View Full Version : Sleeping Bags > Feb-Mar
NakedSasquatch
10-16-2007, 13:18
Hello all,
Should be an easy question...
Would a 30 degree bag with a vapor barrier liner be warm enough going NOBO starting late Feb? I plan on tenting and am a cold sleeper. Should I go ahead and invest in a 0 degree bag or does it seem likely that I can get by without it? I am trying to do this thru as cheaply as possible and plan to rely on used/homemade gear so any solutions besides buying a new bag would be appreciated as well.
Thanks so much!
Naked
taildragger
10-16-2007, 13:29
whats the coldest its been with you being able to comfortably sleep in you're bag?
I'd think that if you're a cold sleeper that you might want something more along the lines of a 15* bag, but you might be able to pull it off with a few frigid nights.
I have a 20* bag for a March 1st start, and I think this will suffice to get me through the cold weather.
Kirby
Hello all,
Should be an easy question...
Would a 30 degree bag with a vapor barrier liner be warm enough going NOBO starting late Feb? I plan on tenting and am a cold sleeper. Should I go ahead and invest in a 0 degree bag or does it seem likely that I can get by without it? I am trying to do this thru as cheaply as possible and plan to rely on used/homemade gear so any solutions besides buying a new bag would be appreciated as well.
Thanks so much!
NakedThe question is easy; it is the answer that is impossible to provide.
The problem is not just that everyone has a different comfort level, but that all bag ratings are not the same. My 30* Western Mountaineering bag is warmer than my 20* North Face. The only way to tell if your setup is okay is to try it out.
I see you are in Maryland. The easiest way to find out is some weekend drive out to Washington County (or anywhere west in the mountains) with your present bag system and a thermometer. Sleep out when it is no warmer than 15*.
If you don't say, "Screw this!" and get back into your car and turn the heater on, or it you don't like waking up dripping wet (vapor barriers are warm, but very clammy), then buy a 10* or 15* bag.
If you are okay with spending 10-12 nights this way in order to save some cash, then don't buy anything new.
That is the only real way to tell IMO.
Really depends on the hiker, and his/her clothing system. Something to be said for an early start though is some people are more likely to have extra body fat on them at the beginning. As long as they still have a good metabolism to go with the fat they might get by with an under-rated bag, but still find the bag useful in the warmer months and not have to switch. You would want to test before you go, and it takes a few days out in cold weather to really feel the cold. Another approach to avoiding changing bags on a thru-hike might be to bring a set of wool long underwear or a wool blanket and drop them off at a thrift store when the warm weather comes.
I plan on using my 20* bag the whole way, wearing extra layers to sleep when it is cold, and wearing regular sleeping clothing and using my sleeping bag as a blanket when it is warmer.
Kirby
30-5-2??
Naked,
I'm starting in late February with a Western Mountineering Ultralight 20 degree bag, silk liner and insulated pad. I've used the combination at 15 degrees and was quite comfortable. As for the single digits that are likely, I'll just keep a spare set of dry layers / socks to change into for sleeping.
One man's comfort is another man's misery, so as others have suggested, try your gear on a few cold nights and see how it performs.
Scott
nitewalker
10-17-2007, 05:52
is the bag down or synthetic? if you have a down bag rated for 0* it will be plenty warm if you keep it dry, so i would recomend a 0 to 20 degree down bag just air it out when you have the chance so that it stays as dry as possible.....if you are using a synthetic bag i would go with the same temperature range as the down bag. the thing with the synthetic is that if it gets damp it will keep you alot warmer than a down bag would. basically you need to regulate your sleeping temp buy using an extra clothing layer if your cold and to use less clothing if it is going to be warmer, unzip bag if getting to warm.. there is nothing worse than waking up at night with the sweats in 10* weather.open the bag close the bag, open the bag close the bag you get the drift..........i used a 0* ems mtnlt last yr at the end of feb in and around the hot springs area and some nites i sweat my butt off and other nites i was just rite.......test your stuff to be sure.......peace , nitewalker
stranger
10-17-2007, 06:20
Probably not if you are a cold sleeper. I left Springer on March 2nd and it got down to about 10F one night, and in the upper 20's twice, other than that the weather was not very cold - this was also a warm year.
There seems to be a myth about wearing more clothing and whether or not this makes you warmer - common sense would say yes, but I've talked to a number of designers with sleeping bags and they all say that the less clothes you have the better, this of course means with a sleeping bag that if sufficient. I would imagine wearing something like a down jacket would help, but not sure about other items. When I've been cold in my bag no amount of clothing seemed to bridge the gap, but that's just me.
