How to pitch a tarp (for those who know) [Archive]

Bootstrap

10-25-2007, 00:03

SweetAss03

10-25-2007, 00:39

Hey good question...no one "great answer".

A lot is going to depend on your site, how much time you have to set it up, and the terrain.

Those of us from the millitary would refer to it as METT-T.

Grommets and/or taps will be important. Sometimes they will be more important then others.

Remember that the pictures from the companies have the "Best conditions" in which to set up a tarp as does the guy in the backyard. There will be times that you will have to make it up as you go. BUT you have a genneral idea of what will keep you dry.

If the wind is blowing hard, you will want to set up your tarp lower to the ground at least on the wind slide, if it is going to rain you need to watch your drain field and figure out the best place to set up....really not much different then setting up a tent well.

Good luck, happy trails
Sweetass

Doughnut

10-25-2007, 05:52

What Sweet Ass said,
Are you picthing between 2 trees? One Tree? Or using your trekking poles as tent poles? Which Way is the wind? How level (truly) is your site? Bugs? Breeze? View?
Basically, everything from a "dining Canopy" to a ground cloth, tipi, lean to, A-Frame, whatever you'd like, let your imagination ride!!

Go to a patch of woods and try different settings, Good Luck, and have a great time.

BTW< I used a tarp exclusively last summer on section hikes, one night I made a tube on the porch of a shelter to get off the ground (rain) and didn't want to sleep in the shelter (heat and mice)!

Hope this helps.

DoughNut

shelterbuilder

10-25-2007, 06:45

I carry 8 aluminum stakes, and a small zip-loc bag full of different lengths of cord. One cord is long enough to be used as a ridgeline between two trees; the rest of the cord is cut into various lengths from 4 feet to 8 feet. Most of my cords have a bowline tied in at least one end (two bowlines can be slipped together to join two lines easily).

I'm far from a "tarping expert", but, in general, the way that you will pitch your tarp depends upon your site (level ground, drainage, trees, rocks, etc.), weather, and your tarp itself. Each tarp has grommets and/or tie-outs (some have both). The simplest pitch is to rig a ridgeline between two trees and lay the tarp over the ridgeline so that the ridgeline divides the tarp in half. Stake down the corners and you're done. A more airy approach would be to stake down the left side to the ground, but guy off the right side to some trees (to raise one side of the tarp for air and view). Only have one tree? Stake the other end of the ridgeline to the ground, and have the ridgeline run across opposite diagonal corners of the tarp and stake out the sides as needed. Stormy weather? Pitch tight to the ground. Hot weather? Raise the sides for a cooling breeze. The possibilities are endless - limited only by the grommet locations and your own imagination.:sun

nitewalker

10-25-2007, 06:54

go out in your back yard with any type of tarp, cloth, cover etc and start setting it up. like sweetass , dough and shelter builder said the possibilities are endless.. you dont want to be in the field with a looming rain storm setting up your tarp for the 1st time. make sure you do some prefab work at home .if your really worriwed about geting wet under the tarp you could always get a bivy sac to cover up with..im sure the tarp and bivy combined will only weigh about 2.5 to 3.0lbs......good luck............peace out, nitewalker

shelterbuilder

10-25-2007, 07:05

I haven't used one in years, but lots of folks use a ground sheet under the tarp. If you decide to use one, pull it back from the edge of the tarp a few inches all around - that way, if it does rain hard, the chances of the water running in ON TOP of the groundsheet will be less. Use something puncture-resistant like Tyvek.

HIPOCKETS

10-25-2007, 07:14

shelterbuilder

10-25-2007, 07:36

Site selection is as important as how to pitch a tarp. Flat ground is great if heavy rain is unlikely (always avoid dish shaped depressions). If rain is likely then drainage is very important. Slight slopes will prevent water from ponding under you. However, most ground cloths and sleeping bags are very slippery so staying in place all night may be a challenge if the slope is very noticeable.

the link http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/st...0226&langId=-1 (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=12156&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1) show 5 people under a 12 ft tarp. then it rains 5 people will be wet. You need to have some over hang!

A hammock/tarp combination is very useful when it rains, especially if the tarp is a bit larger than you really need. The tarp can be pitched a little low, but the hammock can get you off of the ground, so that even if the drainage is less than perfect, you will still stay dry. Again, if you go this way, play with the set-ups in your back yard before you use it on the trail, so that you can almost do it blindfolded.

While I think of it, tie a single knot in your ridgeline outside (above) the tarp edge to make any rainwater drip off of the line before it can run under the tarp and drip onto YOU!:D

Cannibal

10-25-2007, 08:37

A hammock/tarp combination is very useful when it rains, especially if the tarp is a bit larger than you really need. The tarp can be pitched a little low, but the hammock can get you off of the ground, so that even if the drainage is less than perfect, you will still stay dry. Again, if you go this way, play with the set-ups in your back yard before you use it on the trail, so that you can almost do it blindfolded.

Yes, come over to the dark side and you'll never have to sleep on the ground again. :D

Mags

10-25-2007, 10:35

O
That seems reasonable. But people also suggest that I might want to learn multiple ways to pitch a tarp. Are there other ways that are particularly useful? For what conditions? If there are N ways I should know how to pitch a tarp, I'd like to learn them, how do I do that?

Jonathan

I am sounding like a broken record concerning this link and tarps..but hey, it's an excellent link by one of our own. :D
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html

For a great tarp that is not expensive, I find the Campmor one to be a great "bread and butter" tarp. I used one for quite while (including the PCT in 2002).

Uncle Silly

10-25-2007, 11:47

On several threads, people have suggested that if you "really know" how to pitch a tarp, it's great for many conditions, but otherwise, a tent's a safer bet.

I don't know how to pitch a tarp, much less really know. I did find this on the Internet:

http://www.cloudwalkersbasecamp.com/tarp_camping.html

That seems reasonable. But people also suggest that I might want to learn multiple ways to pitch a tarp. Are there other ways that are particularly useful? For what conditions? If there are N ways I should know how to pitch a tarp, I'd like to learn them, how do I do that?

