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Hurley
10-26-2007, 13:42
Hey guys, my name is Hurley (I'm 22) and the way things are headed I'll be starting a thru-hike NOBO around the start of March. Since I will be doing the trail then and not taking any college courses I will no longer be on my parents insurance plan. I was just wondering what sort of plans you guys have (if any)? Or if you could reccomend anything to me that is low cost. I think it would be completely ignorant to go out there and not be covered somewhat. Hospital could sink the trip real quick if something were to happen.

Also, how readily available is computer/internet access along the AT?

take-a-knee
10-26-2007, 13:51
Most maladies that might befall you, stress fractures, diarhea, etc won't be covered by most insurance plans anyway so why bother with it? Just don't set yourself on fire with a stove. I don't think Jim Bridger worried about his health plan.

hopefulhiker
10-26-2007, 13:53
One thing I did was get my doctor to prescribe some good antibiotics in advance so I had them.. I ended up using them when a blister got infected...

Hurley
10-26-2007, 14:00
Good plan. It's not necessarily a huge concern with me. More or less something to keep the folks happy about while I'm gone.

Moon Monster
10-26-2007, 15:08
The search function on this web site will lead you to dozens of threads already on topic. This one links to many of those:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25361&highlight=insurance

ChinMusic
10-26-2007, 15:23
Most maladies that might befall you, stress fractures, diarhea, etc won't be covered by most insurance plans anyway so why bother with it?
One fall and you may find yourself WISHING you had insurance. I view the opinion of going without totally irresponsible.

And yes, this is a parent talking.....

dockaos
11-01-2007, 12:08
One fall and you may find yourself WISHING you had insurance. I view the opinion of going without totally irresponsible.

Chin,

Gotta say that I agree with you. At a minimum I would find a cheap plan with a high deductable. Just check the coverage closely before signing on the dotted line. My insurance covered a recent stress facture quite nicely and I still came out ahead, even after factoring in premiums.

Granted, when I was 22, I didn't have much use for medical insurance, but I wasn't planning on a six month trip in the wilderness, either.

dessertrat
11-01-2007, 12:16
You can get a good plan to cover major stuff such as broken bones, at your age, for less than $200 per month. It is worth having. Just get HMO Blue or something, with the highest deductible.

mrc237
11-01-2007, 12:16
Shop around you have the time. If $ is a factor find a PT job to pay for it. Going without it is risky. Ask M/D maybe there's a rider on their policy you can pay.

silken
11-01-2007, 15:54
Blue Cross Blue Shield of (whatever state you are from) seems to have the best prices. I'm a graduating college senior myself, and I'm 20 and I'll be without insurance so I've been checking it all out. I'm hoping to go NOBO in March.

wrongway_08
11-01-2007, 16:38
I know I'm going to catch it for this but I have never had insurance.
There is a big chunk I keep aside in case something happens.

If you dont have a "oops" fund saved up, a cheap insurance plan would be a good idea.

ChinMusic
11-01-2007, 16:45
I know I'm going to catch it for this but I have never had insurance.
There is a big chunk I keep aside in case something happens.

If you dont have a "oops" fund saved up, a cheap insurance plan would be a good idea.
Insurance is something you hope to never use.

Would you go through life without insuring your home? ( some do and cry for governmental help once disaster strikes)
Would you go through life without insuring your car? (against the law in most, if not all, states)

You roll the dice ya takes your chances....

gravityman
11-01-2007, 17:10
We got a "major medical" insurance policy for 6 months from somewhere... Travelers? That sounds right. It was something like 250 for 6 months. You can only renew for another 6 months, and then they drop you.

It's totally worth it, and does what insurance is meant to do - protect you from MAJOR financial hits. It's not meant to "make you whole" as most Americans expect thier health insurance to do.

Gravity and Danger

The Solemates
11-01-2007, 18:18
Most maladies that might befall you, stress fractures, diarhea, etc won't be covered by most insurance plans anyway so why bother with it? Just don't set yourself on fire with a stove. I don't think Jim Bridger worried about his health plan.

one thing I wouldnt suggest doing is listening to this guy. if you fall in mahoosic notch and break your leg and slip into a coma from a concussion for 4 days, then your screwed.

not only that, picking up insurance when you get back off the trail will be a hassle. most companies will not cover you if you've had a lapse in 'non'-coverage.

getting cheap "catastrophic cut your head off" type of insurance is what we did. we were able to get some for about $1000 for the two of us for 6 months.

Dancer
11-06-2007, 07:16
I know this won't help you Hurley but it might help others out there like myself.

I'm hoping for a leave of absence from work in which case I can pay my premiums up front and keep my coverage. If I don't get a leave of absence I am going to take advantage of Cobra coverage that will continue your coverage for up to 6 months as long as you pay premiums. I think the premiums go up. I need to look into that and see exactly what is involved.

AW

pitdog
11-06-2007, 08:31
Has anyone ever heard of the term preexisting condition.

Farr Away
11-06-2007, 09:16
You might ask your parents to check if their policy could cover you anyway - even if you're not a student. I was surprised recently to find that both the insurance my company was switching from and the insurance it was switching to would cover my dependents through age 24. I had always thought that kids had to be full-time students to be covered after the age of 18, not so.

soulrebel
11-06-2007, 09:25
insurance is like wearing a raincoat. You don't want to but you know you should. Sometimes you do-sometimes you don't. We didn't have insurance on our hike, everything was ok so I stopped putting on my raincoat.

Got insurance when we got back, wife got pregnant and the difference in the bill is $1500 (plus $200 a month for the policy) versus $18,000. So in the end it was a good thing. But in our situation we could've qualified for medicaid and probably had the baby at a state run facility on tax money.

Ask your parents what they think--did they invest much time in you? Are you really worth it? lol If you get hit by a car and have head trauma that would be a situation so watch out in town.

IN the woods you'll be fine especially at 22. carry a dose of doxycycline for lyme and maybe some pepto bismol, antihistimines, superglue for wounds =-- aok!

wife says, "insurance is a racket"

hub -0yea i wish i owned an insurance company..hike all the time w/ medivac pizza delivery w/ no copay

pitdog
11-06-2007, 09:36
I agree but if the bill is 15000 for a child,who pays the difference.I was hurt on a logging job w ins..I was out of work 3 mths,without pay,and had to hire a lawyer to get the moneys months later.I am a thru hiker and when my foot was broken I was a little concerned.My AT feet are the foundation of my hiking,and they didnt care.They didnt care if I ate or was out in the woods or streets.There views of the world are highly selective.Hire a lawyer to check out your policy and it may save one money when needed.

max patch
11-06-2007, 09:44
You don't need insurance because you are "hiking the trail".

You need insurance, period.

Sly
11-06-2007, 09:54
One of the 46 million that are uninsured here. Hiked over 10,000 miles without it. What's a poor boy to do?

max patch
11-06-2007, 09:58
Hey Sly, now that you live in beautiful Cobb County you can listen to Boortz. 750 on your dial. Anytime someone would say they "couldn't afford" insurance he'd ask a couple questions:

Do you own a car?
Do you own a television?
Do you have a phone?

Turns out that people CAN afford insurance. They just choose to spend their money on other things.

Sly
11-06-2007, 10:12
Hey Sly, now that you live in beautiful Cobb County you can listen to Boortz. 750 on your dial. Anytime someone would say they "couldn't afford" insurance he'd ask a couple questions:

Do you own a car?
Do you own a television?
Do you have a phone?

Turns out that people CAN afford insurance. They just choose to spend their money on other things.

Well, it seems in a city of how many million, all I can get on the AM dial is the likes of Boortz. You'd think they'd have the other side if not just for haha's

Anyway, how would one manage without a car or a phone in the work life?

Do you own a car? Yes, paid for. Insurance is $35 per month
Do you own a television? Yes, paid for.
Do you have a phone? Yes, $35 per month.

$70 per month is NOT going to buy health insurance. Now, I guess I could get insurance rather than hike, but I'd rather take my chances to do what I love, then live to buy insurance.

