Cell phone for a thru-hike - Problems with AT&T Wireless.... [Archive]

dixicritter

11-14-2007, 23:51

I've started writing this thread three times now. Every time I think about how we've been done I get mad all over again. OK a little background is in order I suppose...

When we moved here to TN we knew Rock was going to be out of town a good deal with the Army so we got cell phone service with Cingular (that was 2004). Things were going great. AT&T Wireless took over Cingular last year, OK no biggie right? That's what I thought too until I got a letter in the mail today.

They are cancelling our cell phone service. Not for lack of payment, the bills have all been paid in full and way on time. No they are cancelling our service because according to them for at least two months of billing (but not necessarily the last two months mind you) we didn't make at least 50% of our calls on their network. Meaning the calls routed to someone else's network instead of AT&T's. WHAT??? They're kidding me right? Nope.

So I call to see if there's something I can do to fix this problem, since we've been a good PAYING customer and, oh by the way, my husband is in the ARMY. Guess what? They don't give a crap about any of that. We're still cancelled, but hey... they won't charge us an early termination fee. NO DUHH, try it and see how far that gets ya.

I was LIVID!

So... we went to US Cellular this evening. Oh My Goodness were they ever helpful! AND my cell phone now actually works in my house unlike before. We were also told by someone Rock works with that US Cellular works here on the AT in the Smokies for anyone wondering.

Moral of this story is, I warned AT&T that I was going to be spreading the word about how we've been treated, so that's exactly what I'm doing. AND I told the guy at US Cellular They were getting kudo points for all he did for us this evening.

Unfortunately this having to switch over meant also having to buy new phones after Rock had his all set the way he wanted for his thru hike. However, I think we found one he'll be happy with, just not AS happy with.

I'm half tempted to send AT&T a bill for what I had to pay out to switch my service too, since we were not planning on changing carriers.

Dakota Dan

11-14-2007, 23:56

I hate all cell phone companys. I just hate Verizon the least. Get Verizon for the best coast-coast coverage.

Sly

11-15-2007, 00:01

Couldn't you just use your old phone with US Cellular?

Cookerhiker

11-15-2007, 00:02

River Runner

11-15-2007, 00:03

I don't know much about US Cellular, but I know the users with Verizon were getting very good results in 2006 on GA/NC/TN section of the AT, while a friend & I with Cingular didn't do too well.

Unfortunately, Verizon doesn't offer very good coverage in the areas I normally travel, so I stuck with AT&T when my renewal came up. They did charge me 'upgrade' fees just for getting new phones, which the representative had said they would not. I did manage to get customer service to credit them, but not happily.

With the AT&T service this year, I got very good service on the northern GA, southern NC section. That really sucks that they would treat members of our armed forces that way though. And their fees go up with every renewal. They need some competition!!!

dixicritter

11-15-2007, 00:06

I hate all cell phone companys. I just hate Verizon the least. Get Verizon for the best coast-coast coverage.

Considered Verizon, but got the recommendation from Rock's co-worker for US Cellular and I knew a neighbor out here had used them so I knew we'd get service in our house with them too. Unlike with AT&T.

Couldn't you just use your old phone with US Cellular?

That's the kicker, they use different types of phones and networks so no we couldn't. We asked that off the bat. Not a cheap switch over that we didn't choose to make I'll tell ya.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 00:08

::: Dino installs titanium dentures with diamond tips and goes off in search of AT&T's toes :::

Seriously, we dumped BellSouth (home) and Cingular (cell) when AT&T bought them. I had nothing but trouble from AT&T as a long-distance carrier and will never, ever do business with them again.

We has US Cellular for several years - great reception where you live and the best customer service in the business IMO. However, we are getting a bit better reception with Verizon in other places we've been along the AT (the reason we switched - He-Dino is not a happy camper if his cell phone won't work and when He-dino ain't happy, ain't nobody happy :D) . However, after billing snafus for the past two months (over the many, many calls I had to make when my mother was ill and after she died), I'm not going to recommend Verizon to anyone.

Edited to add - my Vorizon phone works at your house

Sly

11-15-2007, 00:26

FD, it doesn't matter why, if you exceed your peak minutes, I would think you're going to get charged no matter who you have.

Lugnut

11-15-2007, 00:29

Jeff Burton is not going to be happy about this!

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 00:32

Well hell, if they said we had to pay some extra because of roaming, that would have been fine by me. But we have a few thousand minutes rolled over from previous months - so in the end they are making money off me as a customer in the long run. Imagine me paying a bill for 12 months while in Iraq and never making a phone call, then I go to Wisconsin for 3 months and make a few hundred minutes in calls and now I am "costing them too much".

If you think about it - it is probably for the best we have seperated from that sort of idiotic company mentality.

dixicritter

11-15-2007, 00:35

Yep all of 2006 I was paying for 2 lines with them, and for the most part only using one. Only used Rock's phone on very rare occations.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 00:36

FD, it doesn't matter why, if you exceed your peak minutes, I would think you're going to get charged no matter who you have.We rare use all our minutes - never have even come close before. We were told we had month to month rollover (unused minutes from previous month could be use in the following month only) when we signed up. This was dropped somewhere along the line without us being notified - I did not check on the minutes because I thought it was still in effect and I would have had plenty of time left if it had been.

Sly

11-15-2007, 00:39

Oh, I've had Verizon about 15 months and have never known them to have roll over minutes.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 00:41

Interesting - maybe they lied to us from the start. We would have never caught this because it is so rare for us to use the cell phone that much. Seriously, we don't use 200 minutes more months.

Smile

11-15-2007, 01:01

I have several friends who have had similar problems with AT&T. They should show a little respect and understanding to those who serve.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 01:10

I put this into perspective for myself.

We has AT&T in Louisiana for 4.5 years. We moved here and had AT&T for 3 years - that makes 7+ years of regular payments of long distance service. They were also our ISP in Louisiana for 4.5 years. When we got here we switched out wireless over to them because they were here and we could roll it into one bill for convenience.

At to that in 27 months of deployments to Iraq I used the AT&T calling cards where you spend a hell of a lot for a few minutes to call. And during the last one I paid for a cell service I never got to use. Even when I am home I am paying and rarely using them.

All those years a paying customer. All those years of cell service where I hardly even used what I was paying for. And for 3 months deployed on freaking US ARMY business they cancel me for costing them too much (that was the girls wording).

That is so upside down I wonder how they stay in business. We have this saying "They will bend over a dollar to pick up a dime". That describes this company to a T.

My plan - well we already changed cellular coverage. Tomorrow I plan to look into losing the shackles of their local phone connection and go VOIP. This also means I will no longer be using them as my long distance carrier either. I wrote them a very tactful letter describing how this has all come to pass. I really don't expect that to come to anything.

Anyway - I hope anyone out there with AT&T gets the hint early and drops them ASAP. Don't wait for them to screw you over.

Nearly Normal

11-15-2007, 01:36

Good luck,
Maybe your letter will be passed up the line but probably not. If you can find a way to bypass the bozos you might get management to help but it seems you have already changed couriers.

Cell phones bite.
Regular phones bite too.

Nearly Normal

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 01:46

Cell phones bite.
Regular phones bite too.

Nearly Normal
I agree with both of those statements.

Sly

11-15-2007, 01:50

Rock, unless you use the phone alot, why even bother with VIOP if you have cell service? Do you have cable Internet?

Sly

11-15-2007, 01:50

I agree with both of those statements.

What about the third? :p

Montego

11-15-2007, 02:25

I have been a Cingular customer for a couple of years with absolutely no problems, using a Razr, but since Cingular was bought out by AT&T, I only have an occational signal at my house and have lost count of the number of dropped calls. All the AT&T reps ever say is that they are updating the systems or working on the problem (hmmm - must be the stock answer this week). :-?

Before I went with Cingular (I moved to a diffrent region that did not have Verizon service) I had Verizon, again with absolutely nada, zip, nix, no, problems.

Obviously AT&T is not the service of choice for use (emergency only) on the AT, so unless I can find a good, reliable service for use while on my thru-hike in ,08, I don't plan on taking my cell phone.

Shane! Come Back!

