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Tramper Al
11-26-2003, 08:44
Hi:
So, I am considering hiking the AT in NE over the original or other historic AT route. My impression is that the route was significantly different back then. Does anyone know of a source or sources that would help me work out the original route through the New England States?
Thanks in advance,
- Tramper Al

Frosty
11-26-2003, 10:15
Hi:
So, I am considering hiking the AT in NE over the original or other historic AT route. My impresison is that the route was significantly different back then. Does anyone know of a source or sources that would help me work out the original route through the New England States?
Thanks in advance,
- Tramper Al

You know those ATC guidebooks/maps for each section? I have the NH/VT one, 2nd editon, published 1968, and I can tell you that you can't do what you want to do (hike the original trail).

There are lots of differences in the trail in NH, where I'm familiar with the trail. The trail has been relocated a number of times. For instance, it didn't used to go over Smarts Ridge or anywhere near the Dartmouth skiway. Where it used to go, THERE IS NO LONGER A TRAIL.

This is what will stop you. The maps are not topos, but general guides showing relative trail location. No way can you navigate by them. Besides, sometimes where the trail was relocated you can no longer walk (construction, etc.)

I found my guide in a used book store. You could probably locate something on ebay

TJ aka Teej
11-26-2003, 10:17
Hi:
So, I am considering hiking the AT in NE over the original or other historic AT route. My impresison is that the route was significantly different back then. Does anyone know of a source or sources that would help me work out the original route through the New England States?
Thanks in advance,
- Tramper AlWell, in Maine it wouldn't be easy to do. You'd need to plan on lots of bushwhacking and boating. Most of the original route was laid across tote roads, and planned to get you from sporting camp to sporting camp. The Kennebec crossing at Caratunk was placed there to take advantage of existing boat traffic serving sporting camps. Instead of being routed over the ridgelines and around ponds, the trail was sent into valley ways and you were ferried across several ponds in boats. At Flagstaff Lake the old route is now under water. You'd find the woods pretty full of lumbering and cabins in the 100 mile wilderness, even with a hermit living at the Hermitage. Up near Katahdin there was no Abol Bridge across the West Branch, you crossed the river on a cable foot bridge. The MATC has plenty of old maps and records, as does Baxter State Park. I suspect the AMC should have most of the other states, and the GMC has pre-AT Long Trail maps. I've got a few old things too, like the second edition Maine guide books, and a 1933 map done by the first party to travel the 'new' section from Katahdin Iron Works to Baxter Peak. Up until a few years ago you could follow the old AT off the Rainbow Ledges to where the old footbridge crossed the river. Liquidation logging has since obliterated the route. Good luck with this, Tramper!

Moon Monster
11-27-2003, 00:55
This is a really cool idea. I hope you are able to do as much as you can. I ran into some guys this year in Virginia who were doing something similar. They had old maps and lots of memories. They were taking blue blazes or overgrown trails and calling it the "1981" AT or whatever it was. There are still lots of the old metal AT markers where no one would ever see them unless they do this sort of thing.

I'd call it "retro-blazing"! Good luck.

Saluki Dave
11-27-2003, 01:06
I was interested in a historic hike of the pre-Fontana dam route through Toccoa, NC and up the Yellow Creek Mountains. As yet I haven't been able to determine if the trail even still exists past Gregory Bald. I don't even know if I'd be able to lay my hands on any trail guides, as this goes back to 1947 or so. Any info or opinions?

Tramper Al
11-27-2003, 14:02
Hey, thanks for the responses so far.

I finally started reading "Forest and Crag", and that actually has some pretty good information (and map diagrams) about trail routes in the early days. I will probably have to go to the Waterman's sources for the fine details.

I don't mind doing some bushwhacking and route finding along the way, and I think trying to locate or approximate early routes would be half the fun. Some of the original road walks (and villages) are now abandoned forest roads (and ghost towns).

If I undertake this project, I expect that I will be producing my own topo maps, based on my findings in old maps and guides. There will be more to to it than grabbing an antique ATC guide and hitting the trail!

As a current section hiker, I am definitely of the white blaze purist type. However, I don't believe one can be a purist about hiking the past AT circa 1937 or whenever. Walking on (or under) water seems like a bit much.

Thanks again!

Kerosene
11-29-2003, 15:20
Tramper Al:

I think I still have some photocopied trail maps circa early 70's if you'd be interested. I know that the Trail route has changed in many places even since then.

Tramper Al
11-29-2003, 17:01
Thank you, Kerosene, for that kind offer. I think, however, that I am going to aim for the 1937 trail as much as possible. Maybe, the better approach would be to hike the OLDEST route I can reasonably travel for each given section? That might work.


Tramper Al:

I think I still have some photocopied trail maps circa early 70's if you'd be interested. I know that the Trail route has changed in many places even since then.

Peaks
11-29-2003, 17:03
Thank you, Kerosene, for that kind offer. I think, however, that I am going to aim for the 1937 trail as much as possible. Maybe, the better approach would be to hike the OLDEST route I can reasonably travel for each given section? That might work.