Cannibal
11-06-2007, 10:16
Do you own a car? Yes, paid for. Insurance is $35 per month


Holy Crap! Who's your agent I ask as I mail off my $120 monthly premium.

For the record, I don't have a phone. Turned it off two weeks ago and don't miss it AT ALL. I won't have a phone for 6 months while hiking so why not start now before the politicians start calling?

pitdog
11-06-2007, 10:29
I agree w sly.I own my own business and have several insurances.Every time I need the ins.companies I invest in,for ins.Its like pulling teeth.Some people,mostly state workers,get reduced rates and we ,small business,foot the bill.

Lone Wolf
11-06-2007, 10:38
One of the 46 million that are uninsured here. Hiked over 10,000 miles without it. What's a poor boy to do?

me too. no insurance

EWS
11-06-2007, 10:42
me too. no insuranceYou have a stock portfolio, but no insurance. Interesting choice.

pitdog
11-06-2007, 10:47
You go lone wolf,the moneys I had spent on ins I could hike for the rest of my life.Im sick to my stomach.

jesse
11-06-2007, 10:52
I don't know about Florida, I am licenced in Georgia. The Blue Cross plans in Georgia suck. The only time I have people go there is if Blue Cross is the only company that will isure them because of health reasons. The best plan in Georgia is a Health Savings Account qualified plan from Golden Rule. $53.25 to insure 22 year old male, with a $5,000 deductible.

ChinMusic
11-06-2007, 11:52
You have a stock portfolio, but no insurance. Interesting choice.
Choices indeed..........:rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
11-06-2007, 12:03
i've saved tons of $$ by not blowing it on insurance

ChinMusic
11-06-2007, 15:46
i've saved tons of $$ by not blowing it on insurance
The "wisdom" of that statement is astounding....

Lone Wolf
11-06-2007, 15:49
stick around. i can teach you a thing or 2. you seem lost

Sly
11-06-2007, 15:51
i've saved tons of $$ by not blowing it on insurance

I know a multi-millionaire from back home that never insured anything unless he was legally obligated to and that was part of the reason he became rich. It's a risk some are willing to take. but obviously not all.

ChinMusic
11-06-2007, 16:02
I know a multi-millionaire from back home that never insured anything unless he was legally obligated to and that was part of the reason he became rich. It's a risk some are willing to take. but obviously not all.
Yeah, look at the Geico commercials. We all NOW KNOW that Fred Flintstone and Jed Clampett got their millions by saving on insurance.....:rolleyes:

Rich folks don't have to insure for mundane expenses and only need to insure for the catastrophic. They can EASILY self-insure for small expenses.

Sly
11-06-2007, 16:06
Yeah, look at the Geico commercials. We all NOW KNOW that Fred Flintstone and Jed Clampett got their millions by saving on insurance.....:rolleyes:



I guess you're not rich, huh? This guy didn't insure anything from the beginning. You don't have to agree, it's OK.

jesse
11-06-2007, 16:40
Buying less insurance is what the Health Savings Account plans are all about.

dessertrat
11-06-2007, 16:46
i've saved tons of $$ by not blowing it on insurance

It's a risk thing. If you need it, then you lose money by not having insurance. If you never need it, then you gain money by not having it. Some people will always, and I mean always, be among the lucky who don't need it, or else nobody would be in the insurance business.

briarpatch
11-06-2007, 17:26
You might ask your parents to check if their policy could cover you anyway - even if you're not a student. I was surprised recently to find that both the insurance my company was switching from and the insurance it was switching to would cover my dependents through age 24. I had always thought that kids had to be full-time students to be covered after the age of 18, not so.

My insurance defines a full time student as in school for 5 months during the year. If you are just taking time off to hike for 6 months, but will be returning to school after the hike, you may still be considered a full time student.

Shutterbug
11-06-2007, 17:57
Hey guys, my name is Hurley (I'm 22) and the way things are headed I'll be starting a thru-hike NOBO around the start of March. Since I will be doing the trail then and not taking any college courses I will no longer be on my parents insurance plan. I was just wondering what sort of plans you guys have (if any)? Or if you could reccomend anything to me that is low cost. I think it would be completely ignorant to go out there and not be covered somewhat. Hospital could sink the trip real quick if something were to happen.

Also, how readily available is computer/internet access along the AT?

One thing people often overlook is that you get cheaper rates for medical treatment if you have insurance. I just got a bill for some mecical tests. The bill would have been double if I had not had insurance.

It may not be fair, but that is the way the system works.

Huffy1
11-06-2007, 18:04
You don't need insurance because you are "hiking the trail".

You need insurance, period.
Well put.

ATbound
11-06-2007, 20:07
check out worldnomads.com this is the insurance I'll be getting for my hike $240 for 6 months. I've done the research- it's a good plan

Hurley
11-06-2007, 23:03
My insurance defines a full time student as in school for 5 months during the year. If you are just taking time off to hike for 6 months, but will be returning to school after the hike, you may still be considered a full time student.

My parent's plan involves me taking 12 hours each semester. That's what they label full time as.

wrongway_08
11-07-2007, 14:09
i've saved tons of $$ by not blowing it on insurance


Yup, you got it right Wolf.
Lets see, for me its been:
15 years of no ins., aprox savings (money IN my pocket) - average of $400 per month in my area (low rate is 300.00 that covers nothing unless you head gets cut off, high of $550.00 for stupid yuppies), for a plan that covers usefull visits and such - $72,000.
Amount I have spent over these years on every visit to a dental or medical visit, including medication and all cost to repair my self - $400.00 in the 15 years.
- 2 dental visits, most recent one was 2 weeks ago to get a cavity fixed - other then that my teeth are in perfect condition. (last one was about 6 years ago for a "total checkup")
- 1 doctors visit for strep throat (about 6 years ago)
- 1 doctors visit for a check up - 1 year ago, all good.
- Cost of Advil and such I keep around the house and my medical "kits" for mountain biking, kayaking, hiking and such.

Of course I do a lot of biking and other sports that keep me in shape, also I dont do those stupid flu-shots (offered for free at my work), I see the people who get them, they feel like crap for 2 or 3 weeks after and miss more work due to being sick then I do :rolleyes: , and they cant understand why allowing a shot to take care of things rather then letting your bodys imune system get stronger doing the work itself is a bad idea............


I will keep all my adventures and things I have done over the years. Come to think of it, I am in a lot better shape without insurance then I would be if I had it - - - - I have been able to afford my mountain bikes/kayaks, gas money to local areas to ride........ if I had insurance I would have been "safe" being able to afford nothing more then sitting on my couch getting fat. Of course I would have had insurance to take care of being fat/out of shape while not being able to offerd anything but insurance.

I also have a nice fat "oops" savings, just incase.

This money is also payn for my thru-hike.

Anyways, it is a gamble, in my case it paid over $71,500.00 on Average.

As long as your choice makes your life better for you, it doesnt matter.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 19:03
As long as your choice makes your life better for you, it doesnt matter.
And your type are the ones the REST of us taxpayers have to take care of once one of your ilk needs care.

You call it a "choice". It is.

It is also called Free-loading, as you are putting off YOUR risk onto OTHERS.

Don't fret though. Us poor suckers, I mean taxpayers, will take care of ya should something untoward happen.

Lone Wolf
11-07-2007, 19:06
And your type are the ones the REST of us taxpayers have to take care of once one of your ilk needs care.

You call it a "choice". It is.

It is also called Free-loading, as you are putting off YOUR risk onto OTHERS.

Don't fret though. Us poor suckers, I mean taxpayers, will take care of ya should something untoward happen.

BS. I don't have insurance, i pay taxes and when i have gone to a hospital i pay the bill. $50-$100 month. no need for insurance. you must be an insurance salesman

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 19:13
you must be an insurance salesman
LOL

YOU, must not understand risk.....

Anyone that CHOOSES not to have insurance coverage, just to save money for themselves, can be described in these terms: selfish, irresponsible, and burdensome.