Like many things, the only real way to learn is to practice. Pitching a tarp is practically an artform. Given a set of equipment (tarp, tie-outs/guy lines, & stakes), your pitch will be different depending on terrain, weather, and your imagination. Tarps are very flexible, but you have to be willing to experiment and confident in your ability to Figure It Out.

That link above gives you a good idea of some of your options when pitching a basic rectangular tarp. There are three basic pitches shown (and a variation, the A-frame with the sides guyed out for wind stability). Each of these might be preferable to the others depending on your weather or terrain -- the only way to learn when to use them is to try them out.

The flexibility in a tarp system is one of the main reasons I love my tarp. Every campsite becomes a little challenge where I have to think a little to find the best pitch. I love problem-solving so this suits me. If you don't enjoy the challenge of adapting your tarp to the site, maybe a tarp isn't for you.

Bootstrap

10-25-2007, 13:58

A hammock/tarp combination is very useful when it rains, especially if the tarp is a bit larger than you really need.

I always worry about being able to find two trees the right distance from each other where I want to camp. Is this generally difficult? What's the range of distances that can work for a hammock/tarp combo? I've never slept in a hammock, I'd want to try one before buying one .... which is a bootstrapping problem.

While I think of it, tie a single knot in your ridgeline outside (above) the tarp edge to make any rainwater drip off of the line before it can run under the tarp and drip onto YOU!:D

Great tip!

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-25-2007, 14:00

I am sounding like a broken record concerning this link and tarps..but hey, it's an excellent link by one of our own. :D
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html

Cool - I looked at that, then started browsing the rest of his site. Great info there!

Jonathan

shelterbuilder

10-25-2007, 14:26

I always worry about being able to find two trees the right distance from each other where I want to camp. Is this generally difficult? What's the range of distances that can work for a hammock/tarp combo? I've never slept in a hammock, I'd want to try one before buying one .... which is a bootstrapping problem.
Great tip!
Jonathan

Let me tell you a bit about my tarp set -up. My tarp is oversized (huge, by comparison to most of the tarps that many of the "hammock-hangers" use), but there's a reason for that. The tarp is 7 x 13 feet and has tie-outs at "odd" locations for special pitches. My ridgeline cord is about 25 feet long - and if I can't find two trees that are between 13 and 25 feet apart, then it's time to look for another site! If I'm using a hammock, I try to find two trees that are 15 - 18 feet apart to hang everything onto. If I'm on the ground, I don't even need a tree, because I can use my hiking staff to raise and anchor the front end, and the rear end of the tarp can slope to the ground. Pitched correctly, a tarp this size can shelter 2 adults comfortably, with sit-up room inside, even with a pitch that's "tight to the ground". It's all about being creative, and once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.:cool:

Frolicking Dinosaurs

10-25-2007, 15:28

This is a link to a 61 page PDF (http://www.equipped.com/tarp-shelters.pdf) document that tells you more about pitching tarps than you ever wanted to know. It has helped me decide what sort of tarp I need to take and helped me work out design issues for homemade tarps, tents and poncho / capes.

Cannibal

10-25-2007, 15:31

I always worry about being able to find two trees the right distance from each other where I want to camp. Is this generally difficult? What's the range of distances that can work for a hammock/tarp combo?

I've never had to spend more than 5 minutes looking for a site to hang from. Sometimes I spend more time if I want a 'unique' hang, like over a stream, but it's much easier to find a hanging site than a good ground site. The ridge on my tarp is just a hair under 11', so I look for a span somewhere between 12' and about 20' (depending on diameter of trees). I could go a little less or a little more, but 12-20 is my happy zone.

SGT Rock

10-25-2007, 15:36

RockyBob

10-25-2007, 15:50

I've never slept in a hammock, I'd want to try one before buying one .... which is a bootstrapping problem.

Once you use the hammock, you will be hooked.
You will be on your way to becoming a made man. :welcome to the hammock hanging mafia

Frolicking Dinosaurs

10-25-2007, 16:05

Come hiking around here sometime and I'll loan you a hammock. I've got enough of them.SgtRock's dream home
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/Rocksdreamhome.jpg)

Bootstrap

10-25-2007, 16:35

Come hiking around here sometime and I'll loan you a hammock. I've got enough of them.

Hey, nice offer - I just might take you up on it some time!

Jonathan

Jim Adams

10-25-2007, 18:45

While I think of it, tie a single knot in your ridgeline outside (above) the tarp edge to make any rainwater drip off of the line before it can run under the tarp and drip onto YOU!:D

Don't use a ridgeline! Run seperate ropes off of each side (grommet or loop) to trees, rocks, etc. and then you don't have to worry about water running on a ridge line.

Site selection is the most important aspect of tarping.

use the "flying diamond, "wedge", "trapazoid" or whatever you want to call it but if you set it up right, you will be able to stand in one end, cook just about anywhere underneath, heat it with a small fire and reflecting wall if need be and weather through a hurricane.

tie off EVERY grommet or loop if you want to survive ANY type of wind. it may not be windy at bed time but why get up in the middle of the night to fix it then?

why hangout in a tree when you can have a full size room?:D

SGT Rock

10-25-2007, 18:50

Don't use a ridgeline! Run seperate ropes off of each side (grommet or loop) to trees, rocks, etc. and then you don't have to worry about water running on a ridge line.

Site selection is the most important aspect of tarping.

use the "flying diamond, "wedge", "trapazoid" or whatever you want to call it but if you set it up right, you will be able to stand in one end, cook just about anywhere underneath, heat it with a small fire and reflecting wall if need be and weather through a hurricane.

tie off EVERY grommet or loop if you want to survive ANY type of wind. it may not be windy at bed time but why get up in the middle of the night to fix it then?

why hangout in a tree when you can have a full size room?:D
My latest version is basically a big old room with a hammock under it. So you get that same stuff, but don't have to be a lowly ground sleeper. :p

shelterbuilder

10-25-2007, 19:34

Don't use a ridgeline! Run seperate ropes off of each side (grommet or loop) to trees, rocks, etc. and then you don't have to worry about water running on a ridge line.
Site selection is the most important aspect of tarping.
use the "flying diamond, "wedge", "trapazoid" or whatever you want to call it but if you set it up right, you will be able to stand in one end, cook just about anywhere underneath, heat it with a small fire and reflecting wall if need be and weather through a hurricane.
tie off EVERY grommet or loop if you want to survive ANY type of wind. it may not be windy at bed time but why get up in the middle of the night to fix it then?
why hangout in a tree when you can have a full size room?:D

My concern regarding a "no ridgeline" pitch is that, under certain conditions, it is very possible to rip out a grommet. (I've had it happen already.) Windy conditions can "blow up" out of nowhere, and that can really place stress on the tarp fabric. That is why I suggested a ridgeline.

