View Full Version : Trail Days 08
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:08
According to the county paper, the Damascus town council wants to charge $5 for each person that camps in the TD campground plus $10 to park inside next year. The council also suggested prohibiting camping on private property unless public restrooms are provided. HMMM. This will be interesting.
Has that idea been passed, I mean is it a firm decision yet?
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:11
Has that idea been passed, I mean is it a firm decision yet?
don't know. but it should be
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 12:13
It'll keep some of the riff-raff away, and will help defray town expenses for the event, which must be huge.
I have no real problem with these changes.
Except for maybe the camping on private land thing. If a homeowner wants to let people crash in his back yard, that should be HIS business, unless the town like Erwin) has specific ordinances prohibiting yard camping.
I think it may be a good idea. The reason I feel that way is that the money would help cover the cost of things.
It'll keep some of the riff-raff away, and will help defray town expenses for the event, which must be huge.
I have no real problem with these changes.
Except for maybe the camping on private land thing. If a homeowner wants to let people crash in his back yard, that should be HIS business, unless the town like Erwin) has specific ordinances prohibiting yard camping.
I agree with you as long as the owner is willing to let the campers use his bathroom so they won't have to relieve themselves in the woods where eyes may be present.
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:16
Except for maybe the camping on private land thing. If a homeowner wants to let people crash in his back yard, that should be HIS business, unless the town like Erwin) has specific ordinances prohibiting yard camping.
don't know of any ordinance against it.
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 12:18
I predict there will be all sorts of hullabaloo over this, then it'll blow over.
But ultimately this decision should be made by the people who actually live in Damascus, and those who are elected to represent them.
It's town business, period.
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:20
It'll keep some of the riff-raff away
they'll sneak in the back way
Cannibal
10-11-2007, 12:22
This past TD was my first and I was amazed at the mess that was created. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to clean-up. I've got zero issues with the town recouping some of that expense.
Just a Hiker
10-11-2007, 12:28
Sounds like a good idea, but I am not sure if some folks who offer their front yards for camping will want to put a portable ****ter in their yard.
Jim
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 12:31
Of course they won't. The purpose of the new ordinance is obviously to discourage yard camping.
Creek Dancer
10-11-2007, 12:35
I wonder what that might mean for "The Place". Tents covered the lawn.
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 12:37
I'm sure there are people in Damascus who wouldn't be all busted up if the Place closed altogether.
And there are days when I can't say I'd blame them, either.
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:39
I'm sure there are people in Damascus who wouldn't be all busted up if the Place closed altogether.
And there are days when I can't say I'd blame them, either.
the church oughta bulldoze it for a parking lot. i've heard that rumor
This past TD was my first and I was amazed at the mess that was created. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to clean-up. I've got zero issues with the town recouping some of that expense.
Messy for sure. This year was my first as well, I had a great time, got to camp next to the WB hammock set up so it was nice and quiet ( well, sort of) but I was amazed at the amount of trash on the ground, and around unemptied receptacles & PJohns.
We paid to camp there though, so I guess that wasn't the 'free' place that they will be charging for next year. I hope they make some money to recoup expenses, ,maybe a contingent of hikers wants to organize a day after help team to assist with clean up or something - or has that been done?
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:46
Messy for sure. This year was my first as well, I had a great time, got to camp next to the WB hammock set up so it was nice and quiet ( well, sort of) but I was amazed at the amount of trash on the ground, and around unemptied receptacles & PJohns.
We paid to camp there though, so I guess that wasn't the 'free' place that they will be charging for next year. I hope they make some money to recoup expenses, ,maybe a contingent of hikers wants to organize a day after help team to assist with clean up or something - or has that been done?
camping was free. you paid to park a vehicle inside maybe? come monday morning after T Days the campground is spotless.
Yes, you're right LWolf, paid to park inside, by the building down there. That's awesome that it's so clean, does the town do that, or hikers? I want to believe it was hikers :)
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:50
Yes, you're right, paid to park inside, by the building down there. That's awesome that it's so clean, does the town do that, or hikers? I want to believe it was hikers :)
hikers do it
I'm sure there are people in Damascus who wouldn't be all busted up if the Place closed altogether.
And there are days when I can't say I'd blame them, either.
Jack or Wolf, just curious as to why? Three of us stayed there one evening a month ago and we had the place to ourselves.
Nice :)
Thanks for filling me in, I wish I couldv'e stayed through Sunday.
Trillium
10-11-2007, 12:55
the cost to the town is likely for OT for Police and DPW.
the proposed charge seems reasonable to me
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 12:58
Jack or Wolf, just curious as to why? Three of us stayed there one evening a month ago and we had the place to ourselves.
In April and May when the bulk of thru-hikers come through The Place gets trashed. People totally disregard the few rules posted. and simply don't pay the suggested donation. It's one of the only hostels on the AT that doesn't have a resident caretaker. I'm not saying all thru-hikers are this way but quite a few are. Enough for the church to notice.
D'Artagnan
10-11-2007, 13:00
Just curious, but do local businesses see TD as a blessing or a curse? I would imagine local eateries do substantially more business during TD. What's the scuttlebutt from the inside, LW?
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 13:02
Just curious, but do local businesses see TD as a blessing or a curse? I would imagine local eateries do substantially more business during TD. What's the scuttlebutt from the inside, LW?
i would say a blessing. just about every business benefits.
Cannibal
10-11-2007, 13:03
Just curious, but do local businesses see TD as a blessing or a curse? I would imagine local eateries do substantially more business during TD. What's the scuttlebutt from the inside, LW?
I know I spent money on some darn fine burritos while in Damascus.
Ron Haven
10-11-2007, 13:04
Nice :)
Thanks for filling me in, I wish I couldv'e stayed through Sunday.Can you rent port a johns there?One will be needed for hobo centeral.
I don't know. I'm sure there's a local business that rents them for the weekend.
Would this be a PAY toilet? you could have a PJohn butler who goes in and wipes the seat with a nice new Mapdana :)
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 13:06
Can you rent port a johns there?One will be needed for hobo centeral.
yes. there's an outfit in a nearby town that rents them
derekthered
10-11-2007, 13:07
Just curious, but do local businesses see TD as a blessing or a curse? I would imagine local eateries do substantially more business during TD. What's the scuttlebutt from the inside, LW?
I don't by any means live in Damascus so I'm not one to really say what the local consensus on the event is, but when I passed through this past April several locals came up to me requesting I come back for Trail Days. So I assume at least some see it as a good thing. It pumps some money into their economy, especially at the eateries.
warren doyle
10-11-2007, 13:11
There are plenty of free, and legal, places to camp (both car and tent camping) within a five-mile radius of Damascus. I could never understand why people all want to camp in a fenced-in, industry-polluted site. I guess the herd will pay $5 for that 'privilege' now.
D'Artagnan
10-11-2007, 13:12
I know I spent money on some darn fine burritos while in Damascus.
Yeah! I was just back in Damascus Sunday and I stopped by the Baja. One of my "Don't-Miss" places. :D
In April and May when the bulk of thru-hikers come through The Place gets trashed. People totally disregard the few rules posted. and simply don't pay the suggested donation. It's one of the only hostels on the AT that doesn't have a resident caretaker. I'm not saying all thru-hikers are this way but quite a few are. Enough for the church to notice.
