View Full Version : Propane tent heater
brotheral
10-21-2007, 13:55
I'm going to be camping (not backpacking)with my girlfriend in the Smokys end of Oct into Nov. Temps at night may dip into the 30's. Even with a -15 degree bag she gets chilly. I'm looking for suggestions on good / safe propane heaters. We'll be in a Sierra Designs Nomad 5 tent. appx 8'x10' with 6' height. It's a fantastic tent. She doesn't like the small ones...
I was looking at the Coleman Sportcat. I would appreciate any constructive suggestions..:-?
Thanks....BrotherAL
Waterbuffalo
10-21-2007, 14:23
I reccomend against a heater in a tent with out proper ventalation it could build up CO2 in the tent making it deadly
brotheral
10-21-2007, 14:48
The sportcat uses a flameless catalytic process... I don't think emissions are a safety issue here. The Nomad 5 has alot of screen mesh = ample ventilation. I'm looking for feedback from someone that has used this type of heater or another type that worked or didn't work well. Nothing electric !!
take-a-knee
10-21-2007, 15:06
Don't depend on the heater to keep you warm while sleeping, have enough sleeping bag to keep you warm without the heater. Have the heater ready to go in the morning so the tent can be warmed up to get dressed. This is what the guys do with their silnylon teepee/woodstove setups. Going into any environment without enough sleeping gear to keep you warm is asking for a sufferfest, or worse.
Brotheral,
Putting a propane heater in a tent is a death wish. Carbon Monoxide is odorless and deadly. A flameless catalytic heater is uses combustion to generate heat. Combustion heaters generate CO. You would be much better off at a site with power to run an extension cord to an electric blanket. Teepee heaters have a draft vent to discharge the combustion products out of the tent. See the attached links. http://www.titaniumgoat.com/cstove.html http://www.titaniumgoat.com/stoves.html
Focus on other means of staying warm. Did you say the bag has a minus 15 rating and your girlfriend is still cold at 30*?
If you meant 15*, you may consider renting a 0* bag from REI.
Put up a tarp for a wind block or choose a well protected site.
Make sure that you have at least an R4 pad to sleep on. http://www.pacoutdoor.com/2006/index.cfm?action=product&productID=4&groupID=1&familyID=1 I use a pad on top of a thermarest when sleeping on the ground instead of in my hammock.
Wear a fleece warm up & stocking cap or use a fleece liner w/ a cap. DSoTM reminded me of another thing. Do not wear constricting thermals or socks to bed as they inhibit blood flow. Make sure your thermals fit.
Wear wool &/or down. NO COTTON.
Go to bed with a full stomach & top it off with hot cider or tea.
Take a well sealed bottle of hot water in your sleeping bag with you. I use the old style thick walled Gatorade bottle. (not the type with the twist spout top). These are better than the chemical heat packs.
Pour boiling water in a vacuum bottle and bring it into your tent at bedtime. It will still be warm in the morning. Drink hot water during the day. I fill my Platy with hot water and still have a icing problem by the end of the day. I usually forget to blow out the tube and it freezes in the tube.
Have a campfire if camping in front country. Campfires are banned in back country now due to the drought.
Prepare for temps down to the low twenties or high teens, not dipping into the thirties at GSMNP in late November.
It should be a good time. Winter camping is the best.
Enjoy.
Egads
wrongway_08
10-21-2007, 15:13
Not worth it. Just deal with the cold.
Warm bag, warm clothes, all you need.
Toolshed
10-21-2007, 15:17
I'm going to be camping (not backpacking)with my girlfriend in the Smokys end of Oct into Nov. Temps at night may dip into the 30's. Even with a -15 degree bag she gets chilly. I'm looking for suggestions on good / safe propane heaters. We'll be in a Sierra Designs Nomad 5 tent. appx 8'x10' with 6' height. It's a fantastic tent. She doesn't like the small ones...
I was looking at the Coleman Sportcat. I would appreciate any constructive suggestions..:-?
