View Full Version : What's up with Practical Backpacker?
Passionphish
11-18-2007, 14:04
I keep trying to read their forums. But every post is edited to the first few lines. Then it offers for a "click here to become a free member". So *click*. "Sorry, we are not taking new members at this time". What's the deal?
If you ask me, that website has always been a bit weird and wouldn't allow links from WB.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-18-2007, 14:39
Passionphish, take a look at this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14363)and I think you'll understand what is going on over there. Sad. It could have been a great general hiking forum with the right leadership.
Passionphish, take a look at this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14363)and I think you'll understand what is going on over there. Sad. It could have been a great general hiking forum with the right leadership.
They're still doing that! That guy must be a flake!
Jarhead16
11-18-2007, 16:12
it's all a bit weird to me. Don't understand it at all!
RITBlake
11-18-2007, 19:48
whiteblaze is hands down the best backpacking forum out there. So many knowledgable folks in our group I wouldn't go anywhere else.
Dirtygaiters
11-18-2007, 20:21
Passionphish, I don't know what's going on with the "we are not taking members" message. It seems people are joining PBF all the time. They might have something against @yahoo or @gmail free accounts, I don't know...
About the forum... in what I've noticed, the posters at PBF are almost all quite experienced backpackers, perhaps some are UL newbies, but almost always they have years of backpacking experience, thoughtful opinions, and a willingness to hear opinions that differ from their own. Also, PBF has a podcast which is often very interesting. One thing that's always bugged me about Whiteblaze, aside from the hundreds of daily off topic posts and the over-categorization of forums, is that there's a complete heirarchy here which contains hiking newbies (people who literally claim to have never gone backpacking before but are nevertheless currently planning an ultra light AT thru hike), then you have the average posters, and then you have an elite group of people who identify themselves by their immense post count and the list of their thru-hikes and the years they completed them which is displayed next to their post counts. Don't get me wrong, Whiteblaze is a wonderful forum, but things start to break down when the average posters start deferring to the elite posters without questioning and when the hiking newbies start to doll out advice that's been told them by the average posters without really knowing what they're talking about.
Don't get me wrong, I love Whiteblaze for a lot of reasons, but PBF just has a different atmosphere. It's like going from a large backpackers convention where so much is going on that it's hard to hear what the guy next to you is saying, to a friendly, private club that meets in a medium-sized conference room set up with long tables and chairs in a circle around the perimeter so everybody can see everybody else.
Skidsteer
11-18-2007, 20:35
Passionphish, I don't know what's going on with the "we are not taking members" message. It seems people are joining PBF all the time. They might have something against @yahoo or @gmail free accounts, I don't know...
About the forum... in what I've noticed, the posters at PBF are almost all quite experienced backpackers, perhaps some are UL newbies, but almost always they have years of backpacking experience, thoughtful opinions, and a willingness to hear opinions that differ from their own. Also, PBF has a podcast which is often very interesting. One thing that's always bugged me about Whiteblaze, aside from the hundreds of daily off topic posts and the over-categorization of forums, is that there's a complete heirarchy here which contains hiking newbies (people who literally claim to have never gone backpacking before but are nevertheless currently planning an ultra light AT thru hike), then you have the average posters, and then you have an elite group of people who identify themselves by their immense post count and the list of their thru-hikes and the years they completed them which is displayed next to their post counts. Don't get me wrong, Whiteblaze is a wonderful forum, but things start to break down when the average posters start deferring to the elite posters without questioning and when the hiking newbies start to doll out advice that's been told them by the average posters without really knowing what they're talking about.
Don't get me wrong, I love Whiteblaze for a lot of reasons, but PBF just has a different atmosphere. It's like going from a large backpackers convention where so much is going on that it's hard to hear what the guy next to you is saying, to a friendly, private club that meets in a medium-sized conference room set up with long tables and chairs in a circle around the perimeter so everybody can see everybody else.
Everything you describe seems to be differences attributable to the differences between a large, active, diverse site and a small, tightknit, essentially closed site with a club or tribe mentality.
To each his own.
Everything you describe seems to be differences attributable to the differences between a large, active, diverse site and a small, tightknit, essentially closed site with a club or tribe mentality.
