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Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 02:14
Ultrafit: Tapping his way along the Appalachian Trail

With the help of a voice-enabled GPS, Minneapolis attorney Mike Hanson, who is blind, is training for the hike of a lifetime.
By Stephen Regenold, Special to the Star Tribune (Minneapolis-St. Paul)
Last update: October 09, 2007 – 8:25 PM
On a Wednesday morning in mid-September, Mike Hanson zipped on a red windbreaker, checked his GPS device, then set out to hike a dirt trail at Theodore Wirth Park in Minneapolis. It was a training day for Hanson, a 42-year-old attorney from St. Louis Park who next March will start hiking the 2,174-mile Appalachian Trail, from Georgia to Maine, solo and unsupported.It would be a big deal even if Hanson, a lifelong outdoorsman, weren't blind.
"I want to show the independence of people with disabilities," he said.
Indeed, a journey on the trail -- which Hanson anticipates will entail eight months of travel at about 10 miles of trekking per day -- defines self-reliance: Hikers live out of their backpacks, pick up food once a week in towns, and sleep under the stars each night for weeks on end.
Detailed maps help hikers navigate the trail's twisting route. But for Hanson, who will bring no maps and does not use a guide dog, progress each day will be made by literally feeling his way along the trail, tapping a cane thousands of times a mile to avoid roots and rocks.
A voice-enabled GPS system will alert Hanson of his proximity to preprogrammed waypoints -- trail shelters, huts, road crossings, streams, mountain peaks -- keeping him on course as he treks through the wilderness.
"GPS is changing the way the blind and visually impaired can explore and learn about the world," said Janet Dickelman, president of the American Council of the Blind, Minnesota. "We're seeing the very forefront of the movement."
At Theodore Wirth, where paths weave through the woods adjacent to Highway 55, Hanson practiced his technique. He held a GPS-enabled cell phone to his ear, pressing the 1 key for a prompt.
"Olson Memorial Highway Service Road, 670 yards northwest," piped an electronic voice.
"I know where I'm at now," he said.
Hanson's GPS system, which consists of a small receiver unit and a software-enabled cell phone, is a custom setup assembled a year ago for about $1,200. GPS data for the Appalachian Trail is available from trail clubs, government agencies and hiking websites. But to customize the data for his expedition, Hanson has spent more than 100 hours synthesizing these sources, uploading thousands of points of latitude and longitude along the trail's nearly 2,200-mile course.
"If it goes as planned, I should never be more than a few yards from a GPS point," he said.
Earle Harrison, president of Handy Tech North America, a New Brighton company that sells products for the visually impaired, said Hanson is something of a pioneer. "He is among the first to adapt the GPS system for a wilderness expedition."
Hanson will carry two GPS units, 10 batteries and a small solar panel to charge equipment. USB thumb drives will hold extra copies of data. As a backup parachute, Hanson has old-fashioned audio cassette tapes that describe in detail every mile of the route.
"I'll be out there alone," Hanson said. "The system needs to be fail-safe."
Tapping through a practice run
It was 11 a.m. at Theodore Wirth when Hanson paused to take a reading. The trail ahead skirted a lake, swooping northeast past a marsh where the sun burned mist from the ground. He held the phone to his ear for a cue, then trekked on.
Walking steadily, Hanson tapped his cane on the trail once, then into the rough beside the path, back and forth in a staccato rhythm, tap-tap, tap-tap, tap-tap. His feet adjusted to the terrain, dancing around roots, setting firm on dirt, waiting momentarily to feel for traction, then stepping ahead.
"This feels like some thick brush," he said, raking his cane at hip height through trail-side vegetation at a junction.
Hanson will train all winter while seeking corporate sponsors to help finance the trip. His website, www.blindhiker.com (http://www.blindhiker.com/), went live last month.
A local production company, Travel'n Light Films of St. Bonifacius, plans to create a documentary. Dan Miller, executive director, said the plan is to film Hanson along four sections of the trail, following for a week at a time.
Blind since birth, Hanson has accomplished much, earning degrees in law, speech-language pathology and psychology. He has hiked, camped and fished his whole life. Now he hopes to show the world what raw ambition can do. Highlighting a new technology comes in as a close second.
At Theodore Wirth, now heading back to the trailhead, Hanson picked up the pace as voice cues piped in from the phone, signaling points of reference.
"A big part is remembering the terrain in case you have to go back," he said. He stopped by a pond, frogs creaking quietly below. He said he could feel the sun on his face.
The trail veered left ahead, then down a hill, a large rut tracing its descent where water had worn through to roots. But Hanson hiked without pause, touching the cane into the green brush beside the trail, then onto the hard-pack dirt, feeling for footing, then stepping confidently ahead and onward into the woods.
Stephen Regenold is a Twin Cities writer and author of the syndicated column the Gear Junkie.

© 2007 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

http://www.startribune.com/1244/story/1473666.html

EWS
10-16-2007, 03:03
It sounds like a real challenge, to rely on a GPS to tell you where to take every step. Good luck to him.

Sly
10-16-2007, 03:11
For a number of reasons he'd be better off with a dog.

jrwiesz
10-16-2007, 03:20
I think a lot of faith in the technology. And with no support?

It should be an interesting read on TJ, or wherever, should he post the journey.

Good luck to him in his endeavor.:sun

warraghiyagey
10-16-2007, 04:37
I'm having a hard time imagining the logistics of him traversing certain areas safely. The Mahoosuc Notch comes to mind. And the Arm. And climbing and descending Madison.
What about the iron stairs. Or floating log walks that sink when you step on them. Or log bridges. Certain blowdowns will cause a hell of a ruckus with his day too.
Does the GPS pick up on an angry moose? Or rattle snake? Tell him how deep and fast a ford is?
I do hope he has a safe and enjoyable experience, but I'm a little worried for him.

minnesotasmith
10-16-2007, 05:47
NFW. Sorry, but that's like only resupplying once per state; theoretically doable, perhaps, but unlikely.

NICKTHEGREEK
10-16-2007, 06:36
He better have 1 heck of a great performing GPS, I can think of several places I've been just between Rockfish Gap and Harper's Ferry where I lost lock completely because of the canopy.

I wish him luck but think he'd stand a better chance driving from GA to ME.

MOWGLI
10-16-2007, 07:08
NFW. Sorry, but that's like only resupplying once per state; theoretically doable, perhaps, but unlikely.

A lot of folks including me didn't even give you that much o a chance. Remember, you're rarely alone on the AT.

Having worked with the visually impaired, I wish him all the luck.

orangebug
10-16-2007, 07:22
If he gets past the rock ledge north of Blood Mountain and makes that left turn into the woods, maybe he has a chance to do it. If his plan includes using other hikers to guide him, I have no doubt that it could be done. His risk of injury with falls will be great. I think he is as unlikely to run into a rattler as the rest of us noisy folks.

This could be interesting.

TJ aka Teej
10-16-2007, 07:26
The GPS/Google Earth of the AT has some shelters on the wrong sides of mountains in Maine. I hope the accuracy he has available is better.

CoyoteWhips
10-16-2007, 08:45
Somebody has to be first. Hoping whatever problems he finds get solved.

minnesotasmith
10-16-2007, 08:56
A lot of folks including me didn't even give you that much o a chance. Remember, you're rarely alone on the AT.


1) Perhaps my experience thruing last year gives me a leg up on predicting what can and can't be done WRT hiking the AT WRT hikers that are going to have a harder time than the under-30 lightpacking start-out-already-fit types?

2) I have been alone plenty on the AT, especially at night, on the less popular sections of Trail, and during the less popular times year. ( I was on the AT in every month of the year except Dec. and Jan, from the first half of Feb. to the second week of Novof .) This guy sounds likely to be a slow hiker, meaning he, too, will take longer than April-September, putting him in the "don't see anyone in the shelters for 3 nights in a row" category, too.

3) I hiked for 2 weeks in NC with someone who had a GPS unit. It was often useless, especially for determining correct direction at poorly-blazed trail intersections.

I think he's most likely going to quietly quit in the first 2 weeks if he's truly hiking without being led, or within 6 weeks if he is. (Sooner, if he gets injured, say, going up Albert Mtn. on a not-rare rainy day.)

KirkMcquest
10-16-2007, 09:25
He better not get in MY way.

Just a Hiker
10-16-2007, 09:26
removed post

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 09:43
I'm having a hard time imagining the logistics of him traversing certain areas safely. The Mahoosuc Notch comes to mind. And the Arm. And climbing and descending Madison.
What about the iron stairs. Or floating log walks that sink when you step on them. Or log bridges. Certain blowdowns will cause a hell of a ruckus with his day too.
Does the GPS pick up on an angry moose? Or rattle snake? Tell him how deep and fast a ford is?
I do hope he has a safe and enjoyable experience, but I'm a little worried for him.

I'm with you on this one. How accurate is a GPS anyway? There are places that are extremely dangerous even if you can see exactly where to put your hands and feet. There are missing steps on the sides of wet rock. Mahoosuc Notch, like you said. Several mountains in the Whites.

Using only a GPS, and without anyone helping him, I think it is impossible if he is completely blind. He will get injured and have to quit. I hope I am completely wrong. It will be quite an accomplishment if he is able to succeed.

ChinMusic
10-16-2007, 09:49
While I think him even considering the AT is amazing, I don't think it is doable unless he is "legally blind" and not "totally blind". This is not a walk on a bike trail or navigation of city streets. I fear for his safety but support his desires to give it a try. GPS technology is wonderful but I have never found it as accurate as his needs will require.

I agree, a dog would be better than depending on GPS.

EWS
10-16-2007, 09:51
I agree that it will be extremely difficult for him, but I believe most people are thinking as if they're blindfolded and forced to do it with a GPS. The man has been blind since birth and has a lifetime of sharpening his other senses inorder to compensate for his lack of sight.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 10:01
Blind people may have learned to better utilize their other senses, but which sense is going to get him through Mahoosuc Notch? Touch? Hearing? Smell? Taste?

EWS
10-16-2007, 10:05
Suppose will have to wait and see; but common sense combined with the others, and a bit of help from some kind soul would be my guess.

LIhikers
10-16-2007, 10:10
Good luck to Mike Hanson.
I have my thoughts on relying on GPS to keep him headed in the right direction but I'm willing to wait until after his hike, however long or short it may be, to comment.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 10:12
and a bit of help from some kind soul would be my guess.

