View Full Version : Children and long distance hiking
How does everyone feel about people bringing their children on long distance hikes?
This is a question that has bothered me for quite sometime. In Backpacker Magazine March/April edition 1981, my stepfather Jeff Cogswell wrote an article entitled "Coming of Age" (or something to that effect). The article covered the interesting points of our thru hike in 1980, and some of the more humorous parts of our trip.
It wasn't until my early 20's when I was trying to replace the magazine by making copies off some old microfiche that I came upon the letters to the editor regarding the article. Very little positives were said, if any at all. In fact, most were more along the lines of attacks upon my stepfather's character/morals/parenting skills.
Since reading that, I've wondered what people thought about it and would like to give them an opportunity to hear it from the youngster who actually experienced the adventure and be able to tell the pros and cons for me personally. :-?
So please, post your comments or if you have questions regarding what it was like for a six year old, ask away... :D
So please, post your comments or if you have questions regarding what it was like for a six year old, ask away... :D
I am glad you started this thread. I was going to ask without the invitation in another one.
I am curious about a bunch of stuff. How did your body (what there was of it) hold up? I would think that it would have been very difficult to keep up with the adults' pace.
I am also curious as to whether or not you felt pressures that one doesn't normally associate with your age at the time. If you did, how did the adults help you cope?
(Since you asked a question too, I'll answer it. IMO, one would have to be nuts to take a 6 year old on a long distance hike. Your opinion will be far more interesting than mine, though. I look forward to hearing it!)
Rick B
I am curious about a bunch of stuff. How did your body (what there was of it) hold up? I would think that it would have been very difficult to keep up with the adults' pace.
I am also curious as to whether or not you felt pressures that one doesn't normally associate with your age at the time. If you did, how did the adults help you cope?
Rick B
The physical aspect of it was pretty harsh for the first couple of months. I was a city kid for the most part, extremely active, but not used to hiking with my own pack on my back.
I recall complaining all the way up Springer...
"I wanna go home, my feet hurt, wah,wah,wah,etc..."
My pack was by no means heavy ( an orange Eastpak Daypack with a custom built frame for support) I carried my sleeping bag, tent, some gorp, clothes and our first aid kit. I couldn't have weighed more than 10 lbs.
It was the pace that my parents kept that was difficult for me to maintain. A six yr old has difficulty matching strides with a 6' plus man. But after a couple of months, I was the one always in the lead. Usually because I wanted to see everything first, and be able to say " What's down that blue trail there?"
Another thing to consider is, as my stepdad Jeff would say, I was made out of rubber. I forget exactly when I started my little counting game, but by the time we strolled into Harper's Ferry, I had fallen 998 times... It was a game I played to keep me occupied when I wasn't bounding off ahead of my parents.
Now for the mental strains...
I wasn't your average 6 yr old. I was definitely more mature than most. At first, I didn't understand the entire thing about having to make it to this place by this date. But eventually over some time I realized, I have to keep up, I have to match them because if not, we'll be late for a mail drop, or this place we'll be closed due to weather.
So, I eventually did come to those adult realizations that if you don't do x, we won't make it. The trail made me grow up fast, and that is probably the worst thing that thru hiking the AT did to me.
As an example, I don't recall exactly where we were at, but I remember the setting quite vividly. We were eating mac-n-cheese, and I was just messing around. My parents were discussing whether we can make it the rest of the way or not. They pretty much concluded that, no, we weren't going to be able to finish it. It had been rough on me (the usual cuts, bruises, and blisters any other hiker gets), and on my mother as well (she had sprained her ankle several times, the worst was ontop of Bald Mountain? Lighting was crashing all around us and she had slipped in the mud so my father had to get under her shoulder and help hike her down to the nearest shelter from the storm)...
So they had decided to quit, but my mother refused to be the one to tell me, and so Jeff called me over. He told me, "Look son, we been talking it over.." and that they were thinking of calling it quits.
Now when most children get angry,they have a tendancy to cry and I was not one to be different. I was enraged that they would even think of quitting. It's kind of hard to recall what I said in reply, but I know it was to the effect of "No! We're not quitting!" My stepdad had always told me that if you can't do something, then try, try again. I pretty sure I reversed the role on him that day.
