View Full Version : Coping with civilization again?
As soon as I got back from my thru-hike I sort of got back in the groove right away... but there were still a lot of things I felt like I was missing. Anyone have some helpful ideas for how to fill those gaps in what you loved in life on the Trail but are missing now?
Believe it or not, I went shopping... I just got a new sudoku book and it felt really good to get out of the house, away from everyone, and just go off on my own and get something I liked. Sort of the same feelings as the Trail there, in a way.
- Sudoku
Jan LiteShoe
10-23-2007, 17:39
As soon as I got back from my thru-hike I sort of got back in the groove right away... but there were still a lot of things I felt like I was missing. Anyone have some helpful ideas for how to fill those gaps in what you loved in life on the Trail but are missing now?
Believe it or not, I went shopping... I just got a new sudoku book and it felt really good to get out of the house, away from everyone, and just go off on my own and get something I liked. Sort of the same feelings as the Trail there, in a way.
- Sudoku
I know what you mean, although you can't beat civilization for a good, comfortable mattress and cold drinks in the fridge. Call me soft...
:)
Well, after work, it really helps to go for a walk in the woods, look at the colors, acorns, birds, squirrels and the various plants. There's a stunning violet purple beautyberry "blooming" right now in the woods, and I like to angle my route to go look at it as I pass. Gets me out of my head and connected back to my feet, the natural world, my insides. All sorts of overlooked stuff from the day bubbles up - things I'd "noticed" but not paid attention to. It comes up to be dealt with. Quiet time, off computer, is good.
In fact, I'm headed out there now!
Footslogger
10-23-2007, 17:44
Yeah ...you can get sucked back up into the creature comfort world pretty quickly. Plus, you can't just burp, fart or urinate anywhere/anytime you want once you're back home.
I like Liteshoe's suggestion. I/we (wife and I) take long walks whenever we can and imagine that we are back out on the trail. There's actually a lot of beauty right in our neighborhoods if we can tune out the noise and foul smelling exhaust.
'Slogger
I am still trying to get back in the swing of things. I have found that so much happened while I was gone and my personal relationships felt the strain of my being gone for so long. Hey Soduko, send me an email I would love to get some of your pics.
Pedaling Fool
10-23-2007, 18:04
Yeah ...Plus, you can't just burp, fart or urinate anywhere/anytime you want once you're back home.
'Slogger
That was the hardest transition for me. Once, shortly after getting back I went to visit a friend and stopped at a liquor store to get some beer and tend to a much needed nature break, they did not have a bathroom and I had no problem taking care of business in the grassy area of their parking lot. As I was standing there I realized I would never of done this before my thru.
Blissful
10-23-2007, 20:15
To help me after the hike - I began a running program. I'm only running 3 miles, but I love being out in the sunshine and working out. It really helps me. And I don't feel like I'm wasting away or plumping out too much. :)
I also love looking at pictures of the hike. I look at them quite often.
CoyoteWhips
10-23-2007, 20:36
I had no problem taking care of business in the grassy area of their parking lot. As I was standing there I realized I would never of done this before my thru.
Yesterday I was peeing on a tree. Just then, I wondered why I needed a tree. Anyplace kind of downhill would have worked, right?
I also love looking at pictures of the hike. I look at them quite often.
I looked at pictures of my hike every day for several months. It was quite soothing.:rolleyes:
Then I started planning another hike.
I tried running, but going down the stairs was hard enough. Finally I think I can go running. I'll take 4 or 5 mile walks and do trail maintenence at with the local group. That seems to help the most.
GG
Just a Hiker
10-23-2007, 20:47
Life after a thru-hike is hard because I think we become emotionally attached to the trail and the life it provides. It's especially hard when the Appalachian Trail gives a person exactly what they were looking for to begin with. It's hard to recover from that.
Jim
Pedaling Fool
10-23-2007, 21:39
I looked at pictures of my hike every day for several months. It was quite soothing.:rolleyes:
Then I started planning another hike.
I have my computer randomly scroll through about 1,000 pics from my 2006 thru, probably why I had to do Springer to Damascus this year and why I'm now thinking about the BMT for next year.
notorius tic
10-23-2007, 22:01
I slept in my backyard. Even started some fires for the hell of it. My neighbors didnt like either but its still my yard...
Tipi Walter
10-23-2007, 23:23
I slept in my backyard. Even started some fires for the hell of it. My neighbors didnt like either but its still my yard...
Yeah, this is a good way to stay turned on and tuned in while making plans for the next long backpacking trip. Living in a tent in a yard is a great way to live between trips and why not? Who says the end of a thru-hike is the end of living outdoors and backpacking? Who says the teat of Syphilization even needs to be wholeheartedly suckled? And I wonder about thru-hikers who finish and never backpack again. Why? A life can be spent living out and backpacking, the AT experience could be a small footnote to an otherwise lengthy life spent pumping nylon in a variety of places. The worship of all things human(civilization)just ain't where it's at.