Which one is Whiteblaze?. (And don't forget, Shelters Suck!!! :rolleyes: )
Skidsteer
11-18-2007, 21:51
Which one is Whiteblaze?. (And don't forget, Shelters Suck!!! :rolleyes: )
Shhh.
I was makin' a point.:p
I tend to doubt anyone on that site has any more experience, than many on this site.
Dirtygaiters
11-18-2007, 22:09
I tend to doubt anyone on that site has any more experience, than many on this site.
I didn't mean to imply that. It's the human dynamic aspect which is notably different to me, not the amount of experience of most of the posters.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-18-2007, 22:11
I tend to doubt anyone on that site has any more experience, than many on this site.No kidding. I'd be surprised if anyone on PBP has one-tenth of the hiking experience you have.
No kidding. I'd be surprised if anyone on PBP has one-tenth of the hiking experience you have.
LOL... I wasn't necessarily talking about me! ;) I'm sure some have equal and perhaps more experience, but if you totaled the miles, WB is probably in the millions. I figured out the SoRuck will have about 100,000 miles alone.
I like PBF. They aren't limited to just one trail. I like seeing posts about other trails besides the AT. I am on the west coast so you might understand what I am talking about.
I like PBF. They aren't limited to just one trail. I like seeing posts about other trails besides the AT. I am on the west coast so you might understand what I am talking about.
Ummm, they have forums for all the major trails here and many shorter ones.
Skidsteer
11-18-2007, 22:41
I like PBF. They aren't limited to just one trail. I like seeing posts about other trails besides the AT. I am on the west coast so you might understand what I am talking about.
Other Long Trails (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=421)? :-?
Other Long Trails (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=421)? :-?
LOL... beat me to it! ;)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-18-2007, 22:45
I like PBF. They aren't limited to just one trail. I like seeing posts about other trails besides the AT. I am on the west coast so you might understand what I am talking about.WB has a forum called other long trails (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=421) that covers many other trails and areas and a section devoted to trail maintenance on trails other than the AT. While WB the started as an AT only type forum, it has branched out. Several of the members here have an enormous amount of west coast experience and knowledge - just ask and ye shall receive :D
Edited to add - great minds think alike :D
Skidsteer
11-18-2007, 22:46
LOL... beat me to it! ;)
Nah. Just the link. You beat me with the info. :D
Passionphish
11-18-2007, 23:55
Well, now at 11:00 pm it seems to be working! So I'm not passing up the moment. I'm signing up right now!
Passionphish
11-18-2007, 23:56
I really just wanted to read the reviews on the ULA Conduit and Circuit. I am so single minded... ;)
Issues with Whiteblaze often center around connectivity. Currently Reality (the administrator) has set filters so that when you try to sign up with a "generic" e-mail service like Yahoo or Hotmail, it won't accept you for membership. The reason, as nearly as I understand it, is to prevent trolls who have been blacklisted for spamming or outrageous conduct from creating infinite new e-mail addresses all the time to come back and haunt the site. Therefore, PBF only accepts e-mail addresses from direct ISP's where the number of e-mail accounts available is somewhat limited. It's a pain in the butt, and I'm glad I got my membership when the site was relatively new.
Yes, PBF has some annoying issues. Reality will generally delete any posts with direct links and any post which drift off-topic. I don't use the site as much as I used to after having posts like the one to announce my TrailJournal was deleted simply because "links to other sites aren't in keeping with the spirit of the PB forums" as Reality put it.
The site has some great posts and members. I still check it a couple of times a week, and it is generally worth the look. But it is not the atmosphere where I will want to spend a tremendous amount of time.
I've only just started spending more time here on Whiteblaze because when I signed up several years ago, Whiteblaze really was mostly a site just about the AT and I was doing more in the Rockies in my summers. But I'm growing more fond of it all the time.
Well, I'm not sure how AT Troll does it but I know for sure there's yahoo and hotmail accounts signed up here and WB seldom gets spammed.
Not being able to link to other sites is ludicrous. :rolleyes: Afterall, this is the Internet.
Reality basically sums it up that he doesn't pay for his bandwidth for members to place links to other sites. His site. His rules. :(
Personally I agree with you which is why I don't spend too much time there any more. I refer folks from backpacking.net (AKA the Lightweight Backpacker, where I moderate, and am now grinning at my shameless cheap plug :D) to other sites all the time. It makes for a much more quality way of helping others with questions.
