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Hi
Im A Backpacker That Would Like To Go Lite,what Is The The Best Way To Do This And How Lite Should My Back Weight To Go 1 Week Ive Done The Finished The At In Pa. ,nj And Half Of Ny So I Want To Change The Way I Backpack I Want To Get It Down To 20 Lbs Total,h2o Included
Wolf
Wolf. You say you want a 20 lb pack weight with water. Does this include food? That is a big difference. I would consider 20 lbs WITH food and water ultralight but if it doesnt include food you could add another 10 lbs on. You say you want to pack for a week. Supposing you dont resupply , 7 days of food would be roughly 14 pounds raising pack weight to 34 lbs.
So if you had 14 lbs of food your pack weight with water would be 6 pounds which is impossible. See my point? Sorry if this seems dumb.
The best way to go lite is to buy light stuff. Depends what season you are in. One way is to get a warm sleeping bag that is light (western mountaineer, feathered friends etc,). They make bags weighing between 1 and 2 lbs that are rated as low as 15/20 degrees. Having a warm bag can definately decrease the weight of clothes you need IMO. Use gatorade bottles instead of Nalgenes.
An alcohol soda can stove is a must for going lite weight. Look into hammocks and tarps, a tent will probably be too heavy. Z-rest is the lightest pad. Some lightweight backpacks include the ULA P2, granite gear virga and vapor trail and ozone. Mountain smith ghost is light too. Go lite packs are very light but not well made IMO. All these packs weight around 2 lbs and genrerally hold up to 30 lbs. A titanium single pot and lexan spoon is lightest for cooking. Bandannas double and triple as things, no need for a pack towel. Use pages instead of the whole guidebooks. I always take maps. You shouldnt really need a book or music for a week trip but its up to you. A small couple drops of hand sanitizer should do you good. Don't need a trowel, time it for privies or use a boot heel. look into a light headlamp like the petzl tikka or zipka or black diamond ion.
Yes, going light does involve a good amount of money unfortunately. If you have any gear specific questions please don't hold back. I went reasonably light on my hike and had a lot of experience with many of the above gear. If not someone else here will be able to help I guarantee.
sorry I forgot water purification. Aquamira will save you about a pound compared to a filter. 2 little bottles will last you many week trips.
This could be a hot topic because all light hikers seem to know the magic way. So I will put in my 2 cents.
The thought process I follow is to think about comfort. How will I be more comfortable? Carring a light pack all day or having everything one could imagine at camp. To cut weight I think about comfort and ounces.
ie. Will I enjoy a cool night sleeping in a 40 degree bag in 30 degree weather to save 10oz and have a light load or is the good night sleep better.
The way I cut weight is to pick up every item in my bag and say "do I need this" or "how can I make this lighter". This sometimes means buying the best and lightest or cutting the handle off the tooth brush or just doing without.
Keep in mind it is often about your comfort level and ounces.
Remember, even the smallest ounces added turn to pounds and puonds are what we want to cut.
I use this method anytime I go on a hike more than 2-3 days and my pack keeps getting lighter. I now carry about 15 pounds dry (no food/water)
Footslogger
11-22-2003, 00:28
I would say that it all depends on what you're willing to give up or do without. Personally I believe that there is a point at which a hiker can cut things a tad too close to the bone in the interest of "going lite".
I'm not much for advice but when asked this question directly my answer is that you should take as little as possible without compromising basic comfort and safety.
I started this year at Springer with around 43 pounds on my back. When I got to Katahdin my pack (with 4 days of food and 2 liters of water) weighed around 26 pounds. To be totally honest, I don't know that I could have gotten it down any lower and still had what I needed to enjoy my hike.
Just my .02
Why worry about how much the pack weighs with water? Simply cut down your base pack weight (weight without consumables like food, water, and fuel) as low as possible. You can't always control how much food or water you'll be carrying, so it's really not something you can do a lot about. Yes, you can try to carry high-energy foods and making more miles can also reduce your consumables weight by getting to resupplies sooner, but water is water. There are hiking stragegies to minimize how much water you carry at any one time, but you can't worry about water weight so much that you end up going dehydrated in a vain attempt to save weight. Concentrate on your base pack weight and carry whatever food and water you need to stay hydrated and energetic. You can obtain a 20lb pack including food and water on many trips, but you should never sacrifice food and water just to maintain some weight goal.
I don't think you need to spend lots of money to go light. There are many areas where lightweight gear costs less than traditional gear (stoves, for example). However, you usually do have to splurge on a good sleeping bag. Most lightweight backpackers choose down for it's warmth/weight ratio, but high-loft down costs quite a bit, so it is an expensive investment. On the other hand, I think that lightweight backpacking usually goes hand-in-hand with choosing function over fashion. Instead of buying expensive gear that is heavily marketed, many lightweighters choose homemade or inexpensive gear that better suits their needs.