Wolf, thanks for that info. I know all of us left more than what was asked for plus we did some cleaning.
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 13:18
Wolf, thanks for that info. I know all of us left more than what was asked for plus we did some cleaning.
that's usually the case with section hikers who drive here and use the hostel. and there are thru-hikers that go above and beyond also
Trillium
10-11-2007, 13:51
i would say a blessing. just about every business benefits.
There is an annual 3-day Homecoming event in our town. Businesses are solicited for donations toward the additional OT required for the event; they are recognized in the program and on banners/signs. Does Damascus do this or have they considered it?
max patch
10-11-2007, 13:58
There are plenty of free, and legal, places to camp (both car and tent camping) within a five-mile radius of Damascus. I could never understand why people all want to camp in a fenced-in, industry-polluted site. I guess the herd will pay $5 for that 'privilege' now.
Maybe the "herd" has figgered out that it makes more sense to drive to Damascus once and leave your car parked for the weekend than it is to park 5miles away and drive to and from Damasus every day. Cheaper too.
And on a personal note, I camped down by the water one year. Went to dinner and when I came back my tent was stolen. Damascus police said it happened "all the time".
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 14:25
Actually, Warren the "herd" likes to camp on the main town site for three reasons:
1. It's convenient to downtown
2. There are special events there: Contests, dinners, etc., as well as the
vendors, repair people, etc.
3. Most people want to camp with lots of their friends
Folks who don't want these benefits, or those without lots of friends, are welcome to camp elsewhere. :D
warren doyle
10-11-2007, 14:47
Max Patch post #36 Maybe the "herd" has figgered out that it makes more sense to drive to Damascus once and leave your car parked for the weekend than it is to park 5miles away and drive to and from Damasus every day. Cheaper too.
Cheaper? Let's figure this out. If what Lone Wolf says is true, than a driver/camper pays $15.
Someone who is camping 5 miles out of town probably will not be driving more than an additional 20 miles (based on a 2-3 day stay).
If gas is $3 a gallon and my car gets 35 mpg, then I'm spending only $2 on gas and even with wear and tear for the extra 20 miles, my expense will total $5, as opposed to $15. An objective $10 savings.
In addition to this method being cheaper, I have always found a convenient and free parking spot in town (much closer than the campground); I don't have a need for special events that may include noise, crowds, drunk and profane/vulgar behavior; I don't have a need for vendors or gear repair services(including Leki since I use a simple $1 used ski pole); and, it is always nice to see my friends (who usually are not the types that need to camp in the campground to have a good time at Trail Days).
Creek Dancer
10-11-2007, 14:51
Isn't the talent show a special event, the one that you enter? There is plenty of noise and crowds at that event. Some drunks too, as I recall.
The Solemates
10-11-2007, 14:54
I'd have to agree with Warren on this one. I wouldnt be paid to camp in the campground during Trail Days, much less pay to camp there. Its nasty, crowded, loud, and obnoxious. There are plenty of places to camp elsewhere (without having to drive into town). For instance, hike up the AT a little ways. Or hike up 58/91 or the Creeper a little ways. The town is bordered by forest service land. Just by walking a few miles, its easy to find spots and still abide by LNT principles.
With that said, I agree with the idea of charging a fare. I think it will be hard to enforce, and there will always be a large percentage that ignores and/or finds their way around it. But, it is perhaps a step in the right direction for the town's own benefit of trying mitigate the leftovers from the inconsiderate majority.
the goat
10-11-2007, 14:57
Cheaper? Let's figure this out. If what Lone Wolf says is true, than a driver/camper pays $15.
Someone who is camping 5 miles out of town probably will not be driving more than an additional 20 miles (based on a 2-3 day stay).
If gas is $3 a gallon and my car gets 35 mpg, then I'm spending only $2 on gas and even with wear and tear for the extra 20 miles, my expense will total $5, as opposed to $15. An objective $10 savings.
i've got no problem with giving 10 bucks, that i would've otherwise saved, to the town of damascus for their trouble.
is 10 bucks that big of a deal? i mean, the gathering costs 10 bucks, right?
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 14:57
With that said, I agree with the idea of charging a fare. I think it will be hard to enforce, and there will always be a large percentage that ignores and/or finds their way around it. But, it is perhaps a step in the right direction for the town's own benefit of trying mitigate the leftovers from the inconsiderate majority.
it should be easy to enforce. anyone who camps there will be given a wrist band. anyone found in the campground without one will be ejected
SGT Rock
10-11-2007, 14:59
Personally I do not like staying in that campground - too much always seems to be going on for my personal likes. I would rather camp somewhere else and drive in every day. Camping with friends, staying in a house (thanks LWolf ;)) or one year I actually slept in the vendor area and had a quiet time each time.
It is nice to go visit but I don't like staying around that many folks.
The Solemates
10-11-2007, 15:06
it should be easy to enforce. anyone who camps there will be given a wrist band. anyone found in the campground without one will be ejected
Ejected? I have my doubts.
or...Get your wristbands...$1. Any takers?
Jim Adams
10-11-2007, 15:19
they'll sneak in the back way
...they already live there!!!:D
geek
Jim Adams
10-11-2007, 15:41
Ejected? I have my doubts.
or...Get your wristbands...$1. Any takers?
I don't think that it would be easy to enforce. If you are not camping then you wouldn't have a wristband...they going to charge you $5 just to visit or go to the vendors? What if I didn't camp but I visited until daybreak?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind paying the town to help defray costs. I have only missed 2 TD's since 1990 and it is one of the highlights of my year but I think the camping fee would be difficult to enforce and it may also lead to a local farmer opening a camping area near town, providing transportation to and from town and charging $10 dollars / person for the weekend whether you had a car or not. It would not be very hard for him to show a profit yet the town would then make less and sustain less profit with the same expenses.
geek
I paid $10 for the Gathering this year, and it was worth the money. I will gladly pay $5 or $10 for Trail Days next year if required. Regardless of if I can get away with not paying. Unfortunately too many people don't think that way.
The Solemates
10-11-2007, 15:46
I don't think that it would be easy to enforce. If you are not camping then you wouldn't have a wristband...they going to charge you $5 just to visit or go to the vendors? What if I didn't camp but I visited until daybreak?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind paying the town to help defray costs. I have only missed 2 TD's since 1990 and it is one of the highlights of my year but I think the camping fee would be difficult to enforce and it may also lead to a local farmer opening a camping area near town, providing transportation to and from town and charging $10 dollars / person for the weekend whether you had a car or not. It would not be very hard for him to show a profit yet the town would then make less and sustain less profit with the same expenses.
geek
exactly.....
Lion King
10-11-2007, 15:49
I miss the trail days on the river, Pre-mill, gathering of about 1000 people tops...ah, the late 90's, year 2000...
Jim Adams
10-11-2007, 15:57
I miss the trail days on the river, Pre-mill, gathering of about 1000 people tops...ah, the late 90's, year 2000...
to quote the solemates....exactly!:cool:
geek
Johnny Swank
10-11-2007, 17:03
ditto - that was the deal.
Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 17:51
i would say a blessing. just about every business benefits.
L. Wolf, you're always saying hikers are cheap and don't spend money and don't mean diddly to local businesses, etc. Which is it? :D
I miss the trail days on the river, Pre-mill, gathering of about 1000 people tops...ah, the late 90's, year 2000...
Like the time I saw a naked guy stubling down Laurel ave. 'bout Midnight?? :D Yeah it was cooler when the crowd was right in town, but most of the old folks here don't see it that way. (Luckily not many were up to see naked guy, '98 I think?) There are still places in town to camp but you have to pay, and yes, they have port-a-johns. Beats walkin halfway to Shady at last call.
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:05
Tater:
Most of the folks at Trail Days arrive by car and are essentially on holiday.
These folks will spend a good bit of money in town.
Hikers that are actually on the Trail, tho, are notoriously tight-fisted, and many of them are essentially outraged to discover that stuff actually costs money.
A lot of businesses in Damascus make out well at Trail Days, but when Wolf characterizes hikers as "cheap", this is very often perfectly true.
Footslogger
10-11-2007, 18:08
I miss the trail days on the river, Pre-mill, gathering of about 1000 people tops...ah, the late 90's, year 2000...
=================================
Ahh ...the memories !! Remember the thermarest races ??
'Slogger
Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 18:11
Tater:
Most of the folks at Trail Days arrive by car and are essentially on holiday.
You mean they're pack-sniffers? Or are they hikers? Or neither?
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:15
Most of them are hikers who are not hiking at the moment who are on vacation.
Got it? :D
Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 18:40
No, I don't. When hikers hike they aren't on vacation? Why would they suddenly turn cheap when hiking.
I know some thru-hikers are cheap because they don't have a lot of money, but I saw plenty of thru-hikers spending good money all up the trail on B&Bs, restaurants, hotels, equipment, etc.
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 18:47
People who come to Trail Days weekend are generally working, Tater, or have some sort of support.
And their vacation is around 3 or 4 days in duration, not 185.
You might have been with a better class of hiker, but all too many are cheap.....they spend as little as possible on lodging or restaurant meals, they're constantly on the lookout for some sort of handout or discount; they demand work-for-stays at hostels; they tip poorly or not at all.
But funny thing....they always seem to have money for beer. :-?
Appalachian Tater
10-11-2007, 19:08
Oh, I just figured it all out and know exactly the sort of hiker you mean. :cool:
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 19:10
L. Wolf, you're always saying hikers are cheap and don't spend money and don't mean diddly to local businesses, etc. Which is it? :D
The MAJORITY of people attending Trail Days aren't thru-hikers. ex-thru-hikers, yes. they have jobs and $
Lone Wolf
10-11-2007, 19:12
No, I don't. When hikers hike they aren't on vacation? Why would they suddenly turn cheap when hiking.
I know some thru-hikers are cheap because they don't have a lot of money, but I saw plenty of thru-hikers spending good money all up the trail on B&Bs, restaurants, hotels, equipment, etc.
just shut the **** up.:rolleyes:
The Old Fhart
10-11-2007, 19:18
Warren Doyle-"There are plenty of free, and legal, places to camp (both car and tent camping) within a five-mile radius of Damascus. I could never understand why people all want to camp in a fenced-in, industry-polluted site. I guess the herd will pay $5 for that 'privilege' now."I always stay at a pay hostels in town where you need a key to enter but we have to make sure to lock the porch window because one well-known hiker has slipped in through the window late at night and slept on the couch to avoid spending $10.:eek:
Warren Doyle-"....I don't have a need for special events that may include noise, crowds,......."I guess contra dancing isn't a "special event" that involves crowds, noise.:D
SGT Rock
10-11-2007, 19:21
But funny thing....they always seem to have money for beer. :-?Or weed...
Jim Adams
10-11-2007, 19:22
People who come to Trail Days weekend are generally working, Tater, or have some sort of support.
And their vacation is around 3 or 4 days in duration, not 185.
You might have been with a better class of hiker, but all too many are cheap.....they spend as little as possible on lodging or restaurant meals, they're constantly on the lookout for some sort of handout or discount; they demand work-for-stays at hostels; they tip poorly or not at all.
But funny thing....they always seem to have money for beer. :-?
Jack,
Not upset...just pointing out that not all hikers are cheap but do plan ahead.
I do tend to find the best deal for the money at restaurants and lodging but that is just using common sense on a 6 month long trip. I do always look for discounted products while hiking but I also do so at home. I never look for handouts but if I'm in a sporting mood I certainly will yogi. The only place that I do work for stay is in the huts in the Whites...I pay whatever the going rate is everywhere else and don't skip-out on what I owe. I know the wages that most waiters and waitresses make because I was a kitchen manager at a tourist restuarant in an earlier life so I tend to over tip handsomely thank you.
BUT...finally the most important aspect of thru hiking...if you don't have enough loot in the budget for beer throughout the entire trail...why go!:D
geek
Jack Tarlin
10-11-2007, 19:22
Hey, I remember that one, O.F.!!
Right after the "break-in", someone taped a "Thou Shalt Not Steal!!" sign next to the window in case the night prowler came back for another siesta.
As I recall, someone stole the sign....... :D
I am staying at the Place now. There are only two of us there. We have the windows open and no stinky hiker smell. It would be nice if the church tore the place down to make room for a parking lot. The riff raff that show up for trail days will have to find somewhere else to abuse.. Why not charge $5.00 a night to camp for trail days. Most hikers pay that much for one tutty fruity beer.
Jester2000
10-11-2007, 21:21
This past TD was my first and I was amazed at the mess that was created. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to clean-up. I've got zero issues with the town recouping some of that expense.
I know that this has already been covered, but I've found that it's nice to take days off at the back end of TD, and I usually stay in the camping area on Sunday night. It's a mellow evening, and relaxing after all of the hullabaloo. And on Sunday afternoon and Monday morning, you can help clean up the camping area. Whenever I've left, it's been pristine. This also explains why I've ended up with so many camp chairs I haven't paid for and don't particularly want.
. . .Its nasty, crowded, loud, and obnoxious. There are plenty of places to camp elsewhere (without having to drive into town). For instance, hike up the AT a little ways. Or hike up 58/91 or the Creeper a little ways. The town is bordered by forest service land. Just by walking a few miles, its easy to find spots and still abide by LNT principles.
With that said, I agree with the idea of charging a fare. I think it will be hard to enforce, and there will always be a large percentage that ignores and/or finds their way around it. But, it is perhaps a step in the right direction for the town's own benefit of trying mitigate the leftovers from the inconsiderate majority.
I agree with the Solemates that if you want solitude and peace, the camping area is not for you. In fact, I'd recommend staying away from Trail Days entirely if that's your thing. There are some lovely spots all around the country that are just crammed full of peace and quiet. On the other hand, going to Trail Days and staying in the camping area and then complaining about noise and the lack of solitude is kind of silly.
I too agree that a fee isn't a terrible idea for those who drive, although I'd like to see it not apply to those walking in (this was my understanding of why the original fee was linked to parking). I know what Wolf will say regarding this, but I still feel this way; after all, we're the ones with jobs.
