View Full Version : Sleeping Systems HELP!?!
Passionphish
11-11-2007, 11:49
I was going through a gear shakedown at Mountain Crossings yesterday. My sleeping system is totally lacking. I was told to flat out rethink my system. So here is what I have and I need to be hammered with ideas! Criticize it to death!
Bag: Big Agnes - Horse Thief 35 degree
Pad: Pro lite 3 size small (3/4 length)
Shelter: MLD - Grace Solo Spinnaker Tarp & Bug Bivy
I'm thinking about swapping out the bug bivy for the REI basic bivy. I don't know. But one of the staff told me that the bag was not nearly warm enough. What do ya'll think?
Flush2wice
11-11-2007, 12:10
Warm enough for what? A thru hike? Depends on when your starting and which direction.
Just a Hiker
11-11-2007, 12:19
I feel that sleeping bags and other "sleep system" items are alot about personal choice and the individual. If you tend to sleep warm, then a 35 degree bag may be fine for you depending on your start date. As far as sleeping pads and shelters go, that depends on how much comfort you want on the trail. You are going to get alot of opinions on this, but you are the one who has to hump the gear, so make sure it's right for you. Just my opinion:D
Just Jim
Passionphish
11-11-2007, 12:21
Sorry guys! ITs for a thru hike in 08. We are starting mid to late march and ending sept or oct.
Could add a silk liner, adds roughly 9-10* of comfort to a bag. Also the bivy idea would probably add about 5*. May not be the ideal, but could probably make it work ok.
90% of any effective sleeping systems is hiking all day.
The other half is being dry, insulated from the ground, warm, and well fed. ;)
redrider
11-11-2007, 13:04
I love my Speers Hammock. I am off the ground and dry. I have a rain fly and bug net and the whole thing weighs less than a pound. I never need to look for a flat campsite, I just need two trees. I sleep cold so I still carry my therma rest and 20 degree bag. The hammock is about $200 if you buy it complete but if you have a sewing machine and some very basic skills you can buy the materials from Speerhammock.com for about $100.
But, I agree with everyone else. You have to find out what works for you. Get out in the woods and test it out before your trip. I left from Springer Mountain on March 30th last year for a spring break section hike and some days were warm while others were cold. We had snow on our 5th night out, But it was a blast. Good Luck :jump
Flush2wice
11-11-2007, 13:13
You'll need a warmer bag.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-11-2007, 13:29
Some thoughts from someone who has read a lot of the comments here, but doesn't have a lot of experience with the newfangled bags.
First, BA bags rely on the pad to provide insulation to the underside of the system (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_bag_home.php) and the Horse Thief (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_bags.php?id=ht) isn't one of their warmer bags. I would think going with a 3/4 length pad with a BA bag wouldn't be a good idea for that reason. (I use the BA insulated Air core pad (http://www.bigagnes.com/str_pads.php?id=ia) - and can testify to its comfort and warmth, but some have had them spring leaks.)
Second, NOBO'ers starting when you are usually encounter temps well below 35F the majority of nights. I would think a 20F bag or multipart system in that temp range would be the minimum for starting that time of year - and then I would have plenty of warm clothes in case mother nature decided to throw in a 0F night or two.
You'll need a warmer bag.
I second that emotion. A 20 degree bag should suffice. You may need to wear some extra clothes if it dips low - which it can do in the mountains up until mid-May. Every year, somebody sends their winter gear home in Damascus and freezes their tail in the Mt Rogers NRA.
iliketacos
11-11-2007, 13:46
A great topic. I would seriously recommend a synthetic zero bag and a pair of heavy heavy industrial sized fleece socks. The added weight could be off-set slightly by not having to bring a liner. If it gets any colder then what a zero bag can handle it's probably a safe bet to start a nice run, careful not to bust your @##, to the trail head and into town, imho.
I wish, nay prayed to the gods [shakes fist at sky], I had the zero bag a few times-plus you will have some added confidence (not too much mind you) from knowing you can hang in there if you get hit with some serious weather.