11-15-2007, 02:54

Tennessee Viking

11-15-2007, 03:36

From what I was told by a former Cingular/AT&T employee. AT&T first sold their service to Cingular because AT&T was real lazy and tired of dealing with their own messes and complaints. After Cingular aquired the service, they cleaned it up pretty well. Enlarging cell coverage, collecting old debts, streamlining and come near-perfecting cell service. But AT&T bought it back.

Tennessee Viking

11-15-2007, 03:38

Alltel is great in coverage for most parts. I think Maine, Kentucky, and the Northwest are the only no coverage areas they have.

But I just realized that it is a hassle to get a new phone. They want you to create a new account/number if you really want one of their great promotions.

NICKTHEGREEK

11-15-2007, 07:14

Sarge and Dixiecritter-- It's not personal it's just business. Phones have morphed in your adult lifetimes from a heavily regulated industry where costs were spread across all users to a pay as you go, bear your own cost profit centers. Keep in mind that every time you save a dollar, it comes out of someone else's pocket. It's part of the I got mine, screw everone else society that America is turning into.

At some point you won't "fit" your new cell provider's business model, and they'll drop you again, or raise the price on minutes or whatever. It's all part of not having a big intrusive government to protect the little guy by regulating industries. Utilities are the tip of the iceberg, the FDA is where the horror story lies.
Some folks seem to think that less regulation and control is good, but personally I like knowing my dog food isn't going to kill my mutts, my steak came from real cows, and my cheese doesn't contain more lead than a sailboat keel, but that's just me.

orangebug

11-15-2007, 07:25

Similar story on Clark Howard the other day. You may want to check your old contract though, just to be sure the wording is actually present over their right to dump you for violating the percentage local usuage clause.

"Customer No Service" has become the norm in our current version of capitalism. Short term profits and low prices have led to hazardous toys, arrogant company reps, lack of access to medical care and a few other insults. VOIP is pretty cool, although dealing with the cable company is a real bite.

I'd encourage you to hold off on VOIP until AT&T opens their "naked DSL" account to you and then transfer.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 07:31

Well it really just pisses me off that I spend a few hundred dollars on phone equipment with them so I could have the device I wanted for my Thru-Hike and thought I had the service I wanted for my thru-hike that I now have to go out and re-figure all this out all over again with different services. The reason I think this is important for hikers that may be planning to hike the AT is if you spend too much time out of the AT&T coverage area you may find yourself on the trail with a phone that won't work anymore if AT&T is your service provider because you are spending too much time using someone elses infrastructure. It isn't as annoying for me now since I have a job and I'm not out on the trail. But if someone were out on a thru-hike and found out that AT&T was cutting them off for something they never expected - well that would be a reall pisser.

Thru-Hikers - don't have AT&T when you start.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 08:06

FCC handles complaints about wireless providers, so lob a complaint using their handy online complaint form.
www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints_general.html (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints_general.html)

FCC is reponsible to Congress so lob one in that direction, too. I'd like to hear your Congress-person's reply -- and politicians always respond, especially to Veterans. Complaints are their bread & butter.I may complain, but at this point I don't care about AT&T other than I want them to know their business model is a crappy one. I want some jerk at the HQ to know they are screwing up. I really want nothing to do with them anymore at all. The e-mail I sent last night was answered today by some nameless faceless guy that said I need to contact the Wireless service department for an issue about wireless - we did that yesterday and that was the reason I sent the e-mail to this other section to make sure they got the message about why I am leaving them too. I imagine that both these people (the ones from wireless we talked to and the other from long distance I got the e-mail from) are in some call/serrvice center in India and could care less as long as they are getting paid for what they do.

Sarge and Dixiecritter-- It's not personal it's just business. Phones have morphed in your adult lifetimes from a heavily regulated industry where costs were spread across all users to a pay as you go, bear your own cost profit centers. Keep in mind that every time you save a dollar, it comes out of someone else's pocket. It's part of the I got mine, screw everone else society that America is turning into.

At some point you won't "fit" your new cell provider's business model, and they'll drop you again, or raise the price on minutes or whatever. It's all part of not having a big intrusive government to protect the little guy by regulating industries. Utilities are the tip of the iceberg, the FDA is where the horror story lies.
Some folks seem to think that less regulation and control is good, but personally I like knowing my dog food isn't going to kill my mutts, my steak came from real cows, and my cheese doesn't contain more lead than a sailboat keel, but that's just me.
I am sure that is exactly the issue. One department is run one way and they make their own decisions and don't pay attention to how that can affect the other services within the same company. One of the main reasons I went with AT&T was the convinience of one bill with one company to deal with for all this. From their end they are fat, dumb, and happy with me as a customer and am fat, dumb, and happy with them as a consumer. But if I cost them some money for one section than other they can make a cost analysis decison based on some blanket policy and cut that part off from me (although I think that overal model is flawed based on my overall cell usage for the last 3 years). I guess their assumption is I am just going to continue going on fat, dumb, and happy with the rest of their services because I have up until now.

Anyway, again, if you are getting ready to thru-hike and want a cell phone - DON'T USE AT&T!

AT-HITMAN2005

11-15-2007, 08:18

woodsy

11-15-2007, 08:23

They should show a little respect and understanding to those who serve.
Good luck finding much of that in today's big business world. This dicussion makes a good case in point.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 08:28

seems like if they have an issue with your tower usage, they would have that issue with all of their customers in that area and they should just stop offering service there. it would be interesting to see how many other people in maryville have been dropped like you, Rock.
You know, now that you mention it - there were new customers about 10 deep in the place last night. There were so many that they didn't have enough sales people to handle them all and had awaiting list for people to sign in and wait until they could get with them.

Again - that was new customers.

I was kidding with the sales guy that there were probably a bunch of AT&T customers in that group.

edit -

I just filed a complaint with the FCC.

Edit again -

On a whim I went to check out the service area. Apparently Blount county (as well as a good deal of the AT in NC/TN/VA/MY) is not in the AT&T coverage area anymore. Think about that thru-hikers. If you hike with AT&T you will be out of coverage for a good deal of the trail and since you will be roaming you will likely get dropped like me. The funny thing is they have about 5 AT&T stores here in the Maryville area. So they are selling people a service they will most likely cut them off from if this is now the norm.

Two Speed

11-15-2007, 08:58

. . . On a whim I went to check out the service area. Apparently Blount county (as well as a good deal of the AT in NC/TN/VA/MY) is not in the AT&T coverage area anymore. . . The funny thing is they have about 5 AT&T stores here in the Maryville area. So they are selling people a service they will most likely cut them off from if this is now the norm.Sooo, evidently AT&T has made it policy to up the ante from accidently annoying customers to pissing them off deliberately. That is true marketing genius in action.

FWIW I was using a BellSouth DSL connection and land line until AT&T bought BellSouth, so now I'm an AT&T customer, like it or not. Gonna have to look at that and see what I can do. Friggin' service is overpriced, anyway.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 09:15

Sooo, evidently AT&T has made it policy to up the ante from accidently annoying customers to pissing them off deliberately. That is true marketing genius in action.

FWIW I was using a BellSouth DSL connection and land line until AT&T bought BellSouth, so now I'm an AT&T customer, like it or not. Gonna have to look at that and see what I can do. Friggin' service is overpriced, anyway.
I'm hoping the FCC responds to my e-mail. I didn't even know about this facet until after I had already push send on it. If they do respond I will make sure to point this out. I'm also thinking about contacting the better business bureau for the area and pointing this out.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 09:37

I have dealt with AT&T for many years buying service for large corporations. One word describes their approach - ARROGANCE! They have the same attitude to large corporate buyers as they do individual consumers as described in this thread. Escalating issues just falls on deaf ears. If a competitor is cheaper or the same price on any service, I go with the competitor and I never buy cell service from AT&T.

Lilred

11-15-2007, 09:42

We dropped at&t years ago for long distance service because we couldn't stand them then. Now, my cell phone is At&t and I was not happy about that when it happened. I'm just waiting for my contract to expire and I'm heading over to Verizon. Better coverage anyway. We use vonage for our home phone service.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 09:42

This may have have happened to a lot of people in Maryville. Our youngest attends Maryville College which is probably not more than 10 miles (straight line) from Rock & Dixie. Many of her classmates got the same letter last week - including her roommate. The roommate is currently using our 'softphone' service to keep in touch with her parents until she can get a new service in place (it is midterm week and the kids don't have time for this nonsense) Softphone service allows any computer on which you have installed service to be used as telephone while hooked to a high-speed connection - great when we are out in the middle of nowhere without cell coverage or were in a roaming area and hit a hotspot! It is available with many of the VIOP providers.