At times, a question myself and wonder... Would I be the person I am today if I hadn't said yes? It's hard to say. The worst aspect I can think of again is, you can't be a child truely after an experience like that. The large responsibility, the driving desire to complete what you started. It' has to be a gray area, both good and bad.
Some people have said, "What an awful thing to do to a child his age..."
To them I have to say, ultimately the decision was mine, I chose to stay, to finish what I started.
The thing with the AT, at least for me is, the beauty of it all. From being a city kid, to a thru hiker. To sit back and review all of those vivid images of nature that haven't been lost over time to my mind's eye, that beauty that at least 80% of today's kids will never see unless it's on TV or the internet.
For me that is the greatest gift I have ever been given, and damn anyone who would attempt to take it from me, both then, and now...
Sorry about the long winded reply, but having been pent up over 20 years and no real way to tell people who have seen the same things...
But anyways, if you want more answers, let me know... :D
If you would like to see what the height difference was, you can see the photo in the Faces\thruhiker section or do a search under the keyword Cogswell...
i think that the decision depends on attitude. There obviously are a few youngsters out there who are willing to go along with it.
But, like many youth sports, many of the young superstars of today loose interest as they get older. Been there, seen that. Burnout. As a ski parent, I have seen many talented young skiers loose interest as they get older. Many of the youngsters even had a parent that was very invovled with the sport in a positive way.
It's hard to be an encouraging parent, without being too encouraging that burnout sets in. I suspect that the same thing is true with backpacking.
We have 3 children. The one who always protested going backpacking with the family is now the one who I go backpacking with now, and we have great trips together.
Miss Janet
12-05-2003, 20:20
I was involved with the Family From The North that hiked a good part of the AT southbound in 2000. That group had a lot of different things going on and I hope not to start a discussion about those things. I just want to talk about the kids and their hike.
I was looking forward to meeting them but I was very skeptical. I remember being very concerned about the children aged 2, 7, 9, 11, 12, ... were they unhappy, cold, abused and neglected? I was really worried that I would have to cause a scene when they made it into Erwin. I was wrong. I learned so much from those children. They were strong, they enjoyed the trail, they were very self reliant and THEY WERE DOING IT!! They took care of their own gear, they packed their own packs, they were responsible for making sure they had water, hiking poles, etc. The seven year old was the pace setter for the family. They were as much "thruhikers" as any of the adults out there. Sure, they had days that were hard... they were often tired and discouraged... just like everyone else that was hiking that winter. But it made me recognize a real shortcoming in my parenting. I never really challenged my children. I never believed that my kids could do certain difficult things so I didn't ask them to and I should have. They would have benefitted. They would have surprised me and themselves.
I was with them as they finished the hike at Springer the first of March 2001. They did 16 miles from Gooch Gap that last day and the smiles were a mile wide. They were so pleased with themselves and as emotional as any adult thruhiker I have ever seen at the end of the hike. The northbound thruhikers that were just starting that day were amazed! Some of them were starting with 60 pound packs and had huffed and puffed the Approach Trail and they couldn't believe what these kids had done. I was very proud of them.
You weren't long-winded at all. I hope you will add some more!
I think it is real cool that youve got such vivid memories. Thinking back to when I was 6, I am not sure if I remember much at all. What I do remember may be memories of memories.
Have you written down any recollections of your hike opver the past years? In letters or grade school projects or as an adult? If so, it would be really great if you could post some. I am sure I am not alone in saying I'd like to hear more.
If you haven't written anything, I hope you might use this web site as a good excuse to now. ;-)
Rick B
Footslogger
12-06-2003, 19:58
If they can carry their own stuff and keep up the pace ...I say "why not"??
In a way, I am so very jelous of you. I was about 6 when I first set foot on the AT, it was at Clingmans dome. I wanted to hike all of it then & there, by myself if I had to. This was a "few" years before you were born :cool: and I thought it only went to GA.
I read your story in BP, and your post here, sounds like you had a good time, even with all the falls. I would have said: Congatulations, had I been at the finish when you arrived, & I'm 20 years older than you are. Like I said, i'm jelous, and apreciate the desire to do such a thing, NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE.
I do have questions:
Have you done any more hiking on the AT since then?
Would you (have you) take YOUR 6 year old son? (I would have, if he wanted it.)
