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Chappy
11-29-2003, 23:42
If a hiker has a medical condition which necessitates frequent trips during the night for bladder relief, is it best if the hiker tents instead of using the shelter (if others are using the shelter)? Your thoughts and experiences...

Youngblood
11-30-2003, 09:19
My thought is that if someone doesn't want to be bothered by other people, then THEY shouldn't stay in the shelter. It is pretty much impossible to stay in a shelter and not notice that there are other people there, especially when they fill-up. People sometimes snore, sometimes have to pee in the middle of the night, sometimes people want to stay up late, sometimes people want to talk, sometimes people want to get up early, sometimes people turn & toss at night, etc. I also realize that some people snore all the time, some people have bladder problems, some people always stay up late, some people always get up early, some people toss & turn every night, some people even hike at night and come in the shelters after most people are asleep. But, the shelters are there for everyone-- and for good reason. They are not there just for the few that are 'perfect in every way'. With that said, it is also common decency to try to minimize your impact on the other folks who are using the shelter.

Good ear plugs can solve a lot of problems.

Youngblood

Lone Wolf
11-30-2003, 09:49
Shelters are first come, first served. If you choose to stay in a crowded square box instead of camping in the thousands of acres around you, deal with it. Get ear plugs. Pretty simple.

Kerosene
11-30-2003, 11:25
If you're going to use the shelters, you've got to bring earplugs (less than a quarter ounce). Even then, they may not be sufficient to muffle the professional snorer.

Crash
11-30-2003, 14:17
With that said, it is also common decency to try to minimize your impact on the other folks who are using the shelter.
Youngblood

"COMMON DECENCY" is non-existant.

Bankrobber
11-30-2003, 15:25
Use a catheter... Just kidding.
In an ideal world, everyone in shelters would go to sleep at nightfall, not snore, and not move. But this is just not the case. If a shelter has more than one or two people in it, I will camp somewhere else unless it is raining. If there is no chance of rain, I will usually cowboy if I can find a flatspot.
It would be nice if that hiker who has to piss every few hours would camp. If not, than try not to shine the flashlight on everyone's face when going to and from the bathroom. If you have to go, you have to go.
I always think it is funny when there is some old grump in a shelter who flips out when anyone moves or snores.

oruoja
11-30-2003, 15:26
The shelters are for everyone if they choose to use them which carries the inherent risks, human and rodent. In my experience over the years the biggest complainers appear to be devout disciples of the ever more prominant doctrine of political correctness in which where one says, acts, or is percieved to think in such a way which one feels to be objectionable, then they are deemed to be offensive and wrong. An alternative for these folks to enjoy the ammenities of shelters would be to fund an alternative shelter system which carries steep fees with strict covenants for membership. Afterall, I have read that in some metro areas they have created a second class of HOV lane for the commute in which access is allowed by a sliding fee. As ridiculous as this may sound it could become a reality when years from now 10,000 plus NOBOs are jockying for position.

Doctari
11-30-2003, 20:03
If a hiker has a medical condition which necessitates frequent trips during the night for bladder relief, is it best if the hiker tents instead of using the shelter (if others are using the shelter)? Your thoughts and experiences...

I'm guilty. Not a medical problem, I got dehydrated once (4 hours in the hospital ER for 2,000 cc's of IV fluid cause of it), so am seriously parinoid about it & I drink WAY too much!

I also snore, no not your normal snoring, I have helped clear a shelter, and caused a few to not stay with me the 2nd night :p

SOOOO, I do my best to tent out. Just out of courtesy for those who stay in the shelter.

And, it is easy for me to tent, mine sets up in less than 3 minutes, so why not.


Doctari.


:dance

Chappy
11-30-2003, 23:04
Thanks for the replies. My intent is to tent whenever possible, just trying to learn more about the shelter community.

Do all shelters have mice? Does the weather have much of an impact on the numbers? Cold, wet, etc.

Kerosene
11-30-2003, 23:58
Chappy:

You should expect that every shelter will have at least one resident rodent of some sort (sometimes it's a rat). The shelter register may give you an idea of what to expect, but I would always plan on hanging your food and opening up all the pockets in your pack.

While I can't comment on winter rodent populations, they are certainly strong the other three seasons.