Sorry if the truth hurts.....

Lone Wolf
11-07-2007, 19:15
LOL

YOU, must not understand risk.....

Anyone that CHOOSES not to have insurance coverage, just to save money for themselves, can be described in these terms: selfish, irresponsible, and burdensome.

Sorry if the truth hurts.....

truth don't hurt here scooter. :D you're just a sheeple suckered into the insurance racket. that's the truth

Sly
11-07-2007, 19:15
You call it a "choice". It is.

It is also called Free-loading, as you are putting off YOUR risk onto OTHERS.



Not getting or being able to afford health insurance is called free loading? Sure buddy. :rolleyes:

rickb
11-07-2007, 19:34
I admire people like Wolf who are willing to gamble it all. Loosing a bike to mounting bills would suck, but get prostate cancer and one's portfolio could take a real big hit. Even if you have a boatload of stocks.

More power to those who have assets and still are willing to roll the dice.

It important to consider what assets are at risk, though.

For a young person just getting out of college, I'd be asking not whether or not my hike could end under the burdon of 8 grand worth of bills for a broken leg, but rather how much my folks would be writing checks for (thier choice, of course) if I ended up in really a bad way. Like if you got hit by lightening, or just bad luck.

YMMV.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 19:42
Not getting or being able to afford health insurance is called free loading? Sure buddy. :rolleyes:
Are you have trouble understanding the word "chooses"???

I even put in caps to be easier to see.....:rolleyes:

wrongway_08
11-07-2007, 20:13
And your type are the ones the REST of us taxpayers have to take care of once one of your ilk needs care.

You call it a "choice". It is.

It is also called Free-loading, as you are putting off YOUR risk onto OTHERS.

Don't fret though. Us poor suckers, I mean taxpayers, will take care of ya should something untoward happen.


Bul$ $hit.

I pay taxes.

Its not free-loading. What kind of stupid a$$ coment is that?

People having kids - then jumping on to the welfare band wagon - freeloaders.
Drug addicts - free loaders
sue happy people - free loaders
people who dont work because the Gov't gives them a check - free loaders
people who prey on others - free loaders

I might decide not to have insurance but I take care of myself, I am in better health then you will ever be in (I will bet thousands that you cant beat me in a multi sport endurance race), I pay my own way in life, I take care of all my own needs................... I dont believe thats called free loading.

Oh yea, I guess not taking all those free Gov't paid for (see your tax money) flu-shots and medicals that I could take at my work for no other reason to suck up free benifits is Free-loading off you....... B.S..

Oh yea, I guess you are thinking that if something did happen and I couldnt pay for it out of pocket that I would just say "oh well - someone elses problem"? Again, B.S., I would find a way to pay for it. You are assuming something - again stupid. For one thing, if you would read - I keep a nice fat "oops" account set aside. If that wouldnt cover if I would find a way to pay for it. I am a hard worker, I dont ever cheat the system, I always do more then needed, I always help out people when I am able, I clean up local parks of the trash people leave behind - so that your kids (if you have them) dont have to see trash when they go out to play, not to mention a whole list of other stuff I do to help out when I can.
NOT A FREE-LOADER.
*know what your talking about first, before putting your foot in your mouth. *

rickb
11-07-2007, 20:22
I pay taxes.

Its not free-loading. What kind of stupid a$$ coment is that?

The Commonwealth of MA now "requires" everyone of us to have insurance.

The theory is that even if one can't pay for anesthesia during surgery, most will accept the charity if they find themselves in need of it. So the state wants to have everyone help with the overall cost when they can.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 20:29
Bul$ $hit.

I pay taxes.

Me deciding not to have insurance, taking care of myself, in better health then you will ever be in (I will bet thousands that you cant beat me in a multi sport endurance race), paying my own way in life, taking care of all my own needs................... I dont believe thats called free loading.

If, somehow it were possible for you to sign a contract to forgo medical care beyond your financial means, should such and event occur, THEN, and ONLY then, would you have a point. The facts are, Uncle Sucker will bail you out and save you should something untoward happen. Uncle Sucker = others.

As it is, ANYONE who CHOOSES not to have insurance is consciously pushing THEIR risks onto the backs of others.

THAT, is free-loading....

wrongway_08
11-07-2007, 20:42
Its like sayn any who CHOOSES to own a gun is a murder.

You would be assuming those who own guns will kill.

wrongway_08
11-07-2007, 20:52
If, somehow it were possible for you to sign a contract to forgo medical care beyond your financial means, should such and event occur, THEN, and ONLY then, would you have a point. The facts are, Uncle Sucker will bail you out and save you should something untoward happen. Uncle Sucker = others.

As it is, ANYONE who CHOOSES not to have insurance is consciously pushing THEIR risks onto the backs of others.

THAT, is free-loading....

So the fact that I take care of all my own bills, I take care of everything on my own, that makes me a free loader????

I had to edit my post that you quoted, after reading it in your post it didnt sound like I meant it to. Still says the same thing, just easier to understand.

Lone Wolf
11-07-2007, 20:58
So the fact that I take care of all my own bills, I take care of everything on my own, that makes me a free loader????

the dude is an insurance salesman. he ain't listenin'.

Sly
11-07-2007, 21:00
The Commonwealth of MA now "requires" everyone of us to have insurance.


How much for the un or self-employed??

rickb
11-07-2007, 21:02
They got a whole lot of programs for that.

Its kind of a good deal. Special rates for the young.

If you come to MA with preexisting conditions you can get coverage at the prevailing rates.

I know there has to be a catch, but I haven't seen it yet.

Panzer1
11-07-2007, 21:05
You might ask your parents to check if their policy could cover you anyway - even if you're not a student. I was surprised recently to find that both the insurance my company was switching from and the insurance it was switching to would cover my dependents through age 24. I had always thought that kids had to be full-time students to be covered after the age of 18, not so.

The age that you come off your parents insurance varies state to state.
Each state has their own rules. Its a state rule not a Federal or insurance company rule.

Also the circumstances that surround the age that you come off. Some states let handicapped childres stay on their parents policy the whole life.

Panzer

wrongway_08
11-07-2007, 21:09
L. Wolf - :)

ChinMusic - I have to go take care of some responsibilities before going to bed..... a free-loaders work is never done!

wakapak
11-07-2007, 21:10
I agree with those that say you dont necessariy need insurance...it's all a choice really. Just that our society has brainwashed many, many ppl into believing they need it to live. I've saved tons of money over the years not having it. Have I needed medical care? only once in the 6 years of no insurace. and YES I paid my bill. Still turned out I saved by paying it out of pocket then paying all those months of insurance coverage. I think it's all a scam for Big Pharma to make money off of, personally. I agree that there are those who may need it, but majority of us truly don't.

rickb
11-07-2007, 21:17
At least we can all agree that homeowners' insurance makes sense, even though very few ever put in a substantial claim.

Because if your house burns down without insurance, carpenters and plumbers and roofers and the rest won't come and give everything they have to make it better on someone else's dime.

mobileman
11-07-2007, 21:22
Yup, you got it right Wolf.
Lets see, for me its been:
15 years of no ins., aprox savings (money IN my pocket) - average of $400 per month in my area (low rate is 300.00 that covers nothing unless you head gets cut off, high of $550.00 for stupid yuppies), for a plan that covers usefull visits and such - $72,000.
Amount I have spent over these years on every visit to a dental or medical visit, including medication and all cost to repair my self - $400.00 in the 15 years.
- 2 dental visits, most recent one was 2 weeks ago to get a cavity fixed - other then that my teeth are in perfect condition. (last one was about 6 years ago for a "total checkup")
- 1 doctors visit for strep throat (about 6 years ago)
- 1 doctors visit for a check up - 1 year ago, all good.
- Cost of Advil and such I keep around the house and my medical "kits" for mountain biking, kayaking, hiking and such.

Of course I do a lot of biking and other sports that keep me in shape, also I dont do those stupid flu-shots (offered for free at my work), I see the people who get them, they feel like crap for 2 or 3 weeks after and miss more work due to being sick then I do :rolleyes: , and they cant understand why allowing a shot to take care of things rather then letting your bodys imune system get stronger doing the work itself is a bad idea............


