View Full Version : Bear Bagging
Nearly Normal
11-20-2007, 07:05
I have never had this happen but I've read that some folks have had mice get in their bag when hung from the provided cables.
The cables I've seen had guards provided for larger critters but I guess mice could get through.
I've also seen mice hangers with a small guard in some shelters. I don't know first hand if these work or not.
Hikers are the best source for new ideas from need.
Anyone got ideas to improve the cable system?
Maybe flashing around the pole or tree the cables are hung from.
Nearly Normal
The couple of times I've talked to hikers who had lost cable-hung food the previous night, they had hung on cables with close-by, overhanging branches. I think flying squirrels had jumped onto their food bags. I always choose hooks as far as possible from overhanging branches and have never had a problem.
Thoughtful Owl
11-20-2007, 10:05
I guess I have been pretty lucky. I have never had anything get into my food when hung in a bear bag either on a cable or when I have had to rig my own.
I always choose hooks as far as possible from overhanging branches and have never had a problem.
Im pretty religious about hanging my food no matter where Im camping. I have not had any incident of invasion of my food bag. But I havent even thought about the nearby branches! Thanks for that thought Marta, I will be more aware of which cables/branches I use!
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 10:25
i have never had anything get into my food bag while sleeping with it in my tent
bears are getting smarter, don't know how i didn't loose my food, but it nearly chewed through my line, where it was tied to the tree
i got the best picture that i could (trying to hold a camera and the rope), but it doesn't show half the damage done http://web.mac.com/thickredhair/AT_Fall_07/In_Words/Entries/2007/9/29_The_Bear....html
I'll cross-post from another thread, as it's very appropriate here:
Food should be hung at least 12' off the ground and 8 to 12' out from the base of the tree. Use the bear cable systems provided at many shelters, if staying nearby them. Also use a camoflage stuff sack if possible. Bears, while colorblind, do spot brighter color stuff bags easier. It should be waterproof/resistant and of durable material. Take care to keep your "tie-off" end of your hanging rope as high off the ground as possible and as disguised as possible. Bears have been known to discover this line and sever it with one swipe of their paws . . . pouncing on your stuff sack full of food practically before it hits the ground!
The one time a bear got my food was in Yosemite NP. The tree I hung it in was perfect and I had it about 16' off the ground and ten feet out from the base of the tree on a 4" diameter limb. The large 500 or so pound brown bear I saw snooping around my camp that evening must have been the thief. When I went to get my food the next morning, about 75 yrds from my tent, the limb was broken off near the base, my stuff sack was in shreds and all I found was a ziploc bag of instant coffee with bear teeth holes in it, but I guess the bear showed compassion and left me some coffee . . . that was all!
I had my couple of cups of black coffee, packed up and hiked to the nearest trailhead (about 7 mi.), thus ending that loop hike a bit earlier than planned. I reported the incident to park rangers (bear encounters are required to be reported, you are told when you apply for a Yosemite backcountry permit). When I said where it happened they exclaimed that they knew which bear it was and that he had struck numerous times. They said once a bear learns to "take the fall" that comes with breaking a fairly high up tree limb, and especially that the reward is worth the bang they take when they hit the ground, they'll do it over and over! :eek: They said when they catch him, they would tranquilize him and move him to a remote area of the park.
So . . . moral of the story is . . . it's possible to lose your food no matter how well you hang your food in that perfect tree. If bro' bear gets a "wild hair," your food's history! :D
i have never had anything get into my food bag while sleeping with it in my tentDon't take that philosophy into grisley bear country! :eek: :D
Have you never had skunks/raccoons pester and wake you snooping/sliding around your tent? It's happened to me several times. Seems like anytime and every time I've kept any food in my tent. Now that I have/use a bearvault canister, those problems are over. ;)
Lone Wolf
11-20-2007, 14:58
Have you never had skunks/raccoons pester and wake you snooping/sliding around your tent? It's happened to me several times. Seems like anytime and every time I've kept any food in my tent. Now that I have/use a bearvault canister, those problems are over. ;)
nope. never.
also i think i'm going to start doing the pct method for hanging my bag, was looking at it the other day, and its not hard at all, just have to get the damn clove hitch right.
buckowens
11-20-2007, 19:59
Had one incident at Justus Creek but nothing further after putting a pot lid on the rope above the bag. Those "aviator" squirrels could still be a problem I suppose...
