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trailsnail
11-17-2003, 14:42
What is the etiquette related to Hiker Boxes (where discarded hiker stuff is shared)? As a section hiker (some day thru hiker), I have left a few things, but haven't taken anything. Also wondering about the trailside snacks that are left for hikers. Are they only intended for thru hikers? :cool:

Lone Wolf
11-17-2003, 15:26
Hiker boxes are for ALL hikers. Same as goodies left at trailheads.

A-Train
11-17-2003, 16:29
Yes, Wolf is right. Everyone has free reign to take stuff from hiker boxes as well as trail magic. However, just don't be selfish, keep others in mind. If there are a couple sodas and you're really thirsty and alone, don't drink one and hike one up to a shelter to drink with dinner. Just take one. Obviously if your section hike is ending in 2 days it wouldn't be nice/generous to take half the hiker food/supplies in the box.

With that being said, if trail magic is left, its anyones grab. Most thru-hikers feel that they have claim to this stuff because they've worked harder for it. Why is that weekend or day hiker stealing OUR food? They're trip will be over in a day or two while we still have 3 months. The truth is that no one should feel bad for thrus'. If you wanna do something nice for them (and i think its a great idea/cause, do it, but no one owes them anything). Walking from end to end is a great thing, but when you sign up (so to speak) no one is promising you anything other than 2172 miles to walk over. Sure it's awesome to have a cold one or a snack after a long day but judt dont expect it.

I was on the other side of the coin on my hike, not thinking that we were owed anything but there was definately a feeling of animosity towards section hikers where hikers felt they deserved it more.

Unfortunately thru-hikers (myself included) tended to get caught up in the adventure thinking that we are greater than we are.
Just playing both sides of the field here...

Peaks
11-17-2003, 17:27
I'd say that stuff in hiker boxes is up for anyone's grabs. Afterall, it was discarded by someone who didn't want to lug it along anymore. So, if someone, anyone, can benefit from things that would have otherwise been trashed, then have at it.

However, I don't believe that the majority of "trail magic" was put there for the benefit of day hikers and weekenders. I think it was put there for the long distance hiker. Disagree with me if you like, but when I'm out for a short time, I don't touch it. I'll be back where I can get all the goodies I want very soon.

Lone Wolf
11-17-2003, 17:36
Thru-hikers are always 3-5 days away from goodies. A thru-hike is just a bunch of small section hikes thrown together.

Hikerhead
11-17-2003, 19:14
I feel that Trail Magic should be left for Thru Hikers. But, in one case where HH and I were doing an 18 mile day between McAfee's Knob and Daleville and we came across a case of Orange Crush before Hay Rock, we couldn't help ourselfs. I still feel bad for drinking one :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
11-17-2003, 19:18
What's so special about thru-hikers? That's elitist thinking, Hikerhead.

Hikerhead
11-17-2003, 19:25
What's so special about thru-hikers? That's elitist thinking, Hikerhead.

Whatever you say Wolf...they're special in my book.

Lone Wolf
11-17-2003, 20:21
Answer my question. What makes them special? More so than a guy or gal doing just a few hundred miles.

smokymtnsteve
11-17-2003, 20:44
Who recieves Trail Magic should be left up to the supplying Trail Angel..

Hikerhead
11-17-2003, 22:27
Answer my question. What makes them special? More so than a guy or gal doing just a few hundred miles.

Anyone can hike for a week or two. It takes something more to do the whole trail. Disagree?......of course you do. What's new.

alpine
11-18-2003, 06:09
with drawn

Uncle Wayne
11-18-2003, 07:47
The first time I came across food and drink left on the trail was on a day hike to The Dragon's Tooth in Virginia. When we started up to dragon tooth it wasn't there, but late that afternoon when we hiked down the kids found a large cooler half full of ice with several Cokes, Pepsi and Orange Juice in cans available. Hanging from a tree limb near the cooler was a sack with several oranges, apples and assorted candy bars. There was a sign on the cooler "For Thru Hikers only" but written on the sack with a magic marker was "For anyone hiking." If it hadn't been for that writing I would have passed them by but I let the kids get a candy bar from the sack.
The sad fact is the next 100 yards to the trailhead was littered with coke, pepsi and orange juice cans. We picked up 12 and dropped them in the trash cans at the trailhead.

