View Full Version : WM vs MB
Do people just like the price sales of MB?
taildragger
11-13-2007, 20:51
Umm, are you asking if people prefer the price of MB to WM, or is there something else in that sub 10 word post that I missed
Yes... price and if so do they really match up even on sale.
If you can save some money get the MB. They're as good a sleeping bag as WM from what I can tell.
Are you talking about Montbell v.s. Western mountaineer? From my experience using a WM on multiple thru-hikes and many other outings, you simply can't beat the quality. From my retail days it was always said that the only brand to hold a candle to WM is Feathered Friends. Honestly haven't heard much feedback good or bad on Montbell bags, but they certainly don't have the track record of Wm
wrongway_08
11-13-2007, 21:25
Love both my MBs, 15 and 40 degree. They seem to cost less then the WM. I think my 15 degree was only $370.00 plus shipping.
Never tried the WM. but as comfy and warm as the MB is, I would have to see them side by side at a store to spend the extra coin on the WM.
OK guess my opinion doesn't count, but from what I've seen, MB quality is as good as WM.
One thing to consider is girth. if you're looking for a wide bag MB beats WM and FF hands down.
wrongway_08
11-13-2007, 21:29
Sly is right, if you like to stretch out and move around, the MB rocks!
Just always been a WM guy...but see so many on here rave about MB.
A-Train dont fix whats not broken RIGHT.
OK guess my opinion doesn't count, but from what I've seen, MB quality is as good as WM.
One thing to consider is girth. if you're looking for a wide bag MB beats WM and FF hands down.
IT counts.:)
LOOK AT WM ALDER and MB #2 and also WM PONDEROSA and MB #1.
I sleep belly,side so the little diff in# for not having to strech...feel the bag is huge.Also WM acounts in the rec bags for no hood and added loft to the bag.
take-a-knee
11-13-2007, 23:42
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering bags are US made. Where are Montbells bags made?
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering bags are US made. Where are Montbells bags made?
I had the same exact question-good point! I'll always pick an American made product over that made in Asia. That being said my WM flight down jacket was a lot warmer and longer-lasting than those who used the mont-bell jackets on the PCT. Though WM is expensive!
Sly, your opinion does count-you're a wealth of info here. Sorry if my comments suggested otherwise
Plus the American companies will make sure the product fits you individaul needs, WM to a certain extent, FF you dream it and they'll make it. I've had two FF bags and one jacket made, and just picked up my first off the shelf WM bag. Can't wait to compare them.
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering bags are US made. Where are Montbells bags made?
The one in front of me was made in China, along with 90% of the **** sold in America. I probably would have bought a WM Alpinlite Super but with a 64" girth at the shoulders, which is large by most standards, was too tight.
If you're going to drop $300-$400 on a sleeping, it's best to try it out 1st to make sure it fits comfortably.
The endless debate continues...
WM, FF, & MB are all great bags. I own a FF quilt, WM Alpinlite, & a MB #0. They will all perform as good as or better than their ratings.
They all use premium materials.
You have more options with the FF & WM products for shell and size than MB.
MB has more room for restless sleepers than either the WM or FF.
All are similar in weight for the rating
I see MB products on "sale" in Feb/Mar, but never see WM or FF on sale.
I see more WM & MB in local stores (SE USA) than FF.
Slow - you need to try a few bags on and decide what works for you and how much $ you are willing to part with. Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap usually has all three manufacturer's bags in stock, albeit more WM than FF & MB.
Keep an eye on Ebay. I saw two "New, never used" WM bags go for half price several months ago because they were listed as "Western Montaineering". The miss-spelling kept the site hits down low and they received very few bids.
Egads
DrewNC2005
11-14-2007, 08:13
I've owned a MB #2 and now own a WM Megalite. I went with the Megalite because it was actually on sale at a local store. I love both bags. However, I do sometimes regret selling the #2. Those stretch baffles were nice. I sold it to save a few ounces and the fit was a little short on me. I'm 5'11/6'0 and should have bought the long.
NICKTHEGREEK
11-14-2007, 08:38
Plus the American companies will make sure the product fits you individaul needs, WM to a certain extent, FF you dream it and they'll make it. I've had two FF bags and one jacket made, and just picked up my first off the shelf WM bag. Can't wait to compare them.
