View Full Version : bear spray
since I cant take a gun...this is my only choice...what brand and what size do you recommend? also a belt holder or a chest strap...thanks in advance...Garth
sweetpeastu
10-17-2007, 16:19
ummm..you could take a gun, you just better not show it off to anybody :)
Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 16:26
bear spray is as useless as tits on a bull
warraghiyagey
10-17-2007, 16:28
bear spray is as useless as tits on a bull
That wan't a tit? Damn. . .:o
would muratic acid in a spray bottle work?????:p
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 16:35
There may be some restrictions on pepper spray in New York and Massachusetts. Besides, if a bear attacks you, do you really want to piss it off even more? You should worry more about ticks.
JoeHiker
10-17-2007, 16:40
Bear Spray should be a last resort but it is not useless.
Personally, if I were going to carry some I would opt in favor of a larger size, rather than a smaller. You miss once and run out and you'll wish you had more.
Bears tend to make "fake" charges and if you were to use bear spray in this situation, you would have as good a chance as not aiming as well and pissing it off, causing more problems than if you had just not had the spray in the first place. You might anger a bear that otherwise would have left you alone.
Having said all that, I'd rather have it available and not use it than not have it.
In Mass, you need a special version of a firearms license to carry bear spray. I don't know about New York.
Black bears are usually shy animals, except maybe a sow with her cub(s). If you're lucky you might see a bear. If you're even luckier it might stay in sight long enough for you to get 1 or 2 pictures.
dessertrat
10-17-2007, 17:52
Given the recent PA attack, I expect more people will be carrying it. I favor it, because 1) real life studies and surveys show that it works (contrary to the anecdotal "what ifs" of internet forums), and 2) you can use it on people too, who are far more likely to cause problems for a hiker than a bear.
It also encourages people to stay in one spot during a fake charge, which might be more important than whether you hit the bear with it. As for "just making the bear angry" none of the research bears that out, pardon the pun.
EAnderson
10-17-2007, 18:00
Save a bear, spray a boyscout. (my apologizes to all offended scouts who did not have candy bars in their tents in PA last week)
Seriously, I wouldn't go hiking in Alaska or Montana without it, but there is no need for it in the Eastern US. Most bears avoid people and run off, or can be run off from a campsite with a good pot or whistle. Studies have been shown that it is not as effective with black bears as with brown bears, and as App Tater and Joehiker said, you are more likely to piss it off, and turn a manageable situation into one where a bear is put down for no fault of its own.
If you do take some, learn to use it! My wife and I got married in Yosemite last year, and after the wedding a ranger told of us a tourist the day before who had a canister in his pocket even though he was not hiking and just driving around to different overlooks. He sat down at Glacier Point and managed to spray himself in the groin. They took him into the back of the gift shop and tried to wash and ice him down. The ranger said it was the most fun they had in weeks!
Jack Tarlin
10-17-2007, 18:07
I agree that most hikers don't feel the need for bear spray on the A.T.
And it is very true that people frequently manage to spray themselves or other people.
So to Garth's original question as to what brand and size I'd reccomend....
I reccomend that Garth read up on how to travel and behave wisely in black bear country, and that he should leave the bear spray at home.
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 18:15
Given the recent PA attack, I expect more people will be carrying it. I favor it, because 1) real life studies and surveys show that it works (contrary to the anecdotal "what ifs" of internet forums), and 2) you can use it on people too, who are far more likely to cause problems for a hiker than a bear.
It also encourages people to stay in one spot during a fake charge, which might be more important than whether you hit the bear with it. As for "just making the bear angry" none of the research bears that out, pardon the pun.
I stopped to watch a deer I heard moving in the brush and instead saw a bear gallumping down the side of a hill straight at me, not on purpose, but on a direct collision course regardless. Like a superfast furry bouncing bulldozer headed at me. He was probably scared to see me in his path as well. I ran because that's what my instincts said to do and it worked very well. If I had fumbled for bear spray he would have knocked me down.
The other five or six times I saw bears they were frightened and ran from me except for one who just watched from about forty or fifty feet away. None of those times did I feel threatened in any way. (I was a lttle leary of the one who didn't run away.)
Even in this Pennsylvania attack, the bear wasn't after the boy, he was after the candy bars. You think if he had had bear spray he could have found it and used it? What would have happened then? What if someone else there had sprayed the bear? I just wouldn't want to risk exacerbating the situation.
If you're worried about bears on the A.T., follow the rules and use bear cables, bear boxes, or hang your food from a tree.
I would also think the same thing about a person on the trail. After you use the spray, assuming you hit them, what are you going to do then? What if you miss? How do you think they will react either way?
You're better off carrying DEET and using it religiously to prevent tick-borne disease if you look at the odds of occurence and potential physical damage.
I agree with not taking bear spray. Not only because it may piss of the bear, but because it may make you take chances and get lazy when you shouldn't. The best bear deterrant is common sense and good judgement.
I saw a post saying that if you sprayed a bear that was doing a bluff charge, you may make it mad and it will really attack. How would you go about telling the difference between a bluff charge and a real one? Just curious.
