View Full Version : Need help with cold weather gear
I'm looking for a good insulation layer or system to use while IN camp. I know that usually no matter how cold it gets, you are not supposed to hike in a fleece/down/ ect...but in camp just sitting around I get really cold.
Since I'm going to the smokies in late november and the average low temp is 26 up on the peaks, I guess I'm looking clothing in the 30 to 40 degree range.
Right now I have wool socks, some long johns, but in terms of tops or insulating layers I don't know what to get.
Any advice, what do you guys bring, especially the ones that get really cold easily?
MTS
this is what i plan on doing if i really need it on top of my three layers for warmth
http://www.featheredfriends.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productId=84&CatId=1&ProductName=Winter%20Wren
multi-functional gear saves on weight..or does it:-?
SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 14:42
That is so subjective a thing to give reccomendations about - everyone handels the cold different.
My general reccomendation is think in layers. Have about three levels plus rain gear:
Walking level - t-shirt, shorts, socks, hat. Even in November you can sweat while walking.
Cool camp level: long sleeve shirt and pants with a warm hat, dry socks, and some gloves.
Cold camp level: Insulated jacket and pants, mittens and toasty warm camp socks - maybe a scarf or neck gaiter.
Rain jacket and pants.
Also - you bag is your last refuge.
shelterbuilder
10-25-2007, 14:46
I'm looking for a good insulation layer or system to use while IN camp. I know that usually no matter how cold it gets, you are not supposed to hike in a fleece/down/ ect...but in camp just sitting around I get really cold.
Since I'm going to the smokies in late november and the average low temp is 26 up on the peaks, I guess I'm looking clothing in the 30 to 40 degree range.
Right now I have wool socks, some long johns, but in terms of tops or insulating layers I don't know what to get.
Any advice, what do you guys bring, especially the ones that get really cold easily?
MTS
I've been cold-weather camping since college (70's) - a lot has changed since then. Back then, the best advice was to get a really good sleeping bag, make camp, eat in a hurry, and climb into the bag for the night! But here's what I do now.
I start with a base layer of polypro (the lightest weight I can find). Sock liners, too. Wool socks. Wool pants (God bless the military; I've always been able to find really tight-weave surplus wool pants that are warm and cut the wind well). A wool shirt, long-sleeved, button-front. (Have you noticed that I like wool?) A down vest. A nylon shell for over the vest. A wool balaclava (or at least a watch cap). Gloves or mittens as you prefer (I like fingerless WOOL gloves inside of an oversized mitten or an overmitt). And if it's really windy in camp, put on your waterproof, breathable raingear - it'll cut the wind, but allow sweat to pass through.
And if the temperature really drops, make camp, eat in a hurry, and climb into the bag for the night!:D
taildragger
10-25-2007, 14:50
Pardon the ignorance, but why no fleece?
It seems like a good fleece wouldn't be a bad idea for a camp layer, I've done this before. Although than packability whats the fleece deal?
SGT Rock
10-25-2007, 14:53
Fleece is over rated. I prefer a base layer of polypro mid weights and lofting insulation like with a Patagonia Pullover. It packs smaller and gives you more insulation per ounce than fleece.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-25-2007, 14:58
Fleece is heavy and not as compressible as other options for the amount of warmth it provides.
You might want to look at adding a JRB No-Sniveller (http://216.83.168.206/index_files/Products%20List_files/No%20Snivelling%20Quilt.htm) to your current sleep system for cold weather - it adds warmth to your bag when used as an over-quilt and can be worn around camp for warmth - especially nice in the morning to slip into an already warm down poncho.
climbabout
10-26-2007, 08:18
I think for in camp warmth you can't beat a good "puffball" or similar jacket - primaloft type insulation packs great and still works reasonably well when wet.
