View Full Version : Logistics of re-supplying?
Beerandpotatoes
10-30-2007, 21:18
I'm considering attempting a thru hike of the AT next year after I graduate college. One thing I don't understand about thru hiking the AT is resuppying. I haven't done very many long distance hikes (partly because I could never figure out all the logistics of them), but when I have done long distance hikes with a resupply on the trip, I had a friend help me out by meeting up at a certain trailhead midway along the trail and dropping off the food and stove fuel I needed.
From what I've read on this site, I get the idea that most thru hikers don't carry more than 3-4 days worth of food at a time. I've also gleaned that it's possible to either prepackage all your food and have it mailed to you to post offices or else to buy all your food in grocery stores.
What I'm wondering is how far out of the way (how much road walking) is it generally to get to a town when re-supplying is needed? Are there enough towns 1-4 miles from the trail? are they usually further away than that? Is hitch hiking often necessary to get to a town to resupply?
bigcranky
10-30-2007, 21:22
On the front page of this site, look on the left side for the Articles section, and find the Resupply article.
Lots of towns near the trail. Many hikers hitch into town and back. Easy enough to resupply while on the trail.
Lone Wolf
10-30-2007, 21:25
I'm considering attempting a thru hike of the AT next year after I graduate college. One thing I don't understand about thru hiking the AT is resuppying. I haven't done very many long distance hikes (partly because I could never figure out all the logistics of them), but when I have done long distance hikes with a resupply on the trip, I had a friend help me out by meeting up at a certain trailhead midway along the trail and dropping off the food and stove fuel I needed.
From what I've read on this site, I get the idea that most thru hikers don't carry more than 3-4 days worth of food at a time. I've also gleaned that it's possible to either prepackage all your food and have it mailed to you to post offices or else to buy all your food in grocery stores.
What I'm wondering is how far out of the way (how much road walking) is it generally to get to a town when re-supplying is needed? Are there enough towns 1-4 miles from the trail? are they usually further away than that? Is hitch hiking often necessary to get to a town to resupply?
get one of the guide books, hitchhiking is easy. no road walking required
Beerandpotatoes
10-30-2007, 21:38
On the front page of this site, look on the left side for the Articles section, and find the Resupply article.
Lots of towns near the trail. Many hikers hitch into town and back. Easy enough to resupply while on the trail.
Thanks I did see the Resupply article. What I was wondering about that the article didn't talk about for each town is how far from the trail are most towns? Are we talking about less than 4 miles on average or is it definitely a hitch hiking thing?
I realize that I could pore over maps for a few hours and have a reasonable answer to my question, but I don't have maps.
Mostly what L. Wolf said, though my luck hitching isn't quite 100%. Occasionally you end up walking. Shuttles can also be arranged in some cases (or are provided by hostels or motels in town.) Sometimes free, sometimes for a nominal fee.
Thanks I did see the Resupply article. What I was wondering about that the article didn't talk about for each town is how far from the trail are most towns? Are we talking about less than 4 miles on average or is it definitely a hitch hiking thing?
Distances vary. The ALDHA guide gives distances from trailheads to towns. Obviously that distance varies (it can even be zero. :D)
Beerandpotatoes
10-30-2007, 21:45
Distances vary. The ALDHA guide gives distances from trailheads to towns. Obviously that distance varies (it can even be zero. :D)
Thanks. Is this (https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=564&compid=1) the ALDHA guide you're referring to?
Cookerhiker
10-30-2007, 21:50
Here's the link to the on-line Companion (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm). If you're thruhiking, it's worthwhile to order the hard copy from the ATC (http://www.appalachiantrail.org) but keep checking on-line for updates.
This recent thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28701) discussed pro and cons of mail drops.
Have a good hike!
Cookerhiker
10-30-2007, 21:57
BTW, while on a long section hike in '05, I met a guy from Springfield, MO thruhiking. His trail name was Shakedown (photo) (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7204&catid=searchresults&searchid=10826) but I didn't get is real name.