I attended an area civic meeting last night and seven out of the 27 people attending had gotten this letter. I guess AT&T thinks people won't dump their residential service over having their cell service terminated :rolleyes:. Some of the people who got the AT&T letter are fellow Dinos with high-speed Internet and had no idea that VIOP was available! I sent those people info on several VIOP companies via email last night and two have already started the VIOP porting process and sent thanks you notes to me.

VIOP porting is having your old home phone number transfered to a new provider - AT&T has been known to cut off your home phone service immediately upon finding out you are switching and then re-issue the phone number immediately so they can say it not available when another company tries to get it. Don't tell AT&T you are changing your service. Let the new provider send them the notice (it is something you have to sign and send back to them - can be scanned / emailed or faxed). Once they are notified by another company that you want to port the number, it is illegal for AT&T to terminate service and re-issue the number.

I will warn those who are getting ready to dump AT&T's home service - AT&T gets aggressive with the sales calls and attempts to get you to switch back once you try to leave. When they were first notified our number was being ported, they called and told us someone was trying to slam us (make an unauthorized switch of our service to another provider). When I assured them that we had authorized the switch, they waited the entire legal limit of time they were allowed (about seven days) and called us every day - sometimes more than once - with fantastic offers to stay. One of them actually tried to tell me I was going to be charged a hefty early termination fee for my home phone! We had had service with the same local provider since phone numbers had three letters at the beginning and when you only had to dial four numbers for local calls. Early termination fee my rotund Dino hinney.

Since we left, AT&T has sent us something in the mail at least once a week offering us a special rate plus vouchers up to $200 to switch back. They are getting smarter - they are locking people who do switch back into contracts for home service similar to the cell contracts. They can't call us anymore because we are on the Do not call list (https://www.donotcall.gov/) and we have not had any service with them for more than one year (businesses with whom you have had service with in the past year are allowed to call). Almost everyone in my neighborhood has dumped AT&T due to local phone line problems - AT&T has actually sent people to our homes at least a dozen times to try to get us to switch back - and are now actively trying to get us to order our cable and Internet service to them as well. Fat chance.

mudhead

11-15-2007, 09:42

State version of FCC. State utility commission. Be sure to state the deployment issues. You were serving in WI. They got a newspaper 'round there?

Give you something to do until you get after it.

bulldog49

11-15-2007, 10:00

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 10:00

AT&T has been known to cut off your home phone service immediately upon finding out you are switching and then re-issue the phone number immediately so they can say it not available when another company tries to get it. Don't tell AT&T you are changing your service. Let the new provider send them the notice (it is something you have to sign and send back to them - can be scanned / emailed or faxed). Once they are notified by another company that you want to port the number, it is illegal for AT&T to terminate service and re-issue the number.

I will warn those who are getting ready to dump AT&T's home service - AT&T gets aggressive with the sales calls and attempts to get you to switch back once you try to leave. When they were first notified our number was being ported, they called and told us someone was trying to slam us (make an unauthorized switch of our service to another provider). When I assured them that we had authorized the switch, they waited the entire legal limit of time they were allowed (about seven days) and called us every day - sometimes more than once - with fantastic offers to stay. One of them actually tried to tell me I was going to be charged a hefty early termination fee for my home phone! We had had service with the same local provider since phone numbers had three letters at the beginning and when you only had to dial four numbers for local calls. Early termination fee my rotund Dino hinney.

Since we left, AT&T has sent us something in the mail at least once a week offering us a special rate plus vouchers up to $200 to switch back. They are getting smarter - they are locking people who do switch back into contracts for home service similar to the cell contracts. They can't call us anymore because we are on the Do not call list (https://www.donotcall.gov/) and we have not had any service with them for more than one year (businesses with whom you have had service with in the past year are allowed to call). Almost everyone in my neighborhood has dumped AT&T due to local phone line problems - AT&T has actually sent people to our homes at least a dozen times to try to get us to switch back - and are now actively trying to get us to order our cable and Internet service to them as well. Fat chance.

If it wasn't so infuriating, it would be too funny. They are spending more on customer retention than they would receive in profits for the services described. If AT&T knew one lick about customer retention, they would not implement the policies that teed you off to begin with. They are in total denial that their is an issue until you take action. I had very similar experiences at the corporate level. ARROGANCE!

Johnny Thunder

11-15-2007, 10:04

A few years ago I switched over from ATT/Cingular to Verizon and would never go back.

ATT's direct-to-customer business model is seriously screwed up. Instead of dealing with company employees when you go to the "store" you are dealing with the employees of a Cingular Cellular Franchisee. There is zero accounability and zero standards of service.

When I was with them (and what caused me to leave) I signed on for a second year of service a week before graduating from college. That summer I was going to be living at the beach without internet or land-line phone service. The franchise rep assured me that my automatic billing would be switched over and I would receive seemless service. So, when my cell phone mysteriously shut off one day I had to spend 4 hours in a sweltering Dewey Beach phone booth trying to untangle the mess. First, they said that there might have been an elevation in the current National Security Advisory Level which could effect my service. Next, they said that they'd have to call me back...on the number that had been disconnected...no call. Finally, 3.5 hours later, we discovered that though I was told my billing woudl transfer, it never did. So instead of just calling me up on the phone number THAT THEY GAVE ME they decided to just shut it off. They turned it on 3 days later. Awesome.

I should have been more mindful of my own account. That wasn't their fault. But, if you've ever seen "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels" you've seen the scene at the end where Vinni Jones violently pummels a criminal for threatening the life of his son...he hits him with a car door...his fists...then his boot. That is a pretty good visual for how forcefuly I drove home that I needed to have my billing taken care of up front because I couldn't monitor it myself. But, again, since it wasn't done and I didn't follow up it is my fault.

With Verizon I can take my broken phone and walk into any Dolan-owned Verizon Wireless store and know that I'll get the same service as any other corporate owned location or helpline. I can simply walk up and when it's my turn say, "Here is my broken cellular device. I pay 5 dollars extra a month so you can take care of it while I sit her and listen to show-tune-muzak." Which I do, or go get TCBY next door.

The one nice thing about Cingular was that they told me I could cancel my service in advance...so somewhere in the computer system they had a 9 month counter ticking off my status as their customer. That made me feel good.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 10:04

This is standard industry practice, done by all cell phone companies, not just AT&T. You live in an area where they don't have a tower and your calls have to be routed thru another carrier's. So rather than hit you with roaming charges for every call you make or receive, you are dropped as a customer.

If the company absorbs these charges then they just end-up making it more expensive for other customers. Whoever you switched to will do the same thing, you have to make sure they have a tower in your primary calling area.

I think the non-AT&T carriers are not quite as aggressive at dumping customers. They use the roaming traffic to determine if they should expand their coverage in a given area. At least that is what I have found in the North East.

Sly

11-15-2007, 10:07

We use vonage for our home phone service.

Unless you use the phone quite a bit why have Vontage if you have cell service? Verizon has free anytime IN calling. My VZ cell service is actually cheaper than having a land line with the same features and is only $5 more than Vontage

Cookerhiker

11-15-2007, 10:38

I recently changed cell phone carriers and in researching, I found a chat room where other AT&T customers had the same issues as you Dixie. Apparently the fine print in all the carriers' contracts allows them to terminate if x% or amount of calls aren't from their own towers, but only AT&T seems to enforce this. Example: since moving to Western MD from the DC area, my Verizon phone virutally never draws on Verizon towers (there are none out here) but I get service and thus Verizon is paying US Cellular or Cellular One. Yet Verizon has never threatened to kick me off.....

This is standard industry practice, done by all cell phone companies, not just AT&T. You live in an area where they don't have a tower and your calls have to be routed thru another carrier's. So rather than hit you with roaming charges for every call you make or receive, you are dropped as a customer.

If the company absorbs these charges then they just end-up making it more expensive for other customers. Whoever you switched to will do the same thing, you have to make sure they have a tower in your primary calling area.

