View Full Version : Newbie - has question on GA section
SteveL720
11-19-2007, 15:20
I've been reading many post over the last couple of months which along with driving by the trailheads in the Helen/Cleveland area have got me excited about doing my first section hike next May maybe. I'm thinking about doing Springer to the Carolina border, 60 plus miles in 6 days or so. I'm searching for the things I need, pack, bag, tent, hydration and food and know it's important to keep the total weight down. To get in shape I plan on doing day hikes down here in Florida and maybe do a couple weekends on the Citrus to learn the overnight challenges. Hopefully I'll loose 30 pounds before May so that putting the 30 on my back won't be so hard on the legs. My questions are.... since I plan to do this by myself is it best to find a backpackers hostel to start from, leaving my car there and getting shuttled to the start and from the end of my trip? Seems like that adds about $100 to my cost but sure seems worth it. Also, since I am looking for a little solitude (other then staying at the hostel at Neels to restock and shower etc) I'd kind of like to stay away from possible crowds (and mice) at the shelters. Is this hard to do and how does one look for a good place to camp without harming the vegetation etc? Are there many side trails that take you to clearings or maybe to a ridge? I would be careful not to venture too far off the trail (maybe a few hundred yards) as to not get lost finding my way back. Are there things that are frowned upon when doing this? Safety is important and I know to stay away from where the trail crosses roads.
Any input would be helpful and appreciated. And is the 66-70 miles doable starting on a Sunday finishing by late the following Saturday?
Thanks again. This forum is great!
Lone Wolf
11-19-2007, 15:28
My questions are.... since I plan to do this by myself is it best to find a backpackers hostel to start from, leaving my car there and getting shuttled to the start and from the end of my trip? Seems like that adds about $100 to my cost but sure seems worth it. Also, since I am looking for a little solitude (other then staying at the hostel at Neels to restock and shower etc) I'd kind of like to stay away from possible crowds (and mice) at the shelters. Is this hard to do and how does one look for a good place to camp without harming the vegetation etc? Are there many side trails that take you to clearings or maybe to a ridge? I would be careful not to venture too far off the trail (maybe a few hundred yards) as to not get lost finding my way back. Are there things that are frowned upon when doing this? Safety is important and I know to stay away from where the trail crosses roads.
Any input would be helpful and appreciated. And is the 66-70 miles doable starting on a Sunday finishing by late the following Saturday?
Thanks again. This forum is great!
Go here www.hikerhostel.com for shuttle and parking info. Also you can park long term at Amicalola State Park fo $2. It is safe. There's plenty of camping away from shelters. 10 miles per day is doable
The Weasel
11-19-2007, 15:35
The Georgia stretch is beautiful and extremely challenging, with many parts of the trail going straight up or down, rather than being graded as much as in NC. Your time line - 6 days - works if your legs are in good shape. I strongly recommend as much stairmaster/stadium stair climbing as you can handle. Otherwise, you'll have a tough time finishing the entire stretch.
As for drop off/pickup, hostel or shuttle makes sense, although hitching is good in that area. It will take you longer, though.
Stealth camping is just fine. You can accomplish much the same thing by camping 100 yards from a shelter, and then deciding how much company you want. No one forces you to join shelter culture, but it can be very enjoyable if you wish.
TW
Lone Wolf
11-19-2007, 15:41
The Georgia stretch is beautiful and extremely challenging, with many parts of the trail going straight up or down, rather than being graded as much as in NC. Your time line - 6 days - works if your legs are in good shape. I strongly recommend as much stairmaster/stadium stair climbing as you can handle. Otherwise, you'll have a tough time finishing the entire stretch.
huh? where exactly does the trail in georgia go straight up and down. when was the last time you hiked georgia? the AT in georgia is not difficult
huh? where exactly does the trail in georgia go straight up and down. when was the last time you hiked georgia? the AT in georgia is not difficult
Everything is relative. Relative to New England, Georgia is a cakewalk. A friend of mine just sectioned Georgia, and when I saw him this weekend, he told me that he thought the difficulty was highly overrated. I have to agree, although if you are new to backpacking or out of shape, it can kick your tail.
Survivor Dave
11-19-2007, 16:10
I have to agree with Mowgli, L. Wolf, and Weasel. It is all in the condition you are in.
The Georgia AT is really a beautiful hike. As all hiking sections on the AT have their individual challenges as was mentioned, this is no different except the altitudes and such. I can't speak for anything in other states except Ga.
I've been hiking these parts for a couple of years now and to be honest, there are areas that will be worth the hike up(and down) for the views. Justus, Sassafras, Big Cedar, Cowrock, Wildcat, and Tray Mountains with a smattering of Kelly Knob to boot. The climbs might seem like they are taking hours, but in reality, maybe 45 minutes to an hour...tops. Although folks mention Blood Mountain as a challenge, I find it that way going Southbound.