Regardless, at least it gives people something to piss and moan about.
Tennessee Viking
10-11-2007, 23:18
According to the county paper, the Damascus town council wants to charge $5 for each person that camps in the TD campground plus $10 to park inside next year. The council also suggested prohibiting camping on private property unless public restrooms are provided. HMMM. This will be interesting.
They just want to grab more money from the hikers. I remember Bear Tree Campground in Mt Rogers being a great little campground.
Just join the Kincora HardCore Crew. Free food and lodging/camping if you help out on the trail project. Usually lodging and camping at Kincora goes quick. Others camp out on the trail, Bramaer Castle, and Dennis Cove campground.
Five dollars sounds very reasonable.
Just because you're a hiker, doesn't entitle you to a thing. If you can't afford to pay your way, stay home, work, and save until you can. Without the cash to fund your entire trip you’re just a hobo.
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 04:11
They just want to grab more money from the hikers. I remember Bear Tree Campground in Mt Rogers being a great little campground.
Just join the Kincora HardCore Crew. Free food and lodging/camping if you help out on the trail project. Usually lodging and camping at Kincora goes quick. Others camp out on the trail, Bramaer Castle, and Dennis Cove campground.
who wants to grab MORE $$ from hikers? they pay s**t as it is. who do you think pays for the shuttle buses, extra police, roll-off dumpsters, port-a-johns, water and electricity, etc.? $5 is nothing. another sniveling packsniffer.:rolleyes: i bet guys like you feel hostels like The Place should be free cuz you're a special hiker. by the way, Bear Tree Campground is no where near Mt. Rogers and they charge a lot MORE than Trail Days. And "just join the Kincora HardCore Crew. Free food and lodging'? who do you think pays for all the food? i remember one year i gave a $225 check to Bob for food and other expenses. Billville matched it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-12-2007, 04:54
$5 sounds quite reasonable for camping though I question the wisdom of making an ordinance about what people do with their property.
As several have noted, other options exist for those who feel paying this sum is not fair or who have problems with camping in an area that has a checkered past.
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 07:25
I too agree that a fee isn't a terrible idea for those who drive, although I'd like to see it not apply to those walking in (this was my understanding of why the original fee was linked to parking). I know what Wolf will say regarding this, but I still feel this way; after all, we're the ones with jobs.
hikers that walk in use the porta-a-johns, hot showers, shuttle buses, etc. why should they get this for free? $5 is nothing compared to what they'll spend on beer, cigarettes and dope. i really loathe hikers sometimes.
they'll sneak in the back way
I'll have to agree with that, they will always be present at this event. Besides TD's is getting way big. From what I see the town really wants to make the event the biggest happening for the town. And in a way I agree with their ideology. TD's brings in a lot of money for the local merchants. The majority of those who come here are not riff raff.
I'm sure there are people in Damascus who wouldn't be all busted up if the Place closed altogether.
And there are days when I can't say I'd blame them, either.
The truth be known, I don't think the Methodist church would be all busted up if the Place closed down either. But at the same time I have witnessed a different atmosphere about the Place here recently when I have did my walk throughs. I think Tom and Lone Wolf are doing a good job of moving people along this year and I predict that there will be a whole new face to the Place come TD's in '08. I think the days of screwing the Place around are on the way out or it will have to shut down.
Whadda ya mean I gotta pay :eek: Ima thru hiker! ;)
There are plenty of free, and legal, places to camp (both car and tent camping) within a five-mile radius of Damascus. I could never understand why people all want to camp in a fenced-in, industry-polluted site. I guess the herd will pay $5 for that 'privilege' now.
From what I understand this was the towns choice on moving all of the camping out to here, besides that area has been cleaned up pretty good.
There is an annual 3-day Homecoming event in our town. Businesses are solicited for donations toward the additional OT required for the event; they are recognized in the program and on banners/signs. Does Damascus do this or have they considered it?
yes, in a way. i have heard on more than one occasion praises for the people who make this event possible from those who come here.
I don't think that it would be easy to enforce. If you are not camping then you wouldn't have a wristband...they going to charge you $5 just to visit or go to the vendors? What if I didn't camp but I visited until daybreak?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind paying the town to help defray costs. I have only missed 2 TD's since 1990 and it is one of the highlights of my year but I think the camping fee would be difficult to enforce and it may also lead to a local farmer opening a camping area near town, providing transportation to and from town and charging $10 dollars / person for the weekend whether you had a car or not. It would not be very hard for him to show a profit yet the town would then make less and sustain less profit with the same expenses.
geek
the vendors are in another location.......
I miss the trail days on the river, Pre-mill, gathering of about 1000 people tops...ah, the late 90's, year 2000...
and 2001..........
People who come to Trail Days weekend are generally working, Tater, or have some sort of support.
And their vacation is around 3 or 4 days in duration, not 185.
You might have been with a better class of hiker, but all too many are cheap.....they spend as little as possible on lodging or restaurant meals, they're constantly on the lookout for some sort of handout or discount; they demand work-for-stays at hostels; they tip poorly or not at all.
But funny thing....they always seem to have money for beer. :-?
Well I'll tell you right now that the group of southbounders that are coming through right now aren't cheap. Come to think of it southbounders on a whole are a good lot..........
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 08:03
the vendors are in another location.......
he's talking about the gear reps.
They just want to grab more money from the hikers. I remember Bear Tree Campground in Mt Rogers being a great little campground.
Just join the Kincora HardCore Crew. Free food and lodging/camping if you help out on the trail project. Usually lodging and camping at Kincora goes quick. Others camp out on the trail, Bramaer Castle, and Dennis Cove campground.
You ain't one of them type that come in here for TD's and get all the hand outs are ya?
Whadda ya mean I gotta pay :eek: Ima thru hiker! ;)
and your special too! special education, special olympics, special child and your doing a service to man kind as well by being a thru-hiker! :D
the goat
10-12-2007, 09:06
From what I understand this was the towns choice on moving all of the camping out to here, besides that area has been cleaned up pretty good.
must
yes, in a way. i have heard on more than one occasion praises for the people who make this event possible from those who come here.
learn
the vendors are in another location.......
to
and 2001..........
use
Well I'll tell you right now that the group of southbounders that are coming through right now aren't cheap. Come to think of it southbounders on a whole are a good lot..........
the
You ain't one of them type that come in here for TD's and get all the hand outs are ya?
multi-quote
and your special too! special education, special olympics, special child and your doing a service to man kind as well by being a thru-hiker! :D
feature
Here's another factor to be considered when discussing Trail Days 2008 and the campground. It's possible we will need to move everything up the creek, literally. Here's a .pdf file showing the layout of the ballfields which will be built: http://www.traildays.info/ballfields.pdf
(If anyone has a program to reduce the size of this file or convert it to a .jpg I would be appreciative.)
Our first Trail Days committee meeting is this Monday, October 15, at Town Hall in Damascus, 7:30. If you're in the area come by. Last year only about twelve volunteers worked on Trail Days, and we need more help.