I think the non-AT&T carriers are not quite as aggressive at dumping customers. They use the roaming traffic to determine if they should expand their coverage in a given area. At least that is what I have found in the North East.

Bulldog, my experience (see above) is consistent with what Tin Man said. All companies have the right to dump you but only AT&T seems to use this right aggressively.

Flush2wice

11-15-2007, 12:55

All companies have the right to dump you but only AT&T seems to use this right aggressively.

Sprint-Nextel dumps customers that call to complain too much.
Story here. (http://www.gadgetell.com/2007/07/sprint-may-cancel-your-service-if-you-call-customer-service-to-often/)

Sly

11-15-2007, 12:57

Sprint-Nextel dumps customers that call to complain too much.
Story here. (http://www.gadgetell.com/2007/07/sprint-may-cancel-your-service-if-you-call-customer-service-to-often/)

Wow, good thing there's some competition. At least Sprint gave them a month.

Lilred

11-15-2007, 12:57

Unless you use the phone quite a bit why have Vontage if you have cell service? Verizon has free anytime IN calling. My VZ cell service is actually cheaper than having a land line with the same features and is only $5 more than Vontage

We don't have a strong signal in our home so we've kept our landline.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 12:58

If it wasn't so infuriating, it would be too funny. They are spending more on customer retention than they would receive in profits for the services described. If AT&T knew one lick about customer retention, they would not implement the policies that teed you off to begin with. They are in total denial that their is an issue until you take action. I had very similar experiences at the corporate level. ARROGANCE!AT&T is certainly feeling the pinch. I go to church with one AT&T's repairmen - really nice fellow. He asked for prayer not too long ago because all of the junior techs were being laid-off due to a reduction in the number of people using AT&T's land line services.

Maybe AT&T's customer retention crew just isn't smart enough to realize that they are losing customers not because of aggressive advertising by competitors, but because of the nasty practices described in this thread.

Alligator

11-15-2007, 13:06

Wow, good thing there's some competition. At least Sprint gave them a month.Some of those people were calling hundreds of times a month. That article doesn't mention it but I remember reading about it and it really was excessive. The company probably still lost out though with negative publicity.

faarside

11-15-2007, 13:11

Well, I can't say enough about how much I HATE AT&T/Cingular (ya just had ta get me goin on this !@#%*&!).

I WAS a customer of AT&T up until around mid-June of 2007. I purchased my very first cell phone in 1991 and, at that time was a customer of CellularONE, who, years later, was purchased by AT&T Wireless who, years later was purchased by Cingular who, not much later reverted back to AT&T... Auuuuuugh!

Anyway, things were barely acceptable while I was using my original TDMA phone on AT&T; however, when Cingular took over, I received a letter from them saying, "switch over to a Cingular account by March 1, or we'll cancel your account." Ok, reluctantly, I switched to a Cingular account and needed to purchase a new GSM phone. The day the new phone was activated, I realized I lost more than 50% of my coverage area. Cingular basically said, tough... there's nothing to be done about it.

I lived with the coverage problem for a short time until AT&T took over once again. I suppose I was hoping they would put me back on the account/coverage plan I was previously on. Well, they did'nt. Complain as I did, explaining I was a LOYAL CUSTOMER since 1991 (over 16 Years!!) had absolutely NO IMPACT. I told them if they did not resolve my coverage problems by the end of the business day, I would switch to another carrier. They basically said to do what I felt I needed to do.

I did -- I switched my number to Verizon wireless. The switchover took 20 minutes, and coverage is GREAT!

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 13:19

Sprint-Nextel dumps customers that call to complain too much.Story here. (http://www.gadgetell.com/2007/07/sprint-may-cancel-your-service-if-you-call-customer-service-to-often/)Apparently dissatisfied customers have found out about this and are calling in several times per day trying to get terminated. Build a bridge and people will cross it.....

Sly

11-15-2007, 13:24

Early termination fees are predatory. "I can't afford the phone any more." "That will be $175."

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 13:28

Apparently dissatisfied customers have found out about this and are calling in several times per day trying to get terminated. Build a bridge and people will cross it.....
A guy I work with is going to try this with AT&T. Apparently you cannot quit them without paying heavy fees, but they can drop you whenever they want. His idea is to complain 5 times a day until the decide to drop him so he won't have to pay the cancelation fee.

whitefoot_hp

11-15-2007, 14:08

cell phones represent an evil element of society, the obsession of the individual and the exaggeration of his/her importance. i would interpret your dilemna as a blessing, dixiecritter.

Deadeye

11-15-2007, 14:26

I hate all cell phone companys. I just hate Verizon the least. Get Verizon for the best coast-coast coverage.

There's no saints running any phone company - here's what I had to say about Verizon over on Rock's site:

I don't recall the exact details, but the Vermont attorney general just won a case against Verizon, and got a sizeable settlement for local Verizon ex-customers. Seems Verizon was cancelling peoples' "Unlimited" service because they were using it too much.

The customers and the AG helped correct Verizon's definition of "unlimited." Maybe we can do the same for AT&T!

FWIW, I use Tracphone pre-paid service, and have been very happy with it. I don't use it a lot, but it works for what I need it for... so far.

Yukon

11-15-2007, 14:32

You guys are scaring me with all this negative talk about AT&T, I just switched my cell service to them from NEXTEL, I hope I don't encounter these problems.

Summit

11-15-2007, 14:33

A few comments from a Telecom IT professional:

It's "VOIP," not "VIOP" :p (Voice Over Internet Protocol)

VOIP has nothing to do with number portability. FCC regulates that all telco companies must provide number portability, i.e. keep your cell phone number but move it to a different carrier. NOTE: You cannot port a cell phone number to a land line number or visa versa.

AT&T Wireless has the commercial "More bars in more places," but it is a false claim as Verizon Wireless (VZW) owns far more cell towers than any other carrier. That should be VZW's commercial jingle. ;)

All telco companies (including cellular) are terrible at billing, but hey that's why I have a job, so I don't mind! :eek:
All telco companies are equally terrible at customer service - another reason I have a corporate telco management job! ;)

I have not had a land line in 3-4 years, not since our oldest child "had to have a cell phone." I sorta miss those telemarketers' calls at mealtime! :D

I've had great success in GA/NC on the AT with VZW. You should use the cellular carrier that works best where you live, work, and play however. Don't try to save $5 a month because one is cheaper and sacrifice poor coverage. When shopping for the right carrier for you, you should shop COVERAGE, Devices, Store Convenience, Price.

In dealing with large contracts in the corporate world though, VZW is just as arrogant or more so than AT&T. They ARE THE BEST and they know it. There's is a take-it-or-leave-it negotiating stance.

I have a Treo 700p with unlimited data plan (as well as it is on the family share plan for voice). It's great to get weather updates while hiking and I usually have full voice and data capabilities on the ridges. My wife and I are into text messaging each other, and it's great to be backpacking, get on a ridge, pull out the Treo and turn on the phone and have her "love message" pop up as soon as it connects to the network! :)

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 14:39

You guys are scaring me with all this negative talk about AT&T, I just switched my cell service to them from NEXTEL, I hope I don't encounter these problems.If you just switched, it might be wise to see if you are still in some sort of grace period for backing out.

Creek Dancer

11-15-2007, 14:40

Try sending your letter to the CEO or one of the top executives of the company. If you send your letter to customer service, your complaint will most likely fall on deaf ears and nothing will come of it, as you said.

I did a little research. Try sending your letter to Ronald E. Spears. He is listed as one of the top officers of the company. He is a West Point graduate and may have a better understanding of your position as a member of the Armed Forces.

Ronald E. Spears
Group President-Global Business Services
One AT&T Center Parkway
San Antonio, TX

Good luck!

I put this into perspective for myself.

We has AT&T in Louisiana for 4.5 years. We moved here and had AT&T for 3 years - that makes 7+ years of regular payments of long distance service. They were also our ISP in Louisiana for 4.5 years. When we got here we switched out wireless over to them because they were here and we could roll it into one bill for convenience.

At to that in 27 months of deployments to Iraq I used the AT&T calling cards where you spend a hell of a lot for a few minutes to call. And during the last one I paid for a cell service I never got to use. Even when I am home I am paying and rarely using them.