I would consider Ray Jardine's "Beyond Backpacking" book to be a good source of ultralight ideas, but please skip the food chapter and don't think of his way of doing things as the only way.
When cutting pack weight,I think it is best to make it a process, rather than trying to do it all at once. Do a few small things first, get used to them. Then do some more. Here are three fairly painless and cheap ways to cut weight.
1) Switch to an alcohol stove. A homemade stove and potstand will weigh in around 3 oz. Add a 20 oz. plastic soda bottle for carrying fuel and you've got a cooking setup for less than 5 oz. Alternatively, you could carry a whisperlite with metal fuel bottle and stove repair kit and come in around 20 oz. That is almost a pound in weight savings and the alcohol stove is very convenient. Some may prefer the cannister type stoves, but I think that alcohol stoves are easier to deal with.
2) Switch to LED lights. A Photon Microlight II weighs 0.25 oz. I carry two: A yellow for in camp and a turquoise (2 battery) for night hiking (I never do this, anyways). So, my total light weight (hehheh) is 0.5 oz. A traditional bulbed lamp will weigh in around 12 oz or more (with batteries).
3) Change the little stuff. Change your Nalgene bottles to Gatorade bottles (4 oz. versus
about 1.3 oz.) Change your regular stuff sacks to silnylon ones. Change your packcover to one made out of silnylon. When I made all these changes, I saved about another pound of weight.
As pointed out in previous posts, the best way to cut weight is to bring less stuff. You may find that camp sandles really are not all that necessary. Nor is a second pair of underwear. Don't forget that a great weigh to cut weight is to get in shape before setting out on your hike. Losing 10 lbs from around the gut (if you have it to begin with) is the same (from an energy expenditure point of view, I suppose) as losing 10 lbs from your pack (except that it rides comfortably in your gut).
When you are ready to move on, switch from a tent to a tarp. The lightest, reasonable tents that I know of weigh in the 3-4 lb range. You can get tarps weighing in as little as 7.5 oz. (Bozeman MountainWorks, DancingLight). Buy a good down sleeping bag (WM Highlight is about 17 oz, costs $220). The absolute LAST thing you want to switch out is your pack. Ultralight rucksacks work really well with small loads. They don't work so well with big ones. Keep your regular pack for a while, at least until you've gotten rid of a tent. I really like the ULA Zenith, but it is being discontinued in favor of a new pack (the Fusion), which is uber cool, but weighs almost twice as much.
RagingHampster
11-24-2003, 11:35
As Chris mentioned, the last thing you should change is your pack.
Personally, I've found that carrying my 12lbs baseweight of gear (excluding pack) in a well suspended & padded 4lb pack (meaning 16lbs total) is much more comfortable at the end of the day than having carried the same 12lbs in an ultralight pack (say 15oz). This also provides you with a buffer zone when you want to carry in a 12pack and 2 large pizzas, or more seriously, when you find yourself needing to ruck 6-8lbs of water on dry ridgelines.
Here is the link to a great company called Dancing Light Gear...
http://www.trailquest.net
I use the Arapaho Solo Tent/Tarp and my own personal version of their Soda-Can Stove.
icemanat95
11-24-2003, 12:39
First off, your typing style is extremely annoying to read. Using the normal rules of english grammar, or even a reasonably close facsimile thereof will vastly improve the readability of your posts and help ensure that someone actually responds. Many people will take one look at a post like yours and browse on rather than spend the effort reading it.
That said, there is a lot of good advice above. Under 20 pounds including water, but excluding food is very doable.
The question is how you choose to balance your comfort and safety zones. Comfort in camp vs. comfort on the trail, and having the safety equipment you NEED vs. the safety equipment you might want. A lot of ultralight hikers end up abandoning some of the more extreme methods and goals when they find that they end up sacrificing too much warmth in marginal weather or more comfort than they really want to sacrifice.
Ultimately it's a matter of taste. Give the Ultralight method a try and see if you like it. You'll certainly learn something and you'll gain a new perspective on backpacking.
Sorry I didn't mention it earlier, but I'd like to agree with the advice that you should not buy some superlight backpack until you've got your other gear weight well within the comfort limits of such a pack. The lightweight backpacking community jumped on the frameless pack bandwagon far too quickly and we're now recentering back towards a normal on this issue. Many of us see far too many people on the trail carrying loads that are too heavy for their brand-new, 12oz, frameless, ultralight backpack. They are as just miserable as they would be with a much heavier load in their old backpack.
