View Full Version : If feeling depressed, take a walk in the woods
Regular exercise could help lift the cloud of major depression as effectively as an antidepressant, new research shows.
"A lot of people know from their own experience that when they exercise, they feel better," says James A. Blumenthal, a professor of psychology at Duke University and lead author of the study.
Blumenthal conducted a placebo-controlled clinical trial, the first time the gold standard of research has been used to compare exercise with antidepressants for treatment of major depression.
He sorted 202 patients into four groups. After 16 weeks, 47 percent of the people who took the antidepressant Zoloft improved . But some 45 percent of those who exercised in supervised groups improved, and 40 percent of those who exercised on their own improved, a statistically insignificant difference from the drug group result.
About 30 percent of those in the placebo group improved, a finding consistent with the placebo effect.
Exercise, Blumenthal speculates, might increase endorphin or serotonin levels, so-called feel-good brain chemicals.
The study was published in the September issue of the journal Psychosomatic Medicine.
Weary
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 11:43
How about if you feel mad all the time. I know I am looking forward to a nice long one to hopefully cure that.
saimyoji
10-12-2007, 11:47
How about if you feel mad all the time.
Bust up some wood. Just don't do it around any internegators. Feel free to mutter loudly to yourself.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 11:48
A friend of mine just told me about a very old man, who was asked how he stayed so healthy and so happily married for so long.
The man explained that he and his wife had decided as a couple that they would not fight. Discuss, maybe even argue to some extent, but not fight. He said, "So, when things got a little too hot, I'd go for a walk. We never fought, and over the years, I got a lot of fresh air!"
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 11:48
I have a chainsaw. I can screem as I cut with that thing.
saimyoji
10-12-2007, 11:50
I have a chainsaw. I can screem as I cut with that thing.
Well, thats cool and all, but doesn't give you the same satisfying sense of having destroyed something with your bare hands.
Alligator
10-12-2007, 11:50
How about if you feel mad all the time. I know I am looking forward to a nice long one to hopefully cure that.Logging on to WB a lot is a great cure for that. It works wonders for me.
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 11:54
Well, thats cool and all, but doesn't give you the same satisfying sense of having destroyed something with your bare hands.
I like shooting things.
Blowing up frogs with a firecracker stuck in their mouth, (especially deformed ones) is a great stress/depression/madness reliever. It's been about 40 years and I'm still doing fine. ;)
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 11:57
last time I blew something up it was a little bigger than a frog.
last time I blew something up it was a little bigger than a frog.
LOL... I can imagine. :eek:
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:02
How about if you feel mad all the time. I know I am looking forward to a nice long one to hopefully cure that.
Let's start with the fact that you "feel" mad, and not deal with the fact that most of us get angry because we have some combination of legitimate expectations that aren't being met and unrealistic expectations that we need to re-examine.
My theory is that some people are lap dogs and some people are like collies..."working dogs". Smart dogs from active breeds that don't get enough work are not happy dogs. Some dogs, though, are perfectly happy to just lie around all the time, even if the exercise would do them good. I think people like that. All of us benefit from exercise, but some of us need it to keep from getting into trouble!
I have twin boys, and my saying is that they are great at doing stuff, but as for what I tell them to "not do"....not so much. They need expectations to be stated in terms of what they need to DO. If they don't get enough exercise, they bicker and get defiant and all that kind of thing. Nobody can make them happy. Get them enough exercise, though, and they are as sweet as can be.
My impression is that you, Sgt. Rock, are what I call a "working dog"! Go with that! When you feel mad, go do something strenuous. Get a hit of endorphins, let your brain become sane again. Then deal with whatever it was that was the trigger: that is, whether you were being realistic in your expectations or not.
Footslogger
10-12-2007, 12:02
last time I blew something up it was a little bigger than a frog.
=====================================
...and I'll bet you didn't use a firecracker either !!
Just love the smell of napalm in the morning ...
Hooah !!