Blissful
10-30-2007, 21:58
I really recommend you get a book (the ALDHA companion) if you are seriously thinking about this. Or download last year's online to begin planning. It makes sense so you can start looking at logistics.
Jack's article on resupply is helpful, but it helps too if you have the data for the trail alongside it so you know what he is referring to. I did a mix of resupply - I used mail drops - thirty of them, and I resupplied perishables. It's not hard to do, but having a book helps you plan.
As for hitching, that can vary like anything. Shortest hitch was 1 minute. Longest, 40. And there are people who will ask why you don't walk to the town, etc if you are walking the trail. Like it doesn't make sense to them or something. I tell them that road walking really hurts my feet. And sometimes it is dangerous with traffic. (and it does hurt after being on the trail) :)
Appalachian Tater
10-30-2007, 23:30
Beerandpotatoes, since you hike other trails long distance, just as a caution, don't expect post offices in towns on other trails not frequently thru-hiked to understand what general delivery is or to hold a package until you pick it up. They're supposed to know about these things but sometimes don't and will send your package back because they simply don't know what to do with it and don't understand "General Delivery: please hold for hiker on the xxx trail". I don't think there are every problems like that on the A.T. but don't assume the concept of maildrops will necessarily work elsewhere.
And a lot of A.T. hikers carry 6 or even 8 or 9 days worth of food at times.
And a lot of A.T. hikers carry 6 or even 8 or 9 days worth of food at times.
Really? When would that be? When they're feeling foolish or just self destructive?
Really? When would that be? When they're feeling foolish or just self destructive?
The Hundred Mile wilderness, maybe, if one ignored White House Landing. (WHL wasn't an option for some of us old geezers.)
Bigby 2007
10-31-2007, 00:28
I have to say, this was my biggest concern starting out too. I'd recommend carrying a guidebook, but the biggest lesson I learned was that it's ridiculously easy to resupply 99% of the time. Even without a book, you can pick up from other hikers/word of mouth/registers where the best places to go in will be, and just go day-by-day. Don't try to plan it all out in advance, as my buddy Bytecode likes to say "AT plans are written in jell-o." Have faith, and have fun!
Bigby
Appalachian Tater
10-31-2007, 01:13
The Hundred Mile wilderness, maybe, if one ignored White House Landing. (WHL wasn't an option for some of us old geezers.)
I ate at WHL but didn't resupply there. I also had planned not to resupply in the Smokies. There were some other places I decided it was better to carry extra food rather than resupply, for instance, I didn't resupply in Port Clinton.
Really? When would that be? When they're feeling foolish or just self destructive?
Well, as I recall, my longest days between resupply was Glencliff to Gorham, and 100 miles of Maine. And if I were to do it again, I would resupply in Crawford Notch, thus reducing the amount I carried through the White Mountains.
I met a couple of seemingly sane hikers this summer who were carrying very heavy food loads. Both had "plausible" reasons.
One was a section hiker (trail name Phoenix) whom I met at the north end of SNP. He was on a very limited budget (both $ and time) and wanted to avoid town stops at all costs. Said he was carrying two weeks of food. He also had two dogs with him.
The other was a semi-retired fellow whom I met on the last night at SNP at Calf Mtn. Shelter. He had a very different story. He'd done (or attempted) a hike in SNP some years back where a storm caused all the stores & waypoints in SNP to close. So this time he was "playing it safe" by carrying all the food he needed to get through the park.
Really? When would that be? When they're feeling foolish or just self destructive?
Hey, now, to each his own... some folks just prefer to stay on the trail and out of towns for longer periods. HYOH
SGT Rock
10-31-2007, 08:31
I've carried as much as 10 days of food at a time for a hike. I'm still alive.
paradoxb3
10-31-2007, 13:06
He was on a very limited budget (both $ and time) and wanted to avoid town stops at all costs. Said he was carrying two weeks of food. He also had two dogs with him.
hahaha just in case?
