Survival hike

[taildragger]

Just curious, has anyone thought about doing a hunter gatherer style hike. Bring only the food that you would need to safely make it off the trail, and try to survive by only eating what you get off the trail?

I have thought about trying to put together such a hike one fall on the Ouchita trail in Oklahoma, and I just wanted some input on how stupid or brilliant this idea is.

We'd put a lot of research into what plants we could eat, then carry a .22 caliber rifle, and a fishing poll.

Thoughts?

[warraghiyagey]

Just curious, has anyone thought about doing a hunter gatherer style hike. Bring only the food that you would need to safely make it off the trail, and try to survive by only eating what you get off the trail?

I have thought about trying to put together such a hike one fall on the Ouchita trail in Oklahoma, and I just wanted some input on how stupid or brilliant this idea is.

We'd put a lot of research into what plants we could eat, then carry a .22 caliber rifle, and a fishing poll.

Thoughts?

Guns and hiking? Yikes, even in the face of the survivalist concept. What do you plan to do with the complete carcass of kills? Take what you want and throw the rest away? Use every bit of the kill?
Sounds more like an Eric Rudolph thing than someone who wants to enjoy a hike.

[ChimneySpring]

Into the Wild Part 2?

Are firearms legal to carry and discharge on that trail, at that time of the year? And, are bag limits sufficient to feed your hiking party? I would recommend some sort of over/under configuration with rifle and shotgun capability. That way you wouldn't have to limit yourself to small game. I would also look into possible methods to cure and store meat.

[taildragger]

Into the Wild Part 2?

Are firearms legal to carry and discharge on that trail, at that time of the year? And, are bag limits sufficient to feed your hiking party? I would recommend some sort of over/under configuration with rifle and shotgun capability. That way you wouldn't have to limit yourself to small game. I would also look into possible methods to cure and store meat.

Into the wild part 2, not quite, both of us are fairly skilled hunters and hikers.

A .410 would be more ideal for what we want to do, but my .410s are more problematic than my .22s

As for bag limits, yes they should suffice (its usually something like 15 squirrels per day, a few rabbits etc...)

I wanted to keep it limited to foraging and small game because its easy to deal with a squirrel carcass, its about the right size for a fox, coyote, or coon to munch on what we don't use, and its small enough for daily consumption of the entire animal, curing and storing not necessarily as important.

Hunting, I cannot recall off the top of my head, I believe that there is on parts, this is really just a theory getting kicked around right now, and the having a stretch of land to walk through and hunt is the hardest part. I imagine that what will more than likely happen is that we would have to find a WMA and just bushwhack it for a week or so.


Hiking with guns is not really a scary thing, if you're used to being around it, I got into hiking because of hunting, and I'd like to combine the two and I see this as a challenge that will tie me more closely than I already am to the food chain directly.

OTOH, hiking with a bow is hard, I've done some hiking/camping while hauling my old Hoyt Super Slim II around, and that was a pain, its the reason why I got a much smaller/lighter bow.

[dessertrat]

The mountain men who lived off the land often left lots of carcasses all over the place, since they didn't have time to stop and cure or process hides, meat, etc.

That was not a big deal back in 1850, since there were a lot more scavengers, and a lot fewer people around. I think it would be the antithesis of "leave no trace" today. While it's a cool idea, I think the time for it has come and gone, as a matter of responsible hiking.

[Fiddler]

Over 40 years ago a fishing/camping friend and I would go up river several miles usually for about a 2 day trip. We carried enough food for 2, maybe 3 days. Sometimes we stayed a few days longer, up to 2 weeks. We survived on fish and edible plants. We knew which plants were good, some were quite tasty. A meal can be obtained in 10 or 15 minutes providing you are knowledgable of the edible plants in your area. With the right book to study, and a little practice, it could be done qiute easily. But study the plants well, some are poisonous.

[taildragger]

The mountain men who lived off the land often left lots of carcasses all over the place, since they didn't have time to stop and cure or process hides, meat, etc.

That was not a big deal back in 1850, since there were a lot more scavengers, and a lot fewer people around. I think it would be the antithesis of "leave no trace" today. While it's a cool idea, I think the time for it has come and gone, as a matter of responsible hiking.

The southern and south eastern parts of Oklahoma are still full of scavengers, lots of coons and other critters. I've left goose carcasses out at night, with the intent of taking the feathers when I woke up in the morning only to find the carcass has been taken, and no real trace was left.

So, I think that if I keep it to small game (squirells, rabbits etc..) that it won't really leave a trace, and if there are other people around, a squirrel is about the same size as a fieldy, I imagine that a cathole would do it justice.

[Cannibal]

A .410 would be more ideal for what we want to do, but my .410s are more problematic than my .22s

Don't know if they are still around or where you'd find them, but the USAF for a few years during the 80s issued a rifle/shotgun combo as part of an emergency kit for downed pilots. It was an over/under set-up with a .410 (under) and .22 (over). I've seen two of them thru the years, but I've never seen one for sale.