I agree with staying at the Hiker Hostel for this hike as they provide Hostel/Shuttle service at the same location.
I believe if you stay and shuttle, they will allow you to keep your car on site, just check.
Have a great hike.
SD
max patch
11-19-2007, 16:16
The Georgia stretch is beautiful and extremely challenging, with many parts of the trail going straight up or down
AGREE!!!
Hiking in Georgia (ie, the country of Georgia which was once part of the USSR) is extremely challenging. Mountains are the dominant geographic feature of Georgia. The Greater Caucasus Mountain Range is a popular hiking area, with the highest peaks rising more than 5,000 meters (16,400ft.) above sea level. Care must be taken as the trail is not blazed as is here. One popular area, the region between Kazbegi and Shkhara (a distance of about 200 km. along the Main Caucasus Range), is dominated by numerous glaciers. Extreme caution must be taken when hiking Mt. Kazbegi, as it is of volcanic origin.
But if you were referring to Appalachian Trail within the state of Georgia, then nah, not so tough. The ATC gives it a "6" on a scale of 1-10. I think the ATC has vastly overrated it toughness. I'd call it a lot closer to "easy" than "tough".
Lone Wolf
11-19-2007, 16:19
weasel obviously hasn't hiked northern N.H. and southern Maine
sparky2000
11-19-2007, 16:21
Don't you profesional players rate a kindergarten kid on the same scale.
max patch
11-19-2007, 16:25
Don't you profesional players rate a kindergarten kid on the same scale.
The use of the term "extremely challenging" is over the top.
bigcranky
11-19-2007, 16:35
The difficulty of the Trail in Georgia depends on the individual. I had plenty of backpacking experience, and the Approach Trail was still difficult.
Steve is a novice, from sunny and flat Florida, and says he's overweight. The mountains in Georgia are going to be far, far different from anything he's seen walking around home. Saying the trail there is "not difficult" misrepresents it for many hikers. (Lone Wolf doesn't find anything difficult, I think.)
Steve, yes, you can do that section in a week. May is a *great* time to hike in the southern mountains. You might plan to drive up Saturday and start hiking Sunday. You could leave your car at the Hiker Hostel and get a shuttle on both ends, or you could park at Amicalola Falls and leave your car there. There is a shelter right at the start of the Approach Trail where you could spend the night, or you could get a lodge room.
The nice thing about Georgia is how many places you can get off the Trail. So if you are walking more slowly than planned, you can get off a few miles early -- say, at Unicoi Gap.
You can leave a resupply box at Neel Gap, or just plan to buy food there. Have fun planning and dreaming, and enjoy the trail.
Thoughtful Owl
11-19-2007, 16:46
I agree with many here, GA wasn't bad. Now NC that's a different story.
max patch
11-19-2007, 17:01
I'm thinking about doing Springer to the Carolina border, 60 plus miles in 6 days or so.
While the AT in Georgia is not "extremely challenging" you may need to reconsider your goal. It closer to 75 miles Springer to the GA/NC border, and since their is no road access at the border, you will most likely need to backtrack 9 miles to Dicks Creek. There are other options but that is the easiest way to go. So the question is can you do 84 miles in 6 or 7 days with a mandated overnight at Neels Gap? That may be a bit much to do based on your description of yourself.
I'll offer a few more thots a bit later. Is the 6 or 7 days total hiking days or do you need to take care of the shuttle during that time? Is the 6 or 7 days dedicated totally to hiking or do you need to do the shuttle part of day 1?
- or Rhode Island where I live.
If you've hiked in mountains at all, you should have an idea of what you'll need, at least for a day hike.
Camping while hiking is so much different than car camping, I don't think that there is a comparison.
Basically, you want to do the stair climbing exercise mentioned with a pack on your back. I'd recommend doing a minimum of two hours stair climbing three times a week, if you have no other way to approximate mountains.
Get good shoes or boots which fit properly (see an outfitter and read up on boot fit if you're not familiar with it).
Use a hammock or single wall shelter with bug netting in May, both for the bugs and to minimize weight.
Carry the lightest cookware you can (I currently use a beer can stove to heat water and rehydrate commercially available "hiking food" for the least weight and hassle (but more cost). For a week, you won't go broke or get bored. Boil water, pour into bag, stir, let sit, eat - no hassles. Bagels and tortillas make good bread to carry for a week. Peanut butter is crucial :D for a hike of any length (well, it's good protein and fat, which you'll need).
