View Full Version : Going with no sleeping bag!!
OK. Here goes. I hope no one thinks I'm crazy but if you do that's OK too. Have any of you gone backpacking without a sleeping bag? I am considering using down underwear, a north Face down jacket, insulated underwear, hat, gloves, and down booties instead. I am finding my bag to restrictive to move in and wonder if I can stay warm enough to around the freezing mark. Any ideas? Thanks!!
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2007, 12:39
Your theory is great......unless it gets below freezing and then you're screwed. Personally, I'd find sleeping in nine layers of clothes a lot more restrictive than a sleeping bag, but that's just me. If you don't want a bag, then get a quilt or fleece blanket of some sort, but I think you'll want more than just outerwear when it comes to sleeping, unless your trip is going to be limited to summertime.
warraghiyagey
11-01-2007, 12:44
I have a full rectangle sleeping bagthat gives more room than the mummy shape bags for sure. And on the nights when it's appropriate, I completely unzip it for unrestricted leg room, and it still acts as padding and a throwover in case it's chilly.
wrongway_08
11-01-2007, 12:45
Yea, sleeping in all that clothes would really bum me out, it would get old tossing in on and then peeling it back off every day.
At the end of the day I find comfort in zipping up the bag and crashing out.
*plus you look that much bigger to all those blood thirsty bears in a bag :rolleyes:
Uncle Silly
11-01-2007, 12:46
Down underwear???
My sleeping bag drove me nuts due to the half-zipper; I swapped it out for a down quilt. If it's the restriction that's bugging you, why not try a quilt or wool blankets or something? I don't know for sure, but I think you'd have a hard time getting enough layering going to be comfortable at 32 degrees. I'd also expect the weight of the necessary layers would be much greater than the weight of a down quilt.
There's been a couple of sleeping-bag related threads here that discuss the basic theory of insulation -- search around, you'll find something. Here's one to start you out ... it's in the Hammocking forum, but Fiddleback (post #11) sounds like he's doing something similar to what you're asking about:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21125
Rift Zone
11-01-2007, 12:47
good luck with that. You're a braver soul than I.
eric_plano
11-01-2007, 12:58
Just James tried not using a sleeping bag this year for a bit and said he found it pretty uncomfortable. Of course he wasn't wearing a down suit either ;)
Bootstrap
11-01-2007, 13:04
Down underwear???
Probably the source of the phrase "down there".
Jonathan
Why not use the same technique lots of folks use for their first time hammocking or tarping instead of tenting: try it for a week in the backyard, if it works for you there, hit the woods for a few weekends, with backup gear, until you know it will (or won't) work for you.
Doesn't really matter what we think, only what works for you, but personally, I've gone the quilt route.
Bootstrap
11-01-2007, 13:09
Why not use the same technique lots of folks use for their first time hammocking or tarping instead of tenting: try it for a week in the backyard, if it works for you there, hit the woods for a few weekends, with backup gear, until you know it will (or won't) work for you.
Yup.
FWIW, I've done this experiment. I need *something* like a quilt or a backpack for a good night's sleep. Clothes alone don't cut it. Your mileage may vary.
Jonathan
whitefoot_hp
11-01-2007, 13:13
you might find that supplementing your extra layers with a light blanket my be better than relying on your layers alone. you may be on to something that will work for you, but you may need some balance. a fleece blanket or even a poncho liner, or a nylon blanket or an extra wide bivy sack may help you.
YeOldeBackpacker
11-01-2007, 13:31
Try some of the Big Agnes bags they make a series called the Park series there are 6 different models, Lots of wiggle room, you could also add an item called a wedgie sleeping bag expander,which will give you 7 inches more girth in your bag, or if your looking at summer type temps. try a fleece liner bag, I agree with trying it at home in your yard, don't worry about what others think, do what works for you, only you know your comfort zone.