I have never had any proplems with bears (knock of wood :rolleyes: ) but a couple of times I have discovered that, even with hanging my food bag, sometimes I would find holes chewed into my bag as well as many items chewed on inside. Now I don't know what squirel scat looks like, so I have to assume that it was mice (contents also contaminated by mouse(?) scat and urine)
I have since run my paracord through the center of a Frisbee which rests on a square knot about 6" from the carbiner (attached to the end of my rope) where I clip my food bag. If a critter now tried to climb down the rope, he is confronted by a big yellow Frisbee. If the critter tries to step on this, his weight tips the Frisbee and since it is slick, he just slips off. Welll, it seems that it will work in therory, anyway!
Anyne here have any experience with a set-up like this? By the way, I got the idea from a WB post a while back but don't know if it wa ever actually tried on the AT.
Oh, and thanks Marta. Never thought about the possibility of Flying Squirels.
bessiebreeze
11-20-2007, 22:10
Yes, I have heard of little critters that got into food bags that were properly hung on bear cables. Since then I have been using tupperware containers to keep my food in, inside the bear bag, which is hung up. I know it adds a few ounces to your pack weight, but it is worth it. I have had no trouble at all with critters getting inside the tupperware.
turtle fast
11-20-2007, 22:11
I have had mice climb bear cables in the Smokeys and ruin half of my food. They decided to select several ziplock bags to chew thru have a buffet and poop in them afterward...they for good measure peed on my pack towel !!!
They had to of climb across the bear cable, down the line and had chewed a hole thru the top to get to the goodies. Small mice hole on top...to big for Squirrls.
Bear Resistent, squirrel proof (even flying ones), mice proof, bird proof - end of the food hanging ordeal:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/BRV0002/c/s/Bear-Vault-BV400-Bear-Resistant-Food-Canister..html?id=soQBEvzL
Picked mine up for $60 on sale a while back at REI. It surprisingly packs very nicely in the main compartment of my Gregory pack, and when doing less than 7-day hikes, or when my remaining food diminishes, I pack my stove and other items in it as well. After 34 years, I'm an ex-food-hanger! :)
Grumpy Ol' Pops
11-21-2007, 00:15
Bear Resistent, squirrel proof (even flying ones), mice proof, bird proof - end of the food hanging ordeal:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/BRV0002/c/s/Bear-Vault-BV400-Bear-Resistant-Food-Canister..html?id=soQBEvzL
Picked mine up for $60 on sale a while back at REI. It surprisingly packs very nicely in the main compartment of my Gregory pack, and when doing less than 7-day hikes, or when my remaining food diminishes, I pack my stove and other items in it as well. After 34 years, I'm an ex-food-hanger! :)
Ordered my BV400 on-line last year for a great sale price close to $50. But they do add 2 1/2 pounds empty weight to your pack and take up a lot of non-compressible room. It's also very difficult to carry anywhere but at the bottom of the backpack, meaning everything must come out before you can access the contents. It also prevents sticking smaller items into the small, open spaces around it. The shape could be more friendly for backpacking if they made it slightly more oval than round, but I don't know if that would destroy any of the bear resistance.
Ordered my BV400 on-line last year for a great sale price close to $50. But they do add 2 1/2 pounds empty weight to your pack and take up a lot of non-compressible room. It's also very difficult to carry anywhere but at the bottom of the backpack, meaning everything must come out before you can access the contents. It also prevents sticking smaller items into the small, open spaces around it. The shape could be more friendly for backpacking if they made it slightly more oval than round, but I don't know if that would destroy any of the bear resistance.Yeah, who wouldn't like them to weigh like 1 lb? But it's worth it IMHO. I like the way it fits in the bottom of my main Gregory pack compartment. I never need to get to it during the day (while hiking) as in the morning I put what I want to snack on during the day's hike in the top compartment of my pack. It goes in the bottom snug to one side. My tent and ground pad fit nicely on the other side bottom. Then cooking gear and tent ground cloth get stuffed around toward the bottom front of the main compartment. Clothes go in the top. Compression straps on the pack snug it all up to a very nicely shaped pack. As I use up the food inside, I add stuff to fill it up, starting with cooking gear (JetBoil, cup, etc.) with no problem.
BTW, EMS has the BearVault 400 on sale for $63 right now! ;)
Thoughtful Owl
11-21-2007, 09:50
Anyone ever try those Ursack Bear Bags? http://www.ursack.com/ursack-S29.htm
Regarding bear cannisters, they are overkill on the AT IMO. They are required on some trails in the west. The JMT requires them because bears will damage the trees you hang your food from in order to get at your bear bag. The cannister regs in Yosemite are in place to protect the bears and the trees. A fed bear is a dead bear.