Pack whatever you need to safely enjoy your hike. Nothing more, nothing less. I consider myself a "lightweight" backpacker (not ultralight) and my pack for a 3-season weekend trip usually weighs about 20lbs. with food, fuel, and water (in areas with reliable, regular access to water, otherwise I'll need to add a couple pounds of water). This weight includes a heavy (4lbs.) solo tent and a full-length thermarest (34oz.), so I may eventually go below 20lbs. as I trade these items for lighter equivalents (I plan to switch to hammock for most trips). Still, I do not have any sort of weight "goal" in mind when packing. I merely carefully select what I take and try to choose lightweight, multi-use items when possible. Do not pack with a weight goal in mind, but with survival and enjoyment in mind. I do calculate my gear weight with a kitchen scale and a spreadsheet program, so that I force myself to scrutinize the weight. However, I try very hard not to skimp on survival or try to achieve some magical weight goal. On long trips deeper into the wilderness, my pack weight will get closer to 30lbs. as I add food, water, and redundancy to my pack. You must try to think of possible scenarios where your gear selection might fail you, such as getting a whole set of clothes wet, etc.
Good luck and happy hiking!
Rain Man
11-24-2003, 23:47
...I consider myself a "lightweight" backpacker (not ultralight) and my pack for a 3-season weekend trip usually weighs about 20lbs. with food, fuel, and water (in areas with reliable, regular access to water, otherwise I'll need to add a couple pounds of water). This weight includes a heavy (4lbs.) solo tent and a full-length thermarest (34oz.)...
Kank,
Do you mind sharing with us what all you carry, and stay at 20lbs, along with a heavy tent and full-length Therma-Rest? You've certainly got MY attention!
Rain Man
RagingHampster
11-25-2003, 10:43
Do you mind sharing with us what all you carry, and stay at 20lbs, along with a heavy tent and sull-length Therma-Rest? You've certainly got MY attention!Ditto. I would love to here what you carry to stay under 20lbs including food/fuel/water with a 7 pound+ sleeping system.
Blue Jay
11-25-2003, 15:53
Hey, I only carry 2 pounds and that includes a TV and VCR. If you really want a laugh, check out the poll on pack weight.
Ditto. I would love to here what you carry to stay under 20lbs including food/fuel/water with a 7 pound+ sleeping system.
I notice that my original claim of "about 20lbs" quickly went to "at 20lbs" and then to "under 20lbs" :), so don't be too hard on me when we find out I am not under 20lbs. The following is from a recent trip where I was never more than a few miles from civilization and was probably sharing a few pieces of gear with a friend (we each carried a tent, though, since I was sick and might have been contagious). Note that I did mention that this was only a weekend trip. I also did not closely scrutinize this list before my last post (just glanced at it to make sure my shelter, food, and water was included), so if I find that I've left out some important things, I'll admit it. If you notice something I've missed, feel free to let me know. This trip was only an overnighter consisting of a proposed 17 miles. We bailed at 11 miles, since our proposed hike was going to be much longer than estimated (we were attempting a new loop idea that required a small bit of off-trail bushwacking and some painful road hiking). A longer trip would mainly require more food. As my memory is refreshed, I remember being short on food before leaving home, but I will correct that in the following calculations:
item oz.
GoLite Gust backpack 20.5
2 stuff sacks 2.5
rain jacket, Red Ledge 12.5
Base layer pants, midweight 7.4
2pr. Liner sock 0.8
Fleece cap, Turtle Fur 2
Jacket, 200w fleece 17.9
Ground cloth, 5-mil plastic 9.4
tent, stakes, poles, sacks 75.3
WM Ultralite +25F bag 27.75
Thermarest Light, full-length 34.25
Pur Hiker water filter 15
96-floz Nalgene Cantene 2.6
Water bottles, 16.9floz 1.5
fuel bottle, 8.45floz 0.75
stove, windscreen, pot,
lighter, and spoon 12.9
Glasses, w/ case 1.8
Pack rain liner, trash bag 1
2 trash bags, 2 bread bags 2
Bag of personal goods,
ID, cash, credit card 3
First-Aid kit, small solo kit 4.6
Headlamp, PrinceTec Aurora 2.8
cord for bear bag, 36-ft 1.3
Bandana, large cotton 0.95
Toilet paper, & spare Bic 1.5
Toothbrush, case, floss 0.5
moisturizer, 1/2-floz tub 0.5
Compass 1.75
food 25.4
water 33
alcohol, 4floz. 3.3
digital camera, case, batts 17.8
Forgot to add in previous post: tent body (so shelter is now 5.3lbs, not 4lbs)
more food (included above)
stove, fuel (shared partner's, but now included)
Total pack weight with consumables: 21.5lbs
Skin-out weight (with trekking poles): 27.7lbs
Yes, I'm now 1.5lbs over my previous quote, but I tried to be fair and added in the things I would have needed if I had not shared my friend's stove, etc. The overlooked tent body alone added 22.4oz. So my solo pack weight would indeed be more than 20lbs for this very minimal trip, but still less than 22lbs. If you feel I am missing important items, please explain them to me. I took only 1 extra layer of clothes, but this was reasonable for the weather. It cooled and rained non-stop during the 2nd day's hike (expected), so I was wearing most of my clothes on the second day. We ate breakfast before hiking the first day and ate supper after hiking the second day (Miguel's pizza!), so we did not carry those meals.