Oh, and another thing I've tried that keeps me in my comfort zone:
I like to refer to grocery stores as "resupply" to myself, and I can take a shortcut out of my neighborhood to walk to the grocery store so that it isn't much more than 2 miles round trip, and it is fun going over there with a small backpack and packing my food back with me. The store doesn't seem to mind the pack, though they do look confused when they ask "paper or plastic" and I say I need neither ;)
- Sudoku
Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 10:50
Oh, and another thing I've tried that keeps me in my comfort zone:
I like to refer to grocery stores as "resupply" to myself, and I can take a shortcut out of my neighborhood to walk to the grocery store so that it isn't much more than 2 miles round trip, and it is fun going over there with a small backpack and packing my food back with me. The store doesn't seem to mind the pack, though they do look confused when they ask "paper or plastic" and I say I need neither ;)
- Sudoku
But do you add up the weight as you put things in the basket?
Footslogger
10-24-2007, 10:51
But do you add up the weight as you put things in the basket?
===================================
...and do you sit outside the grocery store and repackage everything in ziplocks ??
'Slogger
Lone Wolf
10-24-2007, 10:52
But do you add up the weight as you put things in the basket?
only an anal weight-weenie would do that
Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 11:22
only an anal weight-weenie would do that
Do you know what a dingleberry is? That's what you're starting to remind me of.
Lone Wolf
10-24-2007, 11:24
Do you know what a dingleberry is? That's what you're starting to remind me of.
do you know what smegma is? you've always reminded me of it
Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 11:26
===================================
...and do you sit outside the grocery store and repackage everything in ziplocks ??
'Slogger
No, but I bought a bunch of chili-lime crackers at the dollar store and I took them out of the boxes because they're packed in mylar bags. The lady took them all back and didn't seem to care or find it unusual.
===================================
...and do you sit outside the grocery store and repackage everything in ziplocks ??
'Slogger
Hahaha... that is probably what I miss most about trail-town life: loitering outside grocery stores, eating subs, chips, yogurt, and soda for lunch, stripping down everything of its cardboard boxes and pouring all my noodles into one bag. Then I would take grocery bags and arrange pop tarts, lipton sides, and peanut butter packets into "days" so that I didn't accidentally tap into another day's food and run out too quickly.
I should do that here - reorganize everything in the pantry into plastic bags, of breakfast, lunch, dinner, and 4 snacks. That'd be awesome!
- Sudoku (:banana)
Hahaha... that is probably what I miss most about trail-town life: loitering outside grocery stores, eating subs, chips, yogurt, and soda for lunch, stripping down everything of its cardboard boxes and pouring all my noodles into one bag. Then I would take grocery bags and arrange pop tarts, lipton sides, and peanut butter packets into "days" so that I didn't accidentally tap into another day's food and run out too quickly.
I should do that here - reorganize everything in the pantry into plastic bags, of breakfast, lunch, dinner, and 4 snacks. That'd be awesome!
- Sudoku (:banana)
Actually, one of the best things about NOT being on the Trail is the ample supply of fresh food. I don't give myself permission to eat candy and ramen and that sort of stuff unless I'm hiking. If the craving gets too strong, off into the woods I have to go. At lunch time today I was making up a list of shopping for this weekend's little backpacking trip. Yummm.
Blissful
10-24-2007, 14:55
But I miss being able to eat what I want in towns and not worrying about it. Now I have to count calories, etc because the physical activity isn't there. I miss Dunkin Donuts. And buffets. :)
But I miss being able to eat what I want in towns and not worrying about it.
Ni sch!t. I lost 18 lbs. on this yr's hike and I've already gained back 10... in about a month. :o
Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 14:57
You guys watch out, it's easy to gain excess weight after your hike. You can end up bigger than you were before.
Blissful
10-24-2007, 15:08
Yeah I lost close to 30lbs but haven't gained too much back yet (maybe five lbs) - probably b/c of my GI problems. Finally broke down and bought a pair of cheap jeans for now as nothing fits. But I sure hope I don't get back to what I was.
Jan LiteShoe
10-24-2007, 15:08
Hahaha... that is probably what I miss most about trail-town life: loitering outside grocery stores, eating subs, chips, yogurt, and soda for lunch, stripping down everything of its cardboard boxes and pouring all my noodles into one bag. Then I would take grocery bags and arrange pop tarts, lipton sides, and peanut butter packets into "days" so that I didn't accidentally tap into another day's food and run out too quickly.
I should do that here - reorganize everything in the pantry into plastic bags, of breakfast, lunch, dinner, and 4 snacks. That'd be awesome!
- Sudoku (:banana)
Ha! It's be even better if you could get three shaggy, grimy buddies to do it along with you, and you all were laughing at stuff and looking up hopefully at passing shoppers/cars.
:)
the_iceman
10-31-2007, 06:04
Why do they have trees in the mall if you can’t pee on them?
I lost just under 40 pounds and I have been starving myself to not gain it back. Before my hike I used to drink tons of water but I drank so much hiking I kind of lost the taste. Most days on the trail I drank at least 6 liters of water and one hot day I drank 9 and pumped 3 more for camp. That's about 24 pounds of freakin water!