Where's the outfitter in the Hindu Kush?
nitewalker
11-14-2007, 09:03
i belive the american made bags will not have any lead in them..those foreign bags may be quite heavy packing all that lead as loft......:D
on the serious side, save your money and get the ems mtn lt bag. i havent a problem with any of these bags. i have looked at the mb and wm bags but i just cant get past the asking price. i just picked up my ems mtn lt 20 bag for 150 bucks[2 weeks ago] on sale....ems has really done a good job improving their gear choices over the last few years[better quality]....
peace, nitewalker
wrongway_08
11-14-2007, 09:44
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering bags are US made. Where are Montbells bags made?
China. But MB It is the most comfy bag I have ever tried, customer service has been great and the bags are well designed.
Not sayn I dont try to buy items made in US, but truth be told most items that are made in the US are just that "made in the US" - the products used to build them are usually bought out of the US.
Anyone know if the other companies mentioned use materials grown (down), formed (zippers,thread, cloth) and made in the US only items to build their bags? Just wondering - NOT tryn to start a made in the US war here.
I sold it to save a few ounces and the fit was a little short on me. I'm 5'11/6'0 and should have bought the long.
Yeah, I'm 6' and got the long. If I stuff the bottom in and draw the cord it's just about right, but I tend to use it full length.
I saved about $100 each buying last years models (#1-15* and #4-35*). My only beef is that I got right hand zippers, which is itself isn't bad, but opposite the opening to my tent.
Besides being cheaper, the bottom line was girth. There was no way I was going to drop that kind of money to feel like a sardine.
Where's the outfitter in the Hindu Kush? Next door. Most show up well prepared though.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2007, 10:24
Next door. Most show up well prepared though.
do you grow this in the hindu kush?
www.ganjaland.com/seedlistgallery/hindukush.htm
wrongway_08
11-14-2007, 10:25
Looking off the home page it looks like they use some non-US made material to build the bags, I tried to find a phone number or e-mail to ask directly but did not see any. I might have just missed it but the only thing I found was the store address.
Hmm, if thats right and I have to search for the phone number - outside of the website - that wouldnt make me happy that I cant cal directly to ask a question about their bags if I am about to drop that much coin on a bag made by them.
Any one have the number? Maybe they give it in the paper work that comes with the bag?
Can't see the link, but guessing, you can just go to the market (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6957238.stm).
wrongway_08
11-14-2007, 10:28
do you grow this in the hindu kush?
www.ganjaland.com/seedlistgallery/hindukush.htm (http://www.ganjaland.com/seedlistgallery/hindukush.htm)
Hua? howd we get on this? :)
- never mind, reread and figured it out.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2007, 10:30
Hua? howd we get on this? :)
- never mind, reread and figured it out.
googled hindu kush and it popped up
taildragger
11-14-2007, 12:14
i belive the american made bags will not have any lead in them..those foreign bags may be quite heavy packing all that lead as loft......:D
on the serious side, save your money and get the ems mtn lt bag. i havent a problem with any of these bags. i have looked at the mb and wm bags but i just cant get past the asking price. i just picked up my ems mtn lt 20 bag for 150 bucks[2 weeks ago] on sale....ems has really done a good job improving their gear choices over the last few years[better quality]....
peace, nitewalker
Nitewalker makes a good point. Look at some of the other bags out there. I went through the same debate a while ago and bought a Marmot Helium on sale, then found out about the EMS, I'm a little sore that I could have had a longer zipper, but hey, I gots a nice bag in the end.
Nitewalker makes a good point. Look at some of the other bags out there. I went through the same debate a while ago and bought a Marmot Helium on sale, then found out about the EMS, I'm a little sore that I could have had a longer zipper, but hey, I gots a nice bag in the end.
If you want to buy an inexpensive bag, or don't have the money, I always recommend a Campmor down bag. I have one that's lasted for years. The girth in the 20* down bag is about the same as the WM Alpinlite. For the money they can't be beat.
YeOldeBackpacker
11-14-2007, 13:18
Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering bags are US made. Where are Montbells bags made?
Asia somewhere :(
Asia somewhere :(
Except for cottage industry types, WM and FF may be the only bags made in the USA, but it's likely they use materials bought overseas. MB is a Japanese company with a flagship store (http://www.montbell.us/flag/) in Boulder, CO
Great info from all and thank's.
I have WM bags...just wish i could find a seller of MB in fl to try one on .
Thank's again
Great info from all and thank's.