Thanks....BrotherAL
May dip into the 30's. Sorry, but that's not really cold. I wouldn't take a chance falling asleep in a tent with a propane heater, regardless of what anyone says. In a smaller tent and two of you you might stay 10-15 degrees warmer than the outside air. In that big tent, it probably won't matter - you might be a couple of degrees warmer, but not much.
If she is cold in a -15 bag, you might as well just moel and day hike.
If she is cold in a 15 degree bag, use a nalgene bottle full of boiling water (Test the lid) in her bag 30 minutes prior to going to bed let her wrap her feet around it all night. have her wear a knit cap and thick wool socks to bed. Eat high fat food and high sugar foods for dinner to help keep you warm.
I REALLY don't think a heater is a good idea. Boil some water, fill a couple nalgenes, put'm in socks in you sleeping bags........works great! Anyway, if you're in the Smokies, won't you have to stay in a shelter?? They have fireplaces in them that make the shelters toasty warm!!!!
Baum Trigger
10-21-2007, 16:09
I REALLY don't think a heater is a good idea. Boil some water, fill a couple nalgenes, put'm in socks in you sleeping bags........works great! Anyway, if you're in the Smokies, won't you have to stay in a shelter?? They have fireplaces in them that make the shelters toasty warm!!!!
The smokies contains over 100 backcountry tent sites as well as many campgrounds for campers,rvs,tenting, etc.
brotheral
10-21-2007, 16:24
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to forget about the heater idea. I looked into it because she keeps asking if we can get one... I'll be just fine in my 20 deg bag. I'll bring my merino and fleece & have her do the same. She'll sleep on a cot with my thermarest self inflating lite-foam mattress. It got down in the 30's a few years ago at Yellowstone and I had to throw a king sized comforter on top of her and the MINUS 15 degree rectangular bag. I think it's imp to have warm socks on and some comfortable fleece if you get cold easily.... I've got a pair of fleece polar skins I'll give her and heavy merino wool socks... Hat too... Thanks again all
I'm happy that she loves to camp......:sun
brotheral
10-21-2007, 16:25
The smokies contains over 100 backcountry tent sites as well as many campgrounds for campers,rvs,tenting, etc.
We'll be at Elkmont
She will be cold sleeping on a cot with an air mattress. Its just like sleeping in a hammock with the cold air under her. She needs at least an R4 or higher pad. You can double up a couple of ridge rests, Zlites, or Wally world blue foam pads.
Been there & done that from a hammock in the low 20s.
Egads
Contrary to the other posts, I have used my Catalytic propane heater in my cabin tent many times with no problems. Except that a cylinder will not last all night. Put on a full cylinder just before you go to sleep and you will be fine. It does knock the chill off and will even warm up the tent considerably even on low. For all the naysayers out there, the only time I had a problem with it was when I knocked it over and it melted a hole in the tent bottom. But that was easily patched and now I use a ground cover under that tent. These heaters are rated for tents and any other enclosed areas esp. if they are not airtight. You could leave a window slightly open for some ventilation if you are not 100% sure of it. I just use a carbon monoxide fire detector for insurance. I have thought about hooking up my heater to my bulk 20# tank but after reading the instructions that warned against it, I decided not to risk it. I do agree with the other posts to be prepared with enough warm clothing and sleeping bags.
If it's a minus-15 rectangular bag, I think the key word giving y'all problems is rectangular. An appropriately-sized minus-15 mummy bag would be so much warmer.
Rift Zone
10-21-2007, 21:04
I'm also inclined to believe the cot is a bad idea -proper insulation from below seems to be her problem. Put a Ridgerest or similar closed-cell foam pad ON TOP of her Thermarest. Mighty comfy and plenty warm. I've slept on glaciers like that.
Lone Wolf
10-21-2007, 21:05
do some dayhiking then get a motel. a heater for a tent is weird.
Blue Wolf
10-21-2007, 21:13
Use a Coleman Powercat about 70.00 bucks and don't take oxygen from the air very nice radiant heater.
If it's a minus-15 rectangular bag, I think the key word giving y'all problems is rectangular. An appropriately-sized minus-15 mummy bag would be so much warmer.
the bag may also be too large for her or have lost its loft.