[warraghiyagey]

Guns aren't necessarilly a scary thing, especialy if you're used to being around them - as you say. But you're not taking into account the folks that are hiking for their own reasons as well who aren't used to them. Considering others sensibilities is a strength not a weakness.
Your take on the bow was interesting as convenience would be an issue, but I've considered this type of hike myself and while I imagined it with a broad study of plants and mushrooms and a fishing set up of some sort, I also considered the bow. Seems it would be lighter. Maybe less imposing to hikers who have never met you, but will, with maybe a rifle as part of what they're meeting.
But I wouldn't go past the fishing route until, if ever, I worked out a way to use every part of the animal, and for sure, to have worked out honoring said creature and with due reverence to the meaning of it all.

[take-a-knee]

Interesting concept, there are places in the mountain west or Alaska where that could be done. Colonel Townsend Whelen did several extended wilderness forays like that. Most places where you could do something like that are bear country and I'd reccommend something like a Steyr Scout rifle in 308. Ptarmigan and snowshoe hares are common on the tundra, either is quite a meal with some rice. Have reduced loads for small game 'cause that would be most of your pot meat. Kifaru's website has load data for reduced loads for several calibers. Have some long, heavy bullets "loaded for bear". An extended "Huck Finn" float trip, dining on fish would be a little more accessible for most of us.

[Marta]

Read "The Last American Man." Eustace Conway, Jr., did a hunter-gatherer hike of the AT. Rumor has it that he gathered some food from other hikers from time to time, but he also foraged for wild food.

[dessertrat]

Don't know if they are still around or where you'd find them, but the USAF for a few years during the 80s issued a rifle/shotgun combo as part of an emergency kit for downed pilots. It was an over/under set-up with a .410 (under) and .22 (over). I've seen two of them thru the years, but I've never seen one for sale.

That would be the M6 Scout survival rifle. It was made again for a few years in the early 2000's. They also made a pistol version in .22/.45 Long Colt.

[Cannibal]

Your take on the bow was interesting as convenience would be an issue, but I've considered this type of hike myself and while I imagined it with a broad study of plants and mushrooms and a fishing set up of some sort, I also considered the bow. Seems it would be lighter. Maybe less imposing to hikers who have never met you, but will, with maybe a rifle as part of what they're meeting.

What about some of the small crossbows? Get a little bit of the advantages of both systems and should be more than sufficent for the game you'd be looking for on a hike.

[taildragger]

What about some of the small crossbows? Get a little bit of the advantages of both systems and should be more than sufficent for the game you'd be looking for on a hike.

Illegal to use without an injured shoulder...and mines not injured enough since I can shoot a 70lbs bow again

[Cannibal]

That must me a state to state reg. There is a "crossbow" season here in Florida. I guess that would be the biggest problem with any weapon on the AT; you'd be legal is some places and a criminal in others.

[taildragger]

exactly, and its a state reg that you need to be injured to use a crossbow in most states....

I wouldn't consider doing something like this on the AT, far too many people, its makes use of a firearm (bow or powdered) too dangerous.

[shelterbuilder]

Interesting concept, there are places in the mountain west or Alaska where that could be done. Colonel Townsend Whelen did several extended wilderness forays like that. Most places where you could do something like that are bear country and I'd reccommend something like a Steyr Scout rifle in 308. Ptarmigan and snowshoe hares are common on the tundra, either is quite a meal with some rice. Have reduced loads for small game 'cause that would be most of your pot meat. Kifaru's website has load data for reduced loads for several calibers. Have some long, heavy bullets "loaded for bear". An extended "Huck Finn" float trip, dining on fish would be a little more accessible for most of us.

I find it interesting that you would mention Colonel Townsend Whelen - I haven't heard that name in years in the hiking community. I read some of his work - and the work of some of his contemporaries - back in the 70's and was profoundly impressed by the man's abilities and intellect. He was the type of man who could go into the wliderness with next to nothing, stay for 2 weeks, have a wonderful time living off the land, and come home smiling, rested, and relaxed. But I don't know if he would fit into the outdoor community today - so much has changed since then.

[scope]

On the AT, I suspect the problem with a gun is finding game to kill with it.

[take-a-knee]

Yes, even if this were legal it still wouldn't be proper on the AT, I see the AT as an extended park, it belongs to all of us. I used to hunt mourning doves here in GA (I don't anymore), that is a southern tradition. My wife has a bird feeder in our front yard that has several pairs of mourning doves that come most days before they migrate. I would never consider shooting one of them, they are "our" doves. I see the AT corridor in the same way, the game that is there should be left unmolested unless there is some really sound biology behind messing with it. The deer herds have to be culled since we don't have large predators back east anymore, other than that, leave it be.

As for crossbows, that is a pretty unweildy contraption to tote around, a light compact rifle in the wilderness would be much more useful.

I'd bet there are valleys in Alaska where no one has been in years, some place like that would be where you could live out an adventure like that. It is hard to cover a lot of ground and hunt at the same time, and not everywhere in Alaska would work because the terrain is just too rugged, and dense with vegetation. A float trip with a small raft would be the ticket.

[taildragger]

http://www.hotspringsar.com/info/forest/forest.htm

looks like hunting is allowed, at least on part of it, now to find out about the Oklahoma side...

[ChimneySpring]

Over 40 years ago a fishing/camping friend and I would go up river several miles usually for about a 2 day trip.

:: Cue theme song from Deliverance ::

[sonic]

Back to the original post here-Taildragger, if you haven't already seen this website FoOT is a great group. http://www.friendsot.org/about_trail.shtml

I have hiked the Ouachita several times and it is particularly nice this time of year. There is much more of the trail in Arkansas and some say it is better than the Oklahoma side. Just remember, there is hunting allowed most of the time in this forest, so you won't be the only one out there with guns. Check the local regs. Good luck.

