View Full Version : Poof! Hubba Catastrophe Tonight
Tonight was a perfect night for a backyard shakedown of the new Hubba I just got, thinking this might be the tent I'll take on my next hike. I liked it, but had one little problem.
Some wind, some rain, some cold, nice mix for a set up. Easy, the new pole system (07) is great. But then, after we are all set up and lightly staked out -:eek: SNAP! The pole breaks right where two join outside of one of the hubs, and it's a perfect tear along the metal. Thankfully, it did not puncture the fly, even though the edge is very sharp, I took the whole thing down right away after I schlepped all my sleeping gear back inside.
Bummer. Anybody else have this problem, or have any suggestions on dealing with MSR for a new pole? I bought it from a second party, not a store. :o
Bummer. Anybody else have this problem, or have any suggestions on dealing with MSR for a new pole? I bought it from a second party, not a store. :o
It shouldn't matter. I wouldn't even mention that it's second party. Call customer service, they'll probably replace it if you explained what happened.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-22-2007, 07:48
Talk with the manufacturer - the pole should not break like that along a clean line unless there was a defect in the pole sleeve. My guess is they will replace the pole.
Two Speed
11-22-2007, 07:56
:eek: Warning! Thread Drift Imminent! :eek:
This little episode clearly demonstrates the value of testing gear in the back yard. At home a failure like this is an "Aw, poopy" moment. Yep, a pain in the neck, but no big deal.
On the other hand discovering a little defect like this in the middle of the woods, adding the possibility of having some inclement weather thrown in rises to the level of an "Aw, !$#^*!" moment.
This concludes this test of the WB Thread Drift Warning System. You may unfasten your seat belts and light up a smoke if you want to. Heck, run up and down the aisles with a pair of sharp scissors for all I care.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-22-2007, 08:12
::: Dino makes plans to adopt Two-Speed as he is clearly her offspring in spirit :::
***** Public Service Message Follows *****
A rain fly can generally be fashioned into a serviceable tarp if such disaster strikes in the woods. Remember the pebble-with-cord-tied-below grommet substitute and an overhead point to tie off to can often make a shaped fly serviceable until you can get to town when a pole breaks. If the rain fly is toast, the waterproof bottom of the tent can be used overhead for weather protection.
We now return you to your regularly schedules broadcast already in progress.
Toolshed
11-22-2007, 08:27
MSR has excellent CS. They will send you a new pole with few if any questions. They have akways taken care of me without issue on tent or stove queries.
Toolshed
11-22-2007, 08:30
Bummer. Anybody else have this problem, or have any suggestions on dealing with MSR for a new pole? I bought it from a second party, not a store. :o
The other thing I would add is to pick up a section of emergency pole repair (for field repair only) It is a pole sleeve that is 8" long and 1mm in diameter larger than yours, you slide it over each end and duct tape the whole package.
trekkngirl
11-22-2007, 08:34
I used my older model Hubba (loved it)for over two years without any problems at all,but a couple of weeks ago I put it up at camp and the pole split at the the top.I took it back to REI and they offered to replace the poles and that would have been okay but it was going to take a few weeks to get them and I needed the tent for this weekend.They replaced the whole tent with the new 07 model...No problem! Now what you have said is disappointing...I set it up in my garage a few days ago and it is okay so far..guess I'll see when I take it out.But I have packed the repair tube they send with it just in case.
One of the poles in my MSR snapped too while I was out on the Fires Creek Rim Trail almost exactly one year ago. Very frustrating.
Tipi Walter
11-22-2007, 10:33
It's one thing to have the pole replaced by the company, it's another matter to actually consider taking such a tent out in real conditions after something like this happens.
I had a Mt Hardwear Light Wedge 2 tent(with the "new" Atlas poles)set up in Slickrock on a 12 day backpacking trip and dang if one of the poles didn't snap with a loud pop. No wind, just cinched the fly down too tight, I guess. With no tent sleeve I fashioned some sticks and twine for a repair(picture in my gallery)and had to pack the now elongated pole on the outside of my pack, etc.