In addition to the campground, there will be other changes, hopefully improvements, in the way some things are run. We are quite honestly trying to reduce the number of local drunks in the campground. That's been the source of most of the problems in the past. The $5 fee is a step in that direction. And there will be a difference in the way the local police are involved, which is a reference to our interesting recent experience here.
We will also announce on whiteblaze a contest for a theme for this year, followed by a contest for a logo. This will be after the meeting Monday. We will also invite volunteers to come in a week early to help set up everything.
The campground was remarkably clean after everyone left last year. Jester, you missed several camp chairs, which are now being enjoyed by local residents, including myself.
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 09:48
We are quite honestly trying to reduce the number of local drunks in the campground.
c'mon now. ease up on the local folks. there are PLENTY of drunk, stumbling, puking hikers on any given night at the campground. what are you gonna do to reduce those numbers? :cool:
Creek Dancer
10-12-2007, 09:51
How about no drinking in public?
Lone Wolf
10-12-2007, 09:55
How about no drinking in public?
theoretically you're not suppose to drink out of an open container of alcohol in the campground but after dark that rule goes out the window. the place is a friggin zoo after midnight.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-12-2007, 10:00
Local, perhaps the fees collected from campers could be used to construct some permanent toilet facilities to serve the multipurpose area the rest of the year and the patrons of TD during that weekend. We come to your town every year and enjoy your hospitality - it is fitting that we should leave something behind that helps the community.
Another idea would be a small multipurpose building that could serve as the command post for police / first aid workers during TD and as a community meeting place or fellowship hall the rest of the year.
Sounds like an event in need of scaling back.
Local end of season pig roast here turned into a monstrosity.
Local, perhaps the fees collected from campers could be used to construct some permanent toilet facilities to serve the multipurpose area the rest of the year and the patrons of TD during that weekend. We come to your town every year and enjoy your hospitality - it is fitting that we should leave something behind that helps the community.
Another idea would be a small multipurpose building that could serve as the command post for police / first aid workers during TD and as a community meeting place or fellowship hall the rest of the year.
Great response as usual, Dino!
The Solemates
10-12-2007, 10:24
On the other hand, going to Trail Days and staying in the camping area and then complaining about noise and the lack of solitude is kind of silly.
that was precisely my point...you just put it a little more eloquently. :)
I'd gladly pay a lousy 5 bucks to the town to camp there. Hard to believe some people on here are already looking for ways to get around paying an extrememly reasonable and needed fee. I can just picture him now getting all turned on at the discovery of having one more place to steal from. absolutely dumbfounding.
And to the suggestion of camping far away and driving in, that would end up being disastrous. Traffic could end up looking like Gatlinburg..... OY!
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:04
Traffic already sucks at Trail Days. The best COA is to drive in and park somewhere for the rest of the day and walk around town.
Alligator
10-12-2007, 12:09
Traffic already sucks at Trail Days. The best COA is to drive in and park somewhere for the rest of the day and walk around town.Or bring a bike. Then it's not a bad ride at all if you want to stay out further.
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:09
That would be a good solution. I hope to get a job around here where I can bike to work
The Old Fhart
10-12-2007, 12:11
Or take the shuttles around town that run all day.
Cannibal
10-12-2007, 13:17
The only time I walked more than 200 yards was when I was in a group. When I walked by myself somebody always stopped and offered to give me a ride. The $15 to park all weekend was a breeze; I pay more than that to park one night at the airport!
Local, perhaps the fees collected from campers could be used to construct some permanent toilet facilities to serve the multipurpose area the rest of the year and the patrons of TD during that weekend. We come to your town every year and enjoy your hospitality - it is fitting that we should leave something behind that helps the community.
Another idea would be a small multipurpose building that could serve as the command post for police / first aid workers during TD and as a community meeting place or fellowship hall the rest of the year.
Very good suggestion. We're going to wait to see what the ballfields can offer in terms of bathrooms, other facilities, and what we can use there. This is in the county budget, which pleases us. We are assured we can use these facilities but agreements can get modified. I don't think a multi-purpose building is included and that would be a great addition.
c'mon now. ease up on the local folks. there are PLENTY of drunk, stumbling, puking hikers on any given night at the campground. what are you gonna do to reduce those numbers? :cool:
The hiking community, as you well know, is usually self-regulating. (Didn't someone refer to you as an "enforcer" once on whiteblaze?) Some of the local thugs look at this as an opportunity to get drunk, steal stuff, generally raise hell, and then walk home. We'll be asking people to be more prompt in reporting someone who is obviously staking out a campground. In two instances stuff was stolen and later someone said "Oh, I saw this guy walking around looking at packs, but didn't say anything." The campground will never be a perfect environment of peace, love, and tie dye, but at least we can use what we've learned in the past to prevent some of the problems in the future.
must
learn
to
use
the
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feature
i'm incompitent..........
must
learn
to
use
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feature
Traffic already sucks at Trail Days. The best COA is to drive in and park somewhere for the rest of the day and walk around town.
or take the free shuttle.............
end multi purpose quote unquote.........
There are plenty of free, and legal, places to camp (both car and tent camping) within a five-mile radius of Damascus. I could never understand why people all want to camp in a fenced-in, industry-polluted site. I guess the herd will pay $5 for that 'privilege' now.
Ummm.. because it's fun to be with the whole gang in one place? Because if you want to drink adult beverages, even in moderation, you don't want to drive? Because it's just danged convenient?
However, I was tempted to cross the stream behind the campsite and pitch a tent on the hilltop behind it. :rolleyes:
Since I have a loose schedule for my thru hike next year, I would be willing to help set up if I get to Damascus a little early. I figure if I get there around a week before TD, or the ride I get puts me there early I would be happy to help out. Would ya'll even need any help setting up, or is there not that much to do?
They just want to grab more money from the hikers. I remember Bear Tree Campground in Mt Rogers being a great little campground.
Just join the Kincora HardCore Crew. Free food and lodging/camping if you help out on the trail project. Usually lodging and camping at Kincora goes quick. Others camp out on the trail, Bramaer Castle, and Dennis Cove campground.
Why don't you grow up and get a life. Maybe you should grab a pack and hike the trail sometime.. Stop your whinning and grow up.
What exactly are the dates for TD '08?
Why not give Trail Days back the the hikers instead of vendors selling a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with hiking the trail. Back in the good old days before Backpacker moved in and all the Reps that thought that we needed them, it was a good time on the river (remember the parking lot wars), not to mention the soup nazi trying to give away watered down ramen soup. Now it's MONEY, MONEY, MONEY... I am not going into the toxic waste dump to camp but i might camp in somebodys yard. What is $5.00 for a weekend of partying and having fun. A coffee at the local coffee place averages $4.00. So $5.00 for Trail Days is a small price to pay to camp in a chemical waste dump. Just think, You may have some kids with two heads. Just think of all the money you can make from the circus.
The $5 camping fee isn't unreasonable. Charging singularly would be difficult but, it wouldn't be all that hard to charge $5 per tent in addition to the $10 parking fee, at least in the camping area.
Since I have a loose schedule for my thru hike next year, I would be willing to help set up if I get to Damascus a little early. I figure if I get there around a week before TD, or the ride I get puts me there early I would be happy to help out. Would ya'll even need any help setting up, or is there not that much to do?