I will keep all my adventures and things I have done over the years. Come to think of it, I am in a lot better shape without insurance then I would be if I had it - - - - I have been able to afford my mountain bikes/kayaks, gas money to local areas to ride........ if I had insurance I would have been "safe" being able to afford nothing more then sitting on my couch getting fat. Of course I would have had insurance to take care of being fat/out of shape while not being able to offerd anything but insurance.

I also have a nice fat "oops" savings, just incase.

This money is also payn for my thru-hike.

Anyways, it is a gamble, in my case it paid over $71,500.00 on Average.

As long as your choice makes your life better for you, it doesnt matter.
Sure, after all your savings are gone and you still have cancer or another problem along with the remaining $350,000,00 in medical bills plus all your future medical debits. Then your too sick to work, is that the time you sponge off the rest of the "insured suckers"? Get real bud and remove your head from your a$$. Young know it all's suck.....

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 21:27
So the fact that I take care of all my own bills, I take care of everything on my own, that makes me a free loader????

I realize that some will not understand the concept, but yes, having the public assume YOUR risk, as a CHOICE, is free-loading.

It would be no different than driving without insurance and justifying it by saying, "I have never had an accident. Ain't I smart?".

Such "choices" are irresponsible and in the case of auto insurance, illegal on top of that.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 21:30
At least we can all agree that homeowners' insurance makes sense, even though very few ever put in a substantial claim.

Because if your house burns down without insurance, carpenters and plumbers and roofers and the rest won't come and give everything they have to make it better on someone else's dime.
Thank you Rick. I knew someone on this site would get it. It appears we are the minority though. I'm cool with that......:D

take-a-knee
11-07-2007, 22:10
There exists an article on Medscape about a physician, somewhere in the south, TN, I think, who accepts, cash, check, or credit card, and NO FORM of INSURANCE! Why? Because he got sick of getting screwed by them, and he got sick of having to pay people to negotiate the maze of paperwork required to get paid from the bastards, and mainly, he got tired of having to practice substandard medicine. The bureacratic machine MUST be fed, the get theirs first, the only way for today's physician to make a living is to cut the time spent with each patient to the bare minimum, or less.

This Doc only has a couple of employees, he spends up to a half hour with each patient, how long has it been since you've seen that happen?

You numbskulls who are afraid to walk down the street without health insurance are helping destroy what was once the best health care system in the world. Competition has been removed from the equation, it can only get worse from here.

Rift Zone
11-07-2007, 22:12
insurance racketInsurance COMPANIES are there for one thing... Profit! They aint there for you! If you disagree, I'm happy for you... But lets let the bottom line of State Farm talk here. Them guys aint doing too bad!

wakapak
11-07-2007, 22:14
Take-a-Knee...that's an awesome find and thanks for sharing it. That is exactly why more and more chiropractors these days are going the road of not accepting insurances. The insurance companies want to dictate to us what we can or can't do, and tell us how to practice (i am a DC). Plus, it takes soooo much time and manpower, at least as a chiro, to file the claims, etc.

Good for that Physician, I say!!

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 22:23
There are two distinct issues at play here.

1. Some insurance companies are crooks: No complaints from ME on this one....sorry Wolfy

2. Pawning YOUR risk on others.

If you cannot separate the two......well, it must just be too complicated for you....

Rift Zone
11-07-2007, 22:26
insurance companies are crooksend of story

rafe
11-07-2007, 22:29
I keep a nice fat "oops" account set aside.

How big? A serious medical "oops" -- it needn't be your fault -- can set you back big-time. We're talking tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of $.

It could be an infection, injury, "pre-existing condition" that sneaks up on you -- it doesn't matter. Nor does it matter how healthy you think you are. Sch!tt happens.

take-a-knee
11-07-2007, 22:30
There are two distinct issues at play here.

1. Some insurance companies are crooks: No complaints from ME on this one....sorry Wolfy

2. Pawning YOUR risk on others.

If you cannot separate the two......well, it must just be too complicated for you....

To start with, a thru hike doesn't entail much of what I would call "risk", riding around Iraq for half of 05 in a pickup truck (sometimes you gotta make a living), now that IS what I'd call risk. I guess it all depends on your perspective.

So, when Corleon's thugs knock, just have your money ready.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 22:36
Comparing the risk being in Iraq to medical risk is your argument??????

Good Lord man, at least make an effort will ya?

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 22:43
end of story
If you are going to quote someone, at least make an effort not to distort the statement.

Deliberately leaving off "Some" is more than telling.

There is no question that the insurance business is out for itself. That is a TOTALLY different issue from the question of risk.

I'm starting to understand this though. Many are using THAT as an excuse for their irresponsibility.

As rickn mentioned: I'm sure those that CHOOSE to not carry health insurance choose not to carry home-owner's insurance as well.

At least with not carrying home-owner's insurance you are only putting yourself at risk. Unless, of course, you don't cry to the government if it burns down.

halftime
11-07-2007, 22:48
My parent's plan involves me taking 12 hours each semester. That's what they label full time as.

You should be able to continue the same coverage for up to 18 months through cobra. Just had to do this because my daughter graduated. In your case you should be able to pick back up if/when you finish your hike and start back to school.

jessicacomp
11-07-2007, 22:49
hey there, I've been reading these boards on and off for awhile but never posted anything till now. However, this grabbed my attention, because I also am 22 and am planning a thru hike in March. I plan on paying for insurance the entire time I am on the trail. Even if you have to charge it or borrow money or whatever, I am 99% sure it will be well worth it! I'm sure in the 4 pages of replies, this has already been said, but coming from someone in the exact same position, I hope it is helpful!

Rift Zone
11-07-2007, 22:55
Deliberately leaving off "Some"LOL I couldn't resist. Besides, I'd like to know of even one insurance company that sincerely cares more about making their customers "whole" over making profit off of them.

And while we are talking about "distortion"... I think it is a bit of a stretch for you to be claiming that those without insurance equates to them free loading. More power to your argument but likewise, poor form on it's origin!

2. Pawning YOUR risk on others.

Rift Zone
11-07-2007, 23:23
Can't name one?
is more than telling.Perhaps you should have been the one to omit the "Some"!

So what of your second point? Tell me more about that. How do my risks translate into your risks? That is what you imply, is it not? Go on then.

EWS
11-07-2007, 23:30
That is exactly why more and more chiropractors these days are going the road of not accepting insurances. 95% of Chiropractors shouldn't be considered medical physicians and are the closest to thing to voodoo medicine that is accepted by the American public. Their "preventative" services have proved to be worth squat. Many insurance companies won't pay them and is why they "don't accept" insurance.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:37
LOL I couldn't resist. Besides, I'd like to know of even one insurance company that sincerely cares more about making their customers "whole" over making profit off of them.

And while we are talking about "distortion"... I think it is a bit of a stretch for you to be claiming that those without insurance equates to them free loading. More power to your argument but likewise, poor form on it's origin!
If one wishes to make the argument that "all" insurance companies are crooks.....well.... go for it. Just don't misrepresent me along the way.


There is NO distortion in calling someone a free-loader when they don't assume their OWN risk. If one chooses not to carry insurance, and they cannot afford a catastrophic illness, THEMSELVES, by definition they are depending on others to pick up the tab in case of a disastrous illness.

It would be no different than expecting your neighbors to pay for YOUR house should it burn down.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:39
95% of Chiropractors shouldn't be considered medical physicians and are the closest to thing to voodoo medicine that is accepted by the American public. Their "preventative" services have proved to be worth squat. Many insurance companies won't pay them and is why they "don't accept" insurance.
........................10-foot pole.

rickb
11-07-2007, 23:40
The got a US Postage Stamp. 'Nuff said.

EWS
11-07-2007, 23:41
........................10-foot pole.Ya sissy;)

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:41
So what of your second point? Tell me more about that. How do my risks translate into your risks? That is what you imply, is it not? Go on then.
Read my last response to rift.