[taildragger]

Dang, just looked at the cost of a non-resident Arkansas hunting license, those boys sure are fond of their wildlife (it would be cheaper to get an out of state license here in NY).

So, this trail might have to rely a lot more on fishing and foraging, O well...foods food

[Jack Tarlin]

Traildragger:

Every couple of years someone attempts to do what you have described.

They generally quit after two or three days due to either starvation or disgust over what they've been eating.

It is not a realistic thing to do on the Appalachian Trail, in addition to the fact that carrying weapons, hunting, or killing wildlife is illegal in many places on the Trail.

[taildragger]

Traildragger:

Every couple of years someone attempts to do what you have described.

They generally quit after two or three days due to either starvation or disgust over what they've been eating.

It is not a realistic thing to do on the Appalachian Trail, in addition to the fact that carrying weapons, hunting, or killing wildlife is illegal in many places on the Trail.

Jack, I understand that about the AT, and thats why I'm looking to do it in Oklahoma, that and I have a lifetime license and most of my firearms are in that state.

As far as the limping out, I've done deer camps similiar to this, if I kill something I can eat, if not, I don't eat, it makes you quite the hunter after a few days of no food.

And as for being disgusted by the food, most of the meat that I eat is from game that I've hunted or fished, and I've eaten it right in the field before, its quite good, but definitely an acquired taste.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Traildragger:

Every couple of years someone attempts to do what you have described.

They generally quit after two or three days due to either starvation or disgust over what they've been eating.

It is not a realistic thing to do on the Appalachian Trail, in addition to the fact that carrying weapons, hunting, or killing wildlife is illegal in many places on the Trail.

After seeing what some "fully equipped" thru hikers eat I'm tempted quit a 3 day weekender in disgust.

[rafe]

And if anyone's thinking of hiking near NY this weekend, be careful. Dick Cheney's going hunting in Poughkeepsie. :eek:

[Newb]

The trail passes through the Thompson Wildlife Management area in virginia (between Manassas Gap shelter and Dick's dome). SO, for about 5 miles you can hunt with a proper license. Generally, during hunting season, I hike real fast and wear lots and lots of orange. You wouldn't believe how many idiots with guns show up to kill stuff here. The woods become VERY crowded with hunters. Shots resound through the hills. The chances of actually seeing an animal in the TWMA during hunting season is practically zilch.

[shelterbuilder]

And if anyone's thinking of hiking near NY this weekend, be careful. Dick Cheney's going hunting in Poughkeepsie. :eek:

I guess that Taildragger had better stay home!:eek: Especially if he's one of Dick Cheney's friends!:eek: :eek:

[Deadeye]

As far as the concept goes, have a ball! Just don't expect to hike very far - hunting & gathering is a time-consuming business. But after all, that's the fun part.

Let us know how much weight you lose. Could be the makings of a new diet fad.

[ChimneySpring]

You wouldn't believe how many idiots with guns show up to kill stuff here. The woods become VERY crowded with hunters. Shots resound through the hills. The chances of actually seeing an animal in the TWMA during hunting season is practically zilch.

As to part 1 of your post, do you have a specific instance or situation to refer to, or are you overgeneralizing?

(Remember, if we all will, that the hobby/pastime/necessity of hunting certainly pre-dates that of hiking. Perhaps hunters believe that the woods become VERY crowded with hikers this time of year? Be sure to thank the hunters for funding the majority of just about every outdoor recreational opportunity most people will have, btw).

As to part 2, the section of the AT that travels through that WMA follows some of the least likely travel corridors for larger game based on my experience there... and I never had a problem seeing animals during any season.

[dessertrat]

On the AT, I suspect the problem with a gun is finding game to kill with it.

Unless you like eating red squirrel.

[JAK]

I have often thought of a survival hike here in New Brunswick. It wouldn't have to be successful to be fun, and instructive. I will try it some day, probably with a bow, and also snares. Again, it doesn't have to be successful. The real challenge would be seeing how long you can hold out before you dive into the food. The reduce the temptation I would make sure the emergency food was adequate, and healthy, but somewhat bland. Some lean jerky, which I would dig into first, to experience what it might be like to only eat meat and what I scavenge, like bark tea and wood sorrel and what not. If I was getting too cold to be safe I would bring out the oatmeal and have some of that. Finally, if I was in real trouble, I would bring out the honey. I wouldn't bring any other food, as I wouldn't be out long enough to worry about balanced diet or vitamin deficiencies.

In New Brunswick you can hunt with a varmints licence in summer, but most varmints are not that palatable. Varmints here include groundhog, coyote, crow and cormorant. I would opt for the groundhog. Come fall and winter you can hunt rabbits (varying hare), but also red squirrels and grey squirrels. I don't know anyone up her that has eaten squirrels. Perhaps because there are so many rabbits. I would like to try squirrel. I have eaten rabbit, wild and domestic, deer, moose, and caribou, but I have never eaten squirrel. I would also like to try possum some day. I have also heard that porcupines are very good, but I don't know if they can be legally hunted, except in a real survival situation.

[JAK]

I would also like to try eating bugs.

