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Mom Lamb
12-02-2003, 17:04
I am wondering how a foldable, lighweight frame with wheels would work on the AT? Here's the problem:

I have fibromyalgia with rheumatoid arthritis, as well as lumbar and cervical disk bulges from a car accident. I can hike, but I can't carry a lot of weight. I am researching a thru-hike of the AT (Don't know when I'll be attempting it). I plan to hike ultra-light, as much as possible. I don't want to slack-pack. Llamas are out (I checked :D ). So...(please don't laugh) I'm thinking of having my husband design and build a frame with 2 wheels that I can affix my backpack and sleeping gear to and pull as I hike (kinda like a travois).

There must be areas where I can pull, but also areas where I'd have to shoulder my back pack, fold the frame and carry it. Maybe part of the apparatus can double as hiking poles? I'd need to make sure the wheels are the type that can bounce over roots and rocks...

What is the condition of the trail for pulling such a frame? I know it is very rough in some areas...

Peaks
12-02-2003, 17:23
Well, the bigger the wheel, the easier it's going to get over rock and roots.

If you want to experiment with something like that, make up a prototype and take it out on trails in a local state park or forest that has a trail system. See how you like it.

You might start out with the dolly that some people use to portage canoes with.

chris
12-02-2003, 19:25
Most (all?) wilderness areas have an injunction against mechanized travel. So, for example, no bikes or carts (even ungeared, simple Mormon carts). Certainly in places like the Smokys you won't be able legally to do so. While there are not too many officially designated (large) wilderness areas on the AT, there are enough to make life difficult. Now, I think the rule is a crock, as a horse (which is legal in many wilderness areas) is going to cause a lot more damage to the trail than a set-up like the one you are describing would. Note that a travois, I think, would be perfectly legal, as it isn't mechanical (just a frame of sticks). Of course, it would be a real pain to use for 2100+ miles. Although you say that llamas are not possible, they may be your best bet. You'd have to (probably) get them around the Smokys and the Baxter Nazis would (probably) pitch a fit, but who knows? If you want, I can put you in touch with a woman who has hiked the PCT with Llamas so you can get a first hand perspective.

Kerosene
12-02-2003, 19:32
As long as you can carry the whole thing for a mile or so over the rockiest areas, you might be able to make something with big wheels work. You'll want to keep it as narrow as possible to avoid having the wheels catch on plants and rocks along narrow trails. Regardless, you'll probably have to heft the thing over and around obstacles once every mile or so. If this works out, you may be the first thru-hiker to need a tire patch for your first aid kit! :)

Lilred
12-02-2003, 20:50
Most (all?) wilderness areas have an injunction against mechanized travel. So, for example, no bikes or carts (even ungeared, simple Mormon carts). Certainly in places like the Smokys you won't be able legally to do so.


I'm not so sure this is accurate. I doubt the Smokies could legally keep someone off the trail that is in a wheelchair, as hard as it would be to go over some trails in a wheelchair, I doubt the 'powers that be' could legally put a stop to it. Since the purpose of this wheeled pack is due to health reasons, I think, (and I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong), but I would think that the same legalities would apply. Any lawyers out there that know more about this?

smokymtnsteve
12-02-2003, 20:54
The AT is posted FOOT TRAVEL ONLY....

Mom Lamb
12-02-2003, 21:52
Thanks, Peaks, that’s a great idea; I think I will do that. Most of Florida’s trails are flat with few rocks and I need to know what the trail condition in the AT is like. I hear that there are a lot of rocks in the PA section, for instance. Chris and Smokymtsteve, I appreciate your input on the injunction against mechanized travel in the Smokies. I’ll do some checking into the legalities. I’d think a travois would do more damage to the trail and the plants beside it than wheels would, but…anyway yes, it would be due to my physical handicap and Steve, I would be traveling BY FOOT, just pulling my gear rather than carrying it. ;) As to llamas, they’re out. They would be more of a complication than a help, especially when going into town for re-supply. And the price to rent one is more than I want to spend. I’m trying to keep costs as low as possible. Thanks Kerosene. Hadn’t thought of tire patching. I was thinking of using something like 6 “ garden cart wheels—non inflated tires.

Thanks all of you. Any input is welcome. I'm sure there are things I haven't thought about.

Doctari
12-02-2003, 23:27
I kant see a legal problem, but I aint that versed on that stuff.

Might I suggest a one wheeled cart?