I am back to drinking 2 double espressos in the morning (I work at home a lot) then 1 at lunch and 1 at three. That puts me a little over the top now. I usually had 1 cup a day on the trail at breakfast with 2 coffee bags in a pint of water. Maybe this why I only sleep 5 or 6 hours a night?
I have been drinking a lot of fruit smoothies and eating a lot of vegetables. I avoid carbs like the plague now. So far I have been able to hold my weight within 5 pounds of my finish weight and I summitted about 5 weeks ago.
I am traveling this week again and eating in restaurants so we will see how I do. I have thrown myself into my work and have not made time for exercise. That and 2 weeks of rain make for good excuses. I need to get out there soon.
True story. For nearly the first year after my hike I would think about the trail every day. Some days for hours. I began wondering if a day would ever pass when I didn't think about my hike on the AT.
And then... it happened. I realized that on August 22, 2001 that I had gone a whole day without thinking of the trail. That would be the previous day - August 21, 2001. Which also happens to be the 1 year anniversary of my summiting Katahdin and finishing the trail.
Strange how that happened.
True story. For nearly the first year after my hike I would think about the trail every day. Some days for hours. I began wondering if a day would ever pass when I didn't think about my hike on the AT.
And then... it happened. I realized that on August 22, 2001 that I had gone a whole day without thinking of the trail. That would be the previous day - August 21, 2001. Which also happens to be the 1 year anniversary of my summiting Katahdin and finishing the trail.
Strange how that happened.
It has been 1 year and 3 months since I summited Katahdin, and I have not yet even come close to going a day without thinking about the trail. Most days I spend hours thinking about it. I cannot go more then a couple weeks without getting out and backpacking for at least a weekend, and try to get out for longer every chance I get.
My suggestion to anyone who can is do not put yourself in the position of having to coupe with civilization again, stay on the trail as much as possible. Civilization is over rated.
warren doyle
10-31-2007, 10:39
I never have had trouble adjusting back to the non-trail world. There is a time to hike and a time to work. I like both. As Robert Frost said in so many words, "My noblest aim in life is to make my avocation my vocation as my two eyes see as one."
I live about twelve miles from the trail by choice. I'm developing a Wilderness Studies minor here at Lees-McRae College and have hope to develop an Appalachian Trail Semester here in the near future.
The trail is internalized in my mind and spirit. It is both my faith and reason - a constant 'higher love'.
I actively support my wife, son and daughter's Appalachian Trail hiking interests and dreams. I help others fulfill their AT thru-hike dreams by offering two seesion of the Appalachian Trail Institute a year. I am excited about starting the preparation for my eighth, and probably last, non-commercial group circle expedition up the entire trail in 2010. I am systematically engaged in completing my 15th AT hike (4/5/10) by spending three to four weeks a year hiking sections. In addition, I get a 'trail recharge' every time I share my slide/music AT show, trail stories, and Circle of Dreams with various audiences throughout the year. Attending Trail Days and Gatherings also facilitate keeping the trail aglow in my being.
I share my AT archives with visiting researchers.
I feel content that I can flow between the 'real' world and the 'trail' world without becoming entrapped in either. I'm glad I'm neither a trail 'bum' nor a 45-60 hour a week unhappy, regretful and indebted worker bee.
Life is about making choices. Choices one makes early in life can lead one in a direction, that might be hard to change, towards a destination that one later decides they don't want to get to.
Happy trails!
I never have had trouble adjusting back to the non-trail world. There is a time to hike and a time to work. I like both. As Robert Frost said in so many words, "My noblest aim in life is to make my avocation my vocation as my two eyes see as one."
I live about twelve miles from the trail by choice. I'm developing a Wilderness Studies minor here at Lees-McRae College and have hope to develop an Appalachian Trail Semester here in the near future.
The trail is internalized in my mind and spirit. It is both my faith and reason - a constant 'higher love'.
I actively support my wife, son and daughter's Appalachian Trail hiking interests and dreams. I help others fulfill their AT thru-hike dreams by offering two seesion of the Appalachian Trail Institute a year. I am excited about starting the preparation for my eighth, and probably last, non-commercial group circle expedition up the entire trail in 2010. I am systematically engaged in completing my 15th AT hike (4/5/10) by spending three to four weeks a year hiking sections. In addition, I get a 'trail recharge' every time I share my slide/music AT show, trail stories, and Circle of Dreams with various audiences throughout the year. Attending Trail Days and Gatherings also facilitate keeping the trail aglow in my being.
I share my AT archives with visiting researchers.
I feel content that I can flow between the 'real' world and the 'trail' world without becoming entrapped in either. I'm glad I'm neither a trail 'bum' nor a 45-60 hour a week unhappy, regretful and indebted worker bee.
Life is about making choices. Choices one makes early in life can lead one in a direction, that might be hard to change, towards a destination that one later decides they don't want to get to.
Happy trails!
You have found a way to balance your professional career with your "higher love". It gives hope to those who cannot, or are not willing to, temporarily walk-away from a career, and life's responsibilities, to thru-hike the Trail.
This is an honest and introspective post, Warren, and far more beneficial to others than comments about stealthing movies or fording the Kennebec.
warren doyle
10-31-2007, 17:27
Roland,
Thanks for your kind and insightful post.