Last year for the first time we opened the campground a week early for volunteers, and this was highly successful. We'll do it again this year. There's lots of work, including cutting and moving wood for the bonfire, clearing out campsites, and this year probably moving the entire campground. Watch the Trail Days website (http://www.traildays.info/)for information, and thanks for offering to help.
What exactly are the dates for TD '08?
May 16, 17, 18 2008. http://www.traildays.info/
.................... So $5.00 for Trail Days is a small price to pay to camp in a chemical waste dump. Just think, You may have some kids with two heads. Just think of all the money you can make from the circus.
Hey, Pirate, the ballfields are being built on the waste dump, and the campground will move up the creek to an unaffected area. So most of the two-headed kids will be born locally.
Lone Wolf
10-13-2007, 07:26
Hey, Pirate, the ballfields are being built on the waste dump, and the campground will move up the creek to an unaffected area. So most of the two-headed kids will be born locally.
actually the former waste site is below where the bingo hall is. nobody camps in that area
Jim Adams
10-13-2007, 10:43
Hey, Pirate, the ballfields are being built on the waste dump, and the campground will move up the creek to an unaffected area. So most of the two-headed kids will be born locally.
So...will you need nine players on the team or 4 1/2?:banana
geek
max patch
10-13-2007, 11:27
So...will you need nine players on the team or 4 1/2?:banana
geek
either 5 or 10 if you talking about a candy azz american league team :)
Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 11:35
Speaking of the Bingo Hall, I have a question for Local or Wolf:
Last time I was down there, there was a big sign out front of the building that said "Bingo Training Center".
What the hell's up with that?
Is this where every little old blue haired lady in rural Virginia learns how to chainsmoke and cuss?
We don't have Bingo training centers in this part of the world, which is maybe why bingo doesn't seem to be so big in Northern New England.
But with proper training, I'm sure the local biddies around here would have a more rewarding bingo experience.
It's a competitive world out there and I wouldn't want New Hampshire to fall behind.
Footslogger
10-13-2007, 11:41
[quote=Jack Tarlin;425022]
We don't have Bingo training centers in this part of the world, which is maybe why bingo doesn't seem to be so big in Northern New England.
===================================
We don't have actual "training centers" out here either ...but they do take Bingo pretty seriously at some of the churches. Never have sat in on a game but I hear tell that people bring their sidearms and set them on the table right next to their Bingo card. Bingo runs VERY smoothly out here ...
'Slogger
Speaking of the Bingo Hall, I have a question for Local or Wolf:
Last time I was down there, there was a big sign out front of the building that said "Bingo Training Center".
What the hell's up with that?
Is this where every little old blue haired lady in rural Virginia learns how to chainsmoke and cuss?
We don't have Bingo training centers in this part of the world, which is maybe why bingo doesn't seem to be so big in Northern New England.
But with proper training, I'm sure the local biddies around here would have a more rewarding bingo experience.
It's a competitive world out there and I wouldn't want New Hampshire to fall behind.
Jack, bingo is a complicated and intricate mental and physical event, and substantial training is required if one is to seriously complete. I refer you to a "Bingo rules" website: http://www.ildado.com/bingo_rules.html
Here's an excerpt: "Basically, players buy cards with numbers on them in a 5 x 5 grid corresponding to the five letters in the word B-I-N-G-O. Numbers such as B-2 or 0-68 are then drawn at random (out of a possible 75 in American Bingo, and 90 in British and Australian Bingo) until one player completes a 'Bingo' pattern, such as a line with five numbers in a vertical, horizontal or diagonal row on one of their cards and wins the prize."
Trainees here are able to compete worldwide. I'm told that New Englanders are unable to grasp bingo concepts without extensive training, due to the effect maple syrup has on brain synapses. I therefore recommend you attend a few sessions here and consider setting up your own Bingo Training Center.
In reference to your remarks on "cussing and chainsmoking," Virginians do not do that. As home of the earliest European settlement on this continent (1607, much earlier than those poser wannabes at Plymouth Rock) we have eliminated this unseemly behavior.
Jack Tarlin
10-13-2007, 13:20
Um, Local, it appears you've been studying history under Wookie or Hopeful.
Jamestown was the oldest ENGLISH settlement in the New World, not the oldest European.
The Spaniards were settling in at St. Augustine in 1565, and in numerous other places years before Jamestown was established.
But your bingo knowledge seems fairly trustworthy. :D
Uncle Silly
10-13-2007, 17:52
Jamestown was the oldest ENGLISH settlement in the New World, not the oldest European.
The Spaniards were settling in at St. Augustine in 1565, and in numerous other places years before Jamestown was established.
Actually, Jack, Jamestown was the first PERMANENT English settlement in the New World. The Roanoke colony in NC was the first English settlement, started in 1585, but it didn't last. The first English child born in the New World was born to the Roanoke colony: Virginia Dare, in 1587.
Hey, Pirate, the ballfields are being built on the waste dump, and the campground will move up the creek to an unaffected area. So most of the two-headed kids will be born locally.
How about those trucks that were suspose to take the toxic waste to some undiscloded dump site elsewere but instead showed back up at the toxic waste dump in Damascus 10 minutes after they had left, just to dump to toxic waste back into the camp site. Can't beat technolgy. Hope those steriods ball players can come in use here.
Speaking of the Bingo Hall, I have a question for Local or Wolf:
Last time I was down there, there was a big sign out front of the building that said "Bingo Training Center".
What the hell's up with that?
Is this where every little old blue haired lady in rural Virginia learns how to chainsmoke and cuss?
We don't have Bingo training centers in this part of the world, which is maybe why bingo doesn't seem to be so big in Northern New England.
But with proper training, I'm sure the local biddies around here would have a more rewarding bingo experience.
It's a competitive world out there and I wouldn't want New Hampshire to fall behind.
Hey Jack, just signed up for my masters bingo college course. I am allowed to call bingo games in every shelter between Georgia and Maine.
Um, Local, it appears you've been studying history under Wookie or Hopeful.
Jamestown was the oldest ENGLISH settlement in the New World, not the oldest European.
The Spaniards were settling in at St. Augustine in 1565, and in numerous other places years before Jamestown was established.
But your bingo knowledge seems fairly trustworthy. :D
In the words of Richard Nixon, I misspoke myself. You are right that "English" is the correct word. However, the Spanish were just visitors who came in, destroyed a few empires, and left our part of the world. The Roanoke Islanders came in earlier than the Jamestownians but mysteriously wandered off into the wilderness, possibly hooked up with a lost group of Turkish explorers, and became the Melungeons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon). (I've consulted with Wookie and Hopeful on this.) After that the settlers arrived at Plymouth Rock and brought in a good public relations team who dreamed up the concept of Thanksgiving, which is associated in many minds with the first settlement of this country. Virginians, of course, are not at all resentful of this usurpation by those late-arrivers. Not at all.
I'm not sure what this has to do with Trail Days, but I'm sure it's relevant if you live in some alternate universe. Like Damascus.