When I got home I called Mt Hardwear and they immediately sent me a whole new pole section, no questions. But meanwhile I took an old dome tent's poles and cut my own set for the Light Wedge, a completely new set with beefier poles.
So, this question: What is the millimeter diameter of the Hubba poles? 10 mm is beefy, I imagine the MSR to be around 8.something or 9. Are they DAC aluminum?
Two Speed
11-22-2007, 11:03
I used my older model Hubba (loved it)for over two years without any problems at all . . .
One of the poles in my MSR snapped too . . .
. . . and dang if one of the poles didn't snap with a loud pop. . . Dang, what are you children doing to your tents? Been fooling around backpacking and camping for better than 20 years now and haven't ever had anything of the kind happen to me. Ain't no way I'm lending any of you guys any tent of mine.
::: Dino makes plans to adopt Two-Speed as he is clearly her offspring in spirit :::Ummm, gotta admit being a Two Speed dinosaur could be kinda cool, but we gotta talk about that tie-dyed overall wearing stuff.
Thank God for gear tests!! We were out on an excursion about 2years ago and our Mtn Hardware tent poles(2 of them) snapped. I think it was a combo of reasons for the snaps. When we got home and contacted Mtn. Hardware, with no questions asked they sent us new poles. They were great about it. That's the good thing about forking out a little money for gear-you get what you pay for, in product and service.:)
Yes, agree with you all on every point so far! I only mentioned I bought it on the web from a non-outfitter because of warranty issues with MSR, it really doesn't matter where I got it, it was new and I have faith in MSR for a replacement until they prove differently.
The really bizarre thing is that the Power went out and a nearby transformer about 200 yards away sparked like lightning at the moment the pole snapped! I thought that was an amazing coincidence, and I'm just thankful that no material was ripped. A pole can be replaced.
So, I conclude that I am not the first, nor the last to have this happen, and I am very happy that I will do several shakedown gear tests before heading out as I usually do - anytime I get new gear it's like Christmas - gotta use it right away, somewhere, somehow!
TipiWalter, I believe they are the DAC aluminum on the 09 hubbas. I can post a pic if anybody is interested in taking a look, it happened where two poles jointed.
FrolickingD - I like the suggestion about the tent bottom - I had not thought of that before! Have you been watching Survivorman? :) :) I think Dino's are just wise.
if you have a broken pole in the woods you can fix it very easy: find a aluminum soda can - cut off the bottom and the top, and you have a aluminum foil,if you have crazy glue put a line of glue along one edge of the foil and put the 2 broken ends of the pole together (before you put the glue on the foil) whit a small piece of wood inserted in the aluminum tubes,roll the foil around the poles tight and put again crazy glue , you can reinforce it whit some cord...
you can practice whit 2 pencils, pens, or use your imagination:D
Did you give MSR a call yet? Never have had an issue getting CS from them. I do live near Seattle though ;) You can walk into their offices here if you know where the MSR & Cascade Design factories are!
Don't mention that you bought it second hand. Just state that you were setting it up and it went "doink" and broke ;)
Doink is right. No, it's Thanksgiving, I'll wait till Monday, and will let everyone know how it goes with their CS :)
Makes me nervous about those two brands. I had a tent fold up in the wind twice. While they were nice, both times, FedExed a new set of poles, I never used that tent again. LLBean. High wind, but so what.
Are these pole issues you speak of freak things, or design flaws?
Just received my Hubba from REI yesterday as I got on sale. Set it up inside to give it a quick check out as I have to work through the Thanksgiving holiday. I did not check to see where the poles are made if it even says. Could it be a China connection?:-?
I think tent poles are running up against the limit of 'lightweight'. Sure it's great that they're 6oz than they used to be, but I'll carry the extra 6oz if they don't break in the wind...
I lucked out when I bought my tadpole it was a display model and someone had set it up in the store with titanium poles. The clerk didn't notice when he took it down and packed it up for me. :D
I wonder if I could get titanium poles for the Hubba, that would be very cool. :)
bigboots
11-22-2007, 23:51
All of these problems make me nervous...I just bought the hubba after much testing and talking to people. I bought it 2 weeks ago and haven't had a chance to get out yet. I'm planning on doing a short weekend hike leaving tomorrow after work(yes some of us have to work) so I can test it out. I did set it up when I brought it home and it looks good and I am very glad to hear of such good CS!
buckowens
11-23-2007, 09:58
I have a Hubba Hubba and had breakage on the first trip, but it was the receptor on the hub that cracked. I used the repair sleeve included with the kit and a bit of duct tape to hold it in place. Worked great for the remainder of the 11 days.