The AT in Georgia has a multitude of little campsites along its length. I wouldn't worry about finding a place to pitch your shelter (thought I would strongly suggest checking trees for poison ivy vines before hanging a hammock).
There's a lot I could say, and others could add to, as far as to gear and conditioning, but the most important thing (as far as I'm concerned) is that you have well broken in footwear that is comfortable, so I'll leave it at that.
Good luck. :welcome
I'd kind of like to stay away from possible crowds (and mice) at the shelters. Is this hard to do and how does one look for a good place to camp without harming the vegetation etc? Are there many side trails that take you to clearings or maybe to a ridge?First, difficulty is relative, and since you haven't backpacked ever, assume it will be more difficult than you think. The better shape you can get in to start, the more you will enjoy.
I find, even when starting in pretty good shape, that day one isn't bad at all. Then day two you start to feel a little muscle fatigue and aching. Day three - you have places that hurt that you didn't know existed - day three (if first two days were full 10-or-so-mile days) is typically the hardest to enjoy. Day four turns the corner and you start to get better - your body is acclimating. Day five and beyond you start sailing! :) All of this assumes you've taken good care of your feet, preventing/treating any blisters properly. Use light-weight hiking shoes or trail runners to enjoy "happy feet."
I agree with above comment that camping near a shelter allows you the option of socializing as much or as little as you care to. Plus you have the luxury of a privy and table/seat for cooking (although I like my ThermaRest chair the best). Often times too, the only water source for miles will be close to a shelter. If you don't want to encounter mice, don't sleep in shelters and hang your food, bear-resistant style, in a tree - that simple.
To practice no/low impact, leave no trace, backpacking, try to tent in designated campsites, especially if you intend to have a fire. We don't need more fire rings. We need less! :) There are many wonderful camesites both near and not near shelters in Georgia that will provide the solitude you seek, without having to venture way off the trail.
Springer Mtn to Dicks Creek Gap is 66.6 miles. Creek Dancer and I did that section back in April. We parked the car in Hiawassee and got a shuttle back to Springer Mtn. We hiked up to the top of Springer then back down. We took our time and did it in 6 days. Our longest day was 14 miles and our shortest was 6.5 (the last day).
The hardest part for me was Kelly Knob..seemed like that climb went on forever.
Enjoy your hike and take lots of pictures
SteveL720
11-19-2007, 18:01
Thanks for everyones input. Yes, although many of you say GA is not difficult I know for this FL guy (old man/51) it's going to kick my butt at the beginning. One reason I want to skip the approach trail is that while reading Trailjournals one guy said he stopped to camp 2 nights on his way up the 8 miles to Springer. That in itself told me I should just skip that part. Thanks again everyone. I am looking forward to it and am positive I will enjoy this life experience.
Pedaling Fool
11-19-2007, 18:14
I've been reading many post over the last couple of months which along with driving by the trailheads in the Helen/Cleveland area have got me excited about doing my first section hike next May maybe. I'm thinking about doing Springer to the Carolina border, 60 plus miles in 6 days or so. I'm searching for the things I need, pack, bag, tent, hydration and food and know it's important to keep the total weight down. To get in shape I plan on doing day hikes down here in Florida and maybe do a couple weekends on the Citrus to learn the overnight challenges. Hopefully I'll loose 30 pounds before May so that putting the 30 on my back won't be so hard on the legs. My questions are.... since I plan to do this by myself is it best to find a backpackers hostel to start from, leaving my car there and getting shuttled to the start and from the end of my trip? Seems like that adds about $100 to my cost but sure seems worth it. Also, since I am looking for a little solitude (other then staying at the hostel at Neels to restock and shower etc) I'd kind of like to stay away from possible crowds (and mice) at the shelters. Is this hard to do and how does one look for a good place to camp without harming the vegetation etc? Are there many side trails that take you to clearings or maybe to a ridge? I would be careful not to venture too far off the trail (maybe a few hundred yards) as to not get lost finding my way back. Are there things that are frowned upon when doing this? Safety is important and I know to stay away from where the trail crosses roads.
Any input would be helpful and appreciated. And is the 66-70 miles doable starting on a Sunday finishing by late the following Saturday?
Thanks again. This forum is great!
As for what gear to get and planning resupply points/hostels, ect. I recommend you go to the Homepage and read all the topics under the "Articles" section (on the left side of the screen). All good info; basically you got to plan your trip just like a thru-hiker, you'll need all the same stuff and info, the only difference is that your trip is not as long.
briarpatch
11-19-2007, 18:41
Ok, time to weigh in with GA time estimates. Most hikers take between 6 and 10 days to finish the GA stretch of the AT, with the average being around 8 days.