To me, it's neat to see how many familiar "faces"/usernames show up on many other backpacking sites.
RITBlake
11-19-2007, 01:30
I wonder how long a thread like this would even last on Practical Backpacking. Keep your private club...from trailhead parking questions, trail conditions, trip ideas, gear advice, and even help on hiking the Colorado Trail, whiteblaze has been an amazing asset to my hiking/adventure experience. Such a large group of folks means that any and all questions will be answered promptly.
Hell, w/ out some initial advice from TEEJ and Jack we probably wouldn't have it made it up and through Baxter
Dirtygaiters
11-19-2007, 02:45
Such a large group of folks means that any and all questions will be answered promptly.
Ah.. but here's exactly the reason I tend to prefer smaller sites. If I start a thread posing the question, "What's the best base layer for fall and spring backpacking?" then do I want to be inundated by 100s of one or two word posts saying either "synthetic" or "wool" or "capilene" and have the thread wander off topic relatively quickly; or do I want a few thoughtful posts that take into account the intrinsic warming abilty of the fabric, the cut of the clothing, the drying rate of the material, and the pros and cons of things like wrist thumb loops, a zipper or a hood?
I'm not saying that PBF is necessarily full of the most thoughtful people in the world (if you want the most thoughtful backpacking discussion, go to BPL) but here is what I mean when I say that I see the advantage of the smaller atmosphere like PBF has. Your post sits out there for a longer time, and people take more time to think about their replies before posting. Whereas whiteblaze posts can't be edited to clarify anything or make a post more relevant, PBF posts can be edited.
Also, I'm not saying in this example that such technical aspects could never or would never be addressed on Whiteblaze. In fact, I'm sure they've been talked about to death. But with such a large forum with such a fast turnover rate, the most thoughtful posters simply can't read every thread, and when a thread like in my example gets to the 4 page mark and has already wandered off topic, I daresay that a poster with something intelligent to add would simply look at the thread and think, "not worth it," and let the thread die. That's just a prediction based on my own estimate of psychology...if I'm wrong, though, then please correct me.
Whereas whiteblaze posts can't be edited to clarify anything or make a post more relevant,
Expanded features, including editing, can be had for a $10 donation. Many of us realize how much it cost to keep the website running and are appreciative of what WB does for the trail community, so we donate.
also, almost any question is answered within the 1st few post. It's after that they begin to drift. It's not strickly business here and shouldn't be on the trail either.
dixicritter
11-19-2007, 09:06
Reality basically sums it up that he doesn't pay for his bandwidth for members to place links to other sites. His site. His rules. :(
Sounds like he took lessons from Wingfoot. :banana
SGT Rock
11-19-2007, 09:21
My take on that as well. Sites run as a strictly stay on topic forum quickly get boring. You can only say "hammocks are more comfortable" and "alcohol stoves are lighter because..." so many times. And honestly, if you think about it, hiking gear is so subjective - what one person prefers or likes is often more about them and how they think or react than actual statistics of thread count, BTUS/Oz, loft ratings, etc. After a while of playing gear nut you start to realize that talking about the technical aspects of gear mean little to nothing about hiking - it is only a tool to get outside and how you use it and relate to it mean more than the statistics of it. The idea of what insulation is "The Best" is meaningless because there is never such a thing as "The Best".
But when you can read how people interact and think - then you can start to see which members think like you and which members hike like you like to hike or want to start hiking like. Then when you start talking about what works for them, what those people prefer and why - then you can make better decisions on what hiking style to adopt and what gear choices make sense for that mentality and style.
And that is why you get so many answers. Think about it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2007, 09:30
During the short time I was at PBF, I felt like I was walking on eggshells:
:rolleyes: The forum allows no room for you to be a real person IMO.
:rolleyes: It is so heavily moderated that really useful info gets removed so the owner can maintain his pristine format.
:rolleyes: Since it is more like a private club or tribe, any deviation from the norm of the tribe's thoughts re: backpacking is banished. It is a great place to get patted on the back, but not great place to learn innovative backpacking skills
:rolleyes: The techniques used to try to make people register are so obnoxious that I would not have even considered joining the forum had they been in place when I joined.