That doesn't seem to be the intention.

http://www.blindhiker.com/

Skyline
10-16-2007, 10:21
It's obvious that some of you are dubious, which doesn't shock me anymore in this place; however, this guy just might surprise you all. Even you Minnesotasmith, who should be the last person posting on this. This guy has a chance, and if any of you have ever talked with Bill Irwin, or heard his lectures, you would know that this guy has a chance. He may not be able to see; however, I can assure you that his other senses or quite keen!


Just Jim


Bill Irwin had help. Some of it was pre-planned, some of it happened spontaneously.

Mike Hanson says he will do this "solo and unsupported." That's the part I find hard to believe. To really stand a chance, he's going to need some help, especially the spontaneous kind. (Hell, almost all of us do.) And if hikers or others are nearby when he needs help, he'll almost certainly get it. It's when he's all alone and needs that help that I see a problem.

Agree with Sly. He'd be better off depending upon a well-trained seeing eye dog, who he's done lots of practice hikes with, than GPS. Those things can lead a person with 20/20 vision astray.

I'm sure if he perseveres, his will be one of the most talked-about stories of the Class of '08. Best wishes!

EWS
10-16-2007, 10:29
That doesn't seem to be the intention.

http://www.blindhiker.com/

From all it doesn't say, it is difficult to interpet. Common sense would dictate he'd do the same thing as anyone else who got turned around, ask for help or wait till someone to offer it. How many hikers forgo utter indepedence and give in an hitch, get a B&B, ask for directions, etc?

Mainly, I want to see the guy make it against the odds. Kind of like a big *** you to all the crybabies and drama-queens, who think their circumstance(s) are impossible to overcome when they have no disablities.

ChinMusic
10-16-2007, 10:29
Just how accurate are the GPS maps of the AT? With all the reroutes, cartographer errors, etc., I think it will be lacking for his needs.

One advantage he has is that he can hike as long into a day as he wishes. He will not be bound by daylight. He will only be bound by his energy level. He can also hike at night during hot weather without giving up efficiency.

MOWGLI
10-16-2007, 10:31
Bill Irwin had help.

The next person who successfully thru-hikes the AT without help, will be the FIRST PERSON to thru-hike the AT without help.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 10:31
Mainly, I want to see the guy make it against the odds.

Agreed. Obviously this dude thinks he can.

jesse
10-16-2007, 10:33
What about the iron stairs. Or floating log walks that sink when you step on them. Or log bridges. Certain blowdowns will cause a hell of a ruckus with his day too.
Does the GPS pick up on an angry moose? Or rattle snake? Tell him how deep and fast a ford is?

Not to mention relos, and traffic at road crossings.

While I admire his heart, his judgment is questionable. He should reconsider, using a dog, a partner or both. GPS is not accurate, or reliable enough.

EWS
10-16-2007, 10:36
You think the guy has never crossed a road before?

MOWGLI
10-16-2007, 10:38
If a blind climber could climb Everest, this guy can do what he is seeking. I imagine reception will be an issue under the canopy however. I'm behind him 110%.

I am seeking to interview this fellow, and if successful, will share that interview here. For those who think that lacking sight causes limitations, consider this. I emailed him this morning trying to setup an appointment to chat. He is available after today. He's out deer hunting today.

PS: No snide comments please.

Gray Blazer
10-16-2007, 10:42
He's out deer hunting today.

PS: No snide comments please.

Yeah, I'm out chasing some white-tail myself. (I'm not snide, just moronic.)

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 10:48
You think the guy has never crossed a road before?

That will be the easiest part.

He doesn't use a dog. A dog would be no more helpful to him than an airplane would be to me unless he spent a good deal of time learning to work with one.

ChinMusic
10-16-2007, 10:53
I am seeking to interview this fellow, and if successful, will share that interview here. For those who think that lacking sight causes limitations, consider this. I emailed him this morning trying to setup an appointment to chat. He is available after today. He's out deer hunting today.

I did not see is the linked article whether he was totally blind or legally blind. I have friends that are legally blind that can easily navigate a crowded restaurant, golf (gotta help em find the ball and aim), bowl, etc. I would suspect they could manage to find their way down most hiking trails as well. But if he is totally blind the level of difficulty is off the scale.

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 10:57
I think he's totally blind as the photograph on his website shows him with his eyes closed. Maybe he navigates by clicking?

jesse
10-16-2007, 11:00
You think the guy has never crossed a road before?
No. He has probably crossed many roads. But I still question his judgement. I don't give a damn if he gets flattened while crossing a road, however I feel sorry for the guy who hits him. He will probbably get sued, and pay the deductible to get his car fixed, or the motorist who crashes trying to avoid him.


If a blind climber could climb Everest...
That guy had help

warraghiyagey
10-16-2007, 13:09
PS: No snide comments please.

As mentioned the blind everest climber had a full entourage of support.

Oh, and come on MOWGLI. You're killing me. You drop a blind person deer hunting on us and no snide comments. Uh, er, ummm . . . dang it, dang it dang it.:p

I do hope the absolute best for him, and I understand the heightened senses for those who are missing one or more, but could those heightened senses make up the difference in situations that those of us who enjoy all of them still run into trouble?
I'm thinking, and based on the comedy of watching others on the trail I,m not alone here, that we trip, misstep and fall plenty along the way. It seems the outcome of these falls could be greatly exacerbated by not being able to see where you are falling.
How many of our slips on the trail find us wide-eyed during and uttering a life changing 'phew' when we come to a stop and realize we're OK. How many of the simple ones would have been much worse if we couldn't see the landing.

And if his GPS is good to within a few feet, think of the places above the tree line where the rock ledges are severe when they drop away right next to our feet, the path. What about the rock faces where you have to get on your butt and slide down 15 or 20 feet? I don't think the GPS is going to help him out with that info.

warren doyle
10-16-2007, 13:24
GPS - Gambling pedestrian silliness

partinj
10-16-2007, 13:38
Hi i work on a lot GPs Unit i am a tech. most if not all can be anywhere from 50 feet to 200 feet off. I wish him luck but he better off taking a train seeing eye dog. GOOD LUCK

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:12
For the most part, a GPS is the last resort of hikers to find/follow the trail, and that's for people that can see. Sorry, this guy has no chance.

Sly
10-16-2007, 14:16
I did not see is the linked article whether he was totally blind or legally blind. I have friends that are legally blind that can easily navigate a crowded restaurant, golf (gotta help em find the ball and aim), bowl, etc. I would suspect they could manage to find their way down most hiking trails as well. But if he is totally blind the level of difficulty is off the scale.

Yeah, I have a friend that is legally blind that hiked the entire trail in sections and without a GPS.

mudhead
10-16-2007, 14:31
Maybe he has one of those double ought, super secret GPS units.

Lugnut
10-16-2007, 14:37
They have braille GPS units? :eek:

Appalachian Tater
10-16-2007, 14:40
Read the article, it talks and takes voice commands. It's a good thing he's testing it thoroughly.

ChinMusic
10-16-2007, 14:44
I brought this topic up at our Lions Club meeting today. There was a lot of interest.

MOWGLI
10-16-2007, 15:00
I brought this topic up at our Lions Club meeting today. There was a lot of interest.

ChinMusic, I've done a lt of work here in Chattanooga with visually impaired young people. I have worked extensively with local Lions Club chapters to gain support (both financial & volunteer) for this work.

Send me a PM with your email, and I'll send you a PDF file of a poster I co-wrote for a Centers for Disease Control & Prevention conference on eliminating barriers to hiking for the visually impaired. Your Lions Club might find it interesting, and perhaps it will inspire the club to hold a hiking related event in your community for visually impaired people.

Check out this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGYBamx_8D0

orangebug
10-17-2007, 00:09
Sorry, but I didn't find a link to an article on his website.

I still wonder about accuracy of GPS - text to voice to text - and question how well it will get the specificity of location for hazardous areas - like the ledge drop off north of Blood Mtn. He isn't going to have enough benefit of the white blazes - that many of us miss on lousy spots like the Humps in rain and windstorm.

And in any case, how many drivers will slow down for him at NC US 19E, much less at the NY Turnpike? What will he do to find the blue blazes? How will he find the trickling water sources that many of us miss north of Mt Rogers halfway to Wise shelter?

I hope this guy will take advantage of all the kindness of strangers that will be offered.

Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 00:21
Sorry, but I didn't find a link to an article on his website.

The article is in the first post of the thread, text and link to original. His website is just a placeholder with his pic and a little meaningless copy.


I hope this guy will take advantage of all the kindness of strangers that will be offered.

He's blind, not crazy like Blanche DuBois.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 09:23
Yesterday I spent some time talking to Michael Hanson about his upcoming thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail. You can listen to a 21 minute with Michael at the link below;

http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/062072.html

Skyline
10-18-2007, 09:58
Yesterday I spent some time talking to Michael Hanson about his upcoming thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail. You can listen to a 21 minute with Michael at the link below;

http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/062072.html


When I click on the link to listen all I get is a HTTP 404 Page Not Found error message.

Sly
10-18-2007, 10:03
When I click on the link to listen all I get is a HTTP 404 Page Not Found error message.

I haven't listened yet but, it worked for me.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 11:15
My apologies. I fixed the link. Please let me know if you have any problems accessing the audio file.

http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/062072.html

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 11:47
[quote=MOWGLI16;428369]Yesterday I spent some time talking to Michael Hanson about his upcoming thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail. /quote]

Most people who talk about how they're going to hike the whole AT never so much as get to the Trail, and most of those who do, never come close to finishing the whole thing. Let's just not consider this guy's talk as important until he actually has a few states behind him, the odds being what they are. (And, no, my situation was not analogous; I had no irremediable physical handicaps that made a solo thru attempt unsafe, as he does.)

ChinMusic
10-18-2007, 11:52
I'd be impressed if he gets a few MILES behind him, let alone a few states.

If he manages to get from Springer to Neels he might be golden.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 12:09
(And, no, my situation was not analogous; I had no irremediable physical handicaps that made a solo thru attempt unsafe, as he does.)

You weren't obese, and perhaps morbidly so, when you started the trail?

Jack Tarlin
10-18-2007, 13:06
No he wasn't. A little plumb, maybe, but not morbidly so.

minnesotasmith
10-22-2007, 03:34
Apt pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/MarkD/MOTIVATION/motivator3584183.jpg

(Note it is PG-13, so don't look at it in front of Grandma or the under-12 set.)

