View Full Version : Journey: Humans are an invasive species
Just got my latest issue of Journeys and was reading Wendy Probst’s, (managing editor) comments about the trail and I guess I am put off a little by her comments that “humans sometimes are an invasive species”…well we certainly have an impact on our environment which is often negative, but hopefully we can make sound choices as stewards of the trail (and our plaint) that preserve it for future generations to enjoy. Like the bobcats she’s concerned about, my ancestors are natives not invasive. Most of us that frequent these forums and read magazines like Journeys have a good sense for what we need to do to minimize impact and preserve our natural resources, but I feel like I did something wrong when I read the tone of articles like hers. I guess it’s just me.
Lone Wolf
11-15-2007, 10:35
they need to stop printing Journeys. trees are intruded upon
Well, it is intended to have some shock value, but I wouldn't be too offended. She did say 'sometimes'. Sometime we are like an invasive species. We have to go beyond the surface and not be afraid to question our actions, past and present, and what impact it might have on the future. L.Wolf makes a good point.
Remember the key to success in the future is sustainability.
If you can fake that, the rest is easy.
ChimneySpring
11-15-2007, 11:01
Quick question... does this mag indicate anywhere on it's masthead that it's an FSC certified publication? If not, and you want to get her panties in a wad, send an editorial questioning why they aren't active forest stewards.
Lone Wolf
11-15-2007, 11:15
Quick question... does this mag indicate anywhere on it's masthead that it's an FSC certified publication? If not, and you want to get her panties in a wad, send an editorial questioning why they aren't active forest stewards.
yes it does. at least 17.5% of the fiber used in the manufacturing process comes from well-managed forests, according to the rules of the FSC, and contains at least 30% recycled post-consumer waste paper.
taildragger
11-15-2007, 11:25
Invasive species my azz. I love how people think so highly of themselves that they believe that they are no longer part of the environment.
Go to the artic circle and tell that to the polar bear that sees you as just another pink bag of flesh without horns or claws
taildragger
11-15-2007, 11:25
yes it does. at least 17.5% of the fiber used in the manufacturing process comes from well-managed forests, according to the rules of the FSC, and contains at least 30% recycled post-consumer waste paper.
What about the ink, are they printing with extra virgin whale oil?
camojack
11-15-2007, 11:31
What about the ink, are they printing with extra virgin whale oil?
That's one I never understood...what's extra virgin?
Someone enlighten me, seriously...
Alligator
11-15-2007, 12:21
Virgin olive oils
This oil is obtained only from the olive, the fruit of the olive tree, using solely mechanical or other physical means in conditions, particularly thermal conditions, which do not alter the oil in any way. It has not undergone any treatment other than washing, decanting, centrifuging and filtering. It excludes oils obtained by the use of solvents or re-esterification methods, and those mixed with oils from other sources. It can be qualified as a natural product, and virgin olive oil can have a designation of origin when it meets the specific characteristics associated with a particular region. Virgin olive oils can have the following designations and classifications depending on their organoleptic (taste and aroma) and analytic characteristics (the degree of acidity refers to the proportion of free fatty acids, not to the taste)
Extra Virgin olive oil
Virgin olive oil which has a free acidity, expressed as oleic acid, of not more than 0.8 grams per 100 grams (0.8%), and the other characteristics of
which correspond to those fixed for this category. Extra Virgin olive oil accounts for less than 10% of oil in many producing countries. Used on salads, added at the table to soups and stews and for dipping.
Virgin olive oil
Virgin olive oil which has a free acidity, expressed as oleic acid, of not more than 2 grams per 100 grams (2.0%) and the other characteristics of which correspond to those fixed for this category in this standard.
Ordinary Virgin Olive Oil
Virgin olive oil which has a free acidity, expressed as oleic acid, of not more than 3.3 grams per 100 grams and the other characteristics of which correspond to those fixed for this category in this standard. Ordinary oil may still be fine for frying or where flavor is not wanted or needed.