I've got a 0* bag that i may as well throw away since it is comfortable only down to about 50*. vs my new 15* kelty is comfortable down to atleast 20*.
skip the cot its worse than an airmatress for warmth or comfort. and probably pic up a different bag. i bet that will solve the cold problem.
CoyoteWhips
10-23-2007, 10:16
If you did pretend the cot was a hammock, you could add an underquilt! Use those big folder clips to tack a quilt or a space blanket under the cot. Lay out your open sleeping bag on top and it'd be like a wooly sandwich.
Aren't tent heaters designed for heating tents? Has there ever been an actual case of anybody dying of carbon monoxide from a tent heater in a tent?
I can recall having a coleman lantern in our big old canvas cabin tent when I was a kid. I figure it that didn't kill me, I'll be ok.
This past weekend, I took a friend car camping. As with your girlfriend, she was afraid of getting cold.
I did two things to keep her toasty.
1) I brought a queen size blow up mattress. The type you can buy in Wally World with a battery operated pump. Hey..we are car camping, who cares about the weight! I think this option is better than the cot.
2) Loaned her my winter bag.
We were camping in temps about high teens or low 20s.
Since you are car camping, take more and not less.
The combo of a thick pad and the warm bag kept her toasty. We also ate A LOT of food before going to bed. Calories are fuel..and you need them.
Have fun!
Aren't tent heaters designed for heating tents? Has there ever been an actual case of anybody dying of carbon monoxide from a tent heater in a tent?
I can recall having a coleman lantern in our big old canvas cabin tent when I was a kid. I figure it that didn't kill me, I'll be ok.
http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/documents/FACT/65-045-0503.pdf
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Carbon+monoxide+deaths+from+propane+heaters:+carbo n+monoxide+risks...-a0150359609
I've also read reports of tents catching on fire beause of heaters.
Most of these tent heaters are designed for tents much larger than the backpacking tents (like the cabin tents you and the other gentleman mentioned).
I'd be hesitant to use a heater in a small tent.
YMMV.
Canvas lights a whole lot harder than nylon.
Burns different.
She won't be amused if you set her on fire.
CoyoteWhips
10-23-2007, 11:13
http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/documents/FACT/65-045-0503.pdf
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Carbon+monoxide+deaths+from+propane+heaters:+carbo n+monoxide+risks...-a0150359609
Your examples seem to illustrate my point. The first was a warning to use tent heaters in tents and not indoors. The second example was a man using a heater that was clearly labelled against tent use.
Yeah, two people and a burning heater in a small tent seems like a bad idea. But it the tent is large enough for a cot, seems like there'd be space for a heater.
I reccomend against a heater in a tent with out proper ventalation it could build up CO2 in the tent making it deadly
Putting a propane heater in a tent is a death wish. Carbon Monoxide is odorless and deadly. A tad alarmist. Unvented propane heaters do not produce CO or CO2 in quantities high enough to be dangerous (Co and CO2 are produced only during startup and shut down). The danger from unvented propane heaters has nothing to do with emissions - it is oxygen depletion. The heater uses oxygen in the burning process and needs to be replaced, and so should not be used in an airtight environment. This will not be an issue with a tent, or in almost any home in the world. Millions of people heat apartments, homes and garages with unvented propane and natural gas heaters, and of course home gas stoves and ovens are rarely vented.
The danger in tents would be fire, and that would be enough for me to keep them out of my tent. Nylon burns rapidly.
30* IS cold. Damn cold. You need gear to keep warm. If you are car camping, rather than a heater, consider putting a reflective tarp on the floor of the tent, then a couple of pads (blue sleeping pads from Walmart will work), then have some blankets and/or quilts to lay on top of the sleeping bag. Cover the whole snuggly pile with another reflective tarp (this on facing down).
That should keep you cozy well below 30*
The suggestion of a hot-water filled Nalgen is an excellent one. Slip it in a sock becasue it will be HOT. Two work well - one at the foot of the bag to keep feet warm, and one between you thighs on on your belly.