From the rest of what you've said, it sounds like we may have read some of the same books "way back when". Colonel Whelen and Brad Angier are 2 authors who come readily to mind!:-?

Jim Adams

10-26-2007, 00:49

My concern regarding a "no ridgeline" pitch is that, under certain conditions, it is very possible to rip out a grommet. (I've had it happen already.) Windy conditions can "blow up" out of nowhere, and that can really place stress on the tarp fabric. That is why I suggested a ridgeline.

From the rest of what you've said, it sounds like we may have read some of the same books "way back when". Colonel Whelen and Brad Angier are 2 authors who come readily to mind!:-?

The ridge line will not make the tarp any stronger or put less pressure on the grommets or loops. The only way to keep grommets and loops from tearing out is to tie off (guy) all of them even if the weather is mild. 5 minutes extra of set-up is better than 15 minutes of attempted repair at 3am.
I've never read anything about tarp pitching and most of my set-ups have come from experience of trial and error. Although I do use several different set-ups depending on weather, I use a corner high, corner low wedge design the most. I weathered 3 days of the Ohio River Valley aftermath of Hurricane Hugo under a tarp and ALL of myself and my gear stayed dry without tears or ripped grommets! 40-70mph winds and rain for the three days made me realize that I was glad to have some set-up experience prior to that storm. Tarps are an absolute wonderful shelter but practice in your yard first or endure a windy and wet education!:D

geek

Jim Adams

10-26-2007, 00:56

PS. Buy a cheap "blue" wal-mart poly tarp for $3 to learn with in your yard. The set-ups will be the same but it saves your "good" tarp for the trail.
Also if you are just learning, stick with square dimensions, (8x8, 10x10, 12x12, etc.) it makes set-up so much easier. Oblong tarps take alot more wind and storm direction consideration due to one side being the "open" side and the other being the "closed" side. 10x10 is about perfect for 2 people and a silnylon 10x10 is only around a pound.

good luck,

geek

Bootstrap

10-26-2007, 07:25

use the "flying diamond, "wedge", "trapazoid" or whatever you want to call it but if you set it up right, you will be able to stand in one end, cook just about anywhere underneath, heat it with a small fire and reflecting wall if need be and weather through a hurricane.

This is helpful - if I know what criteria I'm trying to achieve, it's a lot better to know if I've achieved it. Couple of questions here:

If I can stand in one end then I must be tying one end to something taller than me, such as a tree. But I wouldn't want to make a small fire next to a tree. Or do you generally pitch your tarp next to a big rock or overhang or somesuch?

What are you using for a reflecting wall?

tie off EVERY grommet or loop if you want to survive ANY type of wind. it may not be windy at bed time but why get up in the middle of the night to fix it then?j

How many grommets and loops should I want to have on a 10x10 tarp? (The one I try from WalMart may not be set up optimally for camping ;->)

Is there a reason to prefer grommets to loops or vice versa?

why hangout in a tree when you can have a full size room?:D

I like the idea of being more outside, too.

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-26-2007, 07:30

The ridge line will not make the tarp any stronger or put less pressure on the grommets or loops.

There seem to be two opinions on this question. Has anyone tested this systematically?

Although I do use several different set-ups depending on weather, I use a corner high, corner low wedge design the most.

And what kind of site selection do you prefer - a mild slope next to a tree, like the other guys here?

I weathered 3 days of the Ohio River Valley aftermath of Hurricane Hugo under a tarp and ALL of myself and my gear stayed dry without tears or ripped grommets! 40-70mph winds and rain for the three days made me realize that I was glad to have some set-up experience prior to that storm.

Cool story. This last Spring, our group had to abort a trip because two of the four tents, all expensive REI-style tents, were compromised in a storm. I was dry (and sorry to abort the trip), but I love the irony of people getting wet in expensive tents while you stay dry with just a tarp.

Tarps are an absolute wonderful shelter but practice in your yard first or endure a windy and wet education!

Yes, I will. For one thing, it's fun to do with my daughter - we cooked breakfast over a Supercat on the back porch yesterday ;->

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-26-2007, 07:32

PS. Buy a cheap "blue" wal-mart poly tarp for $3 to learn with in your yard. The set-ups will be the same but it saves your "good" tarp for the trail.

A poly tarp like that should work fine for the first trip or so, I'd expect, no? Is it that much heavier than the silnylon? Is it stronger?

[quote]Also if you are just learning, stick with square dimensions, (8x8, 10x10, 12x12, etc.) it makes set-up so much easier. Oblong tarps take alot more wind and storm direction consideration due to one side being the "open" side and the other being the "closed" side. 10x10 is about perfect for 2 people and a silnylon 10x10 is only around a pound./quote]

Thanks - very helpful.

Jonathan

Jim Adams

10-26-2007, 17:37

OK, here we go!
these may not be in order but I'll try to cover it all.

no, a wal-mart poly tarp will not be good even for your first trip. no they are not as strong and yes they are too heavy and bulky HOWEVER as a side note...they make the best saunas because the heat doesn't transfer through them as easily.

tie 25' of very light line to each corner of your tarp and wind them all seperatly to keep them from tangling. also if you want to orient your tarp easier and quickly, you can use different colored line on the "side corners" (best for oblong tarps) or just a different color for your high "front corner" on a square tarp. this saves some confusion when setting up under storm conditions. carry a 25' spare hank of light line just in case.

yes, the tall end will be tied off to a tree, possibly even 10'-15' in front of the tarp corner and you may have to stand or climb on something to tie off high enough. leave a small piece of rope tied to the high front corner grommet so that any water running down the rope will fall before running down the underside of the tarp.
distance between trees can vary from the actual distance corner to corner or possibly up to trees 30' apart.