Lampante Virgin Olive oil
Virgin olive oil not fit for consumption as it is, designated lampante virgin olive oil, is virgin olive oil which has a free acidity, expressed as oleic acid, of more than 3.3 grams per 100 grams and/or the organoleptic characteristics and other characteristics of which correspond to those fixed for this category in this standard. It is intended for refining or for technical use.
RadioFreq
11-15-2007, 13:18
Mooning and extra virgin oil together in the same thread.
I find that mildly disturbing. :eek: :D
RadioFreq
11-15-2007, 13:22
Mooning and extra virgin oil together in the same thread.
I find that mildly disturbing. :eek: :D
Oh, wait I'm confusing threads this morning. :confused:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29673
Blue Jay
11-15-2007, 15:02
Go to the artic circle and tell that to the polar bear that sees you as just another pink bag of flesh without horns or claws
Now that is funny on many levels. A member of an invasive species, by any definituion of the word, telling someone to "talk" to a member of a soon to be extinct species. I know this will be a complete shock to you, Einstein, but you are a pink bag of flesh without horns or claws and not some kind of divine, above environmental, creature. Another level is the fact that I am "talking" to a creature that is even less likely to understand than that same polar bear.
taildragger
11-15-2007, 15:34
Now that is funny on many levels. A member of an invasive species, by any definituion of the word, telling someone to "talk" to a member of a soon to be extinct species. I know this will be a complete shock to you, Einstein, but you are a pink bag of flesh without horns or claws and not some kind of divine, above environmental, creature. Another level is the fact that I am "talking" to a creature that is even less likely to understand than that same polar bear.
Ummm, wow dude, *** is up with that response?
Quite frankly I don't see myself as a devine creature above the environment, and the whole pink bag of flesh w/o horns or claws is an observation about humans (think about it, to a predator we really aren't more than that).
And as to calling me Einstein, how ironic, as I am a physicist. I'm sorry if my intellect carries into my humor and doesn't allow you to understand some simple sarcasm. Maybe you should go work on your social skills.
Jog on tosser
taildragger
11-15-2007, 15:46
One other thing,
if anything we are an invasive culture, as a species we'd probably be alright. It's our culture and technology that allows us to exist in a way that is detrimental to the environment. Take out technology and culture and we go back to hunter gatherer style, more or less what we were made to do, and whats invasive about that?
Jim Adams
11-15-2007, 23:38
Humans are the only mammal that makes conscious decisions to endanger or destroy nature.
geek
Appalachian Tater
11-16-2007, 00:07
well we certainly have an impact on our environment which is often negative,
Our impact on the environment is always negative when judged from the viewpoint of almost every other living thing, plant or animal, on the planet. A few microbes, vermin, rodents and maybe domesticated animals kept as pets might benefit.
I'll take Mythology for $100, Alex.
Lone Wolf
11-16-2007, 05:17
what does job #10 entail? 7-10. is that am or pm?
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 05:29
what does job #10 entail? 7-10. is that am or pm?
Hopefully am. Clearing locusts from the frounds after dark can be tough.:D
Lone Wolf
11-16-2007, 05:30
what's a fround?
Would that be Neo-Republican Mythology?
A witty and fitting reference Tinker, in response to taildragger.
I still don't see what the big deal is with calling ourselves an invasive species.
Whether we consider ourselves part of Nature or not, we may still consider ourselves an invasive species when we act as an invasive species, however we wish to define it.
As for whether we are part of Nature or not, we are both, depending on the context in which we choose to use the term at the time. Like all words, 'Nature' is an abstract construct created by Man. That real thing which is Nature knows not that we are separate from it. It is only the word nature in our own way of thinking that separates us from it. There is nothing wrong with doing this, as long as it is useful to our purposes at the time. Sometimes it is useful and even neccessary to do so. Sometimes it is useful and even neccessary to not do so. We should be capable of more ironic understanding, and not allow ourselves to get caught up in the dogma that often accompanies the bridge from romantic to philosophic understanding. All generalizations ultimately fail, but they are still be useful.
