PDA

View Full Version : Shelter Use Rules



Coogen
10-18-2007, 10:04
I wanted to know what are the rules/ediquette to using shelters (i.e. if you need to stop and a shelter is being partially/fully occupied) or if its first come first serve.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 10:09
I wanted to know what are the rules/ediquette to using shelters (i.e. if you need to stop and a shelter is being partially/fully occupied) or if its first come first serve.

first come, first served

Rain Man
10-18-2007, 10:13
I wanted to know what are the rules/ediquette to using shelters (i.e. if you need to stop and a shelter is being partially/fully occupied) or if its first come first serve.

Do you mean to ask if there's a "check out" time for folks who stayed the night before?

Otherwise, not sure what you are asking.

Rain:sunMan

.

rafe
10-18-2007, 10:17
In general, first come first served. There's also the notion of "always room for one more in a storm" -- but that depends on the good will of all concerned, and obviously has its limits.

Coogen
10-18-2007, 10:19
What im asking about is general use of the shelters. For example, are you required to share the shelter with other hikers if your the first to occupy it? Is there an unofficial time you have to leave it? I don't think there is a handbook on the subject but I wanted to know generally what people usually do.

rafe
10-18-2007, 10:29
What im asking about is general use of the shelters. For example, are you required to share the shelter with other hikers if your the first to occupy it?

You share it up until the shelter is "full." You can't arrive early at an 8-person shelter and claim it for yourself. The definition of "full" gets a bit hazy. Most shelters are rated for a certain # of occupants. Six or eight is typical though there are many exceptions, both larger and smaller.


Is there an unofficial time you have to leave it? I don't think there is a handbook on the subject but I wanted to know generally what people usually do.

No official checkout time, this isn't a motel. It's generally understood that shelters are to be used for a single night. They're not to be used by vagrants and homeless people, at least that's the idea.

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 10:29
I believe that first come, first served "rule" only entitles you to one spot in the shelter. So yes, you should share the rest of the shelter even if you got there first. I've never seen a "check out" time in a shelter, but I have seen rules posted about length of stay. For example, I think the huts in the SNP are limited to one night's stay.

Manach
10-18-2007, 10:37
It's generally understood that shelters are to be used for a single night.

An exception to this might be if someone is ill or injured, am I right? That is, if the illness or injury requires some rest but is not significant enough to put the hiker off the trail, or if there's no town near the shelter.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

rafe
10-18-2007, 10:40
An exception to this might be if someone is ill or injured, am I right? That is, if the illness or injury requires some rest but is not significant enough to put the hiker off the trail, or if there's no town near the shelter.

I'd agree, within reason. But that's just me. At a certain point though, regardless of the severity of the illness or injury, the ill/injured hiker is expected to move on. If it's a condition that's not going to improve in 48 hours, get thee off the trail and seek proper medical attention.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 10:45
Shelter Rules:


#1 - The first rule of the Shelter is, you do not stay at the Shelter.
#2 - The second rule of the Shelter is, you DO NOT stay at the Shelter.
#3 - If someone shows up the the shelter and there is space, is already at the shelter, or has a reservation for the shelter - they get to sleep in the shelter.
#4 - Shelter capacity is shelter capacity.
#5 - No saving spaces for others.
#6 - Bring your own shelter in case you can't stay at a shelter.
#7 - People staying in the shelter sleep as long as they have to.
#8 - If this is your first night at a Shelter, you won't get a good night's sleep.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 10:46
I wanted to know what are the rules/ediquette to using shelters (i.e. if you need to stop and a shelter is being partially/fully occupied) or if its first come first serve.

1) Groups of 5+ should camp in their entirety, whether informal/private or some "official"/public group, even if the shelter is large and empty, the weather stinks, it's dark, and someone's pinkie toe has an "owie". (Note that the Smokies, Baxter, and a couple of Northern states have special regulations on camping/shelter stays, and these have precedence.)

2) No smoking inside the shelter or near the front of it (yes, the overhang is part of the front) or other spot where there is any chance the fumes will be detectable inside the shelter.

3) No use or display of illegal substances in a shelter.

4) Dogs may not ever enter a shelter, even if empty and the weather is inclement. They should not be brought within 50' of shelter, excepting only if the Trail passes closer than that, in which case the owner should pass on by with the dog without pausing until over 50' away.

5) Cooking should be done outside the shelter as a rule, certainly during dry weather. Ideally, cooking will be done outside the shelter at all times, but if the shelter is nowhere near capacity and the weather is very wet/cold, this is commonly winked at.

6) No person is entitled to more room in a shelter than the fraction they would take up if the shelter were filled to capacity. Thus, if two people have spread out to fill a 5-man shelter, and a third, unassociated person shows up, they are required to immediately move over without being asked. They have zero right to say that the shelter is "full".

7) No one may claim space in a shelter for people who have not yet arrived. There are cases of a single person racing on ahead of a group to claim it for that group, attempting to turn away lone hikers who come along in the meantime. Such claim-attempters are to be freely ignored, as they can only claim a space for themselves.

8) Snoring and flatulence are part of life in a shelter, and are involuntary behaviors. If those bother you, you acquire no right to tell someone doing them to cease; instead, you should tent in the future.

9) Do not set up a tent inside a shelter that is remotely near capacity or can be expected to become so), no matter how extreme the biting insects are. Instead, bring insect netting that takes up no more than the usual amount of floor space, or set up a tent outside the shelter.

10) If you are going to change clothes, it is considered standard courtesy either/or to cover yourself with bedding/rain gear first, or to give warning, especially if children/members of the opposite sex are present. That said, getting out of wet clothing in a hurry during hypothermic weather takes priority over the sensitivities of other adults.

11) Do not leave trash in a shelter. Pack out what you brought in. Allowable exceptions IMO include INTACT magazines and books (political or religious tracts are not magazines), dry burnable newspapers, and perhaps new minor gear items that are not mouse-attractors. (It's really best not to leave food behind, although things like power bars properly-hung vs. mice are the most forgiveable.)

12) Do not leave behind anything in a fire pit besides ashes. Retrieve any foil, glass, metal, etc., that you put in there and pack it out. Do NOT bury anything near a shelter (anywhere on the AT, but especially not near a shelter). Don't try to burn food in a fire. If you are going to burn plastic, make sure the wind is not towards the shelter. (Paper/cardboard, NP.) If the fire pit is at all near the shelter, ask other current shelter occupants if they mind before building a fire.

13) Write in the register your trail name, date of arrival at the shelter, and any safety issues worth mentioning to other hikers (bear sightings, possibly dangerous people, high water neccessitating reroutes, trail collapses/landslides, unclear trail junctions, new reroutes, etc.). Shelter registers are safety equipment-- use them.

14) Likewise, avoid/limit use of profanity, sexual subjects, encouraging illegal behavior, etc. in register entries. Children read them, too.

15) When awake or up and about when it is dark out, try to limit A) noise (especially talking/electronics) and B) directing lights where sleepers may be bothered by them. If your headlamp has a lower/red setting, use it if at all possible after dark if not alone in the shelter. That said, people sleeping in a shelter do NOT have the right to expect early risers to wait until daylight to pack or leave, nor to expect late arrivals to tent.

16) Thruhikers do NOT have priority over section-hikers, nor SHs over weekenders in shelter use. (A thru may not show up late and boot a weekender out of a shelter, say.) That said, someone who is camping under a mile from their vehicle should as a matter of courtesy not deny long-distance hikers use of shelter space by using it during heavy-use season.

17) If you show up at a shelter when you are not carrying a shelter (tent/tarp/hammock) of your own, you do NOT have any right to ask/tell anyone in the shelter who DOES have a personal shelter to get out of the shelter and go tent, to make room for you, no matter the weather. Instead, you should learn the lesson that you should ALWAYS carry a personal shelter when you overnight on the AT, NEVER counting on finding shelter space.

I could say more, but want to leave SOME parts for other members to post about. :D

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 10:47
18) Shelters suck

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 10:52
18) Shelters suck

Even when there's snow and slush everywhere (with more coming down), there's a 25+ MPH wind, it's after dark, and there's no good place to put up a tent? I'd say even a below-average shelter would look pretty good about then...

So, LW, how many of my rules did you agree with?

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 10:54
Shelters suck even then.

rafe
10-18-2007, 10:55
MS: Seventeen rules? Moses only needed ten. :rolleyes:

Control freak, or what?

I must read and sign into the shelter register? Wha????

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 10:55
If you decide to stay in a shelter, be sure to learn the rules of Fart Baseball. Whatever you do, do NOT sit behind home plate. :eek:

Hog On Ice is the Commission if you have any questions.

Midway Sam
10-18-2007, 10:56
#8 - If this is your first night at a Shelter, you won't get a good night's sleep.

And there are exceptions to every rule. I had one of my best nights of sleep ever my first time in a shelter. Since then I have experienced some miserable shelter nights, however.

Flush2wice
10-18-2007, 11:00
Thats a good list MNSmith. The only one I disagree with is:

11) Do not leave trash in a shelter. Pack out what you brought in. Allowable exceptions IMO include INTACT magazines and books (political or religious tracts are not magazines), dry burnable newspapers, and perhaps new minor gear items that are not mouse-attractors. (It's really best not to leave food behind, although things like power bars properly-hung vs. mice are the most forgiveable.)
Don't leave anything. If you want to read bring it yourself. If you want firestarter bring it yourself. I hate seing a bunch of junk in a shelter.
The worst thing to ever leave in a shelter is a trash bag.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:03
1) Groups of 5+ should camp in their entirety, whether informal/private or some "official"/public group, even if the shelter is large and empty, the weather stinks, it's dark, and someone's pinkie toe has an "owie". (Note that the Smokies, Baxter, and a couple of Northern states have special regulations on camping/shelter stays, and these have precedence.)

2) No smoking inside the shelter or near the front of it (yes, the overhang is part of the front) or other spot where there is any chance the fumes will be detectable inside the shelter.
How about peeing outside the front of the shelter?


5) Cooking should be done outside the shelter as a rule, certainly during dry weather. Ideally, cooking will be done outside the shelter at all times, but if the shelter is nowhere near capacity and the weather is very wet/cold, this is commonly winked at.
That must be why they put all those benches and tables in shelters now.


7) No one may claim space in a shelter for people who have not yet arrived. There are cases of a single person racing on ahead of a group to claim it for that group, attempting to turn away lone hikers who come along in the meantime. Such claim-attempters are to be freely ignored, as they can only claim a space for themselves.
How about my imaginary friend?