you want to tie off the low corner at ground level and FACING into the wind and the high corner leeward.

as far as site goes, you do not want to set it up only to have the water run down the tarp and then because of the lay of the land, run back under the tarp. the ground should GENTLY slope toward the LOW corner.
by not tying the high corner up against the tree, you should have plenty of room to have a small fire near (not inside) the high entrance. if there happens not to already be a small fire ring in that spot, please remember LNT ethics and build your fire on a fire pan. you can use a small rock set upright to reflect the heat back into the tarp. the fire works far better than expected however in 20 years of tarping i can count the number of fires at my tarp entrance on one hand. you only need a small fire.

grommets or loops, either works good as long as there are enough of them. either should not be more than 2' apart and 18" is even better.

now with the site sloping correctly and the high and low corners tied off, simply pull out the two sides (wings) and tie them at ground level to LARGE rocks, trees or roots.
use the extra rope left over after tying all four corners to tie the remaining grommets or loops off. SECURE THEM ALL! your tarp should be pulled tight everywhere. if your tarp flaps in the wind, it will keep you awake in a light wind and tear apart in a stiff wind...NO FLAPPING!
if you dont mind and have the time to restore the site back to LNT in the morning, lay fallen trees, logs , sticks and /or rocks along the outside edges to keep the wind out. usually only for a base camp or multiple day camp site.

carry a piece of tyvek as a ground cloth. although it doesnt need to be big enough to be a footprint, it should be large enough to have your mat and sleeping bag on the tyvek with your pack and any other gear also laying on the tyvek to keep it out of the dirt. each person should have their own tyvek. usually you can place your packs and gear in the low pointy end to save "high" space and also to help block wind under the edges.

lastly, you can use your hiing sticks inside the tarp in the low pointy end to raise the tarp and make alittle more headroom back there. the same can be accomplished with outside loops on the face of the tarp being pulled up and tied to trees and / or rocks.

I was at a pass on the PCT this summer at 8,000' in a rain storm that then turned into a snow storm with 40-45mph wind and horizontal blowing snow. I was the only one there with a tarp. (10x10) The other 15 or so hikers there had small tents or tarptents and were huddled in their confines worried about me and my tarp. By the time darkness fell, they had all come over to "visit" and get out of the wind without laying on the ground. The mostly heard comment..."I never knew!"

learn and experiment..but have fun!

geek

Jim Adams

10-26-2007, 17:45

oops!
just for info...this set-up is for the worst weather that you will encounter. there are many different set-ups for just keeping dew off, watching a great sunrise or a beautiful sunset or just to stay out of a dry but annoying wind.

also you don't need heavy line...although expensive but also being reflective at night, Kelty triptease is about the heaviest line that you need.

geek

Bootstrap

10-26-2007, 18:00

no, a wal-mart poly tarp will not be good even for your first trip. no they are not as strong and yes they are too heavy and bulky HOWEVER as a side note...they make the best saunas because the heat doesn't transfer through them as easily.

Is that a serious point about saunas? You can make a sauna with nothing more than a tarp?

The rest of this info is great. I think I'm armed enough to start playing in my yard, and I know what to try. Thanks - I'll let you know what issues come up ;->

Jonathan

shelterbuilder

10-26-2007, 18:19

Jim and I seem to differ in some SMALL ways regarding our tarps. I personally do not like grommets because when you set in a grommet, you punch a hole in the fabric of the tarp, and this hole becomes a weak spot in the fabric. Under EXTREME stress, the fabric can fail at this point. (That's not to say that it WILL, just that it COULD.) My preference is a loop that is sewn into a reinforcing patch that is in turn sewn into the edge of the tarp. (I had some bad experiences with grommets pulling out, so I'm leery of them. That may just be me.)

A ridgeline under the tarp doesn't make the tarp any stronger, but it does tend to take some of the stress off of the tarp fabric in extremely windy conditions, IMO. Jim is right when he says to anchor ALL of your grommets/loops, and make them so the tarp doesn't flap. This will help to keep your tarp from acting like a sail - you need the tarp to shed the wind, not catch it.

Jim Adams

10-26-2007, 18:23

Is that a serious point about saunas? You can make a sauna with nothing more than a tarp?

The rest of this info is great. I think I'm armed enough to start playing in my yard, and I know what to try. Thanks - I'll let you know what issues come up ;->

Jonathan

OOOHHHHH YYYEEESSS!!!!!!

I've used a poly tarp quite a few times on canoe trips (weight isn't on your back) to make a wilderness sauna.
I actually got tired of "fabricating" one from the tarp and made one from poly tarps.
Size is very dependent on size of the group but for instance: layout an 8'x8' poly tarp on the ground. use a marker and mark a line about 4" inside of the grommets the entire way around the perimeter of the tarp. Cut an 8x16 tarp (or similar size) in half lengthwise so that you have 2- 4'x16' walls. Sew these walls on the marker line, grommet side hanging.
Let the ends overlap as doors.
Tie some heavy line to each corner of the 8x8 tarp.

Tie those corners off to 4 different trees and then tie the other grommets off as needed to make the structure hang level.

Heat several large rocks in a fire until they glow red then carry them on a cooking grate or roll them with sticks into the middle of the shelter. Take a few nalgene bottles of water in and close the doors. Have other rocks in the fire heating as replacements if you want to sauna very long but 4-5 rocks will usually produce steam for 10 minutes.
BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE HOT ROCKS! They will burn you immediately if touched and will melt the tarp even quicker if contacted but in 20 years of saunas, no one in our groups have been burned. Just be careful.

A NYLON TARP BE IT SIL, URETHANE COATED OR PLAIN WILL WORK BUT NOT AS WELL!

Had a sauna at Trail Days on my 2002 thru.:sun

geek

Bootstrap

10-28-2007, 13:16

Here's another way to set up a tarp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBeZqXU4zk

That seems simple, using one trekking pole and 6 stakes to make something a lot like a traditional tent.

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-28-2007, 14:03

OK, I've been pitching the tarp in the back yard, using a cheap Wal-Mart tarp. I'm convinced now that I have the basic idea. I especially like the open feel of the flying triangle, the whole front opens up to the outside I'm there to see.

