View Full Version : stove help?
MadAussieInLondon
12-03-2003, 11:21
i think you need to use both before deciding to switch stoves.
i have an old brasslite, i love it. i never liked my MSR international 600 much. i dont like the complexities of it. my brasslite has no moving parts. pour in some alcohol. ignight. done.
it also depends on your meals. do you cook up a stew and simmer for ages and ages? or do you just do noodles? boil in the bag meals etc?
all these will dictate what kind of stove you use.
I do not know if this will help and many may disagree. But after tring at least 5 home made/esbit/light weight stoves I always have come back to my MSR whisperlight. And I think the reason is the amount of water I heat. I will boil 3 quarts at least per night for dinner, cup-a-soup, when cold a hot drink and to bath off with. These other stoves IMO just are not made for this much water. The amount is one thing the other is being apart of the NOW generation I want my water hot now and these other stove, for the most part, are much much slower at getting water hot.
Every thing in your pack is a trade off. You just have to decide what is worth trading.
When I did my Springer->Damascus section hike, I carried a MSR Whisperlite (preshaker jet, maybe first production run) with a 22 oz. fuel bottle. I cooked once a day (in the evening) with it and was able to get fuel refills in Hot Springs and Erwin. With the exception of one winter trip, I've never used it since. There are a couple of reasons. The first is weight. My stove weighs in at 11.1 oz. The fuel bottle at 8 oz. The repair kit at 4.2 oz. That is a total of 23.3 oz for my stove set up. My stove, being old, needed to be maintained frequently, so the repair kit really was necessary. This was the second reason why I stopped using it: Every couple of days I had to take it apart and fix something on it, usually related to the fuel line and/or O-rings. The third reason why I stopped using it was fuel availability. While I had no problems on the AT, I anticipated problems on the PCT.
I switch to an alcohol stove in September 2002. After several failures with double wall (pepsi can type) stoves and the Cat stove (I was drunk when I built it), I just lopped off the bottom 1-2 inches of a beer car, put a little fiber glass insulation in it, and called it good. It works about as well as other stoves I've seen. I took a coffee can and cut it up to make a pot stand. The weight for the stove and potstand is 1.5 oz and a 20 oz. plastic soda bottle (for fuel) adds another 1.5 oz. So, I have a total weight of 3 oz, as opposed to 23.3 oz. While 20 oz. is not a huge savings by itself, when combined with other gear changes, it really adds up. The alcohol stove requires no maintenance and will only break if you step on it. I took it out on the PCT and had no problems getting fuel. Methyl alcohol (usually in the form of gasline antifreeze, like HEET) is available at most stores or gas stations. I found some denatured alcohol, but where I did there was also usually white gas for sale.
I simply can not imagine using the Whisperlite, or other white gas stove, for a long hike. The weight savings are good, alcohol stoves don't break, and fuel is fairly plentiful. The downsides are low heat output: They are good for boiling water and cooking for a few minutes. So, they work well for ramen, mac and cheese, liptons, pasta, couscous, etc. If you want to cook up something that requires you to cook it for 20 minutes, you'll want something else. If you have to boil snow, you'll be waiting a while and using a lot of fuel.
For my criteria of weight, reliability, and fuel availability, alcohol stoves are hard to beat. If you are unsure if one would be good for you, just build something like what I descibed above: It is mostly free afterall. Test it out in your kitchen to convince yourself that you can boil water with it. Then, take it on a short, overnight trip. If you are still not convinced, then at least you haven't spent a lot money on something you don't like.
I agree with most of what Chris said except the part about testing it in the kitchen - first test of any alcohol stove should always be outside in an area away from burnable things like buildings. Once the initial test has been done and one is comfortable with refueling without spills then it _can_ be used indoors but I would still _recommend_ using it outdoors for safety.
The first time I tested my stove, I rather scorched my wooden cutting board. Since then, I haven't had any problems, but generally test stove designs on top of an upside down cast iron pot. The cast iron pot, by the way, is also my cook pot for long distance hikes.
Blue Jay
12-03-2003, 12:13
I've also switched from gas to alcohol. I still use gas for the winter. The only drawback I see is longer heat time and you can't see the flame. I met several thrus last year who had their eyebrows grow back.
The first time I tested my stove, I rather scorched my wooden cutting board. Since then, I haven't had any problems, but generally test stove designs on top of an upside down cast iron pot. The cast iron pot, by the way, is also my cook pot for long distance hikes.
Chris, do you really carry a cast iron pot on long distance hikes? How much does that weigh?
Ok, you caught me in a fib. I only carry the cast iron pot on short hikes, like 40 miles or so. It is a featherlight design, at only 13 lbs, and I can use the lid as a frying pan for my bacon and eggs in the morning. Sure, it overloads my 19 oz. pack, but people think I'm really tough when they see me staggering down the trail with it.
Rain Man
12-03-2003, 14:35
... The cast iron pot, by the way, is also my cook pot for long distance hikes.