8) Snoring and flatulence are part of life in a shelter, and are involuntary behaviors. If those bother you, you acquire no right to tell someone doing them to cease; instead, you should tent in the future.
If you want everyone that has a bad habit to stay away from shelters, then why would someone that knows they snore loud get a pass? Seems if someone knows they sound like a chainsaw they should be just as considerate as the smoker or the guy with the cell phone, dog, or whatever else you want to exclude. Let me guss, you snore don't you?


9) Do not set up a tent inside a shelter that is remotely near capacity or can be expected to become so), no matter how extreme the biting insects are. Instead, bring insect netting that takes up no more than the usual amount of floor space, or set up a tent outside the shelter.
Actually you should never put a tent in a shelter. If you have a tent, then stay in it - not the shelter.


10) If you are going to change clothes, it is considered standard courtesy either/or to cover yourself with bedding/rain gear first, or to give warning, especially if children/members of the opposite sex are present. That said, getting out of wet clothing in a hurry during hypothermic weather takes priority over the sensitivities of other adults.
My imaginary friend does this where ever and when ever he wants too. He is a real jerk BTW.

13) Write in the register your trail name, date of arrival at the shelter, and any safety issues worth mentioning to other hikers (bear sightings, possibly dangerous people, high water neccessitating reroutes, trail collapses/landslides, unclear trail junctions, new reroutes, etc.). Shelter registers are safety equipment-- use them.
I don't want people to know where I am, so I let my imaginary friend do that. He doesn't care.


14) Likewise, avoid/limit use of profanity, sexual subjects, encouraging illegal behavior, etc. in register entries. Children read them, too.
How about sexist comments?


15) When awake or up and about when it is dark out, try to limit A) noise (especially talking/electronics) and B) directing lights where sleepers may be bothered by them. If your headlamp has a lower/red setting, use it if at all possible after dark if not alone in the shelter. That said, people sleeping in a shelter do NOT have the right to expect early risers to wait until daylight to pack or leave, nor to expect late arrivals to tent.
Let me guess, you were an early riser. Seems like another dual standard - guys coming in late need to be quiet but getting up early is OK


16) Thruhikers do NOT have priority over section-hikers, nor SHs over weekenders in shelter use. (A thru may not show up late and boot a weekender out of a shelter, say.) That said, someone who is camping under a mile from their vehicle should as a matter of courtesy not deny long-distance hikers use of shelter space by using it during heavy-use season.

Yes they should. Teaches them to be self sufficient. After all they are a mighty THRU-HIKER!

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 11:06
thru-hikers should never use shelters

Pedaling Fool
10-18-2007, 11:12
GSMNP has the same rules for shelters, with some exceptions, particularily the reservation policy, which requires thru-hikers to get out of the shelter if it's filled by people with reservations, regardless of the first-come-first-served policy.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 11:21
1) Actually, I tended to be a late arrival and a late leaver.

2) Snoring is INVOLUNTARY. Smoking and use of other recreational chemicals are chosen behaviors, easily enough delayed until not inside a shelter (or until after the hiking trip, for that matter). I snored early on during my thru last year, but after a couple of months, largely stopped getting complaints. Apparently, I lost enough weight and improved my physical conditioning enough that it largely went away.

Anyway, I've long felt that if something like someone else's snoring is preventing me from sleeping, that I didn't hike enough trail that day. Easily remedied in the future...

3) Yeah, I've urinated from the front of a shelter before, but it wasn't something I wanted to do. The famous case of this you are obviously referring to involved my not managing to get out of my bedding in time to get any further. Had I been able to, I would have walked outside the shelter and around the side/back to be out of site and away from the immediate shelter area, as I did >>99% of the time during my thru.

4) Oh, and if someone lies about you or gratuitiously insults you in a register, there's no requirement to turn the other cheek IMO. Turning the other cheek is hardly the motto of the U.S. mil, is it? ;) Plus, I thought that truth was adequate defense against libel, e.g., pointing out that men have created (and continue to create) the vast majority of scientific and artistic creations worth much of anything is true, and a refutation of the words of some young broad saying men are all dumb.:rolleyes:

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:30
2) Snoring is INVOLUNTARY. Smoking and use of other recreational chemicals are chosen behaviors, easily enough delayed until not inside a shelter (or until after the hiking trip, for that matter). I snored early on during my thru last year, but after a couple of months, largely stopped getting complaints. Apparently, I lost enough weight and improved my physical conditioning enough that it largely went away.

It may be involuntary, but if you know you do it, then why not require that person to be as considerate as all the other things that annoy you? Again, it really seems like you have a dual standard. Really, it does. Really.

So apparently you are a snorer, hence the dual standard. So if I know I have drug resistant TB I can still stay in a shelter because I cannot stop having it voluntarily?

4) Oh, and if someone lies about you or gratuitiously insults you in a register, there's no requirement to turn the other cheek IMO. Turning the other cheek is hardly the motto of the U.S. mil, is it? ;) Plus, I thought that truth was adequate defense against libel, e.g., pointing out that men have created (and continue to create) the vast majority of scientific and artistic creations worth much of anything is true, and a refutation of the words of some young broad saying men are all dumb.:rolleyes:Last I checked you aren't, nor have you ever been in the military so I don't know where that came from. Last I looked a shelter register wasn't a battlefield or barracks either.

So it is OK to offend everyone in your opinion if it suits your methodology, but if it doesn't it is unacceptable. Got it. :rolleyes:

FatMan
10-18-2007, 11:36
I just love the laundry list of so called shelter rules posted in the thread. The truth is there is only one rule for shelters:

1. There are no rules!

The best one can hope for is common courtesy. And you will receive common courtesy from better than 95% of those you will run into on the trail. But unfortunately there are the other 5% of buttheads that will make your shelter experiences horrible. And on occasion, these buttheads are thru-hikers that believe they are holier than thou. There is no rule book for you to pull out of your pocket to show them they are buttheads, so either get used to dealing with them or move on. I for one deal with enough buttheads in my off-trail life so I simply choose to not stay in shelters. As others have said...Shelters Suck!

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:37
See rule #1 and #2

rafe
10-18-2007, 11:44
Hike southbound, off-season, and mid-week. (heh.) No problems. You'll have the shelters to yourself.

Interesting that the folks who say, "Shelters Suck" are so well-versed on the shelter "rules." :rolleyes:

Or do we need "rules" because we've lost sight of common courtesy?

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:45
Yes, yes we have. I reckon though, if it were so COMMON we wouldn't be having this thread.

Refer to rule #1 and #2

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 11:45
MS, younever cease to amaze. :rolleyes:

There are no shelter rules, per se, unless posted by the land management agency who has jurisdiction where the shelter is located.

There are courtesies, which should be extended to other hikers deserving of such niceties. That is about 99% of the hiking population.

The most important courtesies IMO are to not allow your stuff to spread out so other hikers can't use the shelter. Keeping food particulate matter out of the shelter. Keeping your flashlight shine out of others eyes. If you arrive late or depart early, keep your noise to a minimum - or preferably - set up a tent outside of the shelter.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:46
#1 - The first rule of the Shelter is, you do not stay at the Shelter.
#2 - The second rule of the Shelter is, you DO NOT stay at the Shelter.
#3 - If someone shows up the the shelter and there is space, is already at the shelter, or has a reservation for the shelter - they get to sleep in the shelter.
#4 - Shelter capacity is shelter capacity.
#5 - No saving spaces for others.
#6 - Bring your own shelter in case you can't stay at a shelter.
#7 - People staying in the shelter sleep as long as they have to.
#8 - If this is your first night at a Shelter, you won't get a good night's sleep.

sherrill
10-18-2007, 11:48
If you are going to burn plastic, make sure the wind is not towards the shelter

I don't see any reason to burn plastic, period.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:49
So you won't have to carry it - and it makes cool smoke.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 11:50
I don't see any reason to burn plastic, period.

wood ONLY. period

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 11:51
Or paper ;)

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 11:51
I don't see any reason to burn plastic, period.

Reduces weight and space in pack, can generally be burned to ashes (and I said to haul out what isn't), and is just going to be landfilled if you haul it back home. (I read that 85% of plastics specifically collected for recycling end up gettin landfilled.)

Old Grouse
10-18-2007, 11:59
My wife burns plastic every time she goes to Bloomingdales!

sherrill
10-18-2007, 12:05
Reduces weight and space in pack, can generally be burned to ashes (and I said to haul out what isn't), and is just going to be landfilled if you haul it back home. (I read that 85% of plastics specifically collected for recycling end up gettin landfilled.)

That's a good argument but I still don't agree with burning plastic. I side with LW, just burn wood.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 12:05
It reduces the bear-attractant properties of the trash you're carrying, presuming it was food-containing plastic you burned.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 12:12
And don't drive or hitch. That burns makes the same fumes - but uses a larger amount of material to burn.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 12:15
It reduces the bear-attractant properties of the trash you're carrying, presuming it was food-containing plastic you burned.

So the smell of smoke bothers you, but you see no reason to burn plastic in front of the shelter? Isn't the smoke from burning plastic hazardous?

Is there anything else you "learned" while on the AT??? :confused:

Pedaling Fool
10-18-2007, 12:16
And don't drive or hitch. That burns makes the same fumes - but uses a larger amount of material to burn.
And no more slack-packing!

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 12:17
He learned: Women are inferior

Or so I've heard.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 12:17
And no more slack-packing!

that's for weenies for sure

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 12:18
If you camp off by yourself no one cares what you burn.

sherrill
10-18-2007, 12:32
Or if you fart! :D

leeki pole
10-18-2007, 12:40
I thought that rules were what we were trying to get away from when we decided to hike. Gosh knows, we've got enough of them here in the real world. I agree, common decency, respect and politeness go a long way. Of course, I'm from the decadent and lowlife South, so what do I know.:rolleyes:

rafe
10-18-2007, 12:45
.. and no talking with your mouth full... and stop tracking mud across my nice clean floor...