Is that too complicated?

wakapak
11-07-2007, 23:42
95% of Chiropractors shouldn't be considered medical physicians and are the closest to thing to voodoo medicine that is accepted by the American public. Their "preventative" services have proved to be worth squat. Many insurance companies won't pay them and is why they "don't accept" insurance.

I am going to hazard a guess that you have never been to a Chiropractor, nor do you know what it is truly about?

AND, most insurance companies do compensate for chiro care, but a lot of chiro's dont want to play the medical game with the companies.

and i agree...Chiropractors shouldnt be considered medical physicians, and I am a chiropractor. I never want to be, nor will I ever claim to be a medical physician. These are two separate and distinct professions.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:42
Ya sissy;)
I've made my quota of enemies for the day.....;)

Uncle Silly
11-07-2007, 23:44
There is NO distortion in calling someone a free-loader when they don't assume their OWN risk. If one chooses not to carry insurance, and they cannot afford a catastrophic illness, THEMSELVES, by definition they are depending on others to pick up the tab in case of a disastrous illness.

So why is there a tab to pick up again? :-?

Oh yeah... 'cause as a society we've decided that every illness must be treated. Regardless of expense.

Other societies decide that if it's so important that everyone get proper medical treatment, then the society should fund that treatment so that everyone can. That makes sense to me. American healthcare doesn't; it's completely cracked out. I have a personal rule about playing games I don't agree with: I don't.

If you wanna play, knock yourself out. I won't be playing 'till the rules change. If that makes me a freeloader, well, at least I'm in good company.

Sly
11-07-2007, 23:45
So, when should one be required to purchase health insurance before they're considered a freeloader? Before food, rent, mortgage, car, home owners or renters ins., car ins., college etc, etc ?

take-a-knee
11-07-2007, 23:48
95% of Chiropractors shouldn't be considered medical physicians and are the closest to thing to voodoo medicine that is accepted by the American public. Their "preventative" services have proved to be worth squat. Many insurance companies won't pay them and is why they "don't accept" insurance.

You are wrong about insurance companies not paying for chiropractic care, you are also wrong about calling what they do "voodoo medicine". I spent six months in Haiti, I can tell you about voodoo medicine.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:48
If you wanna play, knock yourself out. I won't be playing 'till the rules change. If that makes me a freeloader, well, at least I'm in good company.
Well at least you are an honest, self-aware free-loader. That by itself puts you in the front of the class.

ChinMusic
11-07-2007, 23:50
So, when should one be required to purchase health insurance before they're considered a freeloader? Before food, rent, mortgage, car, home owners or renters ins., car ins., college etc, etc ?
Certainly before internet......

EWS
11-07-2007, 23:58
I am going to hazard a guess that you have never been to a Chiropractor, nor do you know what it is truly about?

AND, most insurance companies do compensate for chiro care, but a lot of chiro's dont want to play the medical game with the companies.

and i agree...Chiropractors shouldnt be considered medical physicians, and I am a chiropractor. I never want to be, nor will I ever claim to be a medical physician. These are two separate and distinct professions.


Yeah I have. From the ages of 12-15 I went to a chiropractor for preventative sports injuries:rolleyes:, who popped everything in my back and neck twice a week.

There is only one chiropractor who I've ever know who really earned his keep. I ripped the muscles away from my C5 and C6, and went to him after my healing slowed way down and after much research.

Sly
11-07-2007, 23:59
Certainly before internet......

I don't pay for internet. But don't worry I smoke. The extra sin tax I pay goes towards my health care should I ever need it. No free leoading here.

wakapak
11-08-2007, 00:01
Then I apologize for assuming you have never been. It's odd to me though, that you would call is voodoo and all if it helped you. As with every profession, there are good and not so good in chiropractic as well.
Whatever, believe what you want to believe.....

Rift Zone
11-08-2007, 00:04
Read my last response to rift.

Is that too complicated?Now, now... Play nice! A proper gent would attack a person's argument, not their intelligence.

I failed to notice where you explained your point. Kindly do again for me. I'm interested how my risks translate in to your risks... If I cannot pay for some catastophic event then my financial future is crushed. I'd be screwed. How is not assuming my risks? It would adversly affect ME! and me alone.

Sly
11-08-2007, 00:07
If ChinMusic doesn't like the fact that people that don't have or cannot afford health insurance maybe he should move to Canada.

chief
11-08-2007, 00:10
95% of Chiropractors shouldn't be considered medical physicians and are the closest to thing to voodoo medicine that is accepted by the American public. Their "preventative" services have proved to be worth squat. Many insurance companies won't pay them and is why they "don't accept" insurance.
Most truthful post!

Rift Zone
11-08-2007, 00:29
If ChinMusic doesn't like the fact that people that don't have or cannot afford health insurance... He seems to think it is a good idea to have it. Meh, it might be. Insurance companies are crooks just the same but still, I can't deny that it might be a good idea. But he's got another thing coming if he wants to make me out to be a punk for not having it. He's got a bigger thing coming if he wants to play the intelligence game. No offense ChinMusic, I got nothing against you, but you have no argument, only attacks. More power to ya.

mobileman
11-08-2007, 04:10
Now, now... Play nice! A proper gent would attack a person's argument, not their intelligence.

I failed to notice where you explained your point. Kindly do again for me. I'm interested how my risks translate in to your risks... If I cannot pay for some catastophic event then my financial future is crushed. I'd be screwed. How is not assuming my risks? It would adversly affect ME! and me alone.

When you cannot pay and your financial future is crushed, your bank account is empty, you are no longer able to work. What then? Your bankrupt. How do you pay your way in life? What do you eat? Where do you live for free? Who pays your taxes? Who pays for your medical expenses? What about all of life's expenses. SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO SUPPORT YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. ALL BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO BE SELFISH AND NOT BUY INSURANCE. I believe that's called WELFARE. Who pays for that? Well the answer is higher taxes, higher hospital and doctor costs, bigger donations to United Fund Organizations from those good and charitable folks who pay for their own health insurance. Should something happen to any of those good folks, they did pay their way. Their insurance covers their butts. I have lived long enough to see friends become seriously ill who had insurance and those who did not. We all say at one time or another, "that won't happen to me". You are betting on that. Well only fools take "foolish risks". Those are the facts that explain how your risks translate into my risks. We all end up paying for people like you.

EWS
11-08-2007, 04:52
You are wrong about insurance companies not paying for chiropractic care, you are also wrong about calling what they do "voodoo medicine". I spent six months in Haiti, I can tell you about voodoo medicine.

The fact Chiropractors do have nicer offices is what separates the majority of them from voodoo medicine. Most Chiropractors have more in common with phrenology, reflexology, magnet therapy, aromatherapy, acupuncture, and religious healers, than any form of science. Keep on paying for the regular placebo treatments if you like.

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 07:43
I've joined the FAA (Freeloaders Association of America). No health insurance for me. Anybody want to join me? Let's suck off the tax paying sheeple together.

woodsy
11-08-2007, 07:53
Health insurance? What is that?
For $5,000 a year, i'll take my chances.
Member of Freeloaders Association of America

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 08:56
My checks in the mail...... L.Wolf........I am now a member of.......

FREELOADERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA !!!!!

Been the best $45,456.89 a year for a membership I have spent in a long time.

:banana :D :banana :D

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:06
What some people dont understand is that half the country is trying to choose between eating and or paying for insurance.Of course ins would be great if we were all millioniars,but most of us are not.O ne should consider all the taxes we already pay at the pump,beer,or tobacco.My grandmother smoked for 86 years and my grandfarther for 88 years,and their taxes must of went to someone else.We already pay for everyone else.With the new ins. plans, all small business will bear the burden again,and will run the country out of business.Anyone calls us freeloaders,no pun intended,is probably trying to scam us into believing we need this and that,so they can lurn us into idenity theft,over billing,and charge people thousands who they never meet or treat,so who really are the freeloaders,not us. Washington is full of beggers and freeloaders that try to convinces us we are the freeloaders ,when we already pay most of their bills,now they want us to pay all of their bills.So who is the freeloader.