JAK
10-22-2007, 04:53
I think it's way cool.

I haven't been on the AT, though I did drive under it once. I'm also not blind, but relating it to the Fundy Footpath, and from what I know of blind people, I would have to say that it is both doable and worth doing. I can see it taking a long time and requiring a lot of patience and determination in some sections. Blind people seem to have patience and determination in spades, and just as much sense to use their time wisely as the rest of us, with perhaps more wisdom than most.

JAK
10-22-2007, 05:03
Try and imagine what his memories will be filled with for the rest of his life when he finishes a journey such as that. The intensity of the sounds, the clarity of the smells, dampness, wind currents, and the tap tap tapping, learning the AT from one end to the other like no human has before.

minnesotasmith
10-22-2007, 05:37
Try and imagine what his memories will be filled with for the rest of his life when he finishes a journey such as that.

Yeah, as a blind parapalegic. No way can this guy honestly (e.g., both truly blind and alone) make it through Mahoosic Notch and a hundred other places that were a PITA for a fit, sighted hiker.

JAK
10-22-2007, 05:48
Well whether he only makes it that far, or all the way, it will be so much
greater an accomplishment because of the opinions of you and I eh. :D

p.s. Congrats on your successful thru-hike by the way. Cheers.

minnesotasmith
10-22-2007, 06:08
Well whether he only makes it that far, or all the way, it will be so much
greater an accomplishment because of the opinions of you and I eh. :D

p.s. Congrats on your successful thru-hike by the way. Cheers.

It's just that the AT in so many places is NOT a trail. It's a bog, a rockpile, a steep slope that's almost a cliff, a trackless waste, etc.

BTW, did you look at that picture I posted just above that I thought perfectly summed up his situation?

Jester2000
10-22-2007, 18:52
One advantage he has is that he can hike as long into a day as he wishes. He will not be bound by daylight.

I was unaware that any of us were bound by daylight, and as such I'm not sure that he has any sort of advantage, other than perhaps not needing a headlamp.

(We can all hike as long into a day as we wish)

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 19:07
and the tap tap tapping

No bear bells needed, huh?

Jack Tarlin
10-22-2007, 19:49
Smitty:

I agree with you that there are undoubtedly places where he will have to hike with someone else, or he will, in all likelihood, be injured.

But I find it interesting for YOU of all people to bo so discouraging about what this guy is apparently planning to do.

I seem to remember that people were speculating that you wouldn't make it 40 miles til some other folks, including me, wrote that it was pretty classless and mean-spirited to have a betting pool based on when someone was likely to quit the Trail.

But you persevered, and you finished, and I respect you for that.

Likewise, what this guy has in mind would not be seen as wise or even possible by most folks.

But one of the things I've learned out here is that very little on the Trail is impossible unless or until an individual DECIDES that it's impossible.

So because of this, I'm always leery on speculating on someone's chances of succes on the A.T.

Remember Smitty, once upon a time, and it wasn't that long ago, people were making similar speculations about YOU.

rickb
10-22-2007, 20:08
If he is totally blind, this is totally irresponsible.

If he falls and breaks something or worse others will be called on to carry him out.

My guess is he takes a phone to make the call. I'd bet money on it.

Just cause the guy is blind doesn't mean he should be given a pass for doing something stupid.

Just a Hiker
10-22-2007, 20:20
If he is totally blind, this is totally irresponsible.

If he falls and breaks something or worse others will be called on to carry him out.

My guess is he takes a phone to make the call. I'd bet money on it.

Just cause the guy is blind doesn't mean he should be given a pass for doing something stupid.


So are you saying that only able bodied people with all of their senses are allowed to fulfill their dreams? :rolleyes: Plenty of sighted people get their butts hauled out of the woods every year, and for stuff much riskier than hiking blind. Let him hike his own hike, and if he can't do it, then can't do it.

rickb
10-22-2007, 20:31
So are you saying that only able bodied people with all of their senses are allowed to fulfill their dreams? :rolleyes: Plenty of sighted people get their butts hauled out of the woods every year, and for stuff much riskier than hiking blind. Let him hike his own hike, and if he can't do it, then can't do it.

I'm not letting him? How do you figure.

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 20:35
There are computer screen-reading programs for the blind. No doubt he is researching his trip online and will run across these comments.

I will volunteer to run a string through Mahoosuc Notch for him.

Just a Hiker
10-22-2007, 20:43
I'm not letting him? How do you figure.

I am not saying you are letting him do anything. He's going to do what he wants to do despite what anyone says in here. What I did ask however...... is your contention that only able-bodied people with all of their senses entitled to fulfill their dreams?

Tin Man
10-22-2007, 21:05
I think Mr. Hanson is probably more aware of the challenges than any of us can or should guess. And I don't imagine him to be a person who is going to back down because anyone here thinks they know more about the challenges than him. Instead, I think Mr. Hanson needs our support and encouragement. If he wants assistance before or during his hike, he can ask for it. What he doesn't need is a bunch of Internet chatter telling him why it cannot be done. It is a sad commentary when people who know little about someone else's challenges suddenly think they are an expert about those challenges.

Jester2000
10-22-2007, 21:24
It is a sad commentary when people who know little about someone else's challenges suddenly think they are an expert about those challenges.

Why is it that, somewhere along many of these discussions, people like to claim that other people are claiming to be experts?

Or shall we only limit our participation to things we are experts on? Probably a bad idea. The site would be alternately boring and disgusting.

TM, your post seems to have a conflict within itself -- you say he's not the kind of guy who's going to be affected by what's said, but then go on to say he needs support and encouragement, but doesn't need internet chatter telling him why it can't be done.

But let me tell you what I think -- I think reading why others think it can't be done is a good thing, and not just to motivate oneself with spite. It's entirely possible that MR. Hanson isn't necessarily aware of all of the difficulties he's going to face. Now hang in with me here. Listening to those who have some experience might help him come up with solutions to problems he's not (until reading this) aware that he's going to face.

I build ridiculous, one-of-a-kind things every once in a while, and if it weren't for other people telling me what was wrong with my designs, and why they wouldn't work, most of them would've turned out crappy. Positivity is nice, but it doesn't help you build Van Gogh costumes, or folding castle walls, or wearable scaled-down foam core jeeps with working headlights.

I would imagine the same holds true for hiking blind. So I say everyone should feel free to be critical. Just don't be so sure it's impossible, or that he can't do it. . .

Programbo
10-22-2007, 21:54
Just don't be so sure it's impossible, or that he can't do it. . .

I will say for the record that I think it is impossible with todays technology for a totally blind individual to hike the entire AT "alone and unsupported".... Unless I am totally misunderstanding what alone and unsupported means and I am totally wrong about the accuracy of this talking GPS and how it relates to the AT specifically...Now if it can pinpoint someones position right up the center of the trail thru every turn and give a verbal notice if one drifts a foot or two from that line and steer you back to center then I will change my opinion

Tin Man
10-22-2007, 22:29
Jester, good points. I object more to the tone used here and to those who say it is impossible. There is a body of evidence that suggests that people with disabilities overcome them in ways that those without disabilities may not appreciate. And while it is a good idea to offer our thoughts on what might be some of the more difficult challenges of the trail for those with disabilities, it is not helpful to suggest that they cannot be overcome. It would be more helpful to offer suggestions on how these challenges might be overcome and turn this into a more productive discussion. Mr. Hanson may not want our help, but perhaps we can get him thinking more about where he might need our help if we keep the discussion positive.

Tin Man
10-22-2007, 22:38
I will say for the record that I think it is impossible with todays technology for a totally blind individual to hike the entire AT "alone and unsupported".... Unless I am totally misunderstanding what alone and unsupported means and I am totally wrong about the accuracy of this talking GPS and how it relates to the AT specifically...Now if it can pinpoint someones position right up the center of the trail thru every turn and give a verbal notice if one drifts a foot or two from that line and steer you back to center then I will change my opinion

I am quite sure that the center line of the trail cannot be followed by strictly following a GPS waypoint data regardless of whether your vision is normal or not. However, I think it can be close enough that a blind person can use his other senses to pick up the trail. The challenge will be reacquiring the trail after a road crossing or along a particularly challenging section where the footpath is more of a rock scramble. Perhaps Mr. Hanson has thought through some of these already and it would be nice to hear from him and/or offer suggestions on how these might be overcome.

minnesotasmith
10-22-2007, 23:33
It's entirely possible that MR. Hanson isn't necessarily aware of all of the difficulties he's going to face.

Exactly. The AT is NOT always a nice, neat trail as one might find a manicured "nature" trail in a city park to be, and as I suspect this Hanson guy halfway expects it to be, far more than it is. The AT often being not really a trail at all, but simply a route, was one of the most important surprises I found during my own thruhike.

It's not as if this guy has ever seen photos of its more extreme sections...:-?

Appalachian Tater
10-22-2007, 23:49
It's not as if this guy has ever seen photos of its more extreme sections...:-?

And he couldn't have read about them, either, right? Or been hiking before? Oh, yeah, I forgot, people who are blind can't read or hike.

I have it from a reliable source that the only reason he is hiking the relatively "easy" A.T. is to complete the Triple Crown.

The reason his friends are keeping the secret about how hard it is from him is so they can laugh at him when he falls down and stuff.

rickb
10-23-2007, 03:14
I object more to the tone used here and to those who say it is impossible.WRT my post, you probably have a good point there.

That said, to the extent that Mr. Hanson elects to walk alone for any appreciable distance, his exerience will be more than simply a testimony about the human spirit, however. It will be a fundamentally dangerous undertaking.

While he did do a practice hike in SNP, that is hardly a good representation of what one can expect along the AT. To my way of thinking, it would be the last place I would suggest for a preparation/test hike.

minnesotasmith
10-23-2007, 08:29
WRT my post, you probably have a good point there.

That said, to the extent that Mr. Hanson elects to walk alone for any appreciable distance, his exerience will be more than simply a testimony about the human spirit, however. It will be a fundamentally dangerous undertaking.

While he did do a practice hike in SNP, that is hardly a good representation of what one can expect along the AT. To my way of thinking, it would be the last place I would suggest for a preparation/test hike.

If this blind guy thinks the SNP is typical of the AT, no wonder he got the (false) impression that the
AT is a park walk. Better someone take him to a mile-long boulder field, or Mahoosuc Arm on a rainy day.

minnesotasmith
10-23-2007, 08:30
WRT my post, you probably have a good point there.