Man I'm feeling hpothermic again just writing this-thanks a lot :D:D
maxNcathy
11-11-2007, 13:51
I headed north March 19th last year...had 10F 800 down Moonstone PCT sleeping bag (2lb 10oz)with full zipper...it did the job perfectly...had warm nights so opened foot of bag...had 11F degrees near NOC and stayed cozy while many others shivered in their 20F and 30F sleeping bags.
This year I am taking my 20F bag starting April 2 but have light down jacket in case temps go lower than 20F.
Don't switch to a summer sleeping bag until summer.
Yeah, I agree with the opinion of using at least a 20 deg bag. I would not switch to a summer bag until I was in at least VA. The Smokies can drop in temp very quickly, and it is always better to be too warm, than shiver.
I have a Moonstone PCT 10deg bag and love it as well. I am looking to get a WM bag, so I will sell it it when that time comes. They do come up an e-bag from time to time.
Best of luck on your thru hike!
Cabana
Passionphish
11-11-2007, 16:16
I'm quickly on my way to broke for the gear side of this trip. That being said... what are the recomendations for a bag near $200?
Also, an idea I was kicking around was having MLD add a top layer to the bug bivy that will act as a sealed bivy. Maybe. Or just take a breathable bivy for the cold months. Would that plus a liner help me take this bag to 10 degrees? Or should I do all of that plus go with a colder rated bag?
Just a Hiker
11-11-2007, 16:24
I'm quickly on my way to broke for the gear side of this trip. That being said... what are the recomendations for a bag near $200?
Also, an idea I was kicking around was having MLD add a top layer to the bug bivy that will act as a sealed bivy. Maybe. Or just take a breathable bivy for the cold months. Would that plus a liner help me take this bag to 10 degrees? Or should I do all of that plus go with a colder rated bag?
I have a 20 degree Mountain Hardware down bag. It cost $200.00 and it's been good to me thus far.
Ideally a warmer bag. If you want to be comfortable down to 10* you probably won't make it using a 35* bag. A 20* bag with a silk liner and
bivey should get you there.
Campmor has TNF BlueKazoo on sale for $190. Not the lightest out there, but has been popular for a long time.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39201857&memberId=12500226
Other bags also on sale.
I think long wool underwear is a good combination with a down bag.
Haven't tried a silk liner yet, but I can vouch for the long wool underwear.
saimyoji
11-11-2007, 18:37
I'm quickly on my way to broke for the gear side of this trip. That being said... what are the recomendations for a bag near $200?
Also, an idea I was kicking around was having MLD add a top layer to the bug bivy that will act as a sealed bivy. Maybe. Or just take a breathable bivy for the cold months. Would that plus a liner help me take this bag to 10 degrees? Or should I do all of that plus go with a colder rated bag?
backcountrygear has the Marmot Pinnacle (15* 800 fp down 2lbs 8oz) on sale for $225 and free shipping. Sale ends tomorrow. :)
I have a 20 degree Mountain Hardware down bag. It cost $200.00 and it's been good to me thus far.
Which one? I tried the Piute 20* 600 fp down and didn't like it.
What system did you start with that they said was inadequate? had you used it in the cold before? how did you feel?
I was going through a gear shakedown at Mountain Crossings yesterday. My sleeping system is totally lacking. I was told to flat out rethink my system. So here is what I have and I need to be hammered with ideas! Criticize it to death!
Bag: Big Agnes - Horse Thief 35 degree
Pad: Pro lite 3 size small (3/4 length)
Shelter: MLD - Grace Solo Spinnaker Tarp & Bug Bivy
I'm thinking about swapping out the bug bivy for the REI basic bivy. I don't know. But one of the staff told me that the bag was not nearly warm enough. What do ya'll think?
I agree that the bag won't be warm enough, having hiked Georgia in March.
The first night it dipped below freezing, was warm the next 6 nights, and got cold again for the last night.
You may want to add a small "sit pad" of closed cell foam to put under your legs, especially if you have to sleep on snow.
A shaped tarp which you can pitch to the ground on all sides to block wind would help keep you warmer than the solo spinn tarp.
Yes, it would be nice to have a solid nylon top on your bivy on cold nights, though condensation might build up in your sleeping bag if you have a string of damp/rainy/snowy days.
Some people can get away with using a vapor barrier in their sleeping bags to lower the temp. rating. Using a vapor barrier, however, requires that you wear very little inside it because whatever you wear will become quite damp - also, getting up in the middle of the night requires you to have some warm clothing nearby to put on quickly before you get too chilled. It works, but it can drive you nuts.
Are you bringing an insulating layer? I think your best bet is to try your bag in the yard this winter are various temperatures and with your insulating layers. You can use a 35 degree bag at 20 degrees IF you have enough supplemental insulation. For a cheap fix, try the mil issue field jackets liners - top and bottom. They don't weigh much and are available cheap.
Just a Hiker
11-11-2007, 22:26
backcountrygear has the Marmot Pinnacle (15* 800 fp down 2lbs 8oz) on sale for $225 and free shipping. Sale ends tomorrow. :)
Which one? I tried the Piute 20* 600 fp down and didn't like it.
Thats the one!! I like mine. Just like I said early in this thread....it's all about personal preference, and everybody has one! :D
Just Jim
Passionphish
11-12-2007, 23:53
After several hours running all over town and up and down the internet. I have gone with the REI Mojave (http://www.rei.com/product/746219) regular. 15* 2 lbs 7 oz. It has thrown my gut into a tail spin based on the weight. But it is comfortable and warm!!!!
Now I am wondering if I need to go with a full bivy during the early and late part of my thru-hike. Or will the MLD bug bivy and a tarp block enough of the wind and hold warm air enough to keep me comfortable? Any one tried this way or something similar? I'm told to expect 10-15*
iliketacos
11-13-2007, 10:41
Again, get a zero bag and be done with the whole discussion.
It's gonna get cold, real cold, why fiddle with the spread of 30 to 20 to 10? Go for the (almost) sure thing.
Not to nock any of the other advice here but would you...oh forget it. Just get the darn zero bag.
You will wake one morning on the trail and say "oh thank you iliketacos".
Just don't go naming any of your kids iliketacos as that's kinda wierd. :rolleyes:
bigcranky
11-13-2007, 11:25
I dunno, tacodude.
I have a zero bag (WM Antelope), and it's great, but I only carry it in "real" winter (in quotes b/c we don't get "real" winter here in the Southeast). So, say from Thanksgiving through the end of February.
From March 1 onward, I've been happy with my 30-F rated WM Megalite bag, supplemented with insulated clothing and a homemade bivy sack. It's been warm down into the mid-teens for me, though I do sleep very warm. Sure, it can get way cold in March and even April, but for the most part, lows are in the 20s and low 30s. With a carefully assembled sleeping system, including a bag, proper clothing, and experience, a 30-F bag would be okay for some people.
Not sure if this helps the original poster, as I don't know anything about the BA bags and how they are rated. Sleeping comfort is so individual anyway, and affected by so many variables, that it's common for two people with the exact same equipment to have different comfort levels under the same conditions.
Are you bringing an insulating layer? I think your best bet is to try your bag in the yard this winter are various temperatures and with your insulating layers. You can use a 35 degree bag at 20 degrees IF you have enough supplemental insulation. For a cheap fix, try the mil issue field jackets liners - top and bottom. They don't weigh much and are available cheap.
Second that one .... they are cheap and can be worn as insulation around camp at night as well.
I wouldn't start with anything less than a good 20* bag. You might even be happier with a 10* bag. If you get a bag that has a full zipper, you can use it as a quilt on warmer nights. In fact, a good 20* bag like the Western Mountaineering Ultralite could probably be used for an entire thru hike. You might supplement with extra cloths a few nights, and then use it as a quilt in the summer.
I would also look at a full leangth mat untill the summer. I would look at a Prolite 4 or a Exped Downmat 7.
taildragger
11-13-2007, 11:52
campmor down bag, on sale for about $140 right now.