[Flush2wice]

I met 2 guys a few miles north of Springer in '91. One guy had a huge coil of heavy duty rope on his pack. He said once they reached Katahdin they were going to turn west to the headwaters of the Mississippi. There they were going to use the rope to fashion a log raft and float down to the Gulf of Mexico. To lighten their load they were going to eat plants along the way and not have to carry food. The other guy showed me a large encyclopedia sized hardbound book on edible plants of North America. I never saw them again after that but I'm sure they had a great adventure.

[Cannibal]

My grandpa (Greatest Man Ever) taught me how to shoot a rifle by taking me squirrel hunting. It's pretty good eating.

[ChimneySpring]

Squirrel is very tasty and easy to prepare. Skin, soak in salt water for a time, brown in a pan, put in a pot with potatoes and other veggies and simmer for a couple hours or more. Gotta be careful on a grill or open flame since there's not a lot of fat in the meat and it will turn to shoe leather if you don't cook it indirectly.

[warraghiyagey]

And if anyone's thinking of hiking near NY this weekend, be careful. Dick Cheney's going hunting in Poughkeepsie. :eek:

What's he hunting, human face?


Unless you like eating red squirrel.

Or beaver.

[rafe]

I met 2 guys a few miles north of Springer in '91. One guy had a huge coil of heavy duty rope on his pack. He said once they reached Katahdin they were going to turn west to the headwaters of the Mississippi. There they were going to use the rope to fashion a log raft and float down to the Gulf of Mexico. To lighten their load they were going to eat plants along the way and not have to carry food. The other guy showed me a large encyclopedia sized hardbound book on edible plants of North America. I never saw them again after that but I'm sure they had a great adventure.

They were carrying the rope from Springer to Katahdin, though they were only planning to use it on the Mississippi, a couple months after reaching K? Eh what???? :-?

[warraghiyagey]

They were carrying the rope from Springer to Katahdin, though they were only planning to use it on the Mississippi, a couple months after reaching K? Eh what???? :-?

Also wondering why they wouldn't have bought the rope in Maine. Or even better Minnesota at the headwaters. This stories full of more holes than a poorly rigged raft.

[shelterbuilder]

My grandpa (Greatest Man Ever) taught me how to shoot a rifle by taking me squirrel hunting. It's pretty good eating.

SQUIRREL POT PIE!!! BMECC has a squirrel pot pie dinner every April at its property in Bernville - good eating!:D

[leeki pole]

Squirrel is very tasty and easy to prepare. Skin, soak in salt water for a time, brown in a pan, put in a pot with potatoes and other veggies and simmer for a couple hours or more. Gotta be careful on a grill or open flame since there's not a lot of fat in the meat and it will turn to shoe leather if you don't cook it indirectly.
Squirrel and dumplings is a Southern delicacy. Especially after an early morning hunt, it's a tradition for lunch/brunch. Not bragging, but if you've got a squirrel dog like mine (available for hire) the folks at camp wait with big appetites for the bounty. Mmmm, makes me hungry just thinking about it!

[Deadeye]

Southern squirrels might make a nice lunch, but up north, even my cat used to eat two at a time.

[Flush2wice]

They were carrying the rope from Springer to Katahdin, though they were only planning to use it on the Mississippi, a couple months after reaching K? Eh what???? :-?
I know I post a lot of jokes here but that's a true story. Theres got to be plenty of other stories about the characters that don't get much farther than Springer.

[budforester]

One can live off the wild... better yet, have a small tribe so work can be shared. Practically, you would need a base camp (or a series of base camps) which would allow you to hoard enough nuts and tubers and dried meat to get to the next campsite. Be aware that hiking would be hard to maintain on a diet of small game because they don't carry much fat (read calories). Maybe study some of the nomadic peoples for ideas. Also, there are some legal issues to consider: multiple hunting liscenses, one weapon won't be legal for hunting all game, snares and deadfalls that can "hunt" while you sleep may not be permissible, hunting seasons vary and might not coordinate well with your hiking progress. I'm doubtful, but it sure sounds like fun.

[shelterbuilder]

One can live off the wild... better yet, have a small tribe so work can be shared. Practically, you would need a base camp (or a series of base camps) which would allow you to hoard enough nuts and tubers and dried meat to get to the next campsite. Be aware that hiking would be hard to maintain on a diet of small game because they don't carry much fat (read calories). Maybe study some of the nomadic peoples for ideas. Also, there are some legal issues to consider: multiple hunting liscenses, one weapon won't be legal for hunting all game, snares and deadfalls that can "hunt" while you sleep may not be permissible, hunting seasons vary and might not coordinate well with your hiking progress. I'm doubtful, but it sure sounds like fun.

Sounds like next season's hottest reality TV show - "Survivor: Appalachian Trail".:D

[budforester]

but also red squirrels and grey squirrels. I don't know anyone up her that has eaten squirrels. Perhaps because there are so many rabbits. I would like to try squirrel. I have eaten rabbit, wild and domestic, deer, moose, and caribou, but I have never eaten squirrel. I would also like to try possum some day. I have also heard that porcupines are very good, but I don't know if they can be legally hunted, except in a real survival situation.
Squirrels are pretty good. Take care not to get hair on them when you skin them. They have a mild gamey flavor and can be tough. I usually put them in a skillet with water and parboil until tender. Then drain them, dredge with flour. dump the water, put grease in the skillet and slowly brown the squirrels and make gravy with the drippings. This neck of the woods, everything is served with rice. 'Possum is very mild-flavored and has a texture that reminds me of pork. It is an oily kind of meat (like pork). It's edible, but not one of my favorites. Y'all don't have 'coon? It's similar to squirrel, but the chunks are bigger. Happy huntin'.

