Questions for Bivy users...

[Passionphish]

I have recently started looking at using a bivy for my thru hike. I was a strict tent user till recently. I would like to tarp it. But I need a little more coverage than just my down bag. I don't want to break the bank and since I am hiking with my mother and daughter I am comparing the weight to a Tarptent Rainshadow three man.

If I go with the bivy. I will be on my own and the ladies will share a Squall. There are some advantages to having a tarp handy in bad weather tent or not.

My stats: 220lbs, 6 ft tall, wide shoulders (50-52 depending on who made the jacket). I'm using the Big Agnes Horse Thief for my bag. I move around in my sleep and am a side sleeper to boot! I'm not asking for much huh?

What do you guys think? I don't want to break the bank. Think less than $200. Preferably under $150.
What are the pros and cons? What wouldn't I think to wonder about until 1 am on a cold morning? What questions should I be asking? Any suggestions at all!

[Jack Tarlin]

The pro is that you'll have more coverage, netting, etc. than you would in a tarp.

The con is that bivvies tend to be very confining, even to the point of clautrophobia. This is especially the case for larger sized people like you or me.

Personally, even if you find a commmodious over-sized bivy, I don't think it'll weigh much more than a good lightweight one-person tent would weigh.....and you'll be a helluva lot more comfortable in the tent. The ammount of time one spends in their camping shelter is significant. Paying a minor weight penalty in order to truly be comfortable for six months is well worth it, and since most bivvies are a tight squeeze for normal-sized people, personally, I'd consider other options.

[Doughnut]

With your size and sleeping habits, I'd go with a light 2 person tent.
There's still room for gear in nasty weather, and you can change clothes inside the tent.
Years ago I had a super light bivy in AK, (little more than a nylon coffin) after one trip, having to climb out of my bag and outside to get dressed, and not being able to sit up, I ditched the bivy for a 2 man tent.

In a 6 month hike, you'll have it all, wonderful days and star filled nights, freezing rain, bugs, and thunder storms, I don't think I'd compromise too much on the tent.
Plus, for the money, figure 6 months, 180 nights, say $2 per night, pretty good rate.......

[Just a Hiker]

I bought a used bivy just to try it, and they are very confining, and the one I used even created condensation which was a drag. At 6'1'' and 210lbs I think I am just too big to be comfortable in a bivy. You can have mine if you want it.

Just Jim

[bigcranky]

Here I go flogging the picture again (gotta get my stats up :-? ), but you can make a very light, very nice bivy.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15028&catid=member&imageuser=266

This weighs 8 ounces using silnylon for the floor and Momentum 90 and mesh for the top. It was purposefully made large enough for me and my winter bag. With a 6x10 foot tarp, I have plenty of room for me and all my gear, and the total shelter weight is 24 ounces -- tarp, bivy, lines, stakes. I got all the materials from thru-hiker.com.

Now, you can get the Gossamer Gear spin-tarp-tent for 24 ounces, which is a 2-person tarp tent, and a very nice one at that. In my very humble and personal opinion, the tarp+bivy combo is more versatile, since I can use them individually. I can sleep out under the stars with or without the bivy (usually with just to have the ground sheet), use the bivy in a buggy or mousy shelter, or use the tarp if rain threatens. The bivy also adds some wind protection on those very cold windy nights.

But the final decision is personal. A Tarptent is easy and fast to set up, provides lots of protected space from bugs and rain, etc (but you already know this). I do like to stay in shelters on occasion, and the bivy is a great addition.

Good luck.

[Passionphish]

BIGCRANKY:
That is a nice bivy!!!! It looks comfortable as all get out!

JUST A HIKER:
Where are you located? Might be able to save on shipping... I want to at least give it a weekend's worth of a try.

ALL:
I understand about getting out in the cold to change clothes. I once had to do that on a mountain top in late January. (Note to self: don't go camping with a woman you aren't sleeping with in winter). Anyway, for the adaptability, I think the bivy is worth a try. We may go with the three man tarptent after it is all said and done. But I have time and it is cooling here. I'm gonna give it a go and see what I am willing to put up with. Thanks guys!

Any other thoughts?

[Just a Hiker]

Hey there Passionphish. Here are some details on the bivy I have. It's a Black Diamond Lightsabre in case you want to look it up on the internet. It's at my sister's house, but I can get it quickly. I am in Maine though.

Just Jim

[take-a-knee]

I'd just get another tarptent. I have an old Early Winters goretex bivy that has keep me dry under a GI poncho a lot. If it is warm and the bugs are bad there is no escaping them, you can't read in the bivy, at least not mine. I also have that issue goretex bivy/tent. It has NO ventilation, you'll die in it on a warm night, you have to slither in and out of the thing. The door(hatch) dumps water inside if you open it in the rain, so you need to set up a tarp/poncho over the opening. Did I mention I'll probably buy a tarptent?

[Tinker]

Mountain Laurel Designs has some nice handmade bivys. I have one of their waterproof bottom/water repellant top models which stops splash and wind driven spray under a small tarp. Forgot what I paid for it.

[Miner]

I use a Titanium Goat bivy that I paid <$60. I prefer using the bivy and sleeping out in the open rather then in a tent. I haven't even bothered to set up my Tarp since last April though I always carry it.

However, I noticed that TiG are currently doing a redesign on their Bivies and won't have the new model out until sometime in November. However, Josh has been willing to do some custom work in the past so you might try contacting him and seeing what he can do for you.