My shelter and sleeping pad are still the most obvious areas to cut weight. I probably didn't need my toothbrush or a few other small items for an overnight trip, either, but I carried them, so they are listed above. If you don't count my "optional" digital camera (rides on hip belt), my total pack weight was 20.4lbs, which is mighty close to my previous claim :). I did say "about 20lbs" for a weekend trip, but I should probably have said "less than 25lbs" to be more reasonable. It didn't mean to exaggerate, but will try to be more careful in the future.
Sorry about the formatting. I did a good job, but the forum software apparently throws away all the extra spacing.
Wolf,
This site Outlines the Basic Concepts of Lightweight Backpacking. It was very beneficial to me.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00034.html
Hope it helps.
MedicineMan
01-18-2004, 07:54
Get a Bora80 or a Shasta, you know the type-LazyBoy recliner packs for your back,,,,carry a two man tent for the luxury of all that space, carry an old Svea or Optimus white gas monster, and def. several sets of clothes to change into and out of throughout the day, dont forget a shortwave radio so you can listen to the world on the mountaintops, and dont forget a pack chair so you can relax around the shelters...get the pack up to around 50 pounds and do a section....say Wesser over Cheoah Bald....oh def. dont buy any of the above gear, just borrow it. Then when you get home lightweight hiking will have a new and more dear meaning.
eldwayno
01-18-2004, 10:34
All you people that are chiming in, I'd love to see your baseweight gear list, I too am trying to cut my current baseweight of 28lbs 10ozs down.
SGT Rock
01-18-2004, 10:55
http://hikinghq.net/packing_list.html
My packing list. It is a little old, I have changed some things since then.
Here is an Excel spreadsheet if you have excel:
http://hikinghq.net/xl/Example.exe
If the link doesn't work through here (it sometimes doesn't), then go here: http://hikinghq.net/xl/xl_packing.html
and then folow the wookbook link.
Take a look at http://mypage.iu.edu/~chwillet/travel/PCT/gear.html for my gear list for last summer's PCT hike. It is more or less what I would take on an AT hike. The baseweight is around 11 lbs.
eldwayno
01-18-2004, 19:17
Chris, SGT; thanks for your lists, and Chris, I've enjoyed reading your PCT journal for the past few days I'd glance for a few minutes start up where I left off, I thought you were a little hard on Glory :banana but it's all good. I hope that some day after my AT hike I'll get another chance to do a long term hike and hit the PCT. Thanks a lot guys.
Mausalot
01-31-2004, 21:36
Hey folks. One of the thru hikers from my video 2000 Miles to Maine goes through his pack one item at a time and weighs each item. He recently e-mailed me an itemized list of his gear. If you want to take a look at the video and the list: http://homepage.newschool.edu/~at2k/light.htm
This video footage did not make it onto the DVD, though there is a cool section where a woman trims out 10 pounds of stuff at Neels Gap.
:dance :dance :dance
Water is a constant so I'm not too worried about it's weight. It's one of those things I never think I have enough of. What I'm really curious about is what food provides the most bang for the weight? I know that certain foods depend upon personal taste but I'm really curious what food and what meals people consider a worthwhile investment in for the trail, without creating a giant downside in weight.
Reverie:-?
Water is a constant so I'm not too worried about it's weight. It's one of those things I never think I have enough of. What I'm really curious about is what food provides the most bang for the weight? I know that certain foods depend upon personal taste but I'm really curious what food and what meals people consider a worthwhile investment in for the trail, without creating a giant downside in weight.
Reverie:-?