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 12:46
No running with scissors in a shelter.

earlyriser26
10-18-2007, 12:56
Shelter Rules:


#1 - The first rule of the Shelter is, you do not stay at the Shelter.
#2 - The second rule of the Shelter is, you DO NOT stay at the Shelter.
#3 - If someone shows up the the shelter and there is space, is already at the shelter, or has a reservation for the shelter - they get to sleep in the shelter.
#4 - Shelter capacity is shelter capacity.
#5 - No saving spaces for others.
#6 - Bring your own shelter in case you can't stay at a shelter.
#7 - People staying in the shelter sleep as long as they have to.
#8 - If this is your first night at a Shelter, you won't get a good night's sleep.
I aways thought on a rainy night it was how many would fit. We once got 20 people in an 8 person shelter in Maine. Thank the lord many of them were females. P.S. I have not stayed in a shelter in over 10 years, because SHELTERS SUCK

Tennessee Viking
10-18-2007, 12:58
It is first come, first serve. If you are at a packed shelter with no tent. You can ask if a hiker with a tent to give up the spot, but you should be gracious enough to help set up their tent. Or ask if a tenter is gracious to bunk you up along with them. One of the basic and most essential tools of the trail is to help and share.

Large groups should tent unless there is room.

Shelters in the Smokies and couple other areas, require a reservation/notification of stay.

Shelters are for short stay only. And no base camping.

jlb2012
10-18-2007, 13:03
#1 - whoever farts first gets to say "First Base"
#2 - whoever farts next gets to say "You are Out! I'm on first base." unless it is the same person who farted first in which case the person says "Second Base" and so on
#3 - a person needs to fart 4 times before scoring a "RUN"
#4 - farts don't count if the prior fart by the same person is occurred less than 15 seconds previously
#5 - everyone plays on their own team
#6 - there is no set number of innings

Creek Dancer can act as a designated farter.

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 13:19
Hey, no way! I signed up to be the referee this time, but I am not going to sit behind home plate. :D

Oh, and no fair stacking your deck by eating beans and drinking beer before the game. There shall be no stinkin' cheatin' going on.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 13:23
It is first come, first serve. If you are at a packed shelter with no tent. You can ask if a hiker with a tent to give up the spot, but you should be gracious enough to help set up their tent. Or ask if a tenter is gracious to bunk you up along with them. One of the basic and most essential tools of the trail is to help and share.

Large groups should tent unless there is room.

Shelters in the Smokies and couple other areas, require a reservation/notification of stay.

Shelters are for short stay only. And no base camping.

if you show up at full shelter with no form of your own shelter on your back, you're SOL

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 13:42
How about this one: People that sleep in wooden boxes should not throw stones.

Think about it.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 13:43
How about this one: People that sleep in wooden boxes are scared sheeple.


that's correct. :D

sherrill
10-18-2007, 13:45
What if I split it down the middle and say it's ok to burn plastic shelters... :p

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 13:48
Damn, Lone Wolf just got me.

RockyBob
10-18-2007, 13:59
How about peeing outside the front of the shelter?

That must be why they put all those benches and tables in shelters now.

How about my imaginary friend?

If you want everyone that has a bad habit to stay away from shelters, then why would someone that knows they snore loud get a pass? Seems if someone knows they sound like a chainsaw they should be just as considerate as the smoker or the guy with the cell phone, dog, or whatever else you want to exclude. Let me guss, you snore don't you?

Actually you should never put a tent in a shelter. If you have a tent, then stay in it - not the shelter.

My imaginary friend does this where ever and when ever he wants too. He is a real jerk BTW.

I don't want people to know where I am, so I let my imaginary friend do that. He doesn't care.

How about sexist comments?

Let me guess, you were an early riser. Seems like another dual standard - guys coming in late need to be quiet but getting up early is OK

Yes they should. Teaches them to be self sufficient. After all they are a mighty THRU-HIKER!


If I hiked with an imaginary friend, she would at least be female. :)

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 14:00
Mine is named Karl Childers.

Sly
10-18-2007, 14:01
OMG, I actually agree with most of what MS listed. Of course, these aren't 'rules" folks but, common courtesy.

About the plastic, the fire pit is sterile and most likely to be burnt at some point.

About smoking, if no one is there, I'll smoke away, or ask if it's occupied.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 14:01
He learned: Women are inferior

No, men and women are of equal value, but have different life roles laid out for them (by God or by nature, your choice of terminology).

Women don't belong in infantry units, even if physically they are the rare ones that can handle the strength/size needs, for example, as you know full well. (Neither do I think much of anyone potentially subject to PMS having control over nuclear weapons, any more than someone with a narcotics addiction...) Likewise, while as a man at age 46 I can almost certainly still have healthy children of my own genome, a woman of my age with that inclination is pretty much SOL.

I work in the petroleum industry, and women are still a rarety; they generally don't seem to want to do that kind of work and live that lifestyle, imagine that.

For anyone who is Christian, a woman's place in the Church is proscribed by 1 Timothy 2:12, among other passages.

Likewise, men don't gestate or lactate, as most of us know.

Those are just a few of the many differences in life paths that no repulsive lesbian shrew at N.O.W. is going to be able to get undone by legislation.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 14:02
How about this one: People that sleep in wooden boxes should not throw stones.



What about in wood-containing bunkers? :D

Sly
10-18-2007, 14:07
MS, your 1 post of fame in this thread is over. Stop babbling!

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 14:08
I had heard that you were a chauvinist pig, but I didnít believe it until now.



No, men and women are of equal value, but have different life roles laid out for them (by God or by nature, your choice of terminology).

Women don't belong in infantry units, even if physically they are the rare ones that can handle the strength/size needs, for example, as you know full well. (Neither do I think much of anyone potentially subject to PMS having control over nuclear weapons, any more than someone with a narcotics addiction...) Likewise, while as a man at age 46 I can almost certainly still have healthy children of my own genome, a woman of my age with that inclination is pretty much SOL.

I work in the petroleum industry, and women are still a rarety; they generally don't seem to want to do that kind of work and live that lifestyle, imagine that.

For anyone who is Christian, a woman's place in the Church is proscribed by 1 Timothy 2:12, among other passages.

Likewise, men don't gestate or lactate, as most of us know.

Those are just a few of the many differences in life paths that no repulsive lesbian shrew at N.O.W. is going to be able to get undone by legislation.

Sly
10-18-2007, 14:10
I had heard that you were a chauvinist pig, but I didnít believe it until now.

And he's looking for a wife to bear his children! :p I think at one time I told him he should have stayed at the 12 tribes hostel/compound.

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 14:13
And he's single. How about that! I never would have guessed that to be true!

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 14:15
And he's looking for a wife to bear his children

I pretty sure I've found one (Caucasian, native-born American, under age 30). I promise to bring her to the next hiker function I attend. :)

CD, please feel free to attempt to refute any point I raised in my post responding to SGT. Rock's accusing me of misogyny. I noticed you did not manage to do above...

rafe
10-18-2007, 14:15
And he's single. How about that! I never would have guessed that to be true!

He hasn't found a woman perfect enough for him yet. :rolleyes:

rafe
10-18-2007, 14:17
CD, please feel free to attempt to refute any point I raised in my post responding to SGT. Rock's accusing me of misogyny. I noticed you did not manage to do above...

Maybe it was something to do with those "repulsive lesbian shrew[s] at N.O.W".

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 14:19
It's not that I didn't manage to do so, I chose not to refute your chauvenistic post. People like you are simply not worth the time or attention.


I pretty sure I've found one (Caucasian, native-born American, under age 30). I promise to bring her to the next hiker function I attend. :)

CD, please feel free to attempt to refute any point I raised in my post responding to SGT. Rock's accusing me of misogyny. I noticed you did not manage to do above...

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 14:21
For the record, I am not a lesbian, repulsive, a shrew or a member of N.O.W.



Maybe it was something to do with those "repulsive lesbian shrew[s] at N.O.W".

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 14:24
It's not that I didn't manage to do so, I chose not to refute your chauvenistic post. People like you are simply not worth the time or attention.
That was sort of what I figured when you posted that. So I guess that means you are not that girl he is talking about.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 14:25
It's not that I didn't manage to do so, I chose not to refute your chauvenistic post.

Oh, a forfeit. :D

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 14:26
No, simply knowing not to argue with someone with whom it won't matter. That is called wisdom.

Creek Dancer wins.

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 14:27
Nope! :banana


That was sort of what I figured when you posted that. So I guess that means you are not that girl he is talking about.

minnesotasmith
10-18-2007, 14:33
No, simply knowing not to argue with someone with whom it won't matter. That is called wisdom.

Creek Dancer wins.

Not the debate in question, she doesn't, any more that Warren Doyle disproves Jack Tarlin's many relevant points about WD's behavior being immoral or bad for the AT by squeaking out yet another, "Uh -- uh -- garbage!!!!!!".

The team that doesn't show to the game loses, just as the military to the war, or the side in court, just as in debate.

Anyway, back to shelter usage... Other than leaving books in shelters, burning plastic, and people who've slept alone all these years to the point that snoring is novel to them, it doesn't sound like too many of my suggestions for shelter protocols are objected to. I'm frankly a bit surprised , for example, that some dog nut hasn't weighed in wanting to be able to kick out people to make room for their pooch in a shelter expressly built for use solely by humans.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 14:37
I think there is a profit in Utah looking for your help.

Mags
10-18-2007, 14:47
Maybe a rule of shelter use is to NOT share a shelter with MN Smith? At least if your social views are from post-1935? :D

K-dog
10-18-2007, 14:47
I rarely ever post here but I gotta say, after everything I've read at WB over the years, if/when I hike the AT I will abide by Sgt. Rock's rules #1&2, i.e., I'll do everything I possibly can to avoid staying in a shelter. This thread seals the deal. I enjoy tent camping, anyway.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 14:48
... in a shelter expressly built for use solely by humans.

Says who? I missed that sign, as have many skunks, snakes, porcupines, mice and bearss.

Marta
10-18-2007, 14:48
I enjoyed reading this today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20071018/sc_livescience/feministshavemorefun

IMO, "Feminism" can be a code word for "seeing people as individuals
instead of primarily as a typical example of their group's stereotypical characteristics."

It works for me.

envirodiver
10-18-2007, 15:03
No, men and women are of equal value, but have different life roles laid out for them (by God or by nature, your choice of terminology).

Women don't belong in infantry units, even if physically they are the rare ones that can handle the strength/size needs, for example, as you know full well. (Neither do I think much of anyone potentially subject to PMS having control over nuclear weapons, any more than someone with a narcotics addiction...) Likewise, while as a man at age 46 I can almost certainly still have healthy children of my own genome, a woman of my age with that inclination is pretty much SOL.

I work in the petroleum industry, and women are still a rarety; they generally don't seem to want to do that kind of work and live that lifestyle, imagine that.

For anyone who is Christian, a woman's place in the Church is proscribed by 1 Timothy 2:12, among other passages.