Tim
A very nice clothing system for the conditions you are describing, which could include wind and rain, might be as follows:
Top:
8oz merino wool sweater as a skin layer, and primary hiking layer
10oz 100wt fleece 1/4zip as an extra layer over the wool when needed
6oz cheap light breathable nylon anorak as wind/drizzle layer when needed
Rain Poncho for Heavy Cold Rain
Bottom:
- Hiking Shorts
- Flannel Boxers, for when not wearing one of the following
plus pack any 2 of the following 3, or keep the 3rd as a sleep layer:
- 4oz polypro skin layer
- 6oz wool long underwear
- 8oz 100wt Fleece bottoms
then:
- 6-8oz or lighter cheap light breathable nylon pants for wind/drizzle.
(I find it hard to find really cheap and light nylon pants. Even the stuff in ruinning stores seems to heavy compared to years ago. I don't have access to ultralight pants where I shop. I don't mind my current 8oz cheap nylon wind pants however, because they work as hiking pants for prickly sections.)
I agree that fleece is somewhat heavy and not all that compressible. I include it only because I only like to carry as much wool as I can keep on, since wool can get heavy and frozen if you take it off. Good fleece that can't absorb water can be taken off and on and left hanging from a branch overnight without so much fuss. I generally don't go higher than 100wt fleece though, except somtimes 200wt fleece pants in snow.
Considering you need some other layers regardless, it seems to me that Down doesn't really start to pay off weight wise until you get into colder and dryer winter conditions, below 20F. Still it is best to go by climate extremes for a given month rather than weather predictions. If the WORST you might get is 20degF, you are probably better off simply making sure that all your layers can be worn together. If the WORST you might get is 0degF or colder, and windy, then I think that is when you migh start thinking about a down jacket, and heavier fleece pants, or even down pants. Personally I go with a 3 pound wool sweater in winter, and 200wt fleece pants which are great in snow along with wool long underwear. However, I have been thinking about a system for winter where I stick with a lighter wool and fleece layers, but add a light down long overcoat. (which I would have to build myself or perhaps buy from a very large Chinese lady, as they seem to wear them). In addition to wearing it as an overcoat in camp and on long slow trudges in extreme wind and cold, it might be used as an overquilt to save me from buying a winter sleeping bag or wearing all my layers to bed when it turns real nasty. Most winter camping hear it only gets down to +20degF, though wet, but if you are out a week in January you should be prepared for a few nights of -30degF, as it does happen.
Looks like your hike is taking place in what I like to call shoulder season conditions. Early Spring/late fall Not quite winter, but not quite traditional three seson backpacking.
When I backpack in this edge season, I tend to take a few items added to my gear kit. Anything with an asterik are items I do not take late spring - early fall.
My gear:
ON ME
Long sleeve poly top
Long underwear poly bottom
Running shorts
Bandana
Sun Hat
Wool liner gloves
IN PACK
Montbell UL Windshirt (think Marmot Driclime windshirt)
SilNylon Mittens
Balaclava
Montbell UL Rainpants
Coated Nylon Rain Jacet *** (I usually take Wisp in 3 season backpacking)
Montbell Thermwarp ***
Wool mittens ***
Fleece Hat*** (this extra hat of 1 oz gives me A LOT of extra warmth. Hats rock!)
Military Liner Pants*** (I only take this if I suspect I'll be having "social time" in camp. Cheap, warm and light)
So, basically, I take a somewhat beefier rain jacket, an extra layer of insulation, some mittens to provide some extra warmth and an extra hat.
A little more than a 2 lb wt penalty I am guessing over my normal gear. Or an extra day of food.
This kit serves we well from Mid october to mid November or so in Colorado. The conditions sounds about the same in the Smokies..if probably wetter than Colorado.
Blissful
10-26-2007, 13:39
I loved my down jacket in camp (with a silk layer and polypro layer underneath. I get cold too and used it in March and April). I had a silk layer and polartec tights for legs.
And of course, hat and gloves.
Thanks guys. I think that cleared up some things. I guess I'm concerned about being warm in these temps b/c last time I was in the smokies in november, we ended up going "trying' to go to sleep around 8pm b/c it was so cold. Plus my Quest 20degree sleeping bag wasn't the greatest bag in the world although I don't know how cold it got. Seems like the idea is to get in the bag if it's that cold, which is why I'm getting a better bag.
