PDA

View Full Version : Alcohol



earthbound
10-23-2007, 23:43
How much alcohol do you carry for your popcan alcohol stoves? I tried out the stove on my recent hiking trip, but made the mistake of not carrying enough alcohol. :-?

SGT Rock
10-23-2007, 23:55
Well how much were you carrying?

I carry about 1.5 ounces per hiking day.

earthbound
10-23-2007, 23:58
I had between 1/4 to 1/3 of a dasani water bottle, but it was for two people intended for 4 days... i think i used half for the first dinner! :eek:

SGT Rock
10-24-2007, 00:01
What size Desani? 20 ounce bottle would mean you had about 6 ounces fuel. For one person that was probably enough for that hike.

rafe
10-24-2007, 00:12
How much alcohol do you carry for your popcan alcohol stoves? I tried out the stove on my recent hiking trip, but made the mistake of not carrying enough alcohol. :-?

My experience is that it takes anywhere from 0.75 oz to 1.25 oz to boil two cups of water. (talking fluid ounces here.)

Footslogger
10-24-2007, 09:17
How much alcohol do you carry for your popcan alcohol stoves? I tried out the stove on my recent hiking trip, but made the mistake of not carrying enough alcohol. :-?

==========================================

Depends on the hike. I have several "oval" booze flask type containers ranging in size from 4 to 10 to 16 ounces. For weekend trips I pack the 4. On long distance hikes I generally carry the 10 ouncer, since I know I can purchase more alcohol along the way. For 1 - 2 week hikes, when I typically do not re-supply, I carry the 16 ouncer.

'Slogger

Marta
10-24-2007, 10:02
Did you measure the alcohol into the stove? I use a little medicine measuring cup. My current stove setup takes about half an ounce to boil 2 cups of water. If I need to boil four cups, it's often better to boil two cups twice than try to boil a lot at once.

warraghiyagey
10-24-2007, 10:15
I've always just carried one twist top bottle of HEET. It has never run out before the next re-supply and usually I just split a new one with someone to top off our supply. Very convenient.

SGT Rock
10-24-2007, 10:57
What I recommend you do is play with your stove and see how it normally works for you. A cap from a soda bottle holds about 5ml-6ml of alcohol, so you need about 3 of them for a half ounce of fuel. Most stoves can boil a pint of water with this much fuel.

That said, playing with temperature, water amount, and style of cooking can yield varried results. In normal weather I boil a pint of water with 2 caps of fuel. In cold weather it takes about 3 caps - but I "spill" a little of that third cap around the stove for priming heat. If I do more than a pint of water (say 3 cups) then I normally use 3 caps in the stove. If I plan to do a full liter - I normally do it one pint at a time and the second burn usually uses less fuel because the stove parts are warm.

Have fun with it.

Uncle Silly
10-24-2007, 15:11
Good tip, Rock. I agree -- you've got to experiment to find out how much fuel you'll need.

If you made your own stove and it's your first, odds are that it's not as efficient as it could be, so you'll need more fuel than you would with your 20th or 30th stove. If it's your first alcohol stove and you've never used it before, you'll need more alcohol than after you will 4 months into your thru-hike. You'll figure out the best practices (like getting the windscreen set up right; figuring out a handy measuring cup; learning to eyeball how much fuel you're adding to the stove).

In the meantime, carry extra fuel, so you're not stuck if you end up using lots more fuel than you expect.

Appalachian Tater
10-24-2007, 15:15
It also depends on what and how you're cooking. You don't always need to actually boil water--for stuffing or ramen, very hot water works fine. Also, you can let something sit and continue to cook as it cools rather than boiling, say, a pot of rice until it is done and waiting for it to cool off enough to eat. A windscreen and a lid help conserve fuel, too. And if you were using a giant pot to cook for four people, that would certainly play a role.

atraildreamer
10-24-2007, 15:26
[quote=SGT Rock;432953]That said, playing with temperature, water amount, and style of cooking can yield varried results. In normal weather I boil a pint of water with 2 caps of fuel. In cold weather it takes about 3 caps - but I "spill" a little of that third cap around the stove for priming heat. If I do more than a pint of water (say 3 cups) then I normally use 3 caps in the stove. /quote]

The "Stove Efficiency" article that I posted here at Whiteblaze, and at Rock's Hikinghq.net site, may be of use in estimating fuel usage. :confused:

The spreadsheet calculates fuel needed based on the initial starting temperature of the water, and on the final expected water temperature.

As Rock states, the colder the weather, the more fuel needed to heat the water to a boil.

Try a few test burns of your stove system to get a general idea of how much fuel to take on the hike. :-?

SGT Rock
10-24-2007, 15:33
And that colder weather extra is simply a function of colder water and colder alcohol when you start. If your system is good, then it creates a small micro climate inside the windscreen and the outside air sort of makes less of a difference unless you leave the pot lid off - then you get evaporative cooling.