I did sleep in the raised, all-plywood Catawba Shelter outside of Roanoke last month. While I'm pretty sure I heard one of the buggers underneath the shelter, there didn't seem to be an easy way for them to get in, and if they did manage to get in, the only way out was to jump over the side or climb down the steps. That said, there were some heavy duty food bag hangers in the shelter.

alpine
12-01-2003, 09:02
with drawn

Blue Jay
12-01-2003, 09:12
Do all shelters have mice? Does the weather have much of an impact on the numbers? Cold, wet, etc.

Actually a few shelters in the south have snakes and no mice. These are wonderful and I always stay in them, because they also do not have snorers. My favorite one in Georgia was full when I got there, so I waited and late in the afternoon the resident black snake came in and cleared it out. I took one corner and it took the other one. The Priest Shelter used to have a resident rattle snake but I heard some idiot killed it, damn.

Grampie
12-01-2003, 11:13
Hi Gang,
I snore, so during my 2001 thru I would sleep in my tent as much as possiable. If I used a shelter, mostly in bad weather, I would tell everybody that "I snore". Yes, I did take some crap from others, and I had some folks move out when they saw that I was staying in the shelter. I had one hiker gal beat the crap out of me, when she slept next to me and I snored. She apoliged to me in the morning and I told her it made me feel right at home. My wife does that to me often.
As they say,"it's all part of the hike."

Rain Man
12-01-2003, 11:21
Actually a few shelters in the south have snakes and no mice. These are wonderful and I always stay in them, because they also do not have snorers. My favorite one in Georgia was full when I got there, so I waited and late in the afternoon the resident black snake came in and cleared it out. I took one corner and it took the other one. The Priest Shelter used to have a resident rattle snake but I heard some idiot killed it, damn.

Blue Jay,

Heck, a Black Snake can come stay in my sleeping bag with me, or better yet... in my pack!!! I'd much rather have a snake in the night than a mouse and all his family all over me!!!

Kill a rattler? The jerks. I guess they want 'em to go the way of so many other native species (extinction)?

Rain Man

U-BOLT
12-01-2003, 23:23
I hate it when the shelter is crowded at dinnertime and a hiker looks at his food and exclaims "WHAT?!! Mac 'n cheese AGAIN?!" and throws his pot open-side against the wall (SPLAT~). Very bad etiquette.

eldwayno
12-31-2003, 03:21
So what's the deal on snorers... I mean I want to get the whole thru-hiking experience, with staying in shelters with folks and all but I do have a snoring "problem". Should I just suck it up and tent it, or should they suck it up and deal, I don't want to force myself upon anyone, but I have every right to a spot in a shelter as they do. I'm just wondering.

komodo
12-31-2003, 03:45
I don't want to force myself upon anyone, but I have every right to a spot in a shelter as they do. I'm just wondering.

There are medical solutions out there to help people stop snoring-- nasal strips and such that don't weigh much. I know those don't work for everyone, but it might be something to look into if you're a chronic snorer and plan to spend a lot of nights in shelters.

Just be forewarned-- if you do snore in shelters, and I happen to be sharing that shelter with you, I will be more than willing to jab you with the carbide tip of a Leki hiking pole everytime you wake me up. You wanna snore, fine, but I'll be darned if I'm not going to share some of my misery with you. :D

Blue Jay
12-31-2003, 09:02
So what's the deal on snorers... I mean I want to get the whole thru-hiking experience, with staying in shelters with folks and all but I do have a snoring "problem". Should I just suck it up and tent it, or should they suck it up and deal, I don't want to force myself upon anyone, but I have every right to a spot in a shelter as they do. I'm just wondering.

Snoring does not usually bother me unless it is at chainsaw volume. If you know you snore it is poor etiquette to force yourself on others, just like bringing a wet dog into the shelter. Do many people do it and do they have a right to do it, yes. Do others have to deal with it, clearly yes. However, it is just plain common decency not to force others to leave a shelter just to be able to sleep. At least let the others know that you are offensive ahead of time, so they can decide.

Hammock Hanger
12-31-2003, 11:22
If a hiker has a medical condition which necessitates frequent trips during the night for bladder relief, is it best if the hiker tents instead of using the shelter (if others are using the shelter)? Your thoughts and experiences...
A number of the male hikers I was with used a "golden jug" at night. It was very easy for them to do this inside the sleeping bag. In the moring they would discreetly bring it out to the woods to empty. Give it a rinse and pack it away.