All those years a paying customer. All those years of cell service where I hardly even used what I was paying for. And for 3 months deployed on freaking US ARMY business they cancel me for costing them too much (that was the girls wording).

That is so upside down I wonder how they stay in business. We have this saying "They will bend over a dollar to pick up a dime". That describes this company to a T.

My plan - well we already changed cellular coverage. Tomorrow I plan to look into losing the shackles of their local phone connection and go VOIP. This also means I will no longer be using them as my long distance carrier either. I wrote them a very tactful letter describing how this has all come to pass. I really don't expect that to come to anything.

Anyway - I hope anyone out there with AT&T gets the hint early and drops them ASAP. Don't wait for them to screw you over.

Sly

11-15-2007, 14:42

If you just switched, it might be wise to see if you are still in some sort of grace period for backing out.

Well if his area has cell coverage, I don't see a problem.

Yukon

11-15-2007, 14:43

If you just switched, it might be wise to see if you are still in some sort of grace period for backing out.

Well I switched about 3 months ago so "just switched" might have been an exageration. I don't have any complaints thus far, the phone works great and my service has been great. I think were you are plays a big role in it as far as picking your provider.

Sly

11-15-2007, 14:45

cell phones represent an evil element of society, the obsession of the individual and the exaggeration of his/her importance. i would interpret your dilemna as a blessing, dixiecritter.

If you want a car, a rental car, a bank account, a credit card, or you have a family, you need a phone. The way some use them is another problem entirely.

Sly

11-15-2007, 14:51

I have a Treo 700p with unlimited data plan (as well as it is on the family share plan for voice). It's great to get weather updates while hiking and I usually have full voice and data capabilities on the ridges. My wife and I are into text messaging each other, and it's great to be backpacking, get on a ridge, pull out the Treo and turn on the phone and have her "love message" pop up as soon as it connects to the network! :)

Not for nothing but you can't go a day without that reaffirmation? What happened to absence makes the heart grow fonder?

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 14:56

In dealing with large contracts in the corporate world though, VZW is just as arrogant or more so than AT&T. They ARE THE BEST and they know it. There's is a take-it-or-leave-it negotiating stance.

I found VZW corporate less arrogant than AT&T, but then maybe we just had a better account team. Sure they have fixed plans and you must work within those plans. However, I found they gave the largest discount for commitment levels that you may or may not achieve. As long as they see you are trying to reach that commitment they will honor the discount. Additionally, they are willing to throw in some extras that AT&T would not - like in-building coverage in a large corporate campus or deeper discounts on data services.

whitefoot_hp

11-15-2007, 14:58

If you want a car, a rental car, a bank account, a credit card, or you have a family, you need a phone. The way some use them is another problem entirely.
my point exactly. we are forced to regard a cell phone as a neccessity.
i recall a time that civilization flourished without the 'neccessity' of a cell phone.

whitefoot_hp

11-15-2007, 14:59

an by the way, i despise verizon wireless.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 15:01

Well I switched about 3 months ago so "just switched" might have been an exageration. I don't have any complaints thus far, the phone works great and my service has been great. I think were you are plays a big role in it as far as picking your provider.

Well if his area has cell coverage, I don't see a problem.Walter, glad to hear the service has been good and hope it stays that way. I seem to remember that Walter must travel a great deal on business, hence my concern for his having AT&T as a provider. Have I got you confused with another poster, Walter?
If you want a car, a rental car, a bank account, a credit card, or you have a family, you need a phone. The way some use them is another problem entirely.
cell phones represent an evil element of society, the obsession of the individual and the exaggeration of his/her importance. i would interpret your dilemna as a blessing, dixiecritter.Some of us have darn good reasons to be reachable on-the-go -- kids, elderly parents, sick family members....
It's "VOIP," not "VIOP" :p (Voice Over Internet Protocol)::: Dyslexic Dino bites Summit on toes :D :::

Sly

11-15-2007, 15:04

my point exactly. we are forced to regard a cell phone as a neccessity.
i recall a time that civilization flourished without the 'neccessity' of a cell phone.

an by the way, i despise verizon wireless.

LOL... We also lived without electricity. For most you need a *phone* of one type or another if you want to carry out everyday business. It's always been like that. These days cellphones are more practical than land lines.

Only VZ?

Yukon

11-15-2007, 15:09

Walter, glad to hear the service has been good and hope it stays that way. I seem to remember that Walter must travel a great deal on business, hence my concern for his having AT&T as a provider. Have I got you confused with another poster, Walter?

Yes I think you might, but it's ok :) .

I don't travel A LOT with my company but do occasionally, I have had Verizon, NEXTEL and AT&T so far and all three have had faults.

Summit

11-15-2007, 15:20

Not for nothing but you can't go a day without that reaffirmation? What happened to absence makes the heart grow fonder?It's not whether I can or not, but whether I want to. I don't call / connect everyday on my week or so long hikes. BTW, today is my drop-dead gorgeous wife's 46th BD! :banana

Sly

11-15-2007, 16:17

BTW, today is my drop-dead gorgeous wife's 46th BD! :banana

Well, there's a reason to stay in touch! Tell her Happy Birthday from Sly!

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 16:22

If you just switched, it might be wise to see if you are still in some sort of grace period for backing out.
One of the captains at work had a similar problem with AT&T - but they shafted her within her first 30 days so she got out free.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 16:24

Well I switched about 3 months ago so "just switched" might have been an exageration. I don't have any complaints thus far, the phone works great and my service has been great. I think were you are plays a big role in it as far as picking your provider.
I agree with you there. I spent some time researching Cingular 3 years ago and was satisfied they were going to work for me. I didn't forsee them getting bought out by AT&T unfortunatly for me. I am really thinking it is the best thing that happened to me. If this had happened during my thru I would have been very pissed.

taildragger

11-15-2007, 16:24

my point exactly. we are forced to regard a cell phone as a neccessity.
i recall a time that civilization flourished without the 'neccessity' of a cell phone.

Was that back when we had car phones, pay phones, rotary phones, pidgeons, or foxes (ala robin hood men in tights)

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 16:29

As to necessity. I was VERY anti cell phone. I figured the only thing a hiker really needed was a calling card and a pay phone in town. What changed my mind is the fact I can hardley find a pay phone anymore.

Using a cell was cheaper for me when I was on the road than other options - and I travel a good bit with my job. When I got this phone I found one that could be my FM radio for checking weather, play MP3s so I could listen to some Skynard in the mornings, takes 2.2MP pictures and had a flash, and the phone part could be shut off until I wanted to use it - like IN TOWN! I figured one device to cover a bunch of functions was a good strategy. The only part I didn't figure into that decision was AT&T now owns my wireless provider. That was the Achilies heel in my plan.

So all that time, effort, and treasure spent on this device for my hike got ruined because of AT&T.

taildragger

11-15-2007, 16:32

BTW, what are you doing with the phone?

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 16:34

I am getting a new sim chip for it for pay as you go and giving it to my son for his 18th birthday. It is only a coupld of months old and has lots of stuff now for it like 2 MB chips, chargers, headphones, external speakers (free gift from Sony) and some other do-dads.

Sly

11-15-2007, 16:36

Rock you can probably sell your old cell phone on Ebay if no one here wants to buy it. Search for model number and see what they're going for.

Edit: Oh OK.

warraghiyagey

11-15-2007, 16:36

Just a Hiker

11-15-2007, 16:37

I am glad this sort of thing doesn't happen here in Maine, because more than half of my cell calls are on some other Company's network. I have my phone through T-Moble, but I don't always have a T-Mobile signal. I think my apartment is in the "Bermuda Triangle" of cell service. I get a T-Mobile signal in my kitchen, a Unicel signal in my living room, and an AT&T signal in my bedroom. I don't even want to know what happens in the bathroom!

Just Jim

warraghiyagey

11-15-2007, 16:39

. . . I don't even want to know what happens in the bathroom!

Just Jim

My money's on Verizon:p

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 16:40

Well what sold me the most on US Cellular was my LTC - he is from near Damascus and said even out on his farm he gets signal with US Cellular whereas I could only ever get signal in Damascus in one spot and only if the planets lined up. He uses his when traveling in the Appalachians and gets signal a hell of a lot more than I ever did. With my old phone (and my work phone which is Sprint) I cannot get signal where I live very well if at all, but now with US Cellular I am doing great.

