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View Full Version : Equipment HELP NEEDED before we head NOBO



Dakota Dan
10-23-2007, 21:20
Been working hard on our trip since first appearing here on WB bout a week ago. I asked a few questions in some other threads but would like to re-ask those as well as ask a few new ones.

1. Boots. Would like to get recommendations on leather waterproofing and stitch sealer. Also, glue used to make temp. repairs such as to Boot Rands etc.

2. I've got an old down bag, is there anything that can be used, such as spray or wash-in stuff to help make the shell a little more moisture resistant?

3. Tent Footprint. Whats the lightest, toughest stuff available. Have gotten a few tips from other forums, just like to check out all possibilities.

4. Backpack liner/cover. Whats the latest? Right now I'm thinking of using a trash compactor bag for inside and maybe using the tent footprint as some sort of cover.


These are a few loose ends we're working on. We appreciate any help from the WB masses. Trying to keep packs light will be a challenge. Also, JR and I went on a day-hike this past weekend up at Brasstown Bald, Ga. He had gotten him some new Scarpa M3 boots and I would say he was able to walk about 300feet before switching into his old boots. I told him to duck-tape those feet before walking in them. Anyway thanks in advance for any help.

Appalachian Tater
10-23-2007, 21:23
for #2 if your bag is old make sure it is warm enough as it may have lost loft.
for #3 consider tyvek, you can get a scrap from a construction site or buy it online.
for #4 go witht he trash compactor bag or a heavy duty garbage bag as a liner. The idea about the footprint as a cover may work or use a garbage bag.

If you use trail runners, duct-taping your feet would likely not be necessary. If shoes injure your feet then there is a problem with them.

Phreak
10-23-2007, 21:25
1. Dunno. I don't wear boots but I know there is waterproofing treatment available at REI.

2. There are several wash-in waterproofing products at REI for your sleeping bag. I'm sure other places carry it but I do most of my shopping at REI. http://www.rei.com/Search.do?x=0&y=0&vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=water+proofing&cat=4500001&hist=x%2C0%5Ey%2C0%5Equery%2Cwater+proofing%5Ecat% 2C4500001%3ACamping+%26+Hiking

3. I'd recommend a piece of Tyvek for a foot print / ground cloth.

4. I have a few friends who use a garbage bag for a pack cover and it's worked well for them.

RockStar
10-23-2007, 21:30
If I had the 150 bucks to spend over again, I would have gone with a Trail runner or a Wal Mart boot.

rafe
10-23-2007, 21:33
1. Sno-Seal or Nikwax. (But who wears leather boots???)
2. Dunno
3. Dunno. I never bothered with a "footprint."
4. REI sells (relatively) inexpensive silnylon pack covers. I had poor luck with the "trash bag liner" routine.

joeyyyy
10-23-2007, 22:02
sea 2 summit has ultalite water proof packliners and stuff sacks

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 22:11
Been working hard on our trip since first appearing here on WB bout a week ago. I asked a few questions in some other threads but would like to re-ask those as well as ask a few new ones.

1. Boots. Would like to get recommendations on leather waterproofing and stitch sealer. Also, glue used to make temp. repairs such as to Boot Rands etc.
Snow Seal. But be prepared to have sweaty feet.


2. I've got an old down bag, is there anything that can be used, such as spray or wash-in stuff to help make the shell a little more moisture resistant?
Not really. There are some sprays like camp dry, but they really don't help much in my experience.


3. Tent Footprint. Whats the lightest, toughest stuff available. Have gotten a few tips from other forums, just like to check out all possibilities.
None at all.


4. Backpack liner/cover. Whats the latest? Right now I'm thinking of using a trash compactor bag for inside and maybe using the tent footprint as some sort of cover.
That could work. I use a trash compactor bag for a liner and a sil-nylon packa as a rain jacket/pack cover



These are a few loose ends we're working on. We appreciate any help from the WB masses. Trying to keep packs light will be a challenge. Also, JR and I went on a day-hike this past weekend up at Brasstown Bald, Ga. He had gotten him some new Scarpa M3 boots and I would say he was able to walk about 300feet before switching into his old boots. I told him to duck-tape those feet before walking in them. Anyway thanks in advance for any help.
Duct tape, good socks, and switching to trail runners.