And if you duct tape the lid down real good, it doubles as a big water bottle!!!
;)
I'm a convert also to the home made alcohol stove. However, I haven't thrown away my whisperlite (I did pitch the Svea after all the gaskets dried out and I had flames shooting out all over the place).
Alcohol works fine for 1 person, typically heating 2 cups of water, in warm weather. Any exception to this, like more water, or with someone else, or in cooler weather, and I use the whisperlite.
Like all gear, I vary the gear depending on where I am going, when I am going, and who I am going with.
chowhound
12-04-2003, 00:41
I use a Trangia 27 and while it is a little on the heavy side the base, windscreen, burner, soda bottle for fuel, and 1 liter pot still weigh less than almost all white gas stoves that I have seen if you include the pot. In exchange for carrying extra weight you get an extremely stable stove that will operate in virtually any weather. Last month at the Siler's Bald shelter in the Smokies it was so windy that other people staying there could not use their pocket rocket even with the lightweight windscreen that they had. I fired up the Trangia fully exposed to the wind and the only problem I had was that it was a little less efficient than normal. The Trangia also simmers well, and will hold enough alcohol to allow you to do some real cooking if you want. That being said, if I'm going out alone, I don't expect really bad weather, and only want to boil water I'll carry a cheap 3/4 cup pot and a home made soda can stove.
stranger
12-04-2003, 05:44
If you are using a MSR and like it there is no reason to change to something else considering every gain will also come with a drawback. I have used many different stoves in my day...MSR Whisperlite, Rapidfire, Superfly and XGK, Peak 1 Feather 442 and Apex, Svea 123R, Primus Multifuel and Varifuel, Esbit, Home made and trangia alcohol, even a zip stove...there are pros and cons to everything.
But along the AT you are usually dealing with decent weather at low altitudes, so you can use pretty much anything. I like the alcohol stoves, I personally use a very well made Pepsi can stove that a buddy of mine makes and have had no problems with it. The only drawback I see is the lack of simmering, but you can counter that by letting your pot sit for about 10-15 minutes after it boils for a few min, then squirt another tiny amount of fuel back in to re-heat it.
Alot of people are into the home-made stove thing these days, but that doesn't mean other things don't work very well. Considering the simplicity of Esbit and Alcohol stoves...you kinda have to wonder why people are still using complicated white gas stoves that require maintainence on route???
Home-made Alcohol Stove = Easy, Fool Proof, Light, Cheap to run, Fail Proof and FREE. That's kinda tough to beat ya know?
What I do for "simmering" is to use a cozy - no need to rewarm. Actually I use the cozy for all the cooking - just boil water in the pot and then pour the water over the food in a ziplock bag in the cozy, zip up the bag, put the top on the cozy and let it sit for 20 minutes while doing other stuff. Eat straight out of the bag in the cozy - keeps the food warm for a long time. I like this approach due to the very minimal cleanup - lick the spoon and toss the bag in with the rest of the trash.
Youngblood
12-04-2003, 09:50
What I do for "simmering" is to use a cozy - no need to rewarm. Actually I use the cozy for all the cooking - just boil water in the pot and then pour the water over the food in a ziplock bag in the cozy, zip up the bag, put the top on the cozy and let it sit for 20 minutes while doing other stuff. Eat straight out of the bag in the cozy - keeps the food warm for a long time. I like this approach due to the very minimal cleanup - lick the spoon and toss the bag in with the rest of the trash.
HOI,
What all can you cook that way? Liptons Rice? Liptons Noodles? Ramans?
Youngblood
I have used all kinds of stoves and I really think the msr simmer lite stove has to be considered. I unlike many like to cook fast and be able to really cook not just heat up water. The msr simmerlite is msrs newest stove and thou it costs 90 bucks it is worht it. It simmers much better then the whisperlite and is alot lighter as well. If you don't have the funds to buy one to try ,see if a friend has one and try his. I agree with profile on this issue and I know he uses the whisperlite. I wonder profile have you tried simmerlite yet? By the way profile I think I met you in 00 thru hike. I met you a few times as well alpine but i could not keep up with you. Alpine forget about the home made deals. You can't cook proper meals with them unless you want to spend loads of time with them.
Hi,
During my 2001 thru I started with a Wisperlight. It worked fine and had no problem obtaining fuel. When I got to Damaskas, and thought seriously about being able to finish, I started to reduce weight. At that point I switched to a alcohol can stove. I was able to drop close to two pounds of pack weight. Using a stove made from a regular soda can I needed to have a pot support. I later changed to a stove made from a Fosters beer can and was able to eliminate the pot support. I used this set up from Duncannon on. It worked well with no problems.
Grampie-N->2001
MadAussieInLondon
12-04-2003, 12:57
who make fosters in america? in britain it tastes 100% different to fosters in australia. (its nicer in britain, aussie fosters is yuk, but i dont like beer at all anyway! whisky mmmmmmmmmm... )