View Full Version : Winter Pad Selections
Hi W-Blazers,
Winter is approaching and I have been gearing up for cold weather (single digits). I am ready to upgrade my pad.
What winter pad do you use and what R value is it rated?
Please note if you are a ground dweller or a hanger.
Thanks for your responses.
Egads
I usually just double up whatever I use for three season. At least one will be a full length. I have no Idea what their R value is. Generally a full length Z-rest or Ridge-rest (tho I generally think a solid pad, like a cheapo blue pad is warmer than the waffled ones) and a 3/4 length Thermarest. This has always allowed me to sleep comfortably into the teens and occasionally single digits. Go any lower and I would surely want two full length pads.
This is for ground sleeping. Have just started hanging this past summer, so have no info on what works for me in that situation.
for single digits I go with 4 of the blue closed cell foam pads from wally world with appropriate corners trimmed off, strapped together into a stack, for use in my hammock - not sure on R factor - probably in the range of 6 to 8 but that is just a guess
take-a-knee
11-04-2007, 15:14
In a hammock, dont' know yet. On the ground, a full length ridge rest (my daughter took my Zrest away from me) and a 3/4 length thermarest. I plan to buy a 3/4 prolite 3 to cut some weight.
whitefoot_hp
11-04-2007, 16:00
3-4 feet of 1/2 inch wally world foam under my short big agnes insulated air pad combined w/ my pack for leg insulation.
Alligator
11-04-2007, 20:14
Cheapie blue foam pad with a Thermarest Prolite 4 for the ground.
Tipi Walter
11-04-2007, 21:17
R values are pretty important to help in choosing a pad but individual choice is so varied as to be practically meaningless when recommending one. I notice a lot of winter backpackers end up using two or more pads but in my mind one is bulky enough and one is good enough. The one that is choosen, though, is important.
I used to try and use a foam RidgeRest but on frozen snow and ice it just did not keep me warm. I've been thru the whole Thermarest line and so I'm currently using an Expedition Large which has been discontinued but replaced with the Trail Comfort pads. The Prolite 4 large is another great pad for the winter though even it might not be warm enough for cold sleepers. The thicker thermarests, 1.75 to 2 inches, are just about perfect and I definitely like the large models(25x77 inches)for spreading out on.
Though expensive, the Exped Downmats look promising though there is some concern about the inflating technique as the human lungs are not recommended, instead a strange packsac bellows must be imployed. And they are pricey. For the winter, I'd go with Thermarest and pick the thickest one you are willing to carry.
jacks r' better has a nice pad, that secures to their quilts, eliminating the extra weight of the bottom of the sleeping bag. And its interchangeable with any quilt. Not sure how well it works for winter use, but Im sure you can put another pad in it too.
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Pad.htm
Good discussion of pads for winter camping at Mara Factor's (http://friends.backcountry.net/m_factor/pad.html) site. Mara concludes that closed-cell pads are better than Thermarest for "insulating power."
Gossamer Gear Thinlite 1/4" foam insulation pad (full length) coupled with my usual z-lite cut to torso length.
Though expensive, the Exped Downmats look promising though there is some concern about the inflating technique as the human lungs are not recommended, instead a strange packsac bellows must be imployed. And they are pricey.
The Exped downmats are OK in the cold but they do have one effect that caused me to stick a ccf pad on top - when you first get on the pad there is significant heat lost from your body just to warm up the downmat - depending on the temperature and the size of the mat this can translate into 30 minutes or more of feeling very cold. With the CCF pad on top of the downmat the rate of heat loss to warming up the pad is slowed significantly and it does not feel so cold at the start. WRT the use of the packsac bellows - one isn't required to use the sack - I made an adaptor for the Coghlans hand held air pump and that is what I used for most of the time I was using the downmat. As with all things inflatable remember you will eventually get a flat and in the cold that can really suck. This last item is the reason I switched to using ccf pads - the ccf pads may be a problem packing in an ordinary pack but you never have to worry about getting a flat. I use a Gearskin for my pack and this works well for the stack of ccf pads that I use in the winter.
I agree with HOI. Air mattresses are giant heatsinks, and not suitable for real cold temperatures. Insulated air mattresses are better, but still not suitable, in my opinion.