Why not give Trail Days back the the hikers instead of vendors selling a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with hiking the trail. Now it's MONEY, MONEY, MONEY... I am not going into the toxic waste dump to camp but i might camp in somebodys yard. What is $5.00 for a weekend of partying and having fun. A coffee at the local coffee place averages $4.00. So $5.00 for Trail Days is a small price to pay to camp in a chemical waste dump. Just think, You may have some kids with two heads. Just think of all the money you can make from the circus.
Hahahaha!:D What a visual..........
The thing is is that this event has become the circus that it is and it brings much needed monewy into the community. there are alot of people who come here to bike the Creeper Trail and enjoy other types of outdoor activities during that time period that enjoy this event as well. And then there are families from the local surrounding area that come over for all the fun as well. Those vendors that don't cater to the hiking community cater to those who have needs of another sort.
I don't see TD's ever being what it was in the beginning again. But what I foresee is that it becomes more entertaining. We may even see some big band names in here eventually.
You ever go to a biker run, or even a mud truck run. Some of the vendors that are set up at those events are not all about the main theme. back in my old bike run days I went to outlaw bike runs where I have witnessed vendors sellin produce, baby clothes, music and so on...........
Just got word that Allyn Morton aka "Fix It Man" will not be coming to Trail Days 2008. He regrets doing so but the actions of the head of the Trail Days Committee and some of the Damascus Town Council led him to this decision.
After 21 years of service, we will sure miss him.
Pirate, you're right in that Allyn will be missed at the campground, but he will be setting up shop in town, probably at MRO or Sundog, and will provide the same free services. I expect more representatives will do the same when they get hit with the new fee.
As to the Trail Days committee, I withdraw any prior invitation made to members of whiteblaze.net to attend this meeting. It is dysfunctional as presently operated, and would be a waste of your time. We're down to about three volunteers, and down to two when I resign from the committee. Trail Days will still happen, of course, primarily due to the energy of the hiking community. It will happen in spite of the arbitrary decisions being made at the so-called committee meeting. When the committe is reconstituted several of us will rejoin and again volunteer our time.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2007, 17:15
Geez, Local, I hope very much you re-consider and stay on the Committee.
You are a voice of reason here on WB, and presumably would perform the same service on the Trail Days committee.
Jack, thanks for your kind words. What we are trying to do is to involve more hikers on the Trail Days committee, but with the current town council member who is in charge of this event (because he is head of parks and recreation) there is not much hope of hikers or anyone else being heard. Several of us have tried to get him to be more open to discussion, but he gets his mind made up before the meetings and there is little discussion. I was promised a few things: a budget for Trail Days I could publish on the website, a "description of work" so we could put out bids for the work to be done on the new campground instead of just giving it to someone's buddy, and a prior discussion with reps before we slapped fees on them. None of this has happened, which is one reason Allyn has left the committee.
Look me up next time you're in town and I'll buy you a brew at Dot's or a double-thin latte at Mojoe's. I'm not sure which would be your preference.
It is about time to boycott Trail Days in Damascus and move somewhere else. Any suggestions. Getteysburg, Pa looks interesting. Or the Cranbeery bog in Shady Valley just out side of Damascus.
It is about time to boycott Trail Days in Damascus and move somewhere else. Any suggestions. Getteysburg, Pa looks interesting. Or the Cranbeery bog in Shady Valley just out side of Damascus.
Pirate, calm thyself. Damascus is by far the best place to have Trail Days. It's just that this year, as you saw in person, a couple of local control freaks have taken over the planning and excluded hikers and volunteers. There is an effort going on here to change this situation.
LOL... Between boycotting MRO and Trail Days y'all may as well just boycott Damacus!
Let's have Trail Days at Johnny Blevins house. That way he can get all the money. Why split it with other agencies.
Lone Wolf
10-26-2007, 23:25
Pirate, calm thyself. Damascus is by far the best place to have Trail Days. It's just that this year, as you saw in person, a couple of local control freaks have taken over the planning and excluded hikers and volunteers. There is an effort going on here to change this situation.
no, it's not. control by local politicians is by design. big $$$ is involved now.
sweetpeastu
10-26-2007, 23:27
L. Wolf, you need to take over the town. I will move to Damascus so I can vote for you for some position in the local government! Vote for L. Wolf!!!!!!!
Lone Wolf
10-26-2007, 23:30
L. Wolf, you need to take over the town. I will move to Damascus so I can vote for you for some position in the local government! Vote for L. Wolf!!!!!!!
ok then! i have 1 in my corner so far. :)
OregonHiker
10-26-2007, 23:40
However, I was tempted to cross the stream behind the campsite and pitch a tent on the hilltop behind it. :rolleyes:
Is it fordable or do you need a canoe ferry?:D
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-26-2007, 23:42
Let's have Trail Days at Johnny Blevins house. That way he can get all the money. Why split it with other agencies.Map of new trail days location and restroom facilities (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/TrailDaysmapspoof.jpg)
Lone Wolf
10-26-2007, 23:49
Map of new trail days location and restroom facilities (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/TrailDaysmapspoof.jpg)
that's good s**t right there! :)
Blue Jay
10-27-2007, 08:33
It is about time to boycott Trail Days in Damascus and move somewhere else. Any suggestions. Getteysburg, Pa looks interesting. Or the Cranbeery bog in Shady Valley just out side of Damascus.
There already is a good alternative. The Long Trail Festival in Rutland Vermont, late August.
wrightsphoto
10-27-2007, 08:54
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
Lone Wolf
10-27-2007, 09:04
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
it hasn't been "like it used to be" for the past 10 years or so. trail days is just a party.
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
The good parts of Trail Days will be like always. What is in debate now is the profit-making from manufacturer's representatives and others, and the control of the direction of Trail Days by a couple of people. Many of us here who are frustrated now will no doubt get more involved as the event gets closer. However, I will be working on L. Wolf's town council campaign and may not have as much time as before. Hum, campaign slogans.... "Put a Wolf in the henhouse?" Maybe.
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
Go there with an open mind. You might enjoy yourself. Lotsa good folks. Just gotta pick the right spots. Me? I stay away from the campground and fire, 'cause that's not my scene.
Cookerhiker
10-27-2007, 09:10
The good parts of Trail Days will be like always. What is in debate now is the profit-making from manufacturer's representatives and others, and the control of the direction of Trail Days by a couple of people. Many of us here who are frustrated now will no doubt get more involved as the event gets closer. However, I will be working on L. Wolf's town council campaign and may not have as much time as before. Hum, campaign slogans.... "Put a Wolf in the henhouse?" Maybe.
Wolf an elected official? Nothing like a politically-incorrect politician. - we need more of them.
And of course, this is a mere stepping stone. Wolf, are you concerned about your electronic paper trail hurting you when you run for Congress?:D
Lone Wolf
10-27-2007, 09:12
Wolf an elected official? Nothing like a politically-incorrect politician. - we need more of them.
And of course, this is a mere stepping stone. Wolf, are you concerned about your electronic paper trail hurting you when you run for Congress?:D
f *** no!!!
Rick Boucher doesn't have anything to worry about. BTW, Congressman Boucher is a solid supporter of trails. In fact, he was married on the Creeper Trail!