Jan LiteShoe

11-15-2007, 16:54

My plan - well we already changed cellular coverage. Tomorrow I plan to look into losing the shackles of their local phone connection and go VOIP. This also means I will no longer be using them as my long distance carrier either. I wrote them a very tactful letter describing how this has all come to pass. I really don't expect that to come to anything.

Anyway - I hope anyone out there with AT&T gets the hint early and drops them ASAP. Don't wait for them to screw you over.

Has anyone else noticed a recent dip is customer services among the big companies? Huge corporations seem to not give a flip about YOU.

I recently went throught this when Embarq (my phone/DSL company) parted ways with Earthlink (my ISSP) and I wanted to keep my earthlink website and mailbox. When I finally got someone who I could understand, (after a slew of electronic obstacles - press this, press that), it was an exercise in frustration.

The only real power we have left to influence the way things are going is economic. Hit 'em where it hurts.

Spend your dollars wisely. It's new the "vote."
:)

Jan LiteShoe

11-15-2007, 16:59

As to necessity. I was VERY anti cell phone.

Ach! I've just gone over to The Dark Side this month, my first cell.

I am doing some new work, at home, so the only way to get out and have sort of a life is to take a cell along.

I feel so leashed.

:mad::mad:

Jan LiteShoe

11-15-2007, 17:00

It's not whether I can or not, but whether I want to. I don't call / connect everyday on my week or so long hikes. BTW, today is my drop-dead gorgeous wife's 46th BD! :banana

Well, there's a reason to stay in touch! Tell her Happy Birthday from Sly!

Sly, I think that comment deserved a bananna too.
Here, use this one: :banana

:)

Alligator

11-15-2007, 17:05

Try sending your letter to the CEO or one of the top executives of the company. If you send your letter to customer service, your complaint will most likely fall on deaf ears and nothing will come of it, as you said.

I did a little research. Try sending your letter to Ronald E. Spears. He is listed as one of the top officers of the company. He is a West Point graduate and may have a better understanding of your position as a member of the Armed Forces.

Ronald E. Spears
Group President-Global Business Services
One AT&T Center Parkway
San Antonio, TX

Good luck!This is very good advice.

Recently my wife was unable to attend a conference and had to cancel her hotel reservations. Unfortunately, she was ill and forgot to do that in a timely manner. She mentioned to me that she was working on getting the charges reversed. I missed a call the other day but the message on the machine was some guy who said he was talking to the hotel's GM and that the charges should be reversed. I figured he was some lower position than the GM, and didn't expect anything quick. Actually, she had been playing phone tag for a couple of days and the guy who called was the CEO of the hotel chain. Offhand I forget where her reservation was but the chain includes the Omni hotels, which are rather nice to say the least. She had decided (after a bit) to go straight to the top and she did it as above, by googling. Not saying it will work everytime. Just funny though because I figured the guy was the front desk manager or the hotel accountant.

D'Artagnan

11-15-2007, 17:09

... I wanted to keep my earthlink website and mailbox...

We went through this recently and for an additional $5.00 per month, they will allow you to retain your old earthlink email addy. (This may be too late for you but thought I'd share it anyway.) ;)

rlharris

11-15-2007, 17:11

There are very big gaps in cell coverage in the Whites. I'd have to drive 10 to 15 miles from my house to get a signal. More in some directions. You can check the providers' claimed coverage on the Internet. Most providers have coverage maps at their websites, but they can be inaccurate (overly optimistic).

Verizon still has only analog signals in some of their coverage areas up here.

BTW, they also want out of the land line business in ME, NH, and VT.

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 17:20

Looks like my wife and I hit a nerve.

Cell phones suck.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 17:20

The only real power we have left to influence the way things are going is economic. Hit 'em where it hurts....Spend your dollars wisely. It's new the "vote."The success of VOIP services like Vontage and the number of people who have abandoned land lines altogether should let AT&T know that it is different world from the one when their nonsense was just accepted and that they are going to have to deliver both quality service and customer care to stay in the game. Phone service is far from the only business to be experiencing this phenomenon. Many large retail goods and service providers (Sears, Kmart, AOL & HP for example) have experienced downturns because they ignored the customers' needs /wants and relied on the old business models that just don't work today. The ones that are thriving and surviving are those that have realized that people are no longer willing to put up with whatever treatment is dished out and are willing to look outside of the box for alternatives when the service and customer care just aren't there anymore.

Lone Wolf

11-15-2007, 17:22

Looks like my wife and I hit a nerve.

Cell phones suck.

really? i was was fixin' to get my first one tomorrow along with leki poles and a water filter. guess i'll hold off

woodsy

11-15-2007, 17:27

Looks like my wife and I hit a nerve.

Cell phones suck.
Thanks, i didn't want to say it but....they only work some of the time.
That must be why i don't own one:D

Johnny Thunder

11-15-2007, 17:27

The success of VOIP services like Vontage and the number of people who have abandoned land lines altogether should let AT&T know that it is different world from the one when their nonsense was just accepted and that they are going to have to deliver both quality service and customer care to stay in the game. Phone service is far from the only business to be experiencing this phenomenon. Many large retail goods and service providers (Sears, Kmart, AOL & HP for example) have experienced downturns because they ignored the customers' needs /wants and relied on the old business models that just don't work today. The ones that are thriving and surviving are those that have realized that people are no longer willing to put up with whatever treatment is dished out and are willing to look outside of the box for alternatives when the service and customer care just aren't there anymore.

Everybody knows about...

www.gethuman.com (http://www.gethuman.com)

Right?

Not saying that this fixes the problem but it does get you a person right off the bat.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-15-2007, 17:27

really? i was was fixin' to get my first one tomorrow along with leki poles and a water filter. guess i'll hold off::: Now Dino knows what LW wants for Christmas :D :::

Sly

11-15-2007, 17:28

Everybody knows about...

www.gethuman.com (http://www.gethuman.com)

Right?

Not saying that this fixes the problem but it does get you a person right off the bat.

Great site! thanks...

SGT Rock

11-15-2007, 17:46

LWolf, you told me you already had one to piss people off.

I called Charter and switched over to VOIP. It will raise my cable bill by a whole $15 and reduce my phone bill by a far site more - with the same services and options I have now with AT&T.

AT&T can kiss my rebel ass.

Now to set up the new cell for my thru-hike. Another PITA.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 17:48

really? i was was fixin' to get my first one tomorrow along with leki poles and a water filter. guess i'll hold off

Hold off on the leki's, I think these (http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0036394227858a.shtml)might be better ...

Sly

11-15-2007, 17:51

Hold off on the leki's, I think these (http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0036394227858a.shtml)might be better ...

Now if you could make the other pole a rifle you'd be on to something.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 17:57

Now if you could make the other pole a rifle you'd be on to something.

I was looking for one of those. I think you can get one custom made if you know the right people. ;) There was one featured in Day of the Jackal (1973), where the assassin (played by Edward Fox) hid a custom rifle in a crutch.

Sly

11-15-2007, 18:02

I was looking for one of those. I think you can get one custom made if you know the right people. ;) There was one featured in Day of the Jackal (1973), where the assassin (played by Edward Fox) hid a custom rifle in a crutch.

Yeah, I liked that. Didn't Bruce Willis use the same in the remake? Good book too.

warraghiyagey

11-15-2007, 18:22

Yeah, I liked that. Didn't Bruce Willis use the same in the remake? Good book too.

No, Willis had Jack Black make him a state of the art servo driven van mount tripod. Gun was also high-power/high-tech.

Sly

11-15-2007, 18:28

No, Willis had Jack Black make him a state of the art servo driven van mount tripod. Gun was also high-power/high-tech.

Oh right. Now I remember. He was going to shot the 1st Lady or something.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 18:29

No, Willis had Jack Black make him a state of the art servo driven van mount tripod. Gun was also high-power/high-tech.

And I don't think Jack was too happy with the test results.

Tin Man

11-15-2007, 18:31

Oh right. Now I remember. He was going to shot the 1st Lady or something.