Reasons:
There are many places that the AT is fairly narrow, this would allow you to travel without (as much) worry about catching on things.
Ease of construction, a bicycle front fork & some sort of harness.
Smaller, takes up less space in tent or shelter or wherever.
Lighter, nuff said.

But: a single wheel isn't as stable, so you need to decide what is more important. I think that a single wheel with a 2 point hitch at your waist would be stable enough.


Some randome ideas / points:
A smaller wheel would be more stable,
A larger wheel would roll better & take bumps better.
If you can lower the center of gravity you may compensate for a larger wheel. Perhaps putting the bike fork on upside down would lower the center.
Or, , , hang the pack below the frame.
I wonder if a brake is dooable, for those long down hills.


I too have arthritus, so understand. Without trekking poles I can't hike.

Doctari.

PS: drop an e-mail & we can talk. I will put this in front of my sons, see if they can't come up with a few ideas.

Blue Jay
12-03-2003, 09:28
I truly think that it would be harder on your body to do it with wheels because you would have to carry it more often than not and it would add weight. On the other hand, people also told the Wright Brothers that you can't fly. Go for it.

chris
12-03-2003, 10:02
I'm not so sure this is accurate. I doubt the Smokies could legally keep someone off the trail that is in a wheelchair, as hard as it would be to go over some trails in a wheelchair, I doubt the 'powers that be' could legally put a stop to it. Since the purpose of this wheeled pack is due to health reasons, I think, (and I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong), but I would think that the same legalities would apply. Any lawyers out there that know more about this?

I did a little looking this morning into regulations concerning wheeled travel in wilderness areas. It appears that each regulatory body is allowed to make its own specific rules as long as they are in line with the Wilderness Act of 1964. Most of the sites (all forest service) say specifically that not wheeled devices, except wheelchairs, can be used in a wilderness area. Some do not include the wheelchair exception. All specifically ban carts.
Figuring that the BLM would have more relaxed rules, I looked a bit at some of their documents. They appear to ban, or are considering a ban (it isn't clear how current the document I was looking at was), everything, even wheelbarrows for trail maintenance. National Parks will have their own set of rules and I didn't take the time to dig at the Smokys regulations to find out their policy.

Now, as far as whether or not the wheelchair exception allows for wheeled or other mechanical devices to allow someone otherwise not able to use the land, I do not know. I suspect it would not. For example, should Christopher Reeves be allowed to drive a Land Cruiser across the AT on the Smokys, because he could not otherwise use the land? This is somewhat silly, as what Mom Lamb is proposing would have a minimal impact upon the land and Christopher Reeves certainly would. Whether or not you can get permission for a small, pulled cart, I'd still do it, Mom Lamb.

Pedestrian
12-03-2003, 10:40
I was up at Mountain Crossings (Neels Gap, GA) last weekend and Wes was showing me a backpack with wheels that someone had tried to use last season. The guy's idea was to pull it most of the way. It had taken a beating! The frame welds were broke. The wheels were torn up. The material was torn. All of this in 30 miles!

I would first look into ultralight equipment. It is possible to carry a sub 20 lbs. pack if you work at it. I don't know you condition so this may not be an option.

If you do decide to build something it had better be very rugged. I can not imagine dragging something up some of those hills. Some switchbacks are very tight turns that would cause your cart to track to the inside and get hung. Plus the material for the pack would have to be supper heavy duty to withstand constant abrasion. By the time you have built this thing strong enough to withstand the beating it will take it will be most likely too heavy for you to lift for any amount of distance.

Sorry, it’s just my opinion.

jlb2012
12-03-2003, 10:47
Might I suggest a one wheeled cart?

For a look at an existing product see: http://www.wheelpacker.com

Personally my take is that it would be against regs for it to be used in a wilderness area and the existing product looks to be too heavy to carry any distance. It might be manageable for two people but even then it strikes me as probably too difficult to use for some areas of the AT even if it were not against regs.

trailsnail
12-03-2003, 11:12
Have you thought about recruiting a strong hiking partner to carry some of the your load? If you both went with light weight gear it probably wouldn't be unreasonable...