That said, to the extent that Mr. Hanson elects to walk alone for any appreciable distance, his exerience will be more than simply a testimony about the human spirit, however. It will be a fundamentally dangerous undertaking.

While he did do a practice hike in SNP, that is hardly a good representation of what one can expect along the AT. To my way of thinking, it would be the last place I would suggest for a preparation/test hike.

If this blind guy thinks the SNP is typical of the AT, no wonder he got the (false) impression that the
AT is a park walk. Better someone take him to a mile-long boulder field, or Mahoosuc Arm on a rainy day, staying with him until he figures out that a blind hiker belongs thruing by himself about as much as I do in high school girl's gymnastics.

gold bond
10-23-2007, 09:46
" The final value of any expedition is not what you failed to discover but what you found in it's place"
In theory is what he is about to attempt impossible....yes, no doubt.
Is his safety in question....yes, no doubt.
Should we all be concerned and worried for him....yes, no doubt.
Should we tell him that what vhe is about to attempt is going to be a failure....NO!!!
If you look back in history if everyone that was told that that they were going to fail just didn't do what they were going to attempt and gave up....where would we be now?
I think Chesty Puller said it best when told that he was about to run up on a million Chinese with just the Marines he had and that they would die if they did not surrender. He was quoted as saying,"Someone needs to tell them to surrender now before we get started!"
I probably paraphrased that but you know what I meant. Support this mans dreams...pray for this mans safety...help out if your needed.
I have been living with a bad valve in my heart for a long time now. Everyone tells me to slow down, take it easy. If I croak on the trail, just make sure my ashes get to Kahtadin cause I ain't quittin' !

Mags
10-23-2007, 10:06
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Courage-Bill-Irwin/dp/0941539865

K-Man
10-23-2007, 11:12
WRT road crossings...his article said that he will have an audio tape containing a detailed description of the trail. I assume the text will be coming from those guide books that come with the map sets. Those books are super detailed telling you to "turn right on the road and walk 250ft before crossing into the woods on the other side". I wish this guy luck and hope he makes it to Jerz so I can meet him!!!

Programbo
10-23-2007, 19:07
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Courage-Bill-Irwin/dp/0941539865

Mister Irwins hike is a totally different story as he had a trained dog AND constant support from sighted hikers...The question before us is can someone hike the AT who is blind and relies on no help from others and does not have a dog


I am quite sure that the center line of the trail cannot be followed by strictly following a GPS waypoint data regardless of whether your vision is normal or not. However, I think it can be close enough that a blind person can use his other senses to pick up the trail.

Has the entire AT been plotted into some sort of GPS data base so that the GPS would even know you were or were not near the center or even 10 feet from it?

Appalachian Tater
10-23-2007, 19:09
WRT road crossings...his article said that he will have an audio tape containing a detailed description of the trail. I assume the text will be coming from those guide books that come with the map sets. Those books are super detailed telling you to "turn right on the road and walk 250ft before crossing into the woods on the other side". I wish this guy luck and hope he makes it to Jerz so I can meet him!!!

I know I had a hell of a time finding the trail on the other side of the road many times. Hopefully he won't have such difficulties.

Just a Hiker
10-23-2007, 19:33
[quote=Programbo;432409]Mister Irwins hike is a totally different story as he had a trained dog AND constant support from sighted hikers...The question before us is can someone hike the AT who is blind and relies on no help from others and does not have a dog


I don't think anyone has completed a thru-hike without some sort of assistance, so if he does, he'll be the first......sighted or otherwise. But here is the thing....like every other thru-hiker, he is going to make friends and other aquaintances along the way who will want to assist him if he wants. Also, I have a feeling Mr. Hanson is going to draw a crowd wherever he is on the AT, so he'll probably have more help than he needs or maybe even wants.

Jim

Panzer1
10-23-2007, 22:26
I would not blame him if he yellow-blazed around the dangerous parts of the trail. He should just hike the easy/safe parts. I think that would be the best approach. If he does yellow-blaze, no one should hold it against him.

Panzer

Tin Man
10-23-2007, 22:42
Has the entire AT been plotted into some sort of GPS data base so that the GPS would even know you were or were not near the center or even 10 feet from it?

The following link has GPS data collected from various sources.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm

Here is the usage agreement:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851253/k.68B1/Data_Download_Agreement.htm

In short, don't count on the data to be accurate.

minnesotasmith
10-24-2007, 01:02
I would not blame him if he yellow-blazed around the dangerous parts of the trail. He should just hike the easy/safe parts. I think that would be the best approach. If he does yellow-blaze, no one should hold it against him.

Panzer

It's simply that he'll just be a section-hiker when he's done, NOT a thruhiker.

Skyline
10-24-2007, 15:13
It's simply that he'll just be a section-hiker when he's done, NOT a thruhiker.


Why do you use the condescending term, "just . . . a section hiker"?

Lone Wolf
10-24-2007, 15:20
Why do you use the condescending term, "just . . . a section hiker"?

i refused trail magic out of a cooler left in the woods of vermont because it was labeled "for thru-hikers". i was JUST section hiking. it was left by an ex-thru-hiker

warraghiyagey
10-24-2007, 15:25
Why do you use the condescending term, "just . . . a section hiker"?

It's a thoughtless condescension that some who have thru hiked used. You would think the experience of a thru hike would actually have abated these qualities in people but for some it lives on as a crass entitlement that is certainly contrary to the energy of the trail.
And, to be sure, there are people who are still planning their thru without yet a day on the trail that are bound with this same entitlement. Sad. Maybe another thru would help. But I met the first NOBO in the 100 mile this year completing his fifth thru. His only communication to me with all his trail experience and to a fellow hiker? That I wrong to avoid the puddles. Not 'have a great hike' or a story of why he enjoys the trail so much. Just a comment about something that works for me that he perceived as wrong. Yup that's all he had to offer.

Tin Man
10-24-2007, 15:34
i refused trail magic out of a cooler left in the woods of vermont because it was labeled "for thru-hikers". i was JUST section hiking. it was left by an ex-thru-hiker

I thought everyone was JUST a section hiker until they were thru. :-?

Lone Wolf
10-24-2007, 15:37
I thought everyone was JUST a section hiker until they were thru. :-?

nope. me and another guy were refused "magic" at fontana dam one year cuz we weren't thru-hiking all the way to maine even though we started at springer the same as the hikers getting fed

Tin Man
10-24-2007, 15:45
nope. me and another guy were refused "magic" at fontana dam one year cuz we weren't thru-hiking all the way to maine even though we started at springer the same as the hikers getting fed

The irony comes in when the admitted section hiker hikes further than the potential thru-hiker who drops out.

Mags
10-24-2007, 15:56
Mister Irwins hike is a totally different story as he had a trained dog AND constant support from sighted hikers...The question before us is can someone hike the AT who is blind and relies on no help from others and does not have a dog






Agreed. However someone told him that he couldn't do it either. That's all I am implying.

Quit the naysaying and just wish the person good luck.

woodsy
10-24-2007, 16:13
Why do you use the condescending term, "just . . . a section hiker"?
Hey, i picked up on this condescending language too, guess we know who thinks he's the greatest. Although, he did btch alot about trail conditions along the way, maybe not the greatest:rolleyes:

mudhead
10-24-2007, 16:47
nope. me and another guy were refused "magic" at fontana dam one year cuz we weren't thru-hiking all the way to maine even though we started at springer the same as the hikers getting fed

Was probably tofu pups and gardenburgers. Sorry you were treated shabbily.

Programbo
10-24-2007, 20:16
The following link has GPS data collected from various sources.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm


"Horizontal accuracy of this data set varies depending on the source data from which it was compiled. All GPS data used to create this data set were collected using Trimble GeoExplorer II, ProXL, or ProXR GPS equipment and post-process differentially corrected. However, in some areas this included only 2D GPS data (which is generally less accurate than 3D GPS data). Though no formal tests were conducted, all portions of the data based on 3D data are assumed to meet National Mapping Standards of +/- 46.5 feet horizontal accuracy at a 95% confidence level. Portions based on 2D data, however, may exceed National Mapping Standards in some areas. All portions of the data based on GPS data are noted within the attribute information."

So even the data for the better parts can be off by 46.5' from center and there are parts that haven`t even been plotted using the best method :eek:

But I shall wish the gentleman good luck and Gods speed

rickb
10-24-2007, 20:24
Quit the naysaying and just wish the person good luck.

You might be on to something.

If he gets hurt or killed, at least he will have done so while following a dream.

minnesotasmith
10-24-2007, 22:45
You might be on to something.

If he gets hurt or killed, at least he will have done so while following a dream.

If he has to be rescued, and an emergency services worker gets injured (or even simply put at risk) while rescuing him from an entirely forseeable calamity, what role in choosing that "dream" did the ranger/EMT have?

IMO, this guy is as irresponsible as a dayhiker with little gear or training bushwacking downhill from the Knife Edge Trail in Baxter State Park, or even more so than someone fording the Kennebec River in the afternoon. There are just some things that are irresponsible to attempt, and this is arguably one of them.

Mags
10-25-2007, 11:02
You might be on to something.

If he gets hurt or killed, at least he will have done so while following a dream.

A snarky comment really just helps to prove my point.

Thanks Rick.

Hurt or killed? Sheesh. You sound like my mom before I took off on my first solo backpack.

Has it occurred to you people that maybe, just maybe, the gentleman has done his research and is aware of what he may face.

Again, lets be supportive and not negative.


I understand it is hard for some of you to do. But give it a try.

Mags
10-25-2007, 11:03
But I shall wish the gentleman good luck and Gods speed


See.if Programbo can do it, you can too. :sun

Lone Wolf
10-25-2007, 11:03
he needs a sighted person to help him hunt, he'll need a sighted person to help him do the trail. bottom line

Mags
10-25-2007, 11:04
It's simply that he'll just be a section-hiker when he's done, NOT a thruhiker.

A bit condescending...

I just noticed this statement.

Me? I'm simply a hiker.

woodsy
10-25-2007, 11:16
Me? I'm simply a hiker.
Oh yeah? well i'm JUST a hiker, damn proud of it too:D
I know a guy who takes blind people on wilderness river canoe trips to the North Maine woods for a week at a time, they love it!:) More power too em.