Not to start a new thread, but some used it solely for "pee". Others used is as their daily water bottle. To each his own.

Good Luck on your hike.

Sue/HH

Rain Man
12-31-2003, 12:33
So what's the deal on snorers... I mean I want to get the whole thru-hiking experience, with staying in shelters with folks and all but I do have a snoring "problem". Should I just suck it up and tent it, or should they suck it up and deal, I don't want to force myself upon anyone, but I have every right to a spot in a shelter as they do. I'm just wondering.

I imagine a snorer has as much right in a shelter as a stinky hiker. At least with a snorer, it is EASY for anyone who is not a sound sleeper to slap in a couple of ear plugs. You can do without hearing. Can't do without breathing. Besides, a smelly hiker can wash up. A snoring hiker can't do much.

Maybe all the hikers who snore and all the hikers who smell bad should tent camp? Hmmmmmmmm.....

It's probably the hiker who complains the most about smells and sounds who really ought to be out in a tent by himself. Don't you think?

Rain Man

.

tribes
12-31-2003, 14:59
Here is my take on snorers and shelter ettiquette. Shelter space is determined on a first come first serve basis. This is commonly accepted. Are there any rules in place that govern snorers? No there is not. So if you snore and there is space in the shelter then you have every right to move into the open spot for the night. Will all the other hikers that stay with you that night have to "deal"? Yes, they sure will.

With all that being said, I would like to point out the topic of this thread, which is "Shelter Ettiquette". The only problem with snorers is the noise that their snoring creates and sometimes the vibration and rattling of the shelter walls, roof, etc....(most have spent at least one night with a chainsaw snorer). Snorers who know they snore and stay in a shelter knowing they may keep others awake all night to are inconsiderate if you ask me. If they were to stay up all night being noisy and talking one would probably consider them rude and I would venture to say that some may even "shoosh" them. Noise is noise....sleeping or not. If you choose to stay in a shelter and you are a bad snorer, you are saying that you do not care if everyone else in this shelter doesn't get a wink of sleep. In my opinion.....bad etiquette.

:bse I agree with you totally Komodo on the leki thing. When someone comes to a shelter and warns of their snoring we forwarn, "poking rule" in effect". :bse

oyvay
12-31-2003, 15:11
To all the hikers that poke snorers to stop them from snoring, may you all get leki shoved where the sun don't shine! The shelters are first come first served, rain or not, snorers, stinkers, all are welcome.
Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to sleep in the shelters. Tents are warmer when it's cold out and bug free when it's warm(I've "donated" a lot of blood to the local mosquito population by sleeping in the shelters). :banana

Former Easy
12-31-2003, 16:13
My top three shelter annoyances are as follows:

1) Gearheads .......... these folks talk about gear every waking minute, nobody gives a ratz a$$ what kind of gear they carry.

2) Late Arrivers .............. these folks usually walk into a shelter area after dark and when everyone is just about to fall asleep, nobody gives a ratz a$$ if they hiked 25 miles or not.

3) Whiners .............. those that bitch about the trail conditions, their blisters, whine about other hikers etc........

I don't stay in shelters often but when I do these are my top 3 annoyances. I do snore and will stay in a shelter only if the weather is really bad or I'm forced to stay in a shelter, like in the Smoky's (however never again, i'll risk the fine). I have mentioned that I snored to others and have had no problems other than a few humorous comments I can handle. However should someone poke me with a hiking pole I would take that as a threat of bodily harm and my common courtesy ends there .......

Chappy
12-31-2003, 18:46
Originally Posted by Former Easy
I don't stay in shelters often but when I do these are my top 3 annoyances. I do snore and will stay in a shelter only if the weather is really bad or I'm forced to stay in a shelter, like in the Smoky's (however never again, i'll risk the fine). I have mentioned that I snored to others and have had no problems other than a few humorous comments I can handle. However should someone poke me with a hiking pole I would take that as a threat of bodily harm and my common courtesy ends there .......This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.

Footslogger
12-31-2003, 21:29
I say sleep wherever you're comfortable sleeping. Can't remember a night in a shelter where at least one person had to get up in the night to water the lillies. It's just not a problem ...unless you make it one by being really noisey. Problem with getting up in the middle of the night to pee when you're sleeping in a shelter is that just about everyone goes directly behind the shelter to do their business. Suggestion would be to walk a little distance away from the shelter before off loading liquid waste.