Johnny Thunder
10-31-2007, 13:09
hahaha just in case?
On the two days and a night I spent with Phoenix his dogs were well behaved. They did scare off one bear and a few small children.
Now...if he could only teach 'em to wrangle. Bears are stringy but children, well, children are tasty.
shelterbuilder
11-01-2007, 07:50
...Bears are stringy but children, well, children are tasty.
...and I suppose that YOUR house is made of gingerbread, too?:D
I'll second the notion of carrying a week's worth (or more) of food and living to tell about it - especially for section hikes with time constraints. Who wants to "waste time" leaving the trail for something as mundane as food?
Here's something I wrote yesterday in response to a friend who is planning an '08 AT hike. She wanted to know about mail drops vs. resupply in town, and whether the MH meals (serves 2 type) were too big, etc. It's nothing revolutionary, but I thought some '08 planners might find it useful:
"I ordered Mountain House food from:
http://ldpcampingfoods.com/MountainHouse.htm (http://ldpcampingfoods.com/MountainHouse.htm)
They give volume discounts. For dinner I liked the Pro-Pak meals,
which are a realistic serving for one, and are in smaller packages than
the "serves 2" meals. In 2006 they offered 8 varieties, so I ordered
equal amounts of each. I estimated a shorter time for the hike than I
actually took, but I ended up eating many, many more restaurant and
home-cooked meals than I had anticipated. This was absolutely not a
problem--MH keeps, and keeps well. I used some of the extras on this
summer's hike, and still have some more for upcoming weekend and
holiday hikes.
By rotating amongst the 8 meals, and adding a liberal number of
restaurant meals, I never got bored with the MH meals for dinner.
I also continued to like the MH blueberry granola for breakfast. This
has the milk built in, so it's a just-add-water food. I bought it in
large cans and distributed into Zip-Locks. I liked this for breakfast
all the way through the AT, and through the JMT. I still like it.
The same cannot be said of other foods that I bought at Costco ahead of
time. (It'll be a long time before I want another Snickers bar!)
So...for most other food I would recommend buying along the way.
Really, the only reason for shipping yourself food is if you are very
particular about what you eat, or (like me) you have a strong aversion
to having to wash dishes after meals. (Freezer bag cooking! Yay!)
I suggest making some prototype shopping lists for three-day and four-
day resupplies.
Sample daily menu for a four-day section:
Breakfast--One packet Instant Breakfast
Powdered milk
Pop Tarts
1 liter Constant Comment tea
Snack 1--1/4 small jar of peanut butter
1/4 sleeve of Ritz Crackers
Snack 2--1/4 lb. hard cheese
Candy bar
Snack 3--1/2 c. dried fruit
1 small packet nuts
Dinner--MH meal, or Lipton, or whatever
1/4 lb. baby carrots (bought peeled and ready to eat)
herb tea
Shopping list for above menu:
Instant Breakfast
Powdered milk (preferably Nido)
1 box Pop Tarts
small jar of peanut butter (crunchy) or kid's lunch cups of p.b.
Ritz crackers
1 lb. block of hard cheese
4 candy bars, various types (small at the start of the hike; family-
sized later on)
Two cups of dried fruit
4 snack packets of nuts and/or seeds
Four MH meals, or Lipton, or whatever
1 lb. bag of baby carrots
tea bags
If you're shopping in a grocery store, you'll end up with stuff left
over. Put it in a hiker box, or in a bounce box to send to yourself.
I included snack, pint, quart, and gallon Ziplocks in my bounce
box, so I could repackage food more easily.
If you start off with a plan like this, you'll soon figure out how to
vary your diet to suit yourself. The main thing is to
avoid "panicking" in the store and buying enough to feed a couple of
starving teenaged boys for a week--which will in no way fit in your
pack. Which is why I suggest a written list. Also, don't buy the same
things over and over--you WILL get tired of them. Note what other
hikers are eating that looks good to you, and get some of that next
time, and leave off some of the stuff you've just had.