[warraghiyagey]

It occurs to me now that from where this thread started, it would eventually land with a thud on the topic of eating squirrels to stay alive.:-?

[taildragger]

I've been out hiking and having a few beers tonight, and this was all very humorous to come back and read. I'm looking at doing the Ouachita trail in Oklahoma/Arkansas, both have game aplenty, and the trail is around 200 miles. HUNTING IS ALLOWED IN THIS AREA!!! THIS IS NOT THE AT!!!! I would not hunt or forage on the AT, I've foraged some berries on the AT and the pickings can be slim enough that I wouldn't try to live off of it.


As for living off of of fauna and squirrels. As far as I know, squirrel is some good viddles, much better than chittlins. I wont to try and get most of my fats from nuts and plants, I know that game meat is VERY LEAN since I eat it all the time.

Anyways, I'm actually very impressed with some of the comments supporting or in interest of what I want to do. This is something that I really think that I will do before I leave Oklahoma for good.

As for Cheney in Poughkeepsie, he is hunting near where I had planned to bowhunt Friday and Saturday night....I'm not too happy about this.....:mad:

[EWS]

My childhood best friend and I did what you're describing a couple of times every summer when were in jr. high and high school. If you grew up in the country it isn't hard, but if you didn’t you'll be back home very quickly. The worst part for us was we knew we were going to get our asses beat once we got back home, since our two day camping trip turned in to a week or two, and there weren't cell phones to check in with.

Fish and you will usually get a lot more meat for a lot less work, and not have to deal with heavy weapons and ammo. We only took our shotguns on the first trip and they stayed home after that. Get a small seine net, about 10’ x 3’, and you can get all bait you’ll ever need and sometimes a meal just for getting your feet wet. Spinning reels were always much more reliable than others; you don’t need a pole that will break down into eight pieces, two or three is fine; and you don’t need a heavy weight set up, 8-10lb test is fine. Depending on what time fo the year you go, will obviously determine what fruit and vegetables are available. We managed to get away with just drinking spring or clear creek water without treating it. All of our equipment may have cost $100 total and that included a nice knife. It all seemed so much simpler in those days.

[warraghiyagey]

As for Cheney in Poughkeepsie, he is hunting near where I had planned to bowhunt Friday and Saturday night....I'm not too happy about this.....:mad:

Sorry, I just had a very funny cartoon image of Chaney hopping around trying to pull an arrow out of his face.:D

[bigben]

It's a "romantic" idea, but in 21st century America it's just not truly feasible. I read a lot of books about 18th century American History and am fascinated by folks like Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton, "longhunters" as they were called, who left home with very little to go hunting for 4-6 months and came home with ungodly amounts of furs and meat. All the while trying not to get scalped by Native Americans. I find myself, as cheesy as it sounds, daydreaming about roaming around and living off the land in 1770 Kentucky. But that was then, this is now. Pretty much EVERYTHING has changed, from the amount of game, to the forests, the addition of 300 million people and the resulting infrastructure and civilization, government(s), land ownership, etc ad nauseum. And the relative lack of "real" danger compared to what existed in the 18th century.

I know you didn't ask for a history lesson and I'm not trying to sound preachy, but outside of going to Alaska (with the knowledge, confidence and experience to do so), a survival hike is bound to be either a let down or a forced exercise in extreme poverty. I mean, after 20 miles of eating a few squirrels and some leaves, are you going to turn down the free cheeseburgers and Cokes being handed to you by some Boy Scout troop at a road crossing? Hell no. But even if you did, the fact that those cheeseburgers are available to you pretty much negates the true meaning of the word "survival."

I'm WAY into survival-type stuff. I've flirted with doing what you're considering. As an Eagle Scout in a gung-ho troop as a teenager, we DID do this kind of stuff. We had "survival campouts" where other than the clothes on our backs, we took a water bottle, a poncho and a knife for 2 nights in the woods. I remember going a whole weekend eating nothing but 2 frogs I gigged, a small catfish, some minnows and crawdads and dandilion leaves. But everytime I think about it, what I typed above pretty much pulls the rug out from under my boots. Just my 2 cents.

Bigben

[Rift Zone]

That would be the M6 Scout survival rifle. It was made again for a few years in the early 2000's. They also made a pistol version in .22/.45 Long Colt.

The most recent manufacturer was Springfield (European). My M6 was a .22 hornet. It is now a .22 K hornet over a .410

I have it with me on my kayak trip (from montana to key west) for precaution but i wont hike with it.

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, despite what several folks have said, assuming it's the right time of year and that one has appropriate licenses and is obeying current and local laws, it is in fact possible to legally hunt on about half the A.T. The belief that the Trail is closed to hunters on A.T. lands is not correct. Hunting is indeed permitted in National Forests, State Game lands, and all sorts of other places, too.

[rickb]

Very True.

One challenge would be timing your hike to coincide with the open seasons.