Lilred
10-23-2007, 22:23
sea 2 summit has ultalite water proof packliners and stuff sacks

They also make a really good pack cover. I use large turkey roasting bags to line my stuff sacks. Especially my bag and clothes. Food bag too. They're virtually bombproof.

Blissful
10-23-2007, 22:25
My suggestions -

1. Trail runners. (and it took me a LONG time to convert! But I was sold) :) Lightweight. Dry quicker. Less blister problems. May be yucky in snow though with wet feet but again they dry good (I had mine the 2nd half of the hike).

2. Get a new bag (if you have the $$). or maybe a newer one. The ratings can definitely change. I went synthetic and glad I did. AT is wet and cold when you start. Then damp /wet after that.

3. Agree on Tyvek. Works great.

4. Sil nylon pack cover. And I used Reynolds turkey bags for my clothes and sleeping bag as added protection. Ditched the trash liner, though some did use it. Nothing stays dry in relentless downpours, though.

Tinker
10-23-2007, 23:40
Hi, Dan.

My recommendations are along the same line as those above - try trail runners (or even sandals). They do dry much, much faster than leather boots (my Limmers are sitting in my closet collecting dust while my current short term hiking footwear is a pair of Keen watersport sandals with all man made materials paired with either Smartwool socks or neoprene socks (for mud). This is a very versatile system, but I've yet to try it on a long hike with a heavier load. Last spring ('06), I hiked the Georgia section with Gore-Tex lined nylon/leather boots - way too hot (but last March was on the warm side). I also had way too much food in my pack and had geared for winter weather (the coldest it got was a hair below freezing - go figure).

As for a down sleeping bag, you're better off buying an ultralight moisture resistant bivy with a waterproof bottom than spraying anything on the shell. Whatever you spray on it will get into the down an possibly cause the plumules to stick together, reducing loft slightly. Also, the time-to-dry of a down bag is pretty well tied to how permeable the fabric is (air flow, so to speak).

Groundsheet for a tent? Extra weight, imo.

Pack liner - trash compactor bags will work and be more waterproof than silnylon - until they puncture. Pack carefully. I currently use regular trash can liners and a silnylon pack cover, although a Packa or poncho will keep both you and your pack dry.

Happy hiking!

Doughnut
10-24-2007, 05:48
My 2 cents:
Trail runners and Walmart ponchos, the cheap ones in the camping supplies.

Columbia Trail Runners work very well for me, in fact I recently purchased a second pair in anticipation of my thru-hike, so I can have them sent if need be, and they already know my feet.

The ponchos (2) are my footprint, and pack cover (I hang my whole pack at night, not just food bag, and I hang a poncho over it)(Looks like a yellow ghost flying between trees)

I've had great luck with Camp Dry, used it on down bags and light jackets for years.

Dough Nut

sylvan
10-24-2007, 10:09
1. Boots. Would like to get recommendations on leather waterproofing and stitch sealer. Also, glue used to make temp. repairs such as to Boot Rands etc.

In my experience, waterproofing boots is futile. Even goretex boots have a life-expectancy of only 500,000 flexes (steps). That's only a few hundered miles before the goretex liner has served it's useful life. Seemingly contrary to common sense, the shoes that have been best at keeping my feet dry are the ones that have the best ventilation. Why? Because once your feet get wet, those that ventilate well dry the quickest.


2. I've got an old down bag, is there anything that can be used, such as spray or wash-in stuff to help make the shell a little more moisture resistant?

You can apply a spray-on DWR (Durable Water Repelancy) like Repel-X. You can also use a down-proof washer that helps add water repelancy to the down fibers as well. Nikwax makes a reliable down proof.


3. Tent Footprint. Whats the lightest, toughest stuff available. Have gotten a few tips from other forums, just like to check out all possibilities.