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 11:22
If you listen to the interview I conducted with him, Mike will welcome help from hikers who are sighted. Especially in some of the sketchier places. My guess is that the positive energy will flow his way. Unlike the internet, the trail seems to work that way.

warraghiyagey
10-25-2007, 11:27
If you listen to the interview I conducted with him, Mike will welcome help from hikers who are sighted. Especially in some of the sketchier places. My guess is that the positive energy will flow his way. Unlike the internet, the trail seems to work that way.

Here, here. I second the WB Zenmasters sentiment.

minnesotasmith
10-25-2007, 12:19
A bit condescending...

I just noticed this statement.

Me? I'm simply a hiker.

Only an issue to other people if he claims he thruhiked, but skipped entire states he was incapable of hiking. While a 3-day section hike and a completed thruhike of course have different costs and benefits, normally the difference in what a person's hike was to them in the end is a private matter. (Imagine if Warren Doyle, or anyone who only carried a toy pack the whole way along the AT, had the meaning of their hikes completely determined by other people...)

Anyway, if he's getting help from other hikers, then he's just another Bill Irwin, getting led by the hand along the Trail. Yawn. It's been done already, so not a first.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 12:23
Only an issue to other people if he claims he thruhiked, but skipped entire states he was incapable of hiking. While a 3-day section hike and a completed thruhike of course have different costs and benefits, normally the difference in what a person's hike was to them in the end is a private matter. (Imagine if Warren Doyle, or anyone who only carried a toy pack the whole way along the AT, had the meaning of their hikes completely determined by other people...)

Anyway, if he's getting help from other hikers, then he's just another Bill Irwin, getting led by the hand along the Trail. Yawn. It's been done already, so not a first.

It's a first for him. Easy does it big fella.

Panzer1
10-25-2007, 12:25
It may not be a "first" but I still think it is exciting to watch someone in his condition prepare for such a hike. I wish him luck.

Panzer

warraghiyagey
10-25-2007, 12:26
It's a first for him. Easy does it big fella.

Yeah, someone's very impressed with his own thru hike. So much so that he sees it as leverage against the dreams of others. Sad that that is what he got out of it.

Mags
10-25-2007, 12:27
Only an issue to other people if he claims he thruhiked, but skipped entire states he was incapable of hiking. While a 3-day section hike and a completed thruhike of course have different costs and benefits, normally the difference in what a person's hike was to them in the end is a private matter. (Imagine if Warren Doyle, or anyone who only carried a toy pack the whole way along the AT, had the meaning of their hikes completely determined by other people...)

Anyway, if he's getting help from other hikers, then he's just another Bill Irwin, getting led by the hand along the Trail. Yawn. It's been done already, so not a first.

That's nice. I'm still just a hiker. :)

Flush2wice
10-25-2007, 12:31
nope. me and another guy were refused "magic" at fontana dam one year cuz we weren't thru-hiking all the way to maine even though we started at springer the same as the hikers getting fed


Was probably tofu pups and gardenburgers. Sorry you were treated shabbily.

I hope it wasn't beer. That's not allowed there you know.

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 12:35
"What 'makes blindness suck?' It's not just the limitations. In fact, often it isn't the limitations at all. There's a saying that goes around in the "blindness community" about the real barriers being attitudinal. When I go to that restaurant with you and there's no braille menu and you start reading to me, I don't have a "problem" with blindness. If I go to that restaurant with you and there is no braille menu and you read in silence and I am clueless about what's available, then I have a "problem" with blindness, although I'm more likely to think that the problem is you are selfish and insensitive for not reading me the menu. If I fear that you will react to my limitations or differences in a negative way, then I have a problem with blindness."
~Sarah J. Blake~

warraghiyagey
10-25-2007, 12:39
. . . normally the difference in what a person's hike was to them in the end is a private matter. . .

. . .Imagine if Warren Doyle, or anyone who only carried a toy pack the whole way along the AT, had the meaning of their hikes completely determined by other people...

Anyway, if he's getting help from other hikers, then he's just another Bill Irwin, getting led by the hand along the Trail. Yawn. It's been done already, so not a first.

Dude you're all over the place. Uuummmmmm. . . well, if you want to go ever your post you'll see the wide scope of contradiction for yourself.
If not, hope you enjoyed your thru, which is well documented, and hope the experience manifests itself for the beauty it brought in each of your days then, and hopefully still brings you now.

warraghiyagey
10-25-2007, 12:42
Bowing silently to MOWGLI once again. . .

Lone Wolf
10-25-2007, 12:44
I hope it wasn't beer. That's not allowed there you know.

nope. burgers and dogs. when i do feeds it's for SECTION hikers only

warraghiyagey
10-25-2007, 12:49
nope. burgers and dogs. when i do feeds it's for SECTION hikers only

I'll be SOBO next year. But the day I'm in your area I'll definitely be a section hiker.
SOBO8 - Katahdin-Wolf's place, Wolf's place-Springer.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 12:53
That's nice. I'm still just a hiker. :)

Like everyone else, especially those that feel special (referring to those without disabilities). :)

dessertrat
10-25-2007, 14:01
Good luck to him. I think he will have real problems-- it's not a matter of feeling around on the rocks to know where to put your foot next-- it's being able to see 10 feet ahead so you know that where you put your foot next will actually lead to another place to put your foot?

I know the man has been blind since birth, but I'm trying to picture descending the steep talus slope from chairback mountain, or whitecap, without being able to see. That scares the crap out of me.

Not to mention that the trail can change if a tree falls down.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 14:32
Good luck to him. I think he will have real problems-- it's not a matter of feeling around on the rocks to know where to put your foot next-- it's being able to see 10 feet ahead so you know that where you put your foot next will actually lead to another place to put your foot?

I know the man has been blind since birth, but I'm trying to picture descending the steep talus slope from chairback mountain, or whitecap, without being able to see. That scares the crap out of me.

Not to mention that the trail can change if a tree falls down.

Listen to the interview. It sounds like he is hoping for help in the difficult spots.

dessertrat
10-25-2007, 14:44
Listen to the interview. It sounds like he is hoping for help in the difficult spots.

If he is going to take 8 months to do it, it will be pretty lonely out there on the trail at certain points. He will either have to start way ahead of most people, or the thrus will have all gone by him by the time he gets near the end. I have spent three days on the trail in Maine without seeing anyone.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 14:51
If he is going to take 8 months to do it, it will be pretty lonely out there on the trail at certain points. He will either have to start way ahead of most people, or the thrus will have all gone by him by the time he gets near the end. I have spent three days on the trail in Maine without seeing anyone.

He says he is starting March 1 and thinks it will take 6-8 months. If it looks like he will be closer to 8 months, he will need to flip-flop for weather reasons and could get some assistance from SOBOs. It is hard to say who he will meet along the way and what kind of special magic he may receive. Positive reinforcement and advice is the best medicine here.

Marta
10-25-2007, 14:58
I, too, think he will have real problems. I think that the more elaborate a plan you have worked out before the hike, the more you have to adjust/change/solve as you go along. He'll have more challenges than most. He is showing remarkable resourcefulness in preparing, and will certainly have a lot of people rooting for him and wanting to help him out.

Will he be able to figure things out on the fly? My mind boggles at the challenges he faces. Not just the terrain, but how will he get water from marginal sources? How can he manage a stove without getting burned? IT sounds as if he has been hiking Will he persist when it would be so much easier to quit?

Only time will tell.

I wish him well.

And if he's in the 80% who go home early, the blindness may not even be a factor in his decision.

ChinMusic
10-25-2007, 15:08
From the interview it is good he is willing to accept assistance over diff areas (which are all over the place), and assistance in general. From the interview he says he has the ability to "tell if it's daylight" but that is about the limit of his vision. That tells me his vision will be of no help in foot placement or for ascertaining danger.

I think it is wonderful that folks want to push the envelope, but I cannot see him possibly averaging the 9 miles per day it takes to complete the thru in 8 months. I would consider the trek from Springer to Neels to be a monumental feet.

Appalachian Tater
10-25-2007, 17:54
Good luck to him. I think he will have real problems-- it's not a matter of feeling around on the rocks to know where to put your foot next-- it's being able to see 10 feet ahead so you know that where you put your foot next will actually lead to another place to put your foot?

I know the man has been blind since birth, but I'm trying to picture descending the steep talus slope from chairback mountain, or whitecap, without being able to see. That scares the crap out of me.

Not to mention that the trail can change if a tree falls down.

This is what I worry about for him, too. Image Mount Madison with your eyes closed even without any wind. Could you get up even Mt. Albert blindfolded? Mahoosuc Notch? Very short people have to just drop or slide in a lot of places. It's not a matter of being tough and persistant but a matter of it just being possible or not possible. I can't rock climb like a lot of people can, no matter how much I want to. Everyone has limits at some point.

Since he is now saying that he is willing to accept help, he can certainly make it, but he probably still doesn't realize how much help he will need if his only experience is in the Shenandoah National Park.

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 18:04
It's not a matter of being tough and persistant but a matter of it just being possible or not possible.

Aren't you glad that others didn't define for you what was possible or impossible?

Whistler
10-25-2007, 18:11
I met Mike this summer in the Shenandoahs. Very cool guy. I was surprised by how well he got around. He's certainly done his research, and I know he'll give it an honest effort.

-Mark

Appalachian Tater
10-25-2007, 18:15
Aren't you glad that others didn't define for you what was possible or impossible?

Yes. I think he'll make it with some help. It would be possible for him to make it with no direct guidance on the trail, but he would be hiking in the snow at some point and he would have to be even luckier than most to avoid injury.

And none of us could have made it without help.

rickb
10-25-2007, 18:15
He will define things for himself.

The difference in his stated approach is that it is objectively dangerous. And not only in the tough sections.

I hope that his confidence in GPS is well founded, because it appears he is depending its precsion at least as much as on his own strengths.

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 18:34
The difference in his stated approach is that it is objectively dangerous. And not only in the tough sections.



How many thru-hikers have friends, family and co-workers who think that their endeavor is "objectively dangerous", and try to talk them out of it? In the almost 5 years I've been a member here, I've seen lots of posts on this issue. I had plenty of folks try and talk me out of my hike because they perceived it to be "dangerous." Lots of sighted people never hit trail because of this perception.

rickb
10-25-2007, 18:42
People say crossing the Kennebeck is dangerous and advise against it.

How would you rank the dangers inherent in this man's plan relative to that?

Also, when you commented that his blue tooth cell phone GPS might not get reception in many places (yea, I know he has a satelite GPS too) did he seem surprised, or was than just my way of hearing things?