Rain Man
11-18-2003, 07:56
I agree with those who think that trail magic and hiker boxes are for all. Once when I was doing a section hike I saw a plastic box by a trail head that said thru hikers only! It was filled with goodies of all sorts! I thought that was odd and ate from it anyway!

That was "dishonest" of you, then. You are not more important or holier than thou of whomever donated those goodies. THEY set the terms of their gift, not you. Maybe you think they are wrong, and maybe they even are wrong some times, but it's still their choice, not yours. You did wrong (absent emergency), IMHO.

I left a dinner and a Snickers bar for Lilredmg last weekend at Blue Mtn Shelter in GA in the sealed register pipe for a few hours, along with a note telling her it was there. As she met hikers coming her way, they told her Rain Man had left that stuff for her.

Instead, some Boy Scouts came along and helped themselves to it. I guess they felt the same way you did, that the "rules and regulations" of the gift weren't up to me and they were more deserving than the intended beneficiary.

If the donor puts "rules and regulations" on their trail magic, then those with HONOR will honor those wishes and those without honor will do whatever they want and rationalize their behaviour.

In my book, "character" is what you have and do when no one is watching.

P.S. Good for you, Uncle Wayne! I also pick up litter along the Trail and at campsites.

Rain Man

Blue Jay
11-18-2003, 08:29
If the donor puts "rules and regulations" on their trail magic, then those with HONOR will honor those wishes and those without honor will do whatever they want and rationalize their behaviour.

In my book, "character" is what you have and do when no one is watching.


Rules and Regulations for Trail Majic NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. In my book "character" is not forcing your "character" on everyone (and then saying you don't care, but............). First, if a thruhiker misses one inch of the Trail they are no longer a thruhiker, and now this. Soon we will have rules and regulations on breathing and pack color.

deeddawg
11-18-2003, 10:03
Instead, some Boy Scouts came along and helped themselves to it. I guess they felt the same way you did, that the "rules and regulations" of the gift weren't up to me and they were more deserving than the intended beneficiary.

Do you have any specifics on these Scouts, such as troop # and council? IMHO that is completely inappropriate behavior and if any of the boys I work with did anything like that, there would be h*ll to pay. :mad:

Please remember that Scout groups are a reflection of their volunteer leader(s) and there are at least some of us (too few) who teach the boys how to properly behave on the trail, observe LNT, show consideration for others, etc. Trouble is you won't typically notice us -- the ones who make an impression are unfortunately usually the ones making a bad impression.

deeddawg
11-18-2003, 10:05
Rules and Regulations for Trail Majic NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. In my book "character" is not forcing your "character" on everyone (and then saying you don't care, but............). First, if a thruhiker misses one inch of the Trail they are no longer a thruhiker, and now this. Soon we will have rules and regulations on breathing and pack color.

You miss the point, Blue Jay.

What's so hard about respecting the wishes of the donor, however misguided you may think they are?

alpine
11-18-2003, 10:08
with drawn

smokymtnsteve
11-18-2003, 11:20
Rules and Regulations for Trail Majic NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. In my book "character" is not forcing your "character" on everyone (and then saying you don't care, but............). First, if a thruhiker misses one inch of the Trail they are no longer a thruhiker, and now this. Soon we will have rules and regulations on breathing and pack color.


rules about who I give trail magic to is MY option...If I only want to give trail magic to thrus,,then you have no right to force your character on me by saying that I can't....it's my $$$ and time that I spend on supplying goddies and rides ..so I get to decide how I want to spend my time and money ..not you or anyone else..

My Zen also says that trying to force change on someone is violent...so don't try to force change in my trail magic..(you wouldn't succeed anyway :D )

and by the way..LNT ethics ALREADY has "rules" about pack and equipment colors..

A-Train
11-18-2003, 12:12
The Trail is no different than any other part of life. There will always be people dishonest who are cheating their way thru it. It's sad, but luckily, especially in the case of the hiking community, its relatively small.

It's present in many forms. From people lying about being thru-hikers to accept food, rides, generous offers from strangers, hospitality etc. People lie about hiking the whole Trail (see white v.s. blue blazing argument) and get diffensive and dishonest when people wanna know how they got 300 miles ahead on a couple days.

I had a real problem with people asking me to lie and say they were thru-hikers allowing them to stay in the huts and recieve free meals and lodging. I and many other thru's i'm sure were put in bad positions such as these. I actually had to cover for one foreign section hiker who was being bombarded with questions about his "thru-hike" by a hut croo member. Yes, it is my natural instinct to come to the aid of a fellow hiker rather than an AMC employee, but I felt VERY crumby about doing so.