firefly
12-03-2003, 12:07
Hi there..as some of the folks on this website know I was an experienced backpacker that led outdoor trips for 20 years. Then I got totalled by a drunk driver. It has taken me 6 years to get back on the trail again. I have permanent damage to alot of body parts including my back. The people on this website have given me some wonderful advice and thanks to them I have part of my life back. Here are some of my thoughts. If you want to design something to carry you gear find the rehab center in your area for people with spinal cord injuries. You would be amazed at the lightweight-custom designed gear that disabled people use now. It sounds like you want a single wheeled pullcart, people have used them to hike across continents...you would definitly need a pneumatic wheel..go to the people who use walker and wheelchairs to get around-they are wheel experts and most of them are gear freaks..they can give you some good advice and refer you to the local shop that has this stuff. My other thought is this...It may be easier to carry ultralite gear than to pull a load over the AT terraine, especially if you are hiking with a partner. But the most important thing you should try out is a Hammock. I have so much chronic pain it is very hard to sleep but I do not have this problem in a hammock. I would sleep in it at home if I could.

attroll
12-03-2003, 13:26
I looked at the Wheelpacker web site. It looks like a pretty neat idea. It would would work well on flat terian and the occasional rocks. But on the mountains that are steep and full of rocks I think it would be out of the question. But that is my opinion.

Rain Man
12-03-2003, 15:01
For a look at an existing product see: http://www.wheelpacker.com

I visited the site and sent an email asking him about the legalities of use in the GSMNP. I'll let you know what he says. Here's some stuff from the site in the meatime:

"The need for such an implement was clearly demonstrated to me one beautiful October afternoon in the Smokies. My wife and I were descending the Sweat Heifer Trail from the AT when we passed an obviously fit young man making the ascent with a large backpack on the way to the AT and a few days in the backcountry. About a mile further down we ran into his significant other and she was not happy. She was struggling under an equally large backpack and not enjoying the hike at all. I, like most hikers, have seen many backpackers on the trails and most of them didn’t look like they were having a lot of fun. These recollections and the overloaded woman caused me to do a lot of thinking out loud, much to the annoyment of my wife, all the way back to the car about "a better way" to transport gear."

"Apparently I was in the right place at the right time. We spend a lot of time in the backcountry and I have a 40 year career in mechanical design of farm and military equipment and spaceflight hardware...."

Also....

"Wheelpacker is NOT intended for bushwhacking or the exploration of unknown trails and it SHOULD NEVER be used on foot logs, cliffside trails or any other situation where a user's slip or fall could have consequences beyond the footing the user had at the time...."

TJ aka Teej
12-03-2003, 15:54
What an interesting thread! I'll end up mobility challenged eventually due to my spinal arthritis, and I've always wondered about things like this.
Someone has, by the way, wheeled something from Georgia to Maine a while back. Myron Avery pushed a measuring wheel from Oglethorpe to Katahdin. Hey MomLamb! Put a odometer on your wheeled-travois-thingy, and see if the ATC will sponser you :O)

Peaks
12-03-2003, 17:40
measuring wheels are still used. I saw Dave Field up on Saddleback using one when I went through. It's similar to a bicycle wheel and fork.

TJ aka Teej
12-03-2003, 18:46
measuring wheels are still used. I saw Dave Field up on Saddleback using one when I went through. It's similar to a bicycle wheel and fork.Here's a photo of Avery on Katahdin with his wheel.
www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/ _images/story/app3.gif

Uncle Wayne
12-04-2003, 08:46
Good Luck Mom Lamb. I have to believe it would difficult if not impossible to use it without carrying it down the north side of Blood Mountain, the most recent section I hiked and I'm sure there are much worse sections I haven't seen yet. I'm afraid it would be more of a burden than a help on most of the trail. But where there's a "wheel" there's a way, I guess! :D

Doctari
12-05-2003, 00:16
I looked at the web site with the pre made one, some impressions;

@ 25 Lbs + 25 Lbs pack wt. = 50 lbs. On flat ground, you would probably have a somewhat easier time of it. HOWEVER, the AT aint flat for most of it's length.
The site dosn't mention the amount of weight actually on the hips (knees, ankles, feet, etc) & I don't know enough math to figure it out, but I don't see a weight savings on the body being much more than the 25 Lbs stated for the cart.
If memory serves, the first Major obstical is Albert Mt, it is fairly steep with quite a few hands on climbs. Going up that hill pulling a 50Lb cart is not something I would like to do. And before that are a number of Hills/Mountains with fairly difficult sections (descent of N side of Blood, the north side of the hill South of Standing Indian Mt. etc.)
AND, I think I would be a bit nervous walking along the ridge line south of Clingmans Dome in the Smokies.
Might I second the idea that you try Ultra Light?
As posted here, I just got down to 20 Lbs pack wt. That is with a 4.5 Lb sleeping bag.
If you do decide to go to the cart, let me know, the offer to help with the design stands.
If you decide to go UL, I will try to help with that too
:sun

Doctari.