On a technical level, how close to the actual footpath do you think his GPS will place him? Would he agree with your answer?

He said he was unfamiliar with the mountains in the East. Do you think the straight CCC trails in SNP are in anyway a good proving ground for the kind of adventure this man is about to begin?

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 18:53
Rick:

I'm not going to start comparing fording the Kennebec with this guy's plans. Fact is, there are a lot tougher fords on other trails in this great country. I leave the decision whether to ford or not up to individuals.

If you listened to my interview, you heard what I heard. He was on a phone in Minnesota. I did notice that an ad in the current edition of Backpacker Magazine is promoting new Garmin units that work under a closed canopy. I haven't seen test results, so I am assuming there is truth in advertising taking place.

Regarding your question about how close will he be to the footpath with his GPS? Well, I assume its not a sub-meter unit like a Trimble. You need a special use permit for one of those.

Lets not dabble in assumption though. Lets think about the trail this guy is going to hike, and the community that forms along the trail. This is the Appalachian Trail we're talking about. Do you think he'll be alone all that much? He knows how to use a cane and is an experienced outdoorsman. He won't be solely relying on the GPS. He has other tools at his disposal.

Look, if this was my daughter who is visually impaired, I'd have some issues. But it's not. End of story.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 18:59
The GPS is only going to guide him to the approximate location of the footpath itself. The GPS measurements he is using are approximate and all the GPS units have an error factor - mine is within 22 feet. He will have to rely on his other senses to find and follow the footpath. I would speculate that between his walking stick and feeling along with his feet, he can be pretty accurate at following the sections of the footpath that are primarily dirt. The challenge will be where the path is pure rock and assistance from others would be most helpful. Another thought is in places he may be walking the corridor if he cannot find the footpath itself, but with GPS that could be close enough...except where there is a cliff, of course. Keep in mind he has his walking stick which he probably uses more effectively than we can imagine. Also, we should not underestimate his capabilities of utilizing his other senses for finding his way much more effectively than a sighted person.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 19:03
I did notice that an ad in the current edition of Backpacker Magazine is promoting new Garmin units that work under a closed canopy. I haven't seen test results, so I am assuming there is truth in advertising taking place.

There is recent thread on GPS units. Many report the newer units do indeed work well under the canopy.

Just a Hiker
10-25-2007, 19:11
Did someone say that he now thinks he wants help? Just wondering, but with a March 1st departure and an 8 month schedule, he would definately have to flip.

rickb
10-25-2007, 19:17
There is recent thread on GPS units. Many report the newer units do indeed work well under the canopy.

I know Del Doc an others put a great deal of effort into the GPS centerline survey of the trail a few years ago.

I am assuming that a continuous stream of waypoints were recorded. Does anyone know how far apart these recording were made? Every couple feet? If so, are those millions of waypoints all included in the data you can download from the ATC?

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 19:19
Did someone say that he now thinks he wants help?

He never said he wouldn't accept help. The journalist was the one who made it seem that way by using the words "solo and unsupported." That was not a quote. That was the reporter's take.

rickb
10-25-2007, 19:23
He did make a big point about self-relieance and showcasing the effectiveness of technology, however.

At least that was what I recall.

I understood that as spending significant hours of the day nagavating for himself.

Just a Hiker
10-25-2007, 19:25
He never said he wouldn't accept help. The journalist was the one who made it seem that way by using the words "solo and unsupported." That was not a quote. That was the reporter's take.


I see....where can one read this interview? I would volunteer for the job....it aint like I got anything else going on next year....but hiking. We would make a great team.....A blind guy and a crazy ex-Jarhead! :banana

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 19:26
Excuse me if it has already been mentioned here, but he could probably just follow the smell.

Dances with Mice
10-25-2007, 19:30
I got twenty bux that sez he'll reach Maine and Mt K.

And if I'm wrong it'll be the first time, won't it?

MOWGLI
10-25-2007, 19:33
I see....where can one read this interview? I would volunteer for the job....it aint like I got anything else going on next year....but hiking. We would make a great team.....A blind guy and a crazy ex-Jarhead! :banana

You can listen to it at the link below. But mind you, he's not soliciting folks to come and help him. You seem to have a big heart Just a Hiker. Listen what he says when I ask him about help and mention Mt. Moosilauke. http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/062072.html


Excuse me if it has already been mentioned here, but he could probably just follow the smell.

Very good! There is some truth to that.

Just a Hiker
10-25-2007, 20:03
[quote=MOWGLI16;434462]You can listen to it at the link below. But mind you, he's not soliciting folks to come and help him. You seem to have a big heart Just a Hiker. Listen what he says when I ask him about help and mention Mt. Moosilauke. http://americanhiking.chattablogs.com/archives/062072.html


I listened to the interview, and from what I get from it he really wants to rely on the GPS and audio tapes. I think he really wants to show just how independent blind people can be; however, he states he'll take assistance along the way. I don't think he wants an actual hiking partner, but if he does start on March 1st, he'll have plenty of assistance.

Marta
10-25-2007, 20:10
... Also, we should not underestimate his capabilities of utilizing his other senses for finding his way much more effectively than a sighted person.

Last winter I ended up hiking way after dark, with an almost-dead headlamp. It was winter, so the leaves were off the trees and the underbrush had been beaten down by snow, which had since melted away. I was surprised to find that I could immediately tell if I had stepped off the Trail by the sound and feeling of my feet on the ground. As several other people have pointed out, this man probably has much more accutely developed his other senses.

And I think that he will be flooded with offers of help, possibly even more than he'll need or want.

Pirate
10-25-2007, 20:13
Save your time and money, stay at home. Forget about hiking the AT. Start with something easier like the CNO Canal Trail. If you are blind, you could not read this anyway.

Just a Hiker
10-25-2007, 20:14
Last winter I ended up hiking way after dark, with an almost-dead headlamp. It was winter, so the leaves were off the trees and the underbrush had been beaten down by snow, which had since melted away. I was surprised to find that I could immediately tell if I had stepped off the Trail by the sound and feeling of my feet on the ground. As several other people have pointed out, this man probably has much more accutely developed his other senses.

And I think that he will be flooded with offers of help, possibly even more than he'll need or want.

This point has been made a few times and it's a good one. My brother-in-law is totally blind, but his other senses or so keen that it is spooky sometimes. This guy will be okay, he'll need some help, but he'll be fine, and I hope to run into him next year.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 20:18
And I think that he will be flooded with offers of help, possibly even more than he'll need or want.

Yes, I hope he has an effective way for dealing with this potential issue so as to politely turn help away when he doesn't desire it and get the help he will need when the terrain becomes difficult.

Tin Man
10-25-2007, 20:20
Save your time and money, stay at home. Forget about hiking the AT. Start with something easier like the CNO Canal Trail. If you are blind, you could not read this anyway.

Now that is helpful. :rolleyes:

Programbo
10-25-2007, 22:30
Keep in mind he has his walking stick which he probably uses more effectively than we can imagine.

How`s he going to be "tapping the ground thousands of times an hour" and use his trekking poles as well? :p

Obviously I`m just poking fun at trekking poles

Jester2000
10-26-2007, 01:00
. . .I have spent three days on the trail in Maine without seeing anyone.

That's just 'cause everyone else knew where you were.


A bit condescending...
I just noticed this statement.


If you only just noticed it, you weren't offended.


Bowing silently to MOWGLI once again. . .

If you do it silently, blind people won't notice.


Aren't you glad that others didn't define for you what was possible or impossible?

I let physics do that.

Mags
10-26-2007, 10:51
T

If you only just noticed it, you weren't offended.





No. That's not the case. But thanks for telling me how I think and feel. :D

(I normally skip over the MS diatribes. I noticed his statement in follow up replies that other people wrote. Don't ASSUME. We all know what that spells. ;) ).

dessertrat
10-26-2007, 12:28
This is what I worry about for him, too. Image Mount Madison with your eyes closed even without any wind. Could you get up even Mt. Albert blindfolded? Mahoosuc Notch? Very short people have to just drop or slide in a lot of places. It's not a matter of being tough and persistant but a matter of it just being possible or not possible. I can't rock climb like a lot of people can, no matter how much I want to. Everyone has limits at some point.

Since he is now saying that he is willing to accept help, he can certainly make it, but he probably still doesn't realize how much help he will need if his only experience is in the Shenandoah National Park.

You're preaching to the choir. . . isn't it digusting to have two people agree with each other.

I don't want to sound too negative on the guy, but you bring up a really good point. Most sighted people know that they can let themselves drop a certain distance when descending something. How will he know?

Sly
10-26-2007, 13:19
He'd probably fall off McAffe Knob or Tinker Cliffs.

Dakota Dan
10-26-2007, 13:55
JR, my nephew, has a GPS linked to a laptop computer that talks to you. I'll not let him in my car with the thing until gas goes back to a buck a gallon, lot of trouble and extra miles to boot.

I wish the guy all the luck in the world, but if I was him I'd have a good service dog carry the spare batteries for me.

warren doyle
10-26-2007, 18:40
Orient Express = 1 GPS = 0

Rough'Tuff
11-16-2007, 17:43
Somebody has to be first. Hoping whatever problems he finds get solved.

He won't be ther 1st blind hiker to do it. Bill Erwin already BTDT. He would be the 1st without a guide dog. I'm with Sly on that. He would be better off with a dog. I wonder if he's talked to Bill Erwin about his plan.

Uncle Silly
11-16-2007, 21:08
He'd probably fall off McAffe Knob or Tinker Cliffs.

Why would a blind man even go out to an overlook??

Appalachian Tater
11-16-2007, 23:57
He won't be ther 1st blind hiker to do it. Bill Erwin already BTDT. He would be the 1st without a guide dog. I'm with Sly on that. He would be better off with a dog. I wonder if he's talked to Bill Erwin about his plan.

He doesn't use a guide dog. A guide dog would be no more useful to him than it would be to you.

Flush2wice
11-17-2007, 00:43
Why would a blind man even go out to an overlook??
Photo op?

Tin Man
11-17-2007, 09:01
Why would a blind man even go out to an overlook??

To feel the air rise from the valley below; to listen to the sounds and smell the breeze; to experience many of the things that the sighted may not fully appreciate.

Panzer1
11-17-2007, 13:02
This year I met a SOBO in PA who didn't have any legs from the knees down. So, if he can hike the entire trail without legs, I guess a blind guy with 2 good legs should do well enough.

Good luck to all those who are on the trail.