I'm trying to decide which tarp to buy. These two from Campmor look good to me:

10 ft. x 10 ft. Versatile Nylon Tarp
Item Number: 22220
http://tinyurl.com/2kc7s4

10 ft. x 12 ft. Ultralight Backpacking Tarp
Item Number: 20070
http://tinyurl.com/2l37mq

The second is not square, but the flying diamond, the A-line variants, and the other designs I've looked at don't really seem to need a square tarp. Is there any reason not to start with a 10x12 tarp?

How much advantage is there in spending the extra money for silnylon? Is there any advantage besides the considerable weight savings? Is either tarp likely to be more durable?

Jonathan

Uncle Silly

10-28-2007, 14:44

Weight is the primary advantage to silnylon. If you notice, the specs on that 10x10 tarp say "2.2 oz nylon taffeta", while the 10x12 is made of "1.1 oz ripstop nylon". Essentially the 10x10 is a material twice as heavy as the 10x12. Their weights reflect this: 2lb 6oz (38oz) for the 10x10, versus 1lb 3oz (19oz) for the 10x12. I'd expect the 10x10 tarp to be more durable.

If this is equipment for a thru-hike, consider that the 10x10 weighs as much as a good lightweight 1- or 2-man tent. (Cost is considerably less than a 2lb tent tho.) Personally, I think the weight savings is worth the extra cost -- you're doubling cost to halve weight. It's a pretty good trade-off.

Jim Adams

10-29-2007, 00:29

I've had / have both of those tarps. Both work well. The coated nylon will last longer and is stronger than the sil tarp but is heavier.
The 10 x12 will work fine if you are used to setting up the tarps. In that flying triangle set-up just be wise to possible wind shifts because since one side will be shorter than the other it kinda opens that shorter side and will let more weather in than if you had the long side on the windward side.
It will also be a little harder to guy all areas of the tarp to tightness due to the asymetrics of the tarp but it can be done.
Practice it all at home so that there are no surprises out in thee field.

geek

Heater

10-29-2007, 02:12

Does the dog know the best setup?

Hammock, tarp or tent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mW47RP95Eo)

Bootstrap

10-29-2007, 15:24

OK, so now I can get a 10x10 that's as light as the 10x12, but it costs a little more. Should I pay a little extra for the 10x10, or just practice in the yard a little extra with the 10x12?

I finally found a 10x10 silnylon tarp for under $100.00, from Etowah:

http://www.etowahoutfittersultralightbackpackinggear.com/tarps.html

They also have a 1.9oz. nylon taffeta or rip stop, coated with 1/2oz. of urethane, for 1/2 the price. Total weight for the silnylon: 18 oz. For the ripstop/taffeta: 32 oz. Total prices roughly $100.00 and $50.00, e.g. from SunDog Outfitters:

http://store.sundogoutfitter.com/Items/etw3015?
http://store.sundogoutfitter.com/Items/etw3002?

Jonathan

P.S. I promise I'll just make a decision and stop asking about brands ;->

Jim Adams

10-29-2007, 15:46

As long as you guy these tarps correctly so that wind doesn't destroy them, they will both last a long time. Ultraviolet deterioration is your biggest problem. The Campmor prices are hard to beat but as long as you don't mind the extra ounces, I would go with the 10x10 coated nylon for $39.95.
A week, month or season change down the trail and you decide that you like tents better, you haven't spent as much for the wrong shelter! There seems to be no middle ground...hikers either love tarps or hate tarps. Given a choice of just a tarp or a tent, I will pick the tarp everytime because it is so much more versatle. Also be aware that the sil tarp will also pack smaller than the coated nylon.
Now that I just added more confusion to the decision...good luck!

geek

Bootstrap

10-30-2007, 07:06

Jim Adams

10-30-2007, 22:08

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:11

My 10 year old daughter, my dog, and I just spent a night under a tarp (flying diamond). It was a 10x12 cheap poly tarp from StanSport, to see if I like that size, which I do.

Compared to a tent, it felt very open, very much outside, and very roomy. It was fun having our dog right with us, there wouldn't be room in our tent. And in the morning I made scrambled eggs in the front of the tarp with an alcohol stove, which gave us some warmth.

It hit freezing, and it definitely felt colder than my tent would have been. We had good sleeping bags, so that wasn't a problem, but I think I would probably plan for at least 5 degrees colder sleeping with a tarp than with a tent, based on my subjective experience from last night. Does this match the experience of others? Or are there ways to pitch a tarp that are warmer?

Jonathan

Depends on the tarp, but yes, you can close one up if you have the right kind. Look at the survivor tarp from Etowah. You can use the ridgeline with two hiking poles to support it. Then you pin it down at the tie outs that are one back from the end on both sides - this leaves a set of flaps you can then stake down together like doors on both ends which also have beaks over the top to protect the doors.

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:17

Here is sort of a diagram. I don't have a picture of this handy

Jim Adams

10-30-2007, 22:19

SGT Rock,
I stayed in that tarp overnight once and it is a very good piece of equipment but if you are setting it up too low to stand under, then why not take a tent?

geek

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:24

Well because you can still set it up like a tarp. Here is a picture of me inside one with my hammock:

http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=272801

And a picture of it from the outside:

http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=272802

ed bell

10-30-2007, 22:24

I have used a 10x12 tarp many times in the ground to 3' high config. Always loved the open feeling and always loved the option of closing down the sides for tough weather. 10x12 is a lot of room to get creative. Add the protection of natural features and you can do just about all you want. I still use doble wall tents, but I love to take my tarp.

Jim Adams

10-30-2007, 22:29

SGT Rock,
Nice setup! I don't hammock so I never thought of your set-up.

Ed Bell,
ME TOO!

geek

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:30

SGT Rock,
Nice setup! I don't hammock so I never thought of your set-up.

Ed Bell,
ME TOO!

geek
I can't take all the credit - many ideas are borrowed from Youngblood.

Bootstrap

10-30-2007, 22:32

You are correct!
An open tarp will never be as warm as a closed tent but a closed tent will never have the room that the tarp does. The only way to make the tarp as warm is to close it up like a tent. The tarp is just to keep you out of the weather...your sleeping bag is to keep you warm.

