View Full Version : Kids and Hiking: Are we there yet? I need a break ...
Bootstrap
11-12-2007, 12:34
My girlfriend and I each have a kid. My daughter is 10, her son is 9. We've done a little day-hiking with the kids, and it's gone well, but the kids do lose energy faster than we do, and we have to take a lot more breaks and go slower.
I think these kids are doing a lot more physically, but I also don't want to push them too much. They want to go on their first backpacking trip, and I want to make sure that their first backpacking trip draws their interest enough to make them want a second.
I'm tempted to do 3 miles in, sleep overnight, and then do 3 miles back, not too many hours from home (so they aren't tired of the trip by the time we get to the trailhead). Should I wait for warmer weather? I assume each kid should basically carry their clothes and water, but not much else. What do you do to help kids build the mental attitudes needed to enjoy hiking without taking quite so many breaks? What do you do to make the experience more enjoyable to them?
I'm already assuming that letting them filter water, do some of the cooking, help set up the tent or tarp will be a good way of getting them interested.
Jonathan
What do you do to make the experience more enjoyable to them?
Jonathan
Take away your point A to point B mentality for a moment. Kids want to explore their environment. They love to play near water. Take the time to stop and allow them to play, explore, without the "we gotta go" mentality.
As for when to hike, if they get cold on their first backpacking trip, that's all they will remember. Bear this in mind while planning. You know the kids best. Do they whine and complain at minor discomfort? If so, wait til it warms up. If not, maybe you want to go for it. Just make sure they are prepared for the elements.
SGT Rock
11-12-2007, 12:50
I agree with Mowgli. Find an area that the kids will like to explore - not a route for mileage. I find the youngest likes creek walks because of the play oporunities.
My girlfriend and I each have a kid. My daughter is 10, her son is 9. We've done a little day-hiking with the kids, and it's gone well, but the kids do lose energy faster than we do, and we have to take a lot more breaks and go slower.
Perfect age for getting them into backpacking.
I think these kids are doing a lot more physically, but I also don't want to push them too much. They want to go on their first backpacking trip, and I want to make sure that their first backpacking trip draws their interest enough to make them want a second.
I'm tempted to do 3 miles in, sleep overnight, and then do 3 miles back, not too many hours from home (so they aren't tired of the trip by the time we get to the trailhead). Should I wait for warmer weather? I assume each kid should basically carry their clothes and water, but not much else. What do you do to help kids build the mental attitudes needed to enjoy hiking without taking quite so many breaks? What do you do to make the experience more enjoyable to them?
3 miles is probably a good distance. Trips under 2 hours are best, but we have had to drive longer to get to a good location.
Weather? I let my kids decide on that. My youngest doesn't like cold weather so he won't go after about November. My oldest boy doesn't like the cold, but he does like the adventure of walking in snow - so he will go.
As for gear, well that is based on their ability and the gear you have available for them. I start my kids carrying everything they can up to about 20% of their body weight MAX. So for my youngest he carries all his gear and water - but not his own food. My oldest is now 18 and carries everything for himself and his brothers food most of the time since I normally carry my wife's food. Since you would have to pack extra clothing for cold weather now, staying on top of pack weight is very important and may be the factor that makes you wait to take them overnight in the back country.
Another option is to camp with a day hike involved. Go someplace like Farr Gap and car camp at one of those type sites, then plan a day hike while you are there to one of the cool falls in the Slickrock Wilderness. Only use gear like you would on a backpacking trip so you can break them into camping like that.
Breaks - just don't kill them. But kids will procrastinate if allowed. My favorite tactic is to make the camp location where we aim to somthing more interesting than the rest of the trail - so a waterfall or something like that. This way we can say "Lets get to that waterfall because it is even more fun". Plus, getting to camp lets them shed the pack and play without all that carrying.
I'm already assuming that letting them filter water, do some of the cooking, help set up the tent or tarp will be a good way of getting them interested.
Jonathan
Water is always a good chore, so is getting the firewood although that isn't much of an option for now.