[Dirtygaiters]

Personally, even if you find a commmodious over-sized bivy, I don't think it'll weigh much more than a good lightweight one-person tent would weigh.....and you'll be a helluva lot more comfortable in the tent. The ammount of time one spends in their camping shelter is significant. Paying a minor weight penalty in order to truly be comfortable for six months is well worth it, and since most bivvies are a tight squeeze for normal-sized people, personally, I'd consider other options.

Consider the Mountain Laurel Designs Alpine Bivy (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=40&osCsid=b6a69fcaab4eec3fefabbf9ee78d3670). It's a fully waterproof and breathable bivy that weighs 10 ounces. The dimensions aren't exactly over-sized, but I understand they can be customized. Anyway, there's a misconception that fully waterproof/breathable bivies aren't very lightweight. For example, loook at the Outdoor Research Aurora bivy, which weighs 23 ounces. That's the same weight as the Tarptent Contrail! You just need to remember that OR isn't a company that is overly concerned with ultra light gear like MLD is. The downside is that if you want to get in and out of a waterproof/breathable bivy sack in a pouring rain, then you basically need a small tarp at least to cover the head area, or else some water is going to get inside the bivy. However, for areas out West, where rains infrequently last longer than an hour, these bivies are perfect.

[Dirtygaiters]

The ammount of time one spends in their camping shelter is significant.

That's completely dependent on the hiker. On hikes where I want to make big miles, I don't spend a lot of time in my shelter at all, and when I do I'm going to sleep, sleeping, or waking up. I don't use a bivy, but I could see the benefits of something like the MLD Alpine bivy.

[dloome]

Instead of looking at waterproof breathable bivies which tend to be heavy and condensation prone, check out some of the very light water resistant ones like the Bozeman Mountain Work Vap'r or the Oware ones sold at BPL:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/s/Sleep%20Systems/index.html

I have Vap'r and love it. Great addition to my tarp: Adds a few degrees of warmth, keeps rain spray/mist at bay and eliminates condensation on my down bag in most situations. Also nice on really warm nights since you can sleep comfortably out of your bag without bugs crawling on you.

I've only used it with my Phantom 32 bag, but it certainly seems big enough to accomodate lofty winter bags as well.

[Passionphish]

I was wondering... What about a good tarp and a bug net style bivy. Then in the cold I can just bring the tarp in tight. I have a thirty degree Big Agnes, the Horse Thief I think. I sleep warm but can wear plenty of clothing. I actually sleep better that way. What do you guys think?

We're leaving March 31st.

[Dirtygaiters]

Instead of looking at waterproof breathable bivies which tend to be heavy and condensation prone, check out some of the very light water resistant ones like the Bozeman Mountain Work Vap'r or the Oware ones sold at BPL:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/s/Sleep%20Systems/index.html

I have Vap'r and love it. Great addition to my tarp: Adds a few degrees of warmth, keeps rain spray/mist at bay and eliminates condensation on my down bag in most situations. Also nice on really warm nights since you can sleep comfortably out of your bag without bugs crawling on you.

I've only used it with my Phantom 32 bag, but it certainly seems big enough to accomodate lofty winter bags as well.


Again, how is a 10 ounce wp/b bivy heavier than a 5 ounce DWR bivy plus a 5 ounce tarp??? (speaking in bare minimums with the weights, of course)

I'm not going against what you're saying. A DWR bivy + a tarp is definitely a more condensationproof and more versatile system than a single wp/b bivy, and it's what I prefer, however it's not comparably lighter.

[minnesotasmith]

Skip the bivy, and get a tarptent. Mine, a Virga II with floor, is only 2 pounds. It's narrow enough to set up on a trail directly if need be. You'll still need something with a roof if you can't get into a shelter when rain/snow is an issue. I use a tiny/light (about 6 oz.) bug netting in shelters, where I can't use the tent, of course.

[High Altitude]

I like the tarp and water resistent/breathable bivy combo. Lots of options, light weight and low volume.

Use the tarp at lunch in the rain or for shade, bivy only for insect protection in shelters, both at night outside of shelters for rain protection or bivy only on clear nights for a great view but you still get bug protection. The tarp gives you lots of ventilation in the rain and you can cook under one.

Get a poncho/tarp and you will have rain gear, pack cover, shelter all covered for around 18 oz with the bivy (using sil nylon) Take a wind shirt. They will fight off the rain just long enough to get everything setup before the shirt wets out. Even if you prefer a dedicated rain jacket the tarp/bivy combo is still lighter and more versatile then a 1 person tarptent.

[Passionphish]

I have found that the Mountain Laurel Design Tarp, I forget which one exactly (it weighs 8.6-8.8 oz) and their Bug net bivy, or the Titanium Goat bivy get me everything I need for around a pound. I can't find a Tarptent, or anything else for that matter, that can beat that combo for weight or versitility.

Although I would much rather take a DWR bivy than a waterproof one. I haven't seen a DWR. But then I keep googling "bivy" or some version of it and I'm getting the same few manufacturers with the same options....

[minnesotasmith]

It's a bivy that IMO needs a roof if you're getting serious rain/snow, not my tarptent. I've been in major thunderstorms in my tent, and only gotten my stuff (that was against the sides) a little damp. Plus, it has really good ventilation, with no-see-um mesh, so NO bugs. :D