I know it's a bit late, but: Congratulations on a job well done! A job that many so called adults cannot complete.
Some day I shall do what you did, but I shall be 10X the age you were.
Doctari.
I do have questions:
Have you done any more hiking on the AT since then?
Would you (have you) take YOUR 6 year old son? (I would have, if he wanted it.)
I know it's a bit late, but: Congratulations on a job well done! A job that many so called adults cannot complete.
Some day I shall do what you did, but I shall be 10X the age you were.
Doctari.
Thanks for the congrats :D
To answer your question, I'd have to say yes, I would take my child on the AT, if I felt there were up to it. I don't have children now, but I would have to say I'd start them on small sections, to test the water. If they showed the desire, then I would let them go for it.
In my case, I could've always hopped a bus back to Rio Linda, CA if I decided that I didn't want to go on. I never opted for that, and I think it was because I was a whiner, not a quitter... :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, after the AT I only did a few sections of the PCT... Since then, my family pretty much bounced around too much to actually be able to afford another long hike. I figure now is a good time for me to give it another go. I own my own business, and have people who can keep it going while I'm away, not to mention the 25th anniversary will be in April 2005...
So HF here I come... :clap
PS...
You wouldn't happen to still have a copy of the Backpacker mag would you?
You weren't long-winded at all. I hope you will add some more!
Have you written down any recollections of your hike opver the past years? In letters or grade school projects or as an adult? If so, it would be really great if you could post some. I am sure I am not alone in saying I'd like to hear more.
If you haven't written anything, I hope you might use this web site as a good excuse to now. ;-)
Rick B
No, I haven't written anything really to speak of. I think I did back in grade school a couple of times, but that was about it.
Most of the time I have to convince people that I am Mike Cogswell. My stepdad Jeff adopted me and I took his last name. After my mom divorced Jeff she said I could go back to my birth name, so I'm a Williams once again.
It would be kind of hard to write a complete recollection of my trip on the trail, just because time buries the memories. My most vivid memories are the ones I've kept alive orally, the ones that I tell people when they ask. The others are still there somewhere, and they just need a trigger to set them up again. Just the other night while talking with some friends, I recalled seeing a couple of river otters while we were hiking. A short memory. but the image of it is clear.
Make that another memory, as typing that I recall the first water skin I lost. We were crossing a stream, I fell and it went meandering down with the swift current. I cried because it was my favorite thing to drink from. We never filtered our water either, it was always just taken from a spring or water source, i.e river stream, creek, or water running off the frozen snow when Mt. Washington heats up after being stuck down in town for 7 days waiting for the weather to get better...
I'm sure if I keep writing and reading around this site, I'll get more memories, and write 'em down here... :-?
How does everyone feel about people bringing their children on long distance hikes?
Since reading that, I've wondered what people thought about it and would like to give them an opportunity to hear it from the youngster who actually experienced the adventure and be able to tell the pros and cons for me personally. :-?
So please, post your comments or if you have questions regarding what it was like for a six year old, ask away... :D
Ohmigod... So. Mike. Dude. <searching for words> How does it feel to be an icon?
That picture of you: frost rimmed around the hood of the sleeping bag; morning sun low in your eyes; big, *****-eating grin on your cherubic face -- got planted in my mind way back when. I thought I was a ruff-tuff throughhiker (circa '79) till I saw that in the college magazine area... I was shattered.
... But in 1995, I looked that issue back up, and printed it from fiche, and thought to myself "If a young girl (age 5) and a young boy (you, age 6) can do it, with parents who lacked prior long-distance backpacking miles ("What a way to spend First Grade..."), how much better would it be to do a "family throughhike" with some *prior knowledge*, preparing us to arrive at Springer truly ready to go? Wow!"
A divorce derailed the planned Y2000 hike, but still, this sounds alot like what you were like:
http://www.newsushi.net/lt-journal4.html
I wuz behind them the whole way up that climb, not knowing when I was going to catch 'em -- they were excited that day, I'll tell ya...
Lots of stories been made with my kids and I between then and now, hopefully lots to go, but the questions.... ewwwww, the questions. I've called my kids to let them know they can ask you some questions. ... That whole "part of childhood gets lost..." issue, balanced against, as I've tried to describe it to my kids, "gifts that won't be unwrapped for many years..." (I'm very covetous of my kids' childhood -- it seems every institution/setting outside of home wants to suck boyhood right out of 'em..., so we talk about society's expectations regularly...) We'll be in touch...