Does that mean that you plan to walk much of Skyline Drive and the northern parts of the Blue Ridge Parkway?

Tramper Al
11-30-2003, 08:59
Does that mean that you plan to walk much of Skyline Drive and the northern parts of the Blue Ridge Parkway?

No, unless my research shows that these highways were once located in New England. My base is in Shrewsbury.

Groucho
11-30-2003, 13:46
I was interested in a historic hike of the pre-Fontana dam route through Toccoa, NC and up the Yellow Creek Mountains. As yet I haven't been able to determine if the trail even still exists past Gregory Bald. I don't even know if I'd be able to lay my hands on any trail guides, as this goes back to 1947 or so. Any info or opinions?

Saluki,

The old route is still on the topo maps. Try topozone.com (no www.). For location type in Walker Gap, NC and select Fontana Lake quad. Use 1:24K/25K, 1:50,000. The old trail is labelled as Alternate Appalachian Trail at Walker Gap. You can easily trace it as it goes to Tapoco (road walk here to cross Lake Cheoah), Deals Gap (here it enters the Smokies), Gregory Bald and ends at Doe Knob.

I traced it on what looks like the same map on MapTech AT. It was a 1961 map, revised in 1978. The trail was about 21 mi. compared to 12 mi. on the present AT. Who knows if this trail is still passable. I remember reading some journals from a few years back where hikers took this trail to Fontana Village and complained that it was hard going due to blowdowns. In the Smokies map for the AT, the old trail going S is indicated by dots some where past Gregory Bald; this indicates an unmaintained trail (I believe). You might contact the rangers' office at Nantahala Nat'l Forest and the Smokey's visitor center. If you find out anything, let us know.

Tramper Al
11-30-2003, 15:22
Hi:
In case people are not aware of this link.

Old topos (http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm)

This is a very nice online resource, containing up to 3 historic Topo maps for each grid in all of New England (and New York?), in many cases more than 100 years old. Check it out.

oruoja
11-30-2003, 15:35
I hiked the AT in '79 from NY to NH and a good part of the trail has been rerouted (CT/MA). The old road walks won't be a problem, but some of the old trail is on private property which may or may not be passable. Even in Vermont in the Green Mountain National forest boundaries there is private ownership of land, however, much of the old AT/LT route is on blue blazed trails, many of which offer more interest than the current route.

dfiske
08-09-2004, 13:01
A great resource (and free!) is the online
collection of topographic maps made available
by the University of New Hampshire.

As an example, look how the 1948 topo shows
the AT going around the east side of Finnerty
Pond in Massachusetts. I did a day hike to the
pond last weekend--the AT goes to the west
of the pond now.

http://docs.unh.edu/MA/estl48se.jpg

Map coverage varies by date, and is only offered
for the New England states and New York.

I like to check out the old maps before I go
hiking somewhere, and see if I can find remnants
of things shown on the old maps which aren't
there anymore.

Dave Fiske

TJ aka Teej
08-09-2004, 22:29
http://docs.unh.edu/MA/estl48se.jpg

Super link, and :welcome Dave!

Teej

dfiske
08-09-2004, 23:07
Thanks for the welcoming words.

Probably would have been a good idea to
give a URL for the menu of historic topos at UNH:

http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm

These maps are a great way to take a peek back
into the past.

Around 1966, my Boy Scout troop in Connecticut
took a hike through Sage's Ravine to Bear Mountain.
I swore we parked right at the Conn.-Mass. border,
and walked along an old road to pick up the AT.
However, when you drive along that section of
Route 41 now, there are no roads, no connector
trails.

But, when you look at the 1949/50 topo,
you can see that I wasn't crazy (at least, not
in this instance):

http://docs.unh.edu/MA/bash49se.jpg
Dave Fiske

Blister
08-10-2004, 00:37
I can tell you about a couple of great blue blazes that were once the AT. Lots of great history stuff to go with them from MA border until about Killington in VT.
Blister

Kerosene
08-10-2004, 09:18
Blister, please share on this thread!

dfiske, I too recall a road noted on the trail map not too far from Sages Ravine when I went through in March 1975. We were considering as a bail-out point if we fell trying to cross the snowmelt-engorged torrent on a relatively thin, slippery blowdown!

Tramper Al
08-10-2004, 11:59
Yes, I have been using the old topos on the UNH site for some time - great resource.

What would be nice for an AT historical hiker would be access to old trail guides, descriptions and maps.

Also, the book 'Forest and Crag' by Guy and Laura Waterman has some decent details about early AT routes and reroutes in the New England states.

Sleepy the Arab
08-11-2004, 12:11
The historical AT route(s) is somewhat of a mild obsession of mine. Old guides occasionally pop up for bid on e-bay (before I left to go hiking, a 1937 Maine guide went for $168). I would love to someday put something together either in print or online, but alas, I have yet to encounter a favorable financial situation for this sort of endevor.