I would like to believe that my movie-stealthing/eating leftovers behaviors/beliefs represent less than 1% of my being. These are the 'skeletons in my closet' - the skeletons are miniscule compared to the size of the closet. I'm content (not ashamed) with that proportion.
Roland,
Thanks for your kind and insightful post.
I would like to believe that my movie-stealthing/eating leftovers behaviors/beliefs represent less than 1% of my being. These are the 'skeletons in my closet' - the skeletons are miniscule compared to the size of the closet. I'm content (not ashamed) with that proportion.
Warren;
Why don't you go out of your way to patronize the few remaining family owned theaters instead of stealing from the mega chains and making a point out of it on a hiking website? Wouldn't that serve the greater good? Or is it all about keeping money in your pocket?
warren doyle
10-31-2007, 18:39
MOWGLI16,
First of all, I don't consider it stealing from anyone. Others are free to respectfully disagree with that logic.
We pay admission to enter the theatre and see the first movie and then continue to see other movies that we want to see, and that we are able to see.
If this procedure/behavior was conceidered a real problem, the theatre would either ressign an existing employee to prevent movie stealthing (an easy thing to do) or hire another person for that specific duty. If they cannot afford to do this staffing-wise, they can easily post that movie-stealthing is not allowed in the opening screen frames along with the 'shutting your cellphone off', 'where the nearest exit is', etc. In all my years of movie-stealthing, I have not seen anything posted prohibiting this activity.
There have been several times when we were the only ones in the theatre, on our 2nd to 6th movie, and the movie is still programmed to play, by a machine, at that showing time. I also remember the times when you paid one admission for a double bill.
On my moral/ethical compass, I consider movie-stealthing in a different direction than shoplifting from a retail store. I have no desire to ever do the latter because I would consider that stealing. Even in an AYCE buffet, I don't share my food because "no sharing of food" is usually posted.
People should be free to interpret what is right and wrong for themselves.
Most would consider movie-stealthing wrong for themselves and that's fine.
(Likewise, many would consider war justifiable while less would consider it a form of institutionalized violence and murder.)
I have never seen another person, let alone a White Blazer, movie stealth. But in all honesty if I do, I might just offer them some of our leftover popcorn along with sharing a smile.
Happy trails!
Speaking of popcorn, we're gonna need some if we're gonna watch this thread. We all know where this is headed. Rock, you'd do well to shut this sumbitch down now.
So there is no right & wrong? There is a gradient that is subject to individual interpretation?
I think you know it's wrong. Why else would have to use "stealth" to do what you do if it wasn't against the law? When you purchase a ticket from a theater, the name of the film you paid to see is clearly printed on the stub.
I don't buy your rationalization. It's simply moral relativism in my book.
warren doyle
10-31-2007, 19:19
Moral relativism? I don't really know what it means but "I'm guilty as charged!"
And its okay if you don't 'buy' my rationalization but you are free to 'stealth' it if you want.
Even in an AYCE buffet, I don't share my food because "no sharing of food" is usually posted.Note to Warren: You may wish to stay away from movies shown by "The Regal Entertainment Group". Not sure if they have them in your neck of the woods, but they are pretty big up north.
Why? Well, I happen to have a ticket in my hands now and right below "Admit One" it reads "Good for date and showtime listed only"
Just thought you should know.
Lone Wolf
10-31-2007, 19:40
warren is my hero. i learned everything AT from him. Bon appetit!! :banana
Lone Wolf
10-31-2007, 19:42
Note to Warren: You may wish to stay away from movies shown by "The Regal Entertainment Group".
you're totally sounding like Jack Tarlin now. what's next? in closing, in short :D
No, Jack thinks this sort of thing is more important than life on mars. I celebrate diversity on the Trail. We could use more of it.
Now please go shave that beard and buy a new hat. As a Trail Elder you should set a better example for the youth.
vaporjourney
10-31-2007, 20:33
I finished my thru in the beginning of sept, but just got 'home' 8 days ago, back from a month and a half of hitchhiking which immediately followed my summit day. Now that I'm back, all i can think about is the PCT. At first i was thinking of some jobs which might interest me, and ways i could get into those fields. The more i thought about it though, the more I realized that I really didn't want to enter a 'normal' life just yet. The idea of settling down and having a job didn't interest me at all, and i actually oppose it. I don't want my adventures to be limited to 2 weeks of vacation a year. I do know that there are careers out there where you have a much more flexible schedule, but I haven't found that position that fits me yet. So, until then, I say I should keep traveling. I'm surprised that no one else has had this view, but maybe that's a good thing. It's not just that I loved the AT experience, and long-form travel in general, but it's my dislike of a static life, and my inability to live within that. So I won't...for now. I'm going to try to work for the next 6 months and save up money for the PCT. Doing some math today i realized that it was possible. I may have to work 2 jobs for a bit, but I think its worth it for 6 months of total freedom. Good luck to all of you who are coming to grips with a restricted lifestyle like I am...
sloopjonboswell
10-31-2007, 20:52
sucks dont it?