OK, I get it.

Sounds like you have really been getting into the tarp set-up thing...how's it going? Is it getting more secure and rigid? Still learning something new every time?

It's been cold, but not much wind or rain, so it's hard to know for sure, but I've set it up several times with the flying diamond (using two different tarps), and that's easy enough. Got a bunch of aluminum gutter spikes, which are a lot lighter than the tent stakes that came with my tent and hold well. It seems secure, I'm not sure rigid is the term I would use, the edges are taught, though, as is the bottom. I'm going to start trying other configurations.

Honestly, I feel like a little boy, I'm having lots of fun playing around with this in my back yard, and my daughter likes it too. I'm finding that just playing around with cheap tarps is a very helpful way for figuring out what I woudl actually be willing to spend money on.

By the way, my daughter was disappointed that I made her sleep inside tonight ;->

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:33

By the way, my daughter was disappointed that I made her sleep inside tonight ;->

Jonathan

Sounds like a great kid.

Bootstrap

10-30-2007, 22:37

Depends on the tarp, but yes, you can close one up if you have the right kind. Look at the survivor tarp from Etowah. You can use the ridgeline with two hiking poles to support it. Then you pin it down at the tie outs that are one back from the end on both sides - this leaves a set of flaps you can then stake down together like doors on both ends which also have beaks over the top to protect the doors.

Nice - but probably better for one person than for two, no? Is there anything like that in a 10x12 tarp? You seem to imply that not all tarps can be closed up for warmth like that. What do people do in a bad blow when it's cold and wet?

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-30-2007, 22:38

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:40

Nice - but probably better for one person than for two, no? Is there anything like that in a 10x12 tarp? You seem to imply that not all tarps can be closed up for warmth like that. What do people do in a bad blow when it's cold and wet?

Jonathan
Well you can do it with just about any rectangular tarp provided it has the tie outs in the right spots. You could do that with this tarp and two people but it would be a VERY tight fit - that said, the inside is about the size of an Army pup tent so I have done it before with two adults. This tarp is an 8' x 6' tarp, so if you wanted a little more space look at an 8' x 10' tarp and make sure it has about 5 tie outs along the long side and at least three on the short side.

Bootstrap

10-30-2007, 22:40

Sounds like a great kid.

Oh she is, she's wonderful! Loves to try new things out, pretty much fearless.

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-30-2007, 22:41

And that's all homemade? Is it pretty easy to make a good homemade hammock?

Jonathan
The hammock is homemade. The tarp is an Etowah survivor tarp. The stand is homemade also.

A regular old hammock is VERY easy to make. Adding a bug net and such would be more of a trick.

Jim Adams

10-30-2007, 22:42

Bootstrap,
Good deal! It is alot of fun at times...sort off like playing chess with the weather. Now is the time to make mistakes, not in a bad storm.

I try not to use stakes if possible because they will almost always pull out in bad wind. I try to tie off to trees, logs, bushes, rocks and roots. You can tie off very secure that way. BTW, just a thought that I don't know if anyone has mentioned yet, if you tie off to trees or bushes that will hold up against the wind but also bend with the wind...it will take some of the tension or pressure off of the grommets and help preserve your tarp in heavy wind however they should never be small enough to let the tarp "flap".

geek

Bootstrap

10-31-2007, 18:05

A regular old hammock is VERY easy to make. Adding a bug net and such would be more of a trick.

I suppose I just grab some parachute cloth, fold it over at each end, and tie a rope to it? Or do I have to get fancier? Is such a tarp enough for prime time?

How about something cheap from Campmor?

Or would I be better off deciding to just buy something real like a Hennessy Hammock?

Jonathan

Bootstrap

10-31-2007, 18:10

use stakes if possible because they will almost always pull out in bad wind. I try to tie off to trees, logs, bushes, rocks and roots. You can tie off very secure that way.

Hmmmm, this means I pitched the tarp in the absolute wrong part of my yard. "Site selection", eh? I'll have to move it.

But doesn't this also mean that the edges and corners will be slightly elevated, letting in more air and cold?

BTW, just a thought that I don't know if anyone has mentioned yet, if you tie off to trees or bushes that will hold up against the wind but also bend with the wind...it will take some of the tension or pressure off of the grommets and help preserve your tarp in heavy wind however they should never be small enough to let the tarp "flap".

Cool! OK, I'll probably move it tomorrow, I'm infested by ghosts and spooks right now ....

Jonathan

shelterbuilder

10-31-2007, 18:47

Hey, Bootstrap -

If you're pitching in a really bad wind, keep your ridgeline low, and stretch your windward side out as far away from the ridgeline as possible, and anchor that side down tight to the ground. That way, the tarp will be catching the wind at a very shallow angle, and will tend to lift the wind instead of catching it. Less stress on the tarp and the stakes. (I like to use LARGE rocks for this, but then, I'm in Pa. - large rocks are all we have!) The flying diamond does this as a matter of course, but if you have to pitch broadside to the wind for some reason, keep this in mind.

SGT Rock

10-31-2007, 19:57

To make a hammock, Just Jeff has a very easy set of instructions to follow.

shelterbuilder

10-31-2007, 21:42

To make a hammock, Just Jeff has a very easy set of instructions to follow.

Is there a link for that?

SGT Rock

10-31-2007, 21:43

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock.html

shelterbuilder

10-31-2007, 22:20

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock.html

thanks, SGT Rock.

SGT Rock

10-31-2007, 22:26

My pleasure.

Bootstrap

11-09-2007, 15:51

In a bad blow, would you rather be inside this:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=438686&postcount=43
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=438697&postcount=44

Or the Trapezoid from this page:

http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html

In a bad blow, would you rather have stakes that hold the tent all the way down to the ground, or would you rather tie up to something like a bush or a tree - and if so, have you found a way to get the edges all the way down to the ground while doing that?

If the mosquitos are bad. would you just take a tent or a tarptent, or is there an approach that works as well with a tarp?

Jonathan

SGT Rock

11-09-2007, 15:55

canerunner

11-09-2007, 16:20

Last weekend, I used a trapezoid setup based on an 8x8 tarp, and using one of my trekking poles for the door pole.