For those interested in understanding more about understanding:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/190366.html
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 05:34
what's a fround?
Kind of like ground only the idiot that's been up all night missed the 'g'. Woops.:o
Lone Wolf
11-16-2007, 05:38
I'd just call in a napalm strike
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 05:45
I'd just call in a napalm strike
Man you sure hit the ground running this morning, huh?:p
Lone Wolf
11-16-2007, 05:46
smells like...victory
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 05:49
smells like...victory
You've bested me this time Lone Wolf. But I'll be back. Iiiii'll be baaaaack. . .ha ha hahahahahahahaha.
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 05:55
Crap. Nobody wants to play anymore. Guess I'll go to bed.
Job 12:7-10.
what does job #10 entail? 7-10. is that am or pm?
Job #10 isn't open. You bid for job #12 has been rejected due to applying for job #10. Job #10 is over paid, andj Job #12 is being outsourced to illegals to cut cost anyways.
Would that be Neo-Republican Mythology?
I'm guessing 17th century Mythology actually.
NICKTHEGREEK
11-16-2007, 07:47
What about the ink, are they printing with extra virgin whale oil?
What whales do on their time off is none of your business. That whale is someone's sister.
Kerosene
11-16-2007, 11:08
Humans are less like an invasive species than they are a virus. Think about it.
Uncle Silly
11-16-2007, 16:30
Humans are less like an invasive species than they are a virus. Think about it.
Thank you, Agent Smith. Have you found Mr. Anderson yet?
warraghiyagey
11-16-2007, 17:38
Thank you, Agent Smith. Have you found Mr. Anderson yet?
Find Neo. He is the One.
what's a fround?
Its just like a mater
oldfivetango
11-16-2007, 19:13
they need to stop printing Journeys. trees are intruded upon
Personally,I would be happy if everyone would stop sending
me junkmail.It becomes oppressive and is a waste of natural
resources,governemnt labor,and is an enviromental nightmare
to dispose of.
Will we ever hear a politician deplore it? Not likely.
Oldfivetango
seven catalogs today.
Only one worth spit.
Nightwalker
11-17-2007, 01:10
Its just like a mater
But without the Tow.
There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled 'Nature'". The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" -- but beavers and their dams are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver dam (erected by beavers for beavers' purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purposes of men) the "Naturist" reveals his hatred for his own race -- i.e., his own self-hatred.
-R.A. Heinlein
Well, I don't particularly like beaver dams or hate man made dams, but I love nature.
Personally,I would be happy if everyone would stop sending
me junkmail.It becomes oppressive and is a waste of natural
resources,governemnt labor,and is an enviromental nightmare
to dispose of.
Will we ever hear a politician deplore it? Not likely.
Oldfivetango
Just burn it in your stove, OFT. It's all BTUs-- and the cheapest available. Better yet, it comes to you free and unasked. Well some of the more expensive stuff is 50 percent clay. But it's dry and has no moisture to get rid off. So it's still fuel, albeit, a bit diminished from the real stuff.
Weary
Blue Jay
11-17-2007, 20:03
And as to calling me Einstein, how ironic, as I am a physicist.
Also an olympic gymnast, an astronaut and you drive a Masserati. That country song about being so much cooler online was written about you.
There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled 'Nature'". The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" -- but beavers and their dams are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver dam (erected by beavers for beavers' purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purposes of men) the "Naturist" reveals his hatred for his own race -- i.e., his own self-hatred.
-R.A. HeinleinSeems like the kind of guy who would see nothing but beauty in a field a purple loose strife.
Seems like the kind of guy who would see nothing but beauty in a field a purple loose strife.
I agree HUH?
taildragger
11-19-2007, 09:23
Also an olympic gymnast, an astronaut and you drive a Masserati. That country song about being so much cooler online was written about you.