Ni sch!t. I lost 18 lbs. on this yr's hike and I've already gained back 10... in about a month. :o
After 10 years of thinking about it, I've lost 10 pounds over the past few months. How? It's been simple. I started using smaller plates -- which both restrict my immediate intake and remind me that I needed to lose a few pounds.
Weary
Appalachian Tater
10-31-2007, 21:44
MOWGLI16,
First of all, I don't consider it stealing from anyone. Others are free to respectfully disagree with that logic.
We pay admission to enter the theatre and see the first movie and then continue to see other movies that we want to see, and that we are able to see.
If this procedure/behavior was conceidered a real problem, the theatre would either ressign an existing employee to prevent movie stealthing (an easy thing to do) or hire another person for that specific duty. If they cannot afford to do this staffing-wise, they can easily post that movie-stealthing is not allowed in the opening screen frames along with the 'shutting your cellphone off', 'where the nearest exit is', etc. In all my years of movie-stealthing, I have not seen anything posted prohibiting this activity.
There have been several times when we were the only ones in the theatre, on our 2nd to 6th movie, and the movie is still programmed to play, by a machine, at that showing time. I also remember the times when you paid one admission for a double bill.
On my moral/ethical compass, I consider movie-stealthing in a different direction than shoplifting from a retail store. I have no desire to ever do the latter because I would consider that stealing. Even in an AYCE buffet, I don't share my food because "no sharing of food" is usually posted.
People should be free to interpret what is right and wrong for themselves.
Most would consider movie-stealthing wrong for themselves and that's fine.
(Likewise, many would consider war justifiable while less would consider it a form of institutionalized violence and murder.)
I have never seen another person, let alone a White Blazer, movie stealth. But in all honesty if I do, I might just offer them some of our leftover popcorn along with sharing a smile.
Happy trails!
I worked in a movie theater for the summer when I was 17. You're a thief when you "stealth" a movie and you're breaking the law. The ticket clearly states what movie it's good for. If I had caught you, and you were a kid, you would have been ejected the first time and the police would have been called the second time. If an adult had been caught, the police would have been called the first time. (Not that normal adults do this, usually it's young teenagers.)
You can say what ever you want and justify it in your mind, but you're an admitted criminal. And it's repulsive, not amusing.
Lone Wolf
10-31-2007, 21:53
oh calm down. it's hardly a crime. :rolleyes:
You can say what ever you want and justify it in your mind, but you're an admitted criminal. And it's repulsive, not amusing.
In the overall scheme of things, it's piddling. Save your indignation for stuff that matters (in the political forum, perhaps.)
Appalachian Tater
10-31-2007, 21:57
In the overall scheme of things, it's piddling. Save your indignation for stuff that matters (in the political forum, perhaps.)
It's theft of services and it is indeed a misdemeanor. But it does show what kind of person he is that he is not ashamed of it.
vaporjourney
10-31-2007, 21:58
In the overall scheme of things, it's piddling. Save your indignation for stuff that matters (in the political forum, perhaps.)
thank you. To quote The Breadless Horseman who thruhiked this year: 'Winning an internet argument is like winning the special olympics. Either way you're still retarded'. I know its offensive...but come on.
It's theft of services and it is indeed a misdemeanor. But it does show what kind of person he is that he is not ashamed of it.
You are one of the biggest wet towels I have ever seen...
I know what you mean, although you can't beat civilization for a good, comfortable mattress and cold drinks in the fridge. Call me soft...
:)
Well, after work, it really helps to go for a walk in the woods, look at the colors, acorns, birds, squirrels and the various plants. There's a stunning violet purple beautyberry "blooming" right now in the woods, and I like to angle my route to go look at it as I pass. Gets me out of my head and connected back to my feet, the natural world, my insides. All sorts of overlooked stuff from the day bubbles up - things I'd "noticed" but not paid attention to. It comes up to be dealt with. Quiet time, off computer, is good.
In fact, I'm headed out there now!
I doubt if those of us who enjoyed the trail and the trail experience ever "get over" the experience or the regret of not being able to do the same again.
I used to think of the trail daily. Fifteen years later it tends to be "every few days." I continue to dream of going back. But for multiple reasons that is impossible -- health, family, trail projects, land protection efforts....
Weary www.matlt.org
Jan:
We purchased some purple beautyberries for our yard. They are indeed beautiful! Have you ever seen white ones? One of my favorites is "Hearts a Bursting." That's a fall bloomer. September here in Chattanooga.
Jan LiteShoe
10-31-2007, 22:45
Jan:
We purchased some purple beautyberries for our yard. They are indeed beautiful! Have you ever seen white ones? One of my favorites is "Hearts a Bursting." That's a fall bloomer. September here in Chattanooga.
Excellent! I'm looking for the large-berried purple form (americana).
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAAM2
It makes a sprawling plant, so nurseries here carry the tidier, tamer (and less vivid berried) species (japanonica)
Do you have a source?
We went out walking in the woods after dark tonight. Great way to celebrate Halloween.
:)
Excellent! I'm looking for the large-berried purple form (americana).