I have WM bags...just wish i could find a seller of MB in fl to try one on .
Thank's again
Looking I see none in FL. Here's a list of US dealers (http://www.montbell.us/dealers/) If you're big and/or like to stretch they really can't be beat. Search the web for the best price, but I found Prolite Gear (http://www.prolitegear.com/site/search_engine.html?show_all=1&prod_section=Sleep%20Systems&prod_group=Sleeping%20Bags) to be very good and they often have some on sale.
They come in regular, up to 5'8" and long to 6'4". They also have a draw cord towards the bottom where you push the bottom into the bag and draw the cord to make them shorter if need be. The girths are wide ranging in super stretch line.
They have a liberal return policy (http://www.prolitegear.com/customerservice.html) allowing up to 30 days. All you'd need to pay is return shipping. Shipping to you is free.
Does anybody have the specs on the amt. of down fill in the WM 0 compared to the MB 15? I guess they don't make a 0 bag ( ?) :)
Love both my MBs, 15 and 40 degree. They seem to cost less then the WM. I think my 15 degree was only $370.00 plus shipping.
Never tried the WM. but as comfy and warm as the MB is, I would have to see them side by side at a store to spend the extra coin on the WM.
I'm pretty sure that Montbell products are made outside of the USA. Western Mountaineering bags are made here.
Feathered Friends bags are made here, too. I have two, and can vouch for their quality.
I was considering buying WM bags back in the '90s when I bought my FF bags, but decided on the FF bags because WM claimed to have "The most loftiest" bags. Poor English. Yeah, I'm a grammar snob.:rolleyes:
wrongway_08
11-14-2007, 20:20
MB is made in China.
Love both my MBs, 15 and 40 degree. They seem to cost less then the WM. I think my 15 degree was only $370.00 plus shipping.
Never tried the WM. but as comfy and warm as the MB is, I would have to see them side by side at a store to spend the extra coin on the WM.
Not to rub it in but Midway Sam turned me on to a outfitter where he lives, since closed, that was selling the #1 15* $286 with shipping. I bought the #4 35* bag from Prolite Gear also on sale for $175 from $275, free shipping.
The best I could do for a WM Super Alpinlite was $380 plus GA sales tax.
Since I had a 20* Campmor I could afford to wait and get the best deal. Still dropping $450 for a couple sleeping is a lot of money. A single FF would be about the same, no thanks.
Anyway, I'll never have to buy another one.
Service for a Smile.
WM Kodiak Super MF is a 0* bag w/ 30 oz fill / 44 oz TW vs. 28 oz fill / 45 oz TW for MB #0
Egads
Looking I see none in FL. Here's a list of US dealers (http://www.montbell.us/dealers/) If you're big and/or like to stretch they really can't be beat. Search the web for the best price, but I found Prolite Gear (http://www.prolitegear.com/site/search_engine.html?show_all=1&prod_section=Sleep%20Systems&prod_group=Sleeping%20Bags) to be very good and they often have some on sale.
They come in regular, up to 5'8" and long to 6'4". They also have a draw cord towards the bottom where you push the bottom into the bag and draw the cord to make them shorter if need be. The girths are wide ranging in super stretch line.
They have a liberal return policy (http://www.prolitegear.com/customerservice.html) allowing up to 30 days. All you'd need to pay is return shipping. Shipping to you is free.
SLy,you are a good person...and thank's for your time and smarts.:)
SLy,you are a good person...and thank's for your time and smarts.:)
No problem, glad to help.
Dirtygaiters
11-15-2007, 00:23
I really like the design of the Montbell bags and can understand why a bag that hugs my body would be warmer than a loose one, BUT... is it really more weight/to warmth efficient to add a bunch of elastic to a bag, than it would be to instead add as many ounces of down as you'd otherwise add in elastic?
Hmm...I'm looking over some of the specs for the Montbell sleeping bags and the fill weights, finished weights/vs the temperature ratings are in fact very comparable. Though, I imagine that the loft in the Montbell bags decreases as you stretch them out....
Service for a Smile.
Thanks Egads :)
Looks like the stretchy fabric adds a little weight. Do you think that 2 oz of fill makes a huge difference. I found that I am usually cold on the ground side regardless of the cold rating on the bag.
