren can be a troll or a jerk sometimes, but all the attacking that some of you guys do has really given me quite an appreciation for him. Anyone that inspires so much passion is a very interesting person, IMNSFHO.

I take it you wish you could vote for GWB for a 3rd term, then? ;)

Just being despied doesn't mean someone is misunderstood. An accurate understanding often underlies assessing someone that way. That is, the more you know about some things in life, the more contemptuous you can rightly become about them.

Nightwalker
10-23-2007, 02:13
I take it you wish you could vote for GWB for a 3rd term, then? ;)

Just being despied doesn't mean someone is misunderstood. An accurate understanding often underlies assessing someone that way. That is, the more you know about some things in life, the more contemptuous you can rightly become about them.

I think that what I meant was, "If MS hate 'em, they can't be all bad." Or something like that. :D

Appalachian Tater
10-23-2007, 08:54
You know, Warren can be a troll or a jerk sometimes, but all the attacking that some of you guys do has really given me quite an appreciation for him. Anyone that inspires so much passion is a very interesting person, IMNSFHO.

I agree that he is interesting but hope that his other supporters use more flattering terms than "troll" and "jerk" to describe him.

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 08:56
Might have to drop by your trip to say hello, SGT. I'm a sucker for the wintertime. Don't know that I could keep up, but I could bring you a steak.:sun
Yer invited to my camp any night.

Cloudwalker
10-23-2007, 15:30
"Anybody ever think about building a hostel?"

Not a hostel, but I've always wanted a trail shelter in my back yard. One of these days I'm going to build one if I don't do anything in it but cook on the grill.:)

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 15:43
"Anybody ever think about building a hostel?"

Not a hostel, but I've always wanted a trail shelter in my back yard. One of these days I'm going to build one if I don't do anything in it but cook on the grill.:)
Now that is something I have thought about. Not exactly a shelter - but if I had some land near the AT I would like to put in a covered area with a table and benches, a fire ring, tent areas, and some cable food storage. This way I would always have a nice place to hang out and I would open it up to hikers so they would know where it was and could use it.

ed bell
10-23-2007, 22:02
Yer invited to my camp any night.I'll keep my eye on yer hike SGT. I'd like to see you during the trip, especially in winter. The SoRuck will find you at the start of your journey?

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 22:06
The SORUCK is before I start - I plan to make that.

ed bell
10-23-2007, 22:30
The SORUCK is before I start - I plan to make that.
I'll be there.:cool:

Phoenix Rising
10-23-2007, 23:07
To anyone thinking about opening a hostel, I would suggest spending a summer (or two or three) as a caretaker at an established hostel. You won’t make any money, but you will gain experience. It is quite a bit different operating a hostel than it is being a hiker staying at one. As a hiker, it is all about yourself (I need to take a shower; I need to do my laundry; I need something to eat; I need to resupply; I need to get this funny rash looked at; I need this and I need that, etc, etc, etc...) And then, once all your chores are completed, you have the opportunity to relax.

As a hostel operator, all those needs of a hiker are directed at you. Instead of taking, you will be giving. Multiplied by 10 – 15 hikers per day during busy season. Hiker chores aren’t the only chores to do either. (If you think your kitchen/living room/bathroom is dirty now...) And, frequently, once you think everyone’s chores have been completed, someone will arrive late at night (just when you thought you might be able to relax), and if nothing else, will need a place to sleep.

During your summer as a caretaker, consider the services that you would like to provide (if you do decide to open a hostel): shuttles to town, shuttles for slacking, preparing/serving meals, operating a small resupply store, television, internet, etc. Not all hostels provide all services. Of course, location might dictate what you provide.

Anyway, just my .02 worth...enjoy your summer as a caretaker...

See you on the trail,
mt squid

Of all the posts here, I believe this is the best advice I have read, and Mt Squid should know as I know he has spent a few days working at a hostel in the past. While I was on the road angeling in 2005 I was beginning to think owning a hostel would be a great way to stay in the community of hikers all the time. However after working for Honey and Bear at the Cabin in Maine for almost 3 months my idea changed complete. I loved my time there, but it took me months to recover from the back pain associated with hauling laundry up and down the stairs, making beds, cleaning the bathroom common areas, vacuuming, washing dishes, cooking dinner and all the other chores associated with running the hostel on a daily basis. And of course on the days Honey and I made the 150-mile round trip drive to the nearest warehouse for groceries all the chores needed to be done in addition to the grocery run. Remember, the towns we love so much for being near the trail are not normally near the big stores needed to re-supply an ever-hungry group of hikers. Hikers always love the AYCE policy at the Cabin, but I doubt any of them really realize the amount of food needed to make that happen, roughly every 8 days a new 50lb bag of potatoes was opened… the amount of food was truly staggering.

Of course the Cabin is known for being a full service hostel, and it’s not necessary to offer all the services they do, but no matter what you decide to offer, know it will be a lot of work, and spending a summer as a caretaker or even assisting an owner would be a wise idea. Just remember, it really is a NEVER-ending job… and I love to serve, but that was definitely the hardest job I have ever done.
Phoenix Rising