Summer sausage, pepperoni, Spam, Baby Belle cheeses, string cheese, all
sorts of crackers, many types of candy, cookies, regional foods (try
some Moxie in Maine, but only buy one!), packaged tuna, chicken, even
the occasional ramen... Look in the area devoted to kids lunch foods
and see what looks good. That is already wrapped in individual portion
sizes. When you get a craving, jot it down on your shopping list so
you'll remember next time you're in a store. (There's nothing quite as
frustrating as getting back on the Trail and realizing you forgot to
buy replacement batteries, or tissues, or...)
I've really gotten carried away. I love to think about food at least
as much as I love to eat it. Sorry."
I cannot believe you would suggest paying to try a Moxie. Try it if someone offers you one, prepare to spit. Carbonated mule urine. Ask me what I really think. Twisted today...Yeehaw!
I cannot believe you would suggest paying to try a Moxie. Try it if someone offers you one, prepare to spit. Carbonated mule urine. Ask me what I really think. Twisted today...Yeehaw!
You weenie!:D
I bought myself a Moxie in Monson at the BBQ place. Grazer bought one at the same time. Even as we grimaced and complained, Goatmilk went and bought himself one. I can't explain it. And, no, he didn't like it either.
I guess everyone needs to feel the pain for themselves.
Kind of like "That smells nasty." "Yes, it does."
warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 09:58
You weenie!:D
I bought myself a Moxie in Monson at the BBQ place. Grazer bought one at the same time. Even as we grimaced and complained, Goatmilk went and bought himself one. I can't explain it. And, no, he didn't like it either.
My Moxie debacle also happened in Monson, bought it at Tim's general store. Imagine just coming out of the 100 mile, buying a soda and dumping everything but the first sip into the grass. Yuck!!!
Went back in and got a Pepsi. Proper.
Should have got a Dr. Pepper. What Moxie might have been.
I love Dr. Pepper. I also thought Moxie is Dr. Pepper gone wrong. Dr. Pepper with more than a hint of soap. And minus the sugar.
warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 10:19
I love Dr. Pepper. I also thought Moxie is Dr. Pepper gone wrong. Dr. Pepper with more than a hint of soap. And minus the sugar.
Yup Dr. Pepper is definitely always the second choice. But for sure whoever said Moxie is carbonated Moose urine sure seems to have a lock on the recipe.
Lone Wolf
11-09-2007, 10:24
Moxie is great. made with gentian root. oldest soft drink in America
warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 10:29
Moxie is great. made with gentian root. oldest soft drink in America
Oh, that would explain the moldy putridness.:)
warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 10:31
Moxie is great. made with gentian root. oldest soft drink in America
Would that be roots found at the bottom of Gentian Pond? Or as anyone who's been there after 6 pm can attest, the big moose toilet.:p
The Hundred Mile wilderness, maybe, if one ignored White House Landing. (WHL wasn't an option for some of us old geezers.)
It wasn't for me in 1998.. I'm more of a geezer than an old geezer. ;)
Not sure if I'd have used that option if it had existed at the time. Of course, I was so darn hungry, the siren call of a cheeseburger would have been too hard to ignore.
(When I finished the PCT and CDT, I weighed ~170lbs +/-, when I finished the AT I weighed ~145-150 lbs!!!!!! Egads... man was I hungry AND skinny)
dessertrat
11-09-2007, 11:15
I ate at WHL but didn't resupply there. I also had planned not to resupply in the Smokies. There were some other places I decided it was better to carry extra food rather than resupply, for instance, I didn't resupply in Port Clinton.
Yes, it seems to me, that if one really wants to make good time, it would be better to suck up a bit of extra weight, carry some extra food, and lessen the resupply trips.