OK. Here goes. I hope no one thinks I'm crazy but if you do that's OK too. Have any of you gone backpacking without a sleeping bag? I am considering using down underwear, a north Face down jacket, insulated underwear, hat, gloves, and down booties instead. I am finding my bag to restrictive to move in and wonder if I can stay warm enough to around the freezing mark. Any ideas? Thanks!!
:D go for it dude:cool: neo
icemanat95
11-01-2007, 14:16
Your theory is great......unless it gets below freezing and then you're screwed. Personally, I'd find sleeping in nine layers of clothes a lot more restrictive than a sleeping bag, but that's just me. If you don't want a bag, then get a quilt or fleece blanket of some sort, but I think you'll want more than just outerwear when it comes to sleeping, unless your trip is going to be limited to summertime.
I'm with Jack on this one. A sleeping bag is one piece of kit I won't go without. I may use it as a blanket when it's warm and change out my cool weather bag for a fleece bag in the warm weather. This is another one of those things that I can't quite see about the whole ultralight thing. To strip your carry weight down that far, you've got to make some serious concessions to safety. If you don't have the skills to really understand whether you can get away without a sleeping bag or not, then the answer is pretty simple...you need the sleeping bag, because you do not have the skills to do without one.
No offense intended here, but traveling safely through the backcountry does require skills, not just knowledge, but skills to put knowledge to practical use. You clearly do not have those skills...yet, but keep hiking and you will.
Appalachian Tater
11-01-2007, 14:26
I feel pretty constricted in a sleeping bag, too. The best advice, as others have said, is to get a big bag or a quilt. Nunatak makes a quilt for the lower half of your body that pairs with a hooded down jacket to make a sleep system, I think one was for sale in the used gear forum recently.
It's a great idea in theory. Whatever you, DO TRY IT AT HOME first!
Cannibal
11-01-2007, 14:29
Quilt, quilt, quilt.
I tried doing what you're attempting when I was in my early 20s and better suited to it. I spent a week in temps ranging from 40 - 50 degrees at night and was, for the most part, fine. However, I would not have wanted to go any colder than that. I didn't have any down undies, but would have been happy to have them. Besides, in my mind, a blankee keeps the boogeyman away.
But hey, that was me. It's up to you; you'll never know till you try. Just be sure to tell us how it worked out for ya.
Do the Jeremiah Johnson thing.... dig a hole and put the embers from a fire in it then cover it with dirt and sleep on top of the warm ground. Just don't dig the hole too shallow like he did in the movie
sweetpeastu
11-01-2007, 14:40
Uhh I would say thats crazy in cold weather. In the summer time at lower elevations I'd say go for it. I lugged my sleeping bag around on a trip at the beg. of September and I roasted to death. It was about 3 pounds of crap I didn't need to carry (have since upgraded to lighter--sub 2 pound bag...which will be even more unbearbly warm in summer). I wish I'd left the darn thing at home. Above 5,000 feet I mighta been singing a diff. tune though. I guess it depends on when/where you're going.
Quilt, quilt, quilt.
I tried doing what you're attempting when I was in my early 20s and better suited to it. I spent a week in temps ranging from 40 - 50 degrees at night and was, for the most part, fine. However, I would not have wanted to go any colder than that. I didn't have any down undies, but would have been happy to have them. Besides, in my mind, a blankee keeps the boogeyman away.
But hey, that was me. It's up to you; you'll never know till you try. Just be sure to tell us how it worked out for ya.
:) thats the only way i would go:cool: neo
minnesotasmith
11-01-2007, 15:08
I did that for at least 4 nights in central Maine in early October last year. I was doing what I call "light-packing", which is overnighting 1-2 nights as part of an extended slack-pack that is too far for a single day's hike. I did carry a tarptent, Thermarest, one thin quilt, and the majority of my winter clothing. I also kept a VERY close eye on the weather forecast before setting out. The 1st 3 items were externally tied to a small backpack someone might use in college to carry textbooks around in.