Another option is to carry a "pee bottle". It is pretty easy in a shelter (at least for guys) to discretely fill a bottle with pee and then get up in the morning and find an appropriate place to dump the contents.

Footslogger
12-31-2003, 21:32
This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.
Chappy ...if shelters are full in the Smokies you can tent in that general area. I'm a relatively slow hiker and generaly found the shelters to be full when I arrived at night. I tented about half the time while I was in the Smokies and never had a problem You definitely want to try and camp in or near the shelters in the Smokies thought because that's where the water sources are.

Hammock Hanger
12-31-2003, 23:37
Originally Posted by Chappy
This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. ThanksDepending on the time of year that you go sleeping in your tent can be a good thing. It is usually much warmer then the shelters. AND no one will knot up the chain...which makes it almost impossible to get out anf pee in the wee hours of the morning. I speak from experience.:bse

Sue/Hammock Hanger

Valmet
01-01-2004, 09:47
I have not stayed in a shelter in the past 7 or 8 years. That way I don't bother anyone and they do not bother me. I have had very good experiences and very bad experiences in a shelter. But the main reason is the mice, I just can't stand the mice. I have had some very funny experiences in a shelter. Once in the smokies at Spence Field shelter one night a couple became amourous on the top bunk. No one was sleeping and then a big booming voice from below said "if anything drips on me I coming up there". The whole place erupted in laughter. The guy had convinced her everyone was sleeping.

Jaybird
01-01-2004, 10:42
My, my...where is Miss Manners when U need her???????????

hehehehehehe ;)

i snore, a bit, & usually fore-warn all those around me of the fact...other than that....i usually tent in fair weather & only use shelters on rain-soaked nights (or worse).

i think the loudest SNORE Chorus i've ever heard was @ Deep Gap shelter May 2002....Alabam, Not Keith, Mad Musician, Bootless, Yankee Clipper, Jaybird & TeePee & a few more (that snuck in during the nite) had a decibel level approaching the ULTRA-RED ZONE.


good luck & grab the ear-plugs!

see U up the trail in 2004!

Skyline
01-01-2004, 11:29
If you know you are a light sleeper, and you know other people's habits, mice, etc. (whether incidental or inconsiderate) are going to bother you, why would you choose to stay where these things will affect you? It's not about who is right or wrong, it's about getting a good night's sleep. So I tent 97% of the time.

Having said that, one night at Vanderventer in '97 I was tenting at least 150 feet away when three hikers were using the shelter. One's trail name was "Amtrak," earned no doubt because his snoring decibel approached that of a diesel engine. Way out there in my tent, it was loud enough that it seemed he was right next to me. How in the world those other two tolerated it inside the shelter is baffling. But maybe they were very sound sleepers . . . which kinda goes back to my point in the first paragraph.

Brushy Sage
01-01-2004, 11:46
I snored occasionally, and sometimes I got up to pee during the night, and nobody ever complained. Maybe it was because of my white hair. Anyhow, thanks to all who put up with it!

Alligator
01-01-2004, 16:54
This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.

There are a couple of places in the Smokies where you can leave the trail and hike to tent sites. The elevation drop/gain can be steep, but it is worth it if you don't wish to be tied to the shelters. We I did the smokies, I only stayed in the shelters half the time.

Lemni Skate
10-13-2008, 13:04
I snore. I know this so I tent. I love the company of other hikers when we're sitting around talking and eating, but I don't want to be jabbed and awakened in other ways.

My solution...I take the tent site farthest from the rest of the people, and when they start to bore me, I go to my tent and sleep.

When the topic comes up people usually thank me for being so considerate.

Now, if the weather is terrible, then I will get in the shelter. I figure, I've been considerate for 95% of the time, if there's a downpour then I ought to get some love back.

I've never had anyone complain about me being in the shelter in those circumstances.

By the way, I'm a member of the PATC and the ATC. I pay my dues, I do trail work. I've also been known to leave some beer, sodas, and cookies and jerky near the trail for thru-hikers. I figure I have a right to the shelter when I need it.

earlyriser26
10-13-2008, 15:26
If you stay in a shelter and have any expectations of sleep, you are crazy. Bring a tent. I haven't stayed in a shelter in over 20 years. They do make good emergency shelters and places to eat lunch.