For emergency use, consider chemical and foot warmers:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39157510&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11266&memberId=12500226
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=1027&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
Yeah, two people and a burning heater in a small tent seems like a bad idea. But it the tent is large enough for a cot, seems like there'd be space for a heater.
Maybe..
How big of a tent are we talking about?
As mudhead said, nylon and heat sources seem..er, worrisome. :)
To be honest, I'd more worried about a tent catching on fire with a heater than ventilation.
budforester
10-23-2007, 13:30
A cot is not the warmest option, but use a 4- inch- thick foam pad and it might work fine. I wanted to suggest a portable electric heater, but Elkmont doesn't seem to offer electtric hookups.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to forget about the heater idea. I looked into it because she keeps asking if we can get one... I'll be just fine in my 20 deg bag. I'll bring my merino and fleece & have her do the same. She'll sleep on a cot with my thermarest self inflating lite-foam mattress. It got down in the 30's a few years ago at Yellowstone and I had to throw a king sized comforter on top of her and the MINUS 15 degree rectangular bag. I think it's imp to have warm socks on and some comfortable fleece if you get cold easily.... I've got a pair of fleece polar skins I'll give her and heavy merino wool socks... Hat too... Thanks again all
I'm happy that she loves to camp......:sun
You'll want a closed cell pad to put down between the cot and the thermarest. This will help the thermarest stay warm and negates any convection issues with being off the ground.
OldStormcrow
10-23-2007, 14:41
I almost died from carbon monoxide poisoning while camping solo one -20 degree night. I was toting very inferior gear for that kind of weather and had hypothermia so bad that I had started hallucenating and seeing an imaginary companion.....who kept trying to talk me into coming outside of the tent. I decided to light my little propane stove just a wee bit to warm the inside of the tent up, and guess what? Fire needs oxygen to burn. It burnt up the oxygen and I passed out in a nylon tent that would burn to the ground in about 30 seconds if open flame had hit it. Fortunately, after I had "napped" for a bit I must have gotten a random breaze through the tent and managed to wake up. Seeing the stove still running beside me, I promptly turned it off and decided to take my chances with Mr. Hypothermia. If you are camping on the AT in the Smokies, I don't think you can tent camp anyway. If you are camping down off of the ridges on one of the blue-blazed trails the temps will be at least 10 degrees warmer. Just carry good gear......
Toolshed
10-23-2007, 19:12
30* IS cold. Damn cold.
It's all relative (My beleif is that anything that requires klister ain't cold). I would have expected someone named Frosty to be less sensitive to the cold :D
saimyoji
10-23-2007, 20:13
It's all relative (My beleif is that anything that requires klister ain't cold). I would have expected someone named Frosty to be less sensitive to the cold :D
Well, there's frosty....then there's.......the Dark Side of the Moon. Now thats cold. :D
At the PA Ruck I get an electric camp site and use a heating pad in my sleeping bag. Works so well that sometimes I have to unzip or turn it off in the middle of the night. You really only need it on for about 30 minutes to get warm then you can turn it off. I believe it is safe. Last year however we did have a power failure at our site but I brought a 100 foot outdoor extension cord and was able to get power from the adjacient site.
Panzer
BigwaveDave
10-24-2007, 15:56
Brotheral, If your taking your sweet one with you why would you need a heater? Spoon!
I camped with one of these things once and lived to tell about it. I was taking a group of teenage girls out for a weekend at the state park campground and one of them showed up with this heater her dad had bought for her. One of the gear geeks in the crowd looked it over and assured me it was okay... no fumes from this thing. So we set it up and turned it on. I did make the girls all sleep scrunched up against the walls as far from it as they could get. And of course I didn't sleep a wink cause I had one eye open watching the thing all night. It did however keep us very warm. The canister ran out sometime around daybreak making the tent seem even colder when it was time to get up.
My personal preference for car camping... full size air mattress with a big fluffy comforter... and of course someone to snuggle with. It's CAR camping!