Panzer

Appalachian Tater
11-17-2007, 13:40
To feel the air rise from the valley below; to listen to the sounds and smell the breeze; to experience many of the things that the sighted may not fully appreciate.

And most importantly, to urinate over the edge of the cliff into the void.

Lone Wolf
11-17-2007, 13:55
there is no void. it's only a 12 foot drop

Tin Man
11-17-2007, 14:45
And most importantly, to urinate over the edge of the cliff into the void.

Nice.....NOT

minnesotasmith
03-05-2008, 04:04
with this guy? Anyone know?

Tin Man
03-05-2008, 04:20
He postponed until March 2009.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31855

DiverDan
03-12-2008, 21:58
Hello,

I exchanged some email with Mike recently, and he has had to put off his
start until March 2009. He is still most definitely planning on hiking the
AT. I sincerely hope he does, and I hope to join him for a few days when he
passes through my part of the country. I won't be much help to him as I am
also totally blind, but I'm sure he would appreciate the company.

I've just read most of this thread and am pretty stunned by all the
misinformation, assumptions, and yes, even some bigotry. Firstly, it seems
that a lot of people think that "being" blind is as if you were to just close
your eyes one day and all those fears and lack of ability stay with you for
ever. It doesn't really work that way. Just like anything, you eventually
learn to deal with it. Think of it this way, if I grabbed a guy off the
street, who had never even been in an airplane before, and I stuck him in the
pilot's seat of an aircraft two miles out from the end of the runway, I bet
he would be pretty scared, and would probably crash the plane. However, if
he received, say forty years of training on piloting an aircraft, he would
probably become pretty competent at it. Being blind is no different. I've
been blind for over 30 years, I have managed to pick up a thing or two during
that time. Take a sighted person and put a blindfold on them and chances are
that they wouldn't manage to walk ten steps down the trail. Take a blind
person who has been doing that for 30 or 40 years, and they will do just
fine. Don't put all your fears and doubts on someone else just because you
can't imagine how they do something.

Secondly, some of you seem to think that Mike expects the GPS system to keep
him dead center in the trail, guiding every foot step. GPS isn't that
accurate, nor are the recorded points on the trail. However, you seem to
ignore the fact that he will also be carrying a 3 pound supercomputer with
him, his brain! It will be his brain, his feet, his trekking poles that will
give him the information about the next step, the GPS will just be telling
him he is in the correct general location and heading in the correct
direction.

Much has been made about specific "dangerous" areas of the
trail. Guess what, he won't be using the GPS to tell him that there is a
ledge six inches in front of him. He will use the GPS to tell him that he is
approaching, a hundred yards, from that difficult area. At that point, he
will become much more careful with every step.

those of you who implied that Bill Irwin was lead by the hand, that his guide
dog placed every step for him, or that he had people with him most of the way
have probably not read his book, and most certainly haven't spoken with him
as I have. Bill did hike with people along the way, just like most people do
at some point along the trail. He also spent days at a time, hiking alone.
He started the hike completely solo and went days before he met anyone.

As for those of you who say Mike is being irresponsible and could cause a
rescuer to have to risk their life to save him, why is that any different
than any other person who chooses to hike, rock climb, mountaineer, skydive,
or any other inherently dangerous activity? As far as I am concerned, stupid
people should have a tax put on them because they do stupid things that cause
others to pay for their stupidity. Mike isn't being wreckless, he knows what
the risks are. He, believe it or not, has mechanisms to compensate for his
blindness. He can mitigate much of the risk.

The same people who are saying he can't do it were the same people who told
Erik Weihenmayer he'd never climb El Cap, Denali, Everest, or any of the
other seven summits. You are the same people who told me I would never make
a solo skydive. 320 jumps later I am here to say you were wrong. There are
always people willing to say "you can't", "he can't", "I can't". And for the
most part, there will be those of us out there proving you wrong, again and
again.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind here. Those of you who think it is
impossible or wreckless will continue to do so until you are proven wrong.
And then, once you are proven wrong, you will try to make caveates, like, "He
got some verbal help at this particular point or that particular point."

To be honest, my personal feeling is that those of you who object the most,
are probably afraid to imagine that a blind person could do it. If you found
it so difficult, and you can see, do you feel that it diminishes your
accomplishment because someone else did it with their eyes closed? I have
yet to meet a person who didn't tell me that a blind person couldn't do their
particular job for this or that reason, in many cases they were wrong. I
guess no one wants to think that their job can be done with their eyes
closed. The sad thing is that it doesn't diminish the sighted person's
accomplishment, it does show that blindness isn't the hindrance that most
people believe it to be.

Instead of training that laser beam of negativity toward Mike, why don't you
take some of that energy and figure out how those obstacles you point out,
can be overcome. It's easy to say this or that can't be done, it takes
effort to figure out how it can be done.

Lone Wolf
03-12-2008, 21:59
it's a stunt

Tin Man
03-12-2008, 22:13
Instead of training that laser beam of negativity toward Mike, why don't you
take some of that energy and figure out how those obstacles you point out,
can be overcome. It's easy to say this or that can't be done, it takes
effort to figure out how it can be done.

I contacted Mike and started the following thread, so we could learn more about his hike. He has not been back to tell us more.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31855

FallGirl
03-12-2008, 23:30
Very interesting read. If he does make it (which I really hope he does), he'll be a millionaire; think of all the money he'd make as the spokesperson for that GPS company.

DiverDan
03-13-2008, 10:46
it's a stunt
Of course it's a stunt. The first time anyone does something, it's a stunt.
The first time someone said they were going to hike the AT end-to-end in one season was pulling a stunt.
What's wrong with that?

Tin Man
03-13-2008, 12:18
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=stunt&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stunt#sharethis)

stunt2 http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fstunt)/stʌnt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stuhnt]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun 1.a performance displaying a person's skill or dexterity, as in athletics; feat: an acrobatic stunt. 2.any remarkable feat performed chiefly to attract attention: The kidnapping was said to be a publicity stunt.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stunt


All thru-hiking is a stunt

climberdave
03-13-2008, 14:32
Well, I must admit that Mike is in for an uphill battle, but where there is a will there is a way. My favorite quote:

"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
Isaac Newton

I admire his determination.

That is all...

Jester2000
03-18-2008, 18:45
I have yet to meet a person who didn't tell me that a blind person couldn't do their particular job for this or that reason, in many cases they were wrong.

Seriously, you have yet to meet someone who didn't tell you that a blind person couldn't do their particular job?

Every person you meet tells you that a blind person couldn't do their job?!? You've got to start traveling in different circles.

I've read through these posts, and while there's a fairly large amount of negativity, there's also quite a bit of genuine concern. And honestly, the person in question hasn't been thru-hiking for the past 40 years, so reading about others' concerns would, I think, be helpful to someone planning this kind of hike. Not for us to come up with solutions, I think, because as you've pointed out, we don't know what Mike's capabilities are. He does, and I'm sure he'll come up with the solutions. But, and here's the salient point -- you can't come up with solutions if you're unaware of the problems.

For the record, a blind person could probably do my job very well, once he knew the layout of the receiving room in which I work.

But I used to volunteer to read to the blind, and I think that might pose a challenge for the sightless.

Programbo
03-18-2008, 22:08
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=stunt&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stunt#sharethis) stunt2 http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fstunt)/stʌnt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stuhnt]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–noun 1.a performance displaying a person's skill or dexterity, as in athletics; feat: an acrobatic stunt. 2.any remarkable feat performed chiefly to attract attention: The kidnapping was said to be a publicity stunt.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stunt
All thru-hiking is a stunt

I`ll disagree..I think we are looking at #2 here as the word applies to a thru-hike and it clearly states "performed chiefly to attract attention".... Therefore announcing a sub-40 day challenge or a blind hike may be a "stunt" but just a normal thru wouldn`t be

Tin Man
03-18-2008, 23:44
I`ll disagree..I think we are looking at #2 here as the word applies to a thru-hike and it clearly states "performed chiefly to attract attention".... Therefore announcing a sub-40 day challenge or a blind hike may be a "stunt" but just a normal thru wouldn`t be

Disagree with what? I quoted the definition of stunt and said all thru's are stunts. Maybe a few exceptional thrus fall under definition #2, but normal thrus fall under #1 with a some elements of #2.

ChinMusic
03-18-2008, 23:51
To be honest, my personal feeling is that those of you who object the most,
are probably afraid to imagine that a blind person could do it. If you found
it so difficult, and you can see, do you feel that it diminishes your
accomplishment because someone else did it with their eyes closed? I have
yet to meet a person who didn't tell me that a blind person couldn't do their
particular job for this or that reason, in many cases they were wrong. I
guess no one wants to think that their job can be done with their eyes
closed. The sad thing is that it doesn't diminish the sighted person's
accomplishment, it does show that blindness isn't the hindrance that most
people believe it to be.

Sounds like that chip on your shoulder is quite heavy. I am sighted and healthy but still realize that there are things well beyond my scope. It's called being a realist.

CrumbSnatcher
03-19-2008, 11:01
The next person who successfully thru-hikes the AT without help, will be the FIRST PERSON to thru-hike the AT without help.
enough said.

CrumbSnatcher
03-19-2008, 11:05
IMO i.d still take the dog for companionship. good luck,and enjoy on your journey...,

minnesotasmith
03-19-2008, 14:32
This year I met a SOBO in PA who didn't have any legs from the knees down. So, if he can hike the entire trail without legs, I guess a blind guy with 2 good legs should do well enough.

Good luck to all those who are on the trail.

Panzer

Those are totally different disabilities.

Programbo
03-19-2008, 17:45
Disagree with what? I quoted the definition of stunt and said all thru's are stunts. Maybe a few exceptional thrus fall under definition #2, but normal thrus fall under #1 with a some elements of #2.

But definition #1 doesn`t apply to a thru..Words can have anywhere from 1-10 meanings and not all the meanings apply to that word in all circumstances (For example the word "set" has probably 10 unrelated meanings)... The definition of "stunt" given in #1 applies to a single momentary act involving physical prowess...i.e. the example they give of an acrobatic move...Only the second definition would apply to a thru IF it was done to draw attention to something or someone

ChinMusic
03-19-2008, 23:51
Those are totally different disabilities.
Absolutely.

Tony Volpentest has shown how successful a runner can be without lower legs. If fact it may be possible, with prosthetics, to achieve superior speeds compared to able-bodied athletes.