The first night, I slept in a valley, and used 6 stakes. One at each front corner, three at the foot to spread it, and one for the door pole to stretch the ridgeline. I wasn't concerned with wind, as I had a good site that was protected by a laurel thicket.

The second night, we set camp on a ridgeline so we could starwatch. The wind coming over the ridge was pretty strong and constant, so I pitched the tarp with the foot into the wind and on the ground. I used the three stakes at the foot to hold it stretched out, two at the door to hold it in place, then two on each side to keep the sides firmly on the ground. With one more for the trekking pole to keep the ridgeline stretched tight, the tarp was absolutely quiet, and let no wind in under the sides or foot.

The apparent temperature inside the tarp was about 15-20 degrees warmer than outside, but most of that is due to the lack of wind chill factor. Although the outside temperature was in the low 20s overnight, I slept very warm and comfortable in a bag that was rated for a much higher temperature by just wearing an additional layer of clothes and a knit watch cap.

A good tarp, set up correctly for the conditions, can be as comfortable as a tent. Using a good ground cloth and no-see-um netting can make a tarp a viable alternative to a tent, and usually at a much lower weight.

Bootstrap

11-09-2007, 17:23

In a BAD blow I would go with a trapazoid most likely, or a variation of that. In that same sort of situation I would probably do a couple of things - trench the outide and depending on the terrrain and vegitation I might do some leaves or pine needles around the edges to make a break.

Thanks - that's easy to visualize.

In buggy weather I would add a net.

What's the best way to do this? Most of the nets I see seem to be designed to use one particular way, which means you lose a lot of the native flexibility of a tarp. I like the flying diamond or the modified A-line as a default setup, and would probably use the trapezoid if I start getting nervous, so I'd like a bug net to be able to accomodate those shapes.

Jonathan

Bootstrap

11-09-2007, 17:31

The first night, I slept in a valley, and used 6 stakes. One at each front corner, three at the foot to spread it, and one for the door pole to stretch the ridgeline. I wasn't concerned with wind, as I had a good site that was protected by a laurel thicket.

The second night, we set camp on a ridgeline so we could starwatch. The wind coming over the ridge was pretty strong and constant, so I pitched the tarp with the foot into the wind and on the ground. I used the three stakes at the foot to hold it stretched out, two at the door to hold it in place, then two on each side to keep the sides firmly on the ground. With one more for the trekking pole to keep the ridgeline stretched tight, the tarp was absolutely quiet, and let no wind in under the sides or foot.

It sounds like it's always a good idea to have a few extra stakes, or to have the maximum that you just might need.

The apparent temperature inside the tarp was about 15-20 degrees warmer than outside, but most of that is due to the lack of wind chill factor. Although the outside temperature was in the low 20s overnight, I slept very warm and comfortable in a bag that was rated for a much higher temperature by just wearing an additional layer of clothes and a knit watch cap.

My experience so far makes me think that it's a lot warmer with a tarp than out in the open, but a lot warmer in my REI Half Dome II than with just a tarp. Do you disagree?

A good tarp, set up correctly for the conditions, can be as comfortable as a tent.

Does that depend on the conditions? Are there conditions where you would prefer a tent?

Using a good ground cloth and no-see-um netting can make a tarp a viable alternative to a tent, and usually at a much lower weight.

Using netting with a tarp is the last big thing I just haven't figured out with the tarp ....

Jonathan

SGT Rock

11-09-2007, 17:38

Thanks - that's easy to visualize.

What's the best way to do this? Most of the nets I see seem to be designed to use one particular way, which means you lose a lot of the native flexibility of a tarp. I like the flying diamond or the modified A-line as a default setup, and would probably use the trapezoid if I start getting nervous, so I'd like a bug net to be able to accomodate those shapes.

Jonathan
That just depends on a usage thing - just remember for me I mostly live in a hammock and that provides my bug protection. Some folks have added a bug net skirt to tarps so they can raise them up for ventalation while having a bug net that reaches the ground all the way around. I honestly don't know what would be the "best" solution.

maxNcathy

11-09-2007, 17:51

www.gossamergear.com (http://www.gossamergear.com) shows how to pitch their tarps/shelters. I bought the Spinnshelter and it is solid and keeps out the water in high winds and rain(after I seam sealed the ridgeline area)
Note: if you are a super light sleeper the sound of the sailcloth shaking in the wind may bother you. Okay for me though as I sleep soundly.

shelterbuilder

11-09-2007, 19:49

...What's the best way to do this? Most of the nets I see seem to be designed to use one particular way, which means you lose a lot of the native flexibility of a tarp. I like the flying diamond or the modified A-line as a default setup, and would probably use the trapezoid if I start getting nervous, so I'd like a bug net to be able to accomodate those shapes.

Jonathan

I don't know if there are pages devoted to bug nets or not - I know that when I made mine (back in the early 80's), I had nothing to go by, so I took some ripstop nylon for the "bottom" of the bug bag, used no-see-em netting for the rest, and added a 2-way zipper on one side, between the no-see-em panel and the ripstop nylon. I have 2 small D-rings attached to the top of the bug bag, and I can use these to suspend the bag from one or both ends. When you are inside of it, your shoulders push the sides out, and since it's suspended from above, the netting is away from your face, and that's all that matters. There are some other features to this design that allow me to use it with a hammock, but if you're on the ground, those features are irrelevant. Most of this is just "straight-seam" sewing, and isn't that difficult (even setting in the zipper is pretty simple).

canerunner

11-09-2007, 20:50

It sounds like it's always a good idea to have a few extra stakes, or to have the maximum that you just might need.

I carry as many stakes as I will need for the most complex setup, plus 1. I do carry pretty light (15 g) stakes that are very sturdy and hold well. You can carry whatever you like, but I prefer the hollow aluminum stakes (look like a big nail) over the thinner ones. They seem to hold better.

My experience so far makes me think that it's a lot warmer with a tarp than out in the open, but a lot warmer in my REI Half Dome II than with just a tarp. Do you disagree?