Doc_of_the_bay
11-23-2007, 18:23
Hey, I think I'm going to switch to this bear-proof system. Then I won't have to use cables, carry a bear canister, or hang my food in a tree. It should also offer some protection from drunks, skunks, and other trail nuisances.
http://www.rei.com/product/761282
It seems like a bargain at $369, and it only weighs 8 pounds more than a nylon bag and a length of parachute cord.;)
Some of you DIYers can probably figure out how to make one out of beer cans and picture hanger wire.
buckowens
11-23-2007, 18:45
Hey, I think I'm going to switch to this bear-proof system. Then I won't have to use cables, carry a bear canister, or hang my food in a tree. It should also offer some protection from drunks, skunks, and other trail nuisances.
http://www.rei.com/product/761282
It seems like a bargain at $369, and it only weighs 8 pounds more than a nylon bag and a length of parachute cord.;)
Some of you DIYers can probably figure out how to make one out of beer cans and picture hanger wire.
I would not have believed it had it not been right there in the REI pages... Wow, that is some serious protection. I would probably forget about it and get straddle it in the middle of the night in my underwear. :D Wait till Roo sees this!
Toolshed
11-23-2007, 18:59
Regarding bear cannisters, they are overkill on the AT IMO. They are required on some trails in the west. The JMT requires them because bears will damage the trees you hang your food from in order to get at your bear bag. The cannister regs in Yosemite are in place to protect the bears and the trees. A fed bear is a dead bear.
They are required in the High peaks of the Adirondacks - Has been that way for about 5 years now..
If you just want to keep the small critters out a cheap ($4.50) and fairly lightweight (11.9 oz) alternative is a clean paint can from Lowes. Just an option.
Hey, I think I'm going to switch to this bear-proof system. Then I won't have to use cables, carry a bear canister, or hang my food in a tree. It should also offer some protection from drunks, skunks, and other trail nuisances.
http://www.rei.com/product/761282
It seems like a bargain at $369, and it only weighs 8 pounds more than a nylon bag and a length of parachute cord.;)
Some of you DIYers can probably figure out how to make one out of beer cans and picture hanger wire.Now that's hilarious!! LOL! :D
i have never had anything get into my food bag while sleeping with it in my tent
Yeah, on my thru-hike this year I knew a few people who swore by this method. It saved them lots of time every night. Oh, and on a similar note, several people told me that a mouse chewed (at least) one large hole through their $200+ tent.
5 minutes a night... 1/100 chance of ruining a $200 tent... that's about $2 you are spending every time you want to save 5-10 minutes. Personally, I'm in no hurry when I'm in the woods. But, for those who would like to play the lottery while they're out hiking... that's fun!
- Sudoku
Lone Wolf
11-29-2007, 21:45
well kid, 16,000 miles over 21 years and NO critters effing with me is pretty good. no treating/filtering either. i AM god:)
dessertrat
11-29-2007, 21:45
There's actually a smaller and more portable electric bear fence out there, just can't find the web site right now. The unit is about the size of a big GPS, and wires plug into it.
SouthMark
11-29-2007, 22:00
bears are getting smarter, don't know how i didn't loose my food, but it nearly chewed through my line, where it was tied to the tree
i got the best picture that i could (trying to hold a camera and the rope), but it doesn't show half the damage done http://web.mac.com/thickredhair/AT_Fall_07/In_Words/Entries/2007/9/29_The_Bear....html
Nice iWeb site Gaiter. Good job.
well kid, 16,000 miles over 21 years and NO critters effing with me is pretty good. no treating/filtering either. i AM god:)
After on-n-off hiking for 40 years, I also never had any problems with critters getting my food, but then I started taking an occational bath..... :D
Bare Bear
11-30-2007, 17:17
I always hang my food and never had a loss.......but bear in Fl did climb the tree and break some branches off then fell and gave up. I listened to it all while thinking "sure should have put it further away from the camp and so much for a fire keeping animals away" and "how in heck can Boots and Gumby sleep thru all this noise?".
dessertrat
11-30-2007, 17:23
well kid, 16,000 miles over 21 years and NO critters effing with me is pretty good. no treating/filtering either. i AM god:)
Maybe you smell really bad to the critters?:-?