I got a return authorization from MSR and will send back all of the poles for them to look at.
If you don't have the repair sleeve, there is one also in the MSR repair kit you can buy. I agree with ozt42 that they are pushing the edge with the lightweight stuff...
Other than this minor incident, I love my Hubba Hubba!
I had no idea I would here so many pole-snap stories when I originally posted! Has anybody else out there had this happen with other tents too, or it is an MSR thing?:-?
Survivor Dave
11-23-2007, 10:17
Just to toss this in the ring. I have a fellow hiker friend that has replaced his Hubba Hubba poles with these carbon fiber poles for weight. He said that although the originals slightly bent, they never breached. In 2007 MSR switched from Aluminum DAC poles to Aluminum DAC NSL poles to save a couple of ounces. Personally, I have not had an issue as of yet. I do agree MSR is pushing the strength limits.
Below is the link for the carbon fiber poles. They make them for other tents as well and guaranteed for life. A bit pricey at $163.......
Fibraplex homepage:
http://www.fibraplex.com
To: HH poles directly:
http://www.fibraplex.com/ebay/MSRHubbaHubba.htm
I had a Bibler Bombshelter tent, from when Bibler was independently owned in Utah and they're stuff was handmade, whose poles were permanently bent. After three year of hard use the poles never gave hint of giving up, is was still taught as a drum and my ex-wif could sit on it. The tent was light relatively light at 2.25lbs person, and it was built like a tank.
Do you mean your x wife or tent built like a tank:confused:
Either way it had to be a hell of tent, eh?
I cleared it up, so great minds could ponder more substantial matters. ;)
Hey, use a tarp or hammock - no poles needed. If you want some poles, pick up a new set every night. Haven't had a tent pole issue in years. Course never had one when I did carry a tent either... :-)
I am actually rethinking the tent route, I just like to sleep with my pack and the hammock thing doesn't really allow for that. Here's a photo of the tear in the pole, and just below the 'rope' inside the pole you can see a little crack below it as well.
Still happy it was home, not trail! :)
LIhikers
11-23-2007, 15:19
I think tent poles are running up against the limit of 'lightweight'. :D
My thoughts exactly.
I'd vote for reliability over saving a little weight anytime. It sounds like the tent companies are having us do their engineering and field trails for them. If failures are under a certain percentage then it's acceptable, if failures are over that percentage then it's back to the drawing board.
.......Below is the link for the carbon fiber poles. They make them for other tents as well and guaranteed for life.
I can't find any listed for the Hubba solo tent, do you see them somewhere I might be missing them?
:-?
Survivor Dave
11-23-2007, 15:32
Here it is. The Hubba replacement poles are $144.
http://www.fibraplex.com/ebay/MSRHubba.htm
If you go to http://www.fibraplex.com and click on the Hubba pic at the top of the page, it will take you to all of the manufacturers replacement carbon fiber poles.
Sorry Smile, This takes you right to it!
http://www.fibraplex.com/tentpoles2B.asp
SD
Tipi Walter
11-23-2007, 15:54
Here's a fotog of my tent pole breach:
Since I didn't bring a repair sleeve, well, I used some sticks and cordage. Pitiful.
No problem. MSR will replace your broken pole right away. I try very hard to buy my equipment at REI. They guarantee all the equipment they sell.
troglobil
11-23-2007, 17:59
I've had it happen to the poles on my REI Taj 3. They took a pole out of a tent in stock and gave it to me since I was needing it th next day. Since then, the replacement one has developed a crack. Until I can get back to REI I have just been putting the repair sleeve over the weak spot when I set it up, just incase it decides to snap. I think the cracks developed from using the inner holes to pitch it. That seems to make it very tight.