'Slogger
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:06
Yes, I am a working dog. The fast time I ever did my 2 mile run in I was ready to strangle someone.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:09
=====================================
...and I'll bet you didn't use a firecracker either !!
Just love the smell of napalm in the morning ...
Hooah !!
'Slogger
I know you're joking, but as for the sargeant, soldiers blow things up when they decide to, not when they "need" to.
You can't run a military on people who can't control their own destructive capacity, any more than you can run a military on people who don't have one.
All the guys I know in the military like stuff that blows things up, but they have a bit more self-control than they did when they were ten. (When we were kids, ten-year-olds could get their hands on M-80s and some serious cherry bombs, so we're not talking just firecrackers, either. :D )
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:11
Last thing I blew up took C4, det cord, and I used MDI shock tube.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:13
Yes, I am a working dog. The fast time I ever did my 2 mile run in I was ready to strangle someone.
Working dogs are higher maintenance, but I'd take them any day over a "rat on a ribbon".
Last thing I blew up took C4, det cord, and I used MDI shock tube.
So you see! Dreams do come true.
Footslogger
10-12-2007, 12:13
[quote=Brrrb Oregon;424421]I know you're joking, but as for the sargeant, soldiers blow things up when they decide to, not when they "need" to.
======================================
Not sure I understand your meaning there. As an old soldier myself I recall "needing" to blow things up quite often. But maybe that's just me.
'Slogger
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:15
[quote=Brrrb Oregon;424421]I know you're joking, but as for the sargeant, soldiers blow things up when they decide to, not when they "need" to.
======================================
Not sure I understand your meaning there. As an old soldier myself I recall "needing" to blow things up quite often. But maybe that's just me.
'Slogger
Yeah, well, a man has "needs", but that doesn't mean they are satisfied at the exact moment he feels the urge to indulge. If those "needs" weren't there in the first place, a great deal of the necessary would not happen. If you get my meaning. (I don't mean that you can expect a collie to play dead forever.)
Regular exercise could help lift the cloud of major depression as effectively as an antidepressant, new research shows.
It works for me, don't know if it's major depression but, a walk in the woods is always uplifting for me. Nature works wonders IMO
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:16
I take it back, the last thing I blew up I used thermite grenades and let it's own ammo do the rest of the work.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:18
I take it back, the last thing I blew up I used thermite grenades and let it's own ammo do the rest of the work.
Ooo, thermite reactions. I'm a chemist. There's nothing better than stuff that is chemically interesting AND blows up.
(BLEVYs....very destructive, almost always accidental, but I gotta love 'em.)
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:21
Ooo, thermite reactions. I'm a chemist. There's nothing better than stuff that is chemically interesting AND blows up.
(BLEVYs....very destructive, almost always accidental, but I gotta love 'em.)
Correction: BLEVE "Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion"
Ain't no grenade can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWjxrAhpBQk
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:21
Secondary explosions can be a cool thing unless it is something landing around you and then going off.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:24
Secondary explosions can be a cool thing unless it is something landing around you and then going off.
It's one of those "force of nature" kinds of cool.....tornados, lightening strikes, eruptions, that kind of thing. You don't exactly want it to happen, you certainly don't want it to happen where someone is going to be hurt or something valuable is going to be decimated, but you can't deny it is one of the most amazing things you've ever seen.
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:26
I agree. There is a rush out of seeing something comming apart like that in real life that a video does not capture.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 12:31
I agree. There is a rush out of seeing something comming apart like that in real life that a video does not capture.
That's why I'm thankful we have you in the service. A man ought to enjoy his vocation, especially if it involves self-sacrifice.
If there's nothing that actually needs destroying today, I hope you enjoy your run!
This would be a fun thread in which to participate, but, with the disconnects and sluggishness I'm experiencing, I couldn't and can't hope to keep up. I wrote what I thought was a hilarious post that would have served to draw woodsy into the thread, but I lost it. Oh, well. He knows a good thread when he sees one and showed up anyway.