Likewise, men don't gestate or lactate, as most of us know.

Those are just a few of the many differences in life paths that no repulsive lesbian shrew at N.O.W. is going to be able to get undone by legislation.

Geez it's no wonder that some women think all guys are jerks that think this way, and that so many people generalize: those that wear their Christian faith on their collar are nothing more than posers that utilize that faith to justify their lack of respect and curtesy toward their brothers and sisters.

dessertrat
10-18-2007, 15:25
Why anyone would stay in a shelter when they have a tent, tarp, or even a poncho and some sticks is beyond me. At least not the Algonquin style ones. They are pretty pointless unless you have no shelter with you at all, and that would be a dumb way to head out onto the trail.

Shelters are good if they have a privy and a fire ring, and as a meeting point and log book location, though.

Marta
10-18-2007, 15:26
I'm so glad y'all are not going to stay in shelters. It leaves more room for me! ;-)

Sly
10-18-2007, 15:28
I pretty sure I've found one (Caucasian, native-born American, under age 30). I promise to bring her to the next hiker function I attend. :)
.

Does she have a sister, or girl friend? ;)

mudhead
10-18-2007, 15:31
I hope I am allowed to borrow the term "young broad" from MS.

That should get me some lovin'.

MOWGLI
10-18-2007, 15:34
The team that doesn't show to the game loses, just as the military to the war, or the side in court, just as in debate.



WRONG. The phonies that want to debate Al Gore want to try and legitimize their crackpot ideas by using Al Gore as a platform to get out their "hoax" theory. Gore is smart not to take them up on it. The science is solid.

Similarly, most women would probably view arguing with you as beneath them. Some men, including me, would agree with that approach. Why anyone would try and legitimize your antiquated (I'm being kind here) way of thinking is beyond me.

Creek Dancer wins. :banana

Marta
10-18-2007, 15:35
I hope I am allowed to borrow the term "young broad" from MS.

That should get me some lovin'.

From whom? MS?:D

I think "broad" is like the N-word--you have to be talking about your own people in order to use it without causing offense. I met a group of women in the Sierras who called themselves F.L.A.B.--Fun-Loving Active Broads.

Alligator
10-18-2007, 15:37
Does she have a sister, or girl friend? ;)She's going to have a girlfriend soon with his attitude.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 15:38
Yep, sounds like you "won" there MS, your persuasive arguments about feminism and the real role of women has 'em lining up behind you. I guess you never read Tsun-Zu. If you did you would also stop babbling about all your military strategy and knowledge of how the military works.

Ever hear the phrase: "He's so smart he's stupid"?

Sly
10-18-2007, 15:39
I think "broad" is like the N-word--you have to be talking about your own people in order to use it without causing offense. I met a group of women in the Sierras who called themselves F.L.A.B.--Fun-Loving Active Broads.

Which I think is BS.

Why can't one call a woman, a lady? I never understood that one.

leeki pole
10-18-2007, 15:40
I rarely ever post here but I gotta say, after everything I've read at WB over the years, if/when I hike the AT I will abide by Sgt. Rock's rules #1&2, i.e., I'll do everything I possibly can to avoid staying in a shelter. This thread seals the deal. I enjoy tent camping, anyway.
I agree with you, K-dog. My pooch and I won't ruin anybody's hike. No rules, just right.:)

Creek Dancer
10-18-2007, 15:42
That's weird. I've never heard that one. Same as calling a man a gentleman in my opinion.


Which I think is BS.

Why can't one call a woman, a lady? I never understood that one.

Footslogger
10-18-2007, 15:43
As a "rule", the only time I would opt to stay in a shelter is when I am done hiking for the day and the rain is coming down cats & dogs. To me personally there just ain't much worse on the trail than trying to set up a tent/tarp/hammock in a downpour.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 15:44
Rule #9 - shelters are our friends, not firewood.

Marta
10-18-2007, 15:55
Which I think is BS.

Why can't one call a woman, a lady? I never understood that one.

I think to refer to yourself with a word that is normally a derogatory term about your group on started as being ironic. Or humorous, as in the case of F.L.A.B.

The "lady" thing is because it's not a blanket term for females, but only refers to females who follow a plethora of rules of behavior, most of which involve training oneself to supress natural behaviors (like laughing loudly, or not keeping one's knees together at all times) and substituting "ladylike" behaviors. You'd have to have been the target of many "For pity's sake, child, act like a Lady!" admonitions to understand.

Personally, though, I can't get too worked up over this sort of thing, except as the reveal the deeper intent of the speaker.

Tin Man
10-18-2007, 15:58
Rule #10 Do not burn a shelter until all rule-abiding shelter users have left the building.

Sly
10-18-2007, 16:06
That's weird. I've never heard that one. Same as calling a man a gentleman in my opinion.


I'm not sure where I heard it, maybe it was a NOW thing. Now that I know it's OK, I won't have to go through the pains of not making the (non)mistake.

Sly
10-18-2007, 16:10
Oh, now I can't call a woman a lady again. :rolleyes: Maybe it's "broad" to mean all women/ladies/females. :D

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 16:11
It is a broad term.

Hungry
10-18-2007, 16:30
Think I'll just stick to my hammock:)

cowboy nichols
10-18-2007, 16:32
Thoughts: I don't shelter I do tent I hike with a dog Better company and smarter I'm an OLD Broad and Darn glad to be one I love these totally senseless discussions because Laughter is the best medicine Cowboy

Marta
10-18-2007, 16:32
Oh, now I can't call a woman a lady again. :rolleyes: Maybe it's "broad" to mean all women/ladies/females. :D


There's always "chick." Or "old bag." :D

I think Americans edged towards "lady" because it was supposed to be flattering, implying at, in our egalitarian society, all women are "ladies."

But I wouldn't worry too much about it, sweetie. No matter what you do, what words you use, someone will find a way to be offended.

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 16:34
lotsa good lookin' dames out there

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 16:35
And lots of ugly dudes.

Uncle Silly
10-18-2007, 18:34
These have to be the dumbest rules...



1) Groups of 5+ should camp in their entirety, whether informal/private or some "official"/public group, even if the shelter is large and empty, the weather stinks, it's dark, and someone's pinkie toe has an "owie".

Sure, whatever. I personally agree that the Boy Scout or college groups shouldn't be using the shelters, but if I arrive at one that's full of Scouts, I'm not gonna bitch at them until they move. Typically, large groups bring extra food and share their leftovers. And you're not gonna get anywhere asking that big group of thru-hikers who all got to the shelter before you did to go tent somewhere else -- just suck it up and pitch your tent.



2) No smoking inside the shelter or near the front of it (yes, the overhang is part of the front) or other spot where there is any chance the fumes will be detectable inside the shelter.

3) No use or display of illegal substances in a shelter.

Unless, of course, everyone there is a smoker and/or is cool with the illegal substances. It helps if you offer to share. Most smokers will be polite and step away from the shelter entrance to smoke if nonsmokers are present. Don't count on this if it's raining; the best they'll be able to do is smoke under the front overhang.



4) Dogs may not ever enter a shelter, even if empty and the weather is inclement. They should not be brought within 50' of shelter, excepting only if the Trail passes closer than that, in which case the owner should pass on by with the dog without pausing until over 50' away.

When you build a shelter on your property, you can dictate this to me. Until then, **** off. Anyone staying at a shelter with me & my dog is welcome to register their displeasure at my dog's presence: in 6 months of AT hiking, it hasn't happened once. (There was a caretaker-maintained shelter in the Whites where I, and 2 other thru-hikers already staying at the shelter, had to convince the caretaker that my dog was welcome. This included a promise to relocate to a tent spot if others showed up to use the shelter who minded the dog.)

Dogs at a shelter help keep the mouse activity down, help keep other troublesome wildlife away, and are particularly welcomed by other hikers on cold nights due to their space-heater properties. The only time I've ever seen complaints about dogs in the shelter has been here on the internet. If it bothers you so much, you're welcome to complain to my face, or go pitch your tent.



5) Cooking should be done outside the shelter as a rule, certainly during dry weather. Ideally, cooking will be done outside the shelter at all times, but if the shelter is nowhere near capacity and the weather is very wet/cold, this is commonly winked at.

Exceptions to this rule include the extremely lazy, and those trying to torch the shelter. If you are going to cook in the shelter, try not to burn anyone else's stuff. For some stoves it's best to use a "burn blanket" -- a scrap of tinfoil or other material to be placed between your stove and the wood of the shelter, for the purpose of avoiding that blackened circle.

Otherwise, have fun, and try not to torch the shelter.



6) No person is entitled to more room in a shelter than the fraction they would take up if the shelter were filled to capacity. (snip)

7) No one may claim space in a shelter for people who have not yet arrived. (snip)

8) Snoring and flatulence are part of life in a shelter (snip)

9) Do not set up a tent inside a shelter that is remotely near capacity (snip)

Blah blah blah. These aren't hard and fast rules; these are common courtesies. I've arrived at shelters where other hikers had a tent set up inside; they had the courtesy to offer to take it down if I minded. I didn't, and no one else showed up that evening, so they left it up. If you really have a problem with any of these, shut up and go pitch yer tent. I once arrived at night at a shelter where the fellow on the bottom platform was already asleep and had left his cr@p strewn all over the place... and then proceeded to wake up and bitch at me about my smoking. (I was under the overhang. But he didn't seem to have a problem with it when I was seated at the picnic table, also under the overhang.)




10) If you are going to change clothes, it is considered standard courtesy either/or to cover yourself with bedding/rain gear first, or to give warning, especially if children/members of the opposite sex are present. That said, getting out of wet clothing in a hurry during hypothermic weather takes priority over the sensitivities of other adults.

Unless you're female and attractive, in which case you're welcome to remove any and all clothing you desire at any shelter I'm around. If MS is there, he can deal with the discomfort of seeing your naughty bits, or he can go pitch his tent. Me? I'm all for seeing your naughty bits.



11) Do not leave trash in a shelter. (snip)

Duh.



12) Do not leave behind anything in a fire pit besides ashes. Retrieve any foil, glass, metal, etc., that you put in there and pack it out. Do NOT bury anything near a shelter (anywhere on the AT, but especially not near a shelter). Don't try to burn food in a fire. If you are going to burn plastic, make sure the wind is not towards the shelter. (Paper/cardboard, NP.) If the fire pit is at all near the shelter, ask other current shelter occupants if they mind before building a fire.

Ignore that last bit. Fire pits are made for having fires; if you want a fire, build one; if your sheltermates really mind, they're welcome to GO PITCH THEIR TENT.