My rationale was that if I carried my sleeping bag, it would force me to use my regular, large pack, a Gregory Whitney. I was pressing hard, trying to make miles, while nursing a less-than-completely-happy knee, in order to make Katahdin before the 15th (and I did!) :D
I was cool but not overly cold doing this. Only one night did I lose any sleep due to being chilled. That said, there WERE nights before and after that during my time on the Trail in Maine that would have been a bad decision, due to considerably lower temps.
Thanks much for the input from everyone. This sleeping thing is something I have struggled with over the last few years. I just don't like being confined in my sleeping bag and am trying to find a solution. If I come up with something I am happy with, I will post for others to see. Thanks again for everyone's comments. Jay B.
Thanks much for the input from everyone. This sleeping thing is something I have struggled with over the last few years. I just don't like being confined in my sleeping bag and am trying to find a solution. If I come up with something I am happy with, I will post for others to see. Thanks again for everyone's comments. Jay B.You'll be cold, but some people tolerate it better than others. You have to find out how YOU will react to not being able to curl up in a bag.
Just go out in the mountains when it's windy and the temp is in the teens without a sleeping bag. If you don't sneak back to your vehicle in the middle of the night, you're fine with what you were wearing. If you can't stand being that cold, either try it again with more clothing or get a sleeping bag.
If you don't like being confined, try the WM Megalite, or the Badger. I'm 6'5", 270# and am comfortable in the Megalite, and have loads of room in the Badger.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=ExtremeLite%20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=19
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=Microfiber%20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=34
Tipi Walter
11-01-2007, 19:11
I went thru the Gear Wars when I was younger, using a wool blanket instead of a bag, using a daypack instead of a backpack, using sandals instead of boots, etc. But it all came to a grinding halt and the bubble burst when the temp hit 10 below zero in a swirling blizzard. There was no question then of sleeping bag useage or "Do I really need a tent?" When the cold fecal storm hits the floorfan, I'm danged thankful for the goose down bag and the tent it houses.
Such gear experiments with Momma Nature seem to occur when she's at her best behavior. The other times we retreat to what works and is proven.
What will you change or get into if you are wet and shivering?
Fiddleback
11-01-2007, 20:23
This issue has been frequently discussed on this and other forums and I've not been reluctant to post my experience and sleep system. Here I go again...;)
My sleep system:
fresh Smartwool underwear
fresh wool socks
fleece balaclava
fleece glove liners
down booties
All of the above, plus or minus some items, is what I take whether I'm using a sleeping bag or not.
Add to the above:
Integral Designs Dolomitti jacket with hood
Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon pants
I always carry those two items...in my area freezing temps at night are possible any time during my May-Oct season. I have yet to wear these while hoofing down the trail but they work great as part of a sleep system and for hanging around camp.
Speaking of hanging, I mostly use a hammock and the picture of me trying to wiggle into a sleeping bag in a hammock is what first drove me to look for a bagless sleep system.
For the hammock, add an Oware pad; my older model is 60 X 40 X 1/4" (7oz).
All the above together has kept me warm, in the hammock, to 25F. Below that the pad needs to be upgraded. If I were to go to ground I'd also upgrade the pad for a softer lay-down and I would expect the sleep system to keep me comfortable into the low teens or lower.
I have a quilt but have yet to use it in cold weather. I have used it in warmer weather (mid-spring/high 30s w/snow) when I left the Cocoon pants at home.
This system works great for me because of the dual use of the cold weather clothing. I always carry the insulated jacket and pants during the ealy spring/late fall but have only worn them in camp and in the hammock (I heat up a lot when backpacking...I don't need to keep warm when moving down the trail). The system also works because of my area's climate; warm to cool days, cool to freezing nights, and hardly any humidity.