Great to have you here! Yowie!
Sloetoe
max patch
12-09-2003, 10:19
How does everyone feel about people bringing their children on long distance hikes?
Since you asked....I'm not going to tell anyone how to raise their kids so my comments apply only to myself and to no one else. I'm a former thru-hiker and personally know the many benefits that one can derive from such a journey. However, having said that I think its an incredibly horrible idea to remove ones child from school to go on a 6 month or so hike. At an early age mastering reading, writing, and math skills is paramount to a childs future. Go on long hikes during the summer months if the kids enjoy it and have the physical stamina to hike long distances. Save the thru for later. The trail will still be there after high school or college.
Blue Jay
12-09-2003, 12:40
Must.....hold.....tongue......as.....promised..... .Theehhh.
To me theres a huge difference between exposing your kids at an early age to the wonders and beauty of the outdoors (day hikes, overnights, traveling, and maybe a weekend of low miles) and subjecting them to the physical exertions that are entailed in a thru-hike.
One should fully want to hike the whole trail by their own choice and desire. A thru-hike is definately not something someone else should decide for you. Takes too much energy, time, commitment, struggle, desire, effort.
Whether the children from the north or other kids enjoyed their hikes is not the question. The point it they didnt conscioustly (sp?) make a decision, in all likelyhood to want to thru-hike. It was just most convenient for their parents.
Ohmigod... So. Mike. Dude. <searching for words> How does it feel to be an icon?
I don't really think of myself an icon, I prefer to say I was fortunate to have an adventurous stepdad who was willing to take a chance on a young, whiny little city kid, and wound up giving me one of the greatest gifts I've ever received.
I think every parent should try and get their kids outdoors, if even for a day hike. O'course, I don't have much of a foot to stand on, not having a bambino myself. ;)
Personally, I see too many kids getting sucked in by the whole gaming industry, (i.e, Sony Playstation, Nintendo Gamecube etc),and TV. I know I can speak for myself and say it was the case, except back then it was Atari 2600s and Pac-Man. In fact, my mother was writing a letter and asked my stepdad how to spell relief. Being the ultra smart 3 yr old at that time I laughed at her mockingly and said "that's easy!" They were both a bit skeptical, so they called me on it.
"Relief is spelled R-O-L-A-I-D-S." I wastn't allowed to watch TV for years after that. In fact, the next time was when Reagan took over for Carter...
Lots of stories been made with my kids and I between then and now, hopefully lots to go, but the questions.... ewwwww, the questions. I've called my kids to let them know they can ask you some questions. ... That whole "part of childhood gets lost..." issue, balanced against, as I've tried to describe it to my kids, "gifts that won't be unwrapped for many years..." (I'm very covetous of my kids' childhood -- it seems every institution/setting outside of home wants to suck boyhood right out of 'em..., so we talk about society's expectations regularly...) We'll be in touch...
Great to have you here! Yowie!
Sloetoe
As far as any questions they might have, ask away, and I'll reply as best I can...
However, having said that I think its an incredibly horrible idea to remove ones child from school to go on a 6 month or so hike. At an early age mastering reading, writing, and math skills is paramount to a childs future.
I can agree with you there, to take a child out of school is the wrong thing to do. In my case, I had books sent to me with a different subject over the course of our hike. I believe it was called Calvert (sp?) School. A child could have been enrolled up until the 7th or 8th grade. Essentially it is the equivialent to home schooling.
I'm not sure if others have done the same for their children, but it does make an option available.
To me theres a huge difference between exposing your kids at an early age to the wonders and beauty of the outdoors (day hikes, overnights, traveling, and maybe a weekend of low miles) and subjecting them to the physical exertions that are entailed in a thru-hike.
One should fully want to hike the whole trail by their own choice and desire. A thru-hike is definately not something someone else should decide for you. Takes too much energy, time, commitment, struggle, desire, effort.
Whether the children from the north or other kids enjoyed their hikes is not the question. The point it they didnt conscioustly (sp?) make a decision, in all likelyhood to want to thru-hike. It was just most convenient for their parents.