Please don't burn any non-wood stuff; pack your trash out. Note that paper is a wood product and so doesn't count as non-wood. Also note that, despite the request to pack out your trash, the fire pit is an acceptable place to dispose of your cigarette butts.



13) Write in the register your trail name, date of arrival at the shelter, and any safety issues worth mentioning to other hikers (bear sightings, possibly dangerous people, high water neccessitating reroutes, trail collapses/landslides, unclear trail junctions, new reroutes, etc.). Shelter registers are safety equipment-- use them.

14) Likewise, avoid/limit use of profanity, sexual subjects, encouraging illegal behavior, etc. in register entries. Children read them, too.

I actually agree with #13, although it is not a requirement. #14 can go suck a goat, and if you don't like it, don't read, or GO PITCH YER TENT.



15) When awake or up and about when it is dark out, try to limit A) noise (especially talking/electronics) and B) directing lights where sleepers may be bothered by them. (snip)

16) Thruhikers do NOT have priority over section-hikers, nor SHs over weekenders in shelter use. (snip)

ah, why bother...



17) If you show up at a shelter when you are not carrying a shelter (tent/tarp/hammock) of your own, you do NOT have any right to ask/tell anyone in the shelter who DOES have a personal shelter to get out of the shelter and go tent, to make room for you, no matter the weather. (snip)

You can, however, make the attempt to convince a weekender or section-hiker carrying their own shelter that you DO have the right to kick them out of the shelter because you're not carrying a tent. If you successfully con someone out of their sleeping spot, goody for you. Be aware that this sort of tactic might backfire, depending on your approach, and result in you getting your @ss kicked. In such a case, you might pause and reflect that perhaps you should have brought your own shelter and just GONE AND PITCHED YER TENT.

Tin Man
10-18-2007, 18:41
The fact that some feel that shelters need "rules" and the "rules" cannot be agreed upon by the shelter users is further proof that SHELTERS SUCK.

Sly
10-18-2007, 18:49
LOL... one way to avoid all the shelter "rules" is to GO PITCHED YER TENT

Uncle Silly
10-18-2007, 18:51
Shelters don't need rules. The control freaks 'round here just need to s.t.f.u. and go pitch their tents. (Same goes for the "Shelters Suck" Crowd!)

Sly
10-18-2007, 18:53
But I wouldn't worry too much about it, sweetie. No matter what you do, what words you use, someone will find a way to be offended.

LOL... Actually, sometimes I'm offended when females (usually waitresses) call me sweetie, honey or baby. That's pillow talk. Now if they want to shack up, it's a different story. ;)

woodsy
10-18-2007, 18:56
These have to be the dumbest rules...What do you expect from a self-proclaimed scientist?
He's the same guy that complained about trail conditions from GA to ME
He went by the name Minnesota Smith(roll eyes)

FatMan
10-18-2007, 19:19
The fact that some feel that shelters need "rules" and the "rules" cannot be agreed upon by the shelter users is further proof that SHELTERS SUCK.A very pointed comment. I remember years ago everyone just did their own thing out in the woods, and others all accepted it for what it was and didn't let it bother them. It was a much more pleasant time.

Nowadays, many hikers have an opinion how everyone else should behave in the woods, and if others don't behave per the opinion they then insist that rules exist to make them conform.

Relax everyone. Just go with the flow and you will be much happier out there. We have way too many "Captains of the World" telling each other how to behave. Lets not give them credence by debating their silliness. My advice is simple...Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

shelterbuilder
10-18-2007, 19:22
shelters don't suck.:D

shelter rules don't suck.:D

shelter USERS suck.:eek:

sometimes....

whitefoot_hp
10-18-2007, 19:23
There is one rule that guides behavior at shelters:

If it feels good, do it.

(also, the contrapositive, if it doesnt feel good, dont do it, but that is implied)

Skidsteer
10-18-2007, 19:28
LOL... Actually, sometimes I'm offended when females (usually waitresses) call me sweetie, honey or baby. That's pillow talk. Now if they want to shack up, it's a different story. ;)

I'm glad somebody(a man) finally brought that up. That irritates me too, Sly.

mudhead
10-18-2007, 19:30
Or darlin'.

I have been busted for less.

Kirby
10-18-2007, 19:43
I personally prefer to tent, I sleep better.

Kirby
30-5-2???

Tin Man
10-18-2007, 20:00
A very pointed comment. I remember years ago everyone just did their own thing out in the woods, and others all accepted it for what it was and didn't let it bother them. It was a much more pleasant time.

Nowadays, many hikers have an opinion how everyone else should behave in the woods, and if others don't behave per the opinion they then insist that rules exist to make them conform.

Relax everyone. Just go with the flow and you will be much happier out there. We have way too many "Captains of the World" telling each other how to behave. Lets not give them credence by debating their silliness. My advice is simple...Do unto others as you would have them do to you.


Generally, I am very relaxed and easy going. I go with the flow right up until some a** does something stupid or someone or some group comes in with an attitude - this has been more the case lately as we have begun sectioning the popular Whites. This year, both our spring and fall section hikes have been interrupted by private high school groups with leaders proclaiming "thou shall not invade" while the kids begin their invasion. I hike to get away from all that crvp. While I sleep in a tent, I like the shelter area for its amenities - tent spots, privy and fire ring mainly. I have stealthed in the past, but I really like my fires especially in the fall when it gets dark early. I have no issue sharing a space and have enjoyed meeting strangers in the designated camp/tent/shelter areas. It just seems that we are running into a more obnoxious groups and individuals then we have south of the Whites and I am getting turned off on the shelter experience. Maybe it is time to embrace stealth camping more fully and learning how to build a stealth fire.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 20:02
shelters don't suck.:D

shelter rules don't suck.:D

shelter USERS suck.:eek:

sometimes....
Naw, shelters still suck. They should all be turned into tent sites with a covered picnic table. That way the shelter users that get pissed of because people eat and cook in their shelter and attract mice can get over it. That is all shelters are really good for anyway. Thank goodness shelter builders are realizing this and putting tables and benches there.

Marta
10-18-2007, 20:03
LOL... Actually, sometimes I'm offended when females (usually waitresses) call me sweetie, honey or baby. That's pillow talk. Now if they want to shack up, it's a different story. ;)

Tone of voice... There's the you're-the-one-that-makes-my-heart-beat-faster "honey;" the I'm-just-being-friendly "honey;" the don't-take-it-personally-'cause-I-use-the-word-on-everyone-male-or-female "honey;" the I'm-pretending-to-be-friendly-but-I-actually-wish-you'd-go-away "honey;" the you're-not-even-worth-scraping-off-my-shoe "honey;" and the if-looks-could-kill "honey."

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 20:07
Tone of voice... There's the you're-the-one-that-makes-my-heart-beat-faster "honey;" the I'm-just-being-friendly "honey;" the don't-take-it-personally-'cause-I-use-the-word-on-everyone-male-or-female "honey;" the I'm-pretending-to-be-friendly-but-I-actually-wish-you'd-go-away "honey;" the you're-not-even-worth-scraping-off-my-shoe "honey;" and the if-looks-could-kill "honey."

like a jovial "what up my ******!" is cool

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 20:07
You mean this whole time women didn't find me sexy when they were saying that?

My ego just got crushed.

Sly
10-18-2007, 20:09
like a jovial "what up my ******!" is cool

Heh, heh... slap me five, bro! :cool:

the goat
10-18-2007, 20:12
These have to be the dumbest rules...

Sure, whatever. I personally agree that the Boy Scout or college groups shouldn't be using the shelters, but if I arrive at one that's full of Scouts, I'm not gonna bitch at them until they move. Typically, large groups bring extra food and share their leftovers. And you're not gonna get anywhere asking that big group of thru-hikers who all got to the shelter before you did to go tent somewhere else -- just suck it up and pitch your tent.

Unless, of course, everyone there is a smoker and/or is cool with the illegal substances. It helps if you offer to share. Most smokers will be polite and step away from the shelter entrance to smoke if nonsmokers are present. Don't count on this if it's raining; the best they'll be able to do is smoke under the front overhang.

When you build a shelter on your property, you can dictate this to me. Until then, **** off. Anyone staying at a shelter with me & my dog is welcome to register their displeasure at my dog's presence: in 6 months of AT hiking, it hasn't happened once. (There was a caretaker-maintained shelter in the Whites where I, and 2 other thru-hikers already staying at the shelter, had to convince the caretaker that my dog was welcome. This included a promise to relocate to a tent spot if others showed up to use the shelter who minded the dog.)

Dogs at a shelter help keep the mouse activity down, help keep other troublesome wildlife away, and are particularly welcomed by other hikers on cold nights due to their space-heater properties. The only time I've ever seen complaints about dogs in the shelter has been here on the internet. If it bothers you so much, you're welcome to complain to my face, or go pitch your tent.

Exceptions to this rule include the extremely lazy, and those trying to torch the shelter. If you are going to cook in the shelter, try not to burn anyone else's stuff. For some stoves it's best to use a "burn blanket" -- a scrap of tinfoil or other material to be placed between your stove and the wood of the shelter, for the purpose of avoiding that blackened circle.

Otherwise, have fun, and try not to torch the shelter.

Blah blah blah. These aren't hard and fast rules; these are common courtesies. I've arrived at shelters where other hikers had a tent set up inside; they had the courtesy to offer to take it down if I minded. I didn't, and no one else showed up that evening, so they left it up. If you really have a problem with any of these, shut up and go pitch yer tent. I once arrived at night at a shelter where the fellow on the bottom platform was already asleep and had left his cr@p strewn all over the place... and then proceeded to wake up and bitch at me about my smoking. (I was under the overhang. But he didn't seem to have a problem with it when I was seated at the picnic table, also under the overhang.)

Unless you're female and attractive, in which case you're welcome to remove any and all clothing you desire at any shelter I'm around. If MS is there, he can deal with the discomfort of seeing your naughty bits, or he can go pitch his tent. Me? I'm all for seeing your naughty bits.

Duh.

Ignore that last bit. Fire pits are made for having fires; if you want a fire, build one; if your sheltermates really mind, they're welcome to GO PITCH THEIR TENT.

Please don't burn any non-wood stuff; pack your trash out. Note that paper is a wood product and so doesn't count as non-wood. Also note that, despite the request to pack out your trash, the fire pit is an acceptable place to dispose of your cigarette butts.