:rolleyes: The experience level on the site leaves a lot to be desired. The only forum I would trust over there is the cooking / food forum because I know the lady running it has solid credentials. The gear forums often read like a magazine ad for the products. I saw posts that blasted equipment removed several times - and that sort of thing mens the evaluations are tainted IMO
:) Smiley's as bulliets, I like it!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2007, 10:19
:) Smiley's as bullets, I like it!Thank you Sly. I was making a point with those smiley buttons - that post would have been removed over at PBF for using the those smiley buttons regardless of what the rest of the post said. I watched several of Just Jeff's excellent posts disappear over having a link or something equally nonsensical
saimyoji
11-19-2007, 10:52
I have an account there I'd be willing to sell. :D
FD...I sent you a PM...I can bet you'll love it :cool: It is what I can't say publicly:mad:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2007, 12:51
After careful consideration, I no longer recommend the cooking & food forum at PBF
After careful consideration, I no longer recommend the cooking & food forum at PBF
Basically: I have decided to have nothing to do with PBF anymore. It is a private thing overall...I am busy these days, and I have some issues. I haven't been on PBF since early August or so. I truly believe for some, PBF is a good match. It just isn't me anymore. I am one who loves gear and hiking...but I also like some chatter with it.
So, I won't say anything bad, but, no, I don't support the site like I did before.
RadioFreq
11-19-2007, 13:14
With the screenwriter's strike about to result in nothing but repeats on all my favorite shows it's nice to know I can always fall back on WB for great drama. :eek: :D
Issues with Whiteblaze often center around connectivity. Currently Reality (the administrator) has set filters so that when you try to sign up with a "generic" e-mail service like Yahoo or Hotmail, it won't accept you for membership.
Hmm. Many, many legit users use Yahoo or Gmail for "personal" stuff and keep the ISP type e-mail for business. I've had the same yahoo adress for ~9 yrs now and have a gmail address as well.
Over the years, I've lost count of the amount of "professional" addresses I've used as I've gone from company to company.
The only constant online in my life has been my Yahoo account (of course, I could use my pmags.com and/or magnanti.com addies..but that filters to my Yahoo addie anyway! :D)
In any case, with that many roadblocks, it is probably not worth it to use the site for me. YMMV. I have not used the site, so I have nothing against it personally.
With the screenwriter's strike about to result in nothing but repeats on all my favorite shows it's nice to know I can always fall back on WB for great drama. :eek: :D
WB theme (http://www.barbneal.com/wav/tvthemes/laworder.wav)
dixicritter
11-19-2007, 13:20
With the screenwriter's strike about to result in nothing but repeats on all my favorite shows it's nice to know I can always fall back on WB for great drama. :eek: :D
At least the drama is allowed here. :sun
RadioFreq
11-19-2007, 13:23
WB theme (http://www.barbneal.com/wav/tvthemes/laworder.wav)
LOL.....LOVE IT.
SGT Rock
11-19-2007, 13:28
Hmm. Many, many legit users use Yahoo or Gmail for "personal" stuff and keep the ISP type e-mail for business. I've had the same yahoo adress for ~9 yrs now and have a gmail address as well.
Over the years, I've lost count of the amount of "professional" addresses I've used as I've gone from company to company.
The only constant online in my life has been my Yahoo account (of course, I could use my pmags.com and/or magnanti.com addies..but that filters to my Yahoo addie anyway! :D)
In any case, with that many roadblocks, it is probably not worth it to use the site for me. YMMV. I have not used the site, so I have nothing against it personally.It's one of those things you can do to try and block SPAM, but from my experience it doesn't really help - it just makes it that much hader for folks like you or me. I have a Yahoo address like that as well, and when I join a new site where I am not sure exactly how my data might be used, I will sign up with the Yahoo account to cut down on the SPAM to my regular accounts.
As for the not allowing Yahoo, Hotmail, and other similar accounts to join - I turned that on with my site for about a week. I didn't notice any change in the SPAM, but I did get a great deal of e-mails from people trying to sign up that were having issues. I decided it wasn't worth pissing of potential good posters to stop a few bad ones that were not going to be detered by that anyway.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2007, 13:57
As for the not allowing Yahoo, Hotmail, and other similar accounts to join - I turned that on with my site for about a week. I didn't notice any change in the SPAM, but I did get a great deal of e-mails from people trying to sign up that were having issues. I decided it wasn't worth pissing of potential good posters to stop a few bad ones that were not going to be detered by that anyway.Some owners are smarter than others....