The considerations I'd stress and consider to be most important? First, this is an individual thing. No matter the yeas and nays you hear from any of us, only you can determine if it will work for you. Experiment in your backyard, not on the trail. Second, with a bag or without one, it's important to have fresh, clean clothes to sleep in. Trying to sleep in sweat-dampened clothing could lead to disaster.
Good luck in your efforts...do some Google searchs on the issue and see this, Clothing and Sleep Systems for Mountain Hiking, 1st Edition (August 2002), here, http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00036.html and other writing from the 'guys' at BackpackingLight.com and Beartooth Mountain Press.
FB
What will you change or get into if you are wet and shivering?
he is gonna change in this: http://www.taigaworks.ca/html/outdoor-gear/Sleeping-Bags/SleepWalker-Down-Sleeping-Bag-128.html
HA HA HA i couldn't resist not to show this ↑
http://www.nunatakusa.com/Sleeping_Bag_Back_Country_Blanket.htm
http://www.nunatakusa.com/Sleeping_Bag_Raku.htm
I would check out these or one of their other variable girth sleeping bags. A lot more mobile than a normal bag, but far more thermally efficient than a bunch of clothing layers.
As far as weight is concerned, you'll always find that trying to stay warm in clothing vs. a sleeping bag requires a LOT more gear weight. Clothing will isolate your extremities so they cannot share body heat between them (think of a glove vs. a mitten) and will also isolate body heat from warm areas of your body (core) from reaching areas of your body that produce less metabolic heat (feet).
So yes, given enough insulating clothing, you certainly could stay warm to below freezing. But why bother? It certainly seems as if there are a lot of better options out there.
he is gonna change in this: http://www.taigaworks.ca/html/outdoor-gear/Sleeping-Bags/SleepWalker-Down-Sleeping-Bag-128.html
HA HA HA i couldn't resist not to show this ?
Rather fashionable around the shelter, eh? ;)
Wow, that one on the bottom - the faceless handless waving bag is somewhat creeeeeeeepy. It would be a great item for a cut and paste in photoshop, uh oh, here were go.....
I'm pretty sure Wolf (not L. Wolf) just takes a just a bivy and sleeps in his clothes. When it gets cold at 4AM, he starts hiking.
Dakota Dan
11-02-2007, 01:21
Jay B, let us know how it turns out. I can't imagine a "no sleeping bag" arrangement being doable or safe. Good luck.
Fiddleback
11-02-2007, 09:32
It's true that sleeping without a sleeping bag increases your risk.
It's generally accepted that sleeping bags were invented/developed in the 1860's. Everybody that slept outdoors before then died.:D
FB
samson1023
11-02-2007, 10:45
I'm going to be out on the trail next week for a couple of night and I think I'm going to try w/o sleeping bag also. going to use a military poncho liner and a high quality thermal blanket (with the reflective lining) I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Tipi Walter
11-02-2007, 16:06
It's true that sleeping without a sleeping bag increases your risk.
It's generally accepted that sleeping bags were invented/developed in the 1860's. Everybody that slept outdoors before then died.:D
FB
In the old days it was buffalo skins and caribou layers. People knew how to stay warm and survive in style as they added dyed quillwork to their garments to decorate them piece by piece. Who wants to quill a down sleeping bag nowadays? Be tough on the old thermarest, etc. Was a full buffalo hide heavy? Yup, but when the group participated and the dogs helped to haul things on a small travois, it wasn't impossible to stay mobile and stay warm.
Flush2wice
11-02-2007, 16:23
Thanks much for the input from everyone. This sleeping thing is something I have struggled with over the last few years. I just don't like being confined in my sleeping bag and am trying to find a solution. If I come up with something I am happy with, I will post for others to see. Thanks again for everyone's comments. Jay B.
I'm going to be out on the trail next week for a couple of night and I think I'm going to try w/o sleeping bag also. going to use a military poncho liner and a high quality thermal blanket (with the reflective lining) I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Maybe ya'll should take your bag to be safe, but don't use it unless your freezing. That would be the real test.