It works for me, don't know if it's major depression but, a walk in the woods is always uplifting for me. Nature works wonders IMO
Thanks for addressing the topic of the thread. We were in danger of setting a modern White Blaze record for being off topic.
I don't get much therapeutic help from blowing things up, but I certainly do from a walk in the woods. Though the woods aren't absolutely necessary. Just splitting my winter's wood helps a lot.
Weary
I think Benton McKaye had similar visions of what Weary is talking about, treating the depressed/mentally ill with a "walk in the woods"
SGT Rock
10-12-2007, 12:57
I am volunteering for a dose of that.
Just a Hiker
10-12-2007, 13:00
It's raining cats and dogs here in Maine today, so it's pretty dreary and depressing. But seriously, I feel that the trail always keeps me sane. I have only been on the trail a total of 2 months this year, and it has been so hard on me mentally. It seems all I have done this year is travel from VA Hospital to VA Hospital trying to fix my crazy azz. I know this much, when I am not hiking, I am just another manic-depressive alcoholic.
Just Jim
It's raining cats and dogs here in Maine today, so it's pretty dreary and depressing. But seriously, I feel that the trail always keeps me sane. I have only been on the trail a total of 2 months this year, and it has been so hard on me mentally. It seems all I have done this year is travel from VA Hospital to VA Hospital trying to fix my crazy azz. I know this much, when I am not hiking, I am just another manic-depressive alcoholic.
Just Jim
You are ripe for one of Benton McKayes wilderness trail communities, except, they haven't been created yet. Hang in there Jim and don't let the dreary weather get you down, just look at the awesome colors out there:sun
Just a Hiker
10-12-2007, 13:16
You are ripe for one of Benton McKayes wilderness trail communities, except, they haven't been created yet. Hang in there Jim and don't let the dreary weather get you down, just look at the awesome colors out there:sun
Maybe there should be a "Hiker Psych Ward" somewhere! :D
Whenever I need to clear my head, I go for a hike.
There is something therapeutic about nature. One step a time, the worries seem to be sorted out. I can see how I must proceed and take it from there.
Does not mattter if it is 4 mos or 4 hours, at the end of my walks, I feel a mental burden is that much lighter.
Wendell Berry said it best IMO:
The Peace of Wild Things
When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 13:23
Maybe there should be a "Hiker Psych Ward" somewhere! :D
And the AT is what? :D
Some self-medicate with destructive things, some with the sublime. Who's gonna argue with the latter?
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 13:24
Thanks for addressing the topic of the thread. We were in danger of setting a modern White Blaze record for being off topic.
Guilt as charged....and yet, I feel so little shame.
(I will try to amend my ways.)
Just a Hiker
10-12-2007, 13:25
And the AT is what? :D
Some self-medicate with destructive things, some with the sublime. Who's gonna argue with the latter?
Good point, but the problem is that I ain't on it right now.....thats my point!:)
Footslogger
10-12-2007, 13:25
[quote=Mags;424490]Whenever I need to clear my head, I go for a hike.
There is something therapeutic about nature. One step a time, the worries seem to be sorted out. I can see how I must proceed and take it from there.
Does not mattter if it is 4 mos or 4 hours, at the end of my walks, I feel a mental burden is that much lighter.
================================
Amen, my friend !! Have personally "walked off" some pretty dark times over the years ...
'Slogger
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 13:27
Good point, but the problem is that I ain't on it right now.....thats my point!:)
A sidewalk isn't much, but it beats a strait jacket.
I hope I will live to see private money being directed toward supplemental protection for the A.T. corridor that involves environmentally friendly, sustainable small businesses that would pass if not from generation to generation within families then from generation to generation within the A.T. community. I'm thinking of life-promoting, invigorating, outdoor work or trail services that serve to support the A.T. by making it possible for those who know it and love it most to be near it and form a transitional zone between it and the world beyond.
Just a Hiker
10-12-2007, 13:33
A sidewalk isn't much, but it beats a strait jacket.