I actually agree with #13, although it is not a requirement. #14 can go suck a goat, and if you don't like it, don't read, or GO PITCH YER TENT.

ah, why bother...

You can, however, make the attempt to convince a weekender or section-hiker carrying their own shelter that you DO have the right to kick them out of the shelter because you're not carrying a tent. If you successfully con someone out of their sleeping spot, goody for you. Be aware that this sort of tactic might backfire, depending on your approach, and result in you getting your @ss kicked. In such a case, you might pause and reflect that perhaps you should have brought your own shelter and just GONE AND PITCHED YER TENT.

yeah, what he said!

(except for the part a/b "sucking a goat"):D

Uncle Silly
10-18-2007, 20:14
(except for the part a/b "sucking a goat"):D

:D and I made very sure not to say anything about "sucking THE goat"... cause that would've just been wrong. :D

rickb
10-18-2007, 20:16
#9 The adjectives better, lighter, engineered, more, less, best, really breathable, rated, reviewed, ergonomic fit, highly, expensive but, worth it, improved and excellent, should not be used more then once in any conversation regarding the following: stoves, tents, knives, backpacks, pads, clothing of any kind, boots, poles, rain gear. They may be used multiple times in conjunction with hamocks, but only in if just one party owns one already.

#10 Dry firing excersizes should be discouraged

nitewalker
10-18-2007, 20:19
i heard no soring is one of the shelter rules!!

shelterbuilder
10-18-2007, 20:21
i heard no soring is one of the shelter rules!!

I don't know about you, but I always wake up sore when I sleep in a shelter.:D

Lone Wolf
10-18-2007, 20:23
if there were no shelters at all, these weenies that use them with their dogs, smoking, snoring, etc. wouldn't be out there. burn all shelters

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 20:23
My imaginary friend talks in his sleep at shelters. He has even been known to sit around tinkering with lawn mowers.

But he calls 'em sheds. Some folks calls 'em shelters, but he calls 'em sheds.

nitewalker
10-18-2007, 20:25
lol. i just noticed that one. i was trying to be funny and look what happens. im funny just in a totally different way....ha ha ha..lol......peace

and for those of you who dont get it ....snoring......i think

Appalachian Tater
10-18-2007, 20:27
Hiker midnight is usually about 9:00, maybe 10:00. It's polite not to be really loud after that.

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 20:30
What if I can only read out loud and want to read? I promise to do it with the blanket over my head.

And Carl likes it when I read to him. He likes the way I talk...

He also has these really cool books he always brings with him. One is a book on Christmas, one is about carpentry, and one is the Bible.

Uncle Silly
10-18-2007, 20:31
Hiker midnight is usually about 9:00, maybe 10:00. It's polite not to be really loud after that.

Polite, but only really encouraged if people are already snoring. If you've built a bonfire and all your sheltermates are dancing 'round it, be as loud as you like.

shelterbuilder
10-18-2007, 20:32
Hiker midnight is usually about 9:00, maybe 10:00. It's polite not to be really loud after that.

That's really quite a "grizzly" attitude you've got there....

Appalachian Tater
10-18-2007, 20:32
What if I can only read out loud and want to read? I promise to do it with the blanket over my head.

And Carl likes it when I read to him. He likes the way I talk...

He also has these really cool books he always brings with him. One is a book on Christmas, one is about carpentry, and one is the Bible.

I don't care, because I'm a few hundred feet away in my TarpTent, as long as you're not being really loud I won't know. If you feel the need to scream, I'll let your shelter-mates handle it. Or Dixicritter!

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 20:33
Carl said: "People that sleep in them sheds ain't no account, mmmm"

nitewalker
10-18-2007, 20:33
i brought this guy up the franconia ridge 2 weeks ago and we stayed on a platform at the liberty spring campsite the 1st nite and then garfield shelteron the 2nd nite..well he tells me on the 1st night that he grinds his teeth. he sure did. i tell you what it sounded pretty nasty. it still wasnt as bad as a tired soring[snoring] hiker....im planing to get out on the trail sometime next week and im looking to spend about 7 to 14 days out im just not sure where to go yet..im leaning toward better weather possibilities...

dixicritter
10-18-2007, 20:35
I don't care, because I'm a few hundred feet away in my TarpTent, as long as you're not being really loud I won't know. If you feel the need to scream, I'll let your shelter-mates handle it. Or Dixicritter!

Whatever gave you the idea I could "handle" him??? :eek: ;)

Marta
10-18-2007, 21:53
Whatever gave you the idea I could "handle" him??? :eek: ;)

Just call him "honey.":D

SGT Rock
10-18-2007, 21:57
I'm on to that one now.

Ewker
10-18-2007, 22:11
Just call him "honey.":D

but which tone should dixie use :eek:

Marta
10-18-2007, 22:29
but which tone should dixie use :eek:

The I-want-someone-else-to-do-something-I-don't-want-to-do-myself tone often works.

ed bell
10-19-2007, 00:49
"Hiker midnight" has got to be one of the lamest terms I have ever heard. Me and some friends had a tough pull up to Otter Creek in January about 5-7 years ago. We hit our reserved campsite at around 7pm only to find that some schmucks had decided to set up on the tent pads in a way that gave hardly any room for us to get right. Needless to say that despite the -4 degree temps and 6 inches of falling snow, we kept the jovial atmosphere alive past 9pm even though the schmucks were asleep when we arrived. Don't get me wrong, I have always tried to respect others needs for peace and quiet in the woods, but lets be real, there is plenty of room for all to get what they need out there.:sun

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 01:06
Why didn't you just wake them up and ask them to accomodate you?

mudhead
10-19-2007, 06:04
The I-want-someone-else-to-do-something-I-don't-want-to-do-myself tone often works.

I know this one. Scares the crap out of me. Sheer panic .

ed bell
10-19-2007, 08:43
Why didn't you just wake them up and ask them to accomodate you?Cause it seemed like a better idea to just make due and not get bothered by it. We had more fun refering to the offenders as the "bibler boys".:D

dessertrat
10-19-2007, 09:33
On the dog question: Where is the rule about dogs? I don't mind dogs at shelters at all. In fact, I rather like most dogs, if they are well behaved. I don't see why one should "pass by 50 feet away" if they have a dog. Who made that one up?

generoll
10-19-2007, 09:50
there are no "rules" in shelters with the exception of the Smokies and perhaps the Whites. Common Sense being a rather uncommon virtue, it's do whatever you think you can get away with, assuming you shed your conscience somewhere in the past.

minnesotasmith
10-19-2007, 09:52
IMO (http://IMO), "Feminism" can be a code word for "seeing people as individuals
instead of primarily as a typical example of their group's stereotypical characteristics."


Oh, like this? http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Radical_Feminist_Quotes

And, this? http://reactor-core.org/scum.html

The writings of these pyschotics make Mein Kampf look pacifistic and warmly accepting of differences across the spectrum of humanity.

Note that these feminist leaders have NEVER been outcast from the main body of feminism, in fact being its "mainstream" for over 40 years (if feminism can even be said to be "mainstream" outside of ultraliberal university departments and such).

To be feminist today means to be against what is wholesome and good, not to mention specifically being socialist and in favor of lesbianism and against marriage.

dessertrat
10-19-2007, 09:59
minnesotasmith, you don't necessarily get to define feminism, just because you can find an example or two of someone acting crazy while calling themselves feminists.

Flush2wice
10-19-2007, 10:00
there are no "rules" in shelters with the exception of the Smokies and perhaps the Whites. Common Sense being a rather uncommon virtue, it's do whatever you think you can get away with, assuming you shed your conscience somewhere in the past.
Actually there ARE rules for shelters. I did a google search and this is what I found. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28705) It's true, it's on the internet.

minnesotasmith
10-19-2007, 10:03
What do you expect from a self-proclaimed scientist?


Woodsy, I have bachelor's and master's degrees from accredited brikc-and-mortar colleges and universities in a hard physical science (Geology), and currently work in a job where oil company geology departments pay me money for scientific judgements. I have published papers in technical journals, and have done preliminary patent work on two devices I came up with while working in biotech plants. Does that, or does that not, qualify me as a scientist in your opinion?

BTW, I normally don't bring up my profession outside of giving relevant background on non-AT discussions of topics like global warming or Peak Oil, where all opinions are assuredly not created equal. Why did you think that my schooling was germane to a discussion about how to behave courteously in Trail shelters?

minnesotasmith
10-19-2007, 10:05
Why can't one call a woman, a lady? I never understood that one.

Because most American women today have chosen not to behave as ladies, but as common women. Their behavior defines them.

Alligator
10-19-2007, 10:10
Woodsy, I have bachelor's and master's degrees from accredited brikc-and-mortar colleges and universities in a hard physical science (Geology), and currently work in a job where oil company geology departments pay me money for scientific judgements. I have published papers in technical journals, and have done preliminary patent work on two devices I came up with while working in biotech plants. Does that, or does that not, qualify me as a scientist in your opinion?
...So why as a scientist do you habitually take the most extreme and outlying data points to be the norm? It's like conspiracy theory central with you.

minnesotasmith
10-19-2007, 10:14
Actually there ARE rules for shelters. I did a google search and this is what I found. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28705) It's true, it's on the internet.

Post #5 there about covers it, I'd say. :D

Alligator
10-19-2007, 10:15
Because most American women today have chosen not to behave as ladies, but as common women. Their behavior defines them.Your consistent bashing of women on this site needs to end. Maybe a woman or two did you wrong, but your continued denigration of women here needs to stop. Get counseling.

minnesotasmith
10-19-2007, 10:16
So why as a scientist do you habitually take the most extreme and outlying data points to be the norm? It's like conspiracy theory central with you.

It's along the lines of, what percentage of 186,282.397 miles per second should we say is the speed of light in a vaccuum?

Creek Dancer
10-19-2007, 10:16
Thank you Alligator.

EWS
10-19-2007, 10:19
Because most American women today have chosen not to behave as ladies, but as common women. Their behavior defines them.

Sadly, I think that this is all too often true; a little bit of class is very hard to find.

rafe
10-19-2007, 10:21
To be feminist today means to be against what is wholesome and good, not to mention specifically being socialist and in favor of lesbianism and against marriage.

You're disgusting, MS. I really mean that. Your pronouncements make me ill. I'm ashamed for you.