Peaks
12-05-2003, 10:53
Well, mom needs to figure out a lot of things.

Equipment wise, I suggest that you look at a pulk. For those who don't cross country ski, it's a sled that secures around your waist. I would consider that type of a harness to attach the "trailer" to your body. The Reliable Racing website probalby has pulks for sale.

As far as a trailer goes, you might look at the BOB trailer that long distance cyclists use. The Performance Bicycle website probably has them for sale, as does REI. If you wanted a two wheel trailer, then consider they type for youngsters.

Now, combine the harness portion with the BOB trailer, and you have a piece of gear that you can use.

If you are in Florida, you need a place to try it out. Not many rocky trails in Florida. So, I suggest finding a rock breakwater at some harbor and try it out there.

Mom Lamb
12-10-2003, 22:25
First of all, I’d like to say, thanks to everyone for your responses: Thank you -- all of you—I am overwhelmed and SO appreciative of your helpful comments and encouragement. My reply is an attempt to answer you all—I’m so sorry this is such a long post.

The cart:

Thanks, HOI, for the website (http://www.wheelpacker.com). I took a peek at the cart they had, but it looks too heavy and awkward to use. I can’t imagine taking that thing on mountain trails. It’s much larger than the one I had envisioned. I was imagining a lightweight sulky-style cart, with the pack carried low between the wheels.

Doctari, thanks for your offer to help with the designs. Your suggestion about a one-wheeled cart is an interesting one---maybe a lightweight wheel with a V-frame (maybe hiking poles could double as the frame?) that I could push or pull. Downhill, it could go in front and gravity could assist the descent. Hopefully not too quickly—heh! :D That way, when I need to carry the thing over rocks or steep spots, I could use the poles and just have the wheel strapped to the outside of my pack.

TJ, using a measuring wheel would be interesting, and would probably work for the purpose I have in mind. I could lash my pack to the V-frame. Is the ATC interested in having the trail measured again? I would think they’d have already done so. I’d be interested in finding out how many extra miles I’d walked to get to re-supply towns, etc. Problem is, there would be now way to use it in the rocky, steep areas. I wonder if I would I have to switch to a pedodometer at those times. I tried the link you posted to see Avery’s wheel, but it had been discontinued. I did, however, find it at: http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/archives/arch_story/090602.htm

Peaks, I wasn’t able to find a pic of a pulk at the Reliable Racing website, but I did manage to find one at: http://www.ski-paddle.com/skitrack/pulk.htm. The hip belt is good, either that, or some kind of vest or shoulder harness that crosses in front of my chest to distribute the force of the pulled weight more evenly. The BOB trailer (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/SearchResults.cfm) is too awkward, in my opinion, to get around sharp corners or navigate rocky trails.

The legalities:

I wasn’t aware of the injunctions against wheels on the trails. Thanks Chris, for looking into regulations concerning wheeled travel in wilderness areas. That’s valuable information for me to know and I had no idea where to begin. The injunction against wheels certainly throws a wrench in the plan. I could write to the various parks and request permission, then ship the wheel around the parts that won’t allow it, but it sounds like it would be more of a legal hassle than I want to take on.

The trail:

From what you’re all saying about the trail, it sounds as if there are quite a few spots where I’d have to carry the apparatus along with my pack. Hmm…maybe using wheels isn't such a good idea after all.... Thanks for filling me in on trail conditions

Going Ultralight:

Firefly, I definitely plan to go Ultralight!! Why haul/carry weight I don’t need to? I’m small-- 4’ 11”, in addition to having fibro and arthritis, so I can’t haul lots of weight. I also plan to take my 15-year-old daughter, who by-the-way, is recovering from Autism, along with me, so we’d split the gear between us. She’s strong, but her bones are still growing, and I don’t want to put a heavy pack on her either. The afore-mentioned 25lbs per pack is much heavier than I’d thought of carrying. I’d like to keep the packs as near 10 lbs apiece total if I can.

As for a hammock, that’s a thought. My main question would be how do you use a tent if you’re using a hammock? :confused: I have no desire to get soaked in the rain or eaten by mosquitoes while using a tarp. I’ll have to read the Hammock threads on this forum and see what they say. :-?

I’d love to get a hiking partner to accompany us, or link up with a small group --my husband just can’t take the time off work and none of my other male relatives are interested in undertaking this endeavor. I’m leery of going, 2 females alone, into strange towns and hiking remote county roads with no protection.