My "Dream Team" of doctors say the same thing! What they don't seem to understand is that it isn't just the physical exertion of walking or hiking.....it's everything else the trail gives me that a stroll down the street doesn't. I guess it's just very complex....or else I am just making it that way. Anyway, have a good day all!:)
Just Jim
Brrrb Oregon
10-12-2007, 13:39
My "Dream Team" of doctors say the same thing! What they don't seem to understand is that it isn't just the physical exertion of walking or hiking.....it's everything else the trail gives me that a stroll down the street doesn't. I guess it's just very complex....or else I am just making it that way. Anyway, have a good day all!:)
Just Jim
I understand what you mean. Absolutely, it is not the same thing! Still, sometimes you have to make do.
But you're in Maine! How far do you have to go to find some nature to walk through, anyway? I shouldn't talk too big, though. Portland has Forest Park and lots more, besides. Not every urban area has that. We're really very lucky here.
Good point, but the problem is that I ain't on it right now.....thats my point!:)
There are some great trails nearby, some even closer than Phippsburg, which is 55 minutes from you and has 10 or 15 miles of walks that I heartily recommend. They cure me periodically.
Back in the mid 80's, i ran into some troubled times and through a friend relocated myself to a camp on a babbling brook just a mile+-north of the AT on RT 27 near stratton, ME. No running water, just carry it from the stream 20' from the back door, quiet, secluded on a dead end gravel road.
Couldn't have found a better cure for my problems at the time.
A simplistic life with only a dog talking back at me, she was great company, she seldom talked back and seemed quite happy about being in the wilds.
We often hit the AT and walked for eternity it seemed.
We ended up spending a couple years here through deep snow and cold winters, wood heat only.
It wasn't an "Into the Wilds" story by any means because town was only 6 miles away, but the seclusion was cool:cool:
I would recommend it to anyone wanting to rid themselves of the complexities of society for awhile and take many "walks in the woods":) IT's :cool: and good for U, if you can.
saimyoji
10-12-2007, 15:25
It's raining cats and dogs here in Maine today, so it's pretty dreary and depressing. But seriously, I feel that the trail always keeps me sane. I have only been on the trail a total of 2 months this year, and it has been so hard on me mentally. It seems all I have done this year is travel from VA Hospital to VA Hospital trying to fix my crazy azz. I know this much, when I am not hiking, I am just another manic-depressive alcoholic.
Just Jim
Keep the Thermite away from this man. :eek:
My "Dream Team" of doctors say the same thing! What they don't seem to understand is that it isn't just the physical exertion of walking or hiking.....it's everything else the trail gives me that a stroll down the street doesn't. I guess it's just very complex....or else I am just making it that way. Anyway, have a good day all!:)
Just Jim
Jim, if you are in Augusta, just north of you on 27 is the newly created Kennebec Highlands which is 6000 acres of public reserve lands.
I have a recently purchased map in front of me($6.95) showing about 6 different mountain trails to hike in the Belgrade area, Day hikes.
I checked one out last week about 5+- miles round trip, nice overlooks of the Belgrade Lakes region, great colors right now.
The maps can be purchased at Day's store on the left in town Belgrade .
Worth checking out for some local day hiking.
Here's a picture (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=19216&c=563%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/9/1/4/100_1497_)from my Round Top Mtn hike
icemanat95
10-12-2007, 18:16
I recently started working for my father-in-law's company removing/killing invasive plant species part time. It's hard work carrying saws and mist blowers and such into and through the woods and along utility rights of way. It's sweaty and dirty and the hours are long and start at o-dark hundred in the morning, but I enjoy it and since I've started doing this stuff a couple days a week, I'm a hell of a lot happier than I was sitting at a desk for 2-3 times the hourly rate. It's being outdoors. rain or shine, cold or hot, it's better than being stuck inside.
shelterbuilder
10-12-2007, 19:01
Back in the mid 80's, i ran into some troubled times and through a friend relocated myself to a camp on a babbling brook just a mile+-north of the AT on RT 27 near stratton, ME. No running water, just carry it from the stream 20' from the back door, quiet, secluded on a dead end gravel road.