Yes, and the similarity to Hillary made you want to do some serious rooting for the bad guy/person (insert your political preference for who the bad guy/person was). ;)

canerunner

11-15-2007, 18:40

cell phones represent an evil element of society, the obsession of the individual and the exaggeration of his/her importance. i would interpret your dilemna as a blessing, dixiecritter.

That's all fine and dandy, unless your employer requires you to carry one. Whether you want to blame it on the "evil element of society" or not, when one's income is directly tied to it, perspectives change.

Idealism is a great thing, but reality is what many of us have to deal with.

pure_mahem

11-15-2007, 18:44

Nother advantage of VOIP is you can have secondary numbers. Say you have a brother or parents or what not that live in california. You can have a local california number that would not cost them anything to call you. I have never used this because every body I call already has VOIP so it doesn't cost to call anyone in the lower 48.

Other options when going abroad if you have internet axcess is to download yahoo messenger and use the voice messenger it doesn't cost a dime as long as you have internet axcess. You can even video chat in this messenger using a cam.

Looked into globalstar costs are $900 for the phone and $20 a month for unlimited home service makes no mention of traveling abroad roaming charges but I'm sure they have a plan for that with what one would pay for cell service This phone would be ideal for hiking anywhere in north america no dead spots ever.

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 12:36

That's all fine and dandy, unless your employer requires you to carry one. Whether you want to blame it on the "evil element of society" or not, when one's income is directly tied to it, perspectives change.

Idealism is a great thing, but reality is what many of us have to deal with.
i understand that there are practical purposes that cell phones serve. I am addressing the elevation of the cell phone way beyond practicality. In my area, it is almost a social taboo to not have one. Let's be honest, its almost a social status type object. Some one who does not have is either poor does not take his life seriously type stuff. Its not the use of cell phones for work and family that i frown upon, its this hysteria that parents buy into and their middle school child 'needs' a cell phone. Its another bandwagon imposed cultural neccessity and i reject it. sorry if that is idealistic but i take my ideals and turn them into reality. once upon a time, a liberal society was an ideal notion and oppressive feudal lords were the reality.

And Sly, i am sure i would despise other cell phone companies if i had the four year relationship with them that i did at VW. :)

Sly

11-16-2007, 12:45

Its not the use of cell phones for work and family that i frown upon, its this hysteria that parents buy into and their middle school child 'needs' a cell phone. Its another bandwagon imposed cultural neccessity and i reject it.

I totally agree with you there. If I were a parent, they wouldn't have one until they were able to pay for it themselves and NOT be allowed to take it to school. If I were in charge of schools they wouldn't be allowed period.

Lilred

11-16-2007, 12:49

There are practical purposes to giving a middle schooler a phone as well. As a parent, both my children got cell phones when they started driving. I held off that long. Parents today consider it to be a safety issue. Not only can they reach their child at any time, but the child can reach them at any time in case of an emergency. I know 9/11 changed my mind about cell phones and I'm betting it changed a lot of other people's minds as well. It would be interesting to find out if the usage of cell phones increased dramatically after that tragedy. I'm betting it did.

I see cell phones come in handy at school every year. When the weather is bad and students are sent home early, parents working in another city may not get that information. Before cell phones, the office was inundated with kids needing to use the phone to reach parents. Not any more. Now we use cell phones and the office lines are kept open for other necessities. Being able to reach your child at any given moment, and vice-versa, is a reality that we need in today's society. You can have your ideals, as a parent, I'll take peace of mind.

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 13:00

middle schoolers dont drive. They just text their friends all day, giving our brave educators ONE MORE BIT OF NONSENSE to deal with all day. i dont buy the trade off. you are putting your child in the hands of the school anyway, the cell phone just gives an illusion of control. rather than learning, they get the idea that they are some sort of social warrior who needs to communicate with their buddies all day. if you give cell phones one inch of practicality, they take one mile of nonsense and negativity. Now cell phones have to be mp3 players and video games and sooner or later education wont be possible. teachers will hate them and parent will cling to them because of the 'security' they provide.

<Bleep>

my parents gave me a cell phone in high school. it did way more harm than good. i used it a lot more for illicit behavoir (thats all i will say) than i did for communicating with my parents. With the good comes the bad. but hey, take your peace of mind.

Footslogger

11-16-2007, 13:14

Hmmmm ...this is starting to head in the direction of "what did we ever do without them" dialogue. I raised 2 kids before cell phones were small and practical. Had one in my car (big old booklet model) but back the rage was the "pocket pager". Never did buy either of my kids have one of those pagers.

Guess just about any techology is subject to potential abuse. Heck ...just look at at the computer. We had an old Apple desktop when my kids were in school. Now just about every kid has their own laptop.

Not sure where I'm going with this but it seems like evolution in technology is inevitable. In the long haul I have found that owning a cell phone has done more good than bad. For one thing, I no longer have a land telephone line at home any more so my "home phone" is always with me and given the built in "caller ID" stuff I can chose to answer or let it go to voice mail.

'Slogger

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 13:16

yes but when technology begins to have adverse social consequences that outweighs its positive merits we as humans do not have to simply accept it as 'inevitable.'

Footslogger

11-16-2007, 13:29

yes but when technology begins to have adverse social consequences that outweighs its positive merits we as humans do not have to simply accept it as 'inevitable.'

================================

I see your point and don't disagree at that level. Just not quite sure where you draw the line in terms of cell phone use/abuse when it comes down down to essential communication.

I will probably always be one of those individuals who have a love/hate relationship with cell phones.

'Slogger

Lone Wolf

11-16-2007, 13:30

i don't love em or hate em. i don't own one. never will

partinj

11-16-2007, 13:32

Hey Frolocking Dinosaurs if the use your phone that little get a track phone
yiu can choose how many mintures you use by get the air time card.I was so fed with all the crab you get from these phone companys. I got a track phone i never not got a sig. Just my 2 cents

Sly

11-16-2007, 14:01

I never had to have 24 hour communication with my parents growing up and by virtue learned independence.. The weather argument is kind of silly. Either it's lousy out or it's not. You either take the bus home or you walk. A contingency plan should already be in place.

When 9/11 happened all, or most, cell service was out due to massive usage. Another false sense of security.

Footslogger

11-16-2007, 14:09

Well ...that's it then. I'm calling Verizon and cutting off my service. All this time I thought cell phones had some practical value.

'Slogger

Sly

11-16-2007, 14:12

Well ...that's it then. I'm calling Verizon and cutting off my service. All this time I thought cell phones had some practical value.

Of course they have practical value, they also have impractical value. :D

Dakota Dan

11-16-2007, 14:12

..........When 9/11 happened all, or most, cell service was out due to massive usage. Another false sense of security.

It can be a tornado warning or just really bad weather, I've noticed it doesn't take much to overload the networks where nothing works good.

It's probably at a similar point where some homes had electricity and some don't. Won't be long before everybody's got them(cell phones), and dependant on them.

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 14:17

Well ...that's it then. I'm calling Verizon and cutting off my service. All this time I thought cell phones had some practical value.

'Slogger
no one is saying the dont. My point is that their practical value has been so over exaggerated that we ware experiencing adverse social consequences as a result.

if you believe your benefits from a cell phone out weigh the cost, then by all means keep using your phone. my primary reason for not having one right now is financial more than anything. i see some value in the devices. some.

its just these folks who say, well nine eleven proved we all need them, or my kids need them because the weather can chage, etc etc. or i need to be reachable at any given moment just because i am that important.

here, the adverse results are: false sense of security, youngsters wasting time playing with the destractions while they should be getting educated, educators being driven crazy, the inflating of an individuals ego, and me being driven crazy at school when i am taking a test and i have to listen to some a-hole's cell phone vibrate like a jack hammer while i am trying to concentrate. all because of some bandwagon cultural 'neccessity.'

Sly

11-16-2007, 14:24

max patch

11-16-2007, 14:25

My middle schooler does not have a cell as he doesn't need one. I let him take mine on the rare ocassion - maybe once a month - that it is to my benefit for him call me. Usually to get picked up somewhere. He is the only one of his closest friends that does not have one.

My not yet old enough to drive high schooler has a cell because it greatly simplifies my life in picking him up from wrestling practice, basketball practice, after school meetings, etc. We spend a lot less time "waiting" on him; he calls when the activity is complete.