If I was leaving the end of Feb I would take a 0F bag, and I'm an average sleeper. But if you are staying in your tent, eat well that night, are hydrated, have good insulation from the ground and wear a wool hat you might be fine...who knows.
taildragger
10-17-2007, 08:19
The issue with wearing clothing would be to provide higher insulation and less air space while insulating your back as well. If your bag is tight to begin with, this will not work. However, if you have room in your bag, then the extra clothes might cut down on any drafts that could occur. I don't think wearing much more than a balaclava is any good, assuming that you have a good sleeping bag with draft tube and collar (those might be the wrong terms, what I mean is that you have a well sealed bag). The balaclava will insulate the only exposed parts of your body and possibly help the seal.
Just my .02
-Ramey
take-a-knee
10-17-2007, 08:35
Sasquatch, vapor-barrier liners don't work too well in a temperate climate. They are of more use in a high altitude, cold-dry climate, and their main benefit is the reduction of water loss, not added warmth. I would definetely spend several nights with that combo and see how well it works for you before you depend on it for a trip. Does your VBL have a zipper? If not it will be a major PITA to use.
floyd242
10-17-2007, 16:32
The simple answer is if you're a cold sleeper, a 30deg bag will not be enough for a Feb start.
gravityman
10-17-2007, 17:15
Started March 1 in 2005 and 2001. Had a 20 deg bag the first time and regretted it as there just wasn't enough warmth, even with all my clothes on. In 2005 I was smarter and started with WM Versalite (5 deg bag). Well worth it.
Plenty of people in 2001 and 2005 with the WM Ultralight bag. You will have a number of uncomfortable nights out with it, but you will live.
Gravity (and Danger) GAME2005, GAWV2001, LT2004
Can a march 1st starter get through with a 20* bag until it warms up?
Kirby
30-5-2???
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 20:02
Can a march 1st starter get through with a 20* bag until it warms up?
Kirby
30-5-2???
Is it really a twenty degree bag? Do you sleep hot or cold? Do you have a liner? What kind? How insulating is your pad? What clothes do you have to wear while sleeping? A warm hat? What sort of tent or shelter will you be using?
Kirby, you should have some cold weather this winter. The best thing you can do is to test your equipment even if it's in the back yard. I had a good 15 degree bag and a ThermaRest ProLite 4 but at that shelter in the highlands north of Damascus where the spring has a fence around it to keep the ponies out, I just about froze wearing a hat, socks, long underwear tops & bottoms, and a fleece jacket. This was in the attic of the shelter and I started March 16 and tend to sleep hot at night.
Can a march 1st starter get through with a 20* bag until it warms up?
Do you feel lucky, kid? ;) Seriously, you gotta realize it's a crap shoot. I'm guessing the answer is, "Sure, on most nights." It's those other nights you need to think about...
Is it really a twenty degree bag? Do you sleep hot or cold? Do you have a liner? What kind? How insulating is your pad? What clothes do you have to wear while sleeping? A warm hat? What sort of tent or shelter will you be using?
Kirby, you should have some cold weather this winter. The best thing you can do is to test your equipment even if it's in the back yard. I had a good 15 degree bag and a ThermaRest ProLite 4 but at that shelter in the highlands north of Damascus where the spring has a fence around it to keep the ponies out, I just about froze wearing a hat, socks, long underwear tops & bottoms, and a fleece jacket. This was in the attic of the shelter and I started March 16 and tend to sleep hot at night.
I tend to sleep better in the cold, if that answers your question, so I suppose I am a warm sleeper. For the start, I will have long underwear, tops and bottoms, gloves, hat, I kight buy a sleeping bag liner for the start, does not hurt. I have a therma rest ridge runner sleeping pad.
Kirby
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 20:36
I tend to sleep better in the cold, if that answers your question, so I suppose I am a warm sleeper. For the start, I will have long underwear, tops and bottoms, gloves, hat, I kight buy a sleeping bag liner for the start, does not hurt. I have a therma rest ridge runner sleeping pad.
Kirby
What kind of bag is it? If it is a brand that doesn't exagerate the rating you'll be safe even if you have a couple of chilly nights. You can always wear every dry article of clothing you have and if you are in a shelter, use your tent or tarp as a cover on top of your bag. Probably unless you have a zero degree bag you may be chilly a couple of nights regardless.