Most modern tents are made with a 70-denier poly-coated nylon that is increddibly durable. A footprint isn't necessary under any circumstances that I can think of along the AT for durability. That said, if you want a footprint, 2-mil plastic (dropcloths at your local Home Improvement Store) will make for a light and cheap alternative. When cutting the plastic to size, be sure to make it about 3-4 inches smaller than the footprint of the tent so it doesn't collect water.


4. Backpack liner/cover. Whats the latest? Right now I'm thinking of using a trash compactor bag for inside and maybe using the tent footprint as some sort of cover.

Liner? Trash compactor bags are light and cheap. Cover? I'd try to find a silnylon cover at an outfitter.

Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 10:31
Columbia Trail Runners work very well for me, in fact I recently purchased a second pair in anticipation of my thru-hike, so I can have them sent if need be, and they already know my feet.

They know your feet now. Some people's feet change significantly during a thru-hike, for instance, increase a size.

Dakota Dan
10-26-2007, 13:38
Thanks guys. This kinda feedback really helps.

Boots: I appreciate the trail runner ideas. I have flat feet and weak ankles. Heavy boots seem to insulate from the rocks and roots and ankle twists. Wish I could use the lighter stuff. As far as water proofing I guess I'll stick to what I have always done and use spar varnish as stitch sealer and a combo of aqua-seal and sno-seal on the leather.

Sleeping Bag: I think I'll do nothing to my old bag and take Sgt Rocks suggestion that nothing really works. If anything, I'll spring for a WM bag from EBay or just get a new one.

Tent Footprint: I'm going to get a piece of Tyvek and try it. Maybe the best plan is to not have a plan. I have even thought about trying to use a poncho. We'll each be carrying a 1 man tent and it could work. BTW, my idea of each carrying a tent in case one of us has to go home.

Dry-bag/Pack cover: I really like the one suggestion from JOEYYY about the dry-sack "sea to summit". I'm now looking at the Campmor dry-sacks to try and figure out what size or sizes I should get. Again, thinking about using the poncho as a footprint and a pack cover.

Thanks again for the help.

hopefulhiker
10-26-2007, 13:52
I waterproofed my boots several times with a mixture of silcone and paint thinner. it is cheap and you get a tube at Lowes or somewhere.. mix it with a little paint thinner and paint it on.. It wears off so you have to do it again after ten days of hiking.. I switched to trail runners though..

Also i did not use a groundcloth with the tarptent i had

Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-26-2007, 14:06
Dakota Dan, I have foot problems that make hiking in a trailrunner on rougher terrain a bad idea for me as well. I found that Hi-Tec V-Lite mid-rise boots (http://www.hi-tec.com/us/category.php?styleId=6713) (women's model (http://www.hi-tec.com/us/category.php?styleId=8301)) offered me a lightweight alternative to tradition heavier boots that gave me the ankle support, ability to use the laces to lock my heel in the proper place (something that helps avoid ankle injuries IME) and stiffer sole needed for rough terrain. These boots are not as costly as some and are not as durable as some. However, I feel they are great alternative for those who are willing to replace them during the hike. They did not require breaking in for me.

Don H
10-26-2007, 15:26
Dakota Dan
I have flat feet too and had lots of blisters and foot problems until I changed from boots to trail runners. I tried several brands, testing each pair on the treadmill. REI took back the ones I didn't like with no questions asked. I settled on Montrail Contenential Divides but the soles were so stiff they felt like they bruised my feet. I added a pair of Black Superfeet which are made for flat feet. To say I'm happy with this setup is an understatement! The test for me was the northern 80 miles of AT in PA which had some of the roughest trail I have ever hiked. After 6 days I had no blisters and my feet felt great. The most important thing you can do in preperation for a long hike is to make sure your footwear works well. Trial and error, lots of day hikes and treadmill miles finally resulted in a system that works for me. Good luck!

restless
10-26-2007, 15:37
The only change I would make compared to others input is on the footprint. I like to carry a piece of 1 or 2 mil painters plastic. It's cheap and lightweight. Another thing to consider is putting the footprint inside of the tent as opposed to underneath it. Having worked trail crews for several years and spending many a rainy night in a tent, by placing the footprint inside the tent, you create a much more water resistant barrier between the tent and you. If it is placed on the outside, water still has the tendancy to puddle between the footprint and the tent, thus negating its purpose. If you choose to go with Tyvek, I would reccomend washin it first as this will take out some of it's slickness and reducing the niose it makes as well.
As for your down bag, wash it first with a good wash in waterproofing-brands slip my mind. Down tends to remain its loft even after years of use (or non-use). Try it out in weather you expect to be in before you replace it.