The way the heat is retained is by limiting air movement. There isn't any insulation value to speak of in a tarp or a two walled tent. A fully enclosed tent will keep the air inside better than an open tarp, but you can hang a space blanket or something over the open "door" of a tarp if you need to restrict airflow..

You have to have ventilation to prevent condensation. If you get condensation inside your Half Dome, the condensation can start dripping on you and your gear. You're way less comfortable when cold and wet than when cold and dry.

I can set a tarp to keep me dry AND well ventilated, so I don't have any condensation problems. Again, we get back to the point that the tent (or tarp) is there to protect you from wind, rain, snow, etc. The sleeping bag is what keeps you warm. A dry sleeping bag will keep you warmer than one that's even slightly damp.

Does that depend on the conditions? Are there conditions where you would prefer a tent?

Everything depends on the conditions. Tent or tarp, your comfort is conditional on how well it can be adapted to the conditions. The reality is that a tent can only be set up in one configuration, or maybe two, if you consider a "light and fast" rig (Fly, footprint, poles and stakes, No Inner body.) to be a separate setup. With the" light and fast setup", you are essentially carrying a tarp, groundcloth and stakes. Regardless, the setup is almost the same, and there is no real concession made for flexibility in the setup.

With a tarp, I can carry a lighter shelter that gives me more room, and depending on the conditions I find when I get to where I want to camp, I can set it up in at least 6 different configurations, and tailor the setup to allow more ventilation, more wind protection, more rain protection, or a combination.

Sure, there are conditions where I'd rather use a tent, but I don't do much mountaineering, and very little car camping. :D

I actually have several tents, but have just gotten very comfortable with using a tarp.

Using netting with a tarp is the last big thing I just haven't figured out with the tarp ....

There are several ways to use netting with a tarp. one is to sew some Velcro strips on the tarp and netting so that you can attach it when you want to use the netting. Another is to have a bug net that you set like a tent body, and just let it hang inside the tarp. Your groundcloth will act as your floor.

I've never had a situation where I needed to have the edges of the net staked down to prevent something from getting inside.

We have all been where you are now. Trying to decide on what to carry for your first major outing can be daunting. Heck, even trying to decide what to carry for your 40th outing could be daunting. Equiping for a 2000 mile journey requires a lot of thought, and a lot of questions and testing.

The best thing I can suggest is to try stuff! Get a cheap plastic tarp, and take it out in the yard a play around with it. You will simply amaze yourself at how easy it is to setup and how much room you can have under it.

amigo

11-11-2007, 22:50

I have a 4' x 6' sheet of fine netting that weighs 2 oz that I sometimes use. I just gather a point near the center, tie it with cord, then fasten the cord overhead (using a grip-clip, or tied to a ridge line under the tarp). Then I just tuck the edges under my Big Agnes mattress. This covers your head, shoulders, and upper torso, but is not full length, which can be a problem on a hot muggy night when you don't want to be in your sleeping bag. I recently bought a Mountain Laurel Designs bug bivy that is full length and weighs 5.8 oz that I will use in the height of summer.

Bootstrap

11-13-2007, 18:41

Thanks for all the ideas on bug bivys and netting - I know what to play with now.

Canerunner suggests:

The best thing I can suggest is to try stuff! Get a cheap plastic tarp, and take it out in the yard a play around with it. You will simply amaze yourself at how easy it is to setup and how much room you can have under it.

That's *exactly* where my questions are coming from. I have the tarps in my back yard, I've been playing with them and slept in one overnight, these were the questions that came up as a result of that exercise.

Jonathan

Bootstrap

12-18-2007, 17:37

I bought two tarps - a 10x10 nylon coated tarp from Etowah Outfitters (2 pounds), and a used Golite Cave 2 (1 pound).

So far, I really prefer the 10x10. I'm finding it's no harder, maybe easier, to pitch it than to pitch a tent or the Golite, and I like the flexibility of being able to pitch it many ways. I had it set up in a Flying A, and a friend asked what I would do in bad weather, so I took out the stakes and repitched it in a Trapezoid, it's really quite fast to do that (fine tuning afterward can take longer, though ...)

The extra room is *really* nice. And although a cheap poly tarp is fine for learning the pitches, the feel is really much better, and much nicer, with a real backpacking tarp.

It's below freezing at night now, and my main gripe is the open space between the tarp edges and the ground. Here are options I see:

- Use a 12" tie out on each loop, stake into the ground.
- Use tie-offs on each loop, tie to local shrubbery, per Jim Adams
- Stake the loops directly into the ground - that reduces the gap to almost nothing
- Stick my backpack and any extra stuff lying around in the way of the wind

Is there always going to be some draft from the bottom of the tarp? Do I want to keep the edge off the ground to allow better form when pitching, or get it down where it keeps the wind out?

Jonathan

russb

12-18-2007, 19:12

Unless I need the ventilation I pitch the edges directly to the ground, this also reduces the usable square footage slighty so I only do this when the weather requires it. Have fun with different pitches, a 10x10 gives you many options. Have fun.

JAK

12-18-2007, 20:51

I use a small 4'x8' tarp and a very adequate CF Gortex Bivy. For the same weight I could have a small tent but I like the versatility of it in the woods.

Normally I would just pitch a long lean to on the windward side of a tree with the high end towards the tree, or something irregular to take advantage of rocks or fallen trees or whatever. In a real storm I would lay down my 72"x28" blue foam pad on the lee side of a tree with the head towards the trunk and put my gortex bivy on that with the sleeping bag inside. The 4'x8' tarp then gets pitched in a modified A-frame, with the high and narrow end facing the tree, and the low and wide end over the bivy, and the bottom half of the bivy sticking out from underneath the tarp.

I use my pack in various ways, usually to help block the wind and store what gear I'm working on while I make tea or whatever on the less windy side just an arms reach from my tarp. Snow make it easier to make level ground and make shelter from the wind. Haven't had to deal with extremely deep snow or extreme floods with snow here on the coast, or a tree or branch falling down on me yet. I hope to have more experience under my belt before that happens. Just making it up as I go along mostly. Things aren't too extreme here like in the mountains or further inland, though it can still get very cold and wet and windy here.

I think picking the right side of a hill and right part of the woods to pitch your tarp in is just as important as finding the right tree to pitch under.