I agree with Mowgli's and Sgt. Rock's approaches. When my kids were younger, we did less route-covering and more camping in places they'd enjoy. Near water is always good--fishing can be fun; creeks are always entertaining (build little dams out of rocks, etc.) Fires are essential, and fire-cooked foods are usually a hit (hobo dinners, marshmallows, S'mores...) Sometimes it helps to buy them a thing that fuels their fantasies, like a gigantic survival knife. The romance is part of the whole activity. I have talked to more than one AT hiker who has mentioned the movie Jeremiah Johnson as being their inspiration for going into the woods.
ditto to all the above:
1) make it someplace memorable that is scenic / fun. My 12- yr old son still talks about the day hike we did in the Shining Rock Wilderness area when he was 7 or 8 (we'd camped near the parking lot, and walked up to Tennant mtn).
2) if you make it a backpacking trip, make sure they don't take more than 20% of body weight.
3) Keep them warm! I find the cellulose hand warmers great for kids, even if it's only 40 degrees or so - my son will curl up with handwarmers in his hands and go right to sleep...
4) have good food that they like (with plenty of snacks), even if it means packing heavy for yourself...
5) this is one hike where you won't be hiking your own hike! the best you'll do is 1 mph - maybe less....don't push - let them take the time to see the snakes, chase bugs, and play! When I took my now 17-yr old on his first backpacking trip when he was nine, he bent over, picked up a snake, and said, "hey dad! a XXXX - it's on the endangered species list!" i don't remember what kind of snake it was (..and yeah, I know, if it was on the endangered species list it was a crime for him to pick it up), he still talks about it...
Ghosthiker
11-12-2007, 14:36
You can also have each of them plan a short "campfire" story. Of course, you'd better be ready with one, too.
I agree with Mowgli's and Sgt. Rock's approaches. When my kids were younger, we did less route-covering and more camping in places they'd enjoy. Near water is always good--fishing can be fun; creeks are always entertaining (build little dams out of rocks, etc.) Fires are essential, and fire-cooked foods are usually a hit (hobo dinners, marshmallows, S'mores...) Sometimes it helps to buy them a thing that fuels their fantasies, like a gigantic survival knife. The romance is part of the whole activity. I have talked to more than one AT hiker who has mentioned the movie Jeremiah Johnson as being their inspiration for going into the woods.
A fire and s'mores brings 'em back every time.
Our kids were about 9 and 11 when we took them on their first backpack trip. We headed up to Annapolis Rocks in Maryland for the weekend. Like everyone else has said… something at the end to entertain them. For us it was the rockclimbing. They just had to make it the 2.5 miles up the hill and they got a day of hanging out on the rocks. Back then we could still build fires at Annapolis Rocks so we would pack in steaks and smores and make it a real event.
First time up tho, Lydia was just 9 and not loving the hill going in. Tracy pulled out a bag of cherries and ‘tempted’ her up the hill. We still tease each other with cherries on tough hiking days. Whatever their favorite snack… have plenty. Also, there are trail games to take their minds off ‘are we there yet?’…. Animal alphabets, 20 questions, etc. …though we had to make rules about Pokemon not being allowed. :D
Caleb enjoyed having his own bivy to sleep in too. Something about little boys and cave-like spaces.
Just relax and make it fun. From that little nine year old who had to be tempted with cherries, now she is sixteen and planning her thru hike for next year. Just give them a good experience.
As a kid, it was all about berry picking. Hiking was just a means to get to the berries. Only we didn't call it hiking back then. We were "going to Surprise Lake."
We'd always stop off to see the view of Greenwood Lake from a place called Whaleback. That's about .75 off the AT. It was all about the scrambling, drinking straight from the springs, looking for snakes, and hearing stories about our Grandparents doing exactly what we were doing - only years earlier.
Some traditions are worth keeping alive.
Cloudwalker
11-12-2007, 15:47
All of the above is great advise. I have a 10 and 11 year old that have both car camped with us dozens of times and my daughter has been with me on one overnight backpacking trip. Kids now-a-days live in the electronic age. If they have one of those portable gaming devices (gameboy etc.) or mp3 player, by all means let 'em take them. I have a portable DVD player and the battery will usually last for one good movie (2 hours). If you have a GPS, go hide something in the woods and mark the coordinates into the GPS then have them go find it (be sure to walk with them so they don't get lost).
If a creek doesn't hold their attention for more than 5 minutes you are probably in trouble:D
Hope this helps!
If a creek is involved, make sure they have a full change of clothes. At my last outing my son had to do without a layer while it was drying by the fire.