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 09:09
Hey pitdog, a little off topic but is Wrights Chicken Farm still in business up near you?

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:11
If insurance was about 200 to 300 dollars,for a thru hike,it would be worth it,but I bet it would be between 1000 or 2000 dollars,for a high risk activity.

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:12
Yea,its awsome,to bad it wasnt near the AT.LOL

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 09:16
Yea,its awsome,to bad it wasnt near the AT.LOL

i was born and raised in R.I. used to go there a lot.

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:22
How do you like damascus.

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 09:24
How do you like damascus.

lots better than RI :)

Sly
11-08-2007, 09:25
When you cannot pay and your financial future is crushed, your bank account is empty, you are no longer able to work. What then? Your bankrupt. How do you pay your way in life? What do you eat? Where do you live for free? Who pays your taxes? Who pays for your medical expenses? What about all of life's expenses. SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO SUPPORT YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. ALL BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO BE SELFISH AND NOT BUY INSURANCE. I believe that's called WELFARE. Who pays for that? Well the answer is higher taxes, higher hospital and doctor costs, bigger donations to United Fund Organizations from those good and charitable folks who pay for their own health insurance. Should something happen to any of those good folks, they did pay their way. Their insurance covers their butts. I have lived long enough to see friends become seriously ill who had insurance and those who did not. We all say at one time or another, "that won't happen to me". You are betting on that. Well only fools take "foolish risks". Those are the facts that explain how your risks translate into my risks. We all end up paying for people like you.

Talking to anyone specific or just ranting in general? :rolleyes:

ChinMusic
11-08-2007, 09:31
If ChinMusic doesn't like the fact that people that don't have or cannot afford health insurance maybe he should move to Canada.
Please find some place where I posted ANYTHING about those that cannot afford. I have consistently referred to those that have a choice.

I have even placed those words in bold, but to no avail.....

Re Canada: You have your logic reversed.....

ChinMusic
11-08-2007, 09:35
I can't deny that it might be a good idea. But he's got another thing coming if he wants to make me out to be a punk for not having it. He's got a bigger thing coming if he wants to play the intelligence game. No offense ChinMusic, I got nothing against you, but you have no argument, only attacks. More power to ya.
No arguments??? Paleeeeze The case has been made over and over.

ChinMusic
11-08-2007, 09:38
We all say at one time or another, "that won't happen to me". You are betting on that. Well only fools take "foolish risks". Those are the facts that explain how your risks translate into my risks. We all end up paying for people like you.
Nicely done.

Tipi Walter
11-08-2007, 09:46
New to the fray and too late probably to get a response from the spent multitude, but here it goes: If a person spends 300 dollars a month for health insurance for 50 years, and another guy without insurance pays 50 dollars a month for the rest of his life to pay off a huge medical bill, what's the difference? I'd say live without health insurance and when the emergency hits, start paying a small monthly payment against the bill.

As long as you're paying something the creditors can't seize your house or car, etc? Or can they?

BTW, when driving in Chapel Hill NC years ago, I saw the Blue Cross/Blue Shield building and it was an obscenity of EXCESS in dollars spent TO BUILD, a glass and mirror mansion edifice constructed with, you got it, your monthly premiums.

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:47
I sell logs to cananda and they pay 42 cents on the dollar directly,in conversion to canadian,and we pay 50 cents already,indirectly,so whos better off,and whos paying.

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 09:48
New to the fray and too late probably to get a response from the spent multitude, but here it goes: If a person spends 300 dollars a month for health insurance for 50 years, and another guy without insurance pays 50 dollars a month for the rest of his life to pay off a huge medical bill, what's the difference? I'd say live without health insurance and when the emergency hits, start paying a small monthly payment against the bill.

As long as you're paying something the creditors can't seize your house or car, etc? Or can they?

BTW, when driving in Chapel Hill NC years ago, I saw the Blue Cross/Blue Shield building and it was an obscenity of EXCESS in dollars spent TO BUILD, a glass and mirror mansion edifice constructed with, you got it, your monthly premiums.

insurance salesman/companies are worse scumbags than lawyers :)

EWS
11-08-2007, 09:51
As long as you're paying something the creditors can't seize your house or car, etc? Or can they?


Not if your payment satisfies the agreement. If you need credit, it could seriously hurt you though.

pitdog
11-08-2007, 09:58
I pay my business ins. in advance and it is not reported to the creditors,but if I missed a payment,remember I pay in full,it would be reported. This is what were dealing with.If ins. coverage for hiking the AT was 200 to 300 it would be worth it,but its higher.

Tipi Walter
11-08-2007, 10:02
Not if your payment satisfies the agreement. If you need credit, it could seriously hurt you though.

Uh, what agreement? You get sick, you go to the hospital, you go home, you get a bill, you start paying 10 bucks a month. I've been living in a tipi too long so throw me a bone here.

EWS
11-08-2007, 10:03
You should settle/agree on a minimum payment per month.

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 10:06
Please find some place where I posted ANYTHING about those that cannot afford. I have consistently referred to those that have a choice.

I have even placed those words in bold, but to no avail.....

Re Canada: You have your logic reversed.....

HHmmmm, good point ChinMusic, if Canada is able to supply its people with free health care, shouldnt the US be able to do the same? Oh wait, then the insurance companies & lawyers wouldnt be able to screw people over and make billions extra for the Gov't. Its not the medical crap that cost money, its the multi - million dollar insurance rates that cause doctors to go out of business. Its the lawyers suing for every little dam thing that causes the prices to go so high. fixing broken bones and treating cancer are cheap.
Funny its the insurance and lawyers that cause people to "need" insurance to pay for hospital bills. The actual treatments are cheap.

Maybe you should cry about the fact that the only ones who get free health care in america are the non tax payn crimminals. You know the real free-loaders, who not only dont pay taxes they cost us (tax payers) money through their crimes. HHmmmm, let them rape, murder, steal....... then reward them with free health care. The Gov't waste more then enough of our tax money on these worthless people to give health insurance to the worthwhile/honest/tax payn US people.

My reason for choosing to not have insurance is not due to the above. I just wanted to see your thoughts on the above.

EWS
11-08-2007, 10:10
HHmmmm, good point ChinMusic, if Canada is able to supply its people with free health care, shouldnt the US be able to do the same? Oh wait, then the insurance companies & lawyers wouldnt be able to screw people over and make billions extra for the Gov't. Its not the medical crap that cost money, its the multi - million dollar insurance rates that cause doctors to go out of business. Its the lawyers suing for every little dam thing that causes the prices to go so high. fixing broken bones and treating cancer are cheap.
Funny its the insurance and lawyers that cause people to "need" insurance to pay for hospital bills. The actual treatments are cheap.

Maybe you should cry about the fact that the only ones who get free health care in america are the non tax payn crimminals. You know the real free-loaders, who not only dont pay taxes they cost us (tax payers) money through their crimes. HHmmmm, let them rape, murder, steal....... then reward them with free health care. The Gov't waste more then enough of our tax money on these worthless people to give health insurance to the worthwhile/honest/tax payn US people.

Exactly.

woodsy
11-08-2007, 10:15
I just finished paying off a ER visit after 3 years of monthly payments of $35.00. Was I overcharged? You bet I was. Did I pay it off? Yes I did. Was it cheaper than buying insurance over the years? 100 times cheaper.
Just because one doesn't have or can't afford health insurance doesn't mean they don't pay their outrageous bills!

pitdog
11-08-2007, 10:16
Maybe instead of dogs on the trail,we should vote on ins issues,and send it to our representives.Maybe they will take our interests,instead if ins companies interests,to the people.

The Old Fhart
11-08-2007, 10:18
Wrongway_08-"Its the lawyers suing for every little dam thing that causes the prices to go so high."Correction: it is PEOPLE suing and they are just using the services of lawyers. Unless a lawyer is party to a suit, they can't sue.