Schools here confiscate the phone if it goes off during school hours. As they should.

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 14:29

Hey Whitefoot, I don't know if you heard but recently in GA, a student threw a teacher down that tried to take his cell phone away after several warnings. He was suspended and kicked off the football team and may have been arrested.

Other students interviewed on TV were all, "He such a nice kid, I can't believe they're doing this to him" :rolleyes:

Good lord. thanks for telling me about this. Yeah, soon kids will get the notion that the constitution guarntees them a cell phone and their right to use it in class despite what the 'fascist' teacher tries to say. this is all more legitimate reason to doubt the future of american society.

what a punk kid.

Sly

11-16-2007, 14:29

Won't be long before everybody's got them(cell phones), and dependant on them.

I don't know if I'll ever be dependant on them. My last call received was about a week ago (it's been longer) and the last call I made was 5 days ago (I've gone longer).

faarside

11-16-2007, 14:32

an by the way, i despise verizon wireless.

I do as well... Unfortunately, they are the only game in town for me. It was PAINFUL for me to switch over to them after 16+ years of loyalty to my other carrier.

dixicritter

11-16-2007, 14:51

Look folks this thread isn't about kids having cell phones in schools or any of that other BS.

I started this thread because Rock spent so much time working out the system that would work best for him on his thru hike. Let's not turn this into some political, cell phone bashing, or other such nonsense thread please.

Lone Wolf

11-16-2007, 14:53

BASH YOUR CELL PHONE!!!
KILL YOUR T.V.!!
:eek: :D
But don't you dare MOON that gaddam COG.

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 14:56

dixicritter

11-16-2007, 15:12

Not if you don't post that crap it won't be. :)

Sly

11-16-2007, 15:14

Yes, this isn't a cell phone bashing thread per se, just a cell phone company bashing thread. Stay on topic! ;)

dixicritter

11-16-2007, 15:16

exactly. :D

whitefoot_hp

11-16-2007, 15:19

so easy to get confused in this high tech world. my apologies. :)

Kirby

11-16-2007, 15:34

Sprint is pathetic, my dad and I are going to drop them as soon as we can. Basically, unless you live in, say, their headquarters, their reception sucks. We are considering T Mobile or Verizon to switch too, I will be sure to stear us away from AT&T.

Kirby

Uncle Silly

11-16-2007, 15:35

A guy I work with is going to try this with AT&T. Apparently you cannot quit them without paying heavy fees, but they can drop you whenever they want. His idea is to complain 5 times a day until the decide to drop him so he won't have to pay the cancelation fee.

Hahaha -- that's a great tactic!

You can also get out of contracts for free if they raise rates on your plan. Verizon a little while ago changed their text-messaging rates from 5 to 10 cents each (or maybe it was 10 to 15, I don't recall exactly). Customers were able to use this rate change to get out of their contract -- the rate change wasn't optional, and also wasn't part of their original contract; since they didn't accept the change, Verizon's only option was to let them go. This worked even for those who had the $5/month all-you-can-eat text-message plan.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-16-2007, 15:54

Nother advantage of VOIP is you can have secondary numbers. Say you have a brother or parents or what not that live in california. You can have a local california number that would not cost them anything to call you. I got a Chattanooga, TN telephone number when I went to VOIP so my mom, dad and 91 yo aunt (and the host of doctors and home health providers they have) could call anytime - cost me a whooping $3.95 a month. Since mom's recent relocation to frolicking down trails of gold, it has become critically important to me that my dad have the ability to call anytime he needs or wants.

Smile

11-16-2007, 15:57

DC & SGTR: I wish there was some way for you guys to get some credit for this from AT&T. Have you considered a third party calling for you?

I know a guy........

:)

Nightwalker

11-17-2007, 01:17

Trillium

11-17-2007, 09:26

I have dealt with AT&T for many years buying service for large corporations. One word describes their approach - ARROGANCE! So you're saying they're University of Michigan peeps?

Nightwalker

11-17-2007, 11:03

So you're saying they're University of Michigan peeps?

Like a Carolina Gamecock until 4 weeks ago...

:D

generoll

11-17-2007, 13:52

Verizon works in Hot Springs. Cingular doesn't (didn't).

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-17-2007, 14:00

Verizon works in Hot Springs. Cingular doesn't (didn't).Vaerizon users are the only ones with cell service at the SEHHA campouts in Hot Springs.

Sly

11-17-2007, 15:19

Verizon users are the only ones with cell service at the SEHHA campouts in Hot Springs.

I think it was US Cellular that put the tower in on Rich Mountain. So anyone they allow to use it should get cell service.

Uncle Silly

11-17-2007, 15:47

I think it was US Cellular that put the tower in on Rich Mountain. So anyone they allow to use it should get cell service.

It's not just an 'allow' thing, it's also a technology thing. Different companies use different network technologies on different frequencies, and unless you're on the same technology and frequency, you won't get service.

Cingular vs Verizon is a perfect example. Cingular uses GSM; Verizon uses CDMA. Verizon phones won't work with a GSM tower at all, just as a Cingular phone won't work with a CDMA tower.

As far as I can tell, US Cellular uses CDMA networks, so Verizon phones would potentially get service from a USC tower. Cingular/AT&T phones will not.

Sly

11-17-2007, 16:07

Can US Cellular prevent Verizon customers from getting service using the tower?

Uncle Silly

11-17-2007, 16:36

Can US Cellular prevent Verizon customers from getting service using the tower?

I think it's technically possible but usually not done. As long as Verizon says your phone/account is valid, US Cellular provides your phone with service. You may or may not get charged for roaming, depending on the peering agreements (between USC and Verizon) and your plan (between you & Verizon).

There may in fact be some FCC ruling on this; meaning, if companies A & B are using the same technology and frequency, and I'm connecting to a B tower with an A phone, B may be legally obligated to provide me with service, although A will equally be obligated to pay B for the trouble. I'm certain there will be some sort of ruling to ensure that all cell phones can connect to any available tower to contact emergency services (911 or E911).

Sly

11-17-2007, 17:06

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-17-2007, 17:15

I think it was US Cellular that put the tower in on Rich Mountain. So anyone they allow to use it should get cell service.Seriously, no one was getting a signal except us last time I was there. I let several guys use my phone to let there wives know they had arrived and were safe.

Sly

11-17-2007, 17:40

Seriously, no one was getting a signal except us last time I was there. I let several guys use my phone to let there wives know they had arrived and were safe.

When was the last time you were there? Was the tower in place and operational? And did they have Verizon or US Cellular?

Frolicking Dinosaurs

11-17-2007, 17:53

Sorry, I didn't ask what provider they had -- and the last time I was there was the weekend of Sept. 15th

weary

11-17-2007, 18:57

Right thanks. The cell companies may as well cooperate to expand their coverage. I can't quite understand why someone like AT&T would terminate someone's service if companies are reciprocating. I mean, it seems like it equal out eventually.
The only problem is that "someone like AT&T" as a result of too many management mistakes, no longer exists. The company has died. Someone (cingular) has bought the name.

Weary

Uncle Silly

11-17-2007, 19:04

The only problem is that "someone like AT&T" as a result of too many management mistakes, no longer exists. The company has died. Someone (cingular) has bought the name.

That's what I understood to have happened as well. Cingular bought the AT&T Wireless business entity, then changed their operating name to AT&T. I'm not certain though; it's quite likely I'm missing a step or two. There's a lot of inbreeding going on in the telecomm world these days.

whitefoot_hp

11-17-2007, 19:15

Get much water up your nose?
pardon?

orangebug

11-17-2007, 20:16

Bell South Mobility and SBC merged resources to create Cingular. AT&T had sold off it's remaining mobile service to Cingular about 4-5 years ago. SBC bought the remnants of AT&T after they left consumer telephone services, really existing as a trademark only. SBC renamed itself AT&T and subsequently purchased Cingular and BellSouth.

What was old is new again. AT&T has a huge chunk of US telephone services. The industry continues to morph as VOIP becomes more standard as more homes get broadband, and as AT&T is forced to sell "naked DSL". Wireless will become more the accepted norm. Consolidation of the industry will continue until monopoly returns and litigation corrects it.

weary

11-17-2007, 20:34