(When I finished the PCT and CDT, I weighed ~170lbs +/-, when I finished the AT I weighed ~145-150 lbs!!!!!! Egads... man was I hungry AND skinny)
When I saw the movie of Into the Wild, at the very end I was thinking that I'd seen thru-hikers skinnier than that.
When I saw the movie of Into the Wild, at the very end I was thinking that I'd seen thru-hikers skinnier than that.
Chalk up another advantage for section hikers. :D
When I saw the movie of Into the Wild, at the very end I was thinking that I'd seen thru-hikers skinnier than that.
If you keep in mind my ethnic background, showing up home that thin threw my family for a loop. :eek:
When I showed up after finishing the PCT, Mom was relieved. In her thick Rhody accent she said "Ohhh Paaaawwwl, I was so worried! You don't look like you staaahved this time" :)
To bring this thread back....
As someone mentioned, choosing to go without frequent resupply does make a quicker trip. Less time in towns is the little spoken part of doing a faster hike.
Another advantage to non-frequent resupply is that (for me anyway) it immerses me more into the wilderness experience without the distractions of town.
Hiking the 100 mile wilderness without a resupply was a highlight of the AT for me. Looking back, I don't think I would have preferred to break it up.
It is why I did the High Sierra w/o a resupply and the Winds as well (even with relatively accessible alternatives to break up the food carry); both were intense and wonderful experiences.
Would I want to carry 8 days of food on the AT for a frequent basis? Heck no. But maybe doing a 5-6 day food carry (as opposed to 3-4) on a regular basis would not only make for a quicker hike, but (and more importantly) increase the wildness (yes, WILDness) feel of an AT thru-hike. In some areas, doing a large food carry would really increase the intensity and wilderness feel of an area (Smokies, the Whites, 100 mile Wildnerss).
Just my opinion anyway.
How did your caloric intake/feeding strategy differ on the PCT&CDT?
Great advice Mags. Makes me thing of leaving Muir Ranch. Dang that pack was heavy.
IMO, town stops, even every 3-5 days, needn't impact one's overall hiking rate. But the key is to get in and out quickly and use your time efficiently. Zero days will kill your overall rate. More efficient to arrive in town mid or late afternoon (after having done 10-12 miles, say) and get back on the trail early the next morning. Anyway, that's what worked for me on this last section, and it enabled this mildly overweight/out-of-shape geezer to maintain a 15 mile/day average for nearly six weeks straight. No zero days!
How did your caloric intake/feeding strategy differ on the PCT&CDT?
It wasn't so much my caloric intake, as my caloric expenditure (at least I think).
My base pack weight was THREE times on the AT what it was on the PCT and CDT.
Add in the generally steeper climbs and rockier terrain of the AT plus no zero days between DWG and Katahdin (a few neroes, but NO zeroes), you have a body that took more of a beating (much heavier pack with steeper terrain and no rest...egads!)
Plus, I was 24 yo on the AT vs 32 on the CDT. I suspect my metabolism was pegged higher in 1998. Finally, I thnk my body is just plain used to longer days over mountainous terrain vs 9 yrs ago. I am much more active overall than when I started my thru-hiking "career". And I may be older, but endurance peaks in your early 30s. (Convenient fact as I am 33 ;) )
Put it it you this way, I had a base pack weight of ~9 lbs on the CDT vs ~28lbs on the AT. On the AT, 20 MPD was a huge day with 15 MPD about my average. On the CDT, I routinely did 25 MPD.
I felt so beat up on the AT... on the CDT I felt strong physically and looked muscular, healthy, etc. (Of course, the CDT drained me mentally more than the other two..but that's another thread. :) )
Hope that all makes sense.
ps. If anyone is curious, I wrote a rough comparison of my gear over various hikes. (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=33) Off to do another hike tomorrow...Yeah!
Great advice Mags. Makes me thing of leaving Muir Ranch. Dang that pack was heavy.