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAAM2
It makes a sprawling plant, so nurseries here carry the tidier, tamer (and less vivid berried) species (japanonica)
Do you have a source?
We went out walking in the woods after dark tonight. Great way to celebrate Halloween.
:)
They are sold at Reflection Riding Arboretum & Botanical Garden here in Chattanooga. Iffin you and me both find ourselves at the SORUCK, I might be able to bring you a couple of plants.
Jan LiteShoe
10-31-2007, 23:14
They are sold at Reflection Riding Arboretum & Botanical Garden here in Chattanooga. Iffin you and me both find ourselves at the SORUCK, I might be able to bring you a couple of plants.
I will be in attendance. Let's talk after Christmas.
:sun
I will be in attendance. Let's talk after Christmas.
:sun
Ho Ho Ho :sun
Lone Wolf
10-31-2007, 23:22
Ho Ho Ho :sun
nappy headed?
I finished my thru in the beginning of sept, but just got 'home' 8 days ago, back from a month and a half of hitchhiking which immediately followed my summit day. Now that I'm back, all i can think about is the PCT. At first i was thinking of some jobs which might interest me, and ways i could get into those fields. The more i thought about it though, the more I realized that I really didn't want to enter a 'normal' life just yet. The idea of settling down and having a job didn't interest me at all, and i actually oppose it. I don't want my adventures to be limited to 2 weeks of vacation a year. I do know that there are careers out there where you have a much more flexible schedule, but I haven't found that position that fits me yet. So, until then, I say I should keep traveling. I'm surprised that no one else has had this view, but maybe that's a good thing. It's not just that I loved the AT experience, and long-form travel in general, but it's my dislike of a static life, and my inability to live within that. So I won't...for now. I'm going to try to work for the next 6 months and save up money for the PCT. Doing some math today i realized that it was possible. I may have to work 2 jobs for a bit, but I think its worth it for 6 months of total freedom. Good luck to all of you who are coming to grips with a restricted lifestyle like I am...
I met a man in 1980 who had taken on this philosophy. At the time I met him he had a college degree, but had adopted the lifestyle of working three months each year, living (in his words) "very frugily", then traveling the other 9 months. The trips that I know he has been on include: Hiking across the US, the AT, PCT, bicycled the perimeter of the US, Bicycled from Fairbanks Alaska to Key West (his "Tundra to Tropics" tour), hiked Baja, Bicycled the perimeter of Austrailia, and canoed the Everglades. I'm sure he has probably done much more that I don't know about. He is a very happy, vibrant person. And before people assume otherwise, the doesn't drink, doesn't smoke (anything), has never used drugs, and remains very healthy. He is currently an activist in his small, home community, promoting bicycycle/walking friendly streets and business - very effective too I might add.
nappy headed?
No Imus. :sun
Uncle Silly
11-01-2007, 10:40
It's theft of services and it is indeed a misdemeanor. But it does show what kind of person he is that he is not ashamed of it.
I've found that one hallmark of a thinking man is realizing he doesn't need to be ashamed at certain things that might be illegal. Giving your 10-year-old a sip of beer because he's curious? Illegal, but nothing for a sane parent to be ashamed of. Travelling 70mph in a 65mph zone? Illegal, but nothing to be ashamed of (as long as you maintain control of the vehicle). Sex in a non-missionary position? Illegal (in some states), but nothing to be ashamed of.
Smoking pot? Illegal (in the opinion of the federal gov't); Legal (in some circumstances, in the opinion of some states); NONE OF THEIR F'ING BUSINESS (in my personal opinion). Nothing to be ashamed of.
Just because some legislature has declared something a crime doesn't mean it actually is. You're guilty of the reverse here, Tater, that is, blindly supporting the law, and you should be ashamed of that.
I've found that one hallmark of a thinking man is realizing he doesn't need to be ashamed at certain things that might be illegal. Giving your 10-year-old a sip of beer because he's curious? Illegal, but nothing for a sane parent to be ashamed of. Travelling 70mph in a 65mph zone? Illegal, but nothing to be ashamed of (as long as you maintain control of the vehicle). Sex in a non-missionary position? Illegal (in some states), but nothing to be ashamed of.
Smoking pot? Illegal (in the opinion of the federal gov't); Legal (in some circumstances, in the opinion of some states); NONE OF THEIR F'ING BUSINESS (in my personal opinion). Nothing to be ashamed of.
Just because some legislature has declared something a crime doesn't mean it actually is. You're guilty of the reverse here, Tater, that is, blindly supporting the law, and you should be ashamed of that.
One of the sanest posts I've read in a long time. Thank you.
Most folks assume that the law exists to curb other people's deviant tendencies. Not necessarily their own.
When I think of "theft," for example, I think of Halliburton and Blackwater and defense contractors cheating US taxpayers out of billions of dollars... not Warren Doyle sneaking into movie theaters. LOL, get some perspective, folks.
Appalachian Tater
11-01-2007, 11:18
Just because some legislature has declared something a crime doesn't mean it actually is. You're guilty of the reverse here, Tater, that is, blindly supporting the law, and you should be ashamed of that.