Yes, I know that in shape or experienced hikers do it in 6 days or less of on the trail hiking. But you lose part of a day on each end with shuttles, so those can't be considered full hiking days - you have to add a day to take that time into account. And I've even had in shape flatlanders write back after their trips and tell me that 8 miles a day for the first day or 2 out was a stretch.
Keep in mind that I'm talking averages, so "your mileage may vary", quite literally. But I would plan on the Georgia AT to be an 8 day hike, and if you finish early - thats great.
canerunner
11-19-2007, 20:35
Thanks for everyones input. Yes, although many of you say GA is not difficult I know for this FL guy (old man/51) it's going to kick my butt at the beginning. One reason I want to skip the approach trail is that while reading Trailjournals one guy said he stopped to camp 2 nights on his way up the 8 miles to Springer. That in itself told me I should just skip that part. Thanks again everyone. I am looking forward to it and am positive I will enjoy this life experience.
I'm 58, and haven't hiked in a number of years until recently. My son and I did the Approach Trail about a month ago, and it is a very doable section. Don't let someone on Trailjournals scare you off. It's a very nice hike, and even if it is tough, it's worth it. You may want to camp along the way, but it will be because you like the view or the campsite, not because you're exhausted.
Stick to your plan of doing the day hikes, and do the stairs at a football stadium like your life depended on it. Getting your legs conditioned with the stair climbing (with weight in your pack) will make all the difference in the world. I did three or four day hikes with my son before we hiked up the approach trail, and although I was tired when I got to the Springer shelter, I could have hiked on to Stover Creek if I'd chosen to.
If you start out with no conditioning, you may take a couple of days to hike the approach. If you prepare yourself, you can do it easily. Do plan on stopping to rest when you feel like it, and do pace your self. The 7.5 (+/-) hike should take you about 6 or 7 hours. If you can get to the Top of the Falls parking lot early, you can hike it at a leisurely pace in one day.
Two Speed
11-20-2007, 02:24
If you can find the time it might be a good idea to try a couple of overnighters on the southern end of the Alabama Pinhoti before taking on a 80 mile section. Bear in mind that the Pinhoti is somewhat milder than the AT. If you can handle decent mileage on the Pinhoti you're probably in condition to start fooling around on the AT. Also will give you a chance to do a "shake down," check your gear out, develop some basic skills, etc, and it's a lot closer to home for you.
Last, the Pinhoti is just a neat trail, and well worth seeing in it's own right.
River Runner
11-20-2007, 02:29
It took me 9 days to finish Georgia, in two different section hikes. A friend who was hiking with me had an injury on the first section hike, which resulted in not hiking quite as fast as I might have otherwise, but that's part of trail life.
The one thing I've found in hiking the AT is that things rarely go as planned. Make your plans for as far as you hope, then make at least two back-up plans in case you don't get quite that far.
The nice thing is there are a lot of great hostels/small hotel owners and shuttlers in the area. We also had cell phone service on quite a few of the mountains, which helped when we needed to call for a ride when plans changed.
GA is beautiful, and the hike uphill after Bly Gap is a good one. :)
Nearly Normal
11-20-2007, 07:30
The first 10 miles in Georgia is the easiest day you will have for a while.
Where you find the state difficult or not, it still is a beginning for many that have never hiked.
By Neel's Gap, a good many come the the conclusion that it's not just a stroll in the woods.
I thought Georgia plenty tough enough and a good example of mountain hiking.
Nearly Normal
SteveL720
11-20-2007, 11:44
Thanks again for all the great info. This newbie is more excited then ever now. :)
One other issue I have a question about... food and where to keep it at night. Seems like half hang it while the other half keep it in the tent with them. I assume no matter what you always keep things sealed as good as possible, even your trash probably needs to be in large ziploc's. Now if you keep everything in your tent aren't you taking the chance that a wondering bear might decide he thinks he smells something inside your tent? I sure wouldn't want any unexpected company. Also, when a person "stealth" camps is there less chance a bear would even come close to your tent? Since many people are in or around shelters you would think the bears or any animals would check that location routinely. Thanks again everyone!!
Blissful
11-20-2007, 11:49
huh? where exactly does the trail in georgia go straight up and down. when was the last time you hiked georgia? the AT in georgia is not difficult
I agree, I think North Carolina is much more difficult with straight up and downs, particularly the Stecoah region (ugh). Even the hike out of Bly Gap was a nice intro to the NC terrain. Georgia is just hard because you are out of shape for hiking and toting a bunch of needless stuff. But actually looking back on it, I would say it's easier than NC.
Blissful
11-20-2007, 11:52
Thanks again for all the great info. This newbie is more excited then ever now. :)
One other issue I have a question about... food and where to keep it at night. Seems like half hang it while the other half keep it in the tent with them.