I think a late SOBO might have the best chance. You could start off with squirells, then get a big deer to hold you over until Spring turkey season. You would probaly want to bounce the meat ahead, which could be a hassel since you can't carry in a PO and some of the southern hostels will be closed when you pass through. Or your could rely on eating crow and varmit.

YMMV.

[taildragger]

It's a "romantic" idea, but in 21st century America it's just not truly feasible. I read a lot of books about 18th century American History and am fascinated by folks like Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton, "longhunters" as they were called, who left home with very little to go hunting for 4-6 months and came home with ungodly amounts of furs and meat. All the while trying not to get scalped by Native Americans. I find myself, as cheesy as it sounds, daydreaming about roaming around and living off the land in 1770 Kentucky. But that was then, this is now. Pretty much EVERYTHING has changed, from the amount of game, to the forests, the addition of 300 million people and the resulting infrastructure and civilization, government(s), land ownership, etc ad nauseum. And the relative lack of "real" danger compared to what existed in the 18th century.

I know you didn't ask for a history lesson and I'm not trying to sound preachy, but outside of going to Alaska (with the knowledge, confidence and experience to do so), a survival hike is bound to be either a let down or a forced exercise in extreme poverty. I mean, after 20 miles of eating a few squirrels and some leaves, are you going to turn down the free cheeseburgers and Cokes being handed to you by some Boy Scout troop at a road crossing? Hell no. But even if you did, the fact that those cheeseburgers are available to you pretty much negates the true meaning of the word "survival."

I'm WAY into survival-type stuff. I've flirted with doing what you're considering. As an Eagle Scout in a gung-ho troop as a teenager, we DID do this kind of stuff. We had "survival campouts" where other than the clothes on our backs, we took a water bottle, a poncho and a knife for 2 nights in the woods. I remember going a whole weekend eating nothing but 2 frogs I gigged, a small catfish, some minnows and crawdads and dandilion leaves. But everytime I think about it, what I typed above pretty much pulls the rug out from under my boots. Just my 2 cents.

Bigben

Bigben, this reminded me of a conversation I had with a hike at the RPH shelter around July 22nd, it came up over the fact that I had a handmade Bowie, that was made the proper way (with the 'false edge').

As far as it really being "survival" it won't be, not this time at least. I haven't done something like this will hiking, so thats whats going to make it interesting to me. I have no real doubt that I can gut through a trip like this, I've hunted out of a camp and only allowed myself to eat when I killed, with bad weather I've gotten hungry, but I've been fine.

And as for finding Scouts on the trail with burgers? What kinda scout hikes with burgers? From my understanding, you're pretty much alone when you're on this trail to begin with, you MIGHT see some people if you thru-hike it, but not many.

But oh well, this trip will be fun, maybe its time that I learn how to make a 'primitive' bow as well, that should be light enough to use on the trail, and I'm good enough with a bow that I can get me some meat with it, maybe even some nuts...

[Marta]

Very True.

One challenge would be timing your hike to coincide with the open seasons.

I think a late SOBO might have the best chance. You could start off with squirells, then get a big deer to hold you over until Spring turkey season. You would probaly want to bounce the meat ahead, which could be a hassel since you can't carry in a PO and some of the southern hostels will be closed when you pass through. Or your could rely on eating crow and varmit.

YMMV.

Definitely go SOBO. (Why does my advice always include this?:rolleyes: ) I was hiking through a number of hunting seasons, including the main firearms deer season in Virginia. A hunter got a deer at dawn just below Saunders Shelter while I was there. (His hunting partner had a long conversation with Snapshot about the AT.) Good eating, but not for ultralighters.:D

[bigben]

And as for finding Scouts on the trail with burgers? What kinda scout hikes with burgers?

What I was referring to, and I randomly picked Boy Scouts and cheeseburgers as an example, is the many instances of "trail magic" one encounters during a thru-hike. Organizations, AT supporters, random people, etc. often can be found at certain "busy" times of the year on the AT preparing and handing out freebies in the form of soft drinks, food, beers, baked goods, etc. for thru-hikers. I'm sure you could time your hike to avoid such situations(like starting NOBO in June).

From my understanding, you're pretty much alone when you're on this trail to begin with, you MIGHT see some people if you thru-hike it, but not many.

It'll be some years before I can thru-hike the AT. But I do a week or so every year in May going NOBO from where I left off the prior year. I'll still be in NC this year but even though the "rush" of thru-hikers is usually through this area by sometime in April, the trail is anything but secluded IMO. There has not been a single day in the past 2 years where we didn't at least see 10 others on the trail. SOBO would be different. FWIW, and I'm NOT against your plans at all, if I was going to do what you are considering, it wouldn't be on the AT. I hunt and fish too. I plan on taking 2 deer this season. But, regardless of what anyone tells you, you come walking out of the woods with a rifle and homemade longbow strapped you your pack next to your Bowie knife on the AT, people are going to think you're a psycho. I think that's BS as I know you do, but it's reality. Good luck.

Bigben

[taildragger]

Since there seems to be some confusion here....

The trail that I intended to hike was the Ouachita Trail, I've seen it publicized once
http://www.backpacker.com/article/1960

I don't think that I would ever try this on the AT due to the times that we live in, but the Ouachita is in an area of the country where walking out of the woods with a gun will usually get the response of "That de'r is a nice rifle you gaht der, kill anee ah dem deer while you wahr out?"