Interestingly the theory of frivolous law suits is quickly forgotten when you get screwed and need some wrong corrected. :-?

rafe
11-08-2007, 10:20
Here's what nobody's saying: the "free market" model doesn't work when it comes to health. Accidents and diseases happen, even to folks who do everything "right." It's a matter of society's values. We in the USA assume there will always be money available to fight stupid wars and pay off greedy defense contractors. Yet we're on our own when it comes to health care. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The USA is about the only first-world country without universal health care. Go see "Sicko."

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 10:23
I just finished paying off a ER visit after 3 years of monthly payments of $35.00. Was I overcharged? You bet I was. Did I pay it off? Yes I did. Was it cheaper than buying insurance over the years? 100 times cheaper.
Just because one doesn't have or can't afford health insurance doesn't mean they don't pay their outrageous bills!

Dont argue the point you paid the bill.
Dont argue the point you didnt need nsurance to do it.
Dont argue the point your a tax payer.
Dont argue the point you have done nothing wrong.
It wont matter, you are now one of the millions of proud

Freeloaders Association of America

Members! Welcome aboard fellow freeloader!! :)

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 10:25
Here's what nobody's saying: the "free market" model doesn't work when it comes to health. Accidents and diseases happen, even to folks who do everything "right." It's a matter of society's values. We in the USA assume there will always be money available to fight stupid wars and pay off greedy defense contractors. Yet we're on our own when it comes to health care. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The USA is about the only first-world country without universal health care. Go see "Sicko."

10-4 good buddy!!

pitdog
11-08-2007, 10:25
Remember we already pay 50 cents on the dollar,indirectly.So, tell us how we will live,by paying more.

EWS
11-08-2007, 10:28
Remember we already pay 50 cents on the dollar,indirectly.So, tell us how we will live,by paying more.For what? Show me where I can read about it please.

woodsy
11-08-2007, 10:34
Oh, forgot tell ya what the ER visit was for
Had a small piece of metal on my eyeball
The procedure took 15 minutes
The eye test....follow the PA's finger back and forth...left to right $200.00
Total bill $1200.00+ ,....... BS!

pitdog
11-08-2007, 10:38
This information is currently available,however,if you account for all your taxes paid,I mean all,we pay about 50 cents on the dollar.I deal with canadians selling timber,and they pay 42 cents on the dollar directly to their gov,and they recieve ins..We pay 50 and we recieve noda.

The Old Fhart
11-08-2007, 10:39
Cost of gas to drive to the hospital..$2.95
The eye test..$200.00
Total bill..$1200.00
Ability to retain bifocal vision..priceless!;)

Johnny Thunder
11-08-2007, 10:42
Wow! This has gone pretty far.

I just wanted to toss a tidbit in here from inside Murda'City...

In urban areas (and probably other areas too) we have a problem where hospital ER's are overloaded and overworked because it is illegal for Hospitals to refuse care when the patient is treated for an "emergency". So, if someone doesn't have insurance, or other means to foot their bill they will often wait until their condition reaches crisis level and then descend upon the ER for what becomes essentially discout (or sometimes free) care.

First, who pays the vic?

The insured and uninsured. Because hospitals end up giving away their services they must recoup the cost of doing business elsewhere. Think of how a restaurant would be forced to increase their prices if a bunch of people walked out on their bills.

Next, what does this do to hospical care?

Because the ER's are being used to treat preventable illness there is a bottleneck in triage. So, when you come in from a firey car wreck and the ER is full of people with boils, tonsilitis (advanced strep), bronchitis (advanced cold), etc, you'll still receive service...it'll just be from a team of medical professionals stretched thin from treating preventable emergencies.

Maybe there should be some sort of mandatory insurance...or free clinics for treating non-emergencies in the same fashion that the ER treats real emergencies. Because, regardless of the rhetoric our current insurace system does not work out for everyone. And if something is going to essentially be 99.9% necessary to live in our society, well, it should benefit everyone.

pitdog
11-08-2007, 10:44
Good point,but their are more hidden fees,like our auto ins..We are all going to die;however,most of us just want to live in comfort.Thank you all.Good day.

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 10:44
Correction: it is PEOPLE suing and they are just using the services of lawyers. Unless a lawyer is party to a suit, they can't sue.

Interestingly the theory of frivolous law suits is quickly forgotten when you get screwed and need some wrong corrected. :-?

In a way..... lawyers sue home owners on behalf of the crimminal who stubbed his toe stealing a computer from the home owner.

When the crack-head dies in a operation and a lawyer get the crack-heads family 30 million due to the hospital only having 5 doctors working on the worthless crack-head instead of 6 doctorors.......that makes the lawyer the problem! Happens all the time.
Doctors are only doctors, they are not some God that can fix everything. But a lawyer treats them as such and sues them for every dam thing.
I would guess that only 1 out of every 300 law suits filed by a patient have some amount of cause and out of those that have cause maybe only 1 out of 100 might deserve a real settlement.

It would be different if lawyers didnt abuse the system.

Have I been in the position to sue people over the years (as in the eyeys of a lawyer) YES, many times. Would the money have been nice? YES Have I ever, NO. Why? Because I wouldnt have been able to look myself in the mirrior every day. It would have been wrong. I would have "gotten away with it", in the eyes of the law and lawyers but it would have been wrong to do.
Thats the difference, lawyers are out to pad that bill, the thought is "oh well - thats what the companies/people have insurance for". Its wrong to do!

Not sayn I would never sue some one, but ONLY if it was needed due to the actions of the people. I would not sue just because someone hit me, bumped into me while walking down the street, called me a few bad names or hit my car with theirs (as long as he wasnt drunk). It would have to be something major.

Lawyers are only out to make money.

EWS
11-08-2007, 10:46
Oh, forgot tell ya what the ER visit was for
Had a small piece of metal on my eyeball
The procedure took 15 minutes
The eye test....follow the PA's finger back and forth...left to right $200.00
Total bill $1200.00+ BS!

Small rock stuck in eye in Croatia $13 in the ER.
************
Ingrown toenail in Honduras $20 in the ER.
************
Item lodged against my ear drum in Panama $8 in the ER.
************
Multiple ear infections in Panama $0-7 in the ER including the prescriptions.
************
Teeth cleaned, xrayed, and cavity filled $60 in Guatemala.
************
Check up, including blood work, in South Africa $80 2x normal on Sunday in the ER.
************
Dislocated Shoulder $30 including pain killer in Slovenia.
************
etc., etc., etc.
I know third world emergency rooms and they're cheap.

Rift Zone
11-08-2007, 11:24
I've joined the FAA (Freeloaders Association of America). No health insurance for me. Anybody want to join me? Let's suck off the tax paying sheeple together.Sign me up!

If my choices come down to getting raped by the American Health Insurance racket or you having to suffer IF something happens to me then either pray for my safety or vote for a better health care system.

woodsy
11-08-2007, 11:39
Cost of gas to drive to the hospital..$2.95
The eye test..$200.00
Total bill..$1200.00
Ability to retain bifocal vision..priceless!;)
Evidently the hospital thought it was priceless too
It was a slow night at the ER, guess i got elected to cover the operating costs that night.
Had the bill been even semi-reasonable, I would have payed it right off.
Seeing they stuck it to me, they had to wait 3 years to get payed off, end of rant.

rafe
11-08-2007, 11:53
It's a matter of priorities. Seems there's always enough money to wage war, but strangely, not enough for health. From a news item this morning:

$9 trillion: Amount of publicly held U.S. debt the first time ever it has breached $9 trillion. In September, President George W. Bush signed a measure to increase the debt limit ceiling to $9.815 trillion from $8.965 trillion, allowing the government to keep issuing debt.

Blissful
11-08-2007, 14:05
It's a matter of priorities. Seems there's always enough money to wage war, but strangely, not enough for health.


We're off to see the political forum...
...the political forum we go...

Pretty pleeze.