Right.
I believe that stealing is wrong and bragging about it is wrong, too. Irregardless of the legality of it. Most of the bad things that are done are not illegal. In this case, it happens to be both.
Adding this: and you people who condone his thieving (and especially those who then complain about Blackwater) are wrong, too. Stealing is stealing, the difference is a matter of degree only.
dessertrat
11-01-2007, 11:23
Well, a crime is something that is against the law, by definition. I get the point being made, but I wouldn't say "some things are illegal but not a crime." Some things simply should not be crimes, but are.
minnesotasmith
11-01-2007, 11:37
The more i thought about it though, the more I realized that I really didn't want to enter a 'normal' life just yet. The idea of settling down and having a job didn't interest me at all, and i actually oppose it. I don't want my adventures to be limited to 2 weeks of vacation a year. I do know that there are careers out there where you have a much more flexible schedule, but I haven't found that position that fits me yet.
Try getting a job in the oil drilling industry. Roughnecks can make over 5 grand net for two weeks' work, and these are commonly people with a high school diploma or less.
There are many places on the Gulf Coast (specifically, Texas and Louisiana) where you can get a job in that area now. Personally, though, I'd suggest heading to Casper, WY, Rifle, CO, Grand Junction, CO, Cheyenne, WY, or Craig, CO. There are billboards in several of these towns begging for oilfield workers. Better pay, better class of people to work with, better scenery, better climate, and better HIKING out here IMO. (I've worked the Gulf, too, so know something of what I'm talking about.)
There are people (directional drillers, for example) making $800/day out here on the rigs; wouldn't take long working like that to have money saved up for a LONG time hiking, now would it?
:D
vaporjourney
11-01-2007, 13:06
Try getting a job in the oil drilling industry. Roughnecks can make over 5 grand net for two weeks' work, and these are commonly people with a high school diploma or less.
There are many places on the Gulf Coast (specifically, Texas and Louisiana) where you can get a job in that area now. Personally, though, I'd suggest heading to Casper, WY, Rifle, CO, Grand Junction, CO, Cheyenne, WY, or Craig, CO. There are billboards in several of these towns begging for oilfield workers. Better pay, better class of people to work with, better scenery, better climate, and better HIKING out here IMO. (I've worked the Gulf, too, so know something of what I'm talking about.)
There are people (directional drillers, for example) making $800/day out here on the rigs; wouldn't take long working like that to have money saved up for a LONG time hiking, now would it?
:D
I've thought a bit about doing that. BUT...I don't think my conscience would allow me to sleep at night if i got into that line of work. It would be hard to justify my involvement with the oil industry, which I disagree strongly with. When I was up in Canada, I met lots of people trying to get me to work in the tar sands of Alberta. I know that the money is there, but like I said...my conscience would most likely eat me alive.
minnesotasmith
11-01-2007, 13:24
I've thought a bit about doing that. BUT...I don't think my conscience would allow me to sleep at night if i got into that line of work. It would be hard to justify my involvement with the oil industry, which I disagree strongly with. When I was up in Canada, I met lots of people trying to get me to work in the tar sands of Alberta. I know that the money is there, but like I said...my conscience would most likely eat me alive.
You don't ride in petroleum-powered vehicles, eat petroleum-fertilized/pesticide-used-on food, sleep or conduct business (work/shop/get medical care) under roofs of buildings containing petroleum-origin insulation, use goods transported by petroleum-powered vehicles, or live in a country defended by a military dependent upon petroleum-powered vehicles/petroleum-based explosives? How do you manage that? ;)
If any of those apply to you, you ARE in the petroleum economy, just as much as I am (I'm a geologist subcontracting to oil cos.). The question is just whether you work directly for oil cos, or indirectly, supporting the infrastructure that makes oil cos. functional, as they in turn make possible the oil-based modern society that anyone not a hunter-gather exclusively using wild animal/plant/rock materials is part of also.
Say, oil's original term is "mineral oil". Picking up flint chunks to make weapons and tools (as pre-smelting humans did) is arguably no more and no less gathering and using a "mineral" resource than is drilling 10,000' deep into the Williams Fork Formation in NW Colorado is. ;)
Blissful
11-01-2007, 14:24
What does any of the last few pages have to do with 2007 hikers coping with civilization after their thru hike?
C'mon.
Can we take this to the political or sensitive thread? (because I am just a little sensitive)
What does any of the last few pages have to do with 2007 hikers coping with civilization after their thru hike?
C'mon.
Can we take this to the political or sensitive thread? (because I am just a little sensitive)
Maybe some hikers cope with the return to civilization by hanging out on hiking sites, arguing with other hikers.;)
taildragger
11-01-2007, 14:41
"Whiteblaze"
Sometimes its like a shelter, but the odor is slightly less offensive and the only mice are dancing with mice.
Blissful
11-01-2007, 14:41
Maybe some hikers cope with the return to civilization by hanging out on hiking sites, arguing with other hikers.;)
Not sure about 2007ers engaging in this (we are still reminiscing and getting our names in the papers :) ), but I do agree with others. It's been quite argumentative these past weeks. That should be the prime excuse to go hiking (a thread in the General forum).