Going from Kennedy Meadows to VVR without a resupply was certainly hard. (10 days of food, plus an ice axe!). But man, going through snow covered passes, not seeing town for well over a week, being on the highest peak in the lower 48....
Those 10 days were by far the most intense, wonderful, gorgeous and memorable days of my backpacking "career". Even on the CDT, I did not have an experience as intense as those 10 days in the High Sierra.
I suspect if I went into town during that time, I would not have had quite the memory seared into me. Sometimes it is worth carrying extra weight.
As I said, I think the Smokies, the Whites and the 100 mile wilderness would be the places worth doing with an extra couple of days food vs a town stop. I suspect the feeling of remoteness would be magnified when you do not break up the experience by heading into town.
YMMV.
Damn..I gotta hike the AT again. :)
As I said, I think the Smokies, the Whites and the 100 mile wilderness would be the places worth doing with an extra couple of days food vs a town stop. I suspect the feeling of remoteness would be magnified when you do not break up the experience by heading into town.
I wonder to what extent people's decision to go with very small light packs effectively eliminates the option.
Not knowing any better, I did mostly 10 day stretches between resupply. Many of the "must hitch to" towns these days were completely off my radar, and might not have even existed.
Consider the difference in carrying 7 days worth of food vs. 4 days worth of food:
4 Days @ 2Lbs per day
Day 1 -- 8 Lbs on your back
Day 2 -- 6 Lbs on your back
Day 3 -- 4 Lbs on your back
Day 4 -- 2 Lbs on your back
Average Lbs carried on your back = 20 / 4 = 5 lbs per day
7 Days @ 2Lbs per day
Day 1 -- 14 Lbs on your back
Day 2 -- 12 Lbs on your back
Day 3 -- 10 Lbs on your back
Day 4 -- 8 Lbs on your back
Day 5 -- 6 Lbs on your back
Day 6 -- 4 Lbs on your back
Day 7 -- 2 Lbs on your back
Average Lbs carried on your back = 56 / 7 = 8 lbs per day
So for an average weight carried of just 3 pounds more per day, you can stay in the woods 75% longer!!!!!
Just a thought for those who are trying to rationalize why they might want to consider a pack with a more comfortable hip belt, more robust suspension system, or bit larger volume than that one finds on some of the ultralight weenie packs.
I wonder to what extent people's decision to go with very small light packs effectively eliminates the option.
Sorry. I don't buy this logic (light packs = less time in the woods)
I carrried a frameless ruck sack on the PCT (LW Gear 1lb mesh pack, Z-rest for a stay). I went 10 days without a resupply, carried an ice axe and had a liter of water. Total weight? 41 lbs as measured at Kennedy Meadows.
On the CDT, I used an even smaller and lighter pack and spent ~7.5 days w/o resupply in the Winds (or about 175-85 or so miles. I covered ~25 MPD).
A light base pack weight does not translate into more town time.
It is all about packing efficiently. And I ain't no athlete. I'm about as average a schulb you'll find. :)
whitefoot_hp
11-12-2007, 13:17
i am afraid i do not buy the logic that light packs= less time in woods.
more like less time carrying extra weight and more time chilling and camping because you hike with ease.
As I said, I think the Smokies, the Whites and the 100 mile wilderness would be the places worth doing with an extra couple of days food vs a town stop. I suspect the feeling of remoteness would be magnified when you do not break up the experience by heading into town.
I'm with you there, Mags. I think that was one of the reasons I am still so taken by my week in the woods thru the 100-mile wilderness. That's probably as long as I've ever gone between town stops. I was pretty happy when it was over, too!
I'm with you there, Mags. I think that was one of the reasons I am still so taken by my week in the woods thru the 100-mile wilderness. That's probably as long as I've ever gone between town stops. I was pretty happy when it was over, too!
Stratton to Gorham is a good stretch too.
Stratton to Gorham is a good stretch too.
... but Rangeley and Andover are just too tempting and convenient.. ;)