Knee pain question...

[paradoxb3]

First off, greetings to all! Have been lurking a few months, and here goes my first post.

Since the beginning of this year I've been getting more and more into hiking. I started out light and have got to where i can hike 10 to 15 miles a day on weekend trips, etc., but I have noticed I start having knee problems after a while. Flat ground doesnt bother me, and I can climb uphill at the steepest of trail angles, but downhill KILLS my knees. Sometimes its like every step is a dagger twisting in my joints. Then the terrain will flatten out or start back uphill, and its like the pain is immediately gone.

Is this something that you just go through getting used to carrying additional weight on your back, and will eventually go away? Am I setting myself up for an injury? I've always been fascinated by the AT, and I've been planning on a GA>ME thru in 2010 and am just worried that my knees might be too weak to make it. Has anyone else had similar experiences, and what did you do?

[Appalachian Tater]

Talk to an orthopaedist who specializes in sports medicine. Get a knee brace, do excercises, get the right shoes, get hiking poles, and lighten your pack. If you are overweight. lose weight.

[warraghiyagey]

First off, greetings to all! Have been lurking a few months, and here goes my first post.

Since the beginning of this year I've been getting more and more into hiking. I started out light and have got to where i can hike 10 to 15 miles a day on weekend trips, etc., but I have noticed I start having knee problems after a while. Flat ground doesnt bother me, and I can climb uphill at the steepest of trail angles, but downhill KILLS my knees. Sometimes its like every step is a dagger twisting in my joints. Then the terrain will flatten out or start back uphill, and its like the pain is immediately gone.

Is this something that you just go through getting used to carrying additional weight on your back, and will eventually go away? Am I setting myself up for an injury? I've always been fascinated by the AT, and I've been planning on a GA>ME thru in 2010 and am just worried that my knees might be too weak to make it. Has anyone else had similar experiences, and what did you do?

Downhill knee pain is tyical. Taters suggestions are right on target. Other suggestions would be to take Glucosamine. It ABSOLUTELY made a difference for me and you can find threads on this topic right here on WB.
And the best favor you can do your body is s t r e t c h. Everyday. More than once if you have time.
Those who haven't experienced knee pain while hiking are the blessed few. Enjoy the trail. Oh. . . and this is important too.

:welcome :welcome :welcome

[mobileman]

A good idea would be to see your family doctor. He would be familiar with your general health, also with any previous illness or injury you have had. He could recomend x-rays, scans or a specialist if necessary. A good physical exam would prevent surprises that could cut your hike short, also assuring you of your own good health. It would be a good idea to do this prior to investing a lot of money in equipment or planning. If a job (which means money and/or health insurance) is involved, it could affect your planning.

[take-a-knee]

Ditto what Tater said, I have an idea or two what might be wrong with your knee but it would only be a guess. You need to see someone who rebuilds knees for a living and get it checked out. I wouldn't wait. The Glucosamine/chondrotin won't hurt.

[Tennessee Viking]

Classic symptoms of trail knee. I recently pulled a muscle below my knee cap, and it scared me when a huge swollen knot showed up. But did some home treatment and it is going away.

If the pain is chronic, then you will probably have to go see a doctor.

But if its mainly when you hike or put a lot of strain or weight on your knees, then try some home remedies first to see it works.

-When sitting down, try as much to use a heating pad.
-When out and about, use heat patches or pain relief ointment.
-If not already, take vitamin supplements. Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc, Glucosamine, and anything else for bones, muscles, & joints.
-Increase you water intake at home.
-Small excercises and therapy to build muscle tone.
-some say to lay off heavy sodium foods and soft drinks
-start walking streets and sidewalks.

If swollen:
-When sleeping, have your knee elevated above your
-Start an ibuprofen regiment.
-Use a compression stocking, just comfortable fitting, but not too tight.

If it gets hurtful, lay off the hiking until a week after you stop having any pains.

You will probably will need to start hiking with a brace

[Phoenix Rising]

First off, greetings to all! Have been lurking a few months, and here goes my first post.