I camped with one of these things once and lived to tell about it. I was taking
My personal preference for car camping... full size air mattress with a big fluffy comforter... and of course someone to snuggle with. It's CAR camping!
Yep. No such thing as lightweight car camping. :)
With winter approaching, a lot of gear is being discounted. So I've been fleshing out my car camping setup. (Built a sleep platform in my truck, have a three person "backpacking" tent I would never use for backpacking, etc.)
I now have two of these bags for car camping purposes. (http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=245534)They zip into a double bag. Warm and toasty!
Backpacking is my first love. But when a lady friend wants to go camping and hiking all weekend and NOT schlep a pack..well, I'm willing to be flexible. :)
Critterman
10-26-2007, 15:20
Mr. Heater - portable buddy http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails_extended.asp?catid=41&id=24
Brotheral, If your taking your sweet one with you why would you need a heater? Spoon!
Exactly. Shared bodily warmth is the way to go!
RiverWarriorPJ
10-26-2007, 16:43
I've been using the Coleman heaters 4 quite a while....4 "ConDo" camping (7x7 tent) I use the 3000 btu & 4 my 1 & 2 man tents I use the smaller 500 btu Coleman. And yes, venting is a must no matter the size of the tent or heater...
4eyedbuzzard
10-30-2007, 00:01
A tad alarmist. Unvented propane heaters do not produce CO or CO2 in quantities high enough to be dangerous (Co and CO2 are produced only during startup and shut down). The danger from unvented propane heaters has nothing to do with emissions - it is oxygen depletion. The heater uses oxygen in the burning process and needs to be replaced, and so should not be used in an airtight environment. This will not be an issue with a tent, or in almost any home in the world. Millions of people heat apartments, homes and garages with unvented propane and natural gas heaters, and of course home gas stoves and ovens are rarely vented.
The danger in tents would be fire...
Hi to all, many months since I've posted, busy with work, golf, and a couple short hikes. :)
CO2 and H2O are the major combustion products and are produced during the entire time the catalytic heater is on. And while CO production in a properly operating catalytic heater is less than an open flame, there is still plenty being produced from a health perspective. The difference between a catalytic heater and an open flame is that the catalytic screen allows the propane to combine (burn)with the Oxygen at a lower temperature and then produces radiant heat off the screen burner rather than heating the air (convection heat). You are correct in that the primary danger is one of oxygen depletion, but ANY enclosed space should always be ventilated when using any type of combustion heater including catalytic ones. Combustion is never perfect and some CO is always produced.
People have died using catalytic heaters in tents. And whether they die from CO poisoning or O2 depletion is rather immaterial. Either way they wake up dead.;)
NEVER leave any unvented combustion device on while you sleep.
budforester
10-30-2007, 08:16
Here is something I use regularly, but YMMV. A Coleman lantern will warm up my little cabin; the light reminds me to turn it off for sleeping; a bucket or pan suspended above it provides "free" warm water. In a 9 X 12 wall tent, the lantern will break the morning chill enough to get up and dressed, but does not produce enough heat to make it toasty- warm. I have not tried this in a nylon tent, fearing that the hot lantern- top may contact fabric and make an instant hole.
Brotheral,
How did your girlfriend handle the trip? How did you keep her warm? On second thought...
Egads
Phil1959
11-04-2007, 22:49
Love ya Lone Wolf! I was just passing time,reading this stuff,and you ended it right!
Tipi Walter
11-05-2007, 09:30
When I'm not out on a backpacking trip I live in a 12x12 Cabelas dome tent heated by a Mister Buddy propane stove. For the last 5 years it's been a good source of instant heat when basecamping at this big tent and a 20 pound bulk tank goes a long way before refilling.
When I lived in my Tipi I had a woodstove and a woodstove is definitely the prefrerred heating method in my mind, and so when I moved I decided to try something else and investigated woodstove-heated wall tents but decided on an enclosed zippered tent to keep out the scorpions and black widows so common here in the lowlands of east Tennessee.
Since then I've been using a Mr Buddy propane tent stove but I don't leave it running long, just enough to cut the chill in the morning and at night.