Alligator
10-19-2007, 10:23
Sadly, I think that this is all too often true; a little bit of class is very hard to find.But the men are always gentlemen:rolleyes: .

sweetpeastu
10-19-2007, 10:25
shelters consistently make me ill.

ed bell
10-19-2007, 10:25
So why as a scientist do you habitually take the most extreme and outlying data points to be the norm? It's like conspiracy theory central with you.Y2K was a HUGE deal to him. Sometimes you run into someone who is always clucking about how the sky is falling.:sun

Mags
10-19-2007, 10:27
I'm glad somebody(a man) finally brought that up. That irritates me too, Sly.

(Talking about being called honey, sweety, etc.)

All depends on the context.

If it is a waitress in a diner back in the Northeast (preferably if the name of the said waitress is Flo, Dot or Bea. Helps if she smokes, too), about 55 yrs old and does not take crap from anyone, then somehow it just works being called "honey, sweety, etc" by her. Besides, she takes no crap for anyone..you gonna make somethin' outta of it?

If a 27 yr old grad student who is a cute blonde calls you sweety, than that works too.... But this is nominally a family friendly BBS, so I'll just shut up now...

EWS
10-19-2007, 10:29
But the men are always gentlemen:rolleyes: .

I never implied anything close to that.

Mags
10-19-2007, 10:29
Naw, shelters still suck. They should all be turned into tent sites with a covered picnic table.

Yeah..what he said. ;)

Many maintainers (Hi Skyline!) are starting to think this way too.

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 10:30
shelters are for scared sheeple weenies

mudhead
10-19-2007, 10:32
Save the privy, please.

woodsy
10-19-2007, 10:32
minnesotasmith Does that, or does that not, qualify me as a scientist in your opinion?
If you say so MS



. Why did you think that my schooling was germane to a discussion about how to behave courteously in Trail shelters?

So that readers would know that advanced education does not necessarily advance common sense .

Gray Blazer
10-19-2007, 10:33
minnesotasmith, you don't necessarily get to define feminism, just because you can find an example or two of someone acting crazy while calling themselves feminists.
I kinda liked it when they burned their bars (I'm so dyslexic :o )

sherrill
10-19-2007, 10:33
What is your definition of a common woman as opposed to a lady? Then, is there a difference between a common man as opposed to a gentleman, in your opinion?

mudhead
10-19-2007, 10:33
Book smart, rock ...

Mags
10-19-2007, 10:34
If you say so MS



So that readers would know that advanced education does not necessarily advance common sense .

"Smart..but not too bright" as my Mom would say. She has some other sayings that could describe this situation, but again...this is nominally a family friendly BBS. :sun

dixicritter
10-19-2007, 10:35
Hmmm, nice to know exactly what MS thinks of women. I'll be sure and remember that. :)

MOWGLI
10-19-2007, 10:40
Hmmm, nice to know exactly what MS thinks of women. I'll be sure and remember that. :)

Yes, you should be seen and not heard. Take those shoes off, and get in the kitchen! :eek:

mudhead
10-19-2007, 10:42
Thinks Rachel Carson was a flake, too.

I never will understand people.

dixicritter
10-19-2007, 10:47
Yes, you should be seen and not heard. Take those shoes off, and get in the kitchen! :eek:

LOL.... I actually rarely wear shoes when I'm at home, and I just left the kitchen thank ya very much. ;)

Oh and I'm also in the midst of a sewing project. So ya see MS don't know squat about the women around here. :D

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 10:54
why'd the woman cross the road?





who gives a s**t! what's she doin' out of the kitchen?

Marta
10-19-2007, 11:02
why'd the woman cross the road?





who gives a s**t! what's she doin' out of the kitchen?


Sometimes we gotta leave the kitchen to draw water from the well.:D

MOWGLI
10-19-2007, 11:20
... I actually rarely wear shoes when I'm at home..


Hmmmm. Lets see.

Barefoot. ✔
Hound Dog. ✔
Hillbilly husband. ✔


Alex, I'll take "Life in East Tennessee" for $500. ;)

dixicritter
10-19-2007, 11:30
Hmmmm. Lets see.

Barefoot. ✔
Hound Dog. ✔
Hillbilly husband. ✔


Alex, I'll take "Life in East Tennessee" for $500. ;)

Ya got me. LOL. :D

Marta
10-19-2007, 11:33
If the shoe fits, wear it.

Oh...that doesn't really apply here. Sorry.

Dakota Dan
10-19-2007, 12:58
Our plans will be to use shelters as a place to cook/eat or adjust gear/boots only when raining. This we'll do in the daytime and when uncrowded. The shelter will not be too far from the whiteblazes either. Otherwise we'll cook from the vestibule of our tents or eat cold. Never have slept in a shelter. I'm a non-smoker and allergic/sensitive to second hand smoke as well as other BS that goes on in shelters. My feelings on shelters really doesn't matter, of course, I do believe they attract certain groups of weekender's, etc that add stress to the trail that otherwise probably would not occur where the shelters not present. If asked for my vote, I'd probably side with L. WOLF. No offense to shelter lovers or too those hikers who can't afford a tent.

rafe
10-19-2007, 13:13
...I do believe they attract certain groups of weekender's, etc that add stress to the trail that otherwise probably would not occur where the shelters not present.

Don't want no dirty filthy weekenders spoiling our wilderness experience. :rolleyes:

Alligator
10-19-2007, 13:18
Don't want no dirty filthy weekenders spoiling our wilderness experience. :rolleyes:Easy T he's a newbie:eek: . DD, thrus also put a lot of pressure on the shelters.

Jack Tarlin
10-19-2007, 13:23
Dan:

With all due respect, what sort of "stress" do weekenders add to the Trail?

Sorry, but there are many of us who don't have a clue as to what you're talking about here.

Marta
10-19-2007, 13:29
Jeez, Joe from Freightliner just called me "sweetie" over the phone. Should I sue?

jlb2012
10-19-2007, 13:37
naw - just use your cho-pat strap as a slingshot and aim low

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 13:38
Jeez, Joe from Freightliner just called me "sweetie" over the phone. Should I sue?

yeah. retain that bitch lawyer Gloria Allred

saimyoji
10-19-2007, 15:00
Don't want no dirty filthy weekenders spoiling our wilderness experience. :rolleyes:

Too late, we're out there in force already. :bse

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 15:37
I see while I was gone MS is still trying to get someone to debate him on his views.

Stop babbling. Your making yourself look even worse man.

woodsy
10-19-2007, 15:53
I see while I was gone MS is still trying to get someone to debate him on his views.

Stop babbling. Your making yourself look even worse man.
Just picture a dude with a big head walking around with a foot stuck in his mouth:rolleyes:

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 15:55
LOL, well how about a pasty white man that is mostly out of shape and is so scared of the woods he carries 6 rolls of toilet paper talking about how much stronger men are than women.

dixicritter
10-19-2007, 15:55
Just picture a dude with a big head walking around with a foot stuck in his mouth:rolleyes:

Funny you should mention that.... I already did. ;)

Mags
10-19-2007, 16:06
LOL, well how about a pasty white man that is mostly out of shape and is so scared of the woods he carries 6 rolls of toilet paper talking about how much stronger men are than women.

Another Momma Mags[1] saying comes to mind... "An empty can makes the most noise..."

I should remember that at times... :eek:



[1] That's what some of our friends call Mom. :)

Jan LiteShoe
10-19-2007, 16:08
Your consistent bashing of women on this site needs to end. Maybe a woman or two did you wrong, but your continued denigration of women here needs to stop. Get counseling.

Yes, thanks Alligator.

smokymtnsteve
10-19-2007, 16:09
LOL, well how about a pasty white man that is mostly out of shape and is so scared of the woods he carries 6 rolls of toilet paper talking about how much stronger men are than women.

that's what I love about Alaska whar men are men and the women are men

K is tough she stacks the firewood, feeds the woodstove and emptys the slop bucket and honeybucket...


does dixicritter empty yore honeybucket??

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 16:11
that's what I love about Alaska whar men are men and the women are men

K is tough she stacks the firewood, feeds the woodstove and emptys the slop bucket and honeybucket...


does dixicritter empty yore honeybucket??
Not exactly, but we got that fance indoor plumin'

If youens ever come out this way, I'll let you use it.

Jan LiteShoe
10-19-2007, 16:12
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOWGLI16 http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=429488#post429488)
Hmmmm. Lets see.

Barefoot. ✔
Hound Dog. ✔
Hillbilly husband. ✔


Alex, I'll take "Life in East Tennessee" for $500. ;)

Ya got me. LOL. :D

Ya got me. LOL. :D

This exchange was hysterical.
Thanks for the chuckle.
:)

smokymtnsteve
10-19-2007, 16:13
oh I fergot,,,youse all some pasty city sleekers down thar in tinnyC?

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 16:14
oh I fergot,,,youse all some pasty city sleekers down thar in tinnyC?
Compared to you right now, I'd agree. I need to get out more.

Cosmo Rules
10-19-2007, 16:18
"Rules" suck.

smokymtnsteve
10-19-2007, 16:20
Compared to you right now, I'd agree. I need to get out more.


when U comin to AK??? raspberries is ripe in July,

I wuz sleeping under a blue tarp this summer while working on my cabin...the state troopers killed a grizz about a quarter mile away that night, I heard the shots fired...

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 16:22
Well it won't be until at least after my thru-hike. 99 and a wake up buddy.

So if I decide to come hike Denali I know I can come sleep with your dogs.

Cookerhiker
10-19-2007, 16:25
.)......To be feminist today means to be against what is wholesome and good, not to mention specifically being socialist and in favor of lesbianism and against marriage.

Aren't you forgetting atheism and/or devil worship?

I suppose being against what's "wholesome and good" means they're also in favor of dirty air and clearcut forests and sweatshop labor and price gouging and hatred of people who don't look like them and chemically-laden foods and and and...

Wait a minute - that sound like other idealogues I can think of. Who are we talking about again?:-?

Uncle Silly
10-19-2007, 16:30
Aren't you forgetting atheism and/or devil worship?

I suppose being against what's "wholesome and good" means they're also in favor of dirty air and clearcut forests and sweatshop labor and price gouging and hatred of people who don't look like them and chemically-laden foods and and and...

Wait a minute - that sound like other idealogues I can think of. Who are we talking about again?:-?

Ssshhhh!!! Don't encourage him!!

Dakota Dan
10-19-2007, 17:22
Dan:

With all due respect, what sort of "stress" do weekender's add to the Trail?

Sorry, but there are many of us who don't have a clue as to what you're talking about here.

Speaking on shelters I said "I do believe they attract certain groups of weekender's, etc that may add stress to the trail that otherwise probably would not occur where the shelters not present."