Jack Tarlin
10-14-2008, 12:45
Interesting thread and I'm glad someone revided it.

My quick take: I agree with the folks who've said that if you can't deal with the various annoyances and problems caused by a communal lodging/sleeping arrangement, then you'd probably do well to avoid shelters altogether.

That being said, shelters are primarily a place for folks to sleep. If you anticipate behaving in ANY sort of activity that might result in disturbing your fellow hikers, and especially disturbing their right to a good night's sleep, then you'd be well advised to also avoid shelters.

Some examples of activities that'd be likely to disturb others:

*Arriving late in the day (or at night) and moving into the shelter after folks
have gone to sleep
*Packing up and leaving the shelter really early in the morning
*Overly loud radios or music players
*Leaving your cell phone on so as to avoid incoming calls
*Excessive snoring; talking in your sleep; thrashing around, etc.
*Talking with others after it's clear that some folks have gone to bed
*Getting up frequently all thru the night

jersey joe
10-14-2008, 13:05
Jack, I agree with your reasons above except for the first two. If I stay in a shelter I typically have no issue if someone wants to wake up early and start hiking. I also see no problem with a weary hiker arriving late as long as they are somewhat respectful.

Usually after a hard day of hiking someone getting up in the middle of the night to pee once or twice isn't going to bother me very much.

Lone Wolf
10-14-2008, 13:07
Shelters are first come, first served. If you choose to stay in a crowded square box instead of camping in the thousands of acres around you, deal with it. Get ear plugs. Pretty simple.

5 years later i still feel the same. everybody has a right to shelters. late comers, early risers, snorers, cell users, etc

Tin Man
10-14-2008, 14:01
5 years later i still feel the same. everybody has a right to shelters. late comers, early risers, snorers, cell users, etc

yep, and the people who have figured it out, tent.

kanga
10-14-2008, 14:28
if you're in a shelter, you share the shelter. with all kinds. deal with it or tent.

Jack Tarlin
10-14-2008, 14:40
Gotta disagree with the sentiment "Deal with it or tent".

I absolutely agree that many folks who are troubled by some of the behavior and actions of others would do well to tent as opposed to staying in the shelter, but this doesn't mean that ANY sort of behavior is acceptable or should be tolerated. When one says "Deal with or tent" it seems that one is saying you have to put up with ANYTHING you encounter in the shelter, and there are all sorts of behaviors and actions that one shouldn't have to put up with. Engagining in behavior that is liable to bother or disturb other people who are sharing communal space is simply rude, and this includes all sorts of activities. One shouldn't have to "deal with" a group of people publicly doing drugs; one whouldn't have to "deal with" people who noisily decide to play cards til two in the morning; one shouldn't have to "deal with" someone who decides to enter a shelter at minight and then noisily unpacks his stuff and starts cooking dinner. There are all sorts of things one shouldn't have to "deal with" or tolerate.

In short, there are all sorts of activities that are downright inconsiderate, and people shouldn't have to put up with this. There are certain things one should be willing to put up with if one elects to stay in a Trail shelter, but one shouldn't be expected to graciously put up with ANYTHING. There are some behaviors and actions that are simply unfair to others if not outride rude, and these are not things for which the correcrt response is "Deal with it!"

Tin Man
10-14-2008, 14:50
Unfortunately Jack, the rudeness meter appears to be an individual thing. Not all agree that their behavior is rude or inappropriate. If one is at some venue where you paid for your seat, then sure the rudeness meter is pretty obvious and one needs to speak up. When one is in the woods away from society, many folks feel they can do whatever they please and don't care about what others considers to be rude. At shelters the rudeness level starts with the mice and spiders and goes downhill from there. By dealing with it, you can either say something (which ain't likely to get you very far), accept it, or move on. No biggee.

Jack Tarlin
10-14-2008, 14:51
No biggee for me.

I don't stay in shelters. :D

But even so, there are certain things that folks shouldn't have to put up with. Inconsideration towards others is rude, period.

Tin Man
10-14-2008, 15:01
I avoid sleeping in shelters myself.