Anyway, thanks again, everyone for your kind help.

chris
12-11-2003, 12:29
I hesitate to do this, but I think it might be worthwhile. You might take a look at Warren Doyle's Circle Expeditions. From what I've heard of them, you would get a much different AT experience than the average hiker, but you would be slackpacking the entire way (or atleast more of the way). I hesitated to bring it up because it is something I would never do, but you might find acceptable.

You may be able to get exceptions from the large wilderness areas for a wheeled cart. I think the key would be to get them to accept the cart under the wheelchair exception, if they have one. I wouldn't worry about the smaller wilderness areas, as you will be in and out of them quickly. There are certainly several places in the Smokys where you'd have to carry the cart around a few obstacles.

If you are going to carry your stuff in a pack, you'll need to really go ultralight. Take a look at www.backpackinglight.com for a 3 seasons ultralight list that comes in a 7.5 lbs for baseweight. The main weight issue will be food, although your smaller size will allow you to carry less. If you resupply frequently and are capable of averaging higher miles, you should be able to get away with carrying less than 7.5 lbs of food per stretch (1.5 lbs of food over 5 days, 20 miles a day gives you a 100 mile range). However, most resupply stretches are relatively short so you could drop the food weight. You don't have to carry more than a liter of water at a time, which adds about 2 lbs. This set up, though, would require some serious weight shedding and longer days, which means you need to get experience with the gear well before you set out and have to do some conditioning before hand: Trying to start with 20 mile days in Georgia will simply get you hurt if you are not already in some sort of shape.

Peaks
12-13-2003, 13:58
I would suggest that anyone contemplating a thru-hike talk with people such as Warren. They all have lots of good insites and experiences. However, his Circle Expeditions are generally too fast pace for most. I believe they complete the trail in about 100 days, while the average thru-hike lasts 160 days or so.

Robbert
05-02-2004, 10:33
A dutch way to carry loads upto 20 pounds on wheels instead of on your back:

http://www.radicaldesign.nl/images/cyclone/who.jpg
http://www.radicaldesign.nl/images/cyclone/wheelie.jpg

Mom Lamb
05-03-2004, 03:20
Yes!!! Thanks Robert, this is exactly what I was envisioning--something like a travois with wheels. Does anyone who has hiked the AT know:

1) Would something like this would be allowed on the trail?

2) Would something like this be feasable on the rocky parts?

This looks perfect to me.

d'shadow
05-03-2004, 03:22
Just to put in my two cents worth of advice...Spiritwind mentioned in a previous thread that speed hikers used a good support team, so they did not have to carry so much weight, thus allowing them to cover more miles...is it possible that you could arrange something similar to this idea? :-? That way you could lighten your load and still cover the entire AT in one season...I was totaled in a car wreak sometime ago, and know how hard it is to recover. I'm so proud of you! :clap

lilrod69
01-20-2008, 14:57
Does anybody remember a wheeled backpack, I believe was called "The Mule"?
Had various accessories, including a large water container, two pack aareas, and an insulated "cooler".
With it you could double your load - was used to cross the south-west desert areas.

JAK
01-20-2008, 15:16
Rules aside, I am not sure a cart would help for light loads in hilly terrain. You would be better to focus on making your total weight as light as possible. The other thing is that as I understand that you would want to rest more when the inflamations occur, and exercise more when they don't. So you would want a more flexible schedule, and be prepared to take more time when you need it.

In flatter terrain however, such as old rail beds, I think a cart would work well but really only for heavy loads. The rougher the surface the larger diameter wheels, which tends towards more payload needed to justify the cart. For very light payloads on very flat and smooth surfaces a bike or trike makes more and more sense, even if your not in a hurry.

take-a-knee
01-20-2008, 15:19
I am wondering how a foldable, lighweight frame with wheels would work on the AT? Here's the problem:

I have fibromyalgia with rheumatoid arthritis, as well as lumbar and cervical disk bulges from a car accident. I can hike, but I can't carry a lot of weight. I am researching a thru-hike of the AT (Don't know when I'll be attempting it). I plan to hike ultra-light, as much as possible. I don't want to slack-pack. Llamas are out (I checked :D ). So...(please don't laugh) I'm thinking of having my husband design and build a frame with 2 wheels that I can affix my backpack and sleeping gear to and pull as I hike (kinda like a travois).

There must be areas where I can pull, but also areas where I'd have to shoulder my back pack, fold the frame and carry it. Maybe part of the apparatus can double as hiking poles? I'd need to make sure the wheels are the type that can bounce over roots and rocks...