Sorry to offend anyone. I have personally seen and heard of groups from Church's, scouts, schools, etc who may access a shelter from a nearby road access. These groups could possibly impact the area in less time than it would normally take. These groups may have chosen another option if the shelter was not there. This is all I was trying to relay.

Kirby
10-19-2007, 17:28
Would 4 people be considered too large a group to stay in a shelter? If so, then I want to tell people in advance the group I am going with intends to use shelters only when they are not being occupied, we have plans to vacate a shelter, one by one, as solo hikers come in if the incoming hiker prefers the shelter over tenting.

Kirby

Dakota Dan
10-19-2007, 17:45
I would like to point out that I love seeing anyone, solo to the largest of groups, use any trail. It would be nice if they practice "leave no trace". In my earlier post I was merely speaking of groups who could be up to mischief, or maybe even a church group of youngsters that is under-supervised. Being a Life Scout I especially enjoy seeing scouts using the trail systems. Please don't read anything derogatory into my comments. I was trying to point out there may be some groups of people that would not enter the woods if a shelter was not available to them. That is all. DD

FatMan
10-19-2007, 17:48
Would 4 people be considered too large a group to stay in a shelter? If so, then I want to tell people in advance the group I am going with intends to use shelters only when they are not being occupied, we have plans to vacate a shelter, one by one, as solo hikers come in if the incoming hiker prefers the shelter over tenting.

KirbyFour is not too large a group. Your group has as much right to use the shelter as anyone else...thru hikers included. Some thru hikers may think they are more entitled to use the shelter, but they are not.

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 17:53
Four is not too large a group. Your group has as much right to use the shelter as anyone else...thru hikers included. Some thru hikers may think they are more entitled to use the shelter, but they are not.

The few that think that must make a big ruckus.

neo
10-19-2007, 17:57
I wanted to know what are the rules/ediquette to using shelters (i.e. if you need to stop and a shelter is being partially/fully occupied) or if its first come first serve.


:D i prefer my hammock and tarp miles from any shelter:cool: neo

neo
10-19-2007, 17:58
"Rules" suck.


:D so do shelters:cool: neo

leeki pole
10-19-2007, 18:02
Just picture a dude with a big head walking around with a foot stuck in his mouth:rolleyes:
Yeah, MS gets hitched, has a couple of wonderful baby girls...his tune will change.
I speak from experience on this one.:) Sorry about the thread drift, but I couldn't resist.

prozac
10-19-2007, 18:16
I like shelters. No, actually I love shelters. I take the hammock along but prefer a shelter if its empty. If it starts getting crowded I can always move down the trail a hundred yards.
I actually enjoy meeting other hikers at the shelters.
I like having a roof over my head when its raining.
I like not freezing my ass off in my hammock when its windy and cold.
I like fires but don't like making them.
I like section hikers/boy scouts with too much food.
I like reading the registers.
I like smoking a fatty with other like minded hikers.
I like a privy when its raining.
I like having varmint poles/cables/boxes provided for my lazy ass.
I love having a picnic table.
I also like the freedom and comfort my hammock affords me but can't see using it every night.
Put the word out, shelters are evil. No self respecting thruhiker would use one. More room for me.

woodsy
10-19-2007, 18:26
off topic.....

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 18:28
What do you expect? He was voted "Man most likley to dress like an Iraqi woman on a long distance hike" by his high school class. Ever since then he has had this thing about women.

Did you see his picture from his hike? http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=12619

woodsy
10-19-2007, 18:34
Did you see his picture from his hike?
Which one?:rolleyes:
Oh, that one , cool

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 18:35
look up one post.

woodsy
10-19-2007, 20:34
off topic.......

Hikerhead
10-19-2007, 20:38
What do you expect? He was voted "Man most likley to dress like an Iraqi woman on a long distance hike" by his high school class. Ever since then he has had this thing about women.

Did you see his picture from his hike? http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=12619

Now that was just too funny!!!! :)

Kirby
10-19-2007, 20:55
He did not look that happy in that photo.

Hm,
Kirby
30-5-2??

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 21:00
Have you ever read his posting history?

He doesn't sound like a happy person.

Topcat
10-19-2007, 21:01
I forgot how entertaining it gets when MS gets going.....

My shelter rule is.....sleep in my tent. It is more quiet for me...adn my neighbors..

Appalachian Tater
10-19-2007, 21:10
If he ever manages to convince a female to accept his genetic material in order to fertilize an egg, future generations will be similarly blessed.

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 21:52
Unless she is one of those girls that always has that surprised look on her face.

Lone Wolf
10-19-2007, 22:30
Would 4 people be considered too large a group to stay in a shelter? If so, then I want to tell people in advance the group I am going with intends to use shelters only when they are not being occupied, we have plans to vacate a shelter, one by one, as solo hikers come in if the incoming hiker prefers the shelter over tenting.

Kirby

no. shelters are first come, first served. you stay in it if there is room.

stumpy
10-19-2007, 23:21
My imaginary friend talks in his sleep at shelters. He has even been known to sit around tinkering with lawn mowers.

But he calls 'em sheds. Some folks calls 'em shelters, but he calls 'em sheds.


How heavy is it to carry those Biscuts n' Mustard for your friend Karl? Heard he is a big guy, maybe he can carry them himself.

I bet he is good with trail maint. with his blade skills and all!;)

SGT Rock
10-19-2007, 23:23
How heavy is it to carry those Biscuts n' Mustard for your friend Karl? Heard he is a big guy, maybe he can carry them himself.

I bet he is good with trail maint. with his blade skills and all!;)
He's used to totin' them big ol' sacks of warsh. He also likes potted meat. Chock full of peckers and lips.

EWS
10-19-2007, 23:57
Two Words: Mailorder Bride

Appalachian Tater
10-20-2007, 00:01
Two Words: Mailorder Bride

It's not like they don't have birth control in countries where mailorder brides come from! Those women aren't dumb.

EWS
10-20-2007, 00:06
It's not like they don't have birth control in countries where mailorder brides come from! Those women aren't dumb.

True, but there is an incintive for them to have a child. If they have a kid in the US it is damn near impossible to deport them, so when things go wrong they don't end up back in some dump in Laos.

Appalachian Tater
10-20-2007, 00:11
After two years and a green card it's irrelevant. It's easy enough to pretend like you're trying to get pregnant and can't for a couple of years.

Jimmers
10-20-2007, 00:14
People, please, I really don't want to read think about the logistics of MS fathering a child. Especially after that photo. Not his best side maybe?:D

Jester2000
10-20-2007, 00:20
It is first come, first serve. If you are at a packed shelter with no tent. You can ask if a hiker with a tent to give up the spot, but you should be gracious enough to help set up their tent.

And be gracious enough when they tell you to F-Off.


It's not that I didn't manage to do so, I chose not to refute your chauvenistic post. People like you are simply not worth the time or attention.

". . .And yet I can't help responding to you, dammit."


Yeah, MS gets hitched, has a couple of wonderful baby girls...his tune will change.
I speak from experience on this one.

Wait. What? You've had babies with MS?!?

So the original question, before all of the "MS's attitude regarding women" thing, and the random "I don't stay in shelters, so I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I want you to know that I don't stay in shelters" people, had to do with rules in shelters. And while there are no rules per se, there is etiquette. So I give you, live from its long run on the thread "Shelter Etiquette," Jester's Shelter Etiquette Rules (to be posted in every shelter on the AT):


Jester's Shelter Etiquette Rules
(to be posted in every shelter on the AT)

1) Upon arriving at a shelter, ask politely if there is room in the shelter. When the person inside informs you that you are at the privy, excuse yourself and find the shelter. Then firmly plant your flag and announce, "I hereby claim this shelter for Spain!"

2) If you need to change your clothes in the shelter, announce that you are about to do so. This allows some to avert their eyes, and others to charge up the flashes on their cameras. Inviting others to get naked with you is considered polite and classy.

3) All softball played inside the shelter must be slow pitch only.

4) If you absolutely must ingest illegal drugs, do so while wearing a full indian war bonnet, and claim that it is for sacramental purposes only.

5)Walking on the sleeping deck in boots is only permitted if said boots have clear heels filled with goldfish.

6)Only one tuba solo per evening.

7)Building a fire inside the shelter is only permitted if
a)it is very cold
b)the fuel is all deadfall
c)you are as stupid and insane as a syphilitic donkey

8) No couscous.

9) Nine PM is considered hiker midnight. After this time, the only songs that can be sung aloud are "The Humpty Dance," "Baby Got Back," and "Desperado." (New Jersey only)

10) If you insist on bringing him with you, you must be understanding of the fact that sooner or later someone is going to try to eat your dog.

CaseyB
10-20-2007, 00:31
12 pages in less than 2 days, fastest I've seen since joining.

Topcat
10-20-2007, 11:21
If anyone saw 2000 miles to Maine, one of the funniest scenes was when an older guy (I think he said his name was Pa) walked into a shelter area and asked if there were any room. Someone said "Sure, there is room under the shelter"...the look on his face was classic

WILKEBEAST
10-20-2007, 13:52
although i never encountered this personally, i've heard stories of families trying to commandeer empty shelters for themselves because of religious reasons. mainly them having daughters and not wanting them sleeping in the same general area as men.

i can sleep pretty much anywhere if i'm tired. mice never bothered me, or any other wild animal for that matter. had a couple run ins with dogs. one being the begging dog while trying to eat lunch, owner couldn't have cared less that it was begging. another was the dog that rolled around on my sleeping bag, in a 12 man shelter with only 2 spots taken up. couldn't tell if he was trying to improve his smell or the bags smell. and the other was the best. the german shepard that barked at me regardless of what i did. walked into the shelter area on the south side of mt. greylock, the dog barked relentlessly. went to get water, on the way back, dog went into another fit. got up in the middle of the night to urinate, spas out number 3. the 2 section hikers got to the top of greylock before me the next day, when i got there the dog went into yet another fit. so i just couldn't win with this thing. and i had just had a shower the day before.

my point- keep the dogs out, unless they are well trained.

EWS
10-20-2007, 23:40
although i never encountered this personally, i've heard stories of families trying to commandeer empty shelters for themselves because of religious reasons. mainly them having daughters and not wanting them sleeping in the same general area as men.


Then they should tent, stay at home, or join modern day society.

Coogen
10-21-2007, 00:24
Damn, didnt know it was that complicated to sleep in a shelter. I have a tent and will use that as much as i can. Worse case, I'll dump in the shelter and let it ward off people (j/k).