Hey - and in our paper today, there was a front page sidebar for readers to look for this Sunday's paper. There will be an article about a hiker's 30 yr dream to complete the Appalachian Trail and how it came true. (guess who?) That was neat to see.
My best friend since childhood has worked at a regal cinemas for years, i havent paid for a movie since i was about 15 (now 25) i dont think i ever will again, when it comes down to it $8 plus is not worth watching a movie on a screen thats too big, with no picture definition, in a room that's dirtier than most privy floors, and filled with lound obnoxious idiots who chew thier popcorn way too loudly. furthermore when you sneek into a movie your screwing hollywood over not the theatre. the theatre makes there money off consesion sales. that is why a bottle of water is 4 to 6 bucks. if anyone is stealing its the buisness not the consumer who skips paying once or twice in his life
minnesotasmith
11-01-2007, 15:23
What does any of the last few pages have to do with 2007 hikers coping with civilization after their thru hike?
My post had to do with helping a young hiker get past a false premise that was interfering with his ability (by obtaining sufficient free time and saved money) to go on extending hiking trips. The question wasn't hypothetical, as he said he had turned down specific job opportunities that would have helped him greatly in this pursuit he shares with us here. After all, isn't the main point to this website to help other hikers when we can, as we're helped in turn?
Why not become a teacher. Join the union. Make 65K after a few years and not worry about getting fired. Cry poverty. Take summers off and travel cheap. Retire at 1/2 pay with insurance at a young age. Complain about how someone with your degrees in the private sector has it better off. Live well.
Blissful
11-01-2007, 19:28
After all, isn't the main point to this website to help other hikers when we can, as we're helped in turn?
Sure as long as the thread like this isn't hijacked into debates such as whether or not one should stealth a movie, drive an SUV, what the government did wrong this week, pot smoking, petroleum issues, whether committing an illegal act is a crime, and other things that seem to crop up and steer a topic away from its intended use. I thought we had a great forum for those sensitive topics we want to get off our chest, put there by sensitive minding moderators. Of course one can always steer all those topics into "civilization" after the trail (ugh). I just don't know how debates like that help a 2007 hiker cope with civilization. Right now I am trying to cope with White Blaze after the trail. :)
WalkinHome
11-01-2007, 20:05
A good friend of mine did the trail a few years after me and when he got back, he felt the same way so he gave me a call to say he needed a "trail fix" so we met someplace and talked "AT" over some supper. Find a local that has done the trail and kick it around. Also, if you are not close the the AT, find a Land Trust or trails group and do some trail work-it doesn't have to be the AT to feel good. Good luck. Am going up to Monson next weekend to do some corridor monitoring on my section. It's a blast!!!
Right now I am trying to cope with White Blaze after the trail. :)
"Cope" with Whitelaze? As far as I know, participation is purely discretionary. ;)
High Life
12-24-2007, 13:18
not coping at all , 4 weeks no job ... lots of drinking and drugs ..
Why not become a teacher. Join the union. Make 65K after a few years and not worry about getting fired. Cry poverty. Take summers off and travel cheap. Retire at 1/2 pay with insurance at a young age. Complain about how someone with your degrees in the private sector has it better off. Live well.
Uhhmm....??? Not realistic sorry to burst that bubble.
ight now I am trying to cope with White Blaze after the trail.
Don't be sad because it's over; smile because it happened. :)
Except for a few retired folks like me, most thru hikers face the dilemma of earning a living. Some, like Sly and Mags, judging by their posts, make that dilemma easier by choosing occupations that allow a great deal of hiking freedom. Others with families and kids need more money than that life provides.
I chose to live on Social Security and a small company pension to leave plenty of time for the outdoors. But trails intruded in other than hiking ways. Some 250 acres came on the market and I helped the land trust I had created 15 years earlier raise the money to buy it. One thing lead to another and now the trust has 800 acres. With some encouragment others created preserves. Now the town has 5,000 acres of protected land on which to build trails.
Some of my coworkers, who retired when I did, chose different paths. One switched from editing my stories to being the owner-chef of a restaurant. Others continued writing as free lancers.
To each his own. But I find it is a nice feeling to hike and build trails on land I've helped protect. None of us can know for sure about the possibility of life after death. But I find it comforting to think that a few things I have done will be enjoyed by people years, maybe centuries, after I'm gone.
If that possibility appeals to you, let me suggest the Maine Appalachian Trail Land TRust, which seeks to provide buffers for the narrow Maine AT trail corridor. You say I mentioned this before. Sorry.
But our web site can still be found at www.matlt.org
Weary
I slept in my backyard. Even started some fires for the hell of it. My neighbors didnt like either but its still my yard...
LOL
I fire up my Thermette every few weeks just to smell the smoke. I end up sitting there with a smile on my face. I make excuses and tell myself “I want some hot chocolate” But the truth is I just want to play with the camping gear.
I don’t think my neighbors even pay attention to the fire & smoke anymore.
I had the local police drive by one night a few weeks ago, the guy backed up his car, looked for a few seconds and then drove off.