You could always bring them to a place like the Big Creek Campground in the Smokies, camp and do a few day hikes to start them off.
gsingjane
11-12-2007, 15:58
Great advice above. For myself, I'd wait until it was warmer (having backpacked with kids in the cold and wet with less than favorable results) but you know your own kids best. It's hard because you know that physically they're probably up to more miles and faster ones, too, but mentally they're just... not. I find that it isn't until they hit the teen years that they really want to rock & roll trail-wise. My 15 year old and I went out and just hit it (for us anyways) about a month ago and it was great, but three years ago, nope, wouldn't have happened, even though he was surely up to it.
One other thing, if you go when it's warmer your kids will meet more hikers. This is always a high point for my kids (even the strange hikers, maybe even especially the strange hikers) and they always get a kick out of talking to new people and then talking *about* them afterwards...
Wind up with burgers or something luscious at a restaurant afterwards. They will look forward to and enjoy that tremendously!
I hope you guys have a great time and that we will see you on the trail one day!
Jane in CT
I think I am re-iterating much that's been said:
My daughter has just turned 8, and is 48 pounds or so. Also, contrary to my blind faith, she is probably no more extra-ordinary than everyone elses kid.
I don't think she loses energy faster than I do. She may lose interest faster, but that is a different thing entirely. Because of her age and size I keep her close and carry everything except her whistle/compass/thermometer and the clothes she is wearing. When she gets bigger she will carry more. She has no trouble keeping up with my long strides despite her having to walk walk trot trot walk walk trot trot when she is by my side. Mostly she doddles and explores, and I am usually smart enough to let her, because after all that is why we are out there. But I do also coax her along from time to time. It is a natural thing to do. It's usually best if there is a darn good reason to hurry, like a snow storm or something. Just be confident and be sure and praise the heck out of them when they accomplish whatever it is that they have done. It is not their fault if the weather closes in or their Mom or Dad did not plan things as well as they might have. Be sure and let them know that, and that they have saved the day when they rise to the challenge.
Margaret and I did 21k this past Saturday. It's a fairly easy 10k in and out. What took me 4 hours including a half hour break the weak before took the two of us 7.5 hours including much doddling, some beach exploring, lunch on the way in, 1.5 hours of supper and target practice with her bow, and the hike back out. The hike back out in the snow storm only took us 2 hours, not much slower than I did myself. So it's not that they can't go fast when they want to. It's that they are at an age when they are not supposed to. They are supposed to explore. It's what they are born to do, just as much as the walking. So you gotta let them do both. It's OK to kick their butts a little, as long as they know what they have accomplished and that you are proud of them.
So I don't think they lose energy faster, but I do think they need more time to explore, in their own way, and in their own time, most of the time, but not all of the time. They also like to be challenged. That's part of the deal.
Your kids are a year or two older, and probably a bit bigger. They might carry a little more. Perhaps a good age for them to carry their water and the essentials. I would have Margaret carry her own water and the essentials, but even that would bog her down way too much. She only carries what's fun. She does not feel gyped in any way. When she gets bigger I will pack her down some. I will likely need to to keep up.
It is true what you say about long drives to the trail head. Best to keep their eye on the ball. Sometimes a stop for a meal just before the trailhead is a good way to get them refocused. The long drive home is not so bad as long as the parents stay awake and on the road.
Also, there is the dynamic of multiple kids. When I take two kids I lose control. With two kids and another parent I wouldn't have any say whatsoever. We would probably all end up at the mall shopping where I would go nuts. I'm basically a man out of time, and most people know this. My daughter knows this well. She said the other day I wasn't weird, I was better than weird. Now there is the best hiking partner a guy like me could ever have. Whatever works for you drop to the ground and praise Jesus.
"What do you do to help kids build the mental attitudes needed to enjoy hiking without taking quite so many breaks?"
- Allow a lot of doddling and explore time. Let it be of their choosing. Use it as an opportunity to ask them questions and learn something with them. Don't be afraid to stop it short and encourage them along to the next opportunity.
"What do you do to make the experience more enjoyable to them?"
- It's easier for me with just the two of us. She calls most of the shots on the doddling and exploring. I am only their for the big picture, which is basically schedule and safety, and knowing where the next fun place might be.
"I'm already assuming that letting them filter water, do some of the cooking, help set up the tent or tarp will be a good way of getting them interested."