[mudhead]

Southern squirrels might make a nice lunch, but up north, even my cat used to eat two at a time.

Easier to catch frogs. Fat yarn on a hook.

Them days is done. I'll take PB, thanks.

[The Cheat]

Actually, despite what several folks have said, assuming it's the right time of year and that one has appropriate licenses and is obeying current and local laws, it is in fact possible to legally hunt on about half the A.T. The belief that the Trail is closed to hunters on A.T. lands is not correct. Hunting is indeed permitted in National Forests, State Game lands, and all sorts of other places, too.

Right you are:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795531/k.AE1B/Hunting_and_the_AT.htm

Type of A.T. LandHuntingNo HuntingNational forest lands and recreation areas1,000+ miles—State forest and gameland units250+ miles—National and state park lands—900 milesTotal approximate mileage1,250+ miles900 miles

[warraghiyagey]

Sorry, I just had a very funny cartoon image of Chaney hopping around trying to pull an arrow out of his face.:D

Surprise, surprise, Cheney's choice of hunting grounds was a good ol boys club complete with confederate flag.

[taildragger]

Surprise, surprise, Cheney's choice of hunting grounds was a good ol boys club complete with confederate flag.

Watch were you say that, some of us still don't recognize that yank flag

[Rift Zone]

Watch were you say that, some of us still don't recognize that yank flagHumans are a curious sort in that way... Teach a generation that rainbows are devil spawn and they will remain evil for eternity.

[warraghiyagey]

Watch were you say that, some of us still don't recognize that yank flag

Do you recognize the Red Sox Nation Flag??:p


Humans are a curious sort in that way... Teach a generation that rainbows are devil spawn and they will remain evil for eternity.

Or take a historical peace symbol and make it the badge of a holocaust and it remains that forever - see swastika.

[taildragger]

Do you recognize the Red Sox Nation Flag??:p

I don't recognize baseball as a real sport, if I can't watch it and stay interested in the game WITHOUT BEER then I don't like it.

[The Solemates]

Read "The Last American Man." Eustace Conway, Jr., did a hunter-gatherer hike of the AT. Rumor has it that he gathered some food from other hikers from time to time, but he also foraged for wild food.

never heard of this book before, strangely. this is the type of genre i read all the time. i immediately looked in up and ordered it. thanks for the reference!

[The Solemates]

Dang, just looked at the cost of a non-resident Arkansas hunting license, those boys sure are fond of their wildlife (it would be cheaper to get an out of state license here in NY).

So, this trail might have to rely a lot more on fishing and foraging, O well...foods food

good luck with fishin...there aint much water on the Ouachita

[The Solemates]

aint much foraging either. the more I read from your posts, the more i want to ask "you ever spent time in arkansas backcountry"?

[Rift Zone]

Foraging means you are stepping down a few notches on the food chain. I like my diet better up here.

[shelterbuilder]

Squirrels are pretty good. Take care not to get hair on them when you skin them. They have a mild gamey flavor and can be tough. I usually put them in a skillet with water and parboil until tender. Then drain them, dredge with flour. dump the water, put grease in the skillet and slowly brown the squirrels and make gravy with the drippings. This neck of the woods, everything is served with rice. 'Possum is very mild-flavored and has a texture that reminds me of pork. It is an oily kind of meat (like pork). It's edible, but not one of my favorites. Y'all don't have 'coon? It's similar to squirrel, but the chunks are bigger. Happy huntin'.

Well, anybody who wants to try the survival hike thing, come on over to Pa. - we got us a bumper crop o' squirrels this year - all fat and sassy!:banana :D

[taildragger]

aint much foraging either. the more I read from your posts, the more i want to ask "you ever spent time in arkansas backcountry"?

Not really, this is just being kicked around, its not like I'm just gonna jump into it tomorrow. I've spent some time in the backwoods of the Oklahoma side of foothills of the Ozarks, but most of my time was spent in the scrub oaks of Oklahoma. I could always find food there where the plains ran into the bottoms, just gotta look for it.

[taildragger]

I have often thought of a survival hike here in New Brunswick. It wouldn't have to be successful to be fun, and instructive. I will try it some day, probably with a bow, and also snares. Again, it doesn't have to be successful. The real challenge would be seeing how long you can hold out before you dive into the food. The reduce the temptation I would make sure the emergency food was adequate, and healthy, but somewhat bland. Some lean jerky, which I would dig into first, to experience what it might be like to only eat meat and what I scavenge, like bark tea and wood sorrel and what not. If I was getting too cold to be safe I would bring out the oatmeal and have some of that. Finally, if I was in real trouble, I would bring out the honey. I wouldn't bring any other food, as I wouldn't be out long enough to worry about balanced diet or vitamin deficiencies.

In New Brunswick you can hunt with a varmints licence in summer, but most varmints are not that palatable. Varmints here include groundhog, coyote, crow and cormorant. I would opt for the groundhog. Come fall and winter you can hunt rabbits (varying hare), but also red squirrels and grey squirrels. I don't know anyone up her that has eaten squirrels. Perhaps because there are so many rabbits. I would like to try squirrel. I have eaten rabbit, wild and domestic, deer, moose, and caribou, but I have never eaten squirrel. I would also like to try possum some day. I have also heard that porcupines are very good, but I don't know if they can be legally hunted, except in a real survival situation.