Hang it. Avoid potential problems. The only time we didn't hang and kept our food in the tent was terrible conditions in the WHites where no living thing would be out in the elements anyway.
Stick to your plan of doing the day hikes, and do the stairs at a football stadium like your life depended on it. Getting your legs conditioned with the stair climbing (with weight in your pack) will make all the difference in the world.
I agree with the stair climbing, however, I would not climb stairs with weight, I think the benefit is marginal, and the risk of injury is significant. Wait until you do overnighters to carry the weight.
Here's another vote for:
1) Take some overnight camping trips near home to get some practice carrying and using your stuff.
2) Start at the Hiker Hostel, and get input from Josh and Leigh for planning your trip.
3) There are several bail-out points in Georgia, so you can lengthen or shorten your trip as required. You may even want to plan a zero day in Neels Gap, to rest your abused muscles and feet, resupply, observe, learn, and enjoy.
One other issue I have a question about... food and where to keep it at night. Seems like half hang it while the other half keep it in the tent with them.Don't get "fixated" on bears when thinking about protecting your food. Sure, bears are a potential threat, but not the ONLY threat! On the rare occasions that I have had food in my tent (for whatever reason), skunks or raccoons ALWAYS show up and will slide around your tent all night long trying to find a way in and to the food. I'm not sure what other critters bother you in the northern AT states, but for the above reasons alone, you will want to hang ALL of your food and trash. Yes, ziploc bags are the way to go. I like the thicker "freezer" type for large items and smaller (but not sandwich bag) ones where appropriate. Double-ziploc-bag items you fear might leak or spill (i.e. coffeemate).
Food should be hung at least 12' off the ground and 8 to 12' out from the base of the tree. Use the bear cable systems provided at many shelters, if staying nearby them. Also use a camoflage stuff sack if possible. Bears, while colorblind, do spot brighter color stuff bags easier. It should be waterproof/resistant and of durable material. Take care to keep your "tie-off" end of your hanging rope as high off the ground as possible and as disguised as possible. Bears have been known to discover this line and sever it with one swipe of their paws . . . pouncing on your stuff sack full of food practically before it hits the ground! :eek:
Hang it carefully and well, and then don't fret over it, loosing sleep. Most hikers, at least on the AT, never encounter a bear attempt on their hung food. Out west is a different story, especially in places like Yosemite, Yellowstone, Glacier NPs where there are so many people and bears are bigger and more aggressive than the blacks we have in the east.
max patch
11-20-2007, 13:24
Double-ziploc-bag items you fear might leak or spill (i.e. coffeemate).
Do thrus still carry Tang? We all had what we called "Tang blowouts" until we learned the hard way that it needed to double ziplocked.
Although I've never carried Tang, I've heard about "Tang blowouts" before! :D I prefer the much lighter Crystal Lite Iced Tea! :)
Do thrus still carry Tang? We all had what we called "Tang blowouts" until we learned the hard way that it needed to double ziplocked.
Some stuff just isn't meant to be carried in plastic bags--that's why plastic jars were created.;)
bigcranky
11-20-2007, 15:01
One other issue I have a question about... food and where to keep it at night. Seems like half hang it while the other half keep it in the tent with them.
At the GA shelters, there are special bear cables. Use them if you stay there. If you camp elsewhere, it's a good idea to hang your food. Not necessarily against bears, but plenty of other critters like a free meal.
A few hikers, not half, keep food in their tents.
troglobil
11-20-2007, 15:13
Squirrels are able to bypass the guards on the cables. they will get at your food if you use them.
Also, I just rehiked the appraoch trail for the first time in several years, I would say it is easier than the AT in GA.
Footslogger
11-20-2007, 15:16
If you do decide to hang your food, I would suggest that you allow a couple feet (at least) between the foodbag and the cable/branch. The mini-bears are quite skilled at tightrope walking and can walk out and drop down and get into your food if convenient.
True story ...this past August we hiked from Rangeley to Monson. Night before Monson we camped near Moxie Bald Shelter. Got all set up and decided to walk down and check out the pond. Hung our food over a branch but the bag was just a few inches below the branch. In just the short period of time it took to walk to/from the pond a couple chips had walked across the branch and dropped down onto the food bag. As we walked into our campsite they were actually sitting on the food bag munching, having already chewed a hole through the silnylon and retrieved some goodies. Funniest part was that I stood right below them and made noice to scare them away - but they just sat there eating and staring at me, confident that I could not get at them up there. Also ...the bag was more than 12' off the ground and well beyond 8 feet from the closest tree.
'Slogger
Hurray for the BearVault 400:
http://www.fuelforadventure.com/bv400.html
Squirrel proof - bird proof - skunk proof - raccoon proof, etc. I picked mine up on sale for $60! ;)
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 16:36
not needed on the AT
not needed on the ATIn your opinion . . . right? Perhaps if and when you have a bad experience sleeping with your food in your tent, your mind/opinion will change. Whether tenting or the rare occasion that a shelter presents the best choice for the night, it gives me complete peace of mind regarding the safety of my food, not only from bears, but all the other critters as well. ;)
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 16:45
In your opinion . . . right? Perhaps if and when you have a bad experience sleeping with your food in your tent, your mind/opinion will change. Whether tenting or the rare occasion that a shelter presents the best choice for the night, it gives me complete peace of mind regarding the safety of my food, not only from bears, but all the other critters as well. ;)
overkill really.
I haven't figured out how one "overkills" peace of mind! I prefer it! :p :)
The Weasel
11-20-2007, 19:12
weasel obviously hasn't hiked northern N.H. and southern Maine
Wolf, I've hiked northern NH, and I've done some nice hills in the Sierra and southern California. "Newbie" is - as clearly stated - "new" and looking to train. For you, and maybe me now, north Georgia may not be the same challenge. But many of the hills are non-graded (i.e. they go from the bottom of a saddle or ravine straight to the top, without going along the side of the hill) making for fast elevation changes (down, too), and 11 miles a day for someone who hasn't done that for a few weeks straight is an aggressive start.
So it's going to be work for someone new to the AT, and who isn't 'trail trained' in terms of the workout each day. It's beautiful, it's exciting, but just starting out, it's work.
By the way, as for "straight up," well, there aren't a lot of places I've walked - without technical climbing or wall climbing - that go up faster than that stretch of Albert Mountain to the top. It had its moments.
TW
The Weasel
11-20-2007, 19:15
Thanks again for all the great info. This newbie is more excited then ever now. :)
One other issue I have a question about... food and where to keep it at night. Seems like half hang it while the other half keep it in the tent with them. I assume no matter what you always keep things sealed as good as possible, even your trash probably needs to be in large ziploc's. Now if you keep everything in your tent aren't you taking the chance that a wondering bear might decide he thinks he smells something inside your tent? I sure wouldn't want any unexpected company. Also, when a person "stealth" camps is there less chance a bear would even come close to your tent? Since many people are in or around shelters you would think the bears or any animals would check that location routinely. Thanks again everyone!!
The risk isn't so much bears - there is some of course - as more obnoxious varmints such as coons (no brains, just fur with a stomach) and skunks (brains, stomach and, well...) who may scratch their way into your tent. It doesn't take much effort to hang food/cooking gear, and properly done, it's safe and secure.
As for 'stealth', there are more small varmints trained to enjoy shelters, but food smell will bring them almost anywhere.
TW
By the way, as for "straight up," well, there aren't a lot of places I've walked - without technical climbing or wall climbing - that go up faster than that stretch of Albert Mountain to the top. It had its moments.
TW
There are miles of trail similar to Albert Mountain in NH & Maine.
The Weasel
11-20-2007, 19:18
overkill really.
Agreed. Bear cannisters are way heavy and created because of backpackers who don't understand how and what to hang at night. So now they're required in a lot of places, including out here. Heavy, hard to pack, and a pain in the tush except you can sit on them. If you know how to "fly" food bags, and how to put them a long way from your sleeping place, you don't need a cannister.
TW
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 19:21
But many of the hills are non-graded (i.e. they go from the bottom of a saddle or ravine straight to the top, without going along the side of the hill) making for fast elevation changes (down, too), and 11 miles a day for someone who hasn't done that for a few weeks straight is an aggressive start.
By the way, as for "straight up," well, there aren't a lot of places I've walked - without technical climbing or wall climbing - that go up faster than that stretch of Albert Mountain to the top. It had its moments.
TW
nothing in georgia goes straight up or down. albert mtn. is in N.C. and it's maybe .2 of a mile climb. not tough at all
If you know how to "fly" food bags, and how to put them a long way from your sleeping place, you don't need a cannister.
TW
Problem is, most hikers aren't experts. And since the bear's life is at stake, the rules were implemented to protect the bears. I didn't mind carrying the cannister. It was an extra 2.5 pounds. Well worth it for the peace of mind.
nothing in georgia goes straight up or down. albert mtn. is in N.C. and it's maybe .2 of a mile climb. not tough at all
There are very few fall line trails down south. Personally, I think all trails straight up & down a mountain should be eliminated - whenever feasible. Trails built on the fall line are simply not sustainable. They end up eroding. Almost always badly.
A lot of trails in southern Maine iare a bi***. I can't speak for Georgia, I hear it is a nice section of trail though.
Enjoy your hike,
Kirby
Pedaling Fool
11-20-2007, 19:43
Georgia is a nice section and fairly tough to the uninitiated. However, I think southern NC (Bly Gap to Fontana Dam) is tougher than Ga.
However, I think southern NC (Bly Gap to Fontana Dam) is tougher than Ga.
Agreed - 100%. Everything is relative. Compared to the couch, Georgia is a bear! ;)
I have never met a dumb raccoon. Or maybe I am dumber.
cpzuroff
11-20-2007, 19:58
I can't answer your questions about parking your car and shuttling, but I can talk about the hike of the first 60 miles starting at Springer. I did a 630 mile section hike starting at Springer this summer.
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The first few days were pretty tough. The trail in GA tends to go straight up the mountains. At least that's how it felt at the start of the hike. Water availablility was pretty good in GA. Some sections were dry, but 5 miles or so was another water source. Looking back on the experience, GA had plenty of water. It was pretty darn dry in the southern half of the Smokies and in Virginia.
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Drop off a food package at Mountain Crossings and plan on staying at that hostel. That's about 30 miles into the hike. I really enjoyed staying in that hostel. And you can resupply there if you didn't pack well.
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I stayed at the Springer Mountain Shelter on the first night. Camped out the next three nights. Tray Mountain was tough, but then again, the day before was my first 15 mile day.
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Try to keep your pack weight low, and you'll have a blast. That section of the trail was beautiful and well maintained.
Skidsteer
11-20-2007, 20:07
Tray Mountain was tough, but then again, the day before was my first 15 mile day.
Musta been the 15 mile day that did you in.
Tray Mountain is exceptionally well-graded and is only a 500' - 600' ascent spread over 3/4 mile.
Blood Mountain NOBO is another easy one that seems to psych people out.
Agreed. Bear cannisters are way heavy and created because of backpackers who don't understand how and what to hang at night. So now they're required in a lot of places, including out here. Heavy, hard to pack, and a pain in the tush except you can sit on them. If you know how to "fly" food bags, and how to put them a long way from your sleeping place, you don't need a cannister.
TW
Agree on:
1) heavy
Disagree on:
1)"backpackers who don't understand . . . - this hiker with 34 years of experience on AT, PCT, Canadian Rockies, Alaska, Alps, Long Trail, etc. understands all too well what hanging food at night entails, enough to relish in the fact I don't have to do it anymore! :)
2) hard to pack - mine packs very easy. All my food's organized in one place. For shorter hikes I put my cooking gear right inside it too. It fits very nicely in the main compartment of my Gregory pack, helping to make it nice and symetrical in shape.
3) pain in the tush - hardly! I love mine. Nothing painful about it.
4) Sit on - while it's certainly sturdy enough to do so, I prefer my ThermaRest chair . . . much more comfy on the back.
So while you're hoofing it out to that "long way from your sleeping place" to untie, lower your food bag, put away your rope (maybe in the rain), I'm still in my sleeping bag, having reached outside the tent (rain) or gone 10 yds otherwise, for my BearVault, probably have finished boiling the water and taking that first sip of hot coffee 'bout the time you get back from that "long way from your sleeping place" with your food. You're soaking wet and cold and I'm dry, warm, and sipping coffee. Yeah, that sounds like the way to go to me! :confused: :p :)
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 20:53
So while you're hoofing it out to that "long way from your sleeping place" to untie, lower your food bag, put away your rope (maybe in the rain), I'm still in my sleeping bag, having reached outside the tent (rain) or gone 10 yds otherwise, for my BearVault, probably have finished boiling the water and taking that first sip of hot coffee 'bout the time you get back from that "long way from your sleeping place" with your food. You're soaking wet and cold and I'm dry, warm, and sipping coffee. Yeah, that sounds like the way to go to me! :confused: :p :)
if it's so bear proof why keep it outside the tent? my food bag stays next to my head. i can snack whenever i want
max patch
11-20-2007, 20:56
Some people wear and belt AND suspenders AND a second pair of pants.
if it's so bear proof why keep it outside the tent? my food bag stays next to my head. i can snack whenever i wantBecause you don't want the bear to join you in the tent, irregardless of whether it's successful in getting at your food! The BearVault comes with a warning on it not to store it close to your tent overnight. The principal of DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR FOOD is near the top of the backpacker's list of "Dos and Don'ts." I sincerely hope that you don't learn that lesson the hard way some day! ;)
I started hiking the AT in my early 50's with no prior experience backpacking. I am a farmer so I am at least familiar with the outdoors. I prepared for my first hike by walking everyday for six months and I progressed to taking a pack on the walks. I started with small loads and increased the load to my expected hiking weight. I am in good physical condition.
I hike in February and March with a heavy pack.
A few observations.
1. Georgia is a plenty hard hike for a 50 year old newbie, but very doable.
2. You can not overtrain. The better condition you are in the more fun it is.
3.There is nothing magical about the NC border. It makes sense to take out at Dick's Creek Gap.
4.Enjoy your hike, don't focus on the destination. Have a backup plan if you don't reach your daily mileage goals.
5. Ga shelters are not bad, hanging food is no problem.
6. Become very familiar with your tent, stove etc.
FanaticFringer
11-20-2007, 22:55
I started hiking the AT in my early 50's with no prior experience backpacking. I am a farmer so I am at least familiar with the outdoors. I prepared for my first hike by walking everyday for six months and I progressed to taking a pack on the walks. I started with small loads and increased the load to my expected hiking weight. I am in good physical condition.
I hike in February and March with a heavy pack.
A few observations.
1. Georgia is a plenty hard hike for a 50 year old newbie, but very doable.
2. You can not overtrain. The better condition you are in the more fun it is.
3.There is nothing magical about the NC border. It makes sense to take out at Dick's Creek Gap.
4.Enjoy your hike, don't focus on the destination. Have a backup plan if you don't reach your daily mileage goals.
5. Ga shelters are not bad, hanging food is no problem.
6. Become very familiar with your tent, stove etc.
You most certainly can overtrain
MtnTrail
11-20-2007, 23:26
Steve, I gotta hijack this thread a little farther, as a newbie looking to start a section hike this year on the AT. This debate over to hang/not to hang, to vault/not to vault is eye opening. I've done day hikes in the Rockies and Texas. Last trip to Leadville, I was skiddish about the bears, visiting a local outfitters for a vault, the clearly wildnerness-frequenting employees were politely giggly at my fear, assured me the nearly 3 lbs and $60 wasn't necessary, but hanging correctly was and gave me a demo, a seatosummit bag and rope. I've crossed a bear on a trail, no harm done. Haven't faced a hungry bear, squirrel or coon wanting my organic granola yet. I feel your pain.
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 23:29
paranoia and marketing go hand in hand
MtnTrail
11-20-2007, 23:36
Good thing the wilderness crowd came to my rescue from the temptations of glitzy marketing (that could be a question, as much as a statement).
(snip) . . . assured me the nearly 3 lbs and $60 wasn't necessary, but hanging correctly was and gave me a demo, a seatosummit bag and rope.See my post #7 here:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29845
The food bag I lost was hung to perfection. But then, I'm not a BearVault salesman! :p :D If the rigors of dealing with the inconvenience, time waste, worry of animals getting in it, and effort of hanging your food outweighs the 2 lb 9 oz., less the weight of your alternative, then by all means keep on keeping on! :)
Lone Wolf
11-21-2007, 09:22
giggly at my fear, assured me the nearly 3 lbs and $60 wasn't necessary, but hanging correctly was
correct. totally unnecessary and way overpriced and heavy. hang your food if you must but i've slept with my food for 16,000 miles on the AT and never had a problem
To get in shape I plan on doing day hikes down here in Florida and maybe do a couple weekends on the Citrus to learn the overnight challenges.
My questions are.... since I plan to do this by myself is it best to find a backpackers hostel to start from, leaving my car there and getting shuttled to the start and from the end of my trip?
Also, since I am looking for a little solitude (other then staying at the hostel at Neels to restock and shower etc) I'd kind of like to stay away from possible crowds (and mice) at the shelters. Is this hard to do and how does one look for a good place to camp without harming the vegetation etc?
Are there many side trails that take you to clearings or maybe to a ridge? I would be careful not to venture too far off the trail (maybe a few hundred yards) as to not get lost finding my way back. Are there things that are frowned upon when doing this? Safety is important and I know to stay away from where the trail crosses roads.
Any input would be helpful and appreciated. And is the 66-70 miles doable starting on a Sunday finishing by late the following Saturday?
Thanks again. This forum is great!
The Hiker's Hostel in Dohlenaga is a great place to start from.
Good places to camp are all over the place. I camp near shelters for the convenience of water, but there are plenty of established campsites along the way.
I hiked Neel's to Deep Gap in seven days, I was 47 at the time and overweight and I thought it was tough. If I can do it, anyone can.
Day hiking in Florida will in no way get you ready for the trail. You can learn how your gear works in your own backyard. I agree with the others about finding some stadium and climbing up and down the stairs there. That's the closest you'll find to the AT in Florida.
Someone mentioned bug netting for the bugs in an earlier thread. I don't think you'll have any problems with bugs in May in the mountains. In early May, I'd be more concerned with the errant snow storm. I do my sections in June, and I rarely had bug problems at the higher elevations.
Have fun!