- Basically whatever she wants to do I teach her how to do it and let her do it and watch to make sure she does it safely. This includes map reading, compass work, getting us lost, getting us found, preparing the aqua-mira, fetching the water, making the water, starting the fire and feeding the fire (but not pouring the Kelly Kettle), making the hot chocolate, noodles and tuna, practicing with her bow (but not shooting her Dad), also putting up her tent or my tarp. Knives off limits too so far. Basically she will want to do anything and everything she sees me do, and I will let her, unless its not safe yet. It doesn't matter if she is not good at it yet. All the more reason to let her. That is why we are out there.
Remind them, and yourselves, that nature is real.
It is everything else which is not.
I wouldn't let the cold weather stop you, as long as you are within your limits. One think great about cold weather and snow is that you don't need to travel so far to get cold and wet and for things to get interesting. It is important for kids to get their bodies used to cold wet weather. That is why they love to play in snow. Haul in a sled and pack a few extra wool blankets and wool mitts and hats. You don't have to go that deep. Play with them. Before the snow you might have to hike farther to have fun, and this can be a very quiet time of the year. It might be better to wait for the snow so you don't get caught in it, but there is still lots of fun exploring to do in the Fall. Campfires and stars come earlier. That's a fun thing.
Car camping next to a trail is a good way to start the kids. Have them pack their lunch/snacks/drinks/poncho/etc. for a day hike is a good introduction to backpacking. They are both boy scouts, so instead of bringing electronic games I teach them scouting/camping skills and let them explore the woods a little (within sight) on their own to keep them occupied. Sending them to fetch water and wood also keeps them busy. ;)
Bootstrap
11-13-2007, 18:42
Excellent discussion all around.
Incidentally, this all what my father did with me when I was young. Worked out well. With my older daughters (now college age), we tried too hard to get them to hike with us on longer hikes and it really turned one of them off of hiking. Don't want to repeat that mistake.
Jonathan
Take them hiking more often. It isn't enegery they are losing, rather that they can "be tired" and not have to do it anymore ;) Kids are weasels. And most of all, if the hike really is boring, or it is wet/and or cold, kids do have a point.
So pick a nice place, with things for the kids to do and get out often.
max patch
11-13-2007, 20:59
Kids are weasels.
YIKES!
Lets hope not.
take a kite whit you, don`t tell them, find a spot where is possible to make it fly (a bald or another open area) set it up and give it to them,, kites at hobby-lobby
I started my son out at 5 doing a 3-mile hike, fairly flat, along a creek. He carried his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles figures and some clothes and we had a blast. Oh yeah, most kids like cards, and a deck of cards is quite light, given the hours of entertainment they provide.
By the time he was seven we were doing more strenuous stuff and about 7 miles a day. He had matured to carrying a Game Boy, sleeping bag, pad, and clothes.
By age 9, it was a deck of cards, and we did a 109 mile hike from Tesnatee Gap to Wesser (NOC), doing it in about 11 days. I had a plaque made after we got home comemorating his first 100 mile hike! He's 24 now and still cherishes that plaque over all the sports trophies he got growing up. Oh . . . the memories . . . cherish the moments with your children while you have them. They grow up and start leading their own lives soooo fast! :)
LIhikers
11-14-2007, 07:48
And don't forget, kids like to "play" with fire so a nice campfire is in order. It's your job to make sure their play stays safe around the fire.
Bootstrap
11-14-2007, 08:05
And don't forget, kids like to "play" with fire so a nice campfire is in order. It's your job to make sure their play stays safe around the fire.
Yup - and the fire had better have marshmallows and s'mores as part of the mix ;->
Jonathan
Bootstrap
11-14-2007, 08:06
Oh . . . the memories . . . cherish the moments with your children while you have them. They grow up and start leading their own lives soooo fast! :)
Tell me about it - I have two college age daughters in addition to my 10 year old!
Jonathan
River Runner
11-15-2007, 00:49
I'd probably wait until warmer weather and longer days to take kids on their first overnight backpacking trip. Creeks to play in and cold weather aren't a good mix, in my opinion. If they do get chilled it will be hard for them to get warm.
During the colder months if you want to get outdoors with them, I think it would be good to rent a cabin somewhere & do some day hikes in the area, and have a nice roaring fire in a fireplace, board games, popcorn, etc. for the longer nights this time of year.
Of course, it really does depend on the kids, but a bad first experience will probably mean they won't want to try again.