The biggest bang for the buck would be to haul around a large jug of olive oil and drink it for your meals. However, not only would this be rather monotonous after a while, but it would also be fairly unpleasant. Fat, fat, fat, are the three words you want to remember if you are out for a long hike and expending a lot of calories. If you are hiking, say, 10-15 miles a day and carrying a reasonable pack, then you don't have to worry about this so much as your calorie expenditure is much less than if you are humping a 40 lb pack or trying to hike 20-25 miles a day.
Some ideas. Nuts have big time fat content. Switch kinds often. Sunflower seeds have a ton of calories and you can eat them in big hanfuls over the course of the day. Carry a soda bottle with some olive oil in it and dump into standard meals for additional kick. Nutella (chocolate-hazel nut spread) has a bunch of calories and fat and is a nice break from peanut butter. Speaking of peanut butter, eat it without a spoon: Use a King Size Snickers bar for a bigtime calorie feast. Cheese has a bunch of calories and fat and keeps well for a few days, even in the heat (brie, in 90 degree heat, is marvelous). Summer sausage, hard salami, and hunters sausage (I hate the hunters stuff, though) all pack a lot of calories. For a huge meal, dump chunks of sausage into your pot and cook for a bit to release some juicy stuff. Dump a package of Liptons on top along with some water. Of course, pour olive oil on top when done.
Food to avoid. Poptarts (no good energy). Instant potatoes (yes, I like these alot but they just don't have much staying power). Anything marked as lowfat or healthy.
See "Fueling up for 30 mile days" in the food subforum for an idea of what I ate on a typical day this summer.
You might consider sneakers instead of boots. Don't forget a pound off your feet is equivilent to 6 lbs off your pack. I converted and concur.
gravityman
02-04-2004, 11:40
Fat, fat, fat, are the three words you want to remember if you are out for a long hike and expending a lot of calories.
Food to avoid. Poptarts (no good energy). Instant potatoes (yes, I like these alot but they just don't have much staying power). Anything marked as lowfat or healthy.
See "Fueling up for 30 mile days" in the food subforum for an idea of what I ate on a typical day this summer.
Hmmm... I question this... Yes, fat is great because it has more calories per gram than carbs or protein, but it isn't the only thing. Most nutritionists will say 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. The reason for this is because of the speed at which the body can digest these different forms of energy. Oh, and protein is also used for building more muscles, which is pretty darn important too. Really carbs are the way to go for raw energy, especially complex carbs since they will not spike your blood sugar. However, one way around this is to eat small amount of simple carbs continually throughout the day.
Well, maybe you talk about this in your "fuelling up" article. I suppose i should read that before saying anything, but the fingers have done there thing :)
Gravity Man
Most nutritionists will say...
Gravity Man
A pox on your nutrionists!
Okay, that was a bit strong, I'm sorry. A diet of 100 % fat would not be terribly good, besides being monotonous. I listed only the fatty stuff I ate, as these give a lot of calories per weight. I do eat a fair number of carbohydrates as well, but try to get as much fat as I can. I like the carbs early in the morning and as snacks while hiking. Fattier foods get consumed during breaks and provide a day long, consistent level of energy. The carbs bump this level up from time to time.
What percentages work best depend upon the person, the terrain, and the type of exercise. Right now, my lazy arse is planted in a chair and my requirements are different (say 99/1/0) than when I try to hike 1000 miles in a month (say 30,20,50). The figure you quote is for someone's idea of an average person doing an unspecified, average activity. If I was training for a marathon, I might use it. But, long distance hiking is not average. Long distance hiking doesn't require bursts of energy or speedy moves: You don't need to move quickly, just long and slow. It really is the lazy man's sport, which is why I think I like it so much. Just walk and walk and walk some more, never at a rapid pace. I think hiking is the only sport where sitting under a shady tree for a nap is a goal. Fats, with a much slower, longer energy delivery, are the way to go for trying to hike all day long, every day. Typically, I think, foods with a lot of fat in them generally carry sufficient protein with them. For example, nuts, cheese, and sausage.
Finding a collection of food that works for you is a personalized thing, although there are some general guidelines. Snacking on candy bars, nuts, dried fruit, and crackers while you hike keeps you from getting particularly hungry in between breaks. During a break eat down something, like a peanut butter burrito or some sausage and/or cheese. Maybe two jumbo chocolate cookies with nutella sandwiched between them. Sometime in the afternoon or early evening, cook a dinner with as much fat in it as you can. Besides giving your body the calories it needs, you'll stay warmer at night for a longer period of time.
Do not forget to lighten your footwear. Try low cuts ("approach shoes/trail runners) instead of traditional hiking boots. Also if you use silnylon stuff sacks, you should not need a packcover. Just one more piece of gear to hassle with. For camp shoes, switch to Waldies. It is nice to have something dry to wear on one's feet around camp.