Jak, I just re-read your post. What type of bow would you be using, compound, long, recurve. I'd suggest a recurve, doesn't shoot to fast (i.e. can use homemade wooden arrows), its not too long and they are relatively light. Plus, shooting a recurve really forces you to know the bow, most traditional archers that I know are very good at hitting smaller moving targets under 30 yds, and its harder to do that with a compound (mainly the difference in shooting by feel vs shooting with sights like most do on a compound).

As for the squirrel, I don't know anyone who has tried them that didn't like them, just to put this in perspective, all these guys came from families that fed themselves with rabbit, squirrel, deer, and flatheads.

And as far as trapping, do you regularly trap already? I'm not sure how effective setting up a snare line would be without previous trapping knowledge. Personally, the only things that I know how to trap are coyotes, coons, beavers, and bobcats, not things that are very high on my 'want for dinner' list.

Best of luck to ya on this, I'd like to hear a TR from you if you get it done before I make my attempt.

[minnesotasmith]

Don't know if they are still around or where you'd find them, but the USAF for a few years during the 80s issued a rifle/shotgun combo as part of an emergency kit for downed pilots. It was an over/under set-up with a .410 (under) and .22 (over). I've seen two of them thru the years, but I've never seen one for sale.

Wasn't the shotgun barrel length too short to be legal for civilians (or mil offduty) to possess?

[Rift Zone]

Wasn't the shotgun barrel length too short to be legal for civilians (or mil offduty) to possess?

the barrels on mine are 18 inches long... Right on the line.

[taildragger]

the barrels on mine are 18 inches long... Right on the line.

Rift, were'd you pick one of those up, gun show? This sounds like it would be a nice little gun to have, and it would make a great gun to leave in the ranch truck.

[budforester]

Rift, were'd you pick one of those up, gun show? This sounds like it would be a nice little gun to have, and it would make a great gun to leave in the ranch truck.
Hey guys, I googled up this link (http://www.shotgunworks.com/item.aspx?PID=33288). I was amazed that Remington is marketing one of those things, now. Mine is a Stevens, I think, about 60 years old.

[Rift Zone]

I got it from a gunshop in Redding, CA. There were 3 of them there when I got it... Two were .22 long rifle and the one i got was .22 hornet (now K-hornet).

[JAK]

Jak, I just re-read your post. What type of bow would you be using, compound, long, recurve. I'd suggest a recurve, doesn't shoot to fast (i.e. can use homemade wooden arrows), its not too long and they are relatively light. Plus, shooting a recurve really forces you to know the bow, most traditional archers that I know are very good at hitting smaller moving targets under 30 yds, and its harder to do that with a compound (mainly the difference in shooting by feel vs shooting with sights like most do on a compound).

As for the squirrel, I don't know anyone who has tried them that didn't like them, just to put this in perspective, all these guys came from families that fed themselves with rabbit, squirrel, deer, and flatheads.

And as far as trapping, do you regularly trap already? I'm not sure how effective setting up a snare line would be without previous trapping knowledge. Personally, the only things that I know how to trap are coyotes, coons, beavers, and bobcats, not things that are very high on my 'want for dinner' list.

Best of luck to ya on this, I'd like to hear a TR from you if you get it done before I make my attempt.Sorry, just read your post.

I have little to no experience with bow hunting or archery but lots of interest. I want to start with a simple primitive bow, non-recurve, and eventually build one. Basically a traditional short bow, with some local wood rather than something like Osage Orange or Yew. It will not be very strong, but good enough to miss squirrels. Once I start hitting them and piss them off or wound them instead of killing them I will go to a stronger bow, perhaps a recurve so it doesn't need to be too long. For rabbits my intention is to first learn to snare them. I have never snared, or trapped, but am much interested. If I ever develop enough skill to hit a rabbit with a bow, well by then I will likely know what bow I need, and may well go to a recurve or some form of reinforced short bow. The gophers around here will definitely be out of my league for awhile, as I understand they are incredibly hard to kill. I am also interesting in learning to snare certain birds, like seagulls, as a survival skill. My main interest is anything that gets me out in the woods, and in ways that force me to learn more about the woods including its critters.

Cheers

[taildragger]

Jak, something like a 40lbs recurve bow could be ideal, maybe even 50lbs. If you start going lower on the poundage you lose range, speed, and IMHO accuracy. My current bow is a 70lbs compound and I can drill nails at 40 yards with it (I love this thing). A 40lbs bow is usually the minimum requirement for deer hunting in most places as well...

And for shooting, skip the sights for your style. Just shoot everyday that you can. Take something like an 8" pie pan into your backyard, throw it, leave it at unmarked distances, and learn to shoot in many variations of positions with a smooth draw. This will allow you to react fast, and to immediately recognize yardage without thinking. I do something similiar to this with my bows, and because of it I was able to bag a nice little doe last night that I would not have been able to shoot, kneeling, and going across my body, and without anything to guess the size of the deer or yardage without taking my sights off of the deer.

Oh, and use leather tabs, your fingers will thank you if your shooting for pro-longed times

Be warned, archery is very very addictive. I'm missing out on prime hiking right now because I can't stop myself from hunting. I'm out a higher percentage of the days during the 3 month bow season when compared to the 2 week long rifle season.