Since the beginning of this year I've been getting more and more into hiking. I started out light and have got to where i can hike 10 to 15 miles a day on weekend trips, etc., but I have noticed I start having knee problems after a while. Flat ground doesnt bother me, and I can climb uphill at the steepest of trail angles, but downhill KILLS my knees. Sometimes its like every step is a dagger twisting in my joints. Then the terrain will flatten out or start back uphill, and its like the pain is immediately gone.

Is this something that you just go through getting used to carrying additional weight on your back, and will eventually go away? Am I setting myself up for an injury? I've always been fascinated by the AT, and I've been planning on a GA>ME thru in 2010 and am just worried that my knees might be too weak to make it. Has anyone else had similar experiences, and what did you do?

I could have described that EXACT pain about 4 years ago… (I would tell people it felt like an ice pick being stabbed through the knee on a diagonal) I went to the Dr, and after an MRI didn’t show anything, was told it was tendonitis. I had been training for 3 “long distance” charity walks for the majority of 18 months when the pain started; and although at first it was just while going down stairs or hills, slowly it got worse and I would struggle even on flat surfaces after about 5 or 6 miles.

A few of the things I found helpful were hiking sticks (as others have said), patellar knee braces (the kind that goes under the knee cap – or even a rolled bandana can be used), weight lifting to balance the muscles of the thighs (hikers tend to have over developed quads – all those mountains - and weak hamstrings leading to an uneven pulling on the knee cap), but for me the biggest change came from having custom orthotics made by a podiatrist (a bit pricey but worth it).

I still hike with sticks and probably always will, but it is EXTREMELY rare for me to have any knee pain, and it’s been this way for years now. There is hope of relief, and most importantly, remember the mind can overcome anything and your body can heal it’s self if given the right tools. Good luck and happy healing!
Phoenix Rising

[Phoenix Rising]

-When sitting down, try as much to use a heating pad.


Heating pads should NEVER be used dry! Always place a wet wash cloth between the skin and the heat source (today's heating pads are made to be used wet or dry). Otherwise you are attempting to make jerky out of your muscles (literally) dehydrating them with the heat. And although you will feel temporary relief from the dry heating pad, the effects will be short term. Just something I have learn in school this year.
Phoenix Rising

[Mr. Clean]

What everyone else said. Hiking poles, glucosamine/condroitin, stretches, and leg excersise. Leg excersise for the knee muscles is easy; while sitting in a chair, simply lift leg straight out in front of you and hold. Repeat with other leg, over and over. You can do this at work, too.
Glucosamine is great, if I stop taking it, my legs will begin hurting again. It may take several weeks to see a difference, but keep at it.
Leg/calf stretches while hiking is important, too. About every ten minutes or so, I'll stand on a rock on just the front part of my foot and slowly let my heels sink down below the level of my toes. Hold this stretch for about a
minute.
With the poles, you should be well on your way to less knee pain. I had the exact same symptoms as you.

[sonic]

What everyone else said. Hiking poles, glucosamine/condroitin, stretches, and leg excersise. Leg excersise for the knee muscles is easy; while sitting in a chair, simply lift leg straight out in front of you and hold. Repeat with other leg, over and over. You can do this at work, too.
Glucosamine is great, if I stop taking it, my legs will begin hurting again. It may take several weeks to see a difference, but keep at it.
Leg/calf stretches while hiking is important, too. About every ten minutes or so, I'll stand on a rock on just the front part of my foot and slowly let my heels sink down below the level of my toes. Hold this stretch for about a
minute.
With the poles, you should be well on your way to less knee pain. I had the exact same symptoms as you.
I'll jump on this bandwagon, too. I am a firm believer in Glucosamine/Condroitin, poles and stretching. As long as I take it I'm fine, when I stop the pain returns. I even give it to my aging beagle! As for the exercises, I would also suggest strengthing the inner knee area, the toughest one to exercise. I use an elastic exercise band, attach it to my ankle and a table leg on the same side as my ankle, pull my leg across in front of the other leg several times. This has worked wonders for my knee strength. Good luck AND:welcome

[KirkMcquest]

Must use poles. Hike less miles.

[Skyline]

Another vote for Glucosomine Sulfate. Takes up to three months to really work, but from then on it's a maintenance thing. It is not a pain pill. It is a supplement that lubricates the joints so they work better, thus alleviating pain.