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 14:09
9 trillion, screw it I am leading by example, if our boy Bush can just say screw it - so can I!!!! Hmmm, being that I have $00.00 debt now, I better start working towards my fare share of the $9.815 trillion that I should be helping towards.
Bush must be right, he says hes never wrong. Someone (not me) kept voting the useless turd back in - so I guess the american peole think he is right also. It must be the way to go.. :)

Hmm... what to get first, I think I'll start with some cheap free flu shots and work my way up to welfare, I dont have kids but am pretty sure with the right paper work I can get some child aid benifits - incase I have some in the furture, then some free cancer screenings, a coulple of useless visits to the E.R. (I have had a cough for more then 2 days.... time to panic!) ..... Wow, I am starting to feel better already.

*my comments are not meant to down on anyone needing the services that I mentioned.

For real, there is no excuse for this. Its not funny. Bush should be hangin his head in shame. Bush has let everyone down. I know he has helpers but he is in control for the most part. He could stop 90% of the abuse quickly.

wrongway_08
11-08-2007, 14:10
We're off to see the political forum...
...the political forum we go...

Pretty pleeze.

Sorry, your right, we are getting way off topic. I'll stop on the bush/war stuff. :o Sorry.

Back to what we had going.....

Lone Wolf
11-08-2007, 14:13
Back to what we had going.....

it's pretty much the end of the discussion. just the same old bleating from the insurance sheeples

The Solemates
11-08-2007, 14:38
I don't pay for internet. But don't worry I smoke. The extra sin tax I pay goes towards my health care should I ever need it. No free leoading here.

and guess who is going to pay for your $100,000+ hospital bill when you get lung cancer? ...ultimately, other insurance payers like myself.

Rift Zone
11-08-2007, 15:03
There is no question that the insurance business is out for itself.So you admit to being a sucker?
The facts are, Uncle Sucker will bail you out You are too kind.

Rift Zone
11-08-2007, 15:12
and guess who is going to pay ...ultimately, other insurance payers like myself.Have the laws changed! If you percieve my lack of health insurance as a threat to you then do something about it. My chioce has everything to do with refusing to empower a faulty system. Whining at me doesn't change the fact that you are defending a messed up system. Label me as you wish, except for "sucker" -that one doesn't quite fit.

The Solemates
11-08-2007, 18:19
Have the laws changed! If you percieve my lack of health insurance as a threat to you then do something about it. My chioce has everything to do with refusing to empower a faulty system. Whining at me doesn't change the fact that you are defending a messed up system. Label me as you wish, except for "sucker" -that one doesn't quite fit.

considering i only pay about $1000 a year for family insurance, I'm not complaining at all. historically, the company I work for has always had some of the lowest premiums in the country.

Panzer1
11-08-2007, 22:09
1) I got basic life insurance = 1 times my salary
2) I got supplemental life insurance = $100,000
3) I got medical insurance
4) I got disibility insurance
5) I got dental insurance
6) I got vision insurance
7) I got house insurance
8) I got auto insurance

I work for an insurance company.

Panzer

Panzer1
11-11-2007, 21:20
I hear that half of all bankruptcy is due to large medical bills. So what a lot of people do is:
1) they don't carry medical insurance
2) when they get sick and have a very large medical bill they just file for bankruptcy.
3) Bill collectors can no longer hassle them.
4) when they get sick again, they just go to the hospital. Hospitals can not turn them away, that's the law.
5) Hospitals are permitted to pass on the cost of those who do not pay to the next patients. That's called "cost shifting". its legal and people who do pay their medical bills have larger medical bills because of it.

Panzer

Sly
11-11-2007, 21:45
and guess who is going to pay for your $100,000+ hospital bill when you get lung cancer? ...ultimately, other insurance payers like myself.

Wah, wah wah... complain to someone that cares. It's a benefit of your job that you get health care, it isn't mine. Be happy for what you have, not what I don't.

rafe
11-11-2007, 22:15
4) when they get sick again, they just go to the hospital. Hospitals can not turn them away, that's the law.

What law would that be? AFAIK, you will get some kind of care if you show up at the ER. Chances are, in that case, you'll be treated by an intern or resident, rather than a licensed physician.

But I'm not aware of hospitals being required to provide (for example) chemotherapy for folks with cancer.

The situation does vary by locale, that much I know (eg. you're better off, in this case, in MA than in CA.)

Sly
11-11-2007, 22:53
What law would that be? AFAIK, you will get some kind of care if you show up at the ER. Chances are, in that case, you'll be treated by an intern or resident, rather than a licensed physician.


That's right, they'll take care of you in ER if you don't have the means to pay but it's a far cry from health insurance or health care on an on going basis.

Panzer1
11-12-2007, 00:27
My sister in law got sick. She was in the hospital for 7 weeks. She almost died. Some kind of virus that went to her heart. She's a lot better now. She doesn't have medical insurance or a job or any assets. Her hospital bill was over $100,000. She doesn't have to pay anything. Worked out some kind of deal with the hospital. The state is going to pay part of her bill, the hospital is going to forget about the rest.

They think she caught the virus from another person.

Panzer

EWS
11-12-2007, 01:00
1)Medical $1000 deductible in the US, None outside
2)Dental no deductible
3)Vision no deductible
4)Long Term Disability 60% of my salary
5)AD&D $400k
6)Life Insurance $350K

Cost $1100 me a year, which is about what two dentists visits, an optometrists visit, and a check-up would cost.

vaporjourney
11-12-2007, 01:26
When I got Lyme Disease in PA, I was happy to have insurance to cover the cost of the doctor visit and prescription. You just never know...

jesse
11-12-2007, 10:52
It's a matter of priorities. Seems there's always enough money to wage war, but strangely, not enough for health. From a news item this morning:

National defense is mandated in the Constitution. Health care is not.

Sly
11-12-2007, 11:10
National defense is mandated in the Constitution. Health care is not.

We're on offense, not defense.

jesse
11-12-2007, 11:12
the best defense

dessertrat
11-12-2007, 11:20
If insurance was about 200 to 300 dollars,for a thru hike,it would be worth it,but I bet it would be between 1000 or 2000 dollars,for a high risk activity.

They aren't even going to ask what activity he is doing. He could sit on the couch and play nintendo for six months, or hike the trail for six months, and the actuaries at Blue Cross wouldn't care. (Although for a young person, there would be less risk, in the short term, in playing nintendo).

Sly
11-12-2007, 11:23
the best defense

Sorry, I think you have it backwards. Defense is the best offense.

Panzer1
11-12-2007, 22:28
some people precieve that they have lower than average chance of getting sick so they decide to not buy insurance.

still others precieve that they have a higher than average chance of getting sick so they decide to buy insurance.

most people fall in the middle and don't really know if they are going to get sick or not. They buy insurance if they can afford it or not buy it if they can't afford it.

Panzer

mosyre
11-20-2007, 12:59
Hi,
I'm a parent who did the shipping & stuff. Ignore if U will.
Schofield got lucky this past year (07 nobo) made it to Conn., hitched a ride to Northern NYS & found me there working for a week, took him home to VA & spent 4 days in hospital for Lyme. Still has a little bells palsy from it, (20 years old last month) & back in college for a couple semesters. What could I have done with 25K worth of bills. We would lose everything we own.
I think insurance is a HUGE rip off & hate having to pay. Until now when we needed it. So.........
Bite the perverbial bullet & pay da man da money. Sheet happens. Oh, yeah - Use both types of insecticide as soon as U hit VA - one topical & the other for your clothes. He tried tons of garlic & failed. The early settlers had other problems, but not this one.
Peace out/
mosyre

Panzer1
11-20-2007, 16:56
Yea, everyone thinks insurance is a ripoff. Then why do so many people have 8 insurance policies??

1) I got basic life insurance = 1 times my salary
2) I got supplemental life insurance = $100,000
3) I got medical insurance
4) I got disibility insurance
5) I got dental insurance
6) I got vision insurance
7) I got house insurance
8) I got auto insurance


Panzer

ps my wife also has 8 policies counting the house insurance which we share.