Again I can only speak for my case, but I was given a choice. Both before I went to the trail, and during the hike. Granted, even if really did want to go home after the first couple of months, I probably wouldn't have been able to say so because of the fear of disappointing my family and myself (More so my family).
If a parent is forcing their child into the hike, then I'd have to agree with other posts that it is abusive to do so. The main thing to consider after the physical aspect I would have to say would be the psychological ramifications of such a journey. It was difficult to keep the mindset of a child knowing that you have to make this shelter/ town etc. by such and such a time. It may be too much responsibility for a child to honestly take on by his/her own free will simply because they don't really know better. Of course in argument of that, not all children are the same, maturity levels vary and that should be weighed by the parent prior to the onset of any major decision...
The Old Fhart
12-10-2003, 09:19
Mike, This is one subject I have mixed feelings on. As a side note, a few years ago when you were in a chat room asking for the article on your hike, I was the person who sent you the copy.
Years ago I took my kids hiking and we started out on mile long flat hikes. We went on longer and more strenuous hikes so they could get used to hiking and be comfortable with it until we could occasionally go on backpacks up to 4 days long. It took many of the shorter hikes until they found what gear they were comfortable with and what they would comfortably carry. As a result my pack was much heavier to make sure they didn’t have to carry as much. It was necessary that I let them set the pace and determine when and how long the breaks would be. There was also my wife, who didn’t hike much, who could evaluate their progress and see how they responded after each hike so I wasn’t the only, possibly biased, one checking on how they were doing. Over a three-year period they hiked all 48 of the New Hampshire 4000 footers, my daughter being one of the younger hikers to accomplish this feat. There were hikes where we had to turn back, not because I couldn’t do it, but because they weren’t up to the hike that day. Sometimes the reason was as simple as: “I don’t wanta!” I had to think twice about what I would say to them at this point and put myself in their boots. It was great that they had the experience to know that the hike wasn’t what they could do that day. Sometimes they would think of another way to do the hike that they liked better and that gave them a feeling of being in charge as well. Careful planning meant choosing good weather, staying at an A.M.C. hut (which they really liked), stops for ice cream on the way home, followed by an activity they picked the next weekend. After they finished they did get immense pleasure at the awards ceremony when my 11-year old son was called to picked up his award to the "oohs" of the rest of the crowd gathered there followed by more "oohs" when my 8-year old daughter got her award. Over the years they went on camping trips on their own and enjoyed tenting out but kids interests change so school and other activities replaced the hiking and I didn’t push then to continue.
That being said, I don’t think it is a good idea to do a thru hike with a young child. A child’s body is changing quite rapidly so good nutrition and proper rest is essential and neither is really possible on a long hike. Looking at the weather this year and all the rain I doubt that anyone could suggest that a child would enjoy hiking through weeks or months of rain, never having a chance to dry out. Just think of all the hardships and perils you went through on the trail and ask yourself if that would be suitable for a child. An adult could see the big picture and hopefully the overall good will outweigh the bad but 80-90% of potential thru hikers drop out so not even most adults find the trail easy or to their liking. A more difficult issue is whether a child can actually make an informed decision on whether they want to go a 6-8 month hike or not. A youngster’s grasp of reality isn’t the same as an adult’s and that’s why there is a legal age of consent for everything from drinking to getting married. As a parent we all make decisions for our children and hopefully they are based on what is good for the child and not to fulfill one of our own fantasies. Pushing your kids into organized sports or into the beauty pageant circuit are examples of borderline or outright abuse. A long hike also removes a child from their peer group so they are growing up in an adult’s world and not interacting with others their own age. Unfortunately they can’t be like Peter Pan and recapture their childhood. I did meet a large family on the trail in 1998 and I was impressed with how well organized they were and how well they adapted to life on the trail. A great deal of planning went into their trip and they also had a support team following them off trail just in case. I believe they were the exception and not typical of parent’s taking one child on the trail.
You could draw parallels between my hiking with my kids and Mike’s parents taking him on their A.T. thru hike. Obvious Mike has survived and is on Whiteblaze.net so he isn’t scarred for life but that may be just luck. I realize that there are elements in both situations you could, and probably should, question. I had to continually question myself as to whether I was doing something my kid were enjoying and would look back on later with a smile and say: “Yup, I did that!” I now look forward to taking my granddaughter on short hikes with her mother who will say to her: “I did this hike with grandpa when I was your age.”