What is the condition of the trail for pulling such a frame? I know it is very rough in some areas...

The problem you'd have, in addition to those already noted, would be getting that contraption downhill...after you got it uphill. As for the wilderness prohibition against wheels, if you are willing to file a lawsuit, the Americans with Disabilities Act could provide the legal ammo you need. I'd go with the llama myself.

JAK
01-20-2008, 15:36
In theory a pair of pack dogs might be a legal option if you keep the load reasonable.
I am not sure what breed of dog would be most llama like. I'm thinking something long legged, but not to fat or furry, but not in too much of a hurry either. I would avoid labs because of their hip problems, but roughly that size and disposition. Ten pounds each, plus their own food. Of course you would have to give them a good home and proper care and training before and after. Children are another option. Similar issues. :)

scavenger
01-20-2008, 16:03
Once a dog is packed up with food and water for him/herself they arent gonna be able to carry all your personal gear too, maybe a bit but certainly not all...

The wheeled pack seems like it would be too much of a pain-in-the-ass in rocky steep areas and around sticks and logs and fallen trees.

I think your best bet would be researching super-ultralite hiking, buying or making the lightest gear you can, and getting your pack weight as low as possible. Finding a hiking partner strong enough to carry gear you cant manage would also be a substantial help.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

4eyedbuzzard
01-20-2008, 16:10
The problem you'd have, in addition to those already noted, would be getting that contraption downhill...after you got it uphill. As for the wilderness prohibition against wheels, if you are willing to file a lawsuit, the Americans with Disabilities Act could provide the legal ammo you need. I'd go with the llama myself.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Wheelchair+accessibility+in+wilderness+areas:+the+ nexus+between+the...-a018074544

I'm not positive, but I don't believe the various prohibitions(federal and state) against wheeled vehicles applies to wheelchairs utilized by a disabled person (just as service aninals are exempt from dog prohibitions) - only against vehicles such as bicycles, motorcycles, atvs, etc. Plus the wheeled cart in this case falls more under a device used by someone with a disability for the purpose of mobility, not just a cart for convenience sake, and it's not a vehicle per se in that it's not used to transport a person. And while there is no manadate to make the entire AT wheelchair accessible, neither are disabled people in wheelchairs expressly prohibited.

Of course, the reality is pulling that thing is probably going to be a worse PIA than carrying it most of the time.

berninbush
01-20-2008, 18:09
Did anyone notice that the original post was from 2003, and this thread only got revived today after three and a half years of silence? ;)

I'd be interested to know if the original poster ever made it, and what she ended up doing.

take-a-knee
01-20-2008, 19:00
Maybe this would work, might be a budget buster though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkBEDy3eA1o&feature=related

spittinpigeon
01-20-2008, 19:02
Do the PCT instead. The wheels would work better, and you could bring a pack animal.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-20-2008, 19:19
Did anyone notice that the original post was from 2003, and this thread only got revived today after three and a half years of silence? ;)

I'd be interested to know if the original poster ever made it, and what she ended up doing.Since the last time she logged in was May of 2004, we may never know.

Wolf - 23000
01-20-2008, 20:53
Mom Lamb,


First of all, I think it is great that you have not given up at pursuing your dreams. When I hike the A.T. it truly changed my life. I wish you truly good luck. I’m not sure a wheel pack would work as well as you would like it. The AT can be narrow in several areas and if it ever went off drift off trail for whatever reason, it could cause you a lot of problems.


I backpack well let just say very light weight. If you were able to carry a pack, how much weight do you think you would be able to carry?


Wolf

berninbush
01-20-2008, 20:58
:rolleyes: It amuses me how few people apparently bother to read the posts before theirs or even look at the dates. Mom Lamb probably either decided not to go, or completed her hike long ago. If so, hope she had a good one.

For anyone else in a similar situation... I wonder if you could have a single wheel, attached to your waist with two hiking poles, and suspend the pack from the poles? Then you could take the thing apart, strap the wheel to the pack, and use the poles to help you, on rough bits of trail. It sounds like that's sort of what she had in mind.

10-K
01-25-2008, 07:12
If your husband can build this then he probably knows that 1 large centered wheel with the cargo area placed in front of the wheel is a much more efficient design than a cart with 2 wheels.

Just thought I'd put that out there....