Nope, just an Engr physicist. I drive an old dodge diesel, only thought about trying the astronaut route then decided that I would rather do engineering or physics, never had the passion to be a gymnast, I kept my tights for mountain biking and for wrestling.
But no, I don't consider myself to be cooler online, however I am starting to consider you an invasive poster:D
what does job #10 entail? 7-10. is that am or pm?
Psssssst. It's a secret code.;)
There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled 'Nature'". The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" -- but beavers and their dams are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver dam (erected by beavers for beavers' purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purposes of men) the "Naturist" reveals his hatred for his own race -- i.e., his own self-hatred.
-R.A. Heinlein
Thanks for the quote Bfitz. Now, should I ever find a book by Heinlein, I know not to waste a minute reading it. This guy is clearly a shallow thinker.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/asia/19dam.html?ex=1353214800&en=3d7390565d88aa6f&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
Thanks for the quote Bfitz. Now, should I ever find a book by Heinlein, I know not to waste a minute reading it. This guy is clearly a shallow thinker.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/asia/19dam.html?ex=1353214800&en=3d7390565d88aa6f&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalinkNice link.
I'm sure every person at NASA would disagree with you about Heinlein, not to mention his friend Isaac Asimov (who has published his own highly regarded works in every major subject division of the dewey decimal system in the library, nearly every person who has been in space and millions of others, but to each his own.
Blue Jay
11-20-2007, 14:48
Seems like the kind of guy who would see nothing but beauty in a field a purple loose strife.
That's all I see. They used to say it crowded out cat tails but that has been since disproved.
That's all I see. They used to say it crowded out cat tails but that has been since disproved.
Where did you hear that? Loosestrife does crowd out native plants including cattails. I have seen it first hand at the Bashakill off of the Long Path.
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/plants/loosstrf/potent.htm
I am certainly open to other viewpoints or studies showing otherwise.
A quick search on the subject revealed this (http://www.sgnis.org/publicat/wet19_1.htm) study...
A quick search on the subject revealed this (http://www.sgnis.org/publicat/wet19_1.htm) study...
Interesting. Thanks for the link Bfitz. I'd be curious to see other studies conducted where the growing season is longer.
Pennsylvania lists purple loosestrife as a noxious weed (http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/agriculture/cwp/view.asp?q=127683).
It's pretty, though. Evolution in action, I guess. Of course I don't mind if we try to eradicate it for our own selfish purposes. That's what our big brains are for anyway....
As you can see (http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/loosestrife.shtml), bfitz, it's not just Pennsylvania.
The more I read, the more I think a genetically engineered solution is what is needed to solve this problem.
The more I read, the more I think a genetically engineered solution is what is needed to solve this problem.
There is a beetle that eats the Loosestrife. It is being bred and released.
To me, removal of invasive species is about the most unselfish thing a person can do. It's hard work, and benefits native flora & fauna. I highly recommend it!
taildragger
11-20-2007, 16:28
There is a beetle that eats the Loosestrife. It is being bred and released.
To me, removal of invasive species is about the most unselfish thing a person can do. It's hard work, and benefits native flora & fauna. I highly recommend it!
Thats why a friend and I have waged wars against the cedars in Oklahoma, those are some nasty habitat destroying trees, and real buggahs to kill for good.
There is a beetle that eats the Loosestrife. It is being bred and released.
To me, removal of invasive species is about the most unselfish thing a person can do. It's hard work, and benefits native flora & fauna. I highly recommend it!Oh, I could argue that it's selfish, and you know, any and every human act can be viewed as selfish if you look at right. But thank god for human ingenuity!
Nightwalker
11-25-2007, 21:33
The more I read, the more I think a genetically engineered solution is what is needed to solve this problem.
Those have worked out pretty badly at times. Not just GE stuff, but things that people have brought in to try to fix something else.
Kudzu, fish in Crater Lake, stuff like that.