Jim Adams
10-24-2007, 20:31
I usually carry around 10 oz. of alcohol per day and it seems to last perfectly for my trips. If the ambient temperature is cold however, I may use slightly more.

I can't imagine how much I'd have to carry if my stove used it also!

geek

Two Speed
10-24-2007, 20:39
We saw that one coming, didn't we, boys and girls?

For me going solo hiking using a Trangia Westwind and an Evernew 1.3 L pot 2 oz/day is plenty.

Footslogger
10-24-2007, 20:48
For me going solo hiking using a Trangia Westwind and an Evernew 1.3 L pot 2 oz/day is plenty.

====================================

You REALLY need to cut back man. All you need is the 0.9 Liter Evernew and then your fuel consumption will drop. Think GREEN !!

'Slogger

earthbound
10-24-2007, 21:24
Thanks for the help everyone! I had to buy a rather large amount of alcohol in order to fill my little bottle, so I have plenty to experiment with!

Footslogger
10-24-2007, 21:27
Thanks for the help everyone! I had to buy a rather large amount of alcohol in order to fill my little bottle, so I have plenty to experiment with!
============================

...and that's the best advice you could have gotten. EXPERIMENT, before you actually hit the trail and then add in a little "contingency" factor.

'Slogger

shelterbuilder
10-24-2007, 21:53
...and here's another dumb question from a soon-to-be alcohol stove owner: what is the maximum safe amount of fuel that a pepsi-can stove can hold, and how long will that amount burn? I realize that the whole idea is to match fuel input with necessary burn time, but I'm curious.

hopefulhiker
10-24-2007, 21:58
I carried about two oz per day with Sgt Rocks ion stove, prototype, plus an extra oz or two for emergency delays.. I cooked breakfast and dinner...

Skidsteer
10-24-2007, 21:58
...and here's another dumb question from a soon-to-be alcohol stove owner: what is the maximum safe amount of fuel that a pepsi-can stove can hold, and how long will that amount burn? I realize that the whole idea is to match fuel input with necessary burn time, but I'm curious.

Depends on the particular Pepsi-can stove.

I figure I could, if I wanted to , make a Pepsi-can stove that would hold 22 ounces. It'd be kinda easy to tip over though. ;)

Most hold 1-3 ounces.

rafe
10-24-2007, 21:59
...and here's another dumb question from a soon-to-be alcohol stove owner: what is the maximum safe amount of fuel that a pepsi-can stove can hold, and how long will that amount burn? I realize that the whole idea is to match fuel input with necessary burn time, but I'm curious.

Your basic pepsi-can stove will hold about 2 oz. That's prolly good for about 10-12 minutes of burn.

With 1 oz, a pint of water will begin to boil after about 5 minutes and the flames will die at around 6-7 minutes.

You really want a pot cozy when cooking with alcohol. The bulk of the cooking happens in the absence of flame.

shelterbuilder
10-24-2007, 22:13
Thank you, gentlemen.

earthbound
10-24-2007, 22:54
off topic, but whatever, I started the thread! :p Pot cozys- what do you use for this? I keep imagining a fleece "sleeping bag" for my pot, but wouldn't that melt?

rafe
10-24-2007, 23:01
off topic, but whatever, I started the thread! :p Pot cozys- what do you use for this? I keep imagining a fleece "sleeping bag" for my pot, but wouldn't that melt?

You can make your own from various materials, or purchase them (eg., from AntiGravityGear.com). In any case, see the AGG website for examples. You can use fleece or wool, probably, though in time these will acquire food smells and therefore attract animals.

take-a-knee
10-24-2007, 23:23
I used foil bubble wrap and tyvek tape for a cozy. A cut off piece on ensolite works well.

Footslogger
10-25-2007, 10:27
off topic, but whatever, I started the thread! :p Pot cozys- what do you use for this? I keep imagining a fleece "sleeping bag" for my pot, but wouldn't that melt?
=================================

I've got one that is made out of Reflectix insulation. Fits my Evernew Ti 0.9L pot perfectly. It doesn't add much dimension to the cookpot and in fact the entire thing still fits into the nylon sack that came with the pot. When my meal is done I slip the cookpot into the cozy sleeve and let it sit for a few minutes. Nice thing about the cozy (in addition to keeping the meal warm) is that I can sit the cookpot on my lap while eating.

'Slogger

Two Speed
10-25-2007, 18:45
. . . Pot cozys- what do you use for this? . . . Generally use an old knit arcrylic watch cap. Basically anything that will provide good insulation qualifies as a "cozy" on Planet Two Speed.

Soooo 'Slogs, is recycling an old crapped out watch cap good for some "greenie points?"

Footslogger
10-25-2007, 18:46
Soooo 'Slogs, is recycling an old crapped out watch cap good for some "greenie points?"

==============================

Absolutely ...you be WAY green man !!