As for WB Themes:
How about this one (http://www.barbneal.com/wav/tvthemes/mash.wav) or some days this one (http://www.barbneal.com/looney.htm)?
(the first one has drama, bloodshed and humor :D)
LOL.....LOVE IT.
Yeah, drama with some pretty good guitar...
As someone who posts on several backpacking forums, I personally like PB as a site. When I want to talk about the technical merits of gear that is the site I tend to go to (backpacking light's forums are also good for this, but it can be sometimes hard to find what you want in that chaos) . It's nice to post and have someone like Brian of ULA speak up. And Reality's podcasts are excellent. For me, WB tends to be more of a social experience that I tend to skim and browse rather then read most of the content. I like WB more for background info on long distance hiking in general then anything specific.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-19-2007, 17:49
Miner, you must not read much here - several of the owners of various UL gear firms are active members here and participate in discussions regularly. Many of those who have designed gear that is now commercially available are members here.
Appalachian Tater
11-19-2007, 19:30
I like WB more for background info on long distance hiking in general then anything specific.
As a virgin hiker, I found 80% of the information I needed to prepare for my thru-hike here, with another 10% on "official" websites of trail-related organizations including ALDHA and governmental authorities plus the last 5% on www.backpackgeartest.org (http://www.backpackgeartest.org).
I decided it wasn't worth pissing of potential good posters to stop a few bad ones that were not going to be detered by that anyway.
I think many of us do not get so much PO'd as well...have indifference. Better things to do than spend time configuring an e-mail client to use a non-Yahoo address and/or use my work address for personal business.
In any case, will not be on that site anytime soon.
As you said, any dedicated Spammers will find a way to get on. Legit web-based e-mail people will be like..."Um.never mind..next!" :)
HikeLite
01-19-2008, 18:22
The owner is a journalist who also sells nutritional supplements and writes self-help articles online. He lives in North Plains, Oregon, born Nov 14, thinks of himself as the consummate entrepreneur, thinks chemical sunscreen is bad for you, claims to have coined the term "mind over chatter" ("the use of the functions and abilities of the mind over indistinct or impotent messages of chatter (idle talk)"). Oh, and believes plants have a will to live.
"Perhaps they don't realize that plants are living, and that plants have the will to survive too(?) They have senses. Plants have hormones. They are male and female, and respond to touch for reproduction (pollination). They certainly don't want to be killed. In fact, they do everything within their means to keep from dying (prematurely)."
Just Jeff
01-19-2008, 19:06
Hehe - this is still coming up? Yeah - I used to find PBF useful until I realized that Reality values control and format over the information presented. I had several posts deleted b/c I offered a url typed out rather than embedded. One time someone ASKED for the URL...but the post was deleted b/c the URL wasn't embedded. Funny - the information was presented exactly as asked, but that didn't matter b/c the rules said the information wasn't as important as how it was presented.
Reality jumped on one of my posts b/c I told someone about the BPL experiment re: windscreens and cannister stoves. Even gave me a demerit or whatever those reputation things are (I assume it was him...it happened the same time he blasted the post. Maybe it was one of his loyal subjects.)
But there's still some useful info on there, and I'm sure some folks find it fits their style. Just not me - I favor sites that value information over control. I really like the podcasts, though.
4eyedbuzzard
01-19-2008, 20:09
The owner is a journalist who also sells nutritional supplements and writes self-help articles online. He lives in North Plains, Oregon, born Nov 14, thinks of himself as the consummate entrepreneur, thinks chemical sunscreen is bad for you, claims to have coined the term "mind over chatter" ("the use of the functions and abilities of the mind over indistinct or impotent messages of chatter (idle talk)"). Oh, and believes plants have a will to live.
"Perhaps they don't realize that plants are living, and that plants have the will to survive too(?) They have senses. Plants have hormones. They are male and female, and respond to touch for reproduction (pollination). They certainly don't want to be killed. In fact, they do everything within their means to keep from dying (prematurely)."
Oregon, plants are people too, huh? Why does super blue-green algae also come to mind?