DawgU
10-26-2007, 18:12
I too have flat feet and weak ankles. Significantly reducing my pack weight and always using trekking poles allowed me to make the move to trail runners (Inov8 Roclites). I always heard the saying a pound off of your feet is like five pounds off of your back. I love mine, and now my boots feel like anchors. You might look into the new Inov8 trail runner "boots". They apprear to be getting great reviews a BPL.

Dakota Dan
10-28-2007, 12:35
Again, thanks for all the tips. I've got some dry-bags coming from Campmor and I've got a couple pieces of Tyvek being rounded up for me to try. We are shooting to try and leave ASP sometimes in late Feb, 08. It's going to take every bit of the time to get boots broken in and gear situated. I really like the trail running shoes and will probably try some later, but not on this trip. Got to stick with what I know will work with my feet and ankles. For the past few days we've been experimenting with packing and weight of said pack(s) with gear. As of now I've got mine at a range of 28-32 lbs including 3 liters of water, but no food which can vary wildly, I'll say 6lbs for 5 days. This weight can be trimmed a little when moving into the warmer months of the hike. I'm looking at 34-38 lbs maximum on my back, I'd sure like to get this around 28 lbs total without breaking the bank. I could purchase a lighter pack and bag that would shave maybe at the most 2lbs. I could dump the water filter and trim here and there but its tough to decide. I've got to do more research and see what everybody else is carrying. I just feel the weight is too much, considering all the light weight stuff out there. I'd appreciate any feedback on the matter.

Lyle
10-28-2007, 13:31
Keep in mind, part of the benefit of using Snow Seal or Nikwax is that these products moisturize the leather, acting as a conditioner, keeping it supple and prolonging it's life by helping to prevent cracking. I no longer use leather boots except in winter, but have had many pair in the past. Repeated wetting and drying of leather is damaging. I'm not sure how well the other methods mentioned above will work as a leather moisturizer, I believe it is the wax in the first two procucts that accomplishes this.

dessertrat
10-28-2007, 13:50
3. Tent Footprint. Whats the lightest, toughest stuff available. Have gotten a few tips from other forums, just like to check out all possibilities.



I second not using a footprint, if your tent has a fairly tough bottom. I just risk it, and if I ever get a punture, I will just patch it with duct tape until a more permanent repair is available.

Appalachian Tater
10-28-2007, 13:54
I really like the trail running shoes and will probably try some later, but not on this trip. Got to stick with what I know will work with my feet and ankles.

You've got three months. You could wear out a pair before you leave if you tried!

40 pounds with food and water is NOT crazy or anything to be ashamed about. Post your list and ask for suggestions on the best ways to get your weight down. You always have to balance weight, cost, and durability. You could spend $100 to save a pound or $50 to save 1.5 ounces, so it helps to think about all your gear at once.

Appalachian Tater
10-28-2007, 13:56
I second not using a footprint, if your tent has a fairly tough bottom. I just risk it, and if I ever get a punture, I will just patch it with duct tape until a more permanent repair is available.

I third it. Don't think of your tent as something permanent like a titanium pot. It's more like shoes that will eventually wear out and need replacing. A few holes isn't that big of a problem, anyway.

mountain squid
10-28-2007, 15:06
Dakota Dan - I see you live in Atlanta. Next weekend (or whenever) take a trip out to Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap (http://www.mountaincrossings.com/). Take your gear with you (load you backpack as if you were beginning your hike - take everything) and let them do a pre-hike pack shakedown with you. I'm sure the knowledgeable staff will give you great advice, and you will be able to 'get your hands' on specific items of gear. Much of their inventory is popular (and lightweight) on the trail.

See you on the trail,
mt squid