'Slogger

SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 18:49
Generally use an old knit arcrylic watch cap. Basically anything that will provide good insulation qualifies as a "cozy" on Planet Two Speed.

Soooo 'Slogs, is recycling an old crapped out watch cap good for some "greenie points?"
My recent toy is a pot cozy made from carbon fiber plummers cloth. It is my pot cozy and winscreen. You can barely feel any heat outside the thing - it seems like most of the heat is staying inside the stove system - I often have to check the stove to see if it is going.

It does have it's down sides too. Expensive, sort of hard to put together, and it isn't as tight a cozy as other options.

Two Speed
10-25-2007, 18:51
==============================

Absolutely ...you be WAY green man !!

'SloggerCool, cuz I'm considering converting to the same brand of "fuel" Skids uses and my "fuel" consumption looks like going up, not down. :sun

My recent toy is a pot cozy made from carbon fiber plummers cloth. It is my pot cozy and winscreen. You can barely feel any heat outside the thing - it seems like most of the heat is staying inside the stove system - I often have to check the stove to see if it is going.

It does have it's down sides too. Expensive, sort of hard to put together, and it isn't as tight a cozy as other options.Yeah, saw you were using that. How's that working out, efficiency wise?

SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 18:53
I am regularly getting a boil from 10-12 ml of fuel in most weather. It works, but I'm not about to go raving about them to everyone. For one thing it is really, really easy to accidently choke off the stove and cause more harm than good.

Skidsteer
10-25-2007, 19:07
I am regularly getting a boil from 10-12 ml of fuel in most weather. It works, but I'm not about to go raving about them to everyone. For one thing it is really, really easy to accidently choke off the stove and cause more harm than good.

I would be very interested in your designs, ideas, impressions, conclusions, etc. regarding plumber's cloth.

I use it quite a bit but no one else seems to mess with it much. Maybe we could talk at Soruck?

SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 19:09
I would be very interested in your designs, ideas, impressions, conclusions, etc. regarding plumber's cloth.

I use it quite a bit but no one else seems to mess with it much. Maybe we could talk at Soruck?
Only if you make the coffee.

Skidsteer
10-25-2007, 19:11
Only if you make the coffee.

Deal.

It'll take 10 -12 minutes, though. ;)

SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 19:13
Deal.

It'll take 10 -12 minutes, though. ;)
Like I would complain. If I were in a hurry I wouldn't be walking.

Pirate
10-25-2007, 20:22
Carry 16 Oz for cooking and 1/2 gallon for drinking.

pure_mahem
10-25-2007, 20:33
.....Cadela Cone out of plumbers cloth..........would it work.......?????

SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 20:39
Sort of. You would need a stand since the plumbers cloth wouldn't support the pot. ALSO I have been told that the plumers cloth will deteriorate over time as some of it burns off a little, but I don't know how true this is since by weight, it hasn't changed.

CoyoteWhips
10-26-2007, 07:57
My supercat brings two cups of water to a rolling boil in about six minutes using two and a half tablespoons of denatured alcohol.

I can boil two cups in about 45 minutes with three tea candles (http://www.coyotewhips.com/photos/imusa.jpg), if I insulate the outside of the cup with a bandanna. Couldn't do that with an alcohol stove, because the wider flame would light the hanky up. If I had a less flammable way of insulating the cup, I'll bet it would boil with less fuel.

Johnny Swank
10-26-2007, 08:30
I do some simmering with tea candles for real rice and such. Works great as long as you insulate the outside some. I usually put my blue foam cozy over the put when doing this and it's worked fine so far.

SGT Rock
10-26-2007, 08:30
Try some carbon fiber plumbers cloth. It costs about $20 - $25 at a hardware store, but you really have to work to get a windscreen from one sheet as the sheets are not very big. To "sew" it together I used trip wire from a magnisium trip flare kit. I know people can't go out and buy this stuff - but I think it can be done with lacing wire.

I've seen your pot on your video Skidster. What I would do with your system (probably) is make a stove that gets more flame insde that little depression on the bottom of the can so it helps serve as a heat sink more than just a recess to fit the stove stand in. Then I would probably go with a very simple screen top burner that could hold up to one ounce of fuel, most liley one of those large Tea light containers. I'm not sure what I would make the stand from (I like playing with Ti, here is a pic: http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0366.JPG - ignore the burner in that pic http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0368.JPG) but I think a carbon fiber cozy for the Heineken can could be made that works as a windscreen for that system. Something that looks like this foam cozy: http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0365.JPG but can be the windscreen as well as the cozy.

SGT Rock
10-26-2007, 08:32
Here is an early post and some shots about how I did the windscreen / pot cozy: http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0365.JPG

I made coffee water yesterday using this system with 10ml of fuel from 69F water in an abient air temperature of 74F. I didn't time it - but it got to a boil and then maintained a roilling boil for about 3 minutes on that fuel. Of course that ain't a very taxing set of conditions and there was no wind.