Two doctors and three pharmacists have told me not to waste my money on the more expensive Glucosomine with Condroiton. Plain ol' Glucosomine Sulfate works as well . . . the Condroiton won't hurt you, it just isn't necessary, they've said. YMMV.

[Reeper]

Try Glucosamine and look in to the Cho Pat Knee braces. I use both and man its really took care of my problems.

[burger]

For "trail knee" (more commonly known as runner's knee or patellar tendonitis), the absolute best thing you can do while hiking is to stretch your hamstrings and calf muscles often. When backpacking, I usually take a mile or so to warm up first thing in the morning (it's a bad idea to stretch cold muscles) and then do some good stretching. I stretch again after every break. Do this and you'll feel better instantly. And I should add--while it's important to keep your calves and hamstrings loose, you're better off with your quads tight, so don't stretch your quads, as this will only counteract the other stretches.

If you want to cure the problem, though, you'll need to do exercises to strengthen your quadriceps, specifically your inner quads. There are a bunch of good exercises at this site (http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/knee/runknee.htm). I really like the wall squats--I do 25 or so 3 times a week, and it's basically eliminated my knee problems.

The one thing I'd suggest is that you do something as soon as you can. You may only have pain on downhills right now, but it will get worse over time, and it can get so bad that you can't hike at all (I've been there--it sucks).

[Appalachian Tater]

Heating pads should NEVER be used dry! Always place a wet wash cloth between the skin and the heat source (today's heating pads are made to be used wet or dry). Otherwise you are attempting to make jerky out of your muscles (literally) dehydrating them with the heat. And although you will feel temporary relief from the dry heating pad, the effects will be short term. Just something I have learn in school this year.
Phoenix Rising

Be careful using a heating pad anywhere near anything wet unless it is specifically made for that and talks about it in the instructions or you can get electrocuted. "Moist heat" feels great but it's not like the moisture is drawn into the muscles through your skin and flesh.

Moist heat works very well on poultry and large cuts of meat when braising in a dutch oven or electric pot.

Also be careful not to fall asleep on top of a heating pad or you can cause serious burns. It is safer not to use an electric heating pad at all when you might fall asleep.

Heating pads affect temperature sensation to increase blood flow.

And Mr. McQuest gave the best advice of all for any sort of pain from hiking: hike fewer miles.

[paradoxb3]

Thanks all who have posted. Glad to finally get involved in the forum. To reply to some of you, I am not overweight. I am 6'0" and 180 lbs. Now, earlier this year I weighed about 210 lbs, and have lost it by jogging, hiking, caving, and just other general exercises, so I couldn't say I've been in good physical condition for a long time.

My pain is not cronic. After a while of flat terrain or even back uphill, it goes away, and it doesn't bother me much at all the next day. I figured it was probably mostly due to the fact that most average people arent used to walking up/down steep grades on a daily basis, and my body might eventually adjust and strengthen in the areas that were weak. I simply didn't want to overdo it this early on. I will DEFINATELY check into the glucosamine after hearing so many of you suggest it.

I do use hiking poles (2) and I can tell the difference. I usually carry about 30 lbs in my pack (that includes water, food, everything ready to go). It's an internal frame Deuter Vario Futura 50+10 and I feel its got good support and is very comfortable.

I have tried different footwear. New balance running shoes all the way up to high topped work boots. My feet and muscles never bother me, just my joints. Also, I stretch every time before hitting the trail.

Thanks again!

[Appalachian Tater]

You might benefit from some sort of knee support. There are even some that are just a strap that goes just under the patella to keep it from moving around so much. You might talk to a physician or physical therapist about it exactly what kind of knee support might benefit you or just try an over-the-counter one from the drugstore.

Something else to keep in mind is that you need to be well-hydrated. Your joint tissues and fluid are watery. Dehydration can cause joint pain.

[mudhead]

What is the normal glucosamine dose? I have been doing 1500mg/day.

Sufficient? Thanks.