Couldn't have found a better cure for my problems at the time.
A simplistic life with only a dog talking back at me, she was great company, she seldom talked back and seemed quite happy about being in the wilds.
We often hit the AT and walked for eternity it seemed.
We ended up spending a couple years here through deep snow and cold winters, wood heat only.
It wasn't an "Into the Wilds" story by any means because town was only 6 miles away, but the seclusion was cool:cool:
I would recommend it to anyone wanting to rid themselves of the complexities of society for awhile and take many "walks in the woods":) IT's :cool: and good for U, if you can.
BMECC has a locked cabin near the trail crossing at Pa. Rt. 501, and for 20 years, the cabin has been under my jurisdiction as shelters charman. I've tried EVERYTHING that I can think of to get more folks in the club to use it because I think the place is great. Like you said woodsy - wood heat, carry your water in, quiet, secluded - it's a great place to think, to unwind, to lose the world's problems.
There aren't many of us who use it, though - only a handful of hardy souls. But we're happy, sane, and smiling!:D
shelterbuilder
10-12-2007, 19:03
I hope I will live to see private money being directed toward supplemental protection for the A.T. corridor that involves environmentally friendly, sustainable small businesses that would pass if not from generation to generation within families then from generation to generation within the A.T. community. I'm thinking of life-promoting, invigorating, outdoor work or trail services that serve to support the A.T. by making it possible for those who know it and love it most to be near it and form a transitional zone between it and the world beyond.
SOG, be careful - you're beginning to sound like McKaye.:D
But we're happy, sane, and smiling!:D
Roger that Shelterbuilder!
This would be a fun thread in which to participate, but, with the disconnects and sluggishness I'm experiencing, I couldn't and can't hope to keep up. I wrote what I thought was a hilarious post that would have served to draw woodsy into the thread, but I lost it. Oh, well. He knows a good thread when he sees one and showed up anyway.
You mean to say you saw this:
The connection has timed out:banana
Wendell Berry said it best IMO:
The Peace of Wild Things
When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.
I thinkyou may be right. Mags. That is beautiful. My favorite verse on the subject was this classic:
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. ~John Muir
But now I thinkI have another.
I recently started working for my father-in-law's company removing/killing invasive plant species part time.
What sort of invasives re you dealing within NH?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-12-2007, 20:52
::: Dino notes mood-elevating aspect of hiking and plans to take Dad hiking soon :::
refreeman
10-12-2007, 21:28
The AT brings me to the mountains and valleys that are the wet stones that grind and polish my edge to a razor sharp pinnacle of life.
Just a little time on the trail and I have drunk from the cup of life.
The trail puts you right weather you like it or not.
You are finally free to be comfortable.
The young realize their potential;
The old rejuvenate back towards their prime.
Your engine will be precisely in tune.
You will be alive much more than you normally are.
A thru hike is a long walk home to yourself at a higher level of life.
As the sperm fights to fertilize the egg,
A true hiker yearns and struggles to reach the end.
The result is life.
Nourish the parts of you that you have neglected.
Hike.
icemanat95
10-15-2007, 09:03
What sort of invasives re you dealing within NH?
Buckthorn, both shining and common; honeysuckle (oriental varieties); Bittersweet; Japanese knotweed; Japanese Barberry; Autumn Olive ands Russian Olive, Multi-flora Rose (otherwise known as MF Rose); various types of Swallow Wort, Thistles, and a few others that I can identify on sight, but not actually remember the names right now. I work the whole New England area so I also run into Phragmites, Purple Loosetrife and a number of other wetland species.
Some things we ought to thin out but don't because they are native, are greenbriar and some juniper and blackberry on rights of way (they grow into these tangled barrier patches that are hazardous to work around.
Most of the above invasives were brought in as either ornamentals or wildlife support plants, but because they lack natural enemies within the environment, they grow and spread out of control and outcompete native plants. Areas of my own property are over-run with honeysuckle, buckthorn and bittersweet, but I haven't had the time to deal with them. Now I have the time, but the season is past.