But, you can meet some very nice folks there and have some interesting conversations. Once the idiots show up, it's time to move on. No sense in trying to educate them, unless you consider that part of your fun on the trail. :D

daddytwosticks
10-14-2008, 16:26
Sleeping in a shelter is alot like going to out to see a movie....if I'm comfortable, like what I see and experience, and enjoy the entertainment, I stay. If not, I leave and set up my tent somewhere else!

Jaybird
10-15-2008, 05:20
If a hiker has a medical condition which necessitates frequent trips during the night for bladder relief, is it best if the hiker tents instead of using the shelter (if others are using the shelter)? Your thoughts and experiences...


Most hikers are "DEAD TO THE WORLD"...when they fall asleep....so, getting up in the middle of the nite to take a "NATURE BREAK"...usually doesnt bother anyone.:D

earlyriser26
10-15-2008, 06:30
5 years later i still feel the same. everybody has a right to shelters. late comers, early risers, snorers, cell users, etc

I'm glad early risers can use shelters too:rolleyes:

Egads
10-15-2008, 06:35
It's a known fact that early risers have the power to exact revenge on the noisy late arriver.:D

kanga
10-15-2008, 08:52
Gotta disagree with the sentiment "Deal with it or tent".

I absolutely agree that many folks who are troubled by some of the behavior and actions of others would do well to tent as opposed to staying in the shelter, but this doesn't mean that ANY sort of behavior is acceptable or should be tolerated. When one says "Deal with or tent" it seems that one is saying you have to put up with ANYTHING you encounter in the shelter, and there are all sorts of behaviors and actions that one shouldn't have to put up with. Engagining in behavior that is liable to bother or disturb other people who are sharing communal space is simply rude, and this includes all sorts of activities. One shouldn't have to "deal with" a group of people publicly doing drugs; one whouldn't have to "deal with" people who noisily decide to play cards til two in the morning; one shouldn't have to "deal with" someone who decides to enter a shelter at minight and then noisily unpacks his stuff and starts cooking dinner. There are all sorts of things one shouldn't have to "deal with" or tolerate.

In short, there are all sorts of activities that are downright inconsiderate, and people shouldn't have to put up with this. There are certain things one should be willing to put up with if one elects to stay in a Trail shelter, but one shouldn't be expected to graciously put up with ANYTHING. There are some behaviors and actions that are simply unfair to others if not outride rude, and these are not things for which the correcrt response is "Deal with it!"

i totally agree with you, jack, you shouldn't have to put up with inconsiderate behavior, but like tm said, some people just don't care. i have met some of the rudest people in the world in a shelter. entitled is probably a better word, though. but short of starting a shelter brawl, with some there's not much impression you're going to make on their rude behavior. therefore, my sentiment, "deal with it or tent". if you're going to stay in a shelter and you find you can't deal with some of the behavior that's going on in it and you can't get the people to stop it, then you're going to have to be prepared to tent.

superman
10-15-2008, 09:27
At least the AT doesn't have the horde of college students as the LT does. Every fall just before college starts they send the new freshman kids to the woods ...just to annoy me. They are akin to a swarm of locusts but without as much trail etiquette. Iíve even waited til dusk to put up my tent, I put it up and here comes the herd. Itís not that you need to be near them. They are so loud, so late that being on the same side of a mountain is too close. The LT used to be my favorite local trail but I think Iíll do my fall hiking on the COHOS. Fall hiking is my favorite.

rhjanes
10-15-2008, 10:16
I'm just remembering the hikers and their trail-journals, of this past year. Fussing because "with all those people, we couldn't have sex in the shelters".....

Marta
10-15-2008, 10:36
In a nutshell, I think most people operate on a sort of loose "Golden Rule" premise. The problem is that cell phone users aren't bothered by people talking on cell phones and don't see why anyone else would be; smokers often aren't bothered by smoke, so don't see that anyone else should be; people with dogs...; people with small children...; people who get way too drunk...; people who use foul language...; people who strew their stuff all over the place...

As has been said many times already, if you have a thin skin, shelters are not for you.

Cookerhiker
10-15-2008, 10:55
At least the AT doesn't have the horde of college students as the LT does. Every fall just before college starts they send the new freshman kids to the woods ...just to annoy me. They are akin to a swarm of locusts but without as much trail etiquette. Iíve even waited til dusk to put up my tent, I put it up and here comes the herd. Itís not that you need to be near them. They are so loud, so late that being on the same side of a mountain is too close. The LT used to be my favorite local trail but I think Iíll do my fall hiking on the COHOS. Fall hiking is my favorite.