Basically, just be honest. In many cases people willing to help hikers are NOT gonna discriminate between who is hiking 300 miles and who is hiking 2000. Just tell it how it is. You'll most likely still get that ride, free meal or floor space at someones house/hostel/hut.

SGT Rock
11-18-2003, 12:48
Personally I don't think it is worth the effort to try and classify a hiker, if you are on the trail and need something - then someone helps. Weekenders and day hikers give trail magic, why can't they receive it. When I see another hiker - I see a hiker, not a section hiker, slack packer, thru-hiker, etc. About the only hikers I don't care for are the ones that leave trash all over the dang place. IMHO the only rule that should be placed on trail magic (when appropriate) is "please pack out the trash".

trailsnail
11-18-2003, 16:58
Thanks for the diverse opinions! I definitely wouldn't take anything if it was labeled "thru hikers only". I do have to wonder why anyone would label it that way. It's too bad that some feel the need to catagorize members of the hiking community by the number of miles being attempted. Section or thru hiker, we are all only a few days from the next trail town.
It seems to me that all this trail magic tends to defeat the sefl-sufficiency challenge of hiking with all I need on my back. Perhaps I will feel differently when I do a really long section or a thru. :)

Rain Man
11-18-2003, 17:33
Thanks for the diverse opinions! I definitely wouldn't take anything if it was labeled "thru hikers only". I do have to wonder why anyone would label it that way. ....

I think you distilled two facets of the discussion nicely. Note that I never took a side on to whom trail magic should be offered, but only on honoring the donor's decision.

However, I certainly could imagine that the location, date, and time of the trail magic might weigh heavily on whether the donor placed any restriction on it or not.

Anyway, a lively discussion! ... and related to the discussion of folks "lying" (as two WhiteBlazers characterized it in the "White and Blue Blazin' " forum) about hiking the entire AT to get an ATC certificate. ~wink~

Rain Man

smokymtnsteve
11-18-2003, 19:11
Just to set the record str8...any time I go play trail angel...I don't limit it to thru's or even long distance hikers...I was just sparring with that squawking blue jay that was flying around and taking dices at folks...but Blue Jays always act like that in thier natural Habitat....and he's True to his school..

It the Purist that I shy away from with my Trail Magic...I would hate to be the person who polluted some pure thru hike...

Skyline
11-20-2003, 11:04
I'd give help to any hiker who needed it, and offer trail magic without conditions. When we're all out in the woods, we're all out in the woods. Duh...

As a practical matter, and from myriad experiences in nearby SNP, it is more likely gonna be the newbie/dayhiker/weekender who will NEED some kind of help than an experienced section hiker or thru-hiker. Often, they come out unprepared and get in situations which could be serious if not resolved by someone with the ability and knowledge to help. Let's remember, we all had to start somewhere, and that unprepared hiker might have been "us" once upon a time.

As for simple trail magic, there's usually enough to go around that we don't have to be stingy with it. It goes without saying, of course, that if you leave something with a specific person's name on it NOBODY should even think about eating/drinking/using it.

noa
11-23-2003, 20:59
:welcome I live and in western nc and hike on the the trail all the time. Also i leave trail majic for "ANYONE" who may come along ...
Please respect peoples wishes though, if a package is addressed to thru hikers only" and you are just out for a few miles then leave it be.
Happy trails to all. :sun

noa
11-23-2003, 21:06
The Trail is no different than any other part of life. There will always be people dishonest who are cheating their way thru it. It's sad, but luckily, especially in the case of the hiking community, its relatively small.

It's present in many forms. From people lying about being thru-hikers to accept food, rides, generous offers from strangers, hospitality etc. People lie about hiking the whole Trail (see white v.s. blue blazing argument) and get diffensive and dishonest when people wanna know how they got 300 miles ahead on a couple days.

I had a real problem with people asking me to lie and say they were thru-hikers allowing them to stay in the huts and recieve free meals and lodging. I and many other thru's i'm sure were put in bad positions such as these. I actually had to cover for one foreign section hiker who was being bombarded with questions about his "thru-hike" by a hut croo member. Yes, it is my natural instinct to come to the aid of a fellow hiker rather than an AMC employee, but I felt VERY crumby about doing so.