Here's a fotog of my tent pole breach:
Since I didn't bring a repair sleeve, well, I used some sticks and cordage. Pitiful.
Nothing pitiful about that.
I stamp that damn fine.
Nothing pitiful about that.
I stamp that damn fine.
Me too, nice job in a pinch, that is what it's all about! Take nothing for granted on a hike, any piece of equipment can fail at anytime, and creativity is your friend! :)
Tipi Walter
11-23-2007, 20:56
It all worked out but I still had 3 more days of camping and the set wouldn't fit in the pack:
The repair splint photo is great. Reminds me of a buddy on our '81 LT thru who had to do the exact same thing. but to the pack frame of his Jansport D3 which snapped just before Manchester Center. A garage in town welded it there, but the weld broke the following day so the sappling lashing trick ended up working for the next three weeks.
Two Speed
11-25-2007, 07:18
Tipi, if that repair worked it was beautiful. Maybe not as slick as the the undamaged pole, but anything that lets you stay on the trail is good stuff IHMO.
On a slightly different tack I've been trying to teach myself how to make "Native American Epoxy." The basic concept is to heat some sap from a Virginia pine and mix hardwood ash into the hot sap, which yields a thermosetting glue. I know it works because I've seen arrows fletched with this stuff. Said arrows are about 20 years old and the glue is still performing just fine. Unfortunately there appears to be some skill involved that I haven't developed just yet.
Here's a fotog of my tent pole breach:
Since I didn't bring a repair sleeve, well, I used some sticks and cordage. Pitiful.
Was that on one of your Hillebergs?
Tipi, if that repair worked it was beautiful. Maybe not as slick as the the undamaged pole, but anything that lets you stay on the trail is good stuff IHMO.
On a slightly different tack I've been trying to teach myself how to make "Native American Epoxy." The basic concept is to heat some sap from a Virginia pine and mix hardwood ash into the hot sap, which yields a thermosetting glue. I know it works because I've seen arrows fletched with this stuff. Said arrows are about 20 years old and the glue is still performing just fine. Unfortunately there appears to be some skill involved that I haven't developed just yet.
Are you mixing the sap and ash with animal fat or just water?
Two Speed
11-25-2007, 08:08
Are you mixing the sap and ash with animal fat or just water?No animal fat or water, just pine sap and hardwood ash. I'm having two problems: getting the proportions correct and getting a really fine ash with no charcoal in it.
Just received my Hubba from REI yesterday as I got on sale. Set it up inside to give it a quick check out as I have to work through the Thanksgiving holiday. I did not check to see where the poles are made if it even says. Could it be a China connection?:-?
Yep , probably have some lead in 'em too;) There's so much being manufactured in China I would not be a bit surprised. Off the cuff, I would imagine an informal survey would show at least 85% of camping products made there.
Tipi Walter
11-25-2007, 10:13
Was that on one of your Hillebergs?
How do I say this with the needed import and importance? HECK NO IT WASN'T A HILLEBERG!
It was my Mt Hardwear Light Wedge, with the new Atlas style poles(crap). This whole mini-epic is what actually pushed me to get a Hilleberg in the first place. Tired of the little flimsy mesh tents, lightweight shelters not meant for tough winds, blown snow or even a cinched down fly:mad:
How do I say this with the needed import and importance? HECK NO IT WASN'T A HILLEBERG!
It was my Mt Hardwear Light Wedge, with the new Atlas style poles(crap). This whole mini-epic is what actually pushed me to get a Hilleberg in the first place. Tired of the little flimsy mesh tents, lightweight shelters not meant for tough winds, blown snow or even a cinched down fly:mad:
Which Hillebergs do you have, how do you like them and how do they compare to Biblers? Do they include all the stakes 18+ listed in the weight as well as everything else?
Tipi Walter
11-25-2007, 10:58
Which Hillebergs do you have, how do you like them and how do they compare to Biblers? Do they include all the stakes 18+ listed in the weight as well as everything else?
I have two Hillebergs, the Nammatj 3 and the dome Staika. They remind me of the way tents used to be made back in the days when a good tent was a 4 season tent meant for ALL conditions. Though not perfect, the Staika is my personal favorite and has been used on numerous trips. Unfortunately, my favorite tent is a heavy tent and will not be carried willingly by most backpackers.