Lone Wolf
10-27-2007, 09:26
What is in debate now is the profit-making from manufacturer's representatives and others
in defense of the gear reps at the campground, they don't sell ANYTHING. they are there to make repairs on gear and give out free stuff. charging them $250 each to be there is not cool. they make no profit on anything
Map of new trail days location and restroom facilities (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/TrailDaysmapspoof.jpg)
The place looks good to me. Going out there now to put up my tent.
in defense of the gear reps at the campground, they don't sell ANYTHING. they are there to make repairs on gear and give out free stuff. charging them $250 each to be there is not cool. they make no profit on anything
Actually, IMO brand exposure in front of this group is a steal at $250.
Actually, IMO brand exposure in front of this group is a steal at $250.
True, but that is probably $250 more than some cottage companys' advertising budget.
The Scribe
10-27-2007, 10:01
According to the county paper, the Damascus town council wants to charge $5 for each person that camps in the TD campground plus $10 to park inside next year. The council also suggested prohibiting camping on private property unless public restrooms are provided. HMMM. This will be interesting.
No issues with this. When I think about camping for four days and all I paid was the what, $15 parking fee or whatever it was? I'd pay to camp and other than emptying the dumpster and the portapotties, I left no trace.
Scribe
The Scribe
10-27-2007, 10:06
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
Trail Days will be what you make it. Go and enjoy. I always try to be SUPER respectful of the locals and I get it in return. Damascus is a great place with great people.
Scribe
True, but that is probably $250 more than some cottage companys' advertising budget.
If that's the case, those businesses are destined for failure. Just my opinion. Gotta have a good business plan, and no solid business plan has no marketing budget.
Speaking of gear reps , how's Pat from Leki, or was it Therarest doing? I heard he had a heart attack in the summer of '06. Was he there this past TD's?
The Scribe
10-27-2007, 10:42
I'd gladly pay a lousy 5 bucks to the town to camp there. Hard to believe some people on here are already looking for ways to get around paying an extrememly reasonable and needed fee. I can just picture him now getting all turned on at the discovery of having one more place to steal from. absolutely dumbfounding.
And to the suggestion of camping far away and driving in, that would end up being disastrous. Traffic could end up looking like Gatlinburg..... OY!
The more I read this thread the more ridiculous it has become. People, the town is talking about charging $5 to camp. If you stay four nights like we usually do (Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun), that is $1.25 a night!!!!
For hikers, how much did it cost you to get to Damascus? Gear purchased, transporation to Springer, money spent on the trail, etc. For those of us unfortunate enough to have to work and travel just for TDs, how much does it cost for you to get there? And you want to find a way to weasel out of $5?????
At $3 a gallon for gas, it costs about $275 for fuel for the trip for us. I find it amazing that people are looking for ways to get around a $5 fee to VOLUNTARILY do something.
As far as camping out of town, if that's your preference, so be it. I personally like to park the truck and not touch it for 3-4 days. I can keep stuff in it when it's raining and I don't contribute to parking and traffic issues while I am there. I like to be able to walk anywhere in town at any time, and although I didn't appreciate the mountain of empty beer cans piled on the side of my tent when I don't drink beer, or the stoned chick next to my tent in the middle of the night exclaiming over and over again that she KNOWS the stray dog that followed her to the campsite, I deal with it.
Look at it this way. That $5 fee, even if it doesn't keep any riff-raff away, MIGHT provide enough money for more supervision. And that might change the experience for the better.
I only know Damsacus from Trail Days. Never been there outside of that. They are the hosts. They set the rules. They deserve our respect and compliance. And I guess if you don't like that, you don't have to go.
Can someone send a BAJA burrito to me? I have broadband so it shouldn't get too smooshed in the process. :)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-27-2007, 11:54
I don't see this as being so much about the increased charges for camping and parking, but about a change in the primary focus of the event from being about the trail & hiker appreciation (the reason TD was started) to being a way to generate revenue for the town.
I've been disappointed in the vendor area in the town park the past couple of years because it was about half arts and crafts vendors. It just didn't seem to be so much about showcasing hiker gear as about selling as many vendor spots as possible. If this is what Damascus wants, then that is what they should have.
The event has been put on pretty much by non-hikers and without hiker input (though Local has made a heroic effort to change this). It now seems that a local politico is trying to undo the hiker input and make the event about Damascus instead of about hiking the AT. If he succeeds, TD will become just another small-town arts & crafts fair because the hikers will attend gatherings where the trail - not the town - is the focus --- and the vendors will quit coming to TD and follow the hikers.
There are plenty of small towns near the AT that would likely love to get the influx of people and $$$ that TD generates and would be willing to work with the hikers to get it. If Damascus wants an arts & crafts festival instead of a hiker gathering, perhaps another location can be found for the sort of gathering TD used to be.
Interesting how hikers wax lyrical about wilderness and solitude... but can't resist a scene like Trail Days or a Ruck or Gathering... :D
Nightwalker
10-27-2007, 12:17
2008 will be my first trail days, I hate it's not going to be like it use to be....
I was getting excited about coming.
Everyone should go once. Most people get addicted.
Everyone should go once. Most people get addicted.
I enjoyed it -- but not enough to drive there from New England to do it again.
Nightwalker
10-27-2007, 12:46
I enjoyed it -- but not enough to drive there from New England to do it again.
Same here, and I'm only 3 hours away. Damascus is much nicer at other times of the year.
I go to hike, and to see Wolf, Gypsy, Wonder, Silly, TOW, Dutch Treat and Hummingbird. I probably forgot some names, but it's the only town that I go to hike AND see friends.
Interesting how hikers wax lyrical about wilderness and solitude... but can't resist a scene like Trail Days or a Ruck or Gathering... :D
Yup, I like my wilderness experiences to last 5-6 months, but leave a few weekends a year to attend TD, Rucks and Gatherings, to see old friends and have a few.
Flush2wice
10-27-2007, 15:38
Everyone should go once. Most people get addicted.
No body goes any more, it's too crowded.
eArThworm
10-27-2007, 17:35
...It's possible we will need to move everything up the creek, literally. Here's a .pdf file showing the layout of the ballfields which will be built: http://www.traildays.info/ballfields.pdf (If anyone has a program to reduce the size of this file or convert it to a .jpg I would be appreciative.)
As per request, .JPG posted in Gallery: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=19382&c=539
Impressive! Thanks for this. I appreciate your taking the time to convert this image, which I don't know how to do. I'll post the image on traildays.info sometime tomorrow. But right now there's acoustic music at Mojoe's. And probably some sort of music across the street at Dot's. We are highly cultured here in Damascus.
Impressive! Thanks for this. I appreciate your taking the time to convert this image, which I don't know how to do. I'll post the image on traildays.info sometime tomorrow. But right now there's acoustic music at Mojoe's. And probably some sort of music across the street at Dot's. We are highly cultured here in Damascus.
Local, you have the only music in town. Dots has the cowboy channel playing. Pot is in charge of the remote. Nothing is happening at the Old Mill, you are lucky to get a beer. If they have any food, it will be wings. Baja is open and we are baby sitting the little one. Gypsy is eating some kind of soup, black bean and corn.