I think I'm also going to get a down/synthetic jacket. I'm skinny and I freeze so that should help.
Thanks again,
MTS
Tipi Walter
10-26-2007, 20:53
COLD WEATHER CLOTHING LEVELS
Defcon Level One: T-shirt and shorts
Defcon Two: Shorts, silk turtleneck and t-shirt over the turtleneck
Defcon Three: Shorts and thermal tops or t-shirt with rain jacket(it's alright to sweat into a t-shirt under a rain jacket)
Defcon Four: Thermal tops with hat and gloves and rain pants
Defcon Five: Thermal bottoms, pants, thermal tops/fleece(wool) shirt and down jacket
Defcon Six: Everything and the rain jacket(level 5 includes the hats and gloves)
Defcon Seven: Stay in the sleeping bag
Defcon Eight: In the sleeping bag with hot water bottles
Defcon Nine: Rescue helicopter or fleeing on foot
Defcon Ten: Death by frostbite or hypothermia
The first four are for hiking as a full down jacket cannot be worn when backpacking, it's just too hot. Sitting around a cold basecamp requires goose down around the chest and a series of hats in a layering system. I use a balaclava under a thick watch-cap.
Like socks, it's important to have two pairs of gloves, one thin and one heavy. I always try to keep one pair DRY as gloves are an essential item in winter camping.
Blissful
10-26-2007, 21:22
. Plus my Quest 20degree sleeping bag wasn't the greatest bag in the world although I don't know how cold it got. Seems like the idea is to get in the bag if it's that cold, which is why I'm getting a better bag.
MTS
Cheaper bags don't have accurate ratings. You get what you pay for. I like Marmot for their quality - have three of their bags and liked them very much (I went with a 15 degree for the start of my hike). My son also liked the North Face Cat's Meow very much. I prefer synthetic for the AT but others have gone with down and made out good. Whatever you bring, I would also suggest bringing a silk sleeping bag liner which can add warmth to the bag. Also humidity levels can make it feel a lot colder than it really is. Make sure too you are bringing the right foods to eat which can also keep you warmer at night (more fat content will keep you better rather than carbs which you should eat during the hike).
couple questions:
1. When you talk about fleece pants, do you mean that you get pants that are just fleece and then you can wear rain pants/windblocker over them if need be, or do you mean that you get pants lined with fleece that also protect you from the wind/ect. I have only seen just fleece pants so I assume thats what you mean.
2. Have any suggestions on products like gloves, hats ect?
hopefulhiker
10-26-2007, 21:39
Another option is those wearable sleeping bags... You can wear them and still move around..
fleece caps that go all the way over the face, windstopper gloves or wool mittens with a flap for the fingers are good too..
copythat
10-26-2007, 23:13
don't forget the 12" tapered piece of closed-cell foam to shove under your feet in the bag. (you can use it as a camp seat, too. and as a cutting board, if your knife is realllly dull!)
Wise Old Owl
10-27-2007, 03:33
PolyPro is the way to go. If you get up in the middle of the night wearing Polypro, Bergelene or T2 you don't get cold as fast. Jumpin into the bag doesnt chill you as fast. You skin stays dry & warm. The fabric should be thin and very fuzzy at least on one side. NO Cotton! Here are some links.
http://www.vtarmynavy.com/ecws-polypro-underwear.htm (http://www.vtarmynavy.com/ecws-polypro-underwear.htm)
http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590989&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302887178&bmUID=1193469454795 (http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590989&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302887178&bmUID=1193469454795)
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39298997&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1 (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39298997&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1)
whitefoot_hp
10-27-2007, 12:06
i have a terramar interlock silk top and bottom, but have not used it yet.
This winter, i plan to use it, a military jacket liner (light and warm for 13 bucks shipped look on ebay and save a 70-100 bucks over name brand synthetic layers)
a longsleeve polyester starter brand work out shirt (for hiking in and a layer in camp) possibly a cotton thermal (becuase cotton is cool enough to hike in)
an eddie bauer down vest for extra insulation and a boost to my 20 degree bag.
dry ducks outer shell, like 6 ounces and 14 bucks with the pants.