Blue Jay
12-10-2003, 09:40
Great post Mr. Phart. Often people who comment on parenting have never been parents and may not even be far in age from children themselves. Kind of like blind people lecturing others on color. Hiking, even thruhiking with children is an individual decision, as you and others have stated. I do not worry about "home" schooling. Many of the people who have made a difference in this world, Edison, Einstein and many others never did well in school and in fact had their creativity damaged by it. Things you can learn on the Trail: creativity, independence, reading and writing, triumph over hardship. Things you can learn in school: how to be a corporate robot, how to process crack, to hate reading because they force you read Dickens and Melville. Nature and the Trail is by far a better environment for learning. By the time you get to be an adult the zombification may be permanent.
smokymtnsteve
12-10-2003, 10:05
BRAVO,oldphart.
After a thru hike, I think a lot of people aquire a certain kind of quite confidence that may not have been there previously. Or otherwise grow.
I am wondering if, looking back, you found that your hike helped build confidence or character or some other quality of your personality.
When I ask this, I am thinking more of the impact of the mountains and walking and accomplishment, rather than of any bonding, building or strains within your family.
Or is it different for a very young kid.
Rick B
As a side note, thanks for the article Old Phart, it was nice to see it again after so many years. Actually had a color copy sent to me from someone affiliated with BP at the time...
And as stated, great post.
I am wondering if, looking back, you found that your hike helped build confidence or character or some other quality of your personality.
When I ask this, I am thinking more of the impact of the mountains and walking and accomplishment, rather than of any bonding, building or strains within your family.
Or is it different for a very young kid.
Rick B
I see both good and bad. As far as building confidence and character, without a doubt it had a major impact. My attitude towards goals have been pretty much "there ain't nothin' I can't do" since that date.
Physically, I was an odd sight. Seeing a youngster who's barely 4' tall with thigh muscles almost as wide as his torso has to make one wonder.
On the bad side, I'd say that I lost any real association with child like activities, and became more of a loner unless there were older people to be around. This is not saying that the thru hike is totally responsible for that, but was more of the catalyst that sent me in that direction.
As far as now, the AT remains one of the few "Happy Places" I can go to in my mind. I learned alot about nature (and how to spell Appalachian) and the feeling of being one with nature, which is something I wouldn't have experienced had I not gone. I met some pretty decent people, who were always more than willing to share, either knowledge or a simple folk song. Ever since, I've wanted to go back to the AT, or other long trail and be able to reembrace those feelings again, but have been unable to due to monetary or some other god forsaken reason. It's unrealistic, but I could probably be content to play Forest Gump in a sense and just walk up the trail and back down until I find whatever I'm looking for.
On a lighter side, while I was in the Marine Corps, I could always say that I humped more miles than my unit combined... :D
I'd really like to hear more from the "Family from the North" (or any other child who has done long distance hiking) and see how the children feel having hiked the AT.
Excellent post Mr. Fhart. You inspire guys with young kids to get'm out there in the woods and learning.
I would encourage others with great experience sharing the outdoors with their kids to share the info or experience with us.
This board helped me with some tips that made the day trips I took with my two oldest sons this summer great experiences.
I would encourage others with great experience sharing the outdoors with their kids to share the info or experience with us.
I feel bad that I've been "off" for a week, and will be gone for 2+ weeks hence. But this whole subject is actually so [word-searching] *vital* to me that it's hard to just pop off a reply. Lots of paternal juices flowing. I will do my best to get back to this thread after I return.
Sloetoe
(But here's a <cue loudspeaker voice> DEEP THOUGHT to consider in the meantime:
Adults hike to reconnect with "the here and now", and to refocus away from the laser-point on 'planning for the future' and considering/honoring/fearing the past.
Children, on the other hand, are *always* in the here and now, and have little (*little*) conception of future or past. For them, a mud puddle and a pile of rocks in the parking lot is as entertaining as the Grand Canyon a hundred feet away.
Result? You can't look for kids to enjoy a hike in the woods as something so removed from the civilization *you* are so ingrained with, as they are not that ingrained!
1) Agree or disagree...?
2) Then why? (Why take a child [hereby defined as "age 13 or less"] on a long distance hike?)