[Appalachian Tater]

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/101260.shtml

[weary]

I worried about my knees when I decided to go to Springer and walk home in 1993. The best doc. I ever had said just go and start slow. Gradually, you and your knees will get stronger. Unfortunately, he quit medicine and took up tree farming.

Anyway. His advice was good. I started slow and eventually climbed Katahdin on Oct. 16 -- though I don't qualify as a thru hiker, I surprised even myself. I'll be forever grateful to him -- well as long as my mind remains lucid and thinking.

Weary

[RockStar]

Talk to an orthopaedist who specializes in sports medicine. Get a knee brace, do excercises, get the right shoes, get hiking poles, and lighten your pack. If you are overweight. lose weight.


What he said and Cho-Pat http://www.cho-pat.com/ I use the dual strap. Works wonders! :welcome

[Mr. Clean]

What is the normal glucosamine dose? I have been doing 1500mg/day.

Sufficient? Thanks.

I want to say mine are 1000 mg, and now that I've been on it for so long I'm taking one every other day. You can really feel it when you stop taking the stuff. I may try just the Glucosamine without controitin.

Definitely do stretches, definitely strengthen muscles around the knees. You'll feel much better.

[Skyline]

What is the normal glucosamine dose? I have been doing 1500mg/day.

Sufficient? Thanks.


When I first started on it 10 years ago, I took three 1000mg capsules per day. By the third month, I had backed off (with advice) to 1000mg per day. The thinking was I needed more to start with, but a good maintenance dose was 1000mg.

[mudhead]

Thank you!

[Hammock Hanger]

For "trail knee" (more commonly known as runner's knee or patella tendonitis), the absolute best thing you can do while hiking is to stretch your hamstrings and calf muscles often. When backpacking, I usually take a mile or so to warm up first thing in the morning (it's a bad idea to stretch cold muscles) and then do some good stretching. I stretch again after every break. Do this and you'll feel better instantly. And I should add--while it's important to keep your calves and hamstrings loose, you're better off with your quads tight, so don't stretch your quads, as this will only counteract the other stretches.

If you want to cure the problem, though, you'll need to do exercises to strengthen your quadriceps, specifically your inner quads. There are a bunch of good exercises at this site (http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/knee/runknee.htm). I really like the wall squats--I do 25 or so 3 times a week, and it's basically eliminated my knee problems.

The one thing I'd suggest is that you do something as soon as you can. You may only have pain on downhills right now, but it will get worse over time, and it can get so bad that you can't hike at all (I've been there--it sucks).

This summer I ended a hike early with "knee pain". Saw the ortho his xray showed arthritis. I mentioned that I had arthritis for sometime and that this pain was different. After further examination the diagnosis was "tendonitis". I have been going to Physical Therapy now for a couple of weeks. The electric stimuli feels great but other then that it is basically "exercises" to strengthen the muscles of the upper leg as Skyline stated.

It is a really long recouping period, so do the exercises and get tough as early as you can.

Good luck.

[Smile]

I've been planning on a GA>ME thru in 2010 and am just worried that my knees might be too weak to make it.

Looks like you are getting yourselfl ready in plenty of time, good to build up those weak spots. Happy planning! :)

[laserlips]

Find a surgeon who does a ton of arthroscopic procedures a year, and have them stick a camera in there and take a look at your articular surfaces.Healthy cartilage should look smooth.Over time,(you alluded to recently being heavier...and I'm guessing your height/weight made you a high school football candidate?)stress to the knees can make the articular surfaces look more like shag carpet.These strands can get pinched in the workings of the knee as you hike, causing pain.If this is the case...while she's in there the surgeon can shave the shaggy stuff off, smoothing the cartilage again.(or at least you could find out what's NOT the problem)
Oh, and glucosamine does work if you have enough of your own cartilage left to be stimulated into regrowth.(here's hoping that at 24 that's the case)The chondroitin preparations are what I have heard orthopedic surgeons recommend to patients who are lying on the table having the procedure I've just mentioned, as a way to keep OFF the OR table for a few years afterwards.

[Phlashlite]

During our recent thru hike my husband and I both found the Cho-Pat knee braces to help decrease the strain on your knees. they are comfortable to wear even in hot weather. We each used the same pair the entire hike. they really made a difference and are well worth the money.