Ah yes, MF Rose. A couple of years ago we created a new section of PA's Mid State Trail by tunnelling underneath a clump that had grown up nearly 50 feet into old planted white pine trees. That's where the landowner wanted the trail to go, along his property line. First we had the two craziest flag the route. Then, we sent out a chain saw volunteer on point, 3 brushwhacker operators, and 4 loppers. Then we assigned that section to an overseer who went out and bought his own brushwhacker with a hedge trimmer end. Then I saw an IMBA presentation featuring MFR only about 10' high somewhere in MD and they said "There's no way you can send volunteers into this," they called out the SWECO dozer. I thought to myself, "Depends on your volunteers!" The other day one of the head PA DCNR invasive fighters spoke to another hiking club and I mentioned some of this to her. "Did you get pictures?" she asked. "Nope," I said, thinking to myself who gets pictures when there's work to do?
Pringles
10-15-2007, 11:22
I have a chainsaw. I can screem as I cut with that thing.
I remember going to a session on stress and the speaker started out by telling us he had his own bulldozer. It sounded perfectly lovely to go home and bulldoze something after a long and frustrating day, but I quickly realized that it was not the kind of stress-reliever that I would be able to acquire. The trees at my house are all very relieved.
icemanat95
10-16-2007, 09:58
Ah yes, MF Rose. A couple of years ago we created a new section of PA's Mid State Trail by tunnelling underneath a clump that had grown up nearly 50 feet into old planted white pine trees. That's where the landowner wanted the trail to go, along his property line. First we had the two craziest flag the route. Then, we sent out a chain saw volunteer on point, 3 brushwhacker operators, and 4 loppers. Then we assigned that section to an overseer who went out and bought his own brushwhacker with a hedge trimmer end. Then I saw an IMBA presentation featuring MFR only about 10' high somewhere in MD and they said "There's no way you can send volunteers into this," they called out the SWECO dozer. I thought to myself, "Depends on your volunteers!" The other day one of the head PA DCNR invasive fighters spoke to another hiking club and I mentioned some of this to her. "Did you get pictures?" she asked. "Nope," I said, thinking to myself who gets pictures when there's work to do?
You should have just killed the whole thicket. Most state DEP's encourage eradication of MF Rose and other invasives. We normally foliar spray, but cutting and stump spraying is more selective and precise. Cut the canes and spray the stumps with concentrated glyphosate herbicide. Start with concentrated Round Up 49.5% concentrated I believe, mix that 50/50 with water. Spray this on the freshly cut stems and the plant will suck the concentrate down in to the roots killing the plant. This also works well to prevent re-sprouting from cut hardwoods (softwoods don't re-sprout).
Shane! Come Back!
10-16-2007, 16:42
Logging on to WB a lot is a great cure for that. It works wonders for me.
You can also go to the MoodGYM online. It’s cognitive behavioral therapy that helps you program your own mind. Free & anonymous, courtesy of the Aussies.
www.moodgym.anu.edu.au/ (http://www.moodgym.anu.edu.au/)
I'm too chicken to do it yet myself.
You should have just killed the whole thicket. Cut the canes and spray the stumps with concentrated glyphosate herbicide.
Hmm, honestly that never occurred to us with our experience with public land managers who are allergic to the thought of volunteer herbiciders. This being private land...
Glyphosate, the ultimate antidepressant? :D
icemanat95
10-23-2007, 11:23
The beauty of glyphosate (besides its low toxicity to animals and people) is that it decomposes rapidly into beneficial soil components. Good stuff and extremely safe to use when used as directed.
Last thing I blew up took C4, det cord, and I used MDI shock tube.
This is in response to post 16 from Sgt Rock.
Hey Rock, have you ever launched an anvil? It takes a pair of 50-75 pound anvils and some playing cards and about a pound of black powder. It shoots the anvil about sixty feet in the air. VERY satisfying and you can reuse both anvils as long as you can get the black powder!