Basically, just be honest. In many cases people willing to help hikers are NOT gonna discriminate between who is hiking 300 miles and who is hiking 2000. Just tell it how it is. You'll most likely still get that ride, free meal or floor space at someones house/hostel/hut.No Nation like a do-nation... Free the free, Keep it free. :bse

WalkinHome
11-24-2003, 20:42
IMHO magic is for hikers, period. Those instances where, as a hiker, you see a snickers bar or cookies with a note to a specific hiker, that is a directed gift - not magic per se. There is nothing worse than a supposed angel doing magic and failing to follow up with a good police call of the area. That is not magic, it is littering.

Jack Tarlin
11-24-2003, 20:57
WalkinHome has raised an excellent point.....on many occasions, at or near Trailheads I've seen plastic supermarket bags filled with soda cans or candy wrappers, and even more often, I've seen abandoned coolers, often filled with rain water, empties, and assorted other trash. These were almost always examples of "Trail Magic" left by well intentioned people, but their kindness turned into unsightly garbage.

If you want to leave treats for hikers, I think that's great, but please don't leave coolers and garbage bags behind, assuming that sooner or later, someone else will clean up the mess. It is up to YOU to make sure that the kindness you leave at Trailside on Monday doesn't become a trash heap by Wednesday. All too often, this stuff doesn't get cleaned up or hauled away for quite awhile; this results in litter and filth, as well as providing ammunition to folks who disapprove of "trail magic" for all sorts of reasons. Most of these reasons are silly ones, but when these folks complain of littler left on or near the Trail by well-intentioned trail magicians, all too often they have a legitimate point. Either leave magic that doesn't generate trash, or return immediately to the site to pack out the wrappers and cans that are left behind; if you're unwilling or unable to do this follow-thru, then your "magic" is best distributed at a more appropriate place or time.

It'd be wonderful if hikers "packed out" their own empties and wrappers after enjoying these treats left by strangers, but the fact is, a lot of them don't. Because of this, the primary responsibility for cleaning this stuff up belongs to the folks who left it there in the first place.

trailsnail
11-25-2003, 01:21
I agree with Jack that those that leave trail magic are ultimately responsible for making sure that no trace is left... However, a hiker who consumes the magic should be prepared to take ownership of his/her can or wrapper. I hate carrying trash as much as the next person, but it's only fair to take responsibility when reaping the reward. IMHO "Leave No Trace" mentality is even more important with the growing number of hikers out there, not just in pristine wilderness.

Ox97GaMe
11-25-2003, 21:00
Ok. here is my nickle's worth.
As one of the more generous trail angels in the south, I have to say that rules about trail magic are rather loose about who can, and who cant have magic. As I look at it. 90% of the hikers I feed will become section hikers. Since I personally cant identify them by sight, I just feed all of them. I am fortunate only to find out who has finished in November each season. So, whether you hike one mile, ten miles, a hundred miles, or a thousand miles..... This BUD is for you. And a coke, some Oreos, a Snickers bar, a double cheeseburger, and a rib-eye steak.

Happy Hiking. Ox 97 Ga-Me

Rain Man
11-25-2003, 23:20
Ok. here is my nickle's worth.
As one of the more generous trail angels in the south, ... So, whether you hike one mile, ten miles, a hundred miles, or a thousand miles..... This BUD is for you. And a coke, some Oreos, a Snickers bar, a double cheeseburger, and a rib-eye steak.

Ox, can you arrange to meet me at some of the high gaps in NC on my next section?!!!!!! LOL

Rain Man

goshawk
12-05-2003, 06:07
To much garbage is left behind from the magic. Trail Angels all say they clean up but they don't know what the hiker does with the can 5 miles down the trail. I love trail magic and trail angels and I spread the magic once a year but if they want the soda I own the can and if they don't drink it on the spot they don't get it! I see it all to often people leaving card board boxes at trail heads and the animals tear thru that stuff like hikers and deposit someones good intention all over the dang place not to mention in alot of places it is against the law to leave things anywhere! Give magic responsibly please! I'm sick of cleaning up after the good intentioners.

Peaks
12-05-2003, 10:22
Goshawk, right on. I often think that the best trail magic would be just a jug of water that I could refill with and not need to treat. Sodas and other treats are available in towns and stores along the way.

If someone really wanted to help hikers, then get involved with your local trail club and contribute to the maintenance.