Sorry for your bad experience; mine have all been positive. On my LT hike last year (http://www.trailjournals.com/cookerhikerlt07/), I ran into at least 5 separate groups of college students and had no problems whatsoever - they were all good kids and it was obvious to me that their leaders had "schooled" them in trail etiquette. Last month hiking in the White Mountains, a group camped near us by Guyot Campsite - again, no problems. Hiking Maine in 2005, a group from Tufts camped near us at Piazza Rock LT (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=114755) and likewise, a group from Bowdin at Bemis LT (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=114619). They were not noisy or disruptive at all.

Rain Man
10-15-2008, 11:10
Some examples of activities that'd be likely to disturb others:

*Excessive snoring; talking in your sleep; thrashing around, etc.

Not that I disagree, but I do find it curious that some hikers say something along this line--

"My auditory sense is more important that your olfactory sense, so you can't snore enough to keep me awake, but I can stink enough to keep you awake."

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. In my book if unnecessary snoring is verboten, then so is unnecessary stinking.

I smell better than I hear, or else I deal with sound better than with smell when sleepy.

A more complete statement of Jack's "rule" might be: "If you snore or stink excessively, or if you are too easily bothered by sounds or smells, then shelters might not be for you and you should tent."

Rain:sunMan

.

Chaco Taco
10-15-2008, 11:21
If a hiker has a medical condition which necessitates frequent trips during the night for bladder relief, is it best if the hiker tents instead of using the shelter (if others are using the shelter)? Your thoughts and experiences...
If you choose to stay in a shelter with multiple people its just something you have to deal with. The problem I saw was when people would stay in shelters and had to go frequently, be considerate of your neighbor and dont lauch a boot into there back each and every time you get up. Anyone that uses bottles better get the heck outta the shelter, it is so nasty. Had someone get there nalgene mixed up with mine one time and pee'd in it. No joke, true story. In terms of snoring, this is a sensitive topic for me. I only stayed in shelters in times of really bad weather and the snorers always slept next to me. I agree with you about the ear plug thing, BUT there are some of us who have ear issues and cannot cram these things in our ears. They are not really very good for your inner ear, they can chip off and get lodged in your ear, has happened to me, not pleasant walking the next day. Be kind to one another. If you have a problem with someone getting up loudly or pushing people in their bags, just be nice and tell them, "Hey, Im trying to sleep here.":D

Chaco Taco
10-15-2008, 11:22
I'm just remembering the hikers and their trail-journals, of this past year. Fussing because "with all those people, we couldn't have sex in the shelters".....

Those people should be strung up from a bear line by there toes. Pitch a tent in your tent.:rolleyes:

Bearpaw88
10-15-2008, 13:37
i totally agree with you, jack, you shouldn't have to put up with inconsiderate behavior, but like tm said, some people just don't care. i have met some of the rudest people in the world in a shelter. entitled is probably a better word, though. but short of starting a shelter brawl, with some there's not much impression you're going to make on their rude behavior.

Entitled, good word for much of the attitude problems on trail. In some cases people are unaware they are being rude or in any way inappropriate and if someone informs them of it they will stop and apologize. BUT, most of them, like you said, don't care.

Shelter etiquette is kind of an oximoron anyway. Everytime I have stayed at a shelter, unless I was alone, there is always someone doing something that at least one other person will find irritating.

I usually just dealt with it unless they were doing something completely F'ed up like masterbating loudly.

Eventually I stopped staying at shelters all togeather. I have a much better night sleep, privacy, and maintain sanity. I liked to stop at them to eat lunch and read the register then move on.

Kirby
10-15-2008, 14:25
I came to quickly love my tent during bug season.

Kirby

smokymtnsteve
10-15-2008, 14:51
at least on the southern part of the AT it is "thru-hikers" in the spring that are the most troublesome....therefore thru hikers shouldn't stay in shelters.

rickb
10-15-2008, 18:32
What do you guys think about the ethic of making yourself known in advance when coming up to a shelter "from behind" that might have people in it -- by whistling, asking hello, or just making a bit of extra noise.