Long underwear is more useful than a liner because a liner is good only for lining your bag. Starting March 1 you should probably have some pretty heavy long underwear instead of silkweight.
Eating a lot of food before you go to bed helps keep you warm, too, and I liked those little disposable handwarmers as a treat on a cold night, or a nalgene full of hot water if you carry a nalgene. Probably the hat is the most important, even in the summer I put my hat on in the middle of the night a lot.
Best thing to do is try it out in December!
What kind of bag is it? If it is a brand that doesn't exagerate the rating you'll be safe even if you have a couple of chilly nights. You can always wear every dry article of clothing you have and if you are in a shelter, use your tent or tarp as a cover on top of your bag. Probably unless you have a zero degree bag you may be chilly a couple of nights regardless.
Long underwear is more useful than a liner because a liner is good only for lining your bag. Starting March 1 you should probably have some pretty heavy long underwear instead of silkweight.
Eating a lot of food before you go to bed helps keep you warm, too, and I liked those little disposable handwarmers as a treat on a cold night, or a nalgene full of hot water if you carry a nalgene. Probably the hat is the most important, even in the summer I put my hat on in the middle of the night a lot.
Best thing to do is try it out in December!
My sleeping bag is an EMS 20* mountain light.
Kirby
30-5-2???
Blissful
10-17-2007, 22:00
A silk sleeping bag liner is a smart idea. Paul Bunyan used his when it got in the teens (and it will get that cold). He had a 20 degree NF Cats meow. And wear your hat, even with the hood of the bag. A tent also keeps you warmer.
saimyoji
10-17-2007, 22:08
As for the liner, try it out at home before you go (like you should with all your gear). Some people hate liners getting all twisted and screwy inside the bag. YMMV.
I'd bring a silk base layer instead of a silk liner.
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 23:28
My sleeping bag is an EMS 20* mountain light.
Kirby
30-5-2???
Multiple reviews on their website for that bag indicate that the temperature rating is not exagerated and none say that it is.
I would probably take it and use various methods of extending its range. If the weather forecast when you start shows an extended period of temperatures significantly below that, you can get something else at the last minute.
Looks like a very nice bag indeed.
Multiple reviews on their website for that bag indicate that the temperature rating is not exagerated and none say that it is.
I would probably take it and use various methods of extending its range. If the weather forecast when you start shows an extended period of temperatures significantly below that, you can get something else at the last minute.
Looks like a very nice bag indeed.
I have been pleased with its performace, and I did not want to go any lower because I am on a tight budget and do not want to buy another sleeping bag for warmer weather, I will just use that as a blanket if it is really warm out.
Kirby
nitewalker
10-18-2007, 07:06
i sweat my a$$ of with my ems mtn lt 0*down bag last feb early march. i was around the area of standing bear farm, hot springs, fontana area....we also had good weather that 2 week stretch...velocity 5* bag is a nice bag...
The EMS bag looks like a good deal for $160.
nitewalker
10-18-2007, 07:20
i love the ems 0 so i belive you will like your 20...just keep it dry and try to air it out in the sun when you get a chance..
Back to the bag liner idea for a second -
1) How do you sleep in them w/o getting all twisted up?
2) How much warmth do they add, silk seems so thin, etc.?
I'm also looking for lightweight add-on for March cold snaps.
I know people use these - what do you say?
The vapor barrier liners do work well at altitude and serve their purpose. I've never been able to tell a difference with the silk bag liners other than they keep the bag a bit cleaner.
I always got twisted up in them, especially with the silk liner so I ditched it.
NakedSasquatch
10-18-2007, 10:39
Just wanted to say thank you for all of your input. I think I'm gonna go ahead and get a lower rating bag (15 degree probably) then test it out to double check on needing some sort of liner. I hate to spend the money, but I'm also not a huge fan of being chilly. Better safe than sorry I guess.
Yeah, the silk liner does tend to get a bit twisty if you move around alot (especially in a tight bag like the Ultralight). I just unwind myself and go back to sleep if it becomes an issue.
I purchased it more to keep the bag clean, but it does seem to add a few degrees to the rating. I've used the liner by itself at 55 - 60 degrees a few times.
WILKEBEAST
10-18-2007, 18:26
keep in mind also that if your sleeping in your tent with everything zipped up tight, it will keep some of the warmth too.
also heres a tip- keep an eye on the temperatures when getting to new england, there was some nights in vermont where i wished i would have had my winter bag but wasn't getting it back until hanover. 1 night in particular at lookout cabin there was 3-4 of us who were not sleeping very well.:eek:
Appalachian Tater
10-18-2007, 19:13
Glencliff is the "traditional" place to get your winter bag back but I guess it depends upon what time of the year you get there. If you're after the main lump you may need it earlier.