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t790/T790713A.jpg

grabird
06-24-2010, 16:41
For those who question whether it's safe to hike with total reliance on a GPS device, I guess none of you fly commercial. It's absolutely no different than a pilot relying on nav aids through zero visibility, and up to just a few miles visibility on takeoff and landing.

Private pilots pursuing their Instrument Rating are all too familiar with the fogged-over goggles they have to wear while in air, in motion, and rely and trust entirely on just a few dials worth of instrumentation. Challenging, yes, impossible? Clearly hundreds of thousands of safe flights every year prove it is not.

To be sure, this blind hiker will have challenges. But clearly, based on his outdoorsman experience already, he is an independent spirit and not afraid of difficult challenges.

I wish him great success on his journey. He's already half-way done, making REALLY good time too, so clearly he's up for it.

I'm just really shocked at all the nay-sayers here. :mad:

You would think, if anyone would "get it" -- what challenges and being a free spirit unafraid to experience adventure -- it would be hikers.

(I'm sure the same folks criticized the teenage kid who climbed Mt. Everest earlier this year and the teenage girl who attempted to sail around the world. Stunning. These people are all MY heroes!)
:banana

ChinMusic
06-24-2010, 17:53
For those who question whether it's safe to hike with total reliance on a GPS device, I guess none of you fly commercial. It's absolutely no different than a pilot relying on nav aids through zero visibility, and up to just a few miles visibility on takeoff and landing.
Oh brother...........:rolleyes:

Lilred
06-25-2010, 08:16
For those who question whether it's safe to hike with total reliance on a GPS device, I guess none of you fly commercial. It's absolutely no different than a pilot relying on nav aids through zero visibility, and up to just a few miles visibility on takeoff and landing.

Private pilots pursuing their Instrument Rating are all too familiar with the fogged-over goggles they have to wear while in air, in motion, and rely and trust entirely on just a few dials worth of instrumentation. Challenging, yes, impossible? Clearly hundreds of thousands of safe flights every year prove it is not.

To be sure, this blind hiker will have challenges. But clearly, based on his outdoorsman experience already, he is an independent spirit and not afraid of difficult challenges.

I wish him great success on his journey. He's already half-way done, making REALLY good time too, so clearly he's up for it.

I'm just really shocked at all the nay-sayers here. :mad:

You would think, if anyone would "get it" -- what challenges and being a free spirit unafraid to experience adventure -- it would be hikers.

(I'm sure the same folks criticized the teenage kid who climbed Mt. Everest earlier this year and the teenage girl who attempted to sail around the world. Stunning. These people are all MY heroes!)
:banana

flying a plane is absolutely no different than hiking the AT??? Hmmmm I don't think there is anywhere up in the air, where if you misstep just a couple of inches in one direction, would cause you to plummett 100 feet over a sheer rock wall. No GPS is going to be that accurate, or know where all those 100 foot drops are located. Flying a plane and hiking the AT are absolutely NOT the same thing.

And didn't some teenager just die on Mt. Everest within this last week? he couldn't make it down and his team had to leave him to die. Is he your hero too??

Encouraging a complete stranger, whom you know nothing about, to do something that could conceivably kill them, or cause great bodily harm, is not, imho, good advice. Add to the equation a significant disability like blindness, and it would be negligent not to warn about all the possible problems from people that know the AT intimately.

I have hiked some of the AT. I know there are places where a step to the left and you drop straight down 50-100 feet and at the same place, a step right would cause you to slide down a mountain 100 feet over a sheer rock face. Now you and I could probably fair ok on the slide, but someone without sight might wonder just where and into what he slid. BIG difference and a GPS is useless in that situation.

Relying too much on technology in an activity that could kill you, is never a wise choice and certainly not any advice I would give. You mention how you think hikers who 'get it' would be more supportive? It's because we know what's out there. We know what he's up against, and we know a gps isn't going to tell him about that cliff that is right next to him.

Bill Irwin hiked the trail and relyed on his dog and other people. To say you are going to rely soley on a gps, is not something I would encourage.

Of course, I still hope he makes it and am rooting him on.

grabird
06-25-2010, 10:13
No seriously, have we become a nation full of pansies?

Just 250 years ago, 10 and 12 year olds were getting on ships for 7-8 month voyages at sea to land on a foreign land where they knew no one, had no money, and no promise of survival.

But today, everyone is so concerned about living forever.

News flash: YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE, sooner or later.

Life is meant to be LIVED and enjoyed to the fullest. I will NEVER deny someone their right to fulfill their dreams, andI will always encourage them to the fullest extent possible. Yes, including strangers, and yes, including those whose dreams involve life-threatening risk.

If you're so concerned with a perfect, safe life, stay home and crawl into a corner in a fetal position.

Seriously, some of you have significantly lowered my expectations for the kinds of people I would find along the A.T. Where I thought I would adventurous spirits, I'm hearing self-righteous naysayers who think only they alone are experienced and qualified to pursue and live their dreams.

Disgusting.

ChinMusic
06-25-2010, 14:05
Seriously, some of you have significantly lowered my expectations for the kinds of people I would find along the A.T. Where I thought I would adventurous spirits, I'm hearing self-righteous naysayers who think only they alone are experienced and qualified to pursue and live their dreams.

Disgusting.
Please wear I label saying "grabird" so I can avoid you. You seem like the type I would like to avoid.

I guess I'm bored. PLEASE enlighten us how saying hiking with a GPS while blind is like flying a plane on instruments only.

I think I will enjoy the laugh.

Oh, and are you a troll?

grabird
06-25-2010, 20:14
Calling me a "troll"... (God, you're one of THOSE people huh?)

I shouldn't waste another second on you. But on the chance that you're not stupid but just ignorant...

When flying a plane using instrument flight only, you do not rely on ANY visual reference. You are 100% dependent on instrumentation: a heading indicator (telling you which direction you're headed), altimeter (telling you your altitude), attitude indicator (whether you're level or not), radios (for communication and direction to nav aids), and turn coordinator (telling you how well you are performing a turn). Air traffic controllers simply advise you when you are off course and whether to speed up or slow down to avoid other traffic. THAT'S IT. You are TOTALLY flying blind and entirely dependent on instrumentation. (Which is WHY, during Instrument training, you are asked to wear goggles that effectively fog out all of your window views, all you can see is the instrument panel).

As part of a non-Instrument rating exam, a new pilot may also be asked to try this, just to see how they react. I know because I went through it. It requires an incredible amount of faith and trust in your instruments and the instructor/examiner (who acts as the air traffic controller). If you get that, you passed your flight test, and they're just letting you have a taste for IFR rating, your next step.

This is what killed JFK Jr., because he was not rated for it and got into nighttime total fog conditions over the ocean. He did not know HOW to rely on his instruments and put his total trust in them.

This hiker did trial tests to insure that he GPS was super accurate, and he's got a long 10' walking cane and knows how to hear 100X better than you and I, able to distinguish the sound of a trodden or clear path vs. brush, and obviously able to identify cliff edges. He's also prepared by analyzing every single FOOT of the pathway (with help) and detailing exactly where he needs to be extra cautious. He's also got a film crew with him during the more dangerous areas.

People who persue adventure understand the risk, but take measures to minimize their risk. Just like you do, I'm sure, by preparing for a hike. Just like smart motorcycles riders who take safety training and wear proper gear at all times. Just like people who climb Mt. Everest and pick the best possible teams who maintain radio contact and hire the most experienced Sherpas (like the teen kid did to achieve his 7-summits goal).

If you watched the Discovery series on Mt. Everest, you even saw an asthmatic try to reach the summit w/o oxygen, to prove to the world that it could be done. He risked DEATH. They even PASSED a guy on the way down who was DYING right there in front of them (but he was already essentially gone). The asthmatic trusted the team leader and stopped short of the summit. A second climber, a DOUBLE-AMPUTEE, made it to the summit (only to lose all his fingers and above both knees to frost-bite).

Why do people do this? Because LIFE is MEANT TO BE LIVED. It isn't safe. It isn't guaranteed. And ALL of it is RISK. (You probably don't give it a second thought when driving past me at a net of 100mph+ with just a 1/8" high line between us, but I could EASILY swerve and KILL YOU with a head on collision. THAT'S more risk that you don't give a second thought to, even though you do it several thousand times a day, than a blind hiker who has prepared extensively for his goal.)

Whatever dude. I'm sure you don't represent the majority of hikers. And I'm sure I'll never run into you on any trails. With your kind of attitude, karma will take care of you long before I'd ever need to.

BigFoot2002
06-25-2010, 20:17
All in all, just after seeing the tread title, and not reading any of the thread, I would just like to say I would prefer to hike with a talking dog and no GPS.

ChinMusic
06-25-2010, 20:31
This hiker did trial tests to insure that he GPS was super accurate, and he's got a long 10' walking cane and knows how to hear 100X better than you and I, able to distinguish the sound of a trodden or clear path vs. brush, and obviously able to identify cliff edges. He's also prepared by analyzing every single FOOT of the pathway (with help) and detailing exactly where he needs to be extra cautious. He's also got a film crew with him during the more dangerous areas.
Yes he does doesn't he?

His whole shtick is hiking the AT blind with only a GPS to prove something. It's not MY shtick. Read his site.

He is tackling a VERY difficult task but it is NOT with GPS only. I cannot imagine doing what he is doing. IMO the GPS is helpful but without the help of a sighted human or dog he could not through the difficult parts. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. A GPS, no matter how accurate, is not going to be accurate enough when a 6-inch error can kill you.

Remember it isn't the posters on WB that set up parameters. It was Mike.

Many of the posters on WB simply said the GPS was not going to be enough and that the sight of another human or dog would be needed.

Above in red you state JUST THAT.

ChinMusic
06-25-2010, 20:39
I would just like to say I would prefer to hike with a talking dog and no GPS.
Absolutely. A GPS alone is not gonna cut it. Even grabird states this.

I work with the blind through our Lions Club. I know from personal experience that the blind are utilizing GPS technology with GREAT success in urban settings. They are no longer locked into set patterns requiring great memory.

I just wish Mike would emphasise how important his crew is in getting him through, as grabird states, "dangerous areas" and that the GPS is not sufficient for these areas.

Lone Wolf
06-25-2010, 21:26
stunt hikes will always be a part of the AT. at least the views are always the same

ChinMusic
06-25-2010, 21:50
stunt hikes will always be a part of the AT. at least the views are always the same
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