So as not to startle people. Good form? Or nothing really worth thinking about.

daddytwosticks
10-15-2008, 19:00
How about dragging your feet and growling a bit! :)

Tin Man
10-15-2008, 23:21
What do you guys think about the ethic of making yourself known in advance when coming up to a shelter "from behind" that might have people in it -- by whistling, asking hello, or just making a bit of extra noise.

So as not to startle people. Good form? Or nothing really worth thinking about.

I usually yell a hello. No one likes surprises. I think the couple that I heard scrambling to get dressed in a hurry when I came upon a shelter from behind appreciated it.

mtt37849
10-15-2008, 23:35
"COMMON DECENCY" is non-existant.

Agree, "Common Decency" isn't too Common these days.

Bearpaw88
10-16-2008, 16:17
Agree, "Common Decency" isn't too Common these days.

These days? Was it ever?

smokymtnsteve
10-16-2008, 20:33
What do you guys think about the ethic of making yourself known in advance when coming up to a shelter "from behind" that might have people in it -- by whistling, asking hello, or just making a bit of extra noise.

So as not to startle people. Good form? Or nothing really worth thinking about.

I agree with it I usually sing, "whos that coming up eagle holler"

http://www.elephantrock.com/waysThatAreDark/song1.asp

cause inthe hills there are ways that are dark!

Jaybird
10-17-2008, 05:02
Not that I disagree, but...................................
I smell better than I hear, or else I deal with sound better than with smell when sleepy.A more complete statement of Jack's "rule" might be: "If you snore or stink excessively, or if you are too easily bothered by sounds or smells, then shelters might not be for you and you should tent."
Rain:sunMan.


WOW Rain Man!

If you're downing hikers for SMELLING...(or "stinking excessively")..you might wanna not go anywhere NEAR the shelters!

I'd be GLAD to STOP "stinking excessively" if you show me the showers along the A.T.!

I guessed i missed that in the Data book. hehehehehehe:D

daddytwosticks
10-17-2008, 07:47
My stink is worst than your stink..........:)

KG4FAM
10-17-2008, 08:04
My stink is worst than your stink..........:)A couple of years back I met some Nobos in Monson that claimed that they had not done proper laundry since Pennsylvania. I assummed that they washed out in the creeks, but I think they would take the cake on this one.

Rain Man
10-17-2008, 10:54
WOW Rain Man!

If you're downing hikers for SMELLING...(or "stinking excessively")..you might wanna not go anywhere NEAR the shelters!

I'd be GLAD to STOP "stinking excessively" if you show me the showers along the A.T.!

I guessed i missed that in the Data book. hehehehehehe:D

Naw, not downing hikers at all, just those who are hypocrites and cherry-pick what dis-qualifies someone from staying in a shelter. Snoring? You can wear earplugs. Also, it's not a choice on part of the snorer. Stink? Can't stop up your nose. And it is pretty much a choice on the part of the stinker. Too many folks want to say "_I_" am important and "_you_" are not. "_My_" concerns are real and "_yours_" don't count. Anyway, that's my opinion. All I asked was that stink be added to Jack's list. Nothing more.

As far as showers, there are lots of ways to keep the stink down on the trail. Perhaps a thread topic?

Rain:sunMan

.

Lone Wolf
10-17-2008, 11:03
shelters are for ALL hikers. first come, first served. period.

Tin Man
10-17-2008, 11:14
shelters are for ALL hikers. first come, first served. period.

what are they serving?

Lone Wolf
10-17-2008, 11:17
shelter space

Tin Man
10-17-2008, 11:33
so mice and filth are extra?

Jack Tarlin
10-17-2008, 17:48
All long-distance hikers stink, in varying degrees.

People overly sensitive to this should probably avoid shelters.

People REALLY overly sensitive to this should probably avoid other hikers. :D

Jaybird
10-18-2008, 05:55
All long-distance hikers stink, in varying degrees.
People overly sensitive to this should probably avoid shelters.
People REALLY overly sensitive to this should probably avoid other hikers. :D


AMEN, Bro.!
I think you've said it ALL, Jack!

NUFF SAID.:D

sheepdog
10-18-2008, 20:35
All long-distance hikers stink, in varying degrees.

People overly sensitive to this should probably avoid shelters.

People REALLY overly sensitive to this should probably avoid other hikers. :D
And never get downwind of themselves.:-?