A lot of people make the mistake of getting rid of it too early in the south. I kept mine until Harper's Ferry and was glad I did. It's easier to deal with being too hot than too cold.
I liked those little disposable handwarmers as a treat on a cold night, or a nalgene full of hot water if you carry a nalgene. Best thing to do is try it out in December! The footwarmers work very well for sleeping. They have sticky tape and fasten to your socks. Warm feet make a big difference.
A Nalgene works great, but Gator Ade bottles leak if you put hot water in them.
Best thing to do is try it out in December! There are so many variables involved that this is really the only way to tell if your sleep system will work. I see you live in Maine, Kirby. Just spend the night out when low temp will be in the low to mid-teens. You'll have an answer to your question by morning. (If you plan on using a liner, drink lots of water before going to bed, so you can test how much fun it is getting into and out of it in hte middle of the night. Trial runs and gear tests before leaving make things easier when in the woods.)
The footwarmers work very well for sleeping. They have sticky tape and fasten to your socks. Warm feet make a big difference.
A Nalgene works great, but Gator Ade bottles leak if you put hot water in them.
There are so many variables involved that this is really the only way to tell if your sleep system will work. I see you live in Maine, Kirby. Just spend the night out when low temp will be in the low to mid-teens. You'll have an answer to your question by morning. (If you plan on using a liner, drink lots of water before going to bed, so you can test how much fun it is getting into and out of it in hte middle of the night. Trial runs and gear tests before leaving make things easier when in the woods.)
Good advice, if and when winter rolls around in this part of the state I will put my sleeping bag to the test.
Kirby
If and when. I wish I still had that attitude.
saimyoji
10-19-2007, 07:54
I was checking my MountainHardwear bags last night and noticed that it has little loops for the upgrade liner both at the shoulder and foot, in addition at the hip. Something like this could seriously reduce the twisty aspect. Consider adding a loop or two if yours doesn't already have them?
Nah, those little loops just rip out of the bag, and possibly the bag, or rip out of the liner.
saimyoji
10-19-2007, 09:09
Nah, those little loops just rip out of the bag, and possibly the bag, or rip out of the liner.
Have you had that happen? What maker of bag?
Feathered Friends Widgeon and one of their VB liners, it was all was sewn very well. I got twisted up in the middle of the night after I had too much to drink and ripped the VB liner down the side and then loop out of the bag. It was no fault of Feathered Friends, just a matter of torque.
maxNcathy
11-03-2007, 20:40
To be warmer in 30F bag sleep with a down vest in foot of bag and another on your torso...if you have them handy already or can borrow some.
For me to leave in early to mid Feb I would take 0F rated down bag or at least 10F with vests as above.
Survivor Dave
11-03-2007, 21:09
Don't mean to change the direct subject, but I have a 25* MontBell UL 800 down bag and will be leaving mid March. I have tried it in 35 degrees and baked in it pretty much. It will be in the upper 20's in Atlanta mid week and will try it then as well. My preference of sleeping arrangements is my tent. I have found it to be more peaceful and warmer than the shelters.
Do y'all think with a bit of proper layering, I'll have enough bag? I really like it and spent a good bit. I just don't want to spend an additional $55 for a 15* or worse $115 for the 0*. The outfitter will take it back and refund or swap up. They are flexible.
I posted the link below for specs if you are interested.
http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=28&p_id=1121726
The coldest day we saw in 07 was 8 degrees fahrenheit, on April 7th in the Smoky Mtns. I stayed warm in a 10 degree Western Mounteering down bag.
Don't underestimate the southern mountains.
Granted, I started in January, but I was expecting 10 degree nights. What I wasn't expecting was 10 degree days and -10 degree nights, which is what I got. Every year is different, and being up at 5000 feet can make a big difference.
If you are expecting the coldest nights to be 20 degrees, plan on one or two 0-10 degre nights. If that happened, how would you cope? Make a plan for yourself, and if possible, take a 3-4 day trip to test it, because your body's internal heater works very differently after 3 days out in the woods.
The bottom line is, any sleeping bag is warmer when you have someone to share it with :-D
I am looking at an REI bag --anyone have experience with whether they exagerate their ratings?
My REI 10* Bag really didn't work well at 10* without a silk liner. It was the down Mojave.