Dirtygaiters
11-15-2007, 00:30
Except for cottage industry types, WM and FF may be the only bags made in the USA, but it's likely they use materials bought overseas. MB is a Japanese company with a flagship store (http://www.montbell.us/flag/) in Boulder, CO
Western Mountaineering uses Pertex in their Extremelite series and Pertex is a European company. The eVent that Feathered Friends uses is also European in origin, I believe. Goose down largely comes from Canada if I'm not mistaken. But does that really matter or is quality of contruction what's actually important?
Thanks Egads :)
Looks like the stretchy fabric adds a little weight. Do you think that 2 oz of fill makes a huge difference. I found that I am usually cold on the ground side regardless of the cold rating on the bag.
I'm not sure how Egads matched them up since some are longer than others but the MB's are wider therefore more material, but IMO, their temp rating are on the conservative side. If you're cold on the ground side you may want to consider a thicker pad
Western Mountaineering uses Pertex in their Extremelite series and Pertex is a European company. The eVent that Feathered Friends uses is also European in origin, I believe. Goose down largely comes from Canada if I'm not mistaken. But does that really matter or is quality of contruction what's actually important?
It really doesn't matter to me, we're in a global economy whether we like it or not. Someone else brought it up, I just responded.
Good suggestion Sly. Last hike out I used a WPro-lite 3/4 pad, and was still cold groundside in a 0 WM, & silk liner. Mainly warm, but just cold contact points, maybe this is normal. ??
I have a Z pad too, do you think that it's warmer, just can't take both due to weight. But I'm talking when it was very cold ( 17 - 20 f) at night, early March, in a SMDesigns LSe.
I assumed it was a heat or thermal issue from using a silnylon tent, I don't know if that would have anything to do with it. :)
Smile,
Sorry to diverge from topic, but this info is germane to the discussion.
You definitely need to upgrade pads for winter.
R values indicate the linear resistance of heat loss with the larger the R value the better insulating the pad is. R values are additive by stacking pads. I typically put a RidgeRest on top of a Prolite 4 in winter giving a R value of 5.8, but this combination gives a total weight of 47 oz (ouch). The POE AO Mtn Hyper High weighs only 26 oz and is less bulky, but has a steep price tag.
I have always said that choosing gear is the art of compromise. What do you value most? warmth? weight? bulk? cost? comfort?
W Prolite 3 has a R value of 3.0
W Prolite 4 has a R value of 3.2
Z-Lite has a R value of 2.2
RidgeRest has a R value of 2.6
RidgeRest Dxl has a R value of 3.1 but is 25" wide
POE AO Mtn Hyper High has a R value of 20 at Aerogel zones (BPL testing shows an avg 6.0 R value)
Gossamer Gear 3/4" Evazotec has a R of 2.27
Blue CCF has a R of ?.? (any one have this info?)
Egads
Sly, any chance you will have your Montbell sleeping bag at SoRuck?
Sly, any chance you will have your Montbell sleeping bag at SoRuck?
Yeah, I'll bring them.
Egads, thanks for the break down :)
As far as pads go, would you say that the R value on a full length is higher, but not more 'concentrated' in the area where your core is when sleeping. I actually think the PL pads are great, but I wonder if I'm not heating the air inside in such a warm sleeping bag, what do you think?
I have a marmot 15 I think I'm going to sell, just too cold of bag for Feb/March on the AT. :)
I have a marmot 15 I think I'm going to sell, just too cold of bag for Feb/March on the AT.
They make quality gear but I don't like the short zipper and I don't think their ratings are true.
Another good R-value pad for the weight is the Exped Downmats. The regular Downmat 7 is 28oz and has an R value of 5.9, the regualr Downmat 9 is 33oz and has an R vaule of 8! They are inflatable pads of 2.75" and 3.5" respectfully similar in appearance to the BA pads.
I currently use a regular Prolite 4 in the winter and add a z-lite if it is cold enough, but a Downmat 7 is on my long term wish list. A warm pad really will help.
Back to the OP. I have 2 WM bags and love them both, but also have some Mont-Bell products that I like. I would tend to lean to WM being the better quality bag, but Mont-Bell isn't too far behind. The streach feature is loved by alot of people that toss and turn at night. I am actually looking for a winter bag now and have been looking at WM, Mont-Bell, and Mountain Hardwear, and will probably go with another WM. (Mont-Bell does make a 0* bag by the way the U.L. SS Down Hugger 0 28oz of 800 fill power down that weighs in at 2lbs 13oz)