Thomas

Tipi Walter
01-25-2008, 10:22
Has anyone mentioned George Meegan? He walked 19,000 miles in 7 years using a wheeled cart, from Alaska to Argentina.

http://www.amazon.com/Longest-Walk-Odyssey-Human-Spirit/dp/039608723X

http://georgemeegan.com/adventure-map.html

Jason of the Woods
01-25-2008, 10:31
I have two ruptured discs in my back and have been disabled for some time because of the pain. I have gotten my Osprey 70 down to 27lbs. I could probably go lighter if I needed to. That would be my suggestion.;)

BOWSINGER
01-25-2008, 12:25
The world is full of wheeled devices that will work on trails. Many of them are lighter and cheaper and I suspect tougher that what I have see on this thread. they are called game carts.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-25-2008, 12:59
The lightest game cart I could find was 22 lbs and had two wheels - I would think an aluminum or fiberglass frame with a single 'fat' wheel would work better for a hiker - perhaps using bags similar to those used on luxury light packs.

jay590
01-31-2008, 04:21
wat about this? http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Pack%20Accessories/Carrix%20Trolley/Owner%20Review%20by%20Andrew%20Priest/

minnesotasmith
01-31-2008, 04:37
Especially on the ideas of someone who A) is thinking creatively, and B) wants to overcome obstacles most of us don't face in order to thruhike the AT.

However, after having done a thruhike (finishing up just 14 months ago), I think that anything wheeled will overall be a poor idea. Too much of the AT is not amenable to that, and you'll just end up carrying the extra weight of the wheels, frame, etc.

Much better IMO would simply to backpack conventionally, just going extreme UL. That means gauging weather/time of year more carefully than most thrus do (you don't want to be forced by winter conditions to have to carry major winter clothing), but better than not doing it.

Good luck to you.

Frau
01-31-2008, 07:23
I don't know whether anyone has suggested checking out hunters' carts, designed for hauling game out of the woods, OR a bicycle pull cart.

I admire your determination.

Frau

Frau
01-31-2008, 07:57
:o

Read all the posts, after I responded (she says with red face). Shame on me for not having done that.

BUT, there do seem to be others interested in this subject, AND I just learned about the book by George Meegan.:sun

Frau

shelterbuilder
01-31-2008, 20:50
Wheels just won't work on many sections of the AT. An extreme UL solution has the best chance of success - any kind of contraption is just going to have to be carried over the nasty spots, and the energy that you might save in the wheeling is going to be wasted in the carrying.

If I could offer a possible refinement to this discussion - when my Mom was living, she wanted to go with me on some shorter trips, just to see what it was that occupied SO MUCH of my thoughts. She had some spinal problems from some car accidents, and needed to keep her center of gravity (and her load) as low as possible, so I made her a special fanny pack - a monster of a thing by comparision to "normal" fanny packs. With this pack, she was able to carry everything that she needed to hike with me and NOT aggravate her back problems. Yes, I was carrying most of the equipment on these trips, but in later years, I've used the fanny pack myself for weekend trips when I wanted to go UL.

Frankly, by using an alcy stove and some of today's other lightweight gear (tarp, hammock, etc.), this COULD be a promising solution.

jesse
01-31-2008, 21:45
I would think it would kill your back. Going up uneven rocky ground would cause your back to twist, and you would constantly be pulling in awkward positions. coming down would not be easy either.

Footslogger
01-31-2008, 22:16
I am wondering how a foldable, lighweight frame with wheels would work on the AT? Here's the problem:

I have fibromyalgia with rheumatoid arthritis, as well as lumbar and cervical disk bulges from a car accident. I can hike, but I can't carry a lot of weight. I am researching a thru-hike of the AT (Don't know when I'll be attempting it). I plan to hike ultra-light, as much as possible. I don't want to slack-pack. Llamas are out (I checked :D ). So...(please don't laugh) I'm thinking of having my husband design and build a frame with 2 wheels that I can affix my backpack and sleeping gear to and pull as I hike (kinda like a travois).

There must be areas where I can pull, but also areas where I'd have to shoulder my back pack, fold the frame and carry it. Maybe part of the apparatus can double as hiking poles? I'd need to make sure the wheels are the type that can bounce over roots and rocks...

What is the condition of the trail for pulling such a frame? I know it is very rough in some areas...

===================================

Biggest problem would be the steep vertical (up or down) spots. Wheels really wouldn't be much of an asset on those ascents/descents. But as others have said ...on the reasonably smooter areas the larger the wheels the better.