The best thermal barrier comes from a closed cell foam pad. Avoid the accordian and waffle style pads. These offer very little insulation in the dimples and folds.
I've used volara foam and ensolite pads down to -40F. For 3-season use, I like a 1/2" pad. For winter use, I prefer a 5/8" pad.
generoll
11-05-2007, 21:28
Roland, where do you get the thicker CCF pads?
I agree with HOI. Air mattresses are giant heatsinks, and not suitable for real cold temperatures. Insulated air mattresses are better, but still not suitable, in my opinion.
One way I've dealt with that problem is to use an insulated air mattress UNDER a CCF pad. That seems to be warmer than having a thin CCF pad (like a Z-Rest) right on a cold shelter floor or very cold soil, but it avoids the heat-sink effect of lying directly on an air mattress.
Warmest of all...bed down on some natural insulation, like a thick bed of dry leaves, with the mattresses on top of that. Very comfy.
Survivor Dave
11-05-2007, 21:37
Hi W-Blazers,
Winter is approaching and I have been gearing up for cold weather (single digits). I am ready to upgrade my pad.
What winter pad do you use and what R value is it rated?
Please note if you are a ground dweller or a hanger.
Thanks for your responses.
Egads
Egads,
I use a small Thermarest Trail Lite pad. 20x47x1.5. Since I sleep on my side and curled up, it works well. The R value is 3.8. I use the pack as the headrest and my feet do not extend past the end of the pad. It weighs 1lb. 2 1/2 oz. ....on my scale. Thermarest says 1 lb. 5 oz. I'm not complaining.
Hope it might help if you sleep the same way.
SD
Tipi Walter
11-05-2007, 21:49
Ok, I'm willing to renounce the Thermarest cult, so clue me in on good closed cell foam pads. I hate the bulk(strapped uncoolly on the outside of the pack)but who makes the best? Is there a 1 inch? A 2 inch? Thickwize, that is.
generoll
11-05-2007, 21:50
Does anyone remember the old trail books that talked about "bough beds"? I can just imagine the howls of outrage.
EAnderson
11-06-2007, 00:25
I like my Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mattress. I think it is a few inches thick, and has primaloft inside for insulation. It claims to work to 15 degrees, but I have to use a foam pad underneath when it gets below 20. It is a very comfortable pad. It packs small, and is fairly light for an inflatable pad. Easier to fold and pack than my old Thermarest inflatable. I'm getting too old (or spoiled) for just a foam pad. It is not self-inflating, but only takes a minute to blow up.
Roland, where do you get the thicker CCF pads?
Mine were purchased from a local outfitter specializing in mountaineering equipment. You can also buy CCF foam, online. I found this vendor (http://www.foamorder.com/closedcell.html) through Google, though I've never ordered from them. They offer CCF foam from 1/8" to 4" thick.
I agree with HOI. Air mattresses are giant heatsinks, and not suitable for real cold temperatures. Insulated air mattresses are better, but still not suitable, in my opinion.
One way I've dealt with that problem is to use an insulated air mattress UNDER a CCF pad. That seems to be warmer than having a thin CCF pad (like a Z-Rest) right on a cold shelter floor or very cold soil, but it avoids the heat-sink effect of lying directly on an air mattress.
Warmest of all...bed down on some natural insulation, like a thick bed of dry leaves, with the mattresses on top of that. Very comfy.
Yes, I'm sure that would work. The CCF pad acts as a thermal break between your body and the air mattress, therefore your body heat isn't being robbed by the air mattress.
However, in my opinion, the second mattress is redundant and unnecessary. Yes, it may enhance comfort, but the thick loft of a good winter bag provides enough padding for me. Plus, I'm a weenie. A winter pack in the Whites is heavy enough, without the addition of a 2 pound air mattress. :D
YMMV
...Plus, I'm a weenie. A winter pack in the Whites is heavy enough, without the addition of a 2 pound air mattress. :D
There are many types of weenies. Weight weenies. Comfort weenies. We all have to choose our own sort of weenie-dom. ;)
I probably wouldn't carry an air mattress in the Whites in the winter, either. But in NC, if I might be sleeping in a shelter, I would.