If I ever had to replace my tents with something else, I'd go with the Bibler Fitzroy, though I see some immediate problems right off the bat. For one, setting up a Bibler in a rain storm might be frustrating, and having a tent without a decent vestibule is also a problem. Also, I'm not so sure of the overall quality of a Bibler as I've heard some pole-ripping fabric stories, broken poles and glued patches coming undone. It's hard to find a decent 4 season tent, they are mostly too heavy, but the Hillebergs, especially the tunnels like the Nallos and the dome like the Jannu are light for their size, much lighter than any equivalent brand.
The Nammatj's have interested me for a while now. I got rid of my mountaineering stuff and have been through a few "three season" tents. If the Tarptent trial doesn't work, I'll try a Hillberg.
I had a Bibler Bomshelter as part of my climbing kit. The weight wasn't an issue, because I always had one partner and usually two, and the protection the tent offered was well worth it. The one I had was a pre-Black Diamond, model made in Utah; the SOB was $350 more back then, but the quality was tops.
At first I was worried about the poles, because they required a huge amount of force to bend into place. I though that either a pole would snap or a pole would jump out of the female snap that they set in, and rip the tent apart because they are inside the body of the tent. The poles were permanently bent from one to four inches per section after the first trip, but they never gave way. I never had a pole jump out before it was to late either.
Setting it up storm was actually pretty easy. Stake out the end with the small vestibule into the wind, climb in it, put the poles up, crawl out the other and end stake it down, set more stakes, and lastly the install the large vestibule pole and stakes. The only thing that could be bothersome was if there were heavy winds and you could get a percussion headache from the material flapping. As well, if you were wet, it was going to get wet setting it up, but it was quick and easy to wipe it down, once it was set up.
I don't know why the don't put at least one vestibule on the Fitzroy, when the Bombshelter is the practically same design and it has two.
Overall I was most pleased with the Bibler.
No animal fat or water, just pine sap and hardwood ash. I'm having two problems: getting the proportions correct and getting a really fine ash with no charcoal in it.
I wasn't sure of the proportions but I googled it and acually came up with this
Hafting Glue (http://www.onagocag.com/glue.html)
Not sure if that is what you are looking for but...
Two Speed
11-25-2007, 13:29
Hmmm, I thought if you added animal fat to pine sap and ashes you got soap. Gonna have to mess around with this if the burn ban is ever lifted in these parts.
Just to toss this in the ring. I have a fellow hiker friend that has replaced his Hubba Hubba poles with these carbon fiber poles for weight. He said that although the originals slightly bent, they never breached. In 2007 MSR switched from Aluminum DAC poles to Aluminum DAC NSL poles to save a couple of ounces. Personally, I have not had an issue as of yet. I do agree MSR is pushing the strength limits.
Below is the link for the carbon fiber poles. They make them for other tents as well and guaranteed for life. A bit pricey at $163.......
Fibraplex homepage:http://www.fibraplex.com
The hubba poles are $144 from these guys, but what a weight savings!
Weight Comparison:
Original pole weight: 13.8 oz/392g
Fibraplex Poles= 7.55oz/214g
Save 6.3 oz/178g
IMHO a half pound is a pretty good weight savings, they also have poles for the Zoid and many other tents, you can check that page out here:http://www.fibraplex.com/tentpoles2B.asp
I have to report that I mailed the poles back to MSR on November 28th. I went away for the weekend, and when I returned on Monday night, Dec. 3, a brand new set of poles were there - I have NO CLUE how they got here so fast, just amazing. Way to go MSR, the reports of excellent customer service were right on.!
Now, if I can get a good wet, cold, and windy night again to try them out, it will be icing on the cake :)
The really bizarre thing is that the Power went out and a nearby transformer about 200 yards away sparked like lightning at the moment the pole snapped!It always creeps me out when stuff like that happens. I know coincidences exist, but if I turn on a light in the house at the same time that lightning strikes nearby, it takes an hour to get my pulse back to normal.