'Slogger

budforester
01-31-2008, 22:55
Interesting discussion; the llama was my first idea. Maybe a real wheelchair could be a legal wheeled device. I borrowed a wheelchair for my own short- term need; it was heavy, but would squish together into a narrow package for car transport and would handily haul stuff around home and the workplace. There are probably ultra- light versions now. Besides, think how nice a camp- chair would be.

TwoForty
01-31-2008, 23:10
Two words....pack goat

budforester
01-31-2008, 23:16
Two words....pack goat


Oh, yeah sounds good... make a great barbecue at trail's end.

CaseyB
02-01-2008, 00:07
1) fully aware of the age of the thread
2) that crap won't work. you would end up picking up this rig too often. if you are worried about your back (lumbar discs) buy a pack built for heavy loads and put all the (light) load on your hips.

take-a-knee
02-01-2008, 08:40
I would think it would kill your back. Going up uneven rocky ground would cause your back to twist, and you would constantly be pulling in awkward positions. coming down would not be easy either.

Exactly, it takes a LOT of core (spinal) strength to push/drag a cart.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-01-2008, 08:45
Interesting discussion; the llama was my first idea. Maybe a real wheelchair could be a legal wheeled device. I borrowed a wheelchair for my own short- term need; it was heavy, but would squish together into a narrow package for car transport and would handily haul stuff around home and the workplace. There are probably ultra- light versions now. Besides, think how nice a camp- chair would be.Wheelchair wheels can't take it - the grit from the trail gets into the bearings and you have to have them repacked - the voice of experience :(.

ScottP
02-02-2008, 13:48
alpacas!

rafe
02-02-2008, 14:17
Wheelchair wheels can't take it - the grit from the trail gets into the bearings and you have to have them repacked - the voice of experience :(.

There are a few wheelchair-accessible AT sections up here in New England. That long boardwalk near Vernon, NJ comes to mind, and another one near Falls Village, CT, along the Hoosatonic. I think there's a new one near Killington/Pico (it was written up in AT Journeys magazine some time last year.)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-02-2008, 14:24
There are a few wheelchair-accessible AT sections up here in New England. That long boardwalk near Vernon, NJ comes to mind, and another one near Falls Village, CT, along the Hoosatonic. I think there's a new one near Killington/Pico (it was written up in AT Journeys magazine some time last year.)Wheelchairs are fine on boardwalks and in small gravel with hardpack underneath. However, the bearings can't handle normal trail surfaces and the rider gets jousted pretty good in the process of going down a normal trail (a concern if you are bruised up or healing from fractures)

Hana_Hanger
02-24-2008, 06:57
Legal or Not Legal
Old Thread or New
Bad Back or Hurting Knees

These photos are fantastic
wow:p
http://www.carrix.ch/harcarre.html

WalkingStick75
02-24-2008, 07:25
I went and looked at the wheelpacker site, I can't see how this would work on steap up or downhill, tight spots, log bridges or any other number of situations. Now if your into desert hiking this might be the ticket.

I also think no matter what the design of the device you will spend more energy pulling or being run over by it.

Keep your pack weight low 20-25 pounds is the better bet.

kayak karl
02-24-2008, 10:21
I went and looked at the wheelpacker site, I can't see how this would work on steap up or downhill, tight spots, log bridges or any other number of situations. Now if your into desert hiking this might be the ticket.

I also think no matter what the design of the device you will spend more energy pulling or being run over by it.

Keep your pack weight low 20-25 pounds is the better bet.
i agree. it will want to push u down the hill or pull u on to your rearend going up. and i think it will pull u 2 the bottom of the hill:). Mom Lamb, what is the problem with a pack? is it the shoulder weight, hip weight, weight in general? i spent 4 years altering eguipment and machines for the handicap. with a lower back brace, aluminum frame from back to front over shoulders and weight on front and back you could get all weight off upper body. a strap around upper chest would allow the pack to twist and move with body for balance. just an idea:)

hopefulhiker
02-24-2008, 10:25
The trail is to rough even to drag something in a lot of places.. I would look into slackpacking..

LIhikers
02-28-2008, 10:48
Legal or Not Legal
Old Thread or New
Bad Back or Hurting Knees

These photos are fantastic
wow:p
http://www.carrix.ch/harcarre.html

That's kind of a 3 season substitute for a pulk. Interesting idea for sure.

minnesotasmith
02-28-2008, 13:22
If anyone who has hiked at least 4 states of the AT in their entirety thinks that a wheeled pack would be any better than a misguided idea that would be abandoned in the first 30 miles. Anyone?