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 18:33
I agree with not taking bear spray. Not only because it may piss of the bear, but because it may make you take chances and get lazy when you shouldn't. The best bear deterrant is common sense and good judgement.
I saw a post saying that if you sprayed a bear that was doing a bluff charge, you may make it mad and it will really attack. How would you go about telling the difference between a bluff charge and a real one? Just curious.
In a bluff charge, the bear stops a few feet in front of you, rears up on his hind legs, raises his paw, and thumbs his nose at you.
Would a black bear bluff even be close enough for one of those bear spray cans?
I have a much different opinion of black bears since seeing the Alaskan footage following the guy downstream.
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 18:40
Well, since you said "downstream", there's the whole issue of wind. Spray that stuff and the wind is blowing in not exactly the right direction or if it changes and you just sprayed yourself plus you still have a bear problem. LOL.
Hell, if your were struggling in a tent with a big bear just like in the cartoons and you had a pistol and managed to get to it and aim and fire it, how many times would you porbably have to shoot it to kill it?
Well, since you said "downstream", there's the whole issue of wind. Spray that stuff and the wind is blowing in not exactly the right direction or if it changes and you just sprayed yourself plus you still have a bear problem. LOL.
Hell, if your were struggling in a tent with a big bear just like in the cartoons and you had a pistol and managed to get to it and aim and fire it, how many times would you porbably have to shoot it to kill it?
I will just stick with what I know. If a bear gets ahold of me I will try to go for the eyes. Predators can't afford to lose their eyes, and will back off if they are at risk. Too many ifs with the spray and handgun.
Maybe they should make a spray that tastes really bitter and horrible. That way if you are about to be attacked, just spray yourself. Since with bear spray you stand a good chance of spraying yourself anyways, just go ahead and do it on purpose.
Appalachian Tater
10-17-2007, 18:52
I will just stick with what I know. If a bear gets ahold of me I will try to go for the eyes. Predators can't afford to lose their eyes, and will back off if they are at risk. Too many ifs with the spray and handgun.
Maybe they should make a spray that tastes really bitter and horrible. That way if you are about to be attacked, just spray yourself. Since with bear spray you stand a good chance of spraying yourself anyways, just go ahead and do it on purpose.
That's not a bad idea. Especially if it were a smell that is so foul to bears that it would stop one in the middle of an attack.
That's not a bad idea. Especially if it were a smell that is so foul to bears that it would stop one in the middle of an attack.
Maybe there is no such thing as a bluff attack. The bear was really attacking someone when they crapped their pants, and the smell drove the bear away!
I am not sure a foul enough odor exists to gross out a bear.
Surly you chaff.
From what I read on the back of the cannister, you are supposed to spray at the bear to create a nasty smelling cloud between you and the bear.
Not that I actually had an opportunity to try it on anything.
Having the spray made my son (11) feel better about backpacking in bear country for the first time (here in the east). Now, 4 years later, he doesn't feel as threatened so we don't bring it.
I think I would probably bring it out west, but only as a "just in case." Those bears don't seem to be timid.
Last year, waiting for a bus in Bethlehem PA, I had a hobo tell me what he had been told as a kid: bring a little ammonia along in the woods. The idea being the smell would mess with a bear's sense of smell and cause it to quickly exit the area in which it was detected.
I doubt I would try it but he said they did and it worked one night when a bear came into their camp.
On another issue, the fake charge, my experience is the bear will slam on the brakes, shake it's head, grunt and slobber. Another charge or two may follow. Both parties may smell bad after this.
Lone Wolf
10-17-2007, 20:43
ummm..you could take a gun, you just better not show it off to anybody :)
Glock 29 subcompact 10MM is a great weapon. **** bear spray
U all are great!!! If my S&W 500 did not weight so much I would bring it...I am not getting it for only the AT...but hikes in the smokies too....If you have ever lived in Gatlinburg Like I have for 7 years you would know that those bears are not afraid of people at all...I was a firefighter there for 3 years and one day a 300-450 lb bear walked into our station and up to our kitchen door. You have never seen a group of guys run any faster...lol...
EAnderson
10-17-2007, 22:44
U all are great!!! If my S&W 500 did not weight so much I would bring it...I am not getting it for only the AT...but hikes in the smokies too....If you have ever lived in Gatlinburg Like I have for 7 years you would know that those bears are not afraid of people at all...I was a firefighter there for 3 years and one day a 300-450 lb bear walked into our station and up to our kitchen door. You have never seen a group of guys run any faster...lol...
I hike almost every weekend in the Smokies, and have had a few close encounters. I have only run across 4 bears on trails in the last 4-5 years(none on the AT), and every one has run away as soon as they heard or saw us. The only scary moment was when one Yogi decided to join me for breakfast outside my campsite at Walnut Bottoms. It took a very loud whistle to run him off, but he didn't get my food bag!
I think there are bears in the park that have lost their fear of humans, and alot of those are the ones that go into backcountry campsites looking for food or leave the park and go into town to find easy town food. But I've never worried about bears that I've seen on trails. Mice bother me alot more than the bears do!