As for the water, didn't you say you'd had the Mt. Rogers rot or something at one point in time?:banana
Has anyone tried the Ursack odor resistent plastic bags? They look like ziplocs but are suppose to be better. I wondered if I should try these out.:-?
Pedaling Fool
12-01-2007, 00:57
Has anyone tried the Ursack odor resistent plastic bags? They look like ziplocs but are suppose to be better. I wondered if I should try these out.:-?
Never seen them, but I don't think they would work too well because of the odors that would get on the outside of the bag from regular handling after handling the food. Just a guess.
Maybe you smell really bad to the critters?:-?
That's the secret - never bathe! I can start that today and leave my 2lb 9oz bearVault 400 home next hike in April! ;) :D
Somethign hillarious happened with the bear bag system to me. I was hiking in the Smokeys last summer and using the provided wire bear bag lines with the guards on them. Somehow some mice or something got into them and got into our GORP. They took the MandMs out of the GORP and apparently put them into our boots in the middle of the night. Keep in mind, this bear bag line was at least 100 yards away. A few people in our crew found 5 or 6 in their shoes, i only found 1. :)
I agree that this is overkill for the AT. For the couple problems with mice getting into food I heard of it would not be worth carry 2 1/2 lbs to your pack. Hang your food and you should be good. If a mouse gets into your food you will be able to deal with it. We never had any problems until the 100 mile wilderness in September. Not sure if it was the area or the time of year but the mice were a pain. They did not get into my stuff but they did get into others.
Bruce Hudson
12-03-2007, 21:36
Can you explain please? PCT?
quote=Gaiter;452634]also i think i'm going to start doing the pct method for hanging my bag, was looking at it the other day, and its not hard at all, just have to get the damn clove hitch right.[/quote]
Quiet Eagle
12-03-2007, 22:31
Can you explain please? PCT?
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html
Scroll to about halfway down to "A Better Way: The PCT Method".
I use it exclusively. It will leave your bag lower than you could hang it by tying the tag end of your line off at the tree or ground peg, but you eliminate the chances of a bear chewing the rope at the tie-off and getting your bag to drop. After my bag is set, I wind up and secure the free end of the line so it suspends as high up as I can reach (about 8 feet). If a bear is smart enough to spot the suspended bundled line, reach up, grab it and somehow get my food, I figure he has earned it.
jtbradyl
12-14-2007, 22:54
Here are the ingredients for a home made bear proof container made to whatever size you want. Go to a plumbing supply store, buy a large diameter ABS piece of pipe, cut it to size. Buy 2 caps and ABS glue and primer. If caps aren't available you have to get a sheet of ABS. I use 3/16 thick but 1/4 might due. The whole idea is to glue a plate at one end and fashion a flush cover at the other which rests on a ridge. It can be secured by 2 bolts that run down the sides opposite each other and through both end plates. Or whatever fastening system you can devisebfor the cover. At any rate a bear will not be able to breach the container, it won't cost $20 and the size is your choice. When gluing ABS it is always best to use clamps. When grooving a shelf from the thickness if the ABS pipe even if it is not perfect the ABS glue acts as a filler.
jtbradyl
12-14-2007, 22:57
By the way choose black
NorthCountryWoods
12-15-2007, 11:14
I used to be a bag hanger and always had more problems with the littlest critters getting into the food. Same thing when I kept food in the tent. Had holes chewed in my first tent due to that and never tried it again. Bear Rock Falls campsite in MA had a Sugar Glider (probably a pet that was released) and red squirrels terrorising bags for a season or 2 in the late 90s. I know they did a number on one of my bags.
I know the Ultraliters will freak, but after being in Brown bear country for a few years, got used to the canisters and still use them here. We have the original heavy (http://www.backpackerscache.com/) and it works well.
The added weight doesn't bother me and watching the raccoons attempt to get in it has entertainment value.
kayak karl
12-15-2007, 12:41
By the way choose black
abs is very heavy. i make containers for my kayaks with this, buts thats different. not carrying it.
jtbradyl
12-15-2007, 15:27
Whatever container one makes it won't weigh much more or exactly the same depending on size as those commercial bear cannisters. I spent part of the summer fixing motorcycle plastics so i have the glue and stuff so a home made cannister will cost about $5. Beats $65-$70 for something that should cost maybe $15 Isn't that funny? In order to prevent bears and rodents from ripping off your food supply the cannister companies get a govenment stamp of approval and then rip off your money! Heck! Bears and rodents and raccoons are pikers compared to these guys!