PDA

View Full Version : Northern LT Mid NOV-??Weather/conditions



garyhebert
11-12-2007, 00:44
Considering last minute SOLO plans to blow out top half of LT mid November 2007 (LT Inn to Canada) [leaving the end of this week!]

Only have 6 maybe 7 full days, so would be big days, hiking in dark,etc.

Had a blast thru hikin the AT this spring, so I'm proven for aggressive pace, aware upper part of LT is much harder, etc.; Last year earlier in fall I attempted same and managed only the first 85 miles in 5 days with much heavier gear and far less experience (as a prep hike for my AT attempt). Ran outta time. Avereraged 16.5/day I think. Honestly, this would be my most aggressive attempt, longer miles. If it were spring I wouldn't even be posting the question-I'd be doing it for sure.

Have plenty of light warm gear, so I'm ok with all that. Aware almost nobody else out there.

Just wondering what conditions I might expect. Mud? Ice on peaks? Trail Flooding? Snow?

Need crampons? or just walk carefully on spots of ice?

I'm assuming too early to need snowshoes, any snow would be minimal.

I like a challenge, just don't wanna be stupid/uninformed.

Thoughts?????

Lone Wolf
11-12-2007, 12:12
22 miles a day this time of year will be tough going. there's some rough-ass terrain on the north half. you will have freezing temps, wind, ice, snow, etc. good luck

A-Train
11-12-2007, 13:59
Doesn't sound real fun, but doable I guess. You'll have to be doing a couple hrs by headlamp in the morn and evening.

Days over 15 miles got me pretty exhauated up in northern VT, even going very light. I was with a friend who had thru-hiked the AT in 4 months that same yr (06') and he was pretty worn too. Did a 21+ day to finish in Canada, including Jay Peak, and finished by about 5, but I had practically no food and water.

The trail will probably be in fine shape most of the time, but things COULD get real hairy above treeline like on Camel's Hump, Mansfield, etc. Also the section near Appalachian Gap with the ladders could prove to be dicey if wet.

Luckily the LT has lots of bail points. Have a great time and be sure to go up to the Belvidere fire tower. The views are great.

Kerosene
11-12-2007, 19:40
I concur that the 9 hours of daylight available in late November will be a big limiting factor in how many miles you'll be able to crank out, even if you don't run into a lot of ice, snow, and mud. I'd feel pretty good about cranking out 18-20 miles, especially given the terrain.

oruoja
11-12-2007, 21:59
This would be quite the endurance contest. Night temps at my place (el 900 ft) have over the past week been down in the low 20s and there has been lasting snow up on Camels Hump, Bolton, Mt Mansfield for well over a week now. Rte 108 through Smugglers' Notch has also now been closed for the winter. The main summits with the LT leading to and from are very rocky and now no doubt very icy. To attempt this stretch really make sure you have the right gear and clothing. There is snow forecast over the next few days for anything pretty much over 2000 feet which pretty much covers 80 percent of LT from Rte 4 to the border.

adamkrz
11-12-2007, 22:18
Hi Gary and welcome to whiteblaze,We met a few weeks ago on Ragged Mtn. in CT a few weeks back and I really enjoyed reading about your thru-hike on trailjournals (exept about the lazy state workers)-true just not my job.

If any one can do it you can,At least the mud will be frozen,Good luck to you maybe someday we could hike together..

garyhebert
11-13-2007, 13:11
Thanks everyone for the "local" info. That's just what I wuz lookin for. Still undecided whether to go for it or not. WIll def complete the upper half, just not sure if now is the time. The short daylight was another big factor I considered since I only have limited number of days and would require big mile days.

Last minute cancellation of my plans in the Shenny's iz making me scramble for a place to hike for 5 days starting Friday or Saturday. Maybe 6 or 7 if I really fudge it.

If I do decide to try it, not sure if I'd start North and hike back to the LT Inn or NOBO. Iz there an advantage to one over the other? (Other than hiking the hardest stuff first if SOBO)

Should I expect standing water across the trail or flooded areas? Or just in spring/fall.

Yes, Adam, I remember meeting you guys on Ragged Mtn-thanks for the tips on the less traveled trails. Had a good hike out. Sure I'd be up for some hiking somewhere.

Gary

Kerosene
11-13-2007, 16:38
If you're not in backpacking shape then I'd suggest a NOBO routing. That also starts you at lower elevation and latitude, so the weather conditions shouldn't be as much of a factor initially.

Tinker
11-14-2007, 02:52
The forehead and chin on Mansfield would probably be pretty hairy (no pun intended) in snow and ice. If I knew such conditions existed and I didn't have someone with me to pick up the pieces, I probably wouldn't attempt it. Heck, on Camel's Hump in relatively dry fall weather, I slipped while stepping up onto a ledge and gave myself a golfball sized instant bruise, though I made it north to the next shelter and continued on for several days.

Be careful. Don't be sorry.

Deadeye
11-14-2007, 09:54
I was on Camel's Hump on veteran's day - plenty of snow, and the trail above 2500 feet was all ice and snow. Going from Rutland to Canada in a week would be serious days in the summer - I won't say it's impossible in the winter, but the LT isn't maintained for winter travel, and can be very hard to follow. Jeez, I just checked the book - it's 192 miles - that's 27 to 32 miles a day average.

In many sections, you'll be the only footprints - the trail will not be clear at all, which will slow you down big time, no matter how strong you are. If someone has tracked the way, it's a whole different story.

Bare minimum, you'll need some sort of traction device, i.e. crampons or stabilicers, because better than 50% of the trail will be ice. Personally, I'c carry light snowshoes, too. The Northern sections can pile it up real fast, even when the rest of the state is basking in sunshine.

Good luck & have a ball

Lone Wolf
11-14-2007, 10:10
more like 160 miles fron inn at the long trail

Deadeye
11-14-2007, 10:52
more like 160 miles fron inn at the long trail

Yup, you're right, 168.8, I was on the wrong page.

Ok, he can take a zero day in Jonesville!

Jan LiteShoe
11-15-2007, 19:20
Bare minimum, you'll need some sort of traction device, i.e. crampons or stabilicers, because better than 50% of the trail will be ice. Personally, I'c carry light snowshoes, too. The Northern sections can pile it up real fast, even when the rest of the state is basking in sunshine.

Whoa! Parts of the northern trail were rough enough in August. I can't imagine doing it with ice on the rocks.

That chute off the Mansfield Chin heading north comes to mind... Appalachia Gap

That said, you sound fit and competent, so I will just say good luck and don't forget to write!
:)

Cookerhiker
11-15-2007, 19:32
In addition to Camels Hump & Mansfield, you have some other rough stretches where the footing and terrain, especially if icy, will slow you down no matter what shape you're in. Examples:

Descending into Appalachian Gap - a verticle wall straight down
Burnt Rock Mt - before Montclair Glen Shelter - some tricky footing and extensive use of hands
Descending north side of Whiteface Mt. - very dangerous when wet let alone icy
Devils Gulch - the LT version of Mahoosuc Notch but thankfully shorterTake care!

garyhebert
11-15-2007, 21:50
Thanks all for the advice. Kinda what I was thinkin. This wasn't my plan for these days off, it was a last minute option I considered when original plans fell apart to hike in slightly warmer SNP.

Not that a near Winter hike wouldnt be fun, but I just dont have enough time to do the 170 or so under these conditions. I either need more time for the trip or better conditions to make longer miles more realistic. Snow,ice and lots-o-dark doesnt lend itself to easy high mile days.

It's not what one might be able to do, but what sounds like a FUN challenge. I dont "gotta go" now.

Thanks for filling in the details-just like my intuition thought. It's frustrating to again have not quite enough time to hit the upper half. But perhaps in the Spring (MUD season-what the LT is known for!! How can I pass up the true experience?)

Guess I'll just find somewhere in VT, NH, or ME to bomb up to Fri nite and hike around for 5 days. Know any good linked hikes for 60-100 miles? A little challenge is good. Thats what made the LT sound good-just a little too Long. (No punn intended):sun

A-Train
11-15-2007, 22:10
Why not go play in the Adironadacks? That's what I'd do. Lots of 4000 footers in the High Peaks to summit and mess around on. No long trail, but lots of networks of trails. Good loop opportunities. You'll have ice, snow, slop like on the LT, but won't have to do 20-30 mile days. Many of the trails have shelters too. One of my favorite areas

Frosty
11-15-2007, 22:41
Guess I'll just find somewhere in VT, NH, or ME to bomb up to Fri nite and hike around for 5 days. Know any good linked hikes for 60-100 miles? A little challenge is good. Thats what made the LT sound good-just a little too Long. (No punn intended):sunMonadnock Sunapee trail is just under 60 counting getting up and down tothe terminii.

The Northville Placid Trail is a bit over 100 miles, but it is very flat (follows valleys rather than ridges. Beautiful scenery. Water crossings could be tricky in cold weather before ice bridges form.

There is also the MA mid-state trail, the Metacomet Monadnock Trail, RI North South Trail, a section of the Long Path, and a section of the AT in MA or CT or NY or NJ.

If interested in the Monadnock Sunapee Trail and want company, PM me. I've done it a couple times and could do it again.

Deadeye
11-15-2007, 22:47
Come on up! It's Thursday, November 15, last night's rain is turning to snow and they're calling for 9+ inches overnight.:cool:

garyhebert
11-16-2007, 17:10
Screw it. I'm goin. You only live once!

Hit the trail early Sat morning...we'll see how far I get by Wednesday. It'll be good practice anyway. But thanks for the much better picture of what to expect!

Jan LiteShoe
11-16-2007, 17:54
Screw it. I'm goin. You only live once!

Hit the trail early Sat morning...we'll see how far I get by Wednesday. It'll be good practice anyway. But thanks for the much better picture of what to expect!

That's the spontaneous thru-hiker spirit!
Happy hiking, and post pics.
:)

garyhebert
11-22-2007, 23:13
Well I went. but not exactly like I originally planned.

First I ran outta gas very late Friday nite, got a quick ride into Chester, but all the gas stations were closed, so instead of the Inn at LT I "got" to spend the nite at Meadow somethin or other Motel in Chester. Finally got refueled & on the way late the Sat morning. Decided to head up to Camel's hump and hike south from Duxbury Rd for just a couple days.

Hit the trail Sat nite ~6pm in pitch black, 20 degrees, 4-6" snow, and hiked up to Bamforth Ridge shelter for the nite. In the teens overnite. Slept in, and hit the trail ~0745am, again 20 degrees but no wind, crisp snow. Beautiful day for winter hiking.

Very slow goin, post holing in 8-10" untracked snow the rest of the way up the north side of the hump, took me almost 4 hours! Lost the trail multiple times.

No wind up top, but a little hazy.

WHAT a different hike down the other side, with a few folks up top having paved the way on multiple trails on the south side. No effort searching for or following the trail, easy walking, etc. Just ran down the hill.

Stayed out second nite at Montclair Glenn Lodge in similar conditions. Froze a 1 Liter water bottle & a 3 Liter Platypus solid! Had to melt snow in the am to parboil my 1 Liter bottle to melt the block of ice for water for the hike out.

Hiked out Aliss to Dean to Monroe Trail to the Ranger cabin and roadwalked out and back to the Duxbury Pkg lot. Again no wind, crisp snow, and a MUCH easier hike out over packed snow.

Not the distance hike I had planned, but still a fun experience.

Spent the rest of my time hittin gear shops in Mid Vt for snowshoe/crampon info; Stayed at the Hide Away in Waitsville. Good time.

Hopefully will have lightweight aggressive snowshoes for my next winter hike up a similar place. And possible lightweight crampons too.

Here's a couple pics...

FINALLY reached Bamforth Shelter Sat nite...
Bamforth Ridge Shelter Sun morning
Some trail pics and summit views on the way up and
Montclair Glenn Lodge

Kerosene
11-22-2007, 23:59
Northern Vermont on a cold, crisp, clear winter day is one of my all-time favorite memories.

woodsy
11-23-2007, 17:55
Nice pics!
I found some of the same circumstances on a recent snowy hike in Maine, where's the trail? no tracks to follow, blazes nowhere for some distance, no blazes anywhere above treeline(they are buried). It's a whole new ballgame come winter. What makes it even harder is if you've never been there before. Thanks for sharing your trip.

Deadeye
11-23-2007, 20:28
Nice trip! Really lucked out on the weather. I can picture a few dicey spots on Bamforth Ridge. With the blazes covered, I can just see you thinking "they didn't put the trail there, did they?"

garyhebert
11-25-2007, 15:39
Thank god for a few well placed cairns on the open ridges on the way up! Even they were snow covered but visible as small lumps. Give it another couple feet of snow and I'd be screwed!

Bought some snowshoes and headin back up, maybe to Mt Mansfield this weekend. My birthday is Sat. What better way to spend it!

bmike
12-19-2007, 10:03
mansfield will be fun.
which side you thinking?
they are buried in it now... esp after this past weekend.

i've only done it in late fall - when ice was just starting to muck things up in the rock cracks, puddles, and trickle crossings. last trip up it started snowing when we were on top - so 1/2 of us headed down the way we came up, the other half took the 'easy' way down the mountain road into stowe and had dinner at the lodge while waiting for the cars to come around. good fun.

first several times i winter hiked in vt i cursed the trail makers... white blazes? in snow country? even if they are 6-7 feet off the ground... you still can't see them, esp after a fresh snow!

garyhebert
12-27-2007, 09:57
How are the trails now? Snow packed or not? Hoping to get back up there Early January for a few days.

bmike
12-27-2007, 10:41
should be snow packed.
we've had some warmer temps and rain in burlington. not sure about the mountains though. in town we've lost some snow and it has been icy.

snow conditions at stowe look great (http://www.stowe.com/mountain/conditions.php)
and from NWS (http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?site=BTV&llon=-73.272083&rlon=-72.609583&tlat=44.727917&blat=44.065417&smap=1&mp=1&map.x=175&map.y=68)

remember that long trail blazes are white... :-?
and will probably be hard to spot if we get some new snow.

i've been thinking about nebraska notch or sterling pond. either would be a great winter hike, without having to deal with mountain tops and too much alpine and ice.

Peaks
12-27-2007, 17:41
How are the trails now? Snow packed or not? Hoping to get back up there Early January for a few days.

I skied part of the Catamount Trail near Bromley on December 21. At that time, the snow was really too soft and deep to ski. Snowshoes would have been better.

If you want updated conditions, look at websites like Views from the Top.

NorthCountryWoods
12-27-2007, 17:53
The rain hardened stuff up nice. Used crampons on Laraway Mountain this weekend.

Some fresh powder is falling right now.

bmike
12-27-2007, 17:58
Some fresh powder is falling right now.


here in b-ton too.
might have to sneak out tomorrow for a ski or shoe.
lovely out right now.

bmike
01-02-2008, 22:41
snowshoed in underhill on 1-1-08.
saw some skiers and snowboarders, a few snowshoers.


was planning to hike in to taylor lodge on the LT and the twin brook tent sites but the parking lot was packed and about 20 people were milling about - so i headed over to underhill and hiked in to the trailhead for sunset ridge...

great snow, blowy and cold. took the pup and had a great hike. debating on spending a night in a lean-to in underhill - close to the road if i need to bail out, short hike in but i can explore till dark, and with several to choose from i can pick one sheltered from the wind.

greenm777
01-02-2008, 22:48
does any one know if the wood stove @ spruce peak shelter out side of manchester,vt is still opperational? has any one been there recently?

bmike
01-02-2008, 23:42
does any one know if the wood stove @ spruce peak shelter out side of manchester,vt is still opperational? has any one been there recently?

might want to contact someone from the GMC (http://www.greenmountainclub.org/index.php).

maybe from the manchester section (http://www.gmcmanchester.org/)?

Peaks
01-03-2008, 10:02
does any one know if the wood stove @ spruce peak shelter out side of manchester,vt is still opperational? has any one been there recently?


Haven't wood stoves been taken out of all, if not most of the shelters?

Minerva
01-03-2008, 17:15
Haven't wood stoves been taken out of all, if not most of the shelters?

Most of the wood stoves and doors have been removed from the majority of Long Trail Shelters and Camps. The woodstove was still at Spruce Peak in August. Haven't been up to Corliss